The Mail Bag
Three Draws and 8th place it is
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It's time to accept 8th place. Injuries, Lescott, and at times a lack of a cutting edge have led us here. And honestly, now that we are here I feel like I'm fine with it. What has the Europa League really done for us? Tired our players... given us European experience? It just seems like it's proved to be another competition we don't have the stones to advance in.
Obviously people are looking back and saying... we'd be in 6th now if we'd have won these past three games. And we would, but that's over now. This season is over. We are very close to being a great squad. But we are missing a couple pieces.
This summer, as always, will be crucial. If Moyes messes it up, 3 seasons in a row, it's time for a change. Either from Bill, or from Moyes, or both. They need to have a good pre-season, keep their players healthy, and for God's sake start the season right.
Until then I'm going to try to not think about Everton as much as I do every day. I'm going to enjoy the World Cup and tune out all the drama if I can. I'll fail... but dammit I am going to try.
Joey Brown, Posted 14/04/2010 at 22:54:30
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Joey,if we are not interested in the Europa league then what is it all about? Are you saying you wouldn't like us to be Fulham now? We must strive in every competition.
Andy is spot on we do need to strive for any or all competitions we enter, i have no time for this "better we dont qualify this year" rubbish. The fact of the matter is we wont be in Europe next season and the only consolation is it MAY help us cope with the rigours of the domestic season, but that is a SMALL consolation and given the choice i would take the Europa Spot any day of the week.
If we cant get used to coping with the Europa Cup on a regular season after season basis how on earth are we going to cope with the Champions League??
P.S. Cahill awesome against Villa and that puts him on 9 goals for the season which stacks up against any of his other seasons with us. So much the theory his goals are drying up and he is past it which has been a consistent thread on some of the posts recently.
Well, we're a hard team to beat. Which makes it impossible to sneak up on anyone anymore. These draws do suck. Thinking EPL should go to NHL rules. In pro hockey in the States, both teams get 1-point in a tie. Then they have the shoot-out to determine who gets 3 points. The 1-point each is already decided and done understand. Shoot-out same as in soccer 5 against the Goalie.
God knows, FIFA rejects having cameras to determine if the ball went over the goal line, so shoot-outs are likely sacriligious. Except it works. And fans go nuts.
Anyway, Get everyone healed, have a good pre-season, bring back Donovan and the Yak attack. We're in the hunt for the Silverware. Yes, we are THAT good. Frustrating now for sure. Frustrating being so close. Let's finish strong.
Next season? Can't wait. Silverware, I tell you. Silverware!!!
Up the Blues.
God knows, FIFA rejects having cameras to determine if the ball went over the goal line, so shoot-outs are likely sacriligious. Except it works. And fans go nuts.
Anyway, Get everyone healed, have a good pre-season, bring back Donovan and the Yak attack. We're in the hunt for the Silverware. Yes, we are THAT good. Frustrating now for sure. Frustrating being so close. Let's finish strong.
Next season? Can't wait. Silverware, I tell you. Silverware!!!
Up the Blues.
Good point on the overtime idea, James. I think it should be an overtime period, though. I would be for 15 minute overtime period and if no one can score than it ends in a tie. Each team gets a point, if someone wins, they get 2. I don't think penalty shoot out is a fair way to end a game. In a shoot out it comes down to luck more so than skill.
Nothing wrong with the concept of a draw. Sometimes it can be great to watch an inferior team stop a supposedly superior team. Its part of the game. Absolutely no need to have overtime in a league format.
I'm not against draws, I just want to see the team that plays better win. I think a 15 minute golden goal overtime before calling it a draw would do that. Just a thought though, I don't feel too strongly about it.
I agree that it could benefit us to have a season off from Europe.
With such a small squad it would be demanding on our players, particularly as we have so many recovering from serious injuries.
We could focus on the league and the two cup competitions. That would keep us busy if we could be successful.
Also, we might have a better chance of beating the Reds.
That would be so satisfying in itself.
With such a small squad it would be demanding on our players, particularly as we have so many recovering from serious injuries.
We could focus on the league and the two cup competitions. That would keep us busy if we could be successful.
Also, we might have a better chance of beating the Reds.
That would be so satisfying in itself.
So, we want a season without the Europa League to focus on the leageu to do what ... make sure we qualify for Europe?
We can also focus all we want on cup competitions but that depends mostly on the luck of the draw. And excactly what competitions are we on about? The League Cup, I though nobody cared.
