The Mail Bag
Big Club Bias
Comments (49)
Whilst watching the Portsmouth/Spurs FA Cup Semi-FInal, I caught a reference to the Chelsea/Villa semi-final which I previously hadn't seen. Why the hell wasn't Terry sent off for that tackle on Milner? And surely Villa should have had a penalty??!! Milner was lucky to walk away from that challenge unscathed.
I don't deny that Chelsea are probably the best team in the Premier League, but surely officials should be prepared to show a bit more courage when having to make those big decisions? They "bottle" it too many times when big names are involved for it not to be a coincidence, but it's part of what they are paid for.
Our stone bonking penalty that wasn't awarded when we played Liverpool the other season (Carragher's foul) is a case in point. And what if we were a team on the brink of relegation needing 3 points??
Howard Webb hasn't had a great season, and he is often held up as a top referee. Im not going to raise the issue of replays being accepted, because in the incidents I have seen, there simply was no need for a replay, a penalty and booking should have been given, no ifs or buts.
Perhaps if other managers, ours included, spoke as unequivocally as O'Neill did, the powers that be just might instruct officials to come down just as hard on the Terrys and Gerrards of this world as the other "lesser" lights.
Let's wish Villa luck after we have beaten them on Wednesday when Saha wins us a certain penalty??!!
John Brennan, Posted 11/04/2010 at 19:46:25
Comments
Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer
Please let's ditch this "big club bias" claim, it's nonsense. Did you see how offside Drogba was a OT last week, or the "penalty" that wasn't awarded against Garry Neville?
Chelsea have been denied at least a couple of Champions League victories by poor refereeing decisions (not to mention conceding a goal that never was at Anfield).
We are all "victims" of poor refereeing decisions, even the big guys.
As far as the assault on Milner goes, funny how the post reaction hasn't included the old bullshit "the FA will review the footage and consider if any further action is necessary", again how many officials saw it?
We tend to forget the ones that go in our favour.
I think we should get some in from the Scottish League, as they play the game the way it used to be, a manly sport where hard tackles were applauded not booked.
No offence (and I agree, obviously, it was a pen), but that game was 20 October 2007... 2007! We're in 2010 now, I think it's time for some "closure" on that, John.
I think a major problem (even if it's only one of perception) is the fact that the so-called "top" refs officiate the big teams on a more regular basis. Accordingly, they have closer relationships with players such as Terry, Gerrard, Rooney etc because they ref their games all the time.
I don't know this for a fact, but if I was a ref on, say £60k a year, who obviously loves footy, I'd be chuffed if the England captain before a game came over and said "Hi, how are the kids" or something. So, basically, they have a chance to butter the refs up and maybe this explains their apparently preferential treatment.
In other words, I don't think the refs mean to cheat, I just think they might be tempted to give players they ref often more benefit of the doubt. And, because of the effect this has, it's just as bad ultimately.
Webb completely bottled it. For him, I feel it was too soon into the game, and so he let Chelsea off the hook. I wonder if the decision would've gone Villa's way though? He seems a bit hesitant to award pens at the moment, as we found to our cost aganst the Hammers.
But it was Terry's challenge that really rankled me. If Milner's studs had got stuck in the ground, the injury would of been hideous. Does this utter motherfucker get away with everything? It seems so. His misses is back with him despite utter humiliaition. And now the refs are condoning acts of brutality on the pitch!!
One rule for England first eleven players and another for all else.
Another unfounded conspiracy theory.
Webb gave him a yellow, which means a) that he saw it b) that he recognised it as a foul and c) deemed it bad enough to issue a card.
IMO - the reason it was yellow and not red was simply down to Webb weighing up the possible implications of sending Terry off for the challenge and bottled it for the half-way house of yellow.
If it'd been Fellaini, he'd be off in a shot.
I genuinely believe that Man Utd / Arsenal / Chelsea and Liverpool are systematically drilled on how to hound and harrass referees to the extent where they just can't be arsed with it anymore. Top that with the way the managers react if a decision doesn't go their way (Ferguson should be put up in front of a tribunal for God's sake) then no wonder their natural inclination becomes one of letting it go.
I don't think they do it because they want to see the big boys win, I just think they can do without the aggravation — why else do so many decisons go for the home team in a game? The path of least resistance — and the big clubs and their big name players are no different.
How much does Gerrard get away with? V-sign at ref and elbowing off the ball (not to mention assaulting DJs).
