The Mail Bag
Bullshit Summer, Round 2
Comments (59)
Yes it is just around the corner, most likely to happen in June / July:
Moyes: "I have targets lined up and no-one is leaving this club."
Kenwright: "Wow, that's what I said to David when I saw the things this kid could do!"
"It will be like having new signings, whe the Yak and Ossie get fully fit."
"It will take a massive £50 million before Jack leaves here."
"Watch this space..."
"He cried down the phone begging me to let him go."
"David's got a great replacement lined up."
"He is definitely coming in, on loan initially and if we like the look of him, well who knows?"
Likely to come out around August 25th":
Moyes: "I would like to bring in 1 or 2 maybe loan signings, we have no money."
"Hopefully we can avoid relegation this year."
Kenwright: "We have money — I just can't spend it."
"It's getting tight out there!"
Chris Perry, Posted 19/04/2010 at 12:49:51
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Gosling is out for 9 months though, Colin, so 1 of our new signings will have to wait until Christmas at least! Brings to mind the Ever Banega scandal of last summer. I was considerably red-faced after bragging to mates about Banega after having read Moyes comments on teletext to the effect that Banega was a done deal. Bottom line don´t believe anything until you see it!
God I hate the summer speculation... You always get the feeling Everton are on the point of imploding and Moyes is about to resign. Can't see it being any different this year.
I have been as critical as anybody over some of our form, players and tactics over the years and am often a morose old sod, but compared to you Chris...
The team is genuinely exciting now and some of the football as good as any in the league. We are finally as good as anybody in the Prem and all you can do is moan about what is yet to happen instead of celebrating the fact that Everton are now the genuine article.
Lighten up. We don't play any games in the close season and our last one worked out quite well in the longer term.
The team is genuinely exciting now and some of the football as good as any in the league. We are finally as good as anybody in the Prem and all you can do is moan about what is yet to happen instead of celebrating the fact that Everton are now the genuine article.
Lighten up. We don't play any games in the close season and our last one worked out quite well in the longer term.
Pienaar to leave after the WC..
Phil Neville statement before the season starts;
"We can get 4th and win trophies with this squad".
Bill Kenwright statement; "I'm still looking for a billionaire. My shares have always been for sale"
Moyes gets to spend half the Pienaar cash on a replacement also bring in a loan signing in late August.
Saha and Arteta pickup injuries. Everton have a poor start....
Phil Neville statement before the season starts;
"We can get 4th and win trophies with this squad".
Bill Kenwright statement; "I'm still looking for a billionaire. My shares have always been for sale"
Moyes gets to spend half the Pienaar cash on a replacement also bring in a loan signing in late August.
Saha and Arteta pickup injuries. Everton have a poor start....
Or perhaps we manage to keep the squad together and have a successful pre-season playing some decent sides instead of dodgy Major League ones and due to the lack of European football actually have a good season with relatively little injury worries. It might happen but lets have a go at the club/manager/chairman, that's more our style isn't it?
It's all Hibbert's fault anyway, everyone knows that!
It's all Hibbert's fault anyway, everyone knows that!
I think Phil's scenario is the most likely... In fact I can almost already see it!
Priorities whoever stays or goes should be Donovan (or similar RM), another creator as we rely to much still on Arteta & a striker.
O and getting rid of Distin would be better than a new signing!
Priorities whoever stays or goes should be Donovan (or similar RM), another creator as we rely to much still on Arteta & a striker.
O and getting rid of Distin would be better than a new signing!
Unfortunately James, I can foresee it too but I am ever the optimist.
I detest the non-stop summer transfer speculation, tabloid bullshit and the forced, fake, excitement shoved down your throat by those smug fuckers on Sky Sports News. "Only 7 hours to go until the end of the transfer window and unconfirmed reports coming in that Jermaine Pennant has been spotted in a pie shop just round the corner from the DW stadium. Let's go over there live now".
I'm probably just pissed off because every year we're linked with players we clearly can't afford and people actually believe it's going to happen! Riquelme. Vagner Love. Moutinho. Steven Defour. Van Der Vaart. Fantasy land.
I think Evertonians have twigged now that it's safer to enter this time of year with nothing but pure pessimism. I would honestly love to get that feeling back from when I was younger, that sense of anticipation and genuine excitement about seeing a new signing in action, but it's not going to happen. I'm now struggling to remember the last signing that i was actually excited about in the slightest. It was probably way back when Big Joe signed Andrei Kanchelskis from Man Utd. Getting Jermaine Beckford on a free transfer from Leeds doesn't get the blood flowing in the same way somehow does it?
I'm probably just pissed off because every year we're linked with players we clearly can't afford and people actually believe it's going to happen! Riquelme. Vagner Love. Moutinho. Steven Defour. Van Der Vaart. Fantasy land.
I think Evertonians have twigged now that it's safer to enter this time of year with nothing but pure pessimism. I would honestly love to get that feeling back from when I was younger, that sense of anticipation and genuine excitement about seeing a new signing in action, but it's not going to happen. I'm now struggling to remember the last signing that i was actually excited about in the slightest. It was probably way back when Big Joe signed Andrei Kanchelskis from Man Utd. Getting Jermaine Beckford on a free transfer from Leeds doesn't get the blood flowing in the same way somehow does it?
And to think Moyes gets criticized for being negative! Some of our owns fans have wrote the season off before its even started.
