ToffeeWeb - Season 2009-10

Ian Robb
1 Posted 22/04/2010 at 13:13:55

Know I'm clutching at straws here and would hate to see it happen... but... if the reds win Europa league and finish seventh does that mean extra Europa League place in league? As they would qualify next year as holders?

Tony J Williams
2 Posted 22/04/2010 at 13:13:48

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It makes no difference if they win, there will not be another spot, so it's a huge NO from me.

Mark Hill
3 Posted 22/04/2010 at 13:14:54

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Yes it does, Ian, just see that very confirmation on BBC Football — they have the story about Portsmouth not being allowed into the European Competition next year.

Alan Williams
4 Posted 22/04/2010 at 13:17:15

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No, No, No... I want Fulham to win it. Happy to have a year off, COYB

John Beesley
5 Posted 22/04/2010 at 13:22:58

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Let's see... do I want reds telling me we're in Europe because of them??? .....that's quite apart from the fact I could never support them in any game anywhere.

I think that's a catergorical NO.

Adam Carey
6 Posted 22/04/2010 at 13:18:59

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England won't gain another Europa spot. Fulham would knock the last placed league qualifier out of the competition, and Liverpool would take up the place they may already have earnt.

Thankfully, Liverpool are out of the CL, but had they won it this year and finished where they are now, 4th place would be demoted.

Adam Carey
7 Posted 22/04/2010 at 13:25:25

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...and the same would apply to the Europa league/cup/thing!

David Wharton
8 Posted 22/04/2010 at 13:26:17

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Best scenario is Fulham winning it, Liverpool finishing 7th and losing their place to Fulham :) As Adam said, no extra places, the winners take a place assigned to the league.

Helikaon Bow
9 Posted 22/04/2010 at 13:28:51

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So can someone provide proof that we cannot qualify for europa league from 8th place if liverpool win it?

Andrew Ellams
10 Posted 22/04/2010 at 13:38:41

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If Liverpool finish seventh and win Europa League, there European place gained via their league placing defaults to 8th as per this link.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/p/portsmouth/8558580.stm

Nick Entwistle
11 Posted 22/04/2010 at 13:39:33

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They like to kick Portsmouth when they're down don't they.

So long as Liverpool end up with nothing this season, including Euro qualification, I'll be happy.

Sam Hoare
12 Posted 22/04/2010 at 13:39:37

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From BBC

'Liverpool are currently in seventh place in the Premier League, but could conceivably win the competition this season, automatically qualifying for next year.

If they do win the trophy this year, then rivals Everton, who are eighth in the table, would benefit with a European slot.'

Whilst i agree with John Beesley at least we can temper any gloating liverpool fans thanking them for the unintended help.

Martin Clark
13 Posted 22/04/2010 at 13:35:39

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Is the fair play league still an option? Heard it mentioned a while ago but would take it if we could. Didn't City qualify last year with it as they were in the Europa League and finished tenth in the league.

Would be nice, just have to instruct Mikel to stop poking eyes!

Damian Scott
14 Posted 22/04/2010 at 14:04:18

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Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that BBC article about 8th place getting a spot is correct if Liverpool win it...

I remember reading somewhere that it goes to some other country, i.e. if that country has one spot entry into Europa league in the 3rd qualifying round, it would bump them into the first round proper...

I'll take a look to see if I can find it...

Shaun Brennan
15 Posted 22/04/2010 at 14:11:28

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No way!!

I'm hoping Atletico win it. That way Torres should have stayed at them if he wanted to win things.

Damian Scott
16 Posted 22/04/2010 at 14:15:35

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This is from wikipedia about the current season of the Europa League 2009/2010:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009%E2%80%9310_UEFA_Europa_League

"If the Europa League title holders also qualify for the Champions League or the Europa League through domestic performance, their vacated place in the Europa League is not taken by any team. "

It could be changed for next season's Europa League though...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010%E2%80%9311_UEFA_Europa_League

"If they qualify for any stage of the Champions League however, they will lose all entitlement to this place"

doesn't mention anything about them winning Europa League and already qualifying via league spot....

Brendan O'Doherty
17 Posted 22/04/2010 at 14:15:43

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There are many media outlets today stating that if the RS win it, we will get in by finishing 8th. What a dilemma - Hobson's choice. Does anyone know for absolute certainty what the correct position is? Preferably before 8.05 this evening.