I love these trips to Europa, it is good for Everton Football Club and what is positive about not qualifying for it because we simply failed to get the right results this time around?
So much potential we all claim, yet not even good enough to get 7th in the PL.
Our problem? See last night, on 3 or 4 occasions we broke and could have scored if players had made the right decision ... they didn't.
Overall a very good performance. Piennaar was amazing again, what energy. He, and Osman too, made us play.
We can also focus all we want on cup competitions but that depends mostly on the luck of the draw. And excactly what competitions are we on about? The League Cup, I though nobody cared.
I love these trips to Europa, it is good for Everton Football Club and what is positive about not qualifying for it because we simply failed to get the right results this time around?
So much potential we all claim, yet not even good enough to get 7th in the PL.
Our problem? See last night, on 3 or 4 occasions we broke and could have scored if players had made the right decision ... they didn't.
Overall a very good performance. Piennaar was amazing again, what energy. He, and Osman too, made us play.
Gutted we never won but made up we may not get in the Europa League. I'm fed up of Sunday games and travelling around Europe watching the blues when we get the piss taken out of us especially this year in Lisbon twice! The first one when 7,000 fans made the effort and we had 15 players out, it was a total embarrassment and a waste of my money and holidays off work.
Please give us a year off to consolidate and get the team injury free if possible and give me and other fans time to get the appetite back for the competition. I understand the problem with attracting new players but my main concern would be to keep what we have first then see who we can add thereafter. COYB (But please a year off Europa!)
Lee Kidd - you're spot on.
Funny how we didn't sign any players until Lescott was sold, which was after the season had started, yet some people still think the whole summer shambles was down to Moyes.
It was Kenrwright fucking up yet again and showing fuck all ambition.
Funny how we didn't sign any players until Lescott was sold, which was after the season had started, yet some people still think the whole summer shambles was down to Moyes.
It was Kenrwright fucking up yet again and showing fuck all ambition.
Alan.. yes this year in Europa was poor.. but the year before was an amzaing European run with arguably the best Everton performance and crowd participation seen in Goodison for 10 years in the 2-0 win over Fiorentina... and on route beating the eventual winners home and away..
I wouldn't lose that for the world...
Rob your point is right and I never understand why more people don't see it... if we are saying a year out of Europa allows us a real crack at CL .. well then I might start to listen...
I wouldn't lose that for the world...
Rob your point is right and I never understand why more people don't see it... if we are saying a year out of Europa allows us a real crack at CL .. well then I might start to listen...
Agreed that 8th is pretty much nailed on now. Shame.
I do agree that not playing in the Europa league next year might be a bit of a blessing in disguise. I think our squad, if/when all are fit, might stand a serious shot at 4th next year (especially if we add a quick winger), and not having the Europa distraction will certainly help us in that sense.
It's hard to be that cold and calculating though. I would have liked to see us in Europe next year, despite the potential for damage to our CL ambitions, and the last three results have been pretty disappointing.
There might also be a danger that since we're not in the Europa league, some of our players might be tempted to leave to seek European football (Pienaar and maybe Fella probably the most likely candidates). It will also make attracting players that much harder, since it seems we can't afford Donovan.
I do agree that not playing in the Europa league next year might be a bit of a blessing in disguise. I think our squad, if/when all are fit, might stand a serious shot at 4th next year (especially if we add a quick winger), and not having the Europa distraction will certainly help us in that sense.
It's hard to be that cold and calculating though. I would have liked to see us in Europe next year, despite the potential for damage to our CL ambitions, and the last three results have been pretty disappointing.
There might also be a danger that since we're not in the Europa league, some of our players might be tempted to leave to seek European football (Pienaar and maybe Fella probably the most likely candidates). It will also make attracting players that much harder, since it seems we can't afford Donovan.
Although the last 3 results have been a bit dissapointing, look at the bigger picture, we have only lost 2 premier league games in the last 19 (thats half a season). so maybe next yaer only 4 defeats (possilby) we could be looking at premier league champions not just 4th spot!!!! Perhaps im just far to optomistic .COYB
Dare I say Intertoto Cup? Does that still exist?
Nope! Well gone, Tom.
We had a very poor start to the season which has left us sitting 8th and hoping that Villa's and Liverpool's season go completely off the rails for us to move higher.
