The Mail Bag
Not Good Enough
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England may have won, but it wasn't enough to win the group. We desperately needed to score more goals. We now have to face the possiblity of playing Germany, and then Argentina. We don't stand a chance. Not based on our form so far.
Dave Smith, Posted 23/06/2010 at 16:58:09
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Dave - I don't know the Germans are that good. Looked good against the Aussies and not so good against another Euro team.
And no matter what one thinks, getting out of the Group is a confidence-booster.
What about Landon baby!!!!!!!!!!!
And no matter what one thinks, getting out of the Group is a confidence-booster.
What about Landon baby!!!!!!!!!!!
Does that Donovan tap in finally put him out of our reach? That's my first thought after this afternoon's games. Some people won't care but it might have done, sadly.
Also, agree with the OP, only scoring once and resporting to keeping the ball in the corner against those legends Slovenia at the end rather than actually getting the goals needed to top the group was a sad sight. Anyway, as always, the first good team they play it's all over (& it will be a cold day in hell before I support a team including Gerrard and Rooney playing in red....)
Also, agree with the OP, only scoring once and resporting to keeping the ball in the corner against those legends Slovenia at the end rather than actually getting the goals needed to top the group was a sad sight. Anyway, as always, the first good team they play it's all over (& it will be a cold day in hell before I support a team including Gerrard and Rooney playing in red....)
The USA are definitly in the driving seat. I just feel that England's performance's so far have been less than convincing. As soon as we play better opposition, we will be found out.
Folks... our boy Timmy set up the winner with exquisite delivery up the wing to Landycakes. The matches were exciting as well they should be at this level. I am thrilled USA won, and I'm happy that England went thru as well. As opposed to most posters on TW, who seem to revel in everyone's misery. What a group!
Apparantly Milner and Upson put in excellent performances .... the response to that is we should all get down to our local prem club for trials ...
Andrew (3) - I think LD's either been out of reach since his loan ended or he'll be back.
I'm not one convinced that Good WC = More attention/money offers. Maybe for some 19/20 year-old (Jozy for one). But can't see what LD's shown in 3 games of Group play that wasn't better displayed during his run of EPL games.
I see two clear and reasonable possibilities (and both strictly because LD decides to):
1. He stays at Galaxy
2. He moves to EFC
I have trouble believing any other scenario.
I'm not one convinced that Good WC = More attention/money offers. Maybe for some 19/20 year-old (Jozy for one). But can't see what LD's shown in 3 games of Group play that wasn't better displayed during his run of EPL games.
I see two clear and reasonable possibilities (and both strictly because LD decides to):
1. He stays at Galaxy
2. He moves to EFC
I have trouble believing any other scenario.
Roger (5) - Absolutely. Tim was cool as a cucumber right there. Correct pass to the correct guy.
Illustrated something about the American team not talked about much. Like England and Slovenia before them, Algeria was physically wilting at the end while the Americans had plenty left in the tank.
No team has more grit than the US. None. Unfortunately some have just as much and finish plays better.
Illustrated something about the American team not talked about much. Like England and Slovenia before them, Algeria was physically wilting at the end while the Americans had plenty left in the tank.
No team has more grit than the US. None. Unfortunately some have just as much and finish plays better.
Typical newspaper headline on World Cup draw being made:
England
Algeria
Slovenia
Yanks
England
Algeria
Slovenia
Yanks
Note how that spelt EASY, followed by the sentence: "Best English group since the Beatles"!
I am so glad that it wasn't that easy, but I'll bet you when the next draw is made the media and the fans will be thinking the same fatal way.
Congratulations to the USA – brilliant effort and commitment. Well deserved to be top of the group – a group that they showed respect for.
Gerry - here's the link if anyone wants to see it :
http://cdn.majorleaguesoccertalk.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/the-sun-world-cup-2010.jpg
James - I didn't see the whole game but heard that LD didn't do much before his world-changing goal. Any truth in this? (Of course from a totally unbiased US perspective...)
http://cdn.majorleaguesoccertalk.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/the-sun-world-cup-2010.jpg
James - I didn't see the whole game but heard that LD didn't do much before his world-changing goal. Any truth in this? (Of course from a totally unbiased US perspective...)
