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Coleman... The New Johnson?
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The debate is well and truely raging. Should Moyes have let the young lad Coleman go on loan? Is he worth a place in the team over Neville? Our marvel Captian Pip! Where does Hibbert fit into all of this?
My line of thought is he could be a great right-sided winger... a la Glen Johnson. It's almost likely that we won't be able to afford Donovan. So let's stick Coleman on the right side of midfield.
Isn't he already getting goals and assist already at Blackpool?
Defender or midfielder.......... your choice!
Jimmy Saville, Posted 16/04/2010 at 21:44:18
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A week? Never...
For me, first choice rb nxt year and sign donovan in the summer.
with baines and pienaar on the left, we will be a threat on both flanks.
with baines and pienaar on the left, we will be a threat on both flanks.
He's not great defending but neither is Baines but he is very attack minded having watched his performances for us and a few highlights for Blackpool. A first team player not necessarily first choice, the decision of Hibbert or Neville more intriguing as they are the same player with Hibbert edging defence slightly, having both types of player to chose from depending who we are up against and how that game is going.
I have great hopes that Seamus will become our regular right back in due course, if not next season maybe the following.
However a point about Neville. Now I am not his greatest fan and, like many of you, have concerns about a number of facets of his game.
There was an incident today and I thought..."what a man...this is the sort of guy who restores your faith in this all too often tawdry game".
Some hank went through late as he ( Pip)was clearing and caught him with his leg off the ground. I've seen a red card for less. It obviously hurt but he bounced straight back up and got on with things. This was the sort of incident where other players who shall remain nameless ( let's call them Stevie, Carra, Masher for the sake of simplicity) would be waving pretend red cards at the ref.
Excellent example to us all !
However a point about Neville. Now I am not his greatest fan and, like many of you, have concerns about a number of facets of his game.
There was an incident today and I thought..."what a man...this is the sort of guy who restores your faith in this all too often tawdry game".
Some hank went through late as he ( Pip)was clearing and caught him with his leg off the ground. I've seen a red card for less. It obviously hurt but he bounced straight back up and got on with things. This was the sort of incident where other players who shall remain nameless ( let's call them Stevie, Carra, Masher for the sake of simplicity) would be waving pretend red cards at the ref.
Excellent example to us all !
Coleman has played a couple of times and we are hailing him as the messiah. He may be good, even turn out to be great, but let's not do our usual thing of totally over-rating players we have hardly seen. I trust Moyes will do what's best for him and the team.
Jim
Good letter, great name, can you 'fix it' please!
Good letter, great name, can you 'fix it' please!
Deary me, here we go again with the Coleman debate.
The lad had a good couple of performances for us, and you're trying to turn him into a fully fledged player with pedigree. Let the lad mature, let him get the experience he needs.
For me, I dont think he is entirely ready for the Premier League and that's why Moyes has let him go out on loan, to get the experience he needs. Ask yourself exactly what he could have provided that the other lads don't already?
I can't believe people actually seem to think this is another Messi in the making. Give the lad time to get the experience he needs, he will be all the better for it. Besides, I'd rather see an experienced player in the closing games of the season while we can still fight for 7th rather than a raw rookie which he is.
The lad had a good couple of performances for us, and you're trying to turn him into a fully fledged player with pedigree. Let the lad mature, let him get the experience he needs.
For me, I dont think he is entirely ready for the Premier League and that's why Moyes has let him go out on loan, to get the experience he needs. Ask yourself exactly what he could have provided that the other lads don't already?
I can't believe people actually seem to think this is another Messi in the making. Give the lad time to get the experience he needs, he will be all the better for it. Besides, I'd rather see an experienced player in the closing games of the season while we can still fight for 7th rather than a raw rookie which he is.
Another day, another young player on loan story.
Personally, I think that Moyes's policy of giving decent young players some Championship experience is paying off.
Both Coleman and Vaughan are at clubs in the top third of the league and today they both played really well.
Coleman was brought down in the box for Blackpool's opener (a penalty) and according to the official Blackpool FC site was "full of attacking intent" all game.
Vaughan meanwhile finally had a good game for Leicester, played the entire second half, created one chance, shot straight at the keeper while clean through on another and beat the last man for pace before slotting home the final goal of the match.
Judging by Foxes' fans' comments on a forum here (http://www.foxestalk.co.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=65602&st=0) he brought some creativity and excitement to the game and did really well.
Moyes's policy should work well. With some luck, Coleman and Vaughan will return better players and will push Hibbert, Neville, Yak and Saha for places next year — which surely is DM's intent, rather than throwing them straight into the team.
COYB!
Personally, I think that Moyes's policy of giving decent young players some Championship experience is paying off.
