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Buy Buy Bill?

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Came across this little snippet on the NSNO Facebook page.

Apparently (allegedly), Bill is preparing to sell up, the rumoured new owner is supposed to be one of the parties who where formerly interested in buying out LFC but see us as a better investment.

Has anyone else heard anything about this?
Franny Porter, Wendover     Posted 24/04/2010 at 20:53:28

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Rob Jones
1   Posted 24/04/2010 at 21:30:56

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Has anybody else heard a rumour going round that Everton are to be bought out this summer by a number of American solicitors, who were interested in the redshite?
Gavin Ramejkis
2   Posted 24/04/2010 at 21:47:40

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Despite the RS being touted at the same cost as Man U (£800m) I still don't think this is anything more than hot air. I don't think BK owns the shares beyond name only and he's got form for bullshit going back years, either of those two and its a non starter.
David Hallwood
3   Posted 24/04/2010 at 22:00:10

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Not another fuckin yank, and their leverage buyout scheme... Ahhhh!
Tony McNulty
4   Posted 24/04/2010 at 22:34:54

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Fortress Sports Fund... Russians... the Middle East … All this stuff just wastes time and emotional energy. Of course we would all like money to come into the club for transfers and a new ground.

But I just can’t get my head around why anyone would want to put in money. If the Evertonian billionaire fan existed, he would already have appeared. So anyone else is doing it for a financial return and that could mean RS or Manure-style debt.

And while we aren’t a Portsmouth, we don’t really have the international brand currently which could protect the club in case someone starts loading us with excessive debt.
Dennis Stevens
5   Posted 24/04/2010 at 23:06:45

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I'd have thought it unlikely any financial institution would support further debt for Everton, so it seems to me that only an immensely wealthy owner(s) putting their own money in (which they would be extremely unlikely to ever get back) would be able to add to the existing debt. Indeed, even doing this may lead to current debts having to be repaid as the lending institiutions may feel further debt is unsustainable & want their loans paid back pronto.

So, unless we are looking at a Chelsea/Manchester City type scenario, I can't see anything too dramatic happening. Perhaps if the current Board take a reasonable pay-off, we may see a simple change in control to new owner(s) who feel they can run the business better than it has been over recent decades & enable the club to gradually progress, but it's all what-ifs & maybes.

Tony Parsons
6   Posted 24/04/2010 at 23:57:35

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Well first reaction is to hope it's true. But having Bill stay on to make sure we don't become another Newcastle, Pompey etc would in my mind be fantastic if at all possible. When the City and Chelsea takeovers happened, there was not these internet rumours at all, it just happened. Therefore, I think it's nonsense.
Lyndon Lloyd
7   Posted 25/04/2010 at 00:26:42

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From what we've heard, the Yanks are just the due-diligence middle-men between EFC and the prospective buyers.
Tony Parsons
8   Posted 25/04/2010 at 00:32:21

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But any idea who the prospective buyers are?
Ian Tunstead
9   Posted 25/04/2010 at 00:29:48

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I hope it isn't true. Firstly, I wouldn't trust any American buisnessmen... and secondly, I would not trust any American lawyers. Bill knows what it's all about. What he lacks in funds he makes up for in understanding and passion for the game. We've come this far without money so i see no reason why we can't continue to progress.
Luke Gould
10   Posted 25/04/2010 at 01:15:24

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Come this far without money?
I didn't realise coming 5th last year and 8th this year with a higher debt was progress!
Brendan McLaughlin
11   Posted 25/04/2010 at 01:14:59

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Ian....because we have no money.
Matt Traynor
12   Posted 25/04/2010 at 01:47:14

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Why are people assuming that because they are in the US, they are American? A Private Equity firm I used to freelance for here in Asia looked at a Prem club for a bunch of Asia-based investors. The majority of them were Brits, but like most, they didn't want identities revealed at the bidding stage.

There are many different reasons why (as an example) Asia-based investors eye the Prem. A CEO of an airline here (also a principal of an F1 team, Chairman of a Basketball team etc.) wanted to get West Ham. No co-incidence he'd set up a low cost airline from Asia to Europe. It's about marketing exposure, as the PL is a global brand. And whether you hate language like "leveraging the brand", it's here to stay.

But countering that, you have the situation at Notts County, Portsmouth, and across the park. I've no idea what Hicks & Gillett's strategy was, given their other sports investments (though I suspect they eyed a quick-flip after the new stadium started for a vast profit), but hypothetically, if Liverpool had had a great season, would they be in dire straits?