Brendan (11) LD was in the mix and infuential. Have watched him for so many years, I know the true indicator in how well he's playing is if the team is flowing. And it was today. That's really where he shows; notwithstanding when he kicks in the after-burners.
Really, other than the obvious and major exception of not finishing (yet again) and these periodic defensive gaps between the back line and mid-field, I thought the whole team played well today.
What I liked and the highlight of US Group play for me was the overall professional togetherness of the team. A real and genuine advantage. Arena brought it into the national Side after our 1998 debacle (our version of the Terry fiasco) and Bradley has maintained it. Combined with our world-class physical conditioning and mental toughness, we American supporters are quite proud of them.
And if they ever get to finishing what they started? Oh Boy!!
Really, other than the obvious and major exception of not finishing (yet again) and these periodic defensive gaps between the back line and mid-field, I thought the whole team played well today.
What I liked and the highlight of US Group play for me was the overall professional togetherness of the team. A real and genuine advantage. Arena brought it into the national Side after our 1998 debacle (our version of the Terry fiasco) and Bradley has maintained it. Combined with our world-class physical conditioning and mental toughness, we American supporters are quite proud of them.
And if they ever get to finishing what they started? Oh Boy!!
That radio reporter must have been watching a different game then. I saw the Altidore miss alright — he must have been watching the Yak last night, although it wasn't as bad as his.
The USA deservedly won the group IMO. They showed more determination than any other team, especially as they had to come from behind in two of their games. If they get a decent draw they could gt to the quarters.
The USA deservedly won the group IMO. They showed more determination than any other team, especially as they had to come from behind in two of their games. If they get a decent draw they could gt to the quarters.
Ghana it is then James. And one of USA, Ghana, Uruguay, South Korea will be in the semis. The door opens...
My prediction in Mike Kenrick's original post virtually nailed on. Funniest thing from end of match commentary on TV was that shithouse Keegan saying Engerland are better than Germany, think he needs to stop sniffing glue. With an average age of 24 out against a very strong and decent Ghana tonight Germany did more in that 90 mins than Engerland have in 270 mins in this World Cup.
I got to say USA really impressed and always seem full of running and fitter than other teams in the group. And to have 2 goals chalked off due to dodgy linesman or referee's assistant or whatever you call them nowadays, and still work hard to try get a result is fantastic team spirit... something the English team could learn from.
And Bradley has looked impressive indeed... full of running and determination and grit. Nothing fancy but good enough.
2nd round draws so far looks like it's going to be good games. On a certain Mr Donovan though, it would be awesome if he join us on a permanent basis.
And Bradley has looked impressive indeed... full of running and determination and grit. Nothing fancy but good enough.
2nd round draws so far looks like it's going to be good games. On a certain Mr Donovan though, it would be awesome if he join us on a permanent basis.
Don't forget Cahill today for the Aussies. A little thing here or there different in the Ghana-Germany match and Oz could have went through.
We're through. If we can't beat a young German team, we don't deserve to win it anyway.
Good performances by the Everton posse today.
Good performances by the Everton posse today.
i really feel for Cahill and the Aussies but it was tough for them to overcome the 4-goal deficit. And to be honest, Australia were unlucky to get red cards in consecutive games.
Well, at least Timmy will have more rest before the upcoming season!
Well, at least Timmy will have more rest before the upcoming season!
Cup football is all about winning. England won. If it was always about the best team winning, Brazil would be undefeated champions for the last 50 years and New Zealand would be World Champions in the rugby, which they've never achieved.
That said, England were still shite and I can't see them getting past Germany. I'm delighted Rooney is having a shite World Cup. He still deserved booing.
That said, England were still shite and I can't see them getting past Germany. I'm delighted Rooney is having a shite World Cup. He still deserved booing.
Life would be dull if we all thought alike but, as an Evertonian, I only ever refer to 1 team as "we" -- that's Everton.
Gerry Quinn, you're wrong. This was the easiest draw England will ever have in my lifetime if I live to be 100 (I'm 29). Not just the group, but also the knockout stages that awaited us if we'd won it.
Everyone knew it, and Fabio has basically blown it with ridiculous tactics a 6-year-old girl wouldn't try to use, or if she did she'd realise it didn't work and change it.
It's been impossible to enjoy the World Cup as an England fan so far.
