The Mail Bag
Everton not in Europe
Comments (121)
Having watched the Barca – Inter Milan game last night, it left me thinking that perhaps in some respects i would be quite happy for Everton not to qualify for Europe this next season.
The amount of play-acting, gamesmanship, professionalism — call it what you will — bloody cheating if you ask me. I mean that idiot that got sent off, it was ridiculous, he even had the audacity to check if people were watching.
The way the game seems to be going at the moment, you won't be able to touch anyone without getting booked. When did football become a non-contact sport? last night's game, i was really looking forward too... I know the rules have changed, and there are certain aspects of the game that are not acceptable anymore, but it was a really poor effort from too supposedly excellent top-quality football teams, who seemed to want nothing more than to roll about on the floor and gain advantage, either through free kicks or penalties.
I just think Everton don't need to be a part of that.
Mark Hill, Posted 29/04/2010 at 07:58:54
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Off the original topic slightly, but that was one hell of an example of how to "Park the Bus" and defend a lead. It strikes me that quite often we've failed to do it adequatley when we have tried / needed to - that was a master class! Don't get me wrong, I prefer an open attractive game of football and competing on an even keel, but sometimes being able to do that is one hell of a good trick to have up your sleeve when the odds are stacked against you.
"I just think Everton don't need to be a part of that."
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Never seen Cahill's routine then?
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Never seen Cahill's routine then?
Ciaran,
What is Cahill's routine?
What is Cahill's routine?
You're not wrong there Ciarán, Heitinga is also the master of the sly foul / leaning into players. The Yak also has issues with his balance in and around the box, shall we say. Not to mention the ease Arteta can go down under a challenge.
No use pretending our players are saints, they aren't. The myth of the morally upstanding all conquering team is just that - a myth. Someone care me to name a team full of saints who have ever won anything?
No use pretending our players are saints, they aren't. The myth of the morally upstanding all conquering team is just that - a myth. Someone care me to name a team full of saints who have ever won anything?
"What is Cahill's routine?"
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At times, a rather unsavoury mixture of play acting and goading opposing players.
Then there's Yakubu and big Vic...
People seem to think we have a team of saints.
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At times, a rather unsavoury mixture of play acting and goading opposing players.
Then there's Yakubu and big Vic...
People seem to think we have a team of saints.
None of us say shit about Arteta and Pienaar 'winning' free kicks.
And despite the cheating last night, Everton wouldn't've stood a chance anyway. Players like Neville, Osman, Anichebe and even Howard in goal wouldn't've stood a chance.
And despite the cheating last night, Everton wouldn't've stood a chance anyway. Players like Neville, Osman, Anichebe and even Howard in goal wouldn't've stood a chance.
I personally hate all the abuse given to Osman/Neville... it's not their fault to a certain extent as they (nearly) always give 100%. However, it's when you visualise an Everton line-up against Inter or Barca that these are the players which would be our weak link. And managers such as Mourinho would exploit this weakness further.
Europe brings a number of benefits: we are a more attractive proposition to potential recruits; we learn and improve; fans see some interesting games; and eventually we get to test ourselves against the best. I don’t like the play acting and some of the tactics, but if you want to be amongst the roses, then you have to put up with the odd prick. (I know, help yourselves)
My problem with Europe is fighting all season to get there, and then the Board or whoever failing to provide adequate funds for a squad of sufficient size to compete effectively. I know we were especially unlucky with injuries to key players last year, but in Europe we were a car crash waiting to happen.
My problem with Europe is fighting all season to get there, and then the Board or whoever failing to provide adequate funds for a squad of sufficient size to compete effectively. I know we were especially unlucky with injuries to key players last year, but in Europe we were a car crash waiting to happen.
Ciaran,
Could you point to any spefic examples of Cahill "play acting"?
Could you point to any spefic examples of Cahill "play acting"?
I think European football is also very important to Everton's players. We have some seriously good players now and they clearly want to appear on the European stage. Tim Cahill is already questioning his future without European football:
http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2557/news/2010/04/29/1900693/tim-cahill-if-everton-dont-get-european-qualification-i
http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2557/news/2010/04/29/1900693/tim-cahill-if-everton-dont-get-european-qualification-i
"Ciaran,
Could you point to any spefic examples of Cahill "play acting"? "
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Yeah, Loads.
Are you suggesting he doesn't?
Could you point to any spefic examples of Cahill "play acting"? "
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Yeah, Loads.
Are you suggesting he doesn't?
Ciaran,
I'm not suggesting he does or he doesn't. I was simply interested in your opinion that he does.
As you have loads of examples, please could you mention some?
I'm not suggesting he does or he doesn't. I was simply interested in your opinion that he does.
As you have loads of examples, please could you mention some?
Firstly, Tim Cahill does not mention leaving at all. That story on 'goal.com' refers to the Official site and an interview on there. He is quoted as saying that at this stage in his career he needs to be playing in Europe. I wouldn't expect him to say anything else. I'm sure all the players would say that. He does not, however, suggest that he will leave if we do not qualify for Europe. Just another bit of inventive journalism on goal.com's part if you ask me!
Secondly, there is a world of difference between exaggerating a foul to make sure the free-kick is given, which is what Arteta and Pienaar are adept at and purely inventing a foul and fooling the referee into giving it. The first is an insurance policy, the second is a scam. Diving or professional fouling is not something we are unduly exposed to with Everton. If you want to see that regularly, it would be better to spend time watching Liverpool.
As for Cahill, the lad uses his weight when challenging for the ball which has only been regarded as a foul by some referees over recent years. Previously, leaning-on like that was a legitimate part of the game. One of the best at it was Graeme Sharpe!
Motta did commit a foul last night but should never have been sent of for it as a straight red. The biggest prick last night was not Motta but the referee who played to the crowd and spoiled the game.
Secondly, there is a world of difference between exaggerating a foul to make sure the free-kick is given, which is what Arteta and Pienaar are adept at and purely inventing a foul and fooling the referee into giving it. The first is an insurance policy, the second is a scam. Diving or professional fouling is not something we are unduly exposed to with Everton. If you want to see that regularly, it would be better to spend time watching Liverpool.
As for Cahill, the lad uses his weight when challenging for the ball which has only been regarded as a foul by some referees over recent years. Previously, leaning-on like that was a legitimate part of the game. One of the best at it was Graeme Sharpe!
Motta did commit a foul last night but should never have been sent of for it as a straight red. The biggest prick last night was not Motta but the referee who played to the crowd and spoiled the game.
"I'm not suggesting he does or he doesn't. I was simply interested in your opinion that he does."
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And I'm interested in yours... do you think he doesn't goad opposing players, or play act?
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And I'm interested in yours... do you think he doesn't goad opposing players, or play act?
Concerning the game last night... although spoiled in many respects by the referee's incompetence, I found it fascinating.
The acolytic fawning over Barcelona recently (none more so than by the ITV commentators last night) has been a little bit over the top to say the least! The pretty-pretty stuff is ok if your playing Arsenal (who let you play it because that is how they like to play) or most of the usual competition in La Liga, but they were just incapable of breaking down Inter who were demonstrating that there is another side to the game to the pretty stuff.
What occurred to me was just how good are Barcelona because they seemed totally incapable of adapting their game. Plan A was all they had and as Inter would not allow them to play Plan A they made very little impact even though their goalkeeper was able to play on the halfway line for most of the match.
To be great a team has to be adaptable and able to play effectively against all kinds of opposition. Barcelona cannot and are not as great as some would have us think!
The acolytic fawning over Barcelona recently (none more so than by the ITV commentators last night) has been a little bit over the top to say the least! The pretty-pretty stuff is ok if your playing Arsenal (who let you play it because that is how they like to play) or most of the usual competition in La Liga, but they were just incapable of breaking down Inter who were demonstrating that there is another side to the game to the pretty stuff.