As mentioned above - the leveraged buyouts tend to be focused on the teams at the top (who cost more to acquire). We ain't that.

As also mentioned before, we don't do well commercially in terms of local fanbase buying merch, or globally. But therein also lies an opportunity.
Brendan O'Doherty
13   Posted 25/04/2010 at 03:17:55

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Ian, we already have an American businessman as a director of the club. I can understand you getting nervy given what's happened elsewhere, but it's wrong to say that we can progress much further without new investment. Given BK's reluctance to entertain any investors that he's not totally sure about, it's probably safe to say that if someone new comes on board it should be 100% the right move for the club.
Ron Marr
14   Posted 25/04/2010 at 03:50:46

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I doubt if it will be a highly leveraged buyout like Liverpool and Man United. Liverpool's one year debt service is probably enough to buy Everton... ok, I'm exaggerating, how about eighteen months debt service?
Gavin Ramejkis
15   Posted 25/04/2010 at 10:15:24

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People seem to confuse BK not entertaining investors as not being right for the club but I've a feeling it's been more of a case that maybe they have not been willing to meet his asking price for his shares. You only have to look at Waldorf and Stadtler to see the ridule they are getting from their valuation.

Given what Everton cost and it's current debt, I'd not be surprised if it's similar here and there was always the claim that he wanted to keep some board membership too... bit of a pisstake really.

Rob Wilkinson
16   Posted 25/04/2010 at 10:18:28

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I think it's going to be a case of taking the club from Kenwright's cold dead hands!!! It has been stated that the motions he's put in place to sell the club are paltry... and, judging by the amount of debt (broken down in an article a few weeks back), we don't look a brilliant prospect for people who like MAKING money!!!
Norman Merrill
17   Posted 25/04/2010 at 11:16:42

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Franny: At least you have given us something to think about , during the World Cup. But, like many Blues, where takeovers are concerned, I will believe it when it's done and dusted.
Tony Kelly
18   Posted 25/04/2010 at 11:17:04

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I know this is nothing to do with this thread, but yesterday I sent an e-mail to Michael Kenrick, asking him to give me information regarding bars in New York who will be showing the Blues game today. I have got a number of friends in the Big Apple for the weekend, up until now Michael hasn't given me the decency of a reply. Can any other American blues help me?
Danny Jones
19   Posted 25/04/2010 at 12:00:51

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Lyndon would you care to expand on that? Have you heard who the "buyers" are? How much the club is valued at? When it might happen? etc etc.
Ciarán McGlone
20   Posted 25/04/2010 at 12:16:59

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"But having Bill stay on to make sure we don't become another Newcastle, Pompey etc "
----------------

How exactly would he do that?


He's already proved he' a financial munchkin.
Ciarán McGlone
21   Posted 25/04/2010 at 12:40:51

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Tony...you'll be unlikely to find a bar showing the match...

As sadly the 3 o clocks kick offs on Sunday are usually sandwiched between two more lucrative games... and overlap with these kick off and end times.

Normally I can get these game broadcast on Romanian, Hugarian or Albanian stations... but today these aren't even showing it...

It is on one of the Swedish stations though which means it'll be available on the net...

www.liveonsat.com
Tony McNulty
22   Posted 25/04/2010 at 12:53:29

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Ciarán

Bill Kenwright is not George Soros, but he has run his own business successfully for a number of years, in the process becoming a millionaire. This is all idle speculation of course, but if he were to stay on as a member of the Board, he would presumably continue to hold some shares, and would therefore be in a position to influence decisions.
Ciarán McGlone
23   Posted 25/04/2010 at 13:05:21

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So how has Everton fared under his tenure Tony?
Tony McNulty
24   Posted 25/04/2010 at 13:07:27

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As Blackadder would say, “I think you’re on the point of spotting the flaw in my plan.”

Actually some might argue that under Kenwright, we’re still here. I wouldn’t give him an A+ for taking things forward, but if I think back to Agent Johnson and state we were in (e.g. Ferguson’s sale), I think we could have done a lot worse.

Ciarán McGlone
25   Posted 25/04/2010 at 13:18:30

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On that basis I certainly wouldn't advocate keeping him on as some sort of financial guardian - There may be a case for keeping him as some sort of passonate figurehead - but it's not something i'd advocate..personally I think his histrionics and exageration do more damage than good.

A clean break would be a favoured option for me...
Gavin Ramejkis
26   Posted 25/04/2010 at 13:23:34

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Tony, BK was on Johnson's board and he knew he didn't have the money to buy Everton at the time and borrowed heavily from Anita Gregg and needed Paul Gregg in too to gain control. As far as his acumen goes in his favoured theatre tout role, plenty of comments on older threads questioning his methods and I personally have been in conversations with luvvie duvvies saying he's small fry and more of an Arthur Daly than a Cameron Mackintosh.

