The Mail Bag
Ground move low priority?
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Pressure of work and an addition to the family have kept me away from ToffeeWeb as well as several matches recently and I am only just picking up the threads. Readers will be pleased to learn that my enforced absence from the Everton scene has somewhat curbed my enthusiasm for 'all things Kenwright' as I have reflected more objectively on the challenges ahead.
My major diappointment has been the total lack of progress — or news of it — on the plans for a new or re-vamped home for the Club. Many positive noises were made following the demise of Destination Kirkby ("fresh opportunity"... etc etc.)but over five months have elapsed without any indication that alternative plans are afoot.
Again, I may have missed something but it seems that even KEIOC are more interested in building hotels and museums in Stanley Park along with our neighbours than they are in planning for a new home.
Have I got it all wrong (as usual, some will say)? Or has the stadium issue been kicked back into the long grass in which it resided for all those years following the failure of the Kings Dock project?
Answers, please!
Richard Dodd, Posted 27/04/2010 at 09:55:07
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congratulations on your new addition and am I to believe that you've finally got your head out of Kenwright's arse.
The man has made so many promises and delivered so little it is difficult to know what will happen.
10 years of looking for investment 24/7.
Fortress Sports Fund.
Lies told about Gregg in an acrimonious split after costing us KD.
"My Blue palace"
"I look at the players we are (not) going to buy and say "WOw".
The joint stadium seems to be a non starter and the drawn out sale of LFC means a delay in the Stanley Park development.
I think you're wrong about KEIOC who presented plans on developing GP to the Goodison hierarchy and are actively looking for new sites too which is more than you can say for Kenwright and his stooges.
THere is a rumour that a sale may be going ahead and maybe we'll hear some news then but as always there appears to be no long term planning at EFC.
Welcome to the real world and glad you're back.
Good grief.
Like them or not at least they have put more effort into the ground issue in five minutes than what the club has in 25 years. Their plans involve starting with another tier on the Park End which would be financially feasible.
The reality is GP is an awful location. I'm sorry but I've been to quite a few away grounds and stewards are friendly and helpful and the facilities are great. Somebody should really sort out the parking issue as there's virtually nowhere to park for most people past a certian time. The parking is ridiculously expensive and nowadays you need parking permits to park on any of streets within 10 minutes of the ground.
When I've visited other grounds, it seems to me that people try and make your day as nice as possible; I find GP to suck and be an unfriendly ground for visting supporters.
But Chris Butler's spot on about GP, I've got a season ticket in the main stand towards the park end with a decent view, I changed seats for Sunday's game (don't ask its too complicated) and the goal at the Gwaldys St end was blocked by a post, I moved seats a few times until I could watch the game unobstructed. Its only when you realise how many obstructed view there are in GP and the fact that's its looking tatty that something must be done and quick. I addition to echo Chris, nowhere to park, inadequate facilities it's hard to make a case for staying at GP. How about resurrecting DK-on second thoughts, let's not go there
Flown, hasn't it?
Like it or not, Kirkby was the only option the Club had... aside from a miracle. Without that option (or a miracle), there will be no new stadium and no redevelopment of Goodison. There is no money!!
For Christ's sake, the sooner people get that into their heads, then the sooner this stupid speculation will cease. I said on this site long ago that LCC would not help one iota if Kirkby got knocked back and that has been proven to be the case. They won't even allow the club to sell Bellefield for housing, which is the only use that would give the land some value.
It may have seemed a great idea at the time to oppose a move 4 miles away from Goodison... but what are we left with now? Fuck all.
Yet they still think we`d have come up with £80 million to move to a stadium so many fans vowed never to step foot in.
As for Goodison, the Park End extra tier makes sense and surely, when Bellefield does get sold, that money should go to funding this.
As for the away fans, they can wait in my opinion, as hardly any bother these days and I mean that at most grounds — not just Goodison.
And as for Kirkby, was that really an option given the fact how much we where having to stump up from our own pockets? Dave's post above says it all for me.
Unfortunately, the club failed to realise this, even though many such as KEIOC pointed it out to them & so wasted a lot of money on a scheme that was proven to be a bad idea for Everton by the fact it couldn't be delivered — although I'm sure we're all getting a little used to that now.
I doubt there are many, if any, Blues who don't realise we're skint, but things change & we may not be skint forever. Whether it'll be of any help to the club in the long run or not, I don't know... but I don't see the harm in some supporters trying to do more than crying from the sidelines that, if we "can't pay for it, then what is the fucking point?".
Why do you say 'self-appointed' pressure group as though it's an ego thing?
Fact: ALL (or 99%) of pressure groups are 'self appointed'.
Or maybe you think there are people with grievances who approach others saying..
"Would you be a pressure group my behalf? I'd do it myself but I don't want to be seen as a egotist"
Personally, I will be forever grateful to KEIOC for having the balls, energy, intelligence and drive to put pressure on anyone prepared to listen, that DK was a badly conceived, half-baked nonsense that could have been the end of Everton FC.
To be honest, I think you've got a fucking nerve.
You backed a PROVEN bullshitter and his bullshit DK scheme and knocked those who were knocking him for it.
Now you say "Well I'm not so sure now.....BUT Keioc seem a bit iffy!"
Tip: Rather than 'reflecting more objectively' why not use your powers of objectivity ALL THE TIME.