I hear your point Joey that Europa has offered us nothing, but I don't agree -without European football next season and a number of potential suitors playing Champions League football the heads of our players could very well be turned... I'm think the likes of Pienaar, Rodwell, Johnny H and Fellaini (with his PUSHHY Dad) could well sign for other clubs.
The potential knock on effect of this would be a huge dissappointment to fans and would mean that we won't be able to replace players like Hibbo (who isn't always bad) or Neville. So I do believe that by not qualifying for Europe next season there is a real potential we could take a competitve step backwards.
I hear your point Joey that Europa has offered us nothing, but I don't agree -without European football next season and a number of potential suitors playing Champions League football the heads of our players could very well be turned... I'm think the likes of Pienaar, Rodwell, Johnny H and Fellaini (with his PUSHHY Dad) could well sign for other clubs.
The potential knock on effect of this would be a huge dissappointment to fans and would mean that we won't be able to replace players like Hibbo (who isn't always bad) or Neville. So I do believe that by not qualifying for Europe next season there is a real potential we could take a competitve step backwards.
Going to be weird having no European football next season.
I guess we have been spoiled and gotten use to it the last few seasons.
I guess we have been spoiled and gotten use to it the last few seasons.
Ahhh - Matthew Tait - I see we are both on the same wave length.... :-)
I don't think no european competition next season will be as disasterous as some think it will. Neither Villa, Spurs, or Man City had any action in europe this season and their players didn't kick up a fuss. Once next season kicks off and we make a great start with all our players fit and on new and improved contracts, they'll forget about this season and look forward to pushing on for top 6 again.
I felt myself suddenly overcome with depression at the thought of only being able to challenge for top 6 but let's face it, for us to finish top 4 or even top 3 would be a miracle.
I felt myself suddenly overcome with depression at the thought of only being able to challenge for top 6 but let's face it, for us to finish top 4 or even top 3 would be a miracle.
I agree with Joey - we will probably finish 8th. However, if you take a hugely optimistic view (rare on this site I know!) and assume we can win our 4 remaining games, it's not Villa we've got our eye on, it's the Shite!
Winning all 4 will give us 63 points, which means our lovable neighbours will have to get 7 points to finish above us. Suppose they lose against Chelsea, then that means 2 wiins and a draw from the other 3 games - you can see them losing one of the away games against either Hull or Burnley. It would be good wouldn't it?!
Next season, assuming we don't lose any players in the transfer window, and assuming we have our first choice team (with or without any additions) fit for, say, at least 75% of the season, there is no reason why we should not be challenging for at least 4th. I hope, both for Moyes's and our sakes, we can do it.
COYB
Dont see the point of having a 3 point shoot out if its a draw.. Teams that park the bus when they travel to away games will then do it even more, creating a less exciting game. Imagine the likes of Fulham when they go away and they could win the league on shoot outs alone.
I would like to see a rule where if the score is 0-0 then the away team doesnt get a point, however, the home team does... That will stop the bus parking.
I would like to see a rule where if the score is 0-0 then the away team doesnt get a point, however, the home team does... That will stop the bus parking.
It's been disappointing to drop so many points in games we should have won, but if we don't get into Europe it could be a blessing in disguise. The only minor worry is if players like Pienaar get their heads turned elsewhere with the lure of more money and Europe.
However, if we can look after the players over the summer and come back into the new season with a clean bill of health, and sign a couple more players from a right winger, centre mid or maybe another striker we could be well equipped for next year. We should then have a bigger squad than this year with more players fit and less games with not being in europe, whilst all the other teams in the "top 8" will be in europe so we should beable to take advantage of this!
However, if we can look after the players over the summer and come back into the new season with a clean bill of health, and sign a couple more players from a right winger, centre mid or maybe another striker we could be well equipped for next year. We should then have a bigger squad than this year with more players fit and less games with not being in europe, whilst all the other teams in the "top 8" will be in europe so we should beable to take advantage of this!
I think we need to look at it this way. Look at all the teams above us that were or are fighting for that 4th spot for Champions League. Only Liverpool is still in Europe, Aston Villa went out early and Tottenham & Man C weren't even in Europe. Tottenham & Villa both got to FA Cup Semi Finals. It's between Spurs & City as to who gets fourth and they haven't had to play 50-60 games this season. I say let's have a year out of Europe and push for that 4th spot next season.
Gutted if we don't (and it looks like we won't) get Europa.
Some of my most enjoyable and exciting moments in the past few years have been traveling abroad to watch Everton compete against teams who are...erm..well who aren't Birmingham (or Bolton or..whoever).
