The Mail Bag
And How it Continues...
Comments (72)
My original article, So It Begins... was aimed at being a question mark concerning the PR / Marketing of Everton FC. After posting, it hit me that in fact what I should do then, if I was this concerned, was to write to EFC and make a few suggestions...
Here is my email to Ian Ross:
Subject: Everton PublicityI didn't to be honest expect a positive response... I didn't really expect a response but within a minute Ian Ross responded to ask who I was and what capacity I was writing. After I explained I was merely an Everton fan with no interest other than trying to be supportive of Everton Football Club, he replied by saying that even simplest of ideas are very difficult to implement. Now, forgetting the appalling nature of the communications, the lack of introductions, the lack of formalities etc, the fact that the Everton FC email system doesn't have a corporate stamp at the bottom of emails, no Job Title, no legal statements – you know the usual, expected business addresses and blurb. This is the manner in which our club (as much as it can be so called) approaches its PR – no wonder we haven't got any positive publicity going!
From: Rupert Sullivan
To: Ian Ross
Dear Ian,
My apologies for the nature of this e.mail; however, I am incredibly disappointed with the apparent failure of EFC to capitalise on the publicity possibilities of the World Cup this year, especially given the fact that Steven Pienaar is an EFC player and is one of the hosts' star players.
Do you think that Everton could possibly do something in the next couple of weeks to really push this angle, get lots of stories in the press, and benefit from Steven's image as an ambassador for both EFC and South Africa?
Perhaps Everton could ask Steven to wear his EFC shirt in a few interviews in South Africa, or EFC could organise a quick football traning camp in Jo-berg with Steven and give out some free EFC footballs, or some free EFC shirts with Pienaar on the back. Some further ideas I have would be:
Assuming that you find some merit in these contributions then please consider that Everton Football Club have the right to use any of these ideas for the benfit of Everton Football Club during the World Club.
- Donate 1000 pounds to a charit in each country when an EFC player scores a goal in the World Cup - Pienaar in SA, Cahill in Australia etc
- Erect a free World Cup Outside Telly in South Africa sponsored by Everton & Chang - assuming broadcast rights allow
- Run an internet fantasy football site from EFC.com for the World Cup
- Produce a Steven Pienaar highlights program for South African (or world) Telly based on his Everton career
- Give him a new contract and publicise it when he scores his first goal in the World Cup (or before)
- Ask the South Africa Team to play a freindly at Goodison before the World Cup, you don't even need to have them say yes, you can just ask
- Produce a half and half strip like for Barcelona but with South Africa and Everton
- Ask a famous South African clothes designer to design a Third Kit for next year
I'm sure you have a great many ideas yourself, I just thought that it would be nice to see some positive coverage of Everton in the news.
Many Thanks
Rupert Sullivan
Perhaps Ian is correct – Perhaps even the simplest of ideas is difficult to implement.
Note: The exact text of Ian Ross's emails have been removed from the site at his request, per Comments #33 and #40.
Rupert Sullivan, Posted 29/04/2010 at 17:45:48
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I find it odd that in his last message to you he came out with "in truth you've no idea how difficult it is to implement the simplest of ideas." He is usually the spin master and usually pretty optimistic.
However, for me, I read this as a sad reminder of how far apart the club and the fans really are. If there is one theme that has been consistent throughout the internet era that saw the creation of this website (or more correctly, its hardly recognizable predecessor), it is how aloof and untouchable the controlling hierarchy of the club continue to be.
Over that period, there have been numerous more organised efforts as well Rupert's well-intentioned but ill-fated e.mail, and many like it from others. Initiatives like the Fans Forum (what happened to that?). All too sadly predictable that nothing seems to have changed.
He is right though; when it comes to the World Cup, the limitations placed on trading, involvement etc is huge.
I like the idea of SA playing Everton... It is well documented that the admin folk here in sunny SA have messed up the run-in for the team and they are left playing nobody countries and are in need of quality competition. Some superb ideas there though Rupert... would be brilliant!
AND IT'S NO FUCKIN WONDER.
His “you’ve no idea...” is perhaps a little patronising. You may well be very experienced in the difficulties of getting ideas implemented when others are involved.
When people complain to me about how “difficult” their job is I usually say two things: (1) if it were that easy, you wouldn’t be needed; and (2) that’s why we pay you this huge salary.
Remember it is ALWAYS easier NOT to do something (and Everton are great at not doing something!).
Actually, what would be cool would be to give him a vest like he wears under his top normally which has the Everton home top design on it — like those comedy t-shirts you get with shirt and tie designed on them — but instead of "Chang" written on it it should (in the same font) say "God" so that it keeps Steven happy by giving him a vest that still has God written on it.