What occurred to me was just how good are Barcelona because they seemed totally incapable of adapting their game. Plan A was all they had and as Inter would not allow them to play Plan A they made very little impact even though their goalkeeper was able to play on the halfway line for most of the match.
To be great a team has to be adaptable and able to play effectively against all kinds of opposition. Barcelona cannot and are not as great as some would have us think!
Ciaran,
Stop answering questions with questions...it is fucking annoying! Give the lad the example he reasonably requested. You made the statement, now you evidence it.
Stop answering questions with questions...it is fucking annoying! Give the lad the example he reasonably requested. You made the statement, now you evidence it.
Ciarán McGlone - I have never, ever ever ever ever seen Cahill play act. Arteta ? Yes. Cahill. Sorry but nope. Goading players? If you mean does he get up other players noses then yes he does and he would not be half the player if he didn't. Craig Bellamy is the same and I'd be delighted if we signed him.
Dave,
I don't need to evidence the statement. I consider it pretty fucking obvious. He does it every game - and the incidents are so petty.
But just to satisfy your little need to have his ridiculous request answered - he once goaded Boa Morte for and entire game until he got a reaction out of him and got him sent off.
But I suppose that'll not be enough eh!
I don't need to evidence the statement. I consider it pretty fucking obvious. He does it every game - and the incidents are so petty.
But just to satisfy your little need to have his ridiculous request answered - he once goaded Boa Morte for and entire game until he got a reaction out of him and got him sent off.
But I suppose that'll not be enough eh!
Ciaran,
I personally don't think he is guilty of play acting.
Please could you state some of the loads of examples were you think he has been guilty of it?
I personally don't think he is guilty of play acting.
Please could you state some of the loads of examples were you think he has been guilty of it?
No, not really David.
If you didn't think they were play acting when you seen them, then my attempt to put then into words will hardly convince you.
If you didn't think they were play acting when you seen them, then my attempt to put then into words will hardly convince you.
Andy Morden: "Someone care me to name a team full of saints who have ever won anything?"
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Southampton, 1976. my first (viewing of an) FA Cup final.
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Southampton, 1976. my first (viewing of an) FA Cup final.
Dave Roberts, David Thomas, Gareth Humphreys: I'm with you all. C McG (15) takes a previous comment and quotes only the part that he can respond to with a question whilst totally avoiding the second and most important part of the comment:– "As you have loads of examples, please could you mention some?"
That is a very simple request and one which you should respond to to prove your bold statement.
My opinion of Tim Cahill in this respect — he hounds, badgers, annoys defenders. A thorn in their side so to speak and as far as I can see he borders right on the line of legality. It's obviously something that referees are able to overlook as his suspension record reads quite well.
But play-acting?.......Put me on record to categorically state that you are wrong. No way is he a play actor.
That is a very simple request and one which you should respond to to prove your bold statement.
My opinion of Tim Cahill in this respect — he hounds, badgers, annoys defenders. A thorn in their side so to speak and as far as I can see he borders right on the line of legality. It's obviously something that referees are able to overlook as his suspension record reads quite well.
But play-acting?.......Put me on record to categorically state that you are wrong. No way is he a play actor.
The actual discussion was meant to be about the play acting and general way players just fall over when someone near them farts; it's completely ridiculous, grown men rolling about on the floor like someone has put the right boot through there left testical and then suddenly, when the card ensues, they appear perfectly fine.
As for the 'arm in the face' thing, to me, that wasn't even a card offence, look at his poise his balance where his eyes are, the ref was complete crap. If he was refereeing in this country he would have most games abandoned. Simply because sometimes someone would be touched, fall over, and thus send them off.
I am so falling out of love with football at the moment it isn't true, and I'm only 36. They should get their act together, those who make the rules and sort the referees and players pronto.
A niggling foul with no intention of getting the ball...usually accompanied by a look of bemusement followed by a wry smile.
He rarely gets caught.
At the prospect of invoking the wrath of the Cahill crew, I'll head for the hills.
ps: I don't think Arteta play acts at all... I simply think his footballing skill attracts a lot of fouls.
He rarely gets caught.
At the prospect of invoking the wrath of the Cahill crew, I'll head for the hills.
ps: I don't think Arteta play acts at all... I simply think his footballing skill attracts a lot of fouls.
Cairan, you should head for the hills because you've clearly made a mis-statement and are now trying everything you can to justify it. The example you have given can in no way be described as play-acting. Cahill does all the other stuff, but nothing I have seen him do qualifies as play-acting.
Eat the pie, lad!
Eat the pie, lad!
Cahill play acts but they're not major incidents that you'd remember the time and game. I'm sure at least three times I've seen him handball and hold his head as if it hit him there. I've even seen referees give the free kick and laugh at Cahill as if to say 'nice try'.
I'm surprised by the mention of Pienaar and especially Arteta. There's a huge difference between inviting a foul and legitimately accepting it when it comes, and outright diving and play acting.
I'm surprised by the mention of Pienaar and especially Arteta. There's a huge difference between inviting a foul and legitimately accepting it when it comes, and outright diving and play acting.
Ciaran,
Fair enough if you don't want to share the loads of examples that you have then that is your choice. I just thought that seeing you brought Cahill into the debate and stated that you had examples you would be willing to list a few.
Fair enough if you don't want to share the loads of examples that you have then that is your choice. I just thought that seeing you brought Cahill into the debate and stated that you had examples you would be willing to list a few.
Back to the original post.....I agree with you Mark, it was VERY poor. The play acting by the Inter players was as bad as I have seen (since the 2002 World Cup, in which nearly every game was runied by cheats).
Couldn't believe there was only 4 minutes of Injury time!!! I would have been a lot less suprised if 14 had been shown on the board.
We have our fair share of players that know how to gain an advantage, Cahill, Arteta and Pienaar to name a few, but I'd like to think if they would be boo'd off the pitch at Goodison and fined by Mr Moyes if they took it to the extent we saw last night.
Couldn't believe there was only 4 minutes of Injury time!!! I would have been a lot less suprised if 14 had been shown on the board.
We have our fair share of players that know how to gain an advantage, Cahill, Arteta and Pienaar to name a few, but I'd like to think if they would be boo'd off the pitch at Goodison and fined by Mr Moyes if they took it to the extent we saw last night.
I keep sticking up for Ciaran, I dunno where that's come from, but is anyone going to tell me they've never seen the Tim Cahill handball-hold-head routine?
As for the OP, I've long had the solution to this problem. Have a disciplinary committee go through tape of every match and hand out retrospective punishments for all diving, feigning injury and play acting. A couple of ten match bans for the likes of Sergio Busquets and the problem would disappear pretty much instantly.
As for the OP, I've long had the solution to this problem. Have a disciplinary committee go through tape of every match and hand out retrospective punishments for all diving, feigning injury and play acting. A couple of ten match bans for the likes of Sergio Busquets and the problem would disappear pretty much instantly.
Prime Minister, can you give an example of where the extra £30billion in cuts will come from?
Ciarán, can you give us an example of Cahill play acting?
Ciarán, can you give us an example of Cahill play acting?
I'm afraid not Micheal...no mis-statement here. Simply an opinion.
When he was involved in that incident with Boa Morte he went down like a sack of spuds... Unjustifiably, in my opinion.
Anyway, I consider play-acting to be much more than rolling around on the floor like a war casualty — I think it includes any act that involves trying to con the ref...Including the provocation of other players. Something that he does with intent regularly.
Maybe I'll bring a notebook to my next sitting — Although it won't be the Stoke match as I'll be flying the red flag.
When he was involved in that incident with Boa Morte he went down like a sack of spuds... Unjustifiably, in my opinion.
Anyway, I consider play-acting to be much more than rolling around on the floor like a war casualty — I think it includes any act that involves trying to con the ref...Including the provocation of other players. Something that he does with intent regularly.
Maybe I'll bring a notebook to my next sitting — Although it won't be the Stoke match as I'll be flying the red flag.