When you play in a league (as we do) that you have NO chance of winning, you must take your thrills as and when you can.
For me personally, Europe has provided a lot of those thrills.
Also this notion of 'so we can concentrate on next season' is about as daft as anything I've heard.
Talk about wishful thinking.
Fact: We are getting further away from 4th, not closer.
And to those who say "yeah but if it wasn't for injuries..." I say "yeah but IF we were going to really challenge, injuries or not, we should have beaten Arsenal and Villa away and beaten Stoke, Birmingham, Wolves and West ham at home".
That's 12 points just tossed away - 12 points that would have put is 4th now.
But........we didn't, and there's nothing I've seen to make me think "yes but NEXT season we will!"
Especially as Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal, City, Spurs, Villa and 'them' will probably all spend more than us in the summer (and Sunderland and Newcastle come to think of it).
Some of my most enjoyable and exciting moments in the past few years have been traveling abroad to watch Everton compete against teams who are...erm..well who aren't Birmingham (or Bolton or..whoever).
When you play in a league (as we do) that you have NO chance of winning, you must take your thrills as and when you can.
For me personally, Europe has provided a lot of those thrills.
Also this notion of 'so we can concentrate on next season' is about as daft as anything I've heard.
Talk about wishful thinking.
Fact: We are getting further away from 4th, not closer.
And to those who say "yeah but if it wasn't for injuries..." I say "yeah but IF we were going to really challenge, injuries or not, we should have beaten Arsenal and Villa away and beaten Stoke, Birmingham, Wolves and West ham at home".
That's 12 points just tossed away - 12 points that would have put is 4th now.
But........we didn't, and there's nothing I've seen to make me think "yes but NEXT season we will!"
Especially as Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal, City, Spurs, Villa and 'them' will probably all spend more than us in the summer (and Sunderland and Newcastle come to think of it).
Any news on Heitinga's injury?
He'd be a big loss if he is going to miss a few games.
He'd be a big loss if he is going to miss a few games.
Like the majority consensus, I'm not really too fussed about not getting in Europa, but only if it gives us a good chance to have a crack at a Champions League position next season. This season has been a pretty tough one, mostly due to injury problems which have been out of the ordinary.
Do think that 4th is a realistic target, as some of the football we've been playing in recent weeks has been up there with the best. Conversely our defence, which is normally our strong point under Moyes, does need sorting out, as we've been leaking too many goals this season.
Think we do need to look at the striker position as well,. For me the Yak isn't really doing it, even if he still hasn't had that long to get over a serious injury. While Saha can't always be relied on to be fully fit/interested, but can be great if he's firing
Do think that 4th is a realistic target, as some of the football we've been playing in recent weeks has been up there with the best. Conversely our defence, which is normally our strong point under Moyes, does need sorting out, as we've been leaking too many goals this season.
Think we do need to look at the striker position as well,. For me the Yak isn't really doing it, even if he still hasn't had that long to get over a serious injury. While Saha can't always be relied on to be fully fit/interested, but can be great if he's firing
Dont be surprised if theres very little activity this summer with new signings. Apart from us not having a pot to piss in, its a world cup year and players tend not to move around so much in world cup years for obvious reasons.
You'll see clubs holding onto players until the WC is over and they can (potentially) inflate their values.
I think our squad is good enough, it just needs to stay fit!
You'll see clubs holding onto players until the WC is over and they can (potentially) inflate their values.
I think our squad is good enough, it just needs to stay fit!
its time to wake up big time. What benefit does going to the US have on our players exactly? ah thats right absolutely nothing. We the play minor teams like bury or york, right thats really challenging to our players?
We need to start the pre season by joining those little competitions out in asia or playing european oppposition in friendlies. It gee's the players up and gets them fit, it also benefits the club because we mix it with european teams. No mls team or the bury's or yorks of this world will ever be in a position to challenge our players.
We need to ditch the stupid tours that do not help our players and we know the us is not the place for us to go to get competitive matches.
We want players ready and rearing to go on the first day of the season, not still asleep in bed until october like the last several seasons. Its just not acceptable.
We need challenging european matches, or play in these competitions that the likes of city, spurs and even hull took part in.
The solution is simple, but moyse's planning is anything but.
