The Mail Bag
Timmy Cahill
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I hope Tim has shut up the people who want to sell him. 10 goals this year now is it.
£1.5 million for him was a steal, his workrate is always spot on, his commitment the same, his goals are priceless and yet some people want to get rid.
Unbelievable.
Ryan Holroyd, Posted 17/04/2010 at 17:20:06
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I have never said I want to sell him.
I think he is a good player, with limitations. He scored today, yes, but I wouldn't say he won us the game, or that he was the behind the football that had many of us drooling, that would be Mikky, Pienaar, Saha and even Bily. Cahill had a good solid game, yet he did commit 1 terrible foul which if committed by Terry, Gerrard, Carragher etc fans on here would talk of a conspiracy not to send off 'specific' players.
But credit when it's due, and his goals were well taken. I still feel that he is more effective in the final 30 minutes than in the first 60 and for that reason I would love to see him used as an impact sub.
But we now have options:
- Yak is coming back and I do believe he can do a job next to Saha.
- Bily is improving, and next season could be a great attacking midfielder.
- Anichebe is improving, play him out wide and stick Pienaar in the middle.
- Osman seems to have found his best position in the middle. This could accommodate Arteta moving forward to continue his scoring exploits.
- Rodwell looks like he could become a Gerrardesque box-to-box/attacking mid and could play there.
His workrate is always spot on, his commitment the same,
For much of this season that statement is absolute crap. In many games he has simply not been at the races and should have been dropped.
I'd try to get as much as I can for him in the close season, coz from here on in it's going to be downhill for him, age is not on his side, and he has lost some of his speed.
Needs to be sold along with Yobo the clown; never liked either of them, how they can even be considered Prem standard is beyond me.
10 goals is a good return for Tim; lest we forget he played a good chunk of the season out of position. He remains the player who makes our favourite formation possible.
He was carrying injuries earlier in the season but played for the team and out of position.
.
You only have to look at the respect he gets from the rest of the team to see what an important player he is for us let alone that he eats, sleeps and breathes EFC.
His goals have been a bonus and got us many points we wouldn't have got otherwise.
He's all nuisance value and is great at that. What he can't do is pick up the slack when Pienaar, Arteta, Osman and Bily aren't playing or aren't playing well. He simply doesn't have the technical attributes.
No player in this team is good enough for the team to be built around them. We needed performances from Tim at the start of the season and we didn't get them.
The best players can play anywhere and still have an impact.
If Neville played crap today, everyone would say drop him, not "Oh well, you know, he wasn't at right back". Bily has been rightly criticised, despite being played out of position, Osman has received some awful criticism over the years playing out of position, but one Tim Cahill is beyond criticism for some.
If a player doesn't play well enough, they get dropped, no matter who it is. That is the mentality we need if we are to reach top 4. Cahill gets a goal here and there, but in my opinion not enough to warrant a place in the team on that premise alone.
Frank Lampard has had a poor season (apparently) and has got 10 more goals than Cahill this season.
I believe there are better players out there than Tim Cahill. I believe Bily and Rodders are two of them, but both need to play there for us to find out, if that means Cahill being moved to the bench then so be it.
He would still play a vital role for us from the bench.
In the last few months, the crossing from Baines, Pienaar, Bily and Arteta has been more consistent, resulting in more goals.
Moyes in my view has been spot on in treating him as a fundamental part of this team. Notice today after Dunn was all over Howard, Cahill gave the Blackburn player a hard reminder with a late tackle. In a team which can be soft at times, he has some nastiness in him which personally I like. I don't get the criticism and I certainly don't agree with the comparison with Bily.
Fran, your arguement that Tim, a midfielder, was asked to play midfield and was hopeless is flawed. Before the game became as technical as it is today, I would have agreed with you.
Basically in the old days you only had three positions. Defender, Midfielder or Striker. Today's game has evolved and players like Tim cannot be classified simply as a midfielder, so therefore if he plays deep defence, wing, centre or attacking you want him basically to be man of the match every week. As I've said before, they're not robots and it is difficult to be at your peak 12 months of the year.
I'm just thankful we have a manager that has a better handle on football than some of our fans. It seems the first sign of a player possibly going off the boil and he gets dropped by your reckoning.
If you continually choose to ignore the legitimate reasons for Tim not setting the world on fire early in the campaign, it shows you have a very narrow minded view of football.