I'm honestly not that surprised. Everyone thought going into this tournament that England were one of the favourites to win it. in reality, they are a good side but not much more. They are (or at least were) the number 8 team in the world based on the Fifa rankings, the USA were 14th. Yet still, somehow this comes as a complete shock. Yes, England were the best side in the group going into the tournament but not by much. So why are we all so surprised?
So to the fans of England, this is a result you should be satisfied with. You could've done better but you should all be grateful you got through. This is the worst England side in a while and with Capello at the helm, I would be shocked to see them beat Germany. I hate to be so cynical but that's reality.
So to the fans of England, this is a result you should be satisfied with. You could've done better but you should all be grateful you got through. This is the worst England side in a while and with Capello at the helm, I would be shocked to see them beat Germany. I hate to be so cynical but that's reality.
Alan Clarke (post #20) you're wrong that New Zealand have never won the Rugby World Cup. They won the first one in 1987, the same year we won our last Championship. Hardly a difficult fact to check!
Now that US is not playing England, I'm back to rooting for them.
Why can't they beat Germany? Is everyone forgetting Germany played two games after the Aussie game? A couple of different bounces and Ghana would have beat them. And Ghana's no world beater.
They lost to Serbia FFS; who are probably on a flight home by now. Germany came just as close to going home as England did. And Germany was in a weaker Group.
If the goalkeeper didn't fluff Dempsey's shot, England would have conceded exactly ZERO goals in Group play. They can't beat Germany? Get the fuck out of here. Of course they can beat them and I expect them to.
Why can't they beat Germany? Is everyone forgetting Germany played two games after the Aussie game? A couple of different bounces and Ghana would have beat them. And Ghana's no world beater.
They lost to Serbia FFS; who are probably on a flight home by now. Germany came just as close to going home as England did. And Germany was in a weaker Group.
If the goalkeeper didn't fluff Dempsey's shot, England would have conceded exactly ZERO goals in Group play. They can't beat Germany? Get the fuck out of here. Of course they can beat them and I expect them to.
Feeling 'brimful of Wilson-like football knowledge', I'd better get the fuck out of here then.
Whilst I generally agree with the OP in that I don't believe England will go much further in the World Cup, I don't think they have "no chance" of beating Germany.
At this moment, I think the odds are 60/40 in Germany's favour - two very mediocre teams in all honesty. The one thing in England's favour is that they're hard to beat, if not exactly hard to take beyond 90 minutes.
But the players looked absolutely shattered after 70 minutes yesterday and I wouldn't fancy England in extra time or penalties against absolutely anyone left in the tournament!
However, it'd take a minor miracle to overcome Argentina, Spain or Brazil — a game against any of those would be similar to the Portsmouth/Chelsea FA Cup Final in terms of the difference in quality on the pitch.
At this moment, I think the odds are 60/40 in Germany's favour - two very mediocre teams in all honesty. The one thing in England's favour is that they're hard to beat, if not exactly hard to take beyond 90 minutes.
But the players looked absolutely shattered after 70 minutes yesterday and I wouldn't fancy England in extra time or penalties against absolutely anyone left in the tournament!
However, it'd take a minor miracle to overcome Argentina, Spain or Brazil — a game against any of those would be similar to the Portsmouth/Chelsea FA Cup Final in terms of the difference in quality on the pitch.
Fair assessment, Lee. While England showed a lot more determination to get a result in today's game, they were still lacking in quality I thought. As you say, this will be exposed against the likes of Argentina, Spain and Brazil.
I'll wager the Germany match goes to penalties with England losing the shoot-out. It has to happen!
I'll wager the Germany match goes to penalties with England losing the shoot-out. It has to happen!
England are definitely on the wrong side of the draw now... I just don't think they're good enough to overcome potential winners all the way through to the final... likely path being Germany, Argentina, Brazil, Final. No way! If they start well on Sunday, perhaps they could spring a surprise on the Germans (anyone else smell a penalty shoot-out coming though?!)
On the other side of the draw, I believe one from Uruguay, South Korea, USA and Ghana will definitely be playing in a World Cup semi-final. That would be HUGE for any one of them. Would be great to see Tim Howard get there. If not - I enjoyed watching Ghana, they played an exciting brand of football against the Germans!