I don't know if people will consider that blasphemous but the church is always trying to do things to be seen in a positive, new, cool, light to attract the young people. So I think this would benefit us (Steven advertising us) and benefit the church (by putting the church in a cool light) so it keeps Steven happy because it shows his 2 loves.
Not realistic I know but an ideal world it would be... ideal!
That does not excuse the curt response. Why can't Mr Ross explain his reasons like a professional? I've had a similar experience myself.
It is an example of how loyalty can work against a customer and it is particular to football. If there were a supporters union (as daft as it sounds) or even the consequence of lost business for Everton, it might be different.
Not sure why you bothered with Ross in the first place, try the engineer rather than the oily rag. Ross's response is shocking, unprofessional and, as someone else pointed out, oddly resignatory.
Few people like being told what to do, but there were some neat ideas in there. Kenwright is responsive & listens (I speak from experience rather than an abstract belief).
I've spoken to many of the top workers at Everton and they're all as bad as each other. Elstone at least bothers to word his e.mails as though he's interested although his lack of action even over the simplest of tasks show he doesn't have the drive or passion. They need Moyes to walk in there and give them a bollocking.
Kenwright either doesn't spend enough time there to know how crap they are, or he's too blind to see it.
Never mind the players, it's pricks like Ross who need to fully understand that it is indeed US fans who are paying his no doubt handsome wages.
Rupert please do not let this put you off — as Alan Kirwin stated, try and get in touch with someone higher up the hierarchy.
COYB
Dixie's anniversary and the 100 years in top-flight achievement passed without any commercial exploitation. Left to the club, we'd never have had Everton 2... The club hierarchy seem happy to keep us as a local, parochial club — a far cry from the pioneer days when Everton led in so much.
As for trying to get the club interested in any (fan-inspired) commercial ideas — I know from experience, you may as well talk to the Finch Farm cat.
At a stroke you have solved the implementation problem. All you have to do is put your head in the Finch Farm door and shout: "Here, Kitty, Kitty, Kitty, Kitty"
Sorry Tony, forgot to mention... the cat's deaf!!
The promotion of the Liverpool brand by the TV companies is incredible. (I wanted to use the word outrageous but I couldn't spell it!) The 5 mins before every game is allocated to the playing of YNWA, with the cameras panning round the crowd, showing the upside-down scarves and waving flags, the cameras don't leave for the pre-match adverts until the rendition is over.
This is done like clockwork, every home game and must be arranged jointly with LFC promotions and the relevant TV company televising the game. It must have a massive pyschological impact on the millions of non-aligned football fans who watch this, swaying thousands of them to the dark side.
Witness Everton v Benfica this season, a massive opportunity to promote Everton's involvement in the 1966 World Cup with Eusebio being presented with a plaque by the club to mark his leading goal scorer achievments. What happens...? He is ushered on to the side of the pitch, 15 min before KO with a 3/4 empty stadium and C5 almost immediately cuts to adverts. If it had been Liverpool, the presentation would have been done right on kick off time, with a 5-minute film shown before hand of Eusebio's exploits.
I find the whole promotional thing regarding Everton's American, Australian, SA etc players almost non-existent. I have heared good things about Everton in the Community, streets ahead of Liverpool FC, but when I saw Liverpool play that pre-season friendly in Singapore, with 60,000 Singaporeans in the ground all wearing Liverpool shirts... well what's the point?
I have said elsewhere that much of the time our marketing approach seems to suck like a vacuum cleaner.
Someone at the club ought to consider seriously some of the comments in this thread, and then ask themselves whether Everton are doing as well as they might in some of these areas.
Worthy effort anyway, Rupert.
So this has been the standard for many and many a year. Why then, as seems to be the case with other supporters, have there been no effective marches outside Goodison. By effective, I mean why is the media able to sustain the impression that the majority of Evertonians are accepting, even happy, with the clubs' hierarchy?
Perhaps Eugene's ethos should be extended to influence the media. Kenwright et al would listen then.
"Difficult to implement" — If something being difficult is a deterrent then nothing would ever get done. 'Impossible' would be a different story... but 'difficult' is no excuse.
The absence of a greeting/sign off and other formal identification of his role more correctly entitles you to ask who he is and whether his answers are offered on behalf of EFC or his own personal opinions. He seems more concerned with protecting his own little fiefdom than promoting the club.
A highly paid executive at our club just emphasised precisely the concerns a lot of our fans are feeling. Were those the words of a highly focused, well motivated, club leader? Or just someone passing time of day in yet another dreary week?
Does BK know his executive team are like this? Does he even care? Does anyone aside from us paying supporters really give a shit about anything to do with this club?