Haven't I done that? Hello? Can anybody hear me?!
Mike,
My Boa-morte example appeared to go largely ignored as well..
That hand ball - bemused look - wry smile thing is a regular thing as well.
I think they're looking dates and times... I would've thought Cahill's play acting was obvious to anyone who watches the games regularly. Clearly not.
Just me and you.
My Boa-morte example appeared to go largely ignored as well..
That hand ball - bemused look - wry smile thing is a regular thing as well.
I think they're looking dates and times... I would've thought Cahill's play acting was obvious to anyone who watches the games regularly. Clearly not.
Just me and you.
Your Honour! You call it rape, I call it suprise sex!
Redefining terminology. This is getting better Ciarán!
Redefining terminology. This is getting better Ciarán!
Roberto Birquet - haha, good shout! You also highlighted how I arsed up the order of my words in my 'sentence', but at least you knew what I meant!
Play acting — would Cahill looking innocent and wide eyed, arms stretched out wide in a "who, me?" gesture after committing a niggly foul count?
The Merriam Webster online dictionary offers the following definitions:
1 a: to take part in theatrical performances especially as a professional b: to make believe;
2: to engage in theatrical or insincere behavior
Perhaps Cahill's onfield antics may come under description 2?
Fair dinkum, I'm glad he's on our side — everyone else does it, you need that bit of devilment in your team. Morally it probably isn't right, but everyone else does it...
Play acting — would Cahill looking innocent and wide eyed, arms stretched out wide in a "who, me?" gesture after committing a niggly foul count?
The Merriam Webster online dictionary offers the following definitions:
1 a: to take part in theatrical performances especially as a professional b: to make believe;
2: to engage in theatrical or insincere behavior
Perhaps Cahill's onfield antics may come under description 2?
Fair dinkum, I'm glad he's on our side — everyone else does it, you need that bit of devilment in your team. Morally it probably isn't right, but everyone else does it...
Nick Entwhistle - Surprise sex! Quality, wonder how many pro-footballers have used that line in court?
Motta should have been sent off in the first match. He's no better than an assassin and the rest of his team mates are quite handy as well. I regret the way football is going. The referees punish normal contact as well as the obvious fouls and yet nevcer give penalties for obvious offences in the box. Sadly that is modern day football.
Ciaran,
Was that incident with Cahill in his Fulham or West Ham days?
Was that incident with Cahill in his Fulham or West Ham days?
What is the offical Entwistle's dictionary definition of 'play-acting'?
Of course, I wouldn't want to be accused of contradicting official sources of terminology.
Of course, I wouldn't want to be accused of contradicting official sources of terminology.
Get a grip Ciarán, you're talking shite.
Can Mr McGloomy fill us in on way he hates Tim Cahill so much?
Certainly agree with all the theatrics that goes on in Europe, especially Spain and Italy. Roll about 50,000 times like you've been shot in the back. Didn't Saha get sent off against Athens?
In fact, closer to home, I can think of one diving fucker of a starfish across the park!
In fact, closer to home, I can think of one diving fucker of a starfish across the park!
Ah, the Cahill routine...
I didn't think you`d be familiar with that little phrase over in Belfast. It's a term used by all the young lads who work in our distribution, it entails lying on the floor holding your head with one hand and lifting the other in the air to signal distress. They usually employ this tactic during their Sunday morning game, when they are either on the verge of throwing up last night's beer, or they are just blowing out of their arses, they all take the piss when one of them has gone through the "Cahill routine".
Tim uses it regularly and has done for years, once he realises he isn't getting booked, he`s up like a shot, right as rain. In fact, he does it so often, I`ll go one better than say the last time he did it; I`ll predict the next time... the next time he plays.
If you ain't seen the "Cahill routine", you ain't been watching Everton.
Lads, silly names won't disprove my point.
Cahill may not be a unashamed diver....but he definitely play acts to con the ref. He's very good at it.
The fact that he's willing to do that for everton, may be rather commendable - the fact that you lot don't recognise it - is rather amazing.
By the way, Mr Traverse - I don't hate Cahill. That's a rather daft thing to say. Hardly unexpected though.
Cahill may not be a unashamed diver....but he definitely play acts to con the ref. He's very good at it.
The fact that he's willing to do that for everton, may be rather commendable - the fact that you lot don't recognise it - is rather amazing.
By the way, Mr Traverse - I don't hate Cahill. That's a rather daft thing to say. Hardly unexpected though.
Dave,
One of my favourites is when he double checks with the bk of his hand to see that he's not bleeding...Classic Cahill.
One of my favourites is when he double checks with the bk of his hand to see that he's not bleeding...Classic Cahill.
My favourite is when he`s checking his elbow hasn't been dislocated.
Tim only ever fakes injury to portray himself as victim rather than perpetrator, an attempt to keep himself out of the referee's book, he doesn't seem in the business of getting fellow pros carded.
Not sure the match has been played where the Tiger was an innocent victim... long may that continue.
Tim only ever fakes injury to portray himself as victim rather than perpetrator, an attempt to keep himself out of the referee's book, he doesn't seem in the business of getting fellow pros carded.
Not sure the match has been played where the Tiger was an innocent victim... long may that continue.
Ciaran. Every post you make which continues something about Tim Cahill always contains somekind of negative comment.
I think you should have a bit more respect for a player that has give everything he's got and more for the last 6 years.
I think you should have a bit more respect for a player that has give everything he's got and more for the last 6 years.
Talking of Europe.
The guy on the PA system at Anfield just put a call out for somebody from Norway...
Ha Ha, the fucken place went silent as everyone looked at each other.
The guy on the PA system at Anfield just put a call out for somebody from Norway...
Ha Ha, the fucken place went silent as everyone looked at each other.
Dave,
You probably recall the Boa Morte incident... I'm not so sure he's always only interested in protecting himself...
Great Evertonian though.
You probably recall the Boa Morte incident... I'm not so sure he's always only interested in protecting himself...
Great Evertonian though.
Quite often he is bleeding
And Ciaran, you get to see Nolan next season — there's a treat for you.
And Ciaran, you get to see Nolan next season — there's a treat for you.
Ciaran,
When did this incident with Boa Morte happen?
When did this incident with Boa Morte happen?
Are we talking Cahill being niggly or hard, Ciaran?
The most skilful Everton side I've ever seen had Johnny Morrissey in it. Luckily, you're too young to have seen him or the likes of Jimmy Gabriel, Dennis Stevens, Tony Kay, Pyscho Pat and Peter Reid play... you'd have wet yourself (or fainted).
The most skilful Everton side I've ever seen had Johnny Morrissey in it. Luckily, you're too young to have seen him or the likes of Jimmy Gabriel, Dennis Stevens, Tony Kay, Pyscho Pat and Peter Reid play... you'd have wet yourself (or fainted).
Dave (Wilson)..... Classic .
In one sentence you brought a smile back to my face after reading children's hour on Tim Cahill.
In one sentence you brought a smile back to my face after reading children's hour on Tim Cahill.
Yes, Ciaran;
The crowd were pissing themselves laughing at the "recovery" in the Boa Morte incident. I thought it was embarrassing, but I also thought it was slightly out of character.
Phil; I can't recall much about Dennis Stevens, but the other players you mention were IMO not too bothered about injuring opponents. I think the Tiger could be described more as combative than dirty.
Very true, Dave
He is a niggly, gobby, street-wise player but, in fairness, takes a lot of knocks
We'd all hate him if he `belonged' to a rival team
He is a niggly, gobby, street-wise player but, in fairness, takes a lot of knocks
We'd all hate him if he `belonged' to a rival team
Phil you forgot to mention Alex Parker the finest sliding Tackler I've ever seen.
The likes of Ronaldo would be rolling over for 15 minutes after one of his tackles but always fair.