Personally, I think we will be a force to be reckoned with next season. All the elements are there for all to see. We have a good squad, capable of playing good football.
But lets come back to Pienaar, who looks to be on his way. In Pienaars best season, he has notched 4 goals with 4 assists. Tim Cahill has had a poor season by his standards, and managed 8 goals and 4 assists. Bily has put 5 in despite starting 13 matches less than Pienaar. Pienaar is without doubt much easier on the eye than the players mentioned. He has quick feet, and can turn like lightning. But as for being effective, how good is he? Admittedly, I dont want to see him leave. But for 15 million, I expect Moyes could find a more effective and younger player.
Personally, I think we will be a force to be reckoned with next season. All the elements are there for all to see. We have a good squad, capable of playing good football.
But lets come back to Pienaar, who looks to be on his way. In Pienaars best season, he has notched 4 goals with 4 assists. Tim Cahill has had a poor season by his standards, and managed 8 goals and 4 assists. Bily has put 5 in despite starting 13 matches less than Pienaar. Pienaar is without doubt much easier on the eye than the players mentioned. He has quick feet, and can turn like lightning. But as for being effective, how good is he? Admittedly, I dont want to see him leave. But for 15 million, I expect Moyes could find a more effective and younger player.
Haha ossie was last season's new signing
Expect blue bill to sign a fantastic new tea lady followed by a new sweeper for the car park!!!!!
Wot about all these players on free transfers???
Hitzelburger (formely off villa), beckford (seems to have gone down pan with the Leeds title push)
Joe Ledley?
Joe Cole?
Muncha (The New Keeper)
Andy Carrol (Not on a free, but maybe?) and ?????????/ Your thoughts my fellow blues??
Wot about all these players on free transfers???
Hitzelburger (formely off villa), beckford (seems to have gone down pan with the Leeds title push)
Joe Ledley?
Joe Cole?
Muncha (The New Keeper)
Andy Carrol (Not on a free, but maybe?) and ?????????/ Your thoughts my fellow blues??
dan - And to think Moyes gets criticized for being negative! Some of our owns fans have wrote the season off before its even started.
Dan perhaps the reason we fail season on season in europe is because we aren't good enough. The only way we ever will be is by bringing in quality players, that cant be afforded because we allowed the board to fuck our club up over success decades, while we sat there apathetic.
To win things takes investment, the type of investment we are promised every year by our own club who fail year on year to deliver anything. We'd have money if people actually cared about the state of our club, because it would have been sold by now. You have to take a risk of face backwards momentum that will eventually take us down.
Dan perhaps the reason we fail season on season in europe is because we aren't good enough. The only way we ever will be is by bringing in quality players, that cant be afforded because we allowed the board to fuck our club up over success decades, while we sat there apathetic.
To win things takes investment, the type of investment we are promised every year by our own club who fail year on year to deliver anything. We'd have money if people actually cared about the state of our club, because it would have been sold by now. You have to take a risk of face backwards momentum that will eventually take us down.
It's April now, we should know who we want and what we can afford, and be working on the transfers RIGHT NOW, not waiting til August. Unfortunately, this doesn't happen, and I don't know why not. Maybe if you play your hand this early you look too keen and the price goes up. We need a bigger first team squad, and we can only do this with cheap, clever signings or free transfers.
Our best signings follow a similar pattern; promising young player hits problem and career stalls, Everton pick him and Moyes gets the best out him. See Arteta, Pienaar, Saha (maybe not young), Heitinga, perhaps Jagielka (relegation being the problem) even Howard can fit into this category in a way. We need to look at guys who've shown talent but have lost their way a little, and will be cheap. Bentley, Eagles and K.P. Boateng are my initial suggestions. Dare I say even Manuel Fernandes (cracking own goal last week). Joe Cole would be fantastic but I suspect he'll be able to pick his club and for about £100k a week too.
What we can't afford to do is pretend to be signing Moutinho for £20M when its never gonna happen, raising expectations and heightening frustration when the inevitable comes to pass.
Keep your expectations low if you want stay sane.
Our best signings follow a similar pattern; promising young player hits problem and career stalls, Everton pick him and Moyes gets the best out him. See Arteta, Pienaar, Saha (maybe not young), Heitinga, perhaps Jagielka (relegation being the problem) even Howard can fit into this category in a way. We need to look at guys who've shown talent but have lost their way a little, and will be cheap. Bentley, Eagles and K.P. Boateng are my initial suggestions. Dare I say even Manuel Fernandes (cracking own goal last week). Joe Cole would be fantastic but I suspect he'll be able to pick his club and for about £100k a week too.
What we can't afford to do is pretend to be signing Moutinho for £20M when its never gonna happen, raising expectations and heightening frustration when the inevitable comes to pass.
Keep your expectations low if you want stay sane.
Dan, I assume you've been going into hibernation during the summer months over the last few years?
Either that or you just neglected to witness our abject failure to provide Moyes with transfer funds to build our squad.
It's a massive shame that we have the best squad for a generation but. We even play great football sometimes. Yet we just lack 2-3 more quality players to put us right up there.
However summer after summer, we take one step back. Then spend the second half of the season playing catch-up.
I wish I'm wrong about this year, and we tie down Pienaar and Rodders. Then Moyes offloads Yobo and Vaughan and brings in a top striker and RM. But history dictates we'll get spun a yarn about xxxx being a new signing and miss out on all first choice targets through a lack of funds.