Both Coleman and Vaughan are at clubs in the top third of the league and today they both played really well.
Coleman was brought down in the box for Blackpool's opener (a penalty) and according to the official Blackpool FC site was "full of attacking intent" all game.
Vaughan meanwhile finally had a good game for Leicester, played the entire second half, created one chance, shot straight at the keeper while clean through on another and beat the last man for pace before slotting home the final goal of the match.
Judging by Foxes' fans' comments on a forum here (http://www.foxestalk.co.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=65602&st=0) he brought some creativity and excitement to the game and did really well.
Moyes's policy should work well. With some luck, Coleman and Vaughan will return better players and will push Hibbert, Neville, Yak and Saha for places next year — which surely is DM's intent, rather than throwing them straight into the team.
COYB!
Paul Oakes, the problem with responses such as yours to the Coleman debate is they are worthless. I haven't read anyone calling Coleman the new Messi or even half-way that good but still the frantic amongst you eager to smack down this lad make claims that he is being hailed as something he isn't.
What a lot of people posting have said, and my own personal opinion is, is that he offers something we haven't got in the form of Hibbert or Neville and that's an attacking wing back; the other two are defenders. So please lay off the phantom claims that he is some demi-god or panacea to our right-sided woes as no-one claims he is, we are just asking for a change... or chance of a change.
I, personally, have questioned his defensive skills but equally said his attacking verve and crossing was far better than Neville was giving us as first choice. Every day is different and today we saw a roaming Hibbert who on more than one occasion put it a great cross which should have been buried. Today showed us all an attacking, passing Everton is capable of taking a team down.
What a lot of people posting have said, and my own personal opinion is, is that he offers something we haven't got in the form of Hibbert or Neville and that's an attacking wing back; the other two are defenders. So please lay off the phantom claims that he is some demi-god or panacea to our right-sided woes as no-one claims he is, we are just asking for a change... or chance of a change.
I, personally, have questioned his defensive skills but equally said his attacking verve and crossing was far better than Neville was giving us as first choice. Every day is different and today we saw a roaming Hibbert who on more than one occasion put it a great cross which should have been buried. Today showed us all an attacking, passing Everton is capable of taking a team down.
"So please lay off the phantom claims that he is some demi god or panacea to our right handed woes as no one claims he is, we are just asking for a change... or chance of a change."
Gavin, go back and read what I wrote before pointing out your own worthless self assessment of what others have written.
But hey, I will add what I wrote here, ok?
The lad had a good couple of performances for us, and you're trying to turn him into a fully fledged player with pedigree. Let the lad mature, let him get the experience he needs.
Gavin notice the word "you're" in bold? Clearly you jumped in without even reading a single line.
Gavin, go back and read what I wrote before pointing out your own worthless self assessment of what others have written.
But hey, I will add what I wrote here, ok?
The lad had a good couple of performances for us, and you're trying to turn him into a fully fledged player with pedigree. Let the lad mature, let him get the experience he needs.
Gavin notice the word "you're" in bold? Clearly you jumped in without even reading a single line.
In Bale, Tottenham have converted a full back into a pacey wide midfielder. He doesn't have many tricks but his pace going forward will trouble any defence. Could Seamus do something similar for Everton? I believe so and now would have been a good opportunity to find out.
The decision to send him to Blackpool was short-sighted and misguided but unsurprising.
I dont disagree we need to see a change, but not a raw kid with next to no experience. The fact he has only played a few games doesn't mean he has a god-given right to play for us.
Besides, you won't see a change while Moyes's favourites are playing, will you? So it's kind of futile. But you've got to let him get more playing experience. Whenever I have watched him for Everton, he has looked out of his depth at times. It's hoped when he comes back he will be ready to play for us — that's if Neville isn't replaced, but that's not gonna happen any time soon, sadly.
Besides, you won't see a change while Moyes's favourites are playing, will you? So it's kind of futile. But you've got to let him get more playing experience. Whenever I have watched him for Everton, he has looked out of his depth at times. It's hoped when he comes back he will be ready to play for us — that's if Neville isn't replaced, but that's not gonna happen any time soon, sadly.
Forget the 'Coleman debate', get it into your stupid, tiny little minds that he's NOT a midfielder or winger. Jimmy, 25 people have suggested what you're saying on this website already, and no, it's a terrible idea. We don't even know if he's good enough to play right back, and to play right wing he'd have to be twice as skilful, have pace, vision, great crossing ability etc etc. Numerous skills that, had he shown them in training, he'd have been in the team by now.
He's done 110 good minutes in the Premier League at right back, how in the world could that possibly make him a right winger? Your example, Glen Johnson, is decidedly average in midfield and he's likely to be England's World Cup right back.