I'd agree with Ciaran that a clean break would suit me from Everton's own Peter Swales.
Ged Simpson
27   Posted 25/04/2010 at 13:33:03

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Summer is here
Michael Kenrick
28   Posted 25/04/2010 at 13:31:00

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Sorry, Tony #18... I missed your e.mail. Not that I could have helped... for some reason (perhaps it's because I don't live anywhere near New York and haven't been there for 20+ years) I don't have that info to hand. It's mentioned plenty on t'internet though, so I'm sure a little effort Googling would reveal something.

I have heard it's supposedly on ESPN2 in the US... and Cairan, US bars have typically 2 to 4 or more TVs showing more than one game.

Tony, perhaps you could help me: name some bars in El Estor, Guatemala, where I could watch it? Coz that is where I am right now.
Ciarán McGlone
29   Posted 25/04/2010 at 13:42:12

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I'm sure they do Micheal [sic].... however they can have as many TV's as Curry's and still not be able to show the game if it's not being broadcast ...

I was merely saying that todays game was not being broadcast on a lot of stations in Europe, Africa and Asia....


But if it's on ESPN2 then I suppose my post is obsolete
Tony McNulty
30   Posted 25/04/2010 at 14:31:35

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I don’t want to rattle the cages of the anti-Kenwright faction again because we have had so many threads on that subject. But if he had not bought Everton all those years ago, name me someone who would have done. Probably the same person who has been queueing up to buy us ever since it was announced we were for sale.

We need financing from somewhere and “24/7” has not brought it yet. That has to count as some sort of failure. However, we could be a lot worse off, as I’ve said. Anyone fancy the sort of Johnny-Come-Lately profiteers we have seen in other places?
Dennis Stevens
31   Posted 25/04/2010 at 16:00:45

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Tony, wasn't Lord Grantchester interested at the time & was also subsequently rumoured to be supporting Gregg when Kemwright fell out with the man who enabled him to gain control in the first place?
Phil Martin
32   Posted 25/04/2010 at 16:03:42

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Ian Tunstead,

I literally pissed myself when i read;

"What he (Bill) lacks in funds he makes up for in understanding"

In Terry Tibbs style;

Kings Dock...talk to me!
Russain Millionaire...talk to me!
Swiss Financiers...talk to me!
Keith Wyness...talk to me!
Evertonian Billionaires...talk to me!
Destination Kirkby...talk to me!
Looking 24/7...talk to me!
Lyndon Lloyd
33   Posted 25/04/2010 at 17:30:21

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Danny Jones: Lyndon would you care to expand on that? Have you heard who the "buyers" are? How much the club is valued at? When it might happen? etc etc.

Sorry, Danny, I don't know any of those details, just heard that the interested parties are European.
Tony McNulty
34   Posted 25/04/2010 at 17:48:05

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Dennis, Gavin (I know this one lights your blue touch paper),

Other than the participants involved, no-one really knows the “truth” about the various claims and counter claims. As a lawyer might put it, recollections vary and the facts are in dispute.

What we and the birds in the trees do know is that Everton have been formally for sale for some time, and at the very least since our Chairman announced it at the Everton Supporters’ Club in London meeting in the Summer of 2008. I know that much for certain; I was there.

And if Lord Granchester, Lord Haw Haw or even Lord Lucan want to stump up some cash and make a bid now, I guess they could. But what really matters is getting the right sort of owner. I actually asked BK at the aforementioned meeting how he would make sure of this. He answered that it would be done by carrying out a proper due diligence on whoever came forward.

I guess that like Kirby, Coleman and Cahill, there will always be issues which split Evertonians. And the merits or otherwise of Kenwright’s tenure will forever be one of them.

Paul McGinty
35   Posted 25/04/2010 at 21:28:58

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As to where the game was being televised... in NY Mr Denehey's downtown Manhattan shows the Everton games. If you want to venture south to Bradley Beach, New Jersey, D'Arcy's shows Premier League games all weekend.Better luck next time.
Gavin Ramejkis
36   Posted 25/04/2010 at 22:48:48

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Tony (my fuse dulled), because I and no doubt many others have in the past said, Gregg's reverse mortgage for KD would have had significant backing from Lord Grantchester but would have wrested controlling interest from BK. The rest is infamy. I could also add that Lord Granchester's mother is reputedly strongly against his investment in the club.