Eg, Man Utd v Burnley, you give Man Utd a dodgy penalty, everyone can say 'oh well, Man Utd would have won anyway, they're better' and so you've had less impact. Give Burnley the dodgy decision and you've caused a major shock result with your mistake and everyone will point that out: 'Burnley never would have won if it wasn't for that idiot's decision'
Its basic psychology really. We actually started to benefit from it for a while last season.
However, Webb has no excuse for not sending off John Terry, especially if you compare it to Karl Henry's sending off at the Emirates last week.
Conclusive proof that their is no evil little plot dreamed up by saddos who think they have bogeymen under their beds, just basic fuck-ups made by people who are clearly not up to the job.
"England player bias" — Lol!
That fine old warhorse of psychology suggests itself here, the oft misused 'self-fulfilling prophecy', or, give a dog a bad name and hang him as they used to put it.
Yes — Fellaini used to get booked for being Belgian, or something.
Yes, on the other hand thugs and cheats who might also be 'national treasures' — fill in your own choice of names if you wish — get away with GBH and diving (or is it the other way round?).
There are no instructions from the FA written in invisible ink nor clandestine meetings in motorway services. No 'conspiracy', but normal life with all its inequalities and injustices. And as one of the Marx brothers put it: 'The point is to change it'.
The best example was Alan Shearer. Duncan Ferguson would have doubled his red card tally if he had put himself about like Shearer did, but Shearer hardly even got booked. I remember distinctly one blatant elbow to Weir's throat on the half-way line in the same game that Cahill and Babayaro got sent off for a minor tussle. If it was Ferguson he would have been off, no doubt; as usual Shearer got off with it.
Another good example is that gobshite snide on the other side of Stanley Park.
Yes Keith and Nick, the England player you are referring to gets away with both GBH and diving (and brandishing imaginary cards at referees- something which annoys the hell out of me).
Refs could be pre-disposed to allowing the big teams to get away with murder... or maybe we're pre-disposed to searching for imbalances as a natural checking mechanism that allows us to disregard our own efficiencies to a certain extent...
A case in point... The merseyside derby. All the talk on here was about Liverpool kicking us off the park — and being allowed to get away with it by the ref... An opinion lacking any semblance of reality — as we kicked them about the pitch as well...and got away with various bad tackles.
Conclusion: Referees seldom get everything right.
LFC are the beginning and the end of all our problems.
Brian
You leave the voices in my head out of this, perhaps if you ever get any in yours they may give you an idea all of your own Lol
BTW Bri
Think we`ll qualify for Europe without Hibbo?
The amount of stick that refs get, I think they're entitled to a decent wage.
We have to get this chip off our shoulders, because there have been numerous whinges on here when nothing goes our way, to justify the 'Bittler Blues' Tag, it's like the labour party when they first came to power, with the 'Whiter than White' crap, we seem to think we are just that.
Gerrard twats a lad, and is a scum, thug etc, Pienaar gets done for drink driving, and all we hear is "He made a mistake", "Give him a break", "Forgive". Why is one a scum, but the other just made a mistake?
I was under the impression that the elite group of referees were required to ref each team at least 8 times per season. Possibly I have misinterpreted the requirements, but it seems very strange to me that he has been kept away from Everton games and Liverpool games.
I remember Mr Moyes was going to be done by the FA after remarks he made about Clattenburg after the game and he was up for it, ready to answer the charge, then everything was dropped — strange... and we have not seen this particular ref since.
Liverpool's attitude during the game was to target Everton's two best players, one got carried off, the other sent off. Mr Gerrard assaulted someone in a bar, caught on cctv and walked free, Pienaar was found guilty.
I saw Mr Gerrard tell a ref to fuck off and use a V-sign, no action; the next week physical assault on Brown, no action; week-in, week-out, throwing himself all over the place, no action — even Ferguson commented on the favouritism shown to Gerrard.
It would not surprise me in the least if Liverpool win the Europa League that they will be allowed into the CL.
You prove my point. Wo is me.
The surprise is he doesn't get sent off every derby.
Ciarán - you stuck an undistributed middle in there, hence the false conclusion. Check, me old mate.
Now, 'undistributed middle'. Don't you think we should be using that glorious term instead of 'hoofball'?
One logical explanation for the conduct of the FA following the charge against Moyes being dropped in the aftermath of the Clattenburg derby was that 'friend of the famous' possible dodgy financial dealer (why he was suspended on suspicion I read) Mr C said something to our manager in conversation after the game — and, very importantly — was witnessed by an unimpeachable independent person or two (police officers, for example?)