On the other side of the draw, I believe one from Uruguay, South Korea, USA and Ghana will definitely be playing in a World Cup semi-final. That would be HUGE for any one of them. Would be great to see Tim Howard get there. If not - I enjoyed watching Ghana, they played an exciting brand of football against the Germans!
I agree with Mike Allison (#22) that our group and qualifying group were easy (on paper). That's not because the US are shit, but simply because compared to other groups, ours was considerably easier.
Congratulations to USA; having just come back from Vegas it was great to see so many people taking a real interest, even if the majority of interest was "What the hell's up with you team?" The way you've done it has been great too.
As for "us", we get nothing for blitzing our group, except maybe confidence, but actually we need slightly less of the apparent arrogance and I genuinely feel that Terry's unembraced outburst may be just what we needed to unify a team struggling with its own ego. It's all very well having Rooney fearing he'll live in a caravan on a Nike advert only to see him racing back to tackle, but we need our team to perform, and while Graham Tailor (who was on Radio 5 as proper stream with TV commentary wasn't working at work) kept bleating on that Rooney should remain on to get himself a goal, we need the others around him to perform (which they've had to — to a degree). So roll on ze Germans, I'd rather them than the Ghanains, who had by far and away the best fans I remember last World Cup — they'll now have a whole continent supporting them... And you thought the vuvuzelas have been loud so far!
Congratulations to USA; having just come back from Vegas it was great to see so many people taking a real interest, even if the majority of interest was "What the hell's up with you team?" The way you've done it has been great too.
As for "us", we get nothing for blitzing our group, except maybe confidence, but actually we need slightly less of the apparent arrogance and I genuinely feel that Terry's unembraced outburst may be just what we needed to unify a team struggling with its own ego. It's all very well having Rooney fearing he'll live in a caravan on a Nike advert only to see him racing back to tackle, but we need our team to perform, and while Graham Tailor (who was on Radio 5 as proper stream with TV commentary wasn't working at work) kept bleating on that Rooney should remain on to get himself a goal, we need the others around him to perform (which they've had to — to a degree). So roll on ze Germans, I'd rather them than the Ghanains, who had by far and away the best fans I remember last World Cup — they'll now have a whole continent supporting them... And you thought the vuvuzelas have been loud so far!
As has been said, the real victory here in finishing above the Brits is we now have Ghana and past that the winner of the Uruguay - South Korea match. That's a gold-paved road if ever there was one. It doesn't mean it's easy, but certainly more rosy than playing Germany in the opener of the knock out stage.
USA completely deserves this. They had 2 clear goals called back in the group stage which would have truly taken the drama out of today's extra time fairy tale. They fought hard and never gave up.
Of course their finishing was absolutely dire. It was just painful to see chance after chance wasted (or called back). Pain and misery. Thank God they pulled it out.
The roar at my friend's house when they scored was massive. Absolute chaos.
There frankly is no word — thrilled, ecstatic, elated, nirvana, surreal, pumped, jacked, and any other larger collegiate word my feeble mind can't conjure up — that describes how incredibly happy I am. This was enormous for soccer in this country.
USA completely deserves this. They had 2 clear goals called back in the group stage which would have truly taken the drama out of today's extra time fairy tale. They fought hard and never gave up.
Of course their finishing was absolutely dire. It was just painful to see chance after chance wasted (or called back). Pain and misery. Thank God they pulled it out.
The roar at my friend's house when they scored was massive. Absolute chaos.
There frankly is no word — thrilled, ecstatic, elated, nirvana, surreal, pumped, jacked, and any other larger collegiate word my feeble mind can't conjure up — that describes how incredibly happy I am. This was enormous for soccer in this country.
Lastly, every Everton player was superb today — Howard, Donovan, Cahill. Great to see.
Andrew #3, I think people are more likely to remember the open goal that he missed in that game than the tap in me Mam could have scored.... So maybe that will bring his value down?
Let's be right here.
England played averagely against the USA, horrendously against Algeria and well against Slovenia. So — let's say 5 out of 10 in their group games?
Despite this, they still qualified and didn't top the group due to their keeper transpiring to throw the ball into his own net in the first game. USA had TWO shots on target in that game and people on here are talking about them like they're the great white hope. It's laughable.
It also cracks me up when people criticise how Milner kept the ball in the corner to run the clock down yesterday — if that'd been Italy, Argentina or Germany, we'd all be going "why don't we do that....?" They can't win.
