The Mail Bag
Right Back vs Right Wing-Back
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A lot of people have been rallying thier support for Coleman recently... This has got me wondering about the bigger picture.
Right now, Everton play with Pienaar as a left winger and Baines as a left wing-back. And normally in a 4-5-1 that utilises a defensive midfielder (Heitinga/Fellani) for cover. But on the right we have a right back and right midfielder. Our lack of width on the right side effectively makes us a one-sided team.
Neville and Hibbert are both right backs, and have come in for lot of stick for not being right wing-backs. Therefore it becomes clear that the right side of the field is where most people believe we need to start improving.
A lot of people have also been talking about winning silverware. I believe that won't happen until we bring more balance into the squad.
Which brings me back to Coleman. He is quite clearly a right wing-back. Were we to get a right winger, would he be good enough to do the job at a consistently high standard? And do we need a right wing back rather than a right back, working with a right-winger?
Dave Smith, Posted 11/04/2010 at 15:18:34
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What I would've liked to have seen is Donovan paired with Coleman, who because of his work ethic would run all day and track back, then Coleman could bomb forward without worrying about the gap he left.
Wing backs?
My god, Mr Wilson will be fuming!
My god, Mr Wilson will be fuming!
What does Donavon have that is so difficult to replace? It is certainly not size or stature or fantastic ball skills or an extraordinary powerful shot. His heading ability is average and though reasonably quick I have seen a lot who are quicker.
Where he seems to have it over potential contenders is an economy of movement. That means getting to where you need to be on time. The way he does his thing is straight forward and fairly basic..
He is probably the equal of Cahill in determination and aggression but most of all Landon has a certain kind of pesence and that is not learned in academies. You have it or you don't.
To misquote an old saying, Some struggle their entire lives to achieve it while others are born with it.
Where he seems to have it over potential contenders is an economy of movement. That means getting to where you need to be on time. The way he does his thing is straight forward and fairly basic..
He is probably the equal of Cahill in determination and aggression but most of all Landon has a certain kind of pesence and that is not learned in academies. You have it or you don't.
To misquote an old saying, Some struggle their entire lives to achieve it while others are born with it.
Dick
I agree with your comments about Donovan's presence and would add that he has a great sense of belief in his ability. He believes that he is a big player as exampled by his standing up to Beckham whilst all around him were falling over themselves to fall at Beckhams feet and he shows the same attitude in his approach to the game. He sees himself as a genuine world star (much like Cahill does) and we were lucky to have him. He brings a real winning attitude and EFC can only benefit from having such a player around.
I agree with your comments about Donovan's presence and would add that he has a great sense of belief in his ability. He believes that he is a big player as exampled by his standing up to Beckham whilst all around him were falling over themselves to fall at Beckhams feet and he shows the same attitude in his approach to the game. He sees himself as a genuine world star (much like Cahill does) and we were lucky to have him. He brings a real winning attitude and EFC can only benefit from having such a player around.
Gavin, I agree with you. I think keeping Hibbert as Coleman progresses next season would be a good move. That leads me to wonder where Neville fits in though?
It's very obvious we need a right winger. The question is, is it Donovan, and at what price? At his age we don't want to be paying over the odds.
It's very obvious we need a right winger. The question is, is it Donovan, and at what price? At his age we don't want to be paying over the odds.
Looking at the other clubs, how many teams actually play with 2 wing backs on either side? It seems the general consensus is to play 1 wing back, and 1 conventional defender on the other side.
Coleman is no doubt one for the future, but is obviously not ready for the top flight just yet. Donovan is not really the answer for me, I would prefer to see someone younger in line with the rest of the squad.
Can Bily become more of a wide player? He needs to work on his pace and agility if he is to fill that birth. He doesn't seem to be reactive or mobile enough yet. But we have not seen the best of him, so its hard to call. In the ideal world, we would buy a top class striker and a right sided player. But as we are not blessed with riches, which is more important? Nobody can say we are not creating enough chances lately, but there is certainly a case for our inability to put them away.
Coleman is no doubt one for the future, but is obviously not ready for the top flight just yet. Donovan is not really the answer for me, I would prefer to see someone younger in line with the rest of the squad.