The likes of Ronaldo would be rolling over for 15 minutes after one of his tackles but always fair.
stop fucking arguing l/pool r loooooosin'
better than that Brian lad, they`re out
Exactly Brian- fucking YESSSSSSSSS!!! The boys in black do us proud FTRS!!
You bunch are TOO much. This was a fun thread to read. Laughed out loud 2-3 times.
That aside, agree with Mark Hills post. Pretty embarassing what goes on. But if the referree is weak (and let's not pretend; the players know the weak ones from the strong), the home team has a distinct advantage. Very unfortunate and a discredit to the game.
That aside, agree with Mark Hills post. Pretty embarassing what goes on. But if the referree is weak (and let's not pretend; the players know the weak ones from the strong), the home team has a distinct advantage. Very unfortunate and a discredit to the game.
Dirk Kuyt ha ha ha. Down like a sack of spuds... what, no red card? Oh, I might as well get up then.
I don't remember the Boa Morte incident but that scumbag deserves anything Timmy can do to him, he's on a par with El Hadj Diouf for me, although Diouf's never bitten one of our players as far as I can remember.
I don't remember the Boa Morte incident but that scumbag deserves anything Timmy can do to him, he's on a par with El Hadj Diouf for me, although Diouf's never bitten one of our players as far as I can remember.
I'd rather win fair... BUT I'd also rather win cheating than draw or lose.
I love Cahill's mischief — particularly at corners. Cracks me up every time!
Dave Wilson — great shout! I pissed myself laughing when George Sephton made that announcement to the Norwegian in the Kop, and I expect JLA is full of the miserable feckers waiting for Easy jet right now!!
Let's sign Forlan!!
Dave Wilson — great shout! I pissed myself laughing when George Sephton made that announcement to the Norwegian in the Kop, and I expect JLA is full of the miserable feckers waiting for Easy jet right now!!
Let's sign Forlan!!
As Ciaran is not replying to my message, can anyone else please confirm which game he is talking about that involved Cahill getting Boa Morte sent off?
I made a response at #63 in the thread 'Are we going to support Liverpool' that made my position clear. Shame on you if you said 'yes' as part of the same debate, in the vain attempt that we might sneak a Europa Cup place; Liverpool win a Cup so we might compete in Europe (even though Uefa rules mean we can't anyway should we finish 8th in the PL).
Bollocks. Fortunately for you, there will be no open-topped bus city tour. As things stand, we might finish 7th (long shot, I know), but maybe, maybe. If not, so be it, but don't offer an 'out' into Europe via the success of others, particularly if it's them.
Ciaran McG has spouted shite on here for ages!! It usually involves copy and paste and an attempt at humour. It's hilarious reading his attempts to justify himself on this one.
Ciaran when you're in a hole — stopping digging fella!!!
Ciaran when you're in a hole — stopping digging fella!!!
Ciaran
Despite your bias, animosity to Cahill and puerile attempts at sarcasm... Tim Cahill will become an Everton Legend, up there The Rat, Labone, Gabriel and the best of `em.
Despite your bias, animosity to Cahill and puerile attempts at sarcasm... Tim Cahill will become an Everton Legend, up there The Rat, Labone, Gabriel and the best of `em.
Give me a team with Alex Young, Dave Thomas and Mikel Arteta protected by Tim, Bally, Mick Lyons and Peter Reid.
And... come on Fulham!
Phil
You re right of course, although he isn't the most gifted of players, Cahill is an Everton Legend. He`s my own personal favourite... but you have to admit there is a scally element to his nature ("I didn't do it, ref") ... maybe that's why he`s so loved.
I`m stunned at the reaction to Ciaran`s claims, the people who want to believe the Tiger doesn't attempt to con the referee are either wearing Blue denial specs or just not watching Everton.
There was a big argument about "dozy questions" recently on another thread, but to ask a question like name an incident when Cahill has tried to con the ref is right up there with questions like:
When was the last time captain Pip miscontrolled a pass then turned around to his team mates and told THEM to clam down?
When was the last time Saha didn't get a foul/pen and went hysterically pleading to some imaginary fourth official in the top balcony to overturn the refs decision?
Name me a time Tim Howard kicked fuck out of a goal post?
Give an example of "nipping to the toilet" at half time and not getting back to your seat until 5 minutes after the restart, with your kecks soaked up to the knees in piss?
I couldn't tell you the answer to any of the above, but none of you lot would bet a penny against them all happening again in the last two games.
The dumbest questions are very often the hardest to answer.
You re right of course, although he isn't the most gifted of players, Cahill is an Everton Legend. He`s my own personal favourite... but you have to admit there is a scally element to his nature ("I didn't do it, ref") ... maybe that's why he`s so loved.
I`m stunned at the reaction to Ciaran`s claims, the people who want to believe the Tiger doesn't attempt to con the referee are either wearing Blue denial specs or just not watching Everton.
There was a big argument about "dozy questions" recently on another thread, but to ask a question like name an incident when Cahill has tried to con the ref is right up there with questions like:
When was the last time captain Pip miscontrolled a pass then turned around to his team mates and told THEM to clam down?
When was the last time Saha didn't get a foul/pen and went hysterically pleading to some imaginary fourth official in the top balcony to overturn the refs decision?
Name me a time Tim Howard kicked fuck out of a goal post?
Give an example of "nipping to the toilet" at half time and not getting back to your seat until 5 minutes after the restart, with your kecks soaked up to the knees in piss?
I couldn't tell you the answer to any of the above, but none of you lot would bet a penny against them all happening again in the last two games.
The dumbest questions are very often the hardest to answer.
I still think Yak's attempts to dive are hillarious, he even dives in installments.
Cahill is the kind of player you would hate to have against your team, a talented Savage if you will!
Cahill is the kind of player you would hate to have against your team, a talented Savage if you will!
I agree about Cahill, he is one of the nastiest dirtiest players in the PL and he shames me sometimes. As an Evertonian though it's easy to miss it, I have seen tons of it and I specifically watch for it. He also holds a nasty grudge too and has been booked and sent off for exacting his revenge. Seriously, we forgive him because he wears the blue, we'd scream for him to be off sometimes if he didn't...
Phil,
I have no problem with Cahill's tackling, when he actually wants to get the ball. In those instances, I think he's hard but fair... a commendable example.
However, whenever he's not interested in getting the ball, he has a tendency to have a go at goading players with niggling fouls, clipping their heels etc... That's the goading part..
The play acting part is whenever he uses theatrics to try and influence the ref... as documented in the instances above.
For the record I think Tim's loves this club — and I love him for that. Just because I criticise him for certain characteristics doesn't mitigate this one bit.
The point of the article was about theatrics in football... unfortunately it pervades the game — and I don't think we can realistically criticses others for it without recognising our own failings. I mean, the Yak is probably one of the worst offenders in the Premier League... Do I love him? You bet.
I have no problem with Cahill's tackling, when he actually wants to get the ball. In those instances, I think he's hard but fair... a commendable example.
However, whenever he's not interested in getting the ball, he has a tendency to have a go at goading players with niggling fouls, clipping their heels etc... That's the goading part..
The play acting part is whenever he uses theatrics to try and influence the ref... as documented in the instances above.
For the record I think Tim's loves this club — and I love him for that. Just because I criticise him for certain characteristics doesn't mitigate this one bit.
The point of the article was about theatrics in football... unfortunately it pervades the game — and I don't think we can realistically criticses others for it without recognising our own failings. I mean, the Yak is probably one of the worst offenders in the Premier League... Do I love him? You bet.
By the way, I'm not overly concerned that a lot of people above choose not to see this in Cahill...That's human nature - ignore the worst in your own..
What i'd be more concerned about is a group hullicination by the numerous people above who quite clearly agree with me.
What i'd be more concerned about is a group hullicination by the numerous people above who quite clearly agree with me.
Some Evertonians are full of excuses.
Even saying not getting into Europe is a good thing?
Some of my best memories are from sitting at home on a Wednesday or Thursday night not being in Europe. Ha ha.