Write to BK — although I suspect he'll get one of his useless minions to respond if you are lucky and question why you get such a response rather than one with at least an ounce of social etiquette advising the club has investigated a number of options and these have proved fruitless or they are striving to work towards something positive.
I've said before that the old boy's club needs to be shown the door and businessmen and women with acumen and proven track records need to be brought in and to earn their salaries. Sadly, every year we fail to do the obvious and exploit what we have. People of vision in the roles should be capable of seeing far more opportunities beyond those and exploit them. We have gone from an innovative club to a joke.
I truly think you should contact Kenwright & Elstone. I believe they both care. There's clearly a swathe of things that EFC could be doing and are not.
Present it positively as you've more or less done to Ross. The consideration of these things is in everyone's interests. The club patently do not have all the answers, but don't stop with Ian Ross. He's the wrong guy & doesn't even appear to like his job.
Don't give up. Good luck.
Joking apart, I'd have more respect if he'd have just put "fuck off I can't be arsed" on it and e.mailed it back. Because basically that is what he means.
What is Ian Ross actually for? He seems to wind the supporters/customers up at any opportunity and seem incapable of generating any positive press for the club so what is he for? If EFC just need a lazy, useless, poorly trained prick then I am sure they could get one for half Ross's salary.
(these are not 'facts' but fair assumptions based on what we in the west accept as 'logic')
Idiots!
1) Because they are idiots, idiots don't know they're idiots, therefore their idiocy can never really be addressed.
2) (much more problematic) Because they're idiots, idiots often believe themselves to be geniuses.
3) The idiots who believe themselves to be geniuses, see everyone else as idiots.
Ross has proven himself, over the years, to be one big fucking idiot.
Unfortunately for us, he's employed by idiots.
Consequently, his ideas will always be the best because.....they're his (ie: the ideas of 'a genius')
Anyone else's will be, as far as he's concerned, coming from idiots.
All horribly frustrating but that's how it is for Evertonians right now and it won't change until 'they' all fuck off back to idiot-land.
Ross also apparently claims he has an agreement with us that his e.mails would not be published without his prior consent. That is certainly not something I am aware of and would be disinclined to accept since it would compromise our independence as a totally separate entity from the club, of which he should consider himself to be merely a temporary servant, there to serve the interests of both fans and shareholders. And if Lyndon had such an agreement, he probably would have acted to shut down this thread by now.
Anyone know what the new Data Act has to say about this questionable issue of needing consent before sharing such e.mails with your like-minded friends online?
However, reading your last post, I am astounded to see that it was Mr Ross himself after all! Such contempt! What a pity... both he and our club are so far under the Richter Scale when it comes to 21st century club promotion.
It would be interesting to know exactly what difficulties they face, and maybe the benefit of the doubt given to Mr Ross, if he's working with one hand tied behind his back. That said, I do know what advice the late, and great Bill Hicks would have given for someone who works in marketing & advertising, so maybe all's not lost... (kidding!)
On a more serious note, I think Rupert is entitled to share his emails with whoever he wishes.
In any event it does not appear that there were any warning notices on the e-mail insisting that it was for the 'addressee only and not to be reproduced without the written permission of the sender'.
It is clear that a clear out at EFC is long overdue. Our club's profile will never improve with the likes of Ross in any position of authority at Goodison.
This of course will never happen, because dross is inherent at GP.
Instead of e-mailing TW and trying to gag this thread, Mr Ross would be better advised to write an open apology to Mr Sulivan via this site.
While we may legally be able reproduce verbatim an e.mail that doesn't carry a legal disclaimer in the footer, it should only be in exceptional circumstances and I don't think this qualifies.
I've removed the exact contents of Ross's email and transferred this to the MailBag where it probably belongs.
I know that, for all my support of their boss, I am regarded as a fucking nuisance by the Press Obstruction Department and so no longer dance to their tune. Half expect my season ticket to get withdrawn before long...
What happened was I began to compose my post, and only got as far as the first word, before accidentally pressing enter! Hence a post from me appeared simply bearing one word: "Rupert,"
I presume Lyndon removed it, as it obviously didn't contribute to the discussion in any meaningful way! I'm sure Kevin Jones will confirm that indeed we are two different people!! Cheers!
The Board need to get their act in gear & demand a level of performance off-field that is comensurate with what Moyes acheives with his team on it!
Michael, the contents of this thread should be sent to Bill Kenwright. Ian, is unfit for the job. When Richard Dodd, for whom I have considerable admiration, posts as he does then it suggests that there is something rotten at Goodison Park.
It seems Everton are being run in the vain of Ed Balls and Gordon. No criticism allowed.
Untold people had read his responses to Rupert's letters.
People were posting their opinions of his responses on TW.
His rudeness and stupidity were out there in the public domain.
It was decision time!