This arguement that if he's not scoring goals he offers little is another poor read on football as, when we aren't scoring, it's usually Tim who's offering the most for the team.
I think that every fan acknowledges his strengths, which have been well highlighted in his last few displays. However, we also have to recognize that the team is starting to outgrow him and that he is past his prime, which many of his other performances this season have borne testament to.
We all want Everton to be playing in the Champion’s League in the near future. The likes of Arteta, Pienaar, Fellaini, Heitinga, Baines, Saha and Rodwell have the potential to thrive in that competition. Even Osman and Bilyaletdinov would have the opportunity to shine. Despite the affection that many fans regard him with, Tim Cahill is not, never was and never will be a player of that quality. The question is how and when does he move on in the way that best serves the club?
Personally, I would have cashed in on him last summer when his high profile probably would have ensured that his transfer fee exceeded his value as a player. Other people have suggested that they would prefer him to be gradually phased out of the playing side whilst mentoring the younger players, in the same way as Giggs and Scholes do at United. If Cahill’s happy in that role, that’s a perfectly reasonable suggestion.
No team will enjoy seeing his name on a teamsheet to play them. Psychologically this gives Everton an advantage. His goal tally is very healthy too.
And to suggest that he isn't good enough to play Champions League? He has already proved himself at a World Cup.
He strikes me as a very inspirational character; the management obviously think so. Let us respect their decision and admire Cahill for what he does, not what we think he should be doing.
Tim Cahill should be one of the first names on Everton's team sheet every week without question. Thankfully, David Moyes thinks so as well.
The 9 players (+4 Jags, Yak, Saha and Anichibe) named in your penultimate paragraph should fill us all with hope, if we can keep them. They are the core. Some of our others are good support, and if Moyes can find an unpolished gem or two......
Ryan, I agree, at £1.5 million TC (Tim, not Tony!!) was a steal.
The Scholes one is a good example, he's not a regular starter, he plays far fewer games than he used to, and he's fresh enough to pop in the last minute to win a huge game near the end of the season. That's the role a lot of us would like to see Cahill in, as one of 20 first team players.
Like all players, he has good spells and not-so-good spells and if the team wins we don't criticise much. Seemed like deja vu today until he grabbed the winner but Yakubu produced the magic.
The defence still goes to sleep and Jags is still a little rusty. We have conceded 2 goals in each of the last 3 games despite dominating in them and that is not good. Cahill would produce a good fee if we sold him but I think it would be a big mistake as his kind of prowess is very rare.
Now I ask our pundits which current Everton player has proved his credentials at the games highest level. Is it Johnnie, Bily, or Mikey. Maybe it is Captain Pip or Bainsy or Peanuts or Felli, Saha or Yak, Might it be Joey or Vic? Surely it is not twinkle toes Ossie or Hibbo. Nah' forget I even mentioned those two.
If you don't know who it is, I'll give you a clue. Our only player to reach such a high standard comes from the land down under.
Let's hear no more dribbling stupidity about Tim not being good enough against European teams.
Like I said in an earlier "controversial" post, very reluctantly Tim is amongst the players I'd CONSIDER selling, and the critical point in such a decision being the offer coming in.
Perhaps we won't get the £10m+ that would have been nailed on from Newcastle, Spurs or West Ham for a high scoring Premier League midfielder at 30, two or three years ago, but obviously we'd get more than a couple of million (at least I'm looking for way more) for selling.
£7m would probably do it for me, and don't forget that would also release £50k/wk off the wage budget, which would cover a very competitive wage offer for two top notch 22-year-olds in the Fellaini bracket.
As a side note, Big Vic would fetch more than £1-2m too. Ideally, he should have had a few of those European goals translated into a handful PL goals for optimal transfer value, but for the likes of Hull, Wigan, Wolves or even Stoke, he'd be a fairly big fish to land (quite involved in the very successful first team set-up of Everton when fit for the past three years or so). £3m easily, £4m possible. I'm less sure I'd take that money at this stage (and Vic is likely on around £10k/wk?).
That must have been his double playing in Pienaar at Arsenal. The back-heel to Peanuts at home to Sporting for his goal... what a crap pass. Who is the mystery man winning defensive headers all the time...?
You guys have real short memories. I see Lars is selling Victor also for a couple of million. I thought he did real well in his 15 minutes today. You think we will replace him for this money?