Tell me i'm wrong and this year will be different (please)!
Either that or you just neglected to witness our abject failure to provide Moyes with transfer funds to build our squad.
It's a massive shame that we have the best squad for a generation but. We even play great football sometimes. Yet we just lack 2-3 more quality players to put us right up there.
However summer after summer, we take one step back. Then spend the second half of the season playing catch-up.
I wish I'm wrong about this year, and we tie down Pienaar and Rodders. Then Moyes offloads Yobo and Vaughan and brings in a top striker and RM. But history dictates we'll get spun a yarn about xxxx being a new signing and miss out on all first choice targets through a lack of funds.
Tell me i'm wrong and this year will be different (please)!
Phil Martin - when you accuse others of "talking this great club down", does it ever occur to you to read your own posts. Or do you just not understand hypocrisy?
We can all use that one like some of the TW posters: "Kenwright fault"; "Kirkby was a shed"; "Kenwright blocking investment"; "EFC are still a big club"...
The transfer market is a minefield and unless people understand that we have to whenever possible get the best deal our limited budget can offer, that sadly means we may have to wait until the players works the market or waits for a better offer and tries and pushes us for more money either way its our predicament that puts us at the back of the queue. COYB
Phil you're absolutely right.
I cringe when I think of how Moyes has got us to within a shout of the top 4 season after season and then not only do we fail to build on that in the close season but we sell players off.
The quality of the squad has improved but numbers have certainly reduced over the last few years which is why we perform so badly when we get hit with injuries.
The argument is "Black Bill" has provided some stability but standing still is not an option and that's all stability means.
We have mortgaged or sold off all our assets and gone from a net asset position to a net liability under Kenwright but hey it's stability.
When will the penny drop!!
Nothing but the best (NSNO) does not just mean the first 11 it means the whole club!!
I cringe when I think of how Moyes has got us to within a shout of the top 4 season after season and then not only do we fail to build on that in the close season but we sell players off.
The quality of the squad has improved but numbers have certainly reduced over the last few years which is why we perform so badly when we get hit with injuries.
The argument is "Black Bill" has provided some stability but standing still is not an option and that's all stability means.
We have mortgaged or sold off all our assets and gone from a net asset position to a net liability under Kenwright but hey it's stability.
When will the penny drop!!
Nothing but the best (NSNO) does not just mean the first 11 it means the whole club!!
Phil Martin, just look at the funds David Moyes has been provided in relation to Walter Smith. Chris, an excellent post. What goes on every summer at Everton is appalling. I really think it's time for David Moyes to break up the double act with Bill Kenwright.
Do what must be done early and let's not have another summer of worthless speculation. Moyes is in a strong position and he must exploit it.
DM isn't the only manager who will come out with these soundbites and Everton aren't the only team who will have loads of speculation and rumours.
If the club say nothing at all then people moan... You just can't please some people.
If the club say nothing at all then people moan... You just can't please some people.
Sell Pienaar? Noooooooooooo, we must do everything in our power to keep him.
We wait an eternity for a team that plays nice flowing football and no sooner do we get one and you want to sell the guy mainly responsible for it.
I`ve got a better idea, lets keep a hoofball score between now and the end of the season and fuck the worst offender off as far as we can and for as much as we can get for him.
We wait an eternity for a team that plays nice flowing football and no sooner do we get one and you want to sell the guy mainly responsible for it.
I`ve got a better idea, lets keep a hoofball score between now and the end of the season and fuck the worst offender off as far as we can and for as much as we can get for him.
After the last two summers I am going to ignore all things Everton until September and then see what the state of play is. The speculation, wailing and teeth gnashing is unbearable. Self-preservation!
Alan Kirwin,
If you bothered to read my post, you'd read the words "best squad for a generation". I'm merely restating events from the last 2-3 summers. No "talking this great club down".
Tell me I'm wrong and that this summer, Moyes will get the funding and time to get the 2-3 players we need (without selling key players) to push on. Our great club deserves better!
If you bothered to read my post, you'd read the words "best squad for a generation". I'm merely restating events from the last 2-3 summers. No "talking this great club down".
Tell me I'm wrong and that this summer, Moyes will get the funding and time to get the 2-3 players we need (without selling key players) to push on. Our great club deserves better!
@ 12 Steven Smyth .. if you are referring to Thomas Hitzlsperger then I would gladly have him on a free. He could do a job on the left or centre of midfield and has a sweet left foot.
He played well while in Germany and was part of Klinsmann Germany team that for once played attractive football.
Having said all that if he was to move to England.. it would prolly be to Villa where he was a fan favourite and have stated where he wanted to return to.
He played well while in Germany and was part of Klinsmann Germany team that for once played attractive football.
Having said all that if he was to move to England.. it would prolly be to Villa where he was a fan favourite and have stated where he wanted to return to.
Any bullshit by BK and DM in media is to appease the fans' expectations - your expectations.
DM has been saying for the longest time the club has no money. Unless anyone has deep pockets or a brilliant idea to make 20 million pounds from now till summer, then face it - we cannot afford a big name signing.
DM has been saying for the longest time the club has no money. Unless anyone has deep pockets or a brilliant idea to make 20 million pounds from now till summer, then face it - we cannot afford a big name signing.