Colin Gee
18 Posted 22/04/2010 at 14:19:18

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The BBC are wrong, the three Europa League places go to the teams that finish in 5th, 6th and 7th place in the Premier League, even if the shite win it, the team that finishes 8th wouldn't get a place. This site tells you everything you need to know:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/

Peter Anthony
19 Posted 22/04/2010 at 14:02:23

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http://www.evertonfc.com/news/archive/2010/04/22/no-europe-for-pompey

No extra place in league should the shite fluke another trophy this year..

(According to official everton site as above (last sentence).

Anthony Millington
20 Posted 22/04/2010 at 14:33:36

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I think Uefa are waiting to see who finishes 8th before making a decision. They only like making new rules to suit Liverpool! Why don't Everton ask Uefa to clarify it!

Helikaon Bow
21 Posted 22/04/2010 at 14:35:45

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Well if liverpool win it and 8th gets a spot I want liverpool to win the europa league.

Everton are the only team I care about so us qualifiying for europe is all I care about. I don't give two shits about another liverpool trophy

Damian Scott
22 Posted 22/04/2010 at 14:38:03

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From Bert's great site:

"The title-holder qualifies directly for the group stage of the Europa League. If the title holder already qualified for a qualifying round of the Europa League the total number of teams of that association does not change. The title holder spot in the Europa League is not used if the title holder qualified for the Champions League. The unused title holder spot and other empty spots are filled in the Europa League with priority for cup winners."

Phil Guyers
23 Posted 22/04/2010 at 14:50:45

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This is the relevant competition regulation from uefa.com:-

'Unless the UEFA Cup titleholder qualifies for the UEFA Champions League through its domestic championship, it is guaranteed a place in the group stage of the UEFA Europa League.

If the titleholder does qualify for the UEFA Europa League through its domestic competitions, the number of places to which its national association is entitled in the UEFA Europa League does not change.

If the UEFA Cup titleholder does not qualify for either the UEFA Champions League or UEFA Europa League through its domestic competitions, its participation in the UEFA Europa League is not at the expense of the contingent of its association'

From this it is clear that 8th place does NOT qualify if Liverpool win the Europa League. On the other hand, if we finish 7th and Liverpool 8th, they can not take our place by winning this year's competition.

Ciarán McGlone
24 Posted 22/04/2010 at 15:15:43

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Er... let's not.

If we don't get into Europe, it's hardly the end of the world.

Tony McNulty
25 Posted 22/04/2010 at 15:15:00

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Yesterday we had a thread wherein someone was suggesting merging with them. Today people are asking if we should support them.

I am having my computer checked for the Creeping Shite virus – one of the worst known to man.

Derek Turnbull
26 Posted 22/04/2010 at 15:15:46

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Whether we support Liverpool or not I don't see how it makes a difference to the outcome, why not just see what happens, it's not as though we have any control over the situation is it?

Tony Rice
27 Posted 22/04/2010 at 15:20:35

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FFS ! We've finished 8th !!!!!!
We don't deserve to be in Europe !
We had a real opportunity in the last 4 matches but blew it.....

Team should focus on next season's league play....a strong start SHOULD see us battling for top 4

Stuart Downey
28 Posted 22/04/2010 at 15:26:46

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http://www.evertonfc.com/news/archive/2010/04/22/no-europe-for-pompey

8th Will not be a European place.

I hope Liverpool capitulate and finish there.

Eric Yarker
29 Posted 22/04/2010 at 15:32:38

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With the announcement that Portsmouth will not occupy a Europa League berth, there is a possibility that we could still be entered in the draw for next season even if we finish eigth, which despite our valiant efforts is realistically the best we can now hope for.

Qualification would be subject to those travel weary gobshites winning the competition who would then automatically qualify as defending chumpions. I'm between a rock and a hard place on this one but if it means continuing to develop the team so be it. The record books will show we qualified and went on to win it.......

Kevin Fitzsimons
30 Posted 22/04/2010 at 15:38:34

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Having already commented that I believe Everton will gain 9 points from remaining 3 games whilst RS will gain only 3.... I am fearing a fearsome quandary looming.

Should RS finish 7th and win the Europa League it will give us (8th) European football next year.

Could I really be in the position of wanting the RS to win a trophy!!! Oh I feel sick to the stomach even thinking about it.... Can somebody give me some solace?

Mark Murphy
31 Posted 22/04/2010 at 15:36:55

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I dont get it? Some want them to win another trophy so we get a shot at trying to win it? I wouldnt support that shower if they were playing a combined Waffen SS, Khymer Rouge, KGB eleven!

Maybe its because of where I'm from and remember the incessant gloating and stick from the arrogant bastards week in and week out, especially when they began to win the Uefa and European cups (when it really was only for the champions as they sneeringly pointed out when Man Utd won it in after finishing 2nd but conveniently forgot when they finished 5th, FFS), but I wouldnt wish them well under any circumstances!