I appreciate there's a lot of anti-England feeling on this site (almost pre-dominantly from English people too) and each to their own, good luck to you, but so long as they play with heart like they did yesterday, they'll be getting my support.
Massive occassion to look forward to in the game v Germany and, should we get through (even money?) then most likely Argentina after that. Not counting my chickens but at least one, maybe two classic fixtures ahead.
Those of you who are anti-England, you enjoy supporting Germany and even Argentina or Mexico if we go through, I'll be backing the boys through thick and thin.
Come on England.
England played averagely against the USA, horrendously against Algeria and well against Slovenia. So — let's say 5 out of 10 in their group games?
Despite this, they still qualified and didn't top the group due to their keeper transpiring to throw the ball into his own net in the first game. USA had TWO shots on target in that game and people on here are talking about them like they're the great white hope. It's laughable.
It also cracks me up when people criticise how Milner kept the ball in the corner to run the clock down yesterday — if that'd been Italy, Argentina or Germany, we'd all be going "why don't we do that....?" They can't win.
I appreciate there's a lot of anti-England feeling on this site (almost pre-dominantly from English people too) and each to their own, good luck to you, but so long as they play with heart like they did yesterday, they'll be getting my support.
Massive occassion to look forward to in the game v Germany and, should we get through (even money?) then most likely Argentina after that. Not counting my chickens but at least one, maybe two classic fixtures ahead.
Those of you who are anti-England, you enjoy supporting Germany and even Argentina or Mexico if we go through, I'll be backing the boys through thick and thin.
Come on England.
Mike Green
Thanks for cheering me up a bit. There is nobody as anti-English as the occasional Englishman. And it is only the occasional one... look at Glastonbury yesterday. There was somebody on another thread after the USA game who said he was rooting for them because of Donovan!
Presumably if he was watching England play Russia he would support them because of Bily... or Belgium because of Fellaini etc. etc!
A little perspective is in order too. The USA were as lucky as pigshit against England and Donovan did nothing of note in the game. As somebody above has already mentioned, they had two shots in the whole game and with better finishing (that is a problem admittedly... as it was yesterday) it could have been 4 or 5 nil (or 4 or 5 one if we allow our goalie to still chuck the ball in our own net!) which would have been a better reflection of the game. Their fightback against Slovenia (the USA were tripe in the first half) while admirable, reminded me a bit of Istanbul... as much to do with the team in the lead panicking when the first USA goal went in and losing the plot (just like AC Milan did) I can't comment on the USA/ Algeria game yet as I watched England (shame on me eh?) and I recorded it.
Germany are beatable. It is a tough one and hard to call but they played 10 men for most of the game against the Aussies and the missing one was their best player and talisman. They went to 10 men themselves against Serbia but even with 11 on the pitch they looked no better than the opposition. Against Ghana, again, only very poor finishing by the latter (mainly the big striker whose name I can't recall for the moment) they could have been comfortably in the lead by half-time. All round Ghana played the better football for me.
And England? The team have always suffered from fragile confidence in tournaments. Why that is would be a good subject for another thread, but suffice to say it is a fact. Imagine the effect then of scoring early against the USA, making enough chances to have made the second half a training opportunity on a better day and then the goalie fucks it up!
England are still in it, not winning the group as expected, but still there while not playing particularly well, just like Italy 4 years ago.
Thanks for cheering me up a bit. There is nobody as anti-English as the occasional Englishman. And it is only the occasional one... look at Glastonbury yesterday. There was somebody on another thread after the USA game who said he was rooting for them because of Donovan!
Presumably if he was watching England play Russia he would support them because of Bily... or Belgium because of Fellaini etc. etc!
A little perspective is in order too. The USA were as lucky as pigshit against England and Donovan did nothing of note in the game. As somebody above has already mentioned, they had two shots in the whole game and with better finishing (that is a problem admittedly... as it was yesterday) it could have been 4 or 5 nil (or 4 or 5 one if we allow our goalie to still chuck the ball in our own net!) which would have been a better reflection of the game. Their fightback against Slovenia (the USA were tripe in the first half) while admirable, reminded me a bit of Istanbul... as much to do with the team in the lead panicking when the first USA goal went in and losing the plot (just like AC Milan did) I can't comment on the USA/ Algeria game yet as I watched England (shame on me eh?) and I recorded it.