Well said Andy Morden, I'm burrying my head till September too. The last 2 summers heve been unbearable. For a couple of years now we have finished the season relatively strong, just enough to get the hopes up that one or two good signings early on would see us take the next step.
This squad is far from complete and we all know where it needs improving, but I'd rather not loose or sign nobody and have a good pre season then another summer that leaves frowns on all our faces, Moyes included.
This squad is far from complete and we all know where it needs improving, but I'd rather not loose or sign nobody and have a good pre season then another summer that leaves frowns on all our faces, Moyes included.
You don't need £15 million to sign a £15 million player.
Don't expect a good pre-season warm up for the team.
Some of them will be away at the World Cup and so will be knackered and come back late.
Some of them will be away at the World Cup and so will be knackered and come back late.
I know its hard to ignore everything Everton as a toffee fan but I'm at least going to attempt to avoid the torture of transfers this time.
Plan on watching the World Cup.
Plan on watching the World Cup.
Dan Brierley (and others),
I don't understand how the subject of the post is negative. The writing style maybe...
Last season we were linked with a lot of players, put bids in for Naughton et al to be gazumped by Spurs (rumour was that Sheff U wanted money up front).
We then have the Lescott saga. Chief Exec says words to the effect of "We spent what we got for Lescott, and a bit more". Our Manager then responds and says "We only spent the Lescott money".
So, in other words, no "new" money invested in the team.
So why should this close season be any different exactly?
I don't understand how the subject of the post is negative. The writing style maybe...
Last season we were linked with a lot of players, put bids in for Naughton et al to be gazumped by Spurs (rumour was that Sheff U wanted money up front).
We then have the Lescott saga. Chief Exec says words to the effect of "We spent what we got for Lescott, and a bit more". Our Manager then responds and says "We only spent the Lescott money".
So, in other words, no "new" money invested in the team.
So why should this close season be any different exactly?
Expectation trampled into the dirt...
It's not the fact that we're skint that annoys me the most... but the underhand way in which our chairman slimes his way through every summer.
It's not the fact that we're skint that annoys me the most... but the underhand way in which our chairman slimes his way through every summer.
Keeping hold of Pienaar is a must but unfortunately out of our hands now and unlikely.
Dan, I think Pienaar's stats are misleading to be honest — afterall, an assist is given to the last person to touch the ball before the goalscorer, that's all. Pienaar is involved on most of our goals and the way he retains possession, passes and moves, and creates space for others is one of the main reasons for the improvement in our style of play.
This season has proved that we can somehow get by without one of Arteta and Pienaar in the team but when we take them both out we have basically zero creative ability.
Personally, I would be made up if we could just secure the services of Pienaar and sign Donavan. Add to that a couple of free transfers (Beckford and Ledley) and I think we would be in really good shape for the start of the season. Can we even manage that though?
Dan, I think Pienaar's stats are misleading to be honest — afterall, an assist is given to the last person to touch the ball before the goalscorer, that's all. Pienaar is involved on most of our goals and the way he retains possession, passes and moves, and creates space for others is one of the main reasons for the improvement in our style of play.
This season has proved that we can somehow get by without one of Arteta and Pienaar in the team but when we take them both out we have basically zero creative ability.
Personally, I would be made up if we could just secure the services of Pienaar and sign Donavan. Add to that a couple of free transfers (Beckford and Ledley) and I think we would be in really good shape for the start of the season. Can we even manage that though?
Beckford will add nothing to our team... We will not be signing Donovan either.
Although I'd hate to lose Pienaar, it wouldn't annoy me as much as losing Jack, Arteta or Fellaini...
Pienaar is a huge influence on our passing game... but he is inconsistent — and the fact that he's let his contract run down doesn't exactly endear him to the club.
Although I'd hate to lose Pienaar, it wouldn't annoy me as much as losing Jack, Arteta or Fellaini...
Pienaar is a huge influence on our passing game... but he is inconsistent — and the fact that he's let his contract run down doesn't exactly endear him to the club.
I think you have to consider what Pienaar gives to the games he plays in; a lot of moving and passing and creativity. Just ask most Man U fans if they think losing Tevez was a great idea, his goal stats weren't great but I've not seen many players that cover so much of the pitch or give so much in a game of football.
We all know what's coming this summer, sell a player or players if we are to get anyone in. Neither Beckford or Ledley would be any better than what we already have.
We all know what's coming this summer, sell a player or players if we are to get anyone in. Neither Beckford or Ledley would be any better than what we already have.
David Moyes: "It won't happen again!", and it did happen again and its cost us Europe! Well done Moyesy and Kenwright!
Ciaran,
I do not know if either Beckford or Ledley would add anything to our squad - just as I did not know whether Cahill, Lescott, Gosling and to a lesser extent Jagielka would add.
The point I was trying to make was that the only addition we need to deperately make to our 'first team' is the addition of Donavan and the retention of Pienaar — this is not a massive outlay — I would say less than £10m. If we can do that then we only need a couple of 'squad fillers' and as both Beckford and Ledley are free whats the gamble? There is nothing to suggest that Moyes would not turn one or both of them into the next Cahill / Lescott just as there is nothing ton say he will. If they are not up to it then we sell them to a lower league side probably for a profit!
That's not a gamble.
Also, you say there is no chance we will sign Donavan — how do you know? The only peole who know if he will be signed are Moyes and Kenwright and they are hardly going to broadcast it, are they? I believe he is a realistic possibility.