Cahill has been an absolute legend. He won us the game today and people are still not only questioning his place in the team but whether or not he should be sold!
Get a FUCKING grip!
I will say it now for all the short-sighted know-nothing moaners when Tim's goals aren't flowing week-in, week-out.
"Yeah, but apart from the goals, what does he actually contribute??"
There is a saying in Darts (bear with me): "180 for show, Doubles for Dough".
Skillful the three darts in the treble twenty undoubtably is. It is all wasted if Mr Slow and Steady, doing the unflashy basics right, time after time after time, gets out on the double whatever to finish first to win the prize.
We're very quick to jump on players (I'm a big culprit) when their confidence is low and they need a run to get it back. Cahill is unplayable when he's in this kind of form and we should remember that when he's not in his best run of form. I'd have him as captain ahead of Neville.
Cahill is no different from any other player: when he plays well he will be praised; when he plays badly, he will be criticised.
For many Evertonians there is no better sight than to see him running towards the corner flag; we love him, but that surely shouldn't blind us to the abject performances he's put in for the first two-thirds of this season?
The Tiger is on fire now, but Moyes could and should have dropped him earlier this season, perhaps his replacement would have scored some of the sitters he missed or found the pass Tim couldn't and we'd be in a better position than we are now.
My all time favourite, but I wouldn't argue with anybody who claimed he didn't warrant a place in the team between the last two chrimbos.
As for selling him, not sure where that came from. I don't think I've heard that suggestion. We'd only get a million or two for him... why accept that for somebody who has proved time and again that he can be priceless?
I am sure our opponents breath a sigh of relief when he is not on our teamsheet, I just hope he has a good World Cup and comes back fit.
And it's not just Timmy's goals, but the effect he has on opposing teams, like at corners when most of the defense of the other team is thinking about wee Tim. That sort of effect is priceless.
As for Big Vic, I think we should give him some time, his attitude seems to be coming good and I really believe he has all the attributes to be a top player... he was just lacking the application. I genuinely think we would regret selling him later on, and especially for a paltry £2 mill.
I gotta admit during the last 3 or 4 games, he's proved me wrong. I know he was asked to play right wing some of the time, but in his favoured position he has not been playing very well earlier.
But selling him is ridiculous. But I think what people under-estimate is he has not got many weaknesses in him. He is a very good all rounded player, he's not great at stuff like passing, tackling etc but he's not bad at them either. And with his obvious outstanding attributes he would be a threat to ANY team.
Let me go one step further — would anybody argue that any of the team in the world would take him? I think Barca are the only team that wouldn't have him. Yeah obviously not as a first teamer, but as an impact player, anybody but Barca would take him.
The 84-87 team had a few players that could dish it out, Psycho Reid and even Sharpy weren’t averse to putting the foot in. But as some posters have already pointed out, the number of opposing managers that single him out tells its own story.
Mr Wilson nails this article and most of the subsequent silliness to the wall...
Well, apart from the suggestion that the latter stages of the World Cup is the only place that class shows... or that Cahill's actually done much there.
Think a lot depends on the system we are playing. The fact is that recently we seem to have turned into much more of an intricate passing Arsenal-esque team. This is not a style that suits Timmy and a lot of our quick passing moves seem to break down when they reach him. For this reason, I personally (whilst playing this style) would advocate playing Bily-kin that role. He has the touch and ability to link play well and has proved he also has a knack for goals.
Not suggesting for a second that we should sell Timmy though. His value comes in breaking down more resilient teams that perhaps require a more direct approach. His presence at set pieces and penchant for that hard to find goal certainly make him worth more than a few million to us.
It wasn't until I went to the Villa game and physically saw the effort Cahill put in that I've realised how important he is to the team.
Anyone who says "take away the goals" is being ridiculous because, even without the goals, he is immense to play against. The runs, the niggles, the overall team play Cahill puts in is a testament to effort the other players should be putting in.
Bily is simply all over the place at the moment. There were times at the Villa match where I was convinced I could have done a better marking/positional job. Whether comes good next season is to be seen. Let's not take away his ability to cross etc.
I agree Cahill has had some poor games even in his best role but asking him to play as an effective wide player is utter bollocks. Look at the effect that had on Osman who has far more technique and skill than Cahill, it nearly killed him off and now he has been in his proper position he has been one of our best players this season IMO.