Even saying not getting into Europe is a good thing?
Some of my best memories are from sitting at home on a Wednesday or Thursday night not being in Europe. Ha ha.
You're a slippery fellow Ciarán.
Now we may have Andy Morden who takes out the dictionary to give a literal definition, but we’re talking here with footballing context to the word play-acting.
You want me to give a definition? I prefer to use your definition from earlier posts to that of Post 31 when you take it upon yourself to change the definition.
Post 6: On Cahill 'At times, a rather unsavoury mixture of play acting and goading opposing players'.
Here you clearly show you believe in a difference between one action and another of being to goad.
Post 14: ‘And I'm interested in yours: do you think he doesn't goad opposing players, or play act’?
And for a second time you clearly separate different behaviours.
Post 24: ‘ps: I don't think Arteta play acts at all... I simply think his footballing skill attracts a lot of fouls’.
Here again making reference that play-acting comes from pretending to be fouled in the tackle.
Now in Post 31, after failing to placate those who question you with some non-specific incident involving Boa Morte (your only reference to Cahill play-acting, despite there being ‘loads’), you only then state ‘I consider play-acting to be much more than rolling around on the floor like a war casualty — any act that involves trying to con the ref... Including the provocation of other players.’ That’s not what you were saying before.
You know what? Yes, if we ourselves retrospectively change the footballing terminology of play-acting to what you retrospectively changed it to, we can all agree you’re right, Cahill does play act.
Or, or you could be wrong?
(Now if the bloke from the council has stopped with his leaf blower, I may be able to go back to do some work.)
Now we may have Andy Morden who takes out the dictionary to give a literal definition, but we’re talking here with footballing context to the word play-acting.
You want me to give a definition? I prefer to use your definition from earlier posts to that of Post 31 when you take it upon yourself to change the definition.
Post 6: On Cahill 'At times, a rather unsavoury mixture of play acting and goading opposing players'.
Here you clearly show you believe in a difference between one action and another of being to goad.
Post 14: ‘And I'm interested in yours: do you think he doesn't goad opposing players, or play act’?
And for a second time you clearly separate different behaviours.
Post 24: ‘ps: I don't think Arteta play acts at all... I simply think his footballing skill attracts a lot of fouls’.
Here again making reference that play-acting comes from pretending to be fouled in the tackle.
Now in Post 31, after failing to placate those who question you with some non-specific incident involving Boa Morte (your only reference to Cahill play-acting, despite there being ‘loads’), you only then state ‘I consider play-acting to be much more than rolling around on the floor like a war casualty — any act that involves trying to con the ref... Including the provocation of other players.’ That’s not what you were saying before.
You know what? Yes, if we ourselves retrospectively change the footballing terminology of play-acting to what you retrospectively changed it to, we can all agree you’re right, Cahill does play act.
Or, or you could be wrong?
(Now if the bloke from the council has stopped with his leaf blower, I may be able to go back to do some work.)
To take a slightly different slant on this...
I am pretty sickened and put off following a sport where the all too frequent answer to a fast skillful player is a bootful of studs across their shins or calves. The result is intended to be at the very least 'don't you try that here' and at the worst injury and extended layoffs, weakening the opposing team for many months in some cases — witness Newcastle away last season. The offender might miss the next 3 matches at worst, that for me is blatant cheating.
Is diving and acting not part of the skillful player's reply to brute force? Hacking the opposing players down is popular when it is your team doing the hacking. What chance players like Arteta and Pienaar to play a full season when every match takes another piece out of one of their legs?
'Its a man's game' is trotted out in defence of this and many enjoy that side of the game (indeed arguably that is one aspect of the Premier League that makes it different to other 'less exciting' leagues) but is that good enough when players end up with leg fractures — occasionally extremely horrifying virtual foot detachments?
While we still run 'a man's game' we will have 'diving and play acting' — they are two sides of the same coin.
I am pretty sickened and put off following a sport where the all too frequent answer to a fast skillful player is a bootful of studs across their shins or calves. The result is intended to be at the very least 'don't you try that here' and at the worst injury and extended layoffs, weakening the opposing team for many months in some cases — witness Newcastle away last season. The offender might miss the next 3 matches at worst, that for me is blatant cheating.
Is diving and acting not part of the skillful player's reply to brute force? Hacking the opposing players down is popular when it is your team doing the hacking. What chance players like Arteta and Pienaar to play a full season when every match takes another piece out of one of their legs?
'Its a man's game' is trotted out in defence of this and many enjoy that side of the game (indeed arguably that is one aspect of the Premier League that makes it different to other 'less exciting' leagues) but is that good enough when players end up with leg fractures — occasionally extremely horrifying virtual foot detachments?
While we still run 'a man's game' we will have 'diving and play acting' — they are two sides of the same coin.
Entwistle's concise eh!
The dictionary that avoids giving defintions at all costs.
The dictionary that avoids giving defintions at all costs.
Ciaran. You're talking shite over this 'incident' with Boa Morte as I couldn't recall it so have done a little bit of research and can confirm Cahill has NEVER got this particular player sent off.
Actually Ste,
It might not have been Boa Morte....Dark blue top, possibly Newcastle – Ameobi perhaps.
I'm sure if I got the player wrong you'll hang, dry and quarter me... irrespective of the facts of the incident being correct.
If I've got the player wrong – you can get the bunting out and crack open a bottle of champagne.
It might not have been Boa Morte....Dark blue top, possibly Newcastle – Ameobi perhaps.
I'm sure if I got the player wrong you'll hang, dry and quarter me... irrespective of the facts of the incident being correct.
If I've got the player wrong – you can get the bunting out and crack open a bottle of champagne.
I think you might be referring to Olivier Bernard at Newcastle........it's ringing a bell but it's hardly conclusive evidence that Cahill is a play actor. Niggly bastard, definitely... but I would say he accentuates the little push/kick but not an overt diver like those mentioned in the opening post.
Remember when Cahill did that thing with that player against some team in that season one time? It was like totally like you know...
It wasnt Boa Morte that got sent off, although he was booked and had a running battle with Cahill. (Horrible git has a long history against us and Tim wasn't shirking anything.)
Cahill incurred the wrath of the travelling Hammers after one particular clash, he lay motionless — seemingly dead — only to get to his feet and sprint like a greyhound when we broke away.
I think it was Tomkins that was sent off... for a foul on Cahill, might be wrong, either way. Saha buried the resulting penalty.
Cahill incurred the wrath of the travelling Hammers after one particular clash, he lay motionless — seemingly dead — only to get to his feet and sprint like a greyhound when we broke away.
I think it was Tomkins that was sent off... for a foul on Cahill, might be wrong, either way. Saha buried the resulting penalty.
That hurt, Nick.
No it didn't, Ciarán.
Dave,
The one I'm thinking of was Ameobi — Cahill wound him up — he swung a punch at Cahill... missed, and Cahill went down like he'd been cracked over the head with a hammer.
I got the wrong player. Hands up.
The one I'm thinking of was Ameobi — Cahill wound him up — he swung a punch at Cahill... missed, and Cahill went down like he'd been cracked over the head with a hammer.
I got the wrong player. Hands up.
Sorry, Ciaran, but that was Babayaroo (excuse the spelling) ex Chelsea boy — a charmer in the Boa Morte mould.
I remember something unsavoury with Babayaro as well — but there was definitely handbags with Ameobi... Ste called me right and I checked: Everton 2 - 0 Newcastle... 2005:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/2359289/Cahill-puts-Europes-top-table-in-sight-for-Everton.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/2359289/Cahill-puts-Europes-top-table-in-sight-for-Everton.html
Ha Ha!
The Tigers had more fights than Sugar Ray Robinson... this is turning into a "What have the Romans ever done for us?"
The Tigers had more fights than Sugar Ray Robinson... this is turning into a "What have the Romans ever done for us?"