He's done 110 good minutes in the Premier League at right back, how in the world could that possibly make him a right winger? Your example, Glen Johnson, is decidedly average in midfield and he's likely to be England's World Cup right back.
I prefer Baxter, a far more accomplished player. So why isn't he playing for us week in and out? Or even Agard for that matter? They have more experienced than Coleman and are way way better than Anichebe in my opinion.
Mike Alison, Vic and Leon Osman have played wide on the right, would you say that they have pace, vision and great crossing ability? Obviously Leighton Baines showed nothing in training when Lescott was played out of place in preference to him. Gosling was a full back but has played wide midfield and Coleman is better and much quicker. Sorry Mike, but if David Moyes is bold enough you will surely be eating your words.
Well let me say again (God help me) about developing our young ones: Send him to Arena at LA Galaxy.
Comparison with Bale is a very good point. Moyes in fact did this before by playing Naysmith (a terrible player) in midfield. It worked out pretty well as we finished 4th!
James Flynn, what are you on about lad? Send him to America? I couldn't think of a worse idea. Coleman is now 21, he's not a youth team player. He is showing already he is better than Naughton who we tried to sign last year, who would have seen a lot of first team action had we signed him. Coleman didn't just play 2 good games, he completely changed those 2 games - one of them against a now top 4 side.
I think Coleman has now earned the right for a run in the team and should definitely be around the first team squad next season and not on loan. The problem we have is Moyes has his favourites and both Neville and HIbbert will always start ahead of Coleman.
I think Coleman has now earned the right for a run in the team and should definitely be around the first team squad next season and not on loan. The problem we have is Moyes has his favourites and both Neville and HIbbert will always start ahead of Coleman.
Paul, your opening gambit of your first posting has the patronising tone of a 12-year-old "deary me..."? As far as your retort goes, I suggest a dictionary.
I've not seen enough of Baxter to say he is ready for the Premier League yet. I can't remember him winning a single man of the match for a first team game though, can you? He has received rave reviews from reserve games, but we have heard those before and seen players released.
Coincidentally, Baxter's cousin is a RM Commando based in Scotland where I used to work and his view on why he didn't get games above Vaughan in the past was that Vaughan was a lot more self confident and in the face of David Moyes and Steve Round during training sessions. Either way, neither appear anywhere near the first team at the moment.
I've not seen enough of Baxter to say he is ready for the Premier League yet. I can't remember him winning a single man of the match for a first team game though, can you? He has received rave reviews from reserve games, but we have heard those before and seen players released.
Coincidentally, Baxter's cousin is a RM Commando based in Scotland where I used to work and his view on why he didn't get games above Vaughan in the past was that Vaughan was a lot more self confident and in the face of David Moyes and Steve Round during training sessions. Either way, neither appear anywhere near the first team at the moment.
To answer the various points made in response to my post.
Forwards often drop into wide midfield, many of the skills are the same, and they're used to receiving the ball high up the pitch and doing something with it, something Coleman has probably never done in his life. Vic's got pace (and strength), Leon's got vision, neither of them are perfect for the right side job, and both are put of position when they play there.
Gareth Bale is a better wide midfielder than he is a full back, and frankly, a far better all round footbller than Seamus Coleman. We haven't seen much of Coleman, but even in his two good performances, we've seen evidence of a heavy touch. I've said elsewhere that his impact was far more down to enthusiasm and endeavour than it was skill and I stand by that. I don't mean to do Coleman down, I'd have given him the chance in our first team this season, but that doesn't make him a right winger.
It's far easier to attack from deep, you have more space, time and you can see everything in front of you; it's a much more difficult job to start high up the pitch where you're already marked.
Baines was kept out of the side because Lescott, Jagielka and Yobo didn't deserve to be dropped, and Moyes operates in that way, being fair to his players. We were winning games, and Lescott was playing well at left back (I saw him put as the left back in a few 'team of the season' selections that year) so the comparison doesn't really hold.
Naysmith was never terrible, and was equally effective in midfield as full back, but he didn't exactly create much. He worked hard and got up and down, that's not the standard I'm setting for our 'new' right winger.
Do people honestly see Seamus Coleman picking the ball up under pressure, with no forward momentum, and expect him to beat men or pick killer passes? He looks like he'll probably make a good right back, that's not the same as being a right midfielder/winger.
Forwards often drop into wide midfield, many of the skills are the same, and they're used to receiving the ball high up the pitch and doing something with it, something Coleman has probably never done in his life. Vic's got pace (and strength), Leon's got vision, neither of them are perfect for the right side job, and both are put of position when they play there.