No-one knows at the time of the BK and Gregg's takeover who was in the running to buy Everton as, technically speaking, the For Sale sign never went up and BK was a Board member who arranged a quick way out for Johnson, so your statement is supposition at best.

By the way, due dilligence is performed by a buyer not a vendor, the idea is a nonsense; does BK block the sale because he says the buyer lives in the wrong country, isn't an Evertonian, can't speak English or won't give him a seat on the Board? The only thing a vendor can demand is that the buyer has the readies to meet the asking price.
Mike Green
37   Posted 26/04/2010 at 00:10:45

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Ged Simpson - spot on!

I was lucky enough to be in Paris this weekend, hotel by the Louvre, walk down the Seine, Freud at the Pompidou, snails, grilled sardines, wine, cognac and expresso, 22 degrees and beautiful women everywhere.

But something was missing. I've been home for an hour or two, watched MOTD2 (get in Miky) and you've got it in one.

Summer is definitely here. Nice one.
Rob Hollis
38   Posted 26/04/2010 at 00:02:31

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And we don't think about relegation anymore, and we have an excellent team who will do very well next season, and we still go on and on because Bill Kenwright can't afford to give Everton the cash to buy Messi and Rooney and Ronaldo etc.

Club is playing good football and appears to be solvent (just). Manchester City will never generate the money they are spending, Chelsea never did either. A mega rich new owner is just bullshit. Where is the real achievement in buying what you can't afford or hope to recoup?

The more clubs who do 'a city' the more unrealistic the EPL is and more sorry will be the end.

I do not know Kenwright or the business dealings of the club, so I have no opinion of him, I just get tired of listening to people demanding a billionaire in shining armour to purchase the title.

There is always something attached to billions of pounds and that is a ruthless bastard who would leave your club to pay a vast unsustainable wage bill the day your club no longer suited them. Not worth it.
Vijay Nair
39   Posted 26/04/2010 at 04:26:29

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Rob, I don't think the majority of us are hanging for someone to come in with silly money ala Shitty and Chelski.

I for one would be happy for someone or some group to come in with sufficient funds to clear our debt (which is negligeble compared to some of the clubs above and below us in the league). Then build on the good foundation we already have. A few quality addtions to the side and development on our ground would do us a world of good.

Not all foreign investment is a bad thing. Look at what has been achieved at Villa... It would be foolish to expect instant success, but it would surely reduce the parity between ourselves and the clubs with money flowing out of their arses!
Peter Warren
40   Posted 26/04/2010 at 11:00:36

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I don't understand reluctance to people not wanting investment, whether from Yanks or whoever.

If Kenwright was a yank there would have been a massed protest to get rid of him years ago: he tells lies, is incompetent and our business model consists of selling players to finance the running of the club. His saving grace (whether you think he's great or not) has been Moyes.
Pablo Mc
41   Posted 26/04/2010 at 11:16:22

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I'm surprised that one name hasn't yet been mentioned in this thread yet. Everyone seems to be talking about what Bill Kenwright wants to do and what decisions he makes, but is he really the man making theses decisions ?

If – as hypothesized greatly in recent times – Phillip Green (and by extension, Robert Earl) is really the man making the decisions, then the death of Desperation Kirkby will surely have been the end of his interest in Everton Football Club?

I think the club might actually REALLY be up for sale for the first time in a long time (as Kenwright himself said in the past – it wasn't really "for sale" when they bought it) simply because the man with the money has finally decided he wants out?
Phil Martin
42   Posted 26/04/2010 at 12:20:46

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Rob Hollis,

I haven't see a single person on this site "waiting for a billionaire". The only person I can think of currently doing this is Bill Kenwright himself.

Peter Warren,

Spot on! Our debt is a lot smaller than that of City or West Ham or Newcastle's was.
We could renovate GP stand by stand for a lot less than the cost of building elsewhere. The bonus being our stadium would then be a substantial asset on the balance sheet. Which it probably isn't now. Thereby the money spent on the ground increases the club's value and revenue.

With £50M we could buy the 3-4 top players we need to compete with the Top 4. Which is a lot less than City/Chelsea/Spurs have all spent.

Jay Harris
43   Posted 26/04/2010 at 13:21:39

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Pablo, I think you're spot on there.

Phil, agree with you totally.... way to go!
Rob Hollis
44   Posted 26/04/2010 at 15:05:28

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Sorry Phil, I disagree.

In posts before on this site I am certain that there have been demands for wealthy Russians/Arabs/Martians to buy Everton. In fact, everytime a club gets bought by anyone, there are people who can't see why it wasn't us.