Germany are beatable. It is a tough one and hard to call but they played 10 men for most of the game against the Aussies and the missing one was their best player and talisman. They went to 10 men themselves against Serbia but even with 11 on the pitch they looked no better than the opposition. Against Ghana, again, only very poor finishing by the latter (mainly the big striker whose name I can't recall for the moment) they could have been comfortably in the lead by half-time. All round Ghana played the better football for me.
And England? The team have always suffered from fragile confidence in tournaments. Why that is would be a good subject for another thread, but suffice to say it is a fact. Imagine the effect then of scoring early against the USA, making enough chances to have made the second half a training opportunity on a better day and then the goalie fucks it up!
England are still in it, not winning the group as expected, but still there while not playing particularly well, just like Italy 4 years ago.
Yes, I'll pop my head above the parapet and admit I'm supporting England too. I'm not getting shitfaced, blowing vuvuzelas and endorsing the salaries of multi-millionaires, but I don't think that's actually mandatory.
Mike, I think the more pertinent point is that, as predictable as it was always going to be, we have now forgotten what went before as we have qualified. Never mind that instead of facing Ghana and then most probably Uruguay, we now face Germany and then most probably Argentina.
I ain't the biggest England fan going, but along with Spain (family roots), I want them to do well. I just don't see them doing that. In my eyes, they were extremely fortunate not to concede a penalty late on when Johnson tripped the Slovenia attacker just before the double block. Yes, they created chances, and passed it around quite nicely, but the same old problems were still evident, and teams like Germany and Argentina will punish those. They will target Johnson defensively, they will target Barry (who is not the saviour some expected him to be) and they will target the left hand side as it will be 2 vs 1. Hansen said it best when he simply said to Dixon (I think) "Thought you said they didn't have a chance if Gerrard played wide left". And as long as Heskey is around, I am not getting my hopes up of seeing England win the trophy anytime soon.
The biggest and most important point for me yesterday was deciding who the best 3 or 4 players were. It wasn't hard – Milner was MotM by a stretch, Defoe had a great game, and Upson and Terry were solid at the back. Funny how all 4 had something to prove, don't you think? And to think Mr Capello promised that players wouldn't be automatic picks... well, I've seen nothing to suggest that the rest of the team (i.e. the automatic picks) are playing for their shirts.
I ain't the biggest England fan going, but along with Spain (family roots), I want them to do well. I just don't see them doing that. In my eyes, they were extremely fortunate not to concede a penalty late on when Johnson tripped the Slovenia attacker just before the double block. Yes, they created chances, and passed it around quite nicely, but the same old problems were still evident, and teams like Germany and Argentina will punish those. They will target Johnson defensively, they will target Barry (who is not the saviour some expected him to be) and they will target the left hand side as it will be 2 vs 1. Hansen said it best when he simply said to Dixon (I think) "Thought you said they didn't have a chance if Gerrard played wide left". And as long as Heskey is around, I am not getting my hopes up of seeing England win the trophy anytime soon.
The biggest and most important point for me yesterday was deciding who the best 3 or 4 players were. It wasn't hard – Milner was MotM by a stretch, Defoe had a great game, and Upson and Terry were solid at the back. Funny how all 4 had something to prove, don't you think? And to think Mr Capello promised that players wouldn't be automatic picks... well, I've seen nothing to suggest that the rest of the team (i.e. the automatic picks) are playing for their shirts.
Jamie (30) - It shows how the media attention at home has grown in 4 years when all the talk of shitty officiating in our games this year never references the ferocious fucking we took from refs in the Italy and Ghana games in 06.
The mystery off-side that negated Beasley's "winning" goal against Italy. And that disgraceful penalty-kick call against Gooch in the last 30 seconds of extra time in the 1st half against Ghana. That ref was what, 35-40 meters from the play (which wasn't even a foul to begin with). Changed everything. 2006, we were on the same edge as this year in Group play (unfortunately we've retained the same finishing problem).
No one was happier than me yesterday. But Group play is over. Ghana's an OK team. But they came out of a weaker Group than US and we have a score to settle with them.
Oh, and Germany beating England will be the upset, not the other way around.