Can Bily become more of a wide player? He needs to work on his pace and agility if he is to fill that birth. He doesn't seem to be reactive or mobile enough yet. But we have not seen the best of him, so its hard to call. In the ideal world, we would buy a top class striker and a right sided player. But as we are not blessed with riches, which is more important? Nobody can say we are not creating enough chances lately, but there is certainly a case for our inability to put them away.
A lot of teams have one full back who attacks more than the other. Evra, Cole, Dani Alves, all often have more conservative full backs on the opposite side (Gary Neville/Wes Brown, Ivanovic, Abidal) although this is by no means a hard and fast rule.
What you do need is a midfielder on that defensive full-back's side who likes to use the width. Our left side combination, a right footed midfielder who tucks/cuts inside and an overlapping full-back who can use the space left behind is a good one. Ashley Cole has been far more effective in his career behind Pires (Arsenal), Joe Cole (England) and in a Chelsea formation without a left sided midfielder. This is why Bily and Baines aren't as good a partnership as Baines/Pienaar, as Bily isn't looking to come inside from the left and leave Baines that space.
This doesn't mean you have to have the same thing on the other side, a right footed right winger, who is backed up by a decent defensive right back who can play one-two's or offer an outlet, but not necessarily bomb past can work just as well (it made Earl Barrett look half decent for a while when Kanchelskis was here), and I would argue that a well balanced team would have the two different types of combination, one on either side.
What we've got with Bily on the right suits neither, as he's looking to come inside on his left foot, leaving space wide, but Neville doesn't particularly want to charge forward into it, and even when he does his crossing is poor. This also leaves a lot of our midfielders trying to occupy the same space in the middle, and its easier for opposition defences to clog it up. This has also often been the problem with Osman playing that side, as he also looks to come narrow.
So to sum up, I can be happy with a right back, such as Neville or Hibbert, who doesn't offer a right lot going forward (although those two are particularly bad at the attacking side of the game) as long as you can keep their job simple, and not expect too much of them in that department, by having a real wide man causing a threat on that side.
What you do need is a midfielder on that defensive full-back's side who likes to use the width. Our left side combination, a right footed midfielder who tucks/cuts inside and an overlapping full-back who can use the space left behind is a good one. Ashley Cole has been far more effective in his career behind Pires (Arsenal), Joe Cole (England) and in a Chelsea formation without a left sided midfielder. This is why Bily and Baines aren't as good a partnership as Baines/Pienaar, as Bily isn't looking to come inside from the left and leave Baines that space.
This doesn't mean you have to have the same thing on the other side, a right footed right winger, who is backed up by a decent defensive right back who can play one-two's or offer an outlet, but not necessarily bomb past can work just as well (it made Earl Barrett look half decent for a while when Kanchelskis was here), and I would argue that a well balanced team would have the two different types of combination, one on either side.
What we've got with Bily on the right suits neither, as he's looking to come inside on his left foot, leaving space wide, but Neville doesn't particularly want to charge forward into it, and even when he does his crossing is poor. This also leaves a lot of our midfielders trying to occupy the same space in the middle, and its easier for opposition defences to clog it up. This has also often been the problem with Osman playing that side, as he also looks to come narrow.
So to sum up, I can be happy with a right back, such as Neville or Hibbert, who doesn't offer a right lot going forward (although those two are particularly bad at the attacking side of the game) as long as you can keep their job simple, and not expect too much of them in that department, by having a real wide man causing a threat on that side.
It is a tricky one, but I think our right backs are sorted. I expect Neville will carry on playing there until he either retires or his contract runs out, and hopefully Coleman will be better, more experienced to fill his shoes with Hibbert as a constant back up through out.
The right winger situation though we do need to improve on. When Donovan was playing, it does show we've been missing that threat and pace, it also makes the full back a better player.
Hopefully Moyes will have something planned.
The right winger situation though we do need to improve on. When Donovan was playing, it does show we've been missing that threat and pace, it also makes the full back a better player.
Hopefully Moyes will have something planned.
Some comments regarding Donovan:
1. Good to see some here pick up on his presence. Being asked to shoulder the load one way or the other for the last 10 years will bring it out in one or break him. Landon's mainly been up to it.
2. Yes, he's 28, but 28 going on 22. His year-round conditioning program is off the charts. He'll keep his pacey legs under him for at least 4 more years, easy. Let's have him doing it as a Toffee.