Everything they accuse Man U fans of being now, they were times 10 in the 70s and 80s so fuck em!
Come on Atletico!

Mark Laverty
32 Posted 22/04/2010 at 16:29:57

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I could not condone supporting them in any competition.......so no way. Also, I don't mind not been in the Europa League next year, I'd like to see the team concentrating solely on the league.

Eric Myles
33 Posted 22/04/2010 at 16:36:23

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No Dave Wharton, the winner gets an additional place if they have not qualified through placing.
So if Fulham win it and the RS finish 5/6/7 they both are in it.

Jay Woods
34 Posted 22/04/2010 at 17:08:51

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I would rather we had been relegated than finished 4th the year they won the CL in Istanbul.

Stewart Oakes
35 Posted 22/04/2010 at 17:12:00

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This is from the UEFA we site.

Titleholder
2.06 Unless the UEFA Cup titleholder qualifies for the UEFA Champions League
through its domestic championship, it is guaranteed a place in the group
stage of the UEFA Europa League. If the titleholder does qualify for the
UEFA Europa League through its domestic competitions, the number of
places to which its national association is entitled in the UEFA Europa
League does not change. If the UEFA Cup titleholder does not qualify for
either the UEFA Champions League or UEFA Europa League through its
domestic competitions, its participation in the UEFA Europa League is not at
the expense of the contingent of its association.

The only way we can qualify is by finishing 7th or higher.

Dermot Ryan
36 Posted 22/04/2010 at 17:07:45

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Does the Europa even feel like "playing in Europe"? Will we keep any players that we might have lost if we didn't get into this shitty contest? Really? It just adds too many games for a small squad. I'd rather focus on the league next year.

With regards the 8th spot, if it happens, it happens. But I will be absolutely miserable if it happens because of the success of the shite. And I will certainly be rooting for any team that plays against them.

Only scenario when I might root for those fuckers (and their insufferably arrogant fans): If them winning stops us from being relegated.

I'm totally with Mark Murphy on this won. The worst plans on the planet (or joint worst with English fans).

Davie Turner
37 Posted 22/04/2010 at 17:24:56

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Support Liverpool, nah, I'll send out positive thoughts to Hull, Burnley and Chelsea though then we can just finish 7th and there is none of this other silliness.

Brendan O'Doherty
38 Posted 22/04/2010 at 17:44:28

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Right that's it settled then. Phew!
G'WAN ATLETICO!

Tony Waring
39 Posted 22/04/2010 at 17:39:52

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I'm shouting for Atletico who I hope will stuff the Kopites.

Karl Masters
40 Posted 22/04/2010 at 17:43:18

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I suspect we'll finish eighth, be disappointed for a while, spend all Summer worrying our best players will leave because of no Euro action next season. BUT

Next season.... would not having all those extra games in funny little towns in the Czech Republic losing 3 players to injuries on a flooded pitch in Athens, having to play 3 away games in 5 days (Benfica, Bolton, Spurs) etc not do our League and domestic Cup hopes the power of good? It's certainly helped Spurs, City and Villa not to have it this season.

Maybe for once, the Gods are aligning things in our favour.....remember the 24 year rule!!! :)

Gareth Hughes
41 Posted 22/04/2010 at 18:07:26

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This is really annoying me now. As things stand at the moment, an extra Europa League place is likely to go to the EPL through the Fair Play League so 8th place will probably get in via that. Why does no one else know about this?

Mike Allison
42 Posted 22/04/2010 at 18:14:32

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No anyway.

BBC are wrong, an extra place is not generated by a Liverpool victory. If Fulham win it and come 9th/10th or whatever, then they don't take Liverpool's place for coming seventh, England would have an extra representative, so Man City/Tottenham, Aston Villa and Liverpool qualify from the league and Fulham as titleholders.

We've been through this before and the UEFA website (can't be arsed to find it AGAIN) is pretty clear.

I've come round to the point of view that we could actually do with a year off from European competition, especially playing on fucking Thursday night. I want to come 4th or above next year, and reach domestic finals/semi finals, dare I ask even to win a trophy?! The Europa League will make all that much more difficult.

Gareth (42), because a fair play place wouldn't go to 8th place in the league, it would go to the highest team in the Premier League's fair play league who hadn't already qualified for Europe. I've no idea what the standings are for that. If you're right then there's a possible scenario where 9 English teams play in Europe next season and none of them are Everton.