Ask any manager and fan outside Goodison who they fear in our team, it won't be Pienaar or Arteta, it will be the man who produces year-in, year-out against the big boys — and he has been the only one who has, too.
What's the saying? "Big players for big games."
I remember he was pushed back in midfield against Middlesborough in the Quarterfinals of FA Cup last year and transformed our performance.
He is a quality player. He is not the best passer by any means and frankly, if we had a full squad, he would have been dropped earlier in the season. I think that's a positive not a negative.
In terms of how he rates overall, I would rather have him in our team than be against us and I think he is as close to being the first name on the team sheet as Arteta.
Moyes now has a bloody good squad assembled for next season and one that can give the big boys a right run for their money finally.
Timmy is a huge part of this set-up for his box-to-box aggression and tireless efforts off the ball. No-one is saying he is Xavi or Iniesta like but he is in my eyes a Gatuso or a Davids type of player. His presence lifts those around him and puts the fear of god in the opposition's minds for set pieces at both ends.
Besides all of this, the lad loves playing for Everton, in my eyes is an Evertonian and one that we should be bloody grateful to have in our ranks.
Those that want to sell him, I would advise taking up another sport as football seems to be a struggle.
Ryan Kicks it off chastising "the people who want to sell him" ... but who are you talking about, Ryan? Who wants to sell him?
Lars says he would consider an offer of £7 million, but hardly advocates selling him. Aiden might have done last season but not now.
James thinks that's outrageous, people should who want to sell should "get a fucking grip" Derek agrees? But which people are we talking about?
Stuart thinks to suggest selling The Tiger for £1-2 million is "just plain stupid". Ben supports him "ridiculous" he calls it ... well ok guys but who are you arguing with? Nobody suggested that either.
Chris thinks anyone who wants to sell should take up another sport, like who Chris, who do you mean?
45 people have posted on this thread so far; nobody has said we should sell The Tiger... so who the fuck are all you outraged people getting so angry with?
I think the comment below from this thread is suggesting we sell Tim Cahill.
"I'd try to get as much as I can for him in the close season, coz from here on in it's going to be downhill for him, age is not on his side, and he has lost some of his speed."
Sell Phil Jagielka!!
Yer shower of crazy bastards. Who next?
Took the words right out of my mouth!
Even when he is not scoring ,what we get out of him — in respect of workrate, heading ability, nastiness, leadership — make him the player who Moyes rightly depends on. Sometimes I get the feeling that the dirty work he does gets missed by some of his detractors.
It was you that said we would only get 1-2 million for him!!
Who do you think that "ridiculous" was aimed at?
In order to raise funds sufficient enough to enable Moyes to go into the market and buy a player who would actually improve our squad maybe we need to be shifting out a bigger name. Who though? Of those who would command a lofty transfer fee, Arteta, Pienaar, Fellaini and Jagielka are all indispensable to my mind. Rodwell is in demand but I believe the club should do everything in their power to keep hold of him for now because he is only going to get better and his monetary worth is also going to keep on growing as he improves. So which 'big name' player is actually expendable? Tim Cahill anyone?
Now don't get the wrong idea here. I think Cahill has been a fantastic servant for Everton over the years and a true bargain buy. His goals, tenacity and commitment have contributed greatly to our improvement over the past 5 years but I believe the team are now in a position where they are able to cope, and even thrive, without him. Of all our midfield players (note: I am not including Phil Neville as a midfielder) Cahill is by far the least technically proficient and we appear to play a more penetrating passing game without him in the side.
Whilst in the past we have been overly reliant on his goals from midfield, I believe this is no longer the case. Pienaar, Arteta, Fellaini, Rodwell, Gosling, Billy and Osman are all capable of chipping in with their fair share now and so Tim is no longer as vital as he once was. However, he is still held in very high esteem by both pundits and managers and is regularly highlighted as being Everton's 'danger man'.
I'm sure if he was made available there would be plenty of takers and I'm equally sure he could command a hefty fee. As he's in his 30s now maybe the club should cash in while his star is still in the ascendancy?
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1 Posted 17/04/2010 at 20:19:27
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I like to think it is the "constructive" [cough!] criticism on here that Timmy has taken to heart and caused him to up his game. It's bollocks, of course... but far better IMHO than your supposed wisdom after the fact.