3. I still believe a deal can be made for Donovan that doesn't have to break the bank. Remember the guy who owns Galaxy, has major holding in England. And he DOES NOT need the money. Yes, a transfer fee would be required. MLS has to get something for him.
But there's quite a bit of pressure, too, for Americans (Galaxy fans or no) wanting to see our top player excelling on a top side, which means EPL and EFC. I just think it's a doable deal beyond the normal "Here's $X-amount. Good, here's the player" transaction.
Balance out the right with the left, our youngsters one year better, and (God, please!) general good health for the squad this coming season, and we're right in the thick of things for title contention.
1. Good to see some here pick up on his presence. Being asked to shoulder the load one way or the other for the last 10 years will bring it out in one or break him. Landon's mainly been up to it.
2. Yes, he's 28, but 28 going on 22. His year-round conditioning program is off the charts. He'll keep his pacey legs under him for at least 4 more years, easy. Let's have him doing it as a Toffee.
3. I still believe a deal can be made for Donovan that doesn't have to break the bank. Remember the guy who owns Galaxy, has major holding in England. And he DOES NOT need the money. Yes, a transfer fee would be required. MLS has to get something for him.
But there's quite a bit of pressure, too, for Americans (Galaxy fans or no) wanting to see our top player excelling on a top side, which means EPL and EFC. I just think it's a doable deal beyond the normal "Here's $X-amount. Good, here's the player" transaction.
Balance out the right with the left, our youngsters one year better, and (God, please!) general good health for the squad this coming season, and we're right in the thick of things for title contention.
David H - don't get me wrong , I'm very pro Donovan and Coleman, but not together on the same wing. What Coleman could do with is someone like Bily in front of him - control, vision and the skill to pass accurately with either foot. Or of course, use the Coleman overlap to cut inside and use his weapon of choice, the left foot, on target. And he doesn't need raw pace to do that.
Should Landon ever return to his 'Everton Home' he could play a role much as Robben seems to for Bayernh M - popping up anywhere to inflict damage.
But I like Dave's original question - remember? The wing-back one. If we play 4-5-1, or even 4-6-0, what is the role of the outside pair in a back four? Overlapping the wide midfielders?
Well, yes, because if they're doing their job correctly, they won't be stuck out there doing little else.
So, for me, a great Leighton Baines admirer, wing-backs it is, on both flanks. And lets face it, for all their very admirable qualities, that is why Hibbo and Pip come in for the (only) stick they get, that ability to get forward to find a blue shirt rather than stick a hopeful deep 'cross' onto the head of a defence centre back.
Should Landon ever return to his 'Everton Home' he could play a role much as Robben seems to for Bayernh M - popping up anywhere to inflict damage.
But I like Dave's original question - remember? The wing-back one. If we play 4-5-1, or even 4-6-0, what is the role of the outside pair in a back four? Overlapping the wide midfielders?
Well, yes, because if they're doing their job correctly, they won't be stuck out there doing little else.
So, for me, a great Leighton Baines admirer, wing-backs it is, on both flanks. And lets face it, for all their very admirable qualities, that is why Hibbo and Pip come in for the (only) stick they get, that ability to get forward to find a blue shirt rather than stick a hopeful deep 'cross' onto the head of a defence centre back.
Keith G I think the problem with pairing Bily with Coleman is that if Coleman's up the field and loses possession, then a midfielder will have to bust a gut to close down the space, and from what I’ve seen of Bily, great potential but certainly lacks work ethic. What I like about Donovan was that although he isn’t the most skilful and he doesn’t do mazy runs but he’s such an intelligent player and on the evidence of the loan spell invariably made the right choice, never seemed to panic and give possession away cheaply and possessed an almost Beckham-like ability to find space. With them on the right and Baines/Peanuts on the left, and Fellani/Arteta in the centre could we be contenders next season, or maybe I’m just as delusional as the average Newcastle United fan.
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1 Posted 12/04/2010 at 08:44:15
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I've said I'm not impressed by Coleman's defensive skills but neither am I at Baines at times but I think he offers a breath of fresh air we just don't get with Hibbert or Neville. I think Hibbert or Coleman with a decent winger in front of them would shine but Coleman needs to up his game defensively.