Dave (58) & James (59); Sorry lads — went to bed happy and slept like a log. I dreamt I was an Atletico season ticket holder, honest, nah.
Just got back from work in a car all morning Parry & Townsend on Talksport absolutely brilliant thread first hour. 1. Not one R/S who rang in wanted their own club to beat Chelsea, not one. 2. A few were moaning about extra time being an advantage to the visitors (away goal winners in this case at Anfield how dare they) and the rule should be scrapped! Great laugh... aah bless. Cheers lads.
The away goal rule IS an unfair advantage to the away team in the second leg, I've always been unhappy with that.
Except last night funnily enough...
The rule should be changed though, a match where last night's scoring sequence happens should go to a penalty shoot out.
Graham (p75) I think you make an excellent point, but again there is a big distinction between on the one hand drawing a foul, 'riding' or jumping a foul, or going down more easily than you might in the face of a genuine foul (that can often lessen the impact and avoid injury) and on the other inventing an incident, faking something entirely, or feigning injury. Arteta, and many players, do the first sort of thing a lot, and I think they have a right to, Busquets did the second and should be slammed for it.
Except last night funnily enough...
The rule should be changed though, a match where last night's scoring sequence happens should go to a penalty shoot out.
Graham (p75) I think you make an excellent point, but again there is a big distinction between on the one hand drawing a foul, 'riding' or jumping a foul, or going down more easily than you might in the face of a genuine foul (that can often lessen the impact and avoid injury) and on the other inventing an incident, faking something entirely, or feigning injury. Arteta, and many players, do the first sort of thing a lot, and I think they have a right to, Busquets did the second and should be slammed for it.
This is a brilliant article,
In comment 3 Ciaran brings Cahill into the thread and says he is guilty of play acting and in post 11 he states he has loads of examples of Cahill "play acting". In post 20 he is not willing to give us any of his many examples.
In comment 3 Ciaran brings Cahill into the thread and says he is guilty of play acting and in post 11 he states he has loads of examples of Cahill "play acting". In post 20 he is not willing to give us any of his many examples.
By post 31 he states the Boa Morte incident as an example of Cahill play acting, and this incident is mentioned again in post 33.
In post 54 Dave Wilson remembers the Boa Morte incident and tells us about the crowd's reaction to the incident. By post 78 Ciaran recalls this incident with Boa Morte and the one of his many examples of "play acting" by Cahill never actually took place, it was actually Ameobi!
Then in post 81 Dave Wilson, who previously had recalled the Boa Morte incident, and went as far as to tell us about the crowd's reaction now confirmed that this red card incident never took place; it was actually a yellow card incident.
In post 84 we hear it was Ameobi and Cahill in fact went down like he had been hit by a hammer, when the actual truth is he never went down at all.
Classic
Firstly, Ciaran brings Cahill into the debate and after refusing to give us an example of his many examples of play acting, we are finally given the Boa Morte red card incident. Dave Wilson recalls this incident and even gives us an idea of the crowds reaction to the red card incident. It is then later confirmed by Dave Wilson that actually this red card incident never took place it was a yellow, it was actually Ameobi who got the red card. Ciaran then states Cahill still went down like he had been hit by a hammer. Once again this never actually took place as Tim Cahill never went down in this incident.
David Thomas
This bit where I give an idea of the crowd's reaction to a red card? ... Care to give the number of the post so we can all see it?
This bit where I give an idea of the crowd's reaction to a red card? ... Care to give the number of the post so we can all see it?
"I did something that you are not allowed to do. I reacted wrongly to the situation and the referee did his job by sending me off.
"I apologised to the lads straight away because I let them down. I felt we could have got something from the game and we had played well in the first half, so my red card did not help matters.
"I played the ball around him (Cahill) and he grabbed my shirt. The referee blew for a free-kick to us and he still had my shirt, so I shoved him.
"He is a shorter guy than me. I shoved him in his face rather than his chest. As I said, it was wrong of me to react, but I did not think he needed to go down like he did. That got me sent off."
That is a comment from Shola Ameobi following the match on 7 May 2005 when he was sent off (yes a red card) for pushing over Tim Cahill who then play-acted a bit by going down worse than he needed (pardon my poor English). Sometimes, I get the impression that people just want to goad Ciaran into an argument. I know he got the player wrong but everything else was right.
"I apologised to the lads straight away because I let them down. I felt we could have got something from the game and we had played well in the first half, so my red card did not help matters.
"I played the ball around him (Cahill) and he grabbed my shirt. The referee blew for a free-kick to us and he still had my shirt, so I shoved him.
"He is a shorter guy than me. I shoved him in his face rather than his chest. As I said, it was wrong of me to react, but I did not think he needed to go down like he did. That got me sent off."
That is a comment from Shola Ameobi following the match on 7 May 2005 when he was sent off (yes a red card) for pushing over Tim Cahill who then play-acted a bit by going down worse than he needed (pardon my poor English). Sometimes, I get the impression that people just want to goad Ciaran into an argument. I know he got the player wrong but everything else was right.
Nice one, Steve.
David Thomas; Any joy finding that post where you claim I give a crowd reaction to a "RED CARD" ?
I`ve had a check myself, but I can't find a post where I even mention the word 'red'... or indeed card?
David Thomas; Any joy finding that post where you claim I give a crowd reaction to a "RED CARD" ?
I`ve had a check myself, but I can't find a post where I even mention the word 'red'... or indeed card?
Sorry Steve,
Fair enough, seeing as though Shola Ameobi got himself sent off for pushing someone in the face and then subsequently blamed it all on Tim Cahill, then that must make Cahill guilty of "play-acting".
Fair enough, seeing as though Shola Ameobi got himself sent off for pushing someone in the face and then subsequently blamed it all on Tim Cahill, then that must make Cahill guilty of "play-acting".
Steve, what a load of nonsense. They were both yellow carded for that incident — only Ameobi was sent-off because he had also received an earlier booking.
David, Is that your hands I see in the air?
I held mine up.
You gonna do the same?
I held mine up.
You gonna do the same?
Ste; Accept it, lad...
Ciaran did get the player wrong, but I`ve just checked back and the pressure he was put under by the TW posse to give an immediate answer was... well, really quite bizarre — I couldn't help chuckle though!
Anyway, once he put the name Ameobi forward, an awful lot of Evertonian memories where jogged... You didn't just get an example, you were provided with a classic example of cheating — don't try to rewrite history.
David Thomas; still no joy on finding that post where I talk about the crowd's reaction to a red card? No? ... didn't think so.
Try to understand the difference between what's written and what you hope is written... you may save yourself a lot of time — see posts 90 + 91 - and embarrassment'
Ciaran; It's going to be an aerial battle at the Britannia today, fancy a little bet on when you think Cahill will go into His "routine"? I'm going for the first 15 minutes myself!
Was no-one else pleased to see Liverpool FC get knocked out of the Europa Cup? I was but was surprised there were no comments on the mailbag to that effect. Why should teams who get knocked out of the Champions League be allowed into the Europa Cup at such a late stage — personally don't think it's right. It would have killed me if they had won it... okay, guys, I'm a bitter blue.
So... recapping: 1 incident FIVE years ago... and that justifies Cairan saying Cahill play-acts?
Given the description, setting and situation described by Ameobi, I think 95% of players shoved in the face are going to go down in a heap given the supposed "raised arms" ruling per Fifa or Uefa.
Cahill is niggly, no question; but he does not play-act.
Given the description, setting and situation described by Ameobi, I think 95% of players shoved in the face are going to go down in a heap given the supposed "raised arms" ruling per Fifa or Uefa.
Cahill is niggly, no question; but he does not play-act.
Michael,
When Ciaran made his statement, I`ll be honest, I had a little chuckle; it was obvious he`d put his foot in it... but, as the thread developed, I began to feel a little uneasy. The posse — not so ably lead by Messrs Entwistle and Thomas — was IMO disproportionately large, the delight in his embarrassment a little too excessive.