I do not know if either Beckford or Ledley would add anything to our squad - just as I did not know whether Cahill, Lescott, Gosling and to a lesser extent Jagielka would add.
The point I was trying to make was that the only addition we need to deperately make to our 'first team' is the addition of Donavan and the retention of Pienaar — this is not a massive outlay — I would say less than £10m. If we can do that then we only need a couple of 'squad fillers' and as both Beckford and Ledley are free whats the gamble? There is nothing to suggest that Moyes would not turn one or both of them into the next Cahill / Lescott just as there is nothing ton say he will. If they are not up to it then we sell them to a lower league side probably for a profit!
That's not a gamble.
Also, you say there is no chance we will sign Donavan — how do you know? The only peole who know if he will be signed are Moyes and Kenwright and they are hardly going to broadcast it, are they? I believe he is a realistic possibility.
Mike, if Donovan is going to cost a lot I think it might be worthwhile looking at someone younger who would still be valuable in a few years, who the club could profit off. I like Donovan but he is 28 and £10 million is a lot for Everton to pay for a player we are likely to get next to nothing back for in a few years?
Mike is spot on, we are a great option for players who have lost their way a little.... Arteta, Pienaar, Saha the list goes on.
Not players like Joe Cole who can pick and choose where he wants to play.
Not players like Joe Cole who can pick and choose where he wants to play.
Pienaar is a very good player no doubt we are a better team with him in it. He has let his contract run down though purely to not price himself out of one last big move. I agree hardly endearing after Efc saved his career.
Disagree entirely with some view on Beckford - I think he's superb. I recall Ciaran saying Heitinga was pants and telling us Billy was exceptional. I know nothing of Ledley.
I think it's vital that we keep Piennar. Some fans already on his back for not signing a new contract — if I was in his position I'd wait until after World cup and consider my options. He's simply trying to get the best deal he can.
I do fear the noises now coming out — we will offer him top wages now to try and keep him etc etc — why not do this in August last year? I am not critical of Piennar at all, he is one of our top performers.
Hopefully, the noises coming out of both camps are brinkmanship but I am concerned.
I think it's vital that we keep Piennar. Some fans already on his back for not signing a new contract — if I was in his position I'd wait until after World cup and consider my options. He's simply trying to get the best deal he can.
I do fear the noises now coming out — we will offer him top wages now to try and keep him etc etc — why not do this in August last year? I am not critical of Piennar at all, he is one of our top performers.
Hopefully, the noises coming out of both camps are brinkmanship but I am concerned.
"Disagree entirely with some view on Beckford — I think he's superb. I recall Ciaran saying Heitinga was pants and telling us Bily was exceptional. I know nothing of Ledley."
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Heitinga was pants in Spain... and Bily is a very skilfull player who will fit in once played in his proper position.
Beckford is a striker who is no better than Vaughan. He will be behind Saha and the Yak in pecking order and will add very little to our approach to next season... If we were taking Eduardo (who is rumoured to be getting thrown out of Highbury) then I'd be of a different opinion...
Beckford is simply nothing special in my book.
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Heitinga was pants in Spain... and Bily is a very skilfull player who will fit in once played in his proper position.
Beckford is a striker who is no better than Vaughan. He will be behind Saha and the Yak in pecking order and will add very little to our approach to next season... If we were taking Eduardo (who is rumoured to be getting thrown out of Highbury) then I'd be of a different opinion...
Beckford is simply nothing special in my book.
Donovan may cost £10 million, but that could be for nothing if we played our cards right and exploited the potential in USA. I doubt we would as marketing is hardly the clubs strong point. I think its clear Donovan wants to play for us as anyone who has added him on Facebook will see he still constantly talks about us. In my opinion he is a must signing and a great lad.
Anthony, agree with you to an extent although I was not suggesting that he would cost £10M — I was meaning that figure should be enough to get Donavan and top up Pienaar's wages to keep him — all guesswork I admit.
i agree regarding his game but what I liked about Donavan was how easily he fitted into our style of play — he has pace, he can control and pass, he moves off the ball and importantly for Everton, he works his socks off — to me he is the perfect stereotype of the right sided player we require and if that means paying a few pounds extra then I believe its worth it.
Kevy also makes a very pertinent point regarding marketing possibilities if we signed him.
Ciaran, I still don't see how you can say Beckford would be rubbish —0 I agree I can't say he will be any good, but on a free transfer what's the gamble?
And you say he is another Vaughan — well what's so bad about that? Vaughan's problem is that he is always injured not that he is a bad player although I agree he has not progressed as he should, because of his injuries.
i agree regarding his game but what I liked about Donavan was how easily he fitted into our style of play — he has pace, he can control and pass, he moves off the ball and importantly for Everton, he works his socks off — to me he is the perfect stereotype of the right sided player we require and if that means paying a few pounds extra then I believe its worth it.
Kevy also makes a very pertinent point regarding marketing possibilities if we signed him.
Ciaran, I still don't see how you can say Beckford would be rubbish —0 I agree I can't say he will be any good, but on a free transfer what's the gamble?
And you say he is another Vaughan — well what's so bad about that? Vaughan's problem is that he is always injured not that he is a bad player although I agree he has not progressed as he should, because of his injuries.
I didn't say he'd be rubbish Mike...I said he'd add little to our team. Quite different.