The mystery off-side that negated Beasley's "winning" goal against Italy. And that disgraceful penalty-kick call against Gooch in the last 30 seconds of extra time in the 1st half against Ghana. That ref was what, 35-40 meters from the play (which wasn't even a foul to begin with). Changed everything. 2006, we were on the same edge as this year in Group play (unfortunately we've retained the same finishing problem).
No one was happier than me yesterday. But Group play is over. Ghana's an OK team. But they came out of a weaker Group than US and we have a score to settle with them.
Oh, and Germany beating England will be the upset, not the other way around.
Hate to piss on your chips, Dave, but four years ago Italy had the best keeper in the world in Buffon and England have David James — that is the big difference.
As sure as night follows day, he will make a monumental error if he keeps on playing.
Stewart is right; no team could win the World Cup with Calamity in goal and Heskey up front.
As sure as night follows day, he will make a monumental error if he keeps on playing.
Stewart is right; no team could win the World Cup with Calamity in goal and Heskey up front.
Dave Roberts,
4 or 5 - 1 a better reflection of the game. You must have been watching a completely different game to me.
4 or 5 - 1 a better reflection of the game. You must have been watching a completely different game to me.
I love the way some people write of the Germans for not destroying the rest of their group. I'll remind you they scored 5 goals in three games, that'll be three more than Engerland. They beat a very good Ghana side that would literally tear Engerland a new one with a cracking goal - it took that goal to decide the game. They were deservedly beaten by Serbia even after a poor red card for Klose but unlike Engerland didn't launch a non stop whinge-a-thon.
My prediction of results in Michael Kenrick's post before the World Cup kicked off is ringing true with the third game win and scrape through suddenly making them world beaters again. The game was shite and but for some poor finishing from Slovakia they could easily have seen a draw and early flight back.
Kevin Keegan come out with some right bollocks after the game saying Germany aren't all that which is total disrespect for a side averaging just 24 years old who have at least played to win and not shit out holding the ball desperately near the corner flag to run down the clock to limp out of the group stage.
James Flynn, Ghana if you care to watch them are the best positioned team to progress from the group stages as they have African flair but play a closer game to the europeans than their African compatriots; hard tackles and passing effectively and at pace into space. As much as I enjoyed USA qualifying it was down to LD and not your strike force which is shocking, the miss just before the goal being a perfect example.
My prediction of results in Michael Kenrick's post before the World Cup kicked off is ringing true with the third game win and scrape through suddenly making them world beaters again. The game was shite and but for some poor finishing from Slovakia they could easily have seen a draw and early flight back.
Kevin Keegan come out with some right bollocks after the game saying Germany aren't all that which is total disrespect for a side averaging just 24 years old who have at least played to win and not shit out holding the ball desperately near the corner flag to run down the clock to limp out of the group stage.
James Flynn, Ghana if you care to watch them are the best positioned team to progress from the group stages as they have African flair but play a closer game to the europeans than their African compatriots; hard tackles and passing effectively and at pace into space. As much as I enjoyed USA qualifying it was down to LD and not your strike force which is shocking, the miss just before the goal being a perfect example.
The striking thing about this World Cup so far has been how easy it has been to predict the teams that get out of the groups. Unless you hadn't seen the demise of the Italian and French teams prior to the tournament, predicting the first two hardly required a consultation with Mystic Meg. And if you`d watched England's warm up games even their sluggish start was predictable, they were lucky in the sense that their group was particularly weak, in reality, they were always going to march on.
Despite having to change their back four for every game so far, England are still there, they are growing in strength and confidence and they have good players, they will not be as poor as they were in the group stages.
I`ll be amazed if Fabios men don't see off a distinctly ordinary German side thus becoming stronger and more confident still.
Let's hope the KO stages also throws up a few surprises.
Despite having to change their back four for every game so far, England are still there, they are growing in strength and confidence and they have good players, they will not be as poor as they were in the group stages.
I`ll be amazed if Fabios men don't see off a distinctly ordinary German side thus becoming stronger and more confident still.
Let's hope the KO stages also throws up a few surprises.
Gavin - I watched the games. I can only repeat that the keeper's glaring error aside, England would have conceded zero goals in qualifying, and any brief highlight reel of ManU games indicates how Rooney should be deployed. Capello has chosen not to.