Mike Allison
43 Posted 22/04/2010 at 18:22:50

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Just found it here:

http://www.premierleague.com/page/FairPlayTable

We've got no chance.

Mike Allison
44 Posted 22/04/2010 at 18:25:12

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Er, Dermot...

"Only scenario when I might root for those fuckers (and their insufferably arrogant fans): If them winning stops us from being relegated."

I think you meant to say "If them winning wins us the league." did you not?

Looking more closely at the Fair Play table, its three weeks out of date, most of the teams above us in it are already going to qualify for Europe, and the ones that aren't aren't very far ahead. I still want the year off though!

And what is meant by 'positive play'?

Adolf Ng
45 Posted 22/04/2010 at 18:36:31

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Although difficult, we still have a chance to get 7th, or even 6th (yes, I know that we somehow need a miracle, but football is a funny thing). So, before we are mathematically impossible to get any better than 8th, why not just focus on how to win the next game?!?!?!?! Looking at the other side, if we lose all three remaining games and Birmingham wins all, we will be 9th and no need to worry about whether 8th gets a EL place !

Andy Crooks
46 Posted 22/04/2010 at 19:01:55

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Cairan, I really think you underestimate the value of European football. Would you not like us to be in Fulham's position tonight?

Dave McCarten
47 Posted 22/04/2010 at 20:00:01

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Well I've just got my Atletico shirt from JJB and big jug of Sangria. Come on you little Spanish beauties.

Øystein Bjaanes Lemvik
48 Posted 22/04/2010 at 20:00:16

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Hoping Liverpool win a competition? Nope. To get to Europe, we'll have to overtake them in the league. Period

Dave McCarten
49 Posted 22/04/2010 at 20:14:43

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Get in there 1-0 yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeessssssssssssssssssssssssssss

Jamie Sweet
50 Posted 22/04/2010 at 21:24:53

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I'm still up for finishing 7th.

Nick Entwistle
51 Posted 22/04/2010 at 22:59:05

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1-0 Atletico. NIce one you Espanas... if they don't falter under the 'pressure' of the Kop in the second leg then we can all sing for Fulham in the final. They have the home advantage for the second leg and will make for a good final... go away Liverpool, you're an annoying fly about to be swatted. Roll on the summer.

James Boden
52 Posted 22/04/2010 at 23:23:00

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It really is as simple as this. Basically we would want them to win another European trophy just so we can have another season of humiliation in Europe. You must be fucking joking. No fucking way will I be chearing for them to win it. However for possibly the first time ever I will be chearing them to beat Chelsea Sunday week as the thought of them aiding United to overtake their title record is almost what dreams are made of. If ever there was an ultimate irony this would be it.

Chris Leyland
53 Posted 22/04/2010 at 23:41:12

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I refer you to UEFA regulation 10002.31.245.34.456:

If Liverpool do not qualify for a particular competion then UEFA will retrospectively change the rules to ensure that they are allowed to play in Europe

David Moore
54 Posted 22/04/2010 at 23:44:22

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Who cares anyway we are going to finish 7th in front of the Shite. THey have Chelsea and Burnley(a) and Hull(a). All of those sides are paying for something. Burnely will get them at home aftera long week in Europe as we get Fulham. Then they will see Chelsea win the title at Anfield. Last day it is Hull (who are shithouse but trying to survive like hell). In saying that they can conceivably get only 4 points which keeps us in the hunt and means we need to spank the crap out of Fulham, stoke and Pompey.

There is always hope.

Eric Myles
55 Posted 23/04/2010 at 02:30:25

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Gareth, the Fair Play place does not go to the domestic league position, it goes to the highest team in the Fair Play Table that has not already qualified by other means.

At the moment that is Fulham.

If they win the Europa then the highest placed team is ...................Burnley!!

and after them West Ham, Wigan and Wolves, before you get to us.
http://www.premierleague.com/page/FairPlayTable

Gavin Ramejkis
56 Posted 23/04/2010 at 07:28:43

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Never, not whilst I am still breathing and great to see Forlan score last night against them as BBC commentary said the only thing missing was the Benny Hill theme tune and unlike their satan spawn form they had a good goal ruled offside, a good night all round.

Sam Higgins
57 Posted 23/04/2010 at 09:55:45

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I was thinking about the Europa League last night and really what is the fucking point?

Can you rememeber who won it last year or the year before or the year before that? I only rememeber one recent final - the one with Rangers and thats only because the scots went on the rampage in Manchester. but I cant rememebr the score or who they lost to.

Yet with the champs league I can remember an awful lot of finals and most of the winners.