Gareth Bale is a better wide midfielder than he is a full back, and frankly, a far better all round footbller than Seamus Coleman. We haven't seen much of Coleman, but even in his two good performances, we've seen evidence of a heavy touch. I've said elsewhere that his impact was far more down to enthusiasm and endeavour than it was skill and I stand by that. I don't mean to do Coleman down, I'd have given him the chance in our first team this season, but that doesn't make him a right winger.
It's far easier to attack from deep, you have more space, time and you can see everything in front of you; it's a much more difficult job to start high up the pitch where you're already marked.
Baines was kept out of the side because Lescott, Jagielka and Yobo didn't deserve to be dropped, and Moyes operates in that way, being fair to his players. We were winning games, and Lescott was playing well at left back (I saw him put as the left back in a few 'team of the season' selections that year) so the comparison doesn't really hold.
Naysmith was never terrible, and was equally effective in midfield as full back, but he didn't exactly create much. He worked hard and got up and down, that's not the standard I'm setting for our 'new' right winger.
Do people honestly see Seamus Coleman picking the ball up under pressure, with no forward momentum, and expect him to beat men or pick killer passes? He looks like he'll probably make a good right back, that's not the same as being a right midfielder/winger.
Forgot to say that Gosling was not a right back as such, and played in various different positions at Plymouth and has done since he came here.
Couldn't agree more, Mike, playing wide midfield is a totally different skill-set to playing full-back.
Alan Clarke - Sorry for not responding sooner. Blackpool is preferable? He's doing well there is he? Because they're a minor league side and he's too good for that level of play.
What I'm on about is that EFC is better served by sending players like Coleman (and mainly Rodwell) on loan to MLS top sides once the EPL season ends. I keep mentioning Galaxy because Donovan plays for them, Arena is a first-rate Manager, Galaxy have MLS title aspirations, and are a good team in one of the world's major city. Would that be bad for Coleman/Rodwell? No.
Plus, for goodness sake, we're talking about a loan and nothing more. MLS is a few years from eliminating wage restrictions. Anyone on loan will be back for the season (or when MLS season ends) the better for the experience. I'm an American soccer fan who considers EPL the top league on earth because it's so. Some here may not want to hear it, but top MLS is good enough for the EPL.
I don't suggest Coleman/Rodwell go on loan to Galaxy to entice them to come to America. I've come over as an EFC fan because Mr. Moyes took on our boy Landon, played him, and you all treated him so well. Whatever I say about loans to MLS originate from that. EFC has an in with MLS that no other EPL team has; you took on and played our best player against top competition. As an American, it's difficult to explain how important that is to us.
No one's trying to steal players and, no matter what some in England want to think, top side MLS is good football. Arena's Galaxy first. Stop wondering what I'm on about and take advantage of Donovan's success and acceptance by Everton.
It's border-line embarrassing that some EFC fans would rather a talent play England minor league or sit home doing nothing instead of playing the next few months for a team that matters in the US. I can’t even express to you all how Rodwell would be accepted in LA. Beyond his obvious talent, the kid’s a Star! Is there a problem with beating the EFC drum in the hype capital of the world?
What I'm on about is that EFC is better served by sending players like Coleman (and mainly Rodwell) on loan to MLS top sides once the EPL season ends. I keep mentioning Galaxy because Donovan plays for them, Arena is a first-rate Manager, Galaxy have MLS title aspirations, and are a good team in one of the world's major city. Would that be bad for Coleman/Rodwell? No.
Plus, for goodness sake, we're talking about a loan and nothing more. MLS is a few years from eliminating wage restrictions. Anyone on loan will be back for the season (or when MLS season ends) the better for the experience. I'm an American soccer fan who considers EPL the top league on earth because it's so. Some here may not want to hear it, but top MLS is good enough for the EPL.
I don't suggest Coleman/Rodwell go on loan to Galaxy to entice them to come to America. I've come over as an EFC fan because Mr. Moyes took on our boy Landon, played him, and you all treated him so well. Whatever I say about loans to MLS originate from that. EFC has an in with MLS that no other EPL team has; you took on and played our best player against top competition. As an American, it's difficult to explain how important that is to us.
No one's trying to steal players and, no matter what some in England want to think, top side MLS is good football. Arena's Galaxy first. Stop wondering what I'm on about and take advantage of Donovan's success and acceptance by Everton.
It's border-line embarrassing that some EFC fans would rather a talent play England minor league or sit home doing nothing instead of playing the next few months for a team that matters in the US. I can’t even express to you all how Rodwell would be accepted in LA. Beyond his obvious talent, the kid’s a Star! Is there a problem with beating the EFC drum in the hype capital of the world?
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1 Posted 17/04/2010 at 18:09:35
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