Free transfers still get paid.
I simply think the right side is the clear priority...until that's sorted anything else should be sidelined..and finances dictate that there probably won't be much to go on other positions anyway.
Free transfers still get paid.
I simply think the right side is the clear priority...until that's sorted anything else should be sidelined..and finances dictate that there probably won't be much to go on other positions anyway.
Fukin 'el ladies! Chill out a bit! The summer has barely started and you already are baying for blood! The sun is shining, the birds are singing, the flowers are blooming and the RS have to travel 1200 miles to get battered in Madrid! What else do you want?!
Give the manager some breathing space and let things happen. Moyes doesn't go out of his way to piss you all off. He's just doing what he feels is best under the current (financial) condition of the club.
If we hold on to Peanuts then great. If Moyes has to break the bank to do so which means less money for transfers elsewhere then fine by me as we need Pianaar to stay (proven quality). However if Pianaar is absolutely determined to go (like Lescott was) then let him go as soon as the issue arises as we do NOT want another fuked up pre-season like the last one due to the manager digging his heels in.
Accept the fact that some of our top players will be targeted. Some will resist the lure of supposed better things elsewhere but some won't. That's life. Deal with it and move on. Just make sure (Moyes) that we get good value and sound replacements where necessary.
Give the manager some breathing space and let things happen. Moyes doesn't go out of his way to piss you all off. He's just doing what he feels is best under the current (financial) condition of the club.
If we hold on to Peanuts then great. If Moyes has to break the bank to do so which means less money for transfers elsewhere then fine by me as we need Pianaar to stay (proven quality). However if Pianaar is absolutely determined to go (like Lescott was) then let him go as soon as the issue arises as we do NOT want another fuked up pre-season like the last one due to the manager digging his heels in.
Accept the fact that some of our top players will be targeted. Some will resist the lure of supposed better things elsewhere but some won't. That's life. Deal with it and move on. Just make sure (Moyes) that we get good value and sound replacements where necessary.
Sound advice Matt.
But I'm afraid we can't help get a little histrionic this time of year...
But I'm afraid we can't help get a little histrionic this time of year...
Living in Leeds I have seen Beckford play a hell of a lot.
Firstly it could be a good deal but its a risky one. He is a sulk with questionable attitude. He does have quality though and I have no doubt if he wants it enough he could do quite well in the premiership. He is certainly better than Vaughn but he's no at Yakubu/Saha standard. I would say he is more consistent than either of them though!
Firstly it could be a good deal but its a risky one. He is a sulk with questionable attitude. He does have quality though and I have no doubt if he wants it enough he could do quite well in the premiership. He is certainly better than Vaughn but he's no at Yakubu/Saha standard. I would say he is more consistent than either of them though!
Beckford is certainly better than Vaughan? I'm not sure about that!
Fair enough Ciaran. I agree totally that the right hand side is the priority but free transfers need to be sorted out fairly quickly too or others will get them.
I also agree that they do need wages, thats a fair point. i still think for nothing (apart from wages !!) its a no lose gamble on both Beckford and Ledley.
I also agree that they do need wages, thats a fair point. i still think for nothing (apart from wages !!) its a no lose gamble on both Beckford and Ledley.
Fair enough Mike ... and by the way...I actually think Ledley will become a decent premiership player...
So he'd definitely be worth the gamble..or no gamble as the case may be..
So he'd definitely be worth the gamble..or no gamble as the case may be..
Well Anthony I am one of the few people on here who thinks Vaughan should have been got rid of years ago. I simply don't rate him at all. A headless chicken with no finesse. So saying Beckford is better isn't that much of a compliment. Beckford will have something to prove though so I see it as a gamble worth taking.
Mike Elbey,
If we were a club ran like a commerically professional organisation. We could recoup some of the revenue on Donovan. But we aren't! We're ran like a second butchers. Why be inventive and create more revenue streams when you can rehash the "Best of 1984 Season" DVD?
Which leads me on to...
Matthew Mackay,
No one is really having a go at Moyes. We're empathising with the expectation (he's brought to the club) that we should get better every year. But with less and less money spent every year.
Billy ran out of friends to borrow from, so now we shop on freebies from the lower leagues. I'm not saying this is always bad but it certainly limits your chances of success when your peers are buying established quality.
If we were a club ran like a commerically professional organisation. We could recoup some of the revenue on Donovan. But we aren't! We're ran like a second butchers. Why be inventive and create more revenue streams when you can rehash the "Best of 1984 Season" DVD?
Which leads me on to...
Matthew Mackay,
No one is really having a go at Moyes. We're empathising with the expectation (he's brought to the club) that we should get better every year. But with less and less money spent every year.
Billy ran out of friends to borrow from, so now we shop on freebies from the lower leagues. I'm not saying this is always bad but it certainly limits your chances of success when your peers are buying established quality.
Phil Martin - whats wrong with bringing out a dvd of the 84/85 season - there has never been anything produced on that season before so personally I think its a good idea and will definately be purchasing one.
Regarding the way we are run, its funny how many people within the game, people who I am sure know more about the ins and outs of proffessional football than me or you, seem to want to use us as a model of how to run a club - why is that ?
The problem we have is not the way we run the club - ie only spend what the bank will allow us / what we can raise, its that we constantly lie to the supporters with comments like 'watch this space' and 'wow' and 'Icant believe how good the players are until I see them'. If we were just told the truth it would be a lot easier to contemplate.