You have to play a ridiculous number of games to get to the final - and if you do well in the comp you have no hope of getting 4th int he prem as well.

Next season we might just commence with a fully fit squad who can make a bit of headway in the Prem. Im not fussed about this 2 bit europa malarky. It's been rebranded but it's still the also-rans cup.

Tony J Williams
58 Posted 23/04/2010 at 11:57:43

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B Gavinut, you know deep down that those effers will trounce them at Anfield. Atletico looked absolutely dire last night.. but on the good side so did the redshite.

Michael Brien
59 Posted 23/04/2010 at 12:47:10

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And I used to think it was complicated in the 1960s - when they had that "Only One Club from a city could qualify" rule for the Inter-Cities Fairs Cup!! Even though I was only a kid then, I still thought it unfair that a team that finished 5th in 1967-68 and 3rd in 1968-69 for example did not qualify because of that stupid rule.

If our dear neighbours do win the Europa League possibly the best response to any gloating would be to point out that earlier in the season they were more than happy to rubbish the competition. Anyway isn't all of this speculation rather academic? I believe that a certain Mr Benitez had promised that Liverpool would finish 4th — And that's a fact !!!

Michael Wood
60 Posted 23/04/2010 at 13:14:39

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Just read this story about to break...

A major Liverpool player is going to be moving abroad in the summer, and away from the Premier League, because his wife is alleged to be having an affair with a Derby County player. Who the Derby County player could be (if true) is anyone’s guess but WorldCupWags will continue to dig deeper into this news..

Think that’s all?? Well it’s not. This Liverpool player has allegedly got a 16-year-old Liverpudlian girl pregnant, and what’s more, rumours are that she’s keeping it.

Apparently everyone in Liverpool has already accepted that he’s going and he’s in court at the moment trying to stop it all coming out.

Will the big injunction help the Liverpudlian or has WorldCupWags just fuelled the Liverpool fire – Rumours or not, time will tell...

Karl Masters
61 Posted 23/04/2010 at 18:24:52

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That bloody Robbie Savage gets everywhere!

Only a guess by the way. I know nothing really.

John Kimble
62 Posted 23/04/2010 at 22:05:13

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Heard a rumour from a woman at work who knows 'a guy who has links with LFC'. Make of that what you will...

She said that Gerrard has got a 15yr old pregnant (she''s now 16) and his wife is seeing a guy from Derby FC. Apparently both him and FSW are off to Juve in the summer.

May be some truth in it, could also be complete crap. Don''t shoot me down, just relaying what I heard...

Mike Jones
63 Posted 24/04/2010 at 00:27:00

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The answer to the question in the title should have just been "No". It doesn't need a debate.

Mike Jones
64 Posted 24/04/2010 at 00:29:13

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Sam No.57 - putting aside all of your other comments about which I don't have a view, it was Zenit that Rangers played, and lost to, in the final; we played them (Zenit) at home in the earlier league format. Won. I recall someone called Skrtel was shite (and ugly) in that game.

Derek Thomas
65 Posted 24/04/2010 at 07:40:02

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Disclaimer: I haven't read any replies, just scrolled down to post this.

I USED to be the sort that went to EFC one week and rs the next. Cologne, Anderlect, Inter, went to them all, they were occaisions, it was a game, it was all so new and happening (so 60s I know).

But that was then and this is now and, as the say in court, there are 'no previous offences to be taken into consideration' over the last 40 yrs.

I hope they lose, no CL next year and with a bit of luck the year after, hence into administration, bankrupcy, league one or where ever.

It couldn't happen to a better bunch.

Now-a-days the are just what it says on the packet.

REDSHITE

Gavin Ramejkis
66 Posted 24/04/2010 at 10:53:34

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John @ 62 got call from Rangers mate who says Creasehead's Mrs has been photographed without wedding ring on and she's allegedly banging Kris Commons.

Eric Myles
67 Posted 26/04/2010 at 07:20:01

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latest update of the FairPlay table here:
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/stats/fairplay?league=eng.1&seasontype=4&cc=4716

So we'll have to be good boys in the remaining 2 games to have a chance, unless the League can choose who to nominate? [Don't know why the footy league website can't keep their own table up to date?]

Darren Seary
68 Posted 26/04/2010 at 20:59:08

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Much though it goes against the grain to wish Liverpool well, isn't it the case that if the RS win the Europa League then we'd get into Europe? I could be totally wrong, and probably am, but my thinking is: if they win the Europa then they get back into it next year as holders; that would then mean that the European place they hold through the league (assuming they finish 7th) goes to 8th spot (us).

Does anyone know if that's right?