We need to start the pre season by joining those little competitions out in asia or playing european oppposition in friendlies. It gee's the players up and gets them fit, it also benefits the club because we mix it with european teams. No mls team or the bury's or yorks of this world will ever be in a position to challenge our players.
We need to ditch the stupid tours that do not help our players and we know the us is not the place for us to go to get competitive matches.
We want players ready and rearing to go on the first day of the season, not still asleep in bed until october like the last several seasons. Its just not acceptable.
We need challenging european matches, or play in these competitions that the likes of city, spurs and even hull took part in.
The solution is simple, but moyse's planning is anything but.
Extra time didn't help a far superior Tottenham brush aside Portsmouth. 90 minutes in enough, and the currant format works.
If it isn't broke, don't fix it.
If it isn't broke, don't fix it.
David Chait in 12 - think you've got yourself mixed up there.
Last season's glorious run in the UEFA Cup ended at the first stage - against Standard Leige.
Also, season prior, we only played Zenith St Petersburg once - at home - in the group stages.
It's a contentious point, but clearly some people think a year out of Europa will allow us to go for top 4 - hasn't harmed Spurs efforts. And Villa went out in the first round, before their end of year capitulation (prior to playing us!)
But a lot can also depend on how we do in the domestic cups. But Europa League does entail a lot of games for a fraction of the reward of the CL.
Last season's glorious run in the UEFA Cup ended at the first stage - against Standard Leige.
Also, season prior, we only played Zenith St Petersburg once - at home - in the group stages.
It's a contentious point, but clearly some people think a year out of Europa will allow us to go for top 4 - hasn't harmed Spurs efforts. And Villa went out in the first round, before their end of year capitulation (prior to playing us!)
But a lot can also depend on how we do in the domestic cups. But Europa League does entail a lot of games for a fraction of the reward of the CL.
Villa and Spurs had no Europa League distractions this season but that has done what excactly for them?
A losers medal in the League Cup for Villa, both losing out the FA Cup semi-final.
Villa are not even certain yet of the Europa League next season, although Spurs still can get 4th.
But if they don't, neither has been able to use not being Europa by getting into the Champions League. So what's the point?
Even more so, had we not had so many injuries we'd might very well have been above them in the table by now despite having a European campaign.
Let's face it, the current top-3 will probably stay out of reach for us. Liverpool will not have another poor season like this one and with City spending more money that's at least 5 teams better equiped than Everton so already we're looking at 6th place.
Then there's Villa and Spurs again so it would be against the odds to get 4th next season.
We could have had it this season but fucked up.
I'd rather have some memorable European nights to look back on if we're not getting 4th anyway.
And who says we won't get injuries again next season?
It's up to Moyes to improve the squad and make sure it is big enough to deal with all the challenges ahead.
Thát's what he failed to do last summer, when it was already known that important players wouldn't be available for at least half a season, and what he also failed to do the summer before.
Are we not getting tired of saying 'next season will be so important'? We've said it for years now and have nothing to show for it.
This season was important and we failed.
A losers medal in the League Cup for Villa, both losing out the FA Cup semi-final.
Villa are not even certain yet of the Europa League next season, although Spurs still can get 4th.
But if they don't, neither has been able to use not being Europa by getting into the Champions League. So what's the point?
Even more so, had we not had so many injuries we'd might very well have been above them in the table by now despite having a European campaign.
Let's face it, the current top-3 will probably stay out of reach for us. Liverpool will not have another poor season like this one and with City spending more money that's at least 5 teams better equiped than Everton so already we're looking at 6th place.
Then there's Villa and Spurs again so it would be against the odds to get 4th next season.
We could have had it this season but fucked up.
I'd rather have some memorable European nights to look back on if we're not getting 4th anyway.
And who says we won't get injuries again next season?
It's up to Moyes to improve the squad and make sure it is big enough to deal with all the challenges ahead.
Thát's what he failed to do last summer, when it was already known that important players wouldn't be available for at least half a season, and what he also failed to do the summer before.
Are we not getting tired of saying 'next season will be so important'? We've said it for years now and have nothing to show for it.
This season was important and we failed.
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1 Posted 14/04/2010 at 23:52:55
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Basically, Kenwright being a Premier League pauper, running the club like his personal toy, put us on the back foot this year.
As for the Europa League, I've felt for a while now that it'd be best if we didn't qualify and had a season to solidify domestically and push on further. The only problem, of course, is attracting good players and keeping the ones we have if we don't qualify. But as long as the contracts are sewn up we can gamble for one year.