Thinks: "Gotta make the smart move, Let's look at the facts. Well it's only on Toffeeweb. It's hardly the NOTW. Leave it and it'll die on the vine and this time tomorrow they'll be bickering about other stuff. OR..how about telling them to remove it? Would THAT be smarter? Yes, yes I think it WOULD! It would be a smart move made by a smart man. So that's it - I'm telling them to remove it"
See, a fucking idiot.
So NOW it becomes a big issue.
Evertonian word of mouth informs the rest of the tribe and so it depressingly continues onwards (as they say on The Sopranos) 'this thing of ours'.
I myself am in marketing and advertising. I have strong connections in IT and indeed have an Evertonian uncle that lectures in English media at UCLA. I will be drafting a letter (perhaps ask another friend to type it up) and putting it to Mr Ross.
Unlike him, us, the fans have one objective: to make money for Everton FC. The prick can't ignore our letters forever or fob them off in his condescending manner. We should bombard the fucker.
Head of Marketing - Tom Shelston or
Commercial Director Dave Biggar as I think that this may be a more approrpriate channel.
Steven Pienaar is playing in South Africa, for South Africa in the fits ever African World Cup and you want him to turn up bleating about Everton? You're in cloud cuckoo land mate, and Ian Ross clearly agrees!
Sorry but I don't buy into all this stuff about them 'serving the fans' —that's nonsense. They serve their employers in a dog-eat-dog world, and if I was in that position and recieved an e.mail from some bloke telling me to get Steven Pienaar out there to promote Everton, I'd most likely have e.mailed you back similarly!
I do agree that Everton don't make the best of what they have to offer, but apart from that this thread is laughable.
Cue, a torrent of abuse.
But it's not just what Ross says & how he says it that is crticised here — the whole amateurish approach to all aspects of running the club, which is meant to be a business after all, seems in complete contrast to the performance of Moyes & his team.
In plain English — you don't slag off your customers... and you don't sound like you are not arsed; either case should be disciplinary matters, as even the retarded would realise they could come back to haunt you with a complaint via your boss.
Whilst Ian Ross didn't directly attack the sender or use profanity or terms liekly to cause offence, his responses were not befitting that of a Public Relations or Marketing Department. A case of engaging an ounce of subtlety and even the use of a standard reply would have fared far better than the responses he gave, which came across very poorly indeed — which is in direct conflict to the role he is paid handsomely to perform.
Success on the football field is what brings global appeal, not gimmicks. He makes a rod for his own back by being decent enough to send replies as far as I can see but people must realise, he doesn't half get e-mailed with some shite!
Brilliant...You clearly shouldn't put anything in a correspondence that your not willing to stand over... Legally, Ross doesn't have a leg to stand on.
Mr Ruane, as usual — summed it up perfectly.
He could have paid Rupert a bit more lip service but the end result would be the same...he's just been straight up as far as I can see.
But I did get a 2 hour session with Simon Webster although it was only supposed to be an hour.
My overall impression of the experience was very positive and I can fully understand that the commercial people almost have to act like politicians, keeping the electorate happy whilst still trying to run the country.
All I suggest is that if anyone has any world beating ideas for Everton, then still continue to submit them as a well thought out business plan, with a clear and to the point executive summary to grab their attention.
IF the idea you are proposing is good enough and they clarify that you are only trying to help out as a fan (not trying to worm your way into the Club for commercial gain) then you too may get an invite to discuss said idea further.
The ideas I suggested are now over a year old and I promised Simon not to divuldge. This is not to keep to myself, but rather spark ideas to our competitors across the park who not doubt read this site too.
But I did come up with "Club Everton" as a name after the Cup Final and this is getting used. But I believe that was a co-incidence.
The main point Everton commercial people make is to focus on their main priorities - maximize attendances, selling branded merchandise, commercial sponsorship and all that kind of stuff.
I was suggesting "New Money for Everton" to them. (Search TW from last year for it.)
I wish that Bill Kenwright would take his useless regime and fuck right off.
"I didn't get to read the e.mail(s),.......I'd most likely have emailed you back similarly!"
How do you know what response was made. You never read the e.mail!
Steve Pugh; I don't quite know what you mean by shock and awe but what I do mean is if he (Ross) or, as Rupert suggests, Tom Shelston & Dave Biggar won't do their job competently then I'm sure there are plenty of equally qualified and more motivated persons who would. So if not bombarding Ross & Co with ideas, how about bombarding Kenwright with CVs.
Our club is riddled with clowns from top to bottom, taking big salaries out of EFC for doing fuck all, bar winding us fans up time and again.
We desperatley need a clear out and some fresh ideas.
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1 Posted 30/04/2010 at 05:05:14
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At least you got a reply... things are looking up...