The day he walks into Goodison again, the police horses will be on the pitch.
Thinking of 1926 (or close), and the 'white horse' Final, perhaps we should have a club policy of making the final at all costs so he will never get to ref one.
Do us good — him bad. Isn't that called win-win?
I don't consider what-aboutery as a valid form of justification.
Fools mate.
Keith, I never claim my point solved the mystery... merely that it was a 'case in point'.
Rematch?
I know it's cheating. You know it's cheating. My brother, a red, with slight embarrassment knows it's cheating. The refs know it's cheating... and probably not even that deep down, Gerrard know's it's cheating.
So why does he rarely, if ever, get booked for it?
Probably because he does it so well; probably because the refs hold an element of bias towards him.
Get foreign refs in who haven't built up first name term buddy clubs to stick it right up them. That's what I say.
I really enjoy watching the Six Nations matches and I see a quite different attitude towards the match officials. Even when the players disagree with a decision, there is very little if indeed any back chat. But there is also a difference in the attitude of the Referees, they use the Captains to get across any points they want to make. Indeed, if a player has been out of order, the Referee in a Rugby match will ask the Captain to have a word with his player, rather than issue a yellow card. This is in marked contrast to Football Referees who issue cards very often in the first instance of an offence and seldom if at all engage in discussion about any decisions. In Rugby the players respect the match officials and match officials respect the players. If only that was the case in football.
I would like to see the Football authorities take a close look at how Rugby — in both codes — keeps its house in order. I know that there are marked differences, in a Six Nations match there are more times when play can be stopped — penalties, conversions etc. However, I think that there are things that Football could adopt and benefit from. The use of the Captains is one — rather than have a cluster of players surround a Referee, wouldn't it be better if a more civilised approach from the team Captain was to be the norm? And sin bins rather than a flurry of yellow/red cards. Far better I think to be a man down for say 15 minutes — and the offender have a chance to cool down — than for a match to be ruined as a spectatcle because of one rash action.
If a player harangues the ref, he should be booked, sent off if he carries on. Anyone touching a ref should face a very lengthy ban. In the ref's course I attended (honest!), we were told that this would result in a ban 'sine die'. Permanent.
But the sweet FA would never support such actions. Their house is definitely out of order.
ps - Thinking about bans, I have never understood why a pain-killing injection isn't classified as a performance-enhancing substance. Bet you he can run faster with it than without it.
Ciarán - an old pal of mine is a chess master and would be very quick to spot that I am way out of my depth so may we please end this metaphor (or is it analogy) pronto?
I think that when I took a course in logic (honest!) many years back, that particular logical fallacy was called an 'unconnected middle'. I hope I never have to use it, but dropping 'undistributed middle' into a response to a Ken Buckley report or similar in the future seems quite inviting.
Referees are fitter, faster, younger and have more knowledge of the rules of the game than when I first started watching football all those years ago. What has changed is the numerous cameras around the pitch providing previously unseen angles for every referees or assistants decision or non-decision.
I have every sympathy for the honest refs who make an honest error and are then treated as criminals. The Andy Grays of this world would do better to focus on the out-and-out cheating perpetrated by the like of Gerrard, Torres, Drogba, etc than the refs who are being conned by them.
The number of times you see a ref pilloried for making a right decision (because the commentators don't understand the rules) is amazing. Bring in video replays to assist refs — not to attack them. Shit happens!
No we won't qualify for Europe now. The shambles at the start of the season put pay to that. Now we have most of our best players back, we've only lost twice in the last 20 games.
Now, to test your sanity, here's a couple of questions for you seeing how you're so obsessed with Hibbert. See if you can answer them directly without doing any of your famous rambling or talking about the past:-
1) Would we have qualified for Europe this season if Hibbert was in the side?
2) Would we have a better record than only 2 defeats in our last 20 if Hibbert was in the side?
They're hardly the same thing. Also, Pienaar wil rightly be punished for his actions. Was Gerrard?
Fact is when Hibbo`s there we always qualify, when he isnt . . .we dont
Add Your Comments
In order to post a comment to the MailBag, you need to be logged in as a registered user of the site.
Or Sign up as a ToffeeWeb Member — it's free, takes just a few minutes and will allow you to post your comments on articles and MailBag submissions across the site.


1 Posted 12/04/2010 at 06:38:00
Report abuse