A Desperate Dan sized portion of humble pie was prepared and handed to him, the Posse rubbed their hands at the prospect of witnessing him tucking in, but like a desperate boxer he found the counter punch, he remembered the forgotten Ameobi incident.
I laughed out loud when, rather than tuck into his humble pie, he merely sliced it up and handed each and every one of the posse a portion of their own pie.
Maradona, handled the ball a lot more than five years ago, Tommy Doc was trapped in court over 30 years ago, but they are still considered cheats and liars. Even if Cahill did it just the once — something I would contest all night night — the fact is, he did it... and you're right, 95% off the players in the Prem would have done the same, but that only proves they are all cheats, which is what the thread was all about.
I haven't always seen eye to eye with Mr McGlone, but let's give him his victory. The posse asked — no demanded — and example... and he gave them a classic.
Checkmate.
When Ciaran made his statement, I`ll be honest, I had a little chuckle; it was obvious he`d put his foot in it... but, as the thread developed, I began to feel a little uneasy. The posse — not so ably lead by Messrs Entwistle and Thomas — was IMO disproportionately large, the delight in his embarrassment a little too excessive.
A Desperate Dan sized portion of humble pie was prepared and handed to him, the Posse rubbed their hands at the prospect of witnessing him tucking in, but like a desperate boxer he found the counter punch, he remembered the forgotten Ameobi incident.
I laughed out loud when, rather than tuck into his humble pie, he merely sliced it up and handed each and every one of the posse a portion of their own pie.
Maradona, handled the ball a lot more than five years ago, Tommy Doc was trapped in court over 30 years ago, but they are still considered cheats and liars. Even if Cahill did it just the once — something I would contest all night night — the fact is, he did it... and you're right, 95% off the players in the Prem would have done the same, but that only proves they are all cheats, which is what the thread was all about.
I haven't always seen eye to eye with Mr McGlone, but let's give him his victory. The posse asked — no demanded — and example... and he gave them a classic.
Checkmate.
I agree with Dave.
Classic,
This website is the best i love it. The Dave Wilsons and Ciaran McGlones etc remind me so much of the radio show host on talksport Adrian Durham, whatever they say, however far fetched it is, they still try to back it up. There is no point even trying to have a debate with them, if you said the grass was green they would argue with you.
This website is the best i love it. The Dave Wilsons and Ciaran McGlones etc remind me so much of the radio show host on talksport Adrian Durham, whatever they say, however far fetched it is, they still try to back it up. There is no point even trying to have a debate with them, if you said the grass was green they would argue with you.
At least I have achieved "posse" status according to Dave Wilson, whatever that is.
Ste Traverse,
You are out of order with your post 96. We will not allow the actual facts that took place at the match to be allowed on this website — not when Mr Wilson and McGlone are re-writing history.
You are out of order with your post 96. We will not allow the actual facts that took place at the match to be allowed on this website — not when Mr Wilson and McGlone are re-writing history.
Dave W,
No one revelled in Ciaran'sembarrassment as he clearly showed none, nor has he served us with humble pie as, despite his efforts, we still all know the guy got it wrong.
When someone says something like a twat, you have to expect to be rounded on. And in essence, Ciaran has called Cahill a cheat. That makes the man fair game in my oppinion.
To be fair to the him, he has avoided owning up to the mis-statement as its been called by MK without a hint of resposibility to getting it wrong. He's used debating tactics such as dismissing the efforts of those who question him, playing the victim, redefining his position, turning the questions on to those who question him, and what took up a large part of the end of this thread — a diversionary argument, where he hopes that being proved right on a 5-year-old incident will lay the argument to rest or just tire people out.
Tire people maybe, but now he comes over as not just someone who is wrong about one of our heroes, but one who can't hold his hands up to say so.
Ciarán, its been fun I'm sure you'll agree. Now, tell me what your job or uni course is so we can understand where your slippery skills come from. It will make more sense when we find out.
No one revelled in Ciaran'sembarrassment as he clearly showed none, nor has he served us with humble pie as, despite his efforts, we still all know the guy got it wrong.
When someone says something like a twat, you have to expect to be rounded on. And in essence, Ciaran has called Cahill a cheat. That makes the man fair game in my oppinion.
To be fair to the him, he has avoided owning up to the mis-statement as its been called by MK without a hint of resposibility to getting it wrong. He's used debating tactics such as dismissing the efforts of those who question him, playing the victim, redefining his position, turning the questions on to those who question him, and what took up a large part of the end of this thread — a diversionary argument, where he hopes that being proved right on a 5-year-old incident will lay the argument to rest or just tire people out.
Tire people maybe, but now he comes over as not just someone who is wrong about one of our heroes, but one who can't hold his hands up to say so.
Ciarán, its been fun I'm sure you'll agree. Now, tell me what your job or uni course is so we can understand where your slippery skills come from. It will make more sense when we find out.
Ha ha Nick
I think he attended the Deny everything and prey like fuck something comes up SoS (School for Scalls) .... apparently sailed through with distinction.
Ste Traverse
You`re loyalty to you're man is admirable and you are right, both were booked — Ameobi for a second time, but too many Evertoninas remember the way the Tiger went down that day.
The only support you`ll get is from people who have no knowledge of the incident... or from one of the four Adrian Durham listeners.
I think he attended the Deny everything and prey like fuck something comes up SoS (School for Scalls) .... apparently sailed through with distinction.
Ste Traverse
You`re loyalty to you're man is admirable and you are right, both were booked — Ameobi for a second time, but too many Evertoninas remember the way the Tiger went down that day.
The only support you`ll get is from people who have no knowledge of the incident... or from one of the four Adrian Durham listeners.
Dave Wilson,
Sorry for the late reply to your posts 92, 94 and 98.
Sorry for the late reply to your posts 92, 94 and 98.
When someone says: "He once goaded Boa Morte for an entire game until he got a reaction out of him and got him sent off".... And you respond with, "Yes, Ciaran; The crowd were pissing themselves laughing at the "recovery" in the Boa Morte incident."
That for me is you giving us the response from the crowd to the red card incident that Ciaran thought occurred. If you were not responding by giving us the reaction to the red card incident, surely you would have said it was a yellow card incident, or an incident where no action was taken.
However, I think the most worrying thing was you actually remembered an incident that never even took place,
Dave Thomas
Boa Morte has a very long history of trouble agaisnt Everton the Boa Morte incident I spoke about most definitely happened. Millions witnessed it, it's in the record books, it's fact and he was given a yellow card.
I also got a very good look at the sending off incident at I was only 50 yards away and knew Cahill was not involved, Hopefully, at this point, the penny is begining to drop... they were different matches.
Boa Morte has a very long history of trouble agaisnt Everton the Boa Morte incident I spoke about most definitely happened. Millions witnessed it, it's in the record books, it's fact and he was given a yellow card.
I also got a very good look at the sending off incident at I was only 50 yards away and knew Cahill was not involved, Hopefully, at this point, the penny is begining to drop... they were different matches.
I was merely responding to Ciaran`s direct question, "Do you remember the Boa Morte incident?"... Getting it yet? We were talking of two completely different incidents, hardly surprising when you consider Boa Morte's record against us.
The reason I said "BOOKED" is . . . because Boa Morte was booked in the incident I spoke about... and the reason I didn't at any time mention the words "RED" or "CARD" — no matter how much you may wish it so — is because that was a different incident.
Dave Wilson,
Your responses make me laugh so much, they are simply nonesense, after nonsense after nonesense. Are you a politician? Because you have the amazing skill of making comments, then when these are proved to be wrong you simply re-write the question or deny any knowledge of your answers. I think what we all need to realise now is when you write a comment, it is what you are not saying which is the most important.
Your responses make me laugh so much, they are simply nonesense, after nonsense after nonesense. Are you a politician? Because you have the amazing skill of making comments, then when these are proved to be wrong you simply re-write the question or deny any knowledge of your answers. I think what we all need to realise now is when you write a comment, it is what you are not saying which is the most important.