.
Selfish? No more so than DK supporters who merely wanted to get by car from Preston Brook to the stadium via the motorway and a nice wee parking space...
And you can throw their team into that as well.
Is it too much to ask you to admit we were deceived by Kenwright on the whole ground move issue and you've lost some trust in the man?
The reason the ground move has gone cold is because we've no money. We're as skint as we've ever been. This will be shown again this summer when we probably have to sell a star player again to raise any funds for players. Just when optimism is at it's highest, Kenwright will again fail to back his manager and we'll see those teams around us strengthen further.
Personally I hate Liverpool, I've attempted not to for the sake of my sister and my mother but I have a deep hatred for them! Yet Sharing a ground wouldn't bother me if it meant the greater good for Everton!
Not sure we could even afford to cough up a toffee never mind however many millions it would cost. The benefits are obvious, the only issue I can think off is the pitch itself having to stand a match every week but you'd have extra ground staff as they'll only be one pitch. Maybe they could design some way of rolling the pitch out like in the dock idea.
I just don't see the point in shooting ourselves in the foot because we hate the r'shite!
As far as the sale of Bellefield is concerned,I no longer believe that any revenue from this would ring-fenced for a new stadium but would rather fall into general income for tranfers and players-or be grabbed by the banks to write down the debt.
This would be a very cost-effective way of increasing the capacity with minimum disruption. The rest of the ground could be redeveloped over time with a little help from our friends (LCC?).
With new owners, I am sure LCC would be more supportive as most of them have no confidence in Kenwright.
I've only ever experienced one of the 15,000 (whichever CEO made that up) obstructed views once and that was in the main stand for the Villarreal game*
It was like something out of the Muppet Show - we all leaned left, then we all leaned right - what a performance!
So, I guess I'm lucky - I always stood by the 2nd barrier behing the Gwladys St goal and now I sit around about the same spec
Piece by piece rebuilding (funded by `buy-a-brick', `rent-the-rubble'?) would seem to be the answer if we are to stay at Goodison - surely it's not beyond modern building techniques? And wouldn't four seasons of disruption be worth it to let the 10s of 1000s (so I'm told) of obstructed supporters see more of the game?
*apart from the big lad with the Fellaini wig 2 rows in front
Phil Bellis;
I've had the displeasure of experiencing obstructed views in the Main Stand, Bullens Road and Glwadys St.
Fuck me, it's hard work dodging pillars, gantries, and low ceilings. If we had an obstruction free stadium, we'd see a lot more people buying match day tickets. Because sometimes it's a lottery when you get a ticket in a section you haven't been in before. And it must put a lot of people off (especially over an entire season).
The Trevor Kempton/Tom Hughes proposal for a refurbed GP should be the blue print used by our board. We could even make the Park End into a giant single tier structure (bigger than the RS Kop). Then we could shove that in faces of those shite fans...
But things have been scarely quiet on the ground move/refurb front since DK was abandoned.
The naming rights were also to be sold off to the highest bidder, I have been told that Chang have offered Everton a substantial amount for naming rights at Goodison (can't disprove or verify this).
The shared stadium, for me, is a non-starter; you only have to look at the Allianz Arena and the disasterous situation Munich 1860 found themselves in when they shared with Bayern to see we currently cannot hope to fill a shared ground the way even an unsuccessful Liverpool would.
I believe that Everton never had the monies for the Kirby Project and the board heaved a huge sigh of relief when it was binned.
I don't expect this board to do anything in the foreseeable future to move the ground situation forward, my opinion is their dream was to get the OK for Kirby then sell off their shares, therefore handing on the building costs to future owners.
Make the buggers suffer - just like we did for many years. Supposed icons of English football like Highbury didn't even have a roof on them and Stamford Bridge was an utter shit-hole requiring binoculars to see the far end of the pitch.
Greg Murphy: I know you keep writing in WSAG saying you are going senile, but it was not 6 months since Kirkby got knocked back. November 25-April 26 is 5 months and a day. Ask your nurse to check! :)
But I do agree it has flown by and I might also add that it is right up there with beating Manure and Chelsea as one of the highlights of this season.
It would then virtually limit the amount of obstructed view seats sold... as, if you look at our average gates, the only time we would sell obstructed views would be when our gates rose above 40-42,000, and how many times a season do you think that would be, given the craze for arab channel pub viewing these days?
I have made a great number of suggestions to the Club (including the co-option of KEIOC to the project group) and have always met with the response that there is no money available even to embark on a phased re-development.
I know that a number of grant applications have been made for funding but in the present climate there can be little prospect of public money — local or national — being made available to a Premier League football club.
Therefore it will not be available to do anything wtih the current stadium as we can't sell it!
So to increase the Park End provides another 9,000 seats, but that won't generate much extra cash. What we need is More corporate spaces and facilities which generate real income
The stadium currently must be worthless, scrap value only. The area would need a massive influx of private and government money to make the land values increase, money which is earmarked for Project Jennifer.
That £15M would still leave £63m unaccounted for... naming rights?
Maybe the club should look at introducing lounges that are more like bars with pub grub in any new refurb that more Blues could afford.
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1 Posted 27/04/2010 at 12:40:41
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Liverpool Council have been less than co-operative, and I think KEIOC's new project is a positive step in making sure Goodison is redeveloped.