There are obviously quite a few clubs that would evidently like to be run 'like a second rate butcher'. Thats not saying things couldnt be improved, I just dont accept we are as badly run as what you infer.
Regarding the way we are run, its funny how many people within the game, people who I am sure know more about the ins and outs of proffessional football than me or you, seem to want to use us as a model of how to run a club - why is that ?
The problem we have is not the way we run the club - ie only spend what the bank will allow us / what we can raise, its that we constantly lie to the supporters with comments like 'watch this space' and 'wow' and 'Icant believe how good the players are until I see them'. If we were just told the truth it would be a lot easier to contemplate.
There are obviously quite a few clubs that would evidently like to be run 'like a second rate butcher'. Thats not saying things couldnt be improved, I just dont accept we are as badly run as what you infer.
Mike, I think you missed an important word in my post-commercial! No-one wants to model themselves on us commercially.
They may admire how Moyes recruits cheap players and makes them better. And gets the best out of every player.
But nobody else thinks commercially we have it right. Compare our revenue to other clubs with a 30-40+ thousand capacity stadia and we trail them by a long way. Disregarding any Champions League money too we are miles behind.
On the pitch, we punch way above our weight. Commercially, we are in the same league as the likes of Bolton
Phil, I am not saying that our commercial operations cannot be improved but to equate the running of our club to that of a second rate butcher I believe is unfair.
There are a couple of major commercial activities that severely hamper our ability to compete with other clubs of similar size.
1. Our supporters are not the type to go out and buy everything that is blue and white. If you go across the park you would struggle to find a shite supporter not decked out head to toe in red. The same applies to most other supporters at other clubs. If you go to Goodison most supporters just turn up wearing normal casual gear. Its a fact, we just sell less merchandise than other clubs. Whose fault is that and how would you propose this is changed?
2. Our ticket prices are amongst the lowest in the country. I got a season ticket in the Top Balcony for me and my son and it cost less than £750. A Liverpool friend of mine (sorry) has just got his season ticket for the Kop which cost the same as my two tickets. We rely on local support largely and also many younger supporters. If these prices were increased then the numbers able to buy the tickets would drastically reduce. Again, this is a major source of income at a football club and ours is lower than other comparable clubs but I fail to see what we are doing wrong.
These are just two points. As I say I am not saying things could not be improved but we are what we are. We generally treat our supporters well and dont try and fleece them all the time. The consequence of this is we dont have as much money.
There are a couple of major commercial activities that severely hamper our ability to compete with other clubs of similar size.
1. Our supporters are not the type to go out and buy everything that is blue and white. If you go across the park you would struggle to find a shite supporter not decked out head to toe in red. The same applies to most other supporters at other clubs. If you go to Goodison most supporters just turn up wearing normal casual gear. Its a fact, we just sell less merchandise than other clubs. Whose fault is that and how would you propose this is changed?
2. Our ticket prices are amongst the lowest in the country. I got a season ticket in the Top Balcony for me and my son and it cost less than £750. A Liverpool friend of mine (sorry) has just got his season ticket for the Kop which cost the same as my two tickets. We rely on local support largely and also many younger supporters. If these prices were increased then the numbers able to buy the tickets would drastically reduce. Again, this is a major source of income at a football club and ours is lower than other comparable clubs but I fail to see what we are doing wrong.
These are just two points. As I say I am not saying things could not be improved but we are what we are. We generally treat our supporters well and dont try and fleece them all the time. The consequence of this is we dont have as much money.
Mike,
Granted low season ticket prices are a factor. But when so many of our seats are below par- for a variety of reasons. I think we would have a hard time justifying higher prices. Certainly a total refurb of GP would allow us to attract greater crowds and slightly increase ticket prices. Although German clubs have extremely cheap tickets, and hence fill massive new stadiums.
The whole thing about us lot just not being merchandise buying fans, I don't really agree with. If there was a better range of quality stuff especially for kids. We could make a lot more.
I also don't understand why we don't give away tickets to local schools&charities for our less popular fixtures. Rather than have 4000 seats. Surely if every kid who gets a free ticket spends a fiver on food/drink we could make some extra cash.
But our lack of corporate facilities, restaurants,bistros etc are were we really fall behind. A tent at the park end is slightly tragic. We should also be looking to do more to build our name abroad-too many avenues to mention.
Our pathetic (compared to the top7) sponsorship and merchandise deals are also a joke. £30m over 10 years isn't great when you factor in inflation.
Granted low season ticket prices are a factor. But when so many of our seats are below par- for a variety of reasons. I think we would have a hard time justifying higher prices. Certainly a total refurb of GP would allow us to attract greater crowds and slightly increase ticket prices. Although German clubs have extremely cheap tickets, and hence fill massive new stadiums.
The whole thing about us lot just not being merchandise buying fans, I don't really agree with. If there was a better range of quality stuff especially for kids. We could make a lot more.
I also don't understand why we don't give away tickets to local schools&charities for our less popular fixtures. Rather than have 4000 seats. Surely if every kid who gets a free ticket spends a fiver on food/drink we could make some extra cash.
But our lack of corporate facilities, restaurants,bistros etc are were we really fall behind. A tent at the park end is slightly tragic. We should also be looking to do more to build our name abroad-too many avenues to mention.