I am sure, in time, something will come along, good or bad... but it is not controlled by the fans and not even influenced by the fans, so, whatever happens........
Dennis Stevens
45   Posted 26/04/2010 at 18:17:14

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Tony McNulty, it's a bit silly on the one hand for you to say "if he had not bought Everton all those years ago, name me someone who would have done", implying that only Kenwright was interested in the club — and then on the other to admit "no-one really knows the 'truth' ".

In other words, it's as pointless to speculate on who has been or is interested in buying the club as it is to claim that nobody is or has been interested in doing so. As always, we live off scraps of rumours & any "truth" that may emerge will certainly be less than whole.

I'm surprised that Kenwright would be announcing that the club is for sale as he doesn't own it entirely, or even a controlling interest. Was he just talking about his shares or speaking on behalf of the whole Board? Why has the club issued denials of seeking a new owner if the Chairman is happy to admit that's just what they're doing? Although you were present to hear it, that does not make it fact that it's actually happening, sadly. I'm sure it's at Board level that we need some change(s), whether or not that includes the departure of Kenwright.

Andrew Mackenzie
46   Posted 26/04/2010 at 19:26:21

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Tony #18. there's a sports bar on Broadway between 48th and 51st opposite T-Mobile store. They show a number of prem games. Would not bother with ESPN Bar on Broadway. There is supposed to be a blues supporters club in Manhattan but no idea where! Try Saju restaurant on 44th, best steak in NY and one of the waiters is a Chilean Blue of the Chilean Blues!
Tony McNulty
47   Posted 26/04/2010 at 20:49:00

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Dennis,

The following link summarises what BK said on this subject at the ESCLA meeting which had taken place a few weeks previously:

http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/everton-fc/everton-fc-news/2008/08/04/everton-for-sale-to-the-right-bidder-64375-21461878/

The article implies, as he did on the day, that he was in the driving seat as regards the sale. What his fellow directors’ and shareholders’ current requirements are, post Kirby, and the change in the global financial climate, is anyone’s guess.

What we do know is that BK has been saying consistently that he has run out of financial road. We are about to hit another Summer and our further progress could be hampered by lack of funding. If BK goes as part of a sale of Everton, then so be it. But I would be as, or more, worried about the possible motivations of any new buyer as many people on here seem to be worried about the motivations of Bill Kenwright.
Dennis Stevens
48   Posted 26/04/2010 at 21:34:58

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I read that piece when it was published almost 2 years ago, Tom, & there's nothing in there from Kenwright, nothing from the club indicating a sale. The nearest indication that there may be any interest in a possible sale is this: "... our chairman Bill Kenwright has made it clear at each and every AGM going back five years that he will continue to sit down and discuss the club’s future with any individual or group which boasts integrity and financial clout" — hardly a For Sale sign.

As recently as 11 March, Kenwright is quoted on the Everton website as searching for an "investor" — does this mean that the club is for sale? Would any potential investor gain complete control? Would they replace one or more of the current Directors? It all seems somewhat unclear — whether as a matter of commercial sensitivity or whether we're being fed more bullshit, I don't know.

However, I feel it would be possible to have a Board that performs better than ours currently does — if that can be achieved by the current Board, or as a result of a change or two, or even a complete clean sweep makes no difference to me.

By the way, you made me smile with the slight understatement "progress could be hampered by lack of funding" — that could be our motto for the Kenwright era!

Tony McNulty
49   Posted 26/04/2010 at 22:09:19

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It’s Tony, by the way. And you made me more than smile with your understatement: “I feel it would be possible to have a Board that performs better than ours currently does.”

I suspect you’re probably on a safe wicket with that one.
Dennis Stevens
50   Posted 26/04/2010 at 22:32:30

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Sorry Tony, it shows the dangers in switching between TW & email! I've probably just sent an email to Tom calling him Tony . Doh!
Tony Eastwood
51   Posted 04/05/2010 at 23:16:52

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Tony (#18) — World Cup viewing in NYC:

These links may help:
http://www.worldsoccerbars.com/soccer-bars/new-york-soccer-bars

With the following bar listed as an Everton Supporters' venue:
http://www.mrdennehys.com

You can e-mail them for more info: donal@mrdennehys.com I would expect, however, that every sports bar in NYC will be showing the opening England game of the tournament (the locals may be a little more interested than usual in the beautiful game for some reason). There is, of course, the risk that the commentators will be talking US soccer jargon (also known as 'bollocks') which really, really grates.

Greetings from Vermont/NH border. (Tony too.)

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