Post 81 : I say " it wasn't Boa Morte that was sent off, although he was booked and had a running battle with Cahill" . Yup fact.
Post 91; You say "DW gives us an idea of the crowds reaction to a RED CARD? . No sorry not up there.
Post 92,94,98 : I say show me the post where i even mention "RED CARD" . you play dumb and fail to respond on all three occasions.
post 107 : You. rather bizarrely claim I responded to something that was said before I even joined the thread, when in fact I had given a direct answer to a question, one that didnt even mention a red card ( see question on post 49).
Post 90 : you say " the truth is Amiobe never went down at all". Oh yes he did.
Post 91 : You say in you re last sentence, "the incident never took place" Oh yes it did .
And finally you seem to be labouring under the misapprehension that Boa Morte wasn't sent off against Everton.
wrong again, he was.
Like I say, absolutely routed
Post 91; You say "DW gives us an idea of the crowds reaction to a RED CARD? . No sorry not up there.
Post 92,94,98 : I say show me the post where i even mention "RED CARD" . you play dumb and fail to respond on all three occasions.
post 107 : You. rather bizarrely claim I responded to something that was said before I even joined the thread, when in fact I had given a direct answer to a question, one that didnt even mention a red card ( see question on post 49).
Post 90 : you say " the truth is Amiobe never went down at all". Oh yes he did.
Post 91 : You say in you re last sentence, "the incident never took place" Oh yes it did .
And finally you seem to be labouring under the misapprehension that Boa Morte wasn't sent off against Everton.
wrong again, he was.
Like I say, absolutely routed
Dave Wilson,
Thanks for the Dave Wilson history lesson regarding Boa Morte getting booked with Tim Cahill being involved in the incident.
Far be it from me to contradict Dave Wilson when he is re-writing history but Luis Boa Morte has only been booked once when playing against an Everton team during Tim Cahill's time at Everton. This booking came in the home fixture with West Ham at the end of last season. Luis Boa Morte received his caution in the 88th minute of the match and wait for it Tim Cahill was substituted in the 80th minute of the match.
But, as I said previously, thanks very much for your wonderful history lesson, it didn't half make me laugh.
Thanks for the Dave Wilson history lesson regarding Boa Morte getting booked with Tim Cahill being involved in the incident.
Far be it from me to contradict Dave Wilson when he is re-writing history but Luis Boa Morte has only been booked once when playing against an Everton team during Tim Cahill's time at Everton. This booking came in the home fixture with West Ham at the end of last season. Luis Boa Morte received his caution in the 88th minute of the match and wait for it Tim Cahill was substituted in the 80th minute of the match.
But, as I said previously, thanks very much for your wonderful history lesson, it didn't half make me laugh.
Boa Morte has been booked twice whilst playing against Everton, he has also been sent off, he has also been involved in incidents where he was claimed he was raciallly abused and on another occasion punched.
Difference is, I know all that, I don't have to spend all day researching.
Difference is, I know all that, I don't have to spend all day researching.
Dave Wilson,
Are you mad? Why do you keep re-writing history or stating I said things I have never said?
At what point have I ever said Boa Morte has not been sent off playing against Everton? I was at the match when he got sent off in an incident with David Weir. Majority of this thread has been about incidents involving Tim Cahill and whether or not he "play acts", Boa Morte got sent off against Everton in 2001 before Tim Cahill joined Everton.
Michael K, please can you have a word with Dave Wilson. I think this site is an excellent site which allows Evertonians to debate all things Everton. I have no issue with anyone having a different opinion to me, it is one of the reasons that allows such great debate on this site and other forums. However, Dave Wilson seems to continually lie, re-write history and state people have said things that have never been posted.
Are you mad? Why do you keep re-writing history or stating I said things I have never said?
At what point have I ever said Boa Morte has not been sent off playing against Everton? I was at the match when he got sent off in an incident with David Weir. Majority of this thread has been about incidents involving Tim Cahill and whether or not he "play acts", Boa Morte got sent off against Everton in 2001 before Tim Cahill joined Everton.
Michael K, please can you have a word with Dave Wilson. I think this site is an excellent site which allows Evertonians to debate all things Everton. I have no issue with anyone having a different opinion to me, it is one of the reasons that allows such great debate on this site and other forums. However, Dave Wilson seems to continually lie, re-write history and state people have said things that have never been posted.
David
If Michael Kenrick can find a single post of mine that is factually inaccurate I will withdraw it immediately.
I won't ask him to do the same with you — who has that sort of time
You`ve come on to TW disecting the tiniest point and trying to score points.
You have today been given a taste of your own medicine
Didn't like it did you?
If Michael Kenrick can find a single post of mine that is factually inaccurate I will withdraw it immediately.
I won't ask him to do the same with you — who has that sort of time
You`ve come on to TW disecting the tiniest point and trying to score points.
You have today been given a taste of your own medicine
Didn't like it did you?
Sorry, but I haven't been following the minutiae of this argument you two are having, which seems to have degenerated in the usual Dave Wilson direction. He obviously has far too much free time these days... He's been warned about it before, and action taken. Pack it in please, Mr Wilson.
Michael
If you`re saying I`m argumentative,then I cant argue - ironically.
But when issuing you`re last warning remember who the other party was last time ? it was the same guy.
He has on several occasions, called me a liar on this site, I will not have that.
Ban me if you so wish, its your site
But first do me the honour of showing me a single me a single lie I have told.
If you cant, think its only fair that you ban David Thomas too
If you`re saying I`m argumentative,then I cant argue - ironically.
But when issuing you`re last warning remember who the other party was last time ? it was the same guy.
He has on several occasions, called me a liar on this site, I will not have that.
Ban me if you so wish, its your site
But first do me the honour of showing me a single me a single lie I have told.
If you cant, think its only fair that you ban David Thomas too
As far as I can tell, you have deliberately obfuscated the parallel tales of Ameobi (spell it right for fuck's sake!) and two for Boa Morte (more for all I can tell...). You seem to take pleasure in this nonsense. Why? If it's not outright lying, it's obnoxious point-scoring bullshit, and just as socially unacceptable.
One last warning: PACK IT IN!
One last warning: PACK IT IN!
Michael
Their was only ever one tale of Ameobi. I cant think of a second
As for Boa Morte there was FIVE different incidents !
I take no pleasure whatsoever in what you describe as "nonesense" but when the same individual repeatedly calls me a liar I have to seperate the incidents to prove my case.
I tried to leave this thread because I really dont want the ban. but I am not accepting this liar shite, calling somebody a liar without being able to back it up is the very worst kind of lying.
If you were judging the facts — rather than the individual, you would insist, as a matter of policy that people who cowardly call other people liars should either put up or shut up.
Their was only ever one tale of Ameobi. I cant think of a second
As for Boa Morte there was FIVE different incidents !
I take no pleasure whatsoever in what you describe as "nonesense" but when the same individual repeatedly calls me a liar I have to seperate the incidents to prove my case.
I tried to leave this thread because I really dont want the ban. but I am not accepting this liar shite, calling somebody a liar without being able to back it up is the very worst kind of lying.
If you were judging the facts — rather than the individual, you would insist, as a matter of policy that people who cowardly call other people liars should either put up or shut up.
Haha...I see the Entwistle concise is at it again..
Deviating from the dictionary...
Apparently 'slippy' now means having an opinion, that is shared by others - and backed up by cogent evidence...
Nice one Nick.
Deviating from the dictionary...
Apparently 'slippy' now means having an opinion, that is shared by others - and backed up by cogent evidence...
Nice one Nick.
Michael,
Thank-you for your interaction. I think anyone who reads this thread can clearly see what has occurred.
Thank-you for your interaction. I think anyone who reads this thread can clearly see what has occurred.
Indeed they can
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1 Posted 29/04/2010 at 14:24:12
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