Our pathetic (compared to the top7) sponsorship and merchandise deals are also a joke. £30m over 10 years isn't great when you factor in inflation.
Phil, as I say I accept that we could be commercially better. I just dont think it is fair to say we are run like a second rate butcher.
The problem is for some reason we do just not seem to be attractive to people commercially. Why this is with our history in English football I dont know. I am not sure we can lay all the blame for this at the feet of the current board.
We will have to agree to differ on the merchandise argument - I believe we have done a lot to improve this area and there are very few things that people would want to buy that are not available. We have two shops and a soffisticated on-line shop available.
We all know Goodison and the hospitality is a problem but again, is this really all the fault of the current board ?
Regarding tickets for schools I take your point but I would say that I know for a fact that tickets are distributed via Everton in the Community for certain games. Whether it is for all games I dont know.
As I say, I respect your comments re improving commercially, i just dont think we are a liability as your comments suggest.
The problem is for some reason we do just not seem to be attractive to people commercially. Why this is with our history in English football I dont know. I am not sure we can lay all the blame for this at the feet of the current board.
We will have to agree to differ on the merchandise argument - I believe we have done a lot to improve this area and there are very few things that people would want to buy that are not available. We have two shops and a soffisticated on-line shop available.
We all know Goodison and the hospitality is a problem but again, is this really all the fault of the current board ?
Regarding tickets for schools I take your point but I would say that I know for a fact that tickets are distributed via Everton in the Community for certain games. Whether it is for all games I dont know.
As I say, I respect your comments re improving commercially, i just dont think we are a liability as your comments suggest.
Will it not be Round 3 this year?
Can't see why promoting EFC in the US should be difficult at all. I was a little surprised that EFC wasn't trumpeting Donovan back to the States every chance.
Being over here where everything sports is looked at from the commercial angle, promoting Donovan's connection to EFC seemed obvious. Yet it didn't happen.
There's still time, of course. As been noted here by EFC fans living around the world, Americans they run into now know EFC since Moyes signed Donovan.
How about an aimed-at-America EFC site called New Everton? That's right, name all of soccer-America after EFC. Why not? The US is wide-open for a European team. Naturally, the top clubs in Europe are well-known in the States. Yet, none has made a concerted major push to make America its own.
Moyes pushed EFC into American soccer conciousness just by signing our only really well-known soccer player; Landon. So, EF Cshould lay claim to the whole place.
I'm not a promoter or promotional-type, but it seems to me that the 10 mil number thrown around here can be gotten over a relatively brief period of time in the States (remember, a sports-mad country) to off-set or finance the cost of Donovan and others.
There's a ton of money in the States for an EPL soccer franchise that signed and played Donovan. How hard can it be to take advantage of this to sell EFC merchandise?
Plus, soccer is also the #1 participation sports for little girls in America, not just the little boys. Girls know who Landon is. Oh, and he's getting divorced. Back on the market is he? Regarding Landon, you're not just talking about male followers of the game.
IF:
1. Landon does well in the WC.
2. LA Galaxy do well this season (Arena has them looking great so far. If Becks didn't blow a tire, I'd make Galaxy odds-on to take MLS this season).
3. The US doe as well as 2002 WC.
Then the skies the limit. Landon's fame will be at its peak. At that point the pilot will be turning off the "No Donovan going back to Everton discussion allowed" sign off. And he WANTS to come back. He wants to. And he's the one American who can do a little dictating and knows it.
There's money in all that. Good money. I'm saying EFC should start setting things up now.
New Everton says COYB
Being over here where everything sports is looked at from the commercial angle, promoting Donovan's connection to EFC seemed obvious. Yet it didn't happen.
There's still time, of course. As been noted here by EFC fans living around the world, Americans they run into now know EFC since Moyes signed Donovan.
How about an aimed-at-America EFC site called New Everton? That's right, name all of soccer-America after EFC. Why not? The US is wide-open for a European team. Naturally, the top clubs in Europe are well-known in the States. Yet, none has made a concerted major push to make America its own.
Moyes pushed EFC into American soccer conciousness just by signing our only really well-known soccer player; Landon. So, EF Cshould lay claim to the whole place.
I'm not a promoter or promotional-type, but it seems to me that the 10 mil number thrown around here can be gotten over a relatively brief period of time in the States (remember, a sports-mad country) to off-set or finance the cost of Donovan and others.
There's a ton of money in the States for an EPL soccer franchise that signed and played Donovan. How hard can it be to take advantage of this to sell EFC merchandise?
Plus, soccer is also the #1 participation sports for little girls in America, not just the little boys. Girls know who Landon is. Oh, and he's getting divorced. Back on the market is he? Regarding Landon, you're not just talking about male followers of the game.
IF:
1. Landon does well in the WC.
2. LA Galaxy do well this season (Arena has them looking great so far. If Becks didn't blow a tire, I'd make Galaxy odds-on to take MLS this season).
3. The US doe as well as 2002 WC.
Then the skies the limit. Landon's fame will be at its peak. At that point the pilot will be turning off the "No Donovan going back to Everton discussion allowed" sign off. And he WANTS to come back. He wants to. And he's the one American who can do a little dictating and knows it.
There's money in all that. Good money. I'm saying EFC should start setting things up now.
New Everton says COYB
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1 Posted 19/04/2010 at 14:29:30
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