Now, dude, you're not throwing around Germany scoring 5 goals as some proof of superiority, are you. HaHaHa. Well, let me in on some of this stat-juggling to suit myself.
In the last 180+ minutes of Group play, the Deutschers scored exactly as many goals as England while giving up one more. Whoops! And losing a game while doing so! Uhoh.
So, recapping. Except for a fluke that will not re-occur, England conceded zero goals while not losing. Germany gave up as many goals (and VERY fortunate to not give up several more), while losing to a team chilling on a beach somewhere right now getting drunk. Oh, keeping it stat-accurate, Germany scored 5 goals.
As far as Ghana, they are a good team. Bounced the US out of the 06 WC, matter of fact. Our team know who they are and that they're good. So what?
Now, dude, you're not throwing around Germany scoring 5 goals as some proof of superiority, are you. HaHaHa. Well, let me in on some of this stat-juggling to suit myself.
In the last 180+ minutes of Group play, the Deutschers scored exactly as many goals as England while giving up one more. Whoops! And losing a game while doing so! Uhoh.
So, recapping. Except for a fluke that will not re-occur, England conceded zero goals while not losing. Germany gave up as many goals (and VERY fortunate to not give up several more), while losing to a team chilling on a beach somewhere right now getting drunk. Oh, keeping it stat-accurate, Germany scored 5 goals.
As far as Ghana, they are a good team. Bounced the US out of the 06 WC, matter of fact. Our team know who they are and that they're good. So what?
James, James, James... did you watch any of the Germany games? Four good goals in the first match, none fluked; second game, well beaten by a side hungrier and better on counter-attack but with ten men; third game, held their own with some good saves and poor finishing both ends but ultimately a great volley to break the deadlock and win the game. I'll give you a chance to come back with some stats on the Japan friendly, who scored all three goals? Better still a really easy one, google images the German World Cup Kit and The Engerland one and count the stars, hmmmm. I'll give you some more stats to chew over:
Engerland honours role:
Honours
* FIFA World Cup
Winners (1): 1966
Fourth place (1): 1990
* UEFA European Football Championship
Third place (1): 1968
Semi-Final (1): 1996
* British Home Championship
Winners (54): 1886 (shared), 1888, 1890 (shared), 1891, 1892, 1893, 1895, 1898, 1899, 1901, 1903 (shared), 1904, 1905, 1906 (shared), 1908 (shared), 1909, 1911, 1912 (shared), 1913, 1927 (shared), 1930, 1931 (shared), 1932, 1935 (shared), 1938, 1939 (shared), 1947, 1948, 1950, 1952 (shared), 1953 (shared), 1954, 1955, 1956 (shared), 1957, 1958 (shared), 1959 (shared), 1960 (shared), 1961, 1964 (shared), 1965, 1966, 1968, 1969, 1970 (shared), 1971, 1972 (shared), 1973, 1974 (shared), 1975, 1978, 1979, 1982, 1983
That'll be one international trophy then
Germany honours role:
Germany has won the World Cup three times, behind only Brazil (five titles) and Italy (four titles). It has finished as runners-up four times. In terms of semi-final appearances, Germany leads with 11, one more than Brazil's 10, which had participated in two more tournaments. In the last 14 World Cup tournaments, Germany has always reached at least the stage of the last eight teams. Germany has also qualified for every of the 16 World Cups it has entered — it did not enter the inaugural competition in Uruguay of 1930 for economic reasons, and could not qualify for or compete in the post-war 1950 World Cup as the DFB was reinstated as a FIFA member only two months after this tournament.
Germany has also won the European Championship three times (France and Spain are the only other multiple-time winners with two titles), and finished as runners-up three times as well. The Germans have qualified for every European Championship tournament except for the very first EC they entered in 1968.
Ain't stats a bugger eh???? But that was so so so easy.
Engerland honours role:
Honours
* FIFA World Cup
Winners (1): 1966
Fourth place (1): 1990
* UEFA European Football Championship
Third place (1): 1968
Semi-Final (1): 1996
* British Home Championship
Winners (54): 1886 (shared), 1888, 1890 (shared), 1891, 1892, 1893, 1895, 1898, 1899, 1901, 1903 (shared), 1904, 1905, 1906 (shared), 1908 (shared), 1909, 1911, 1912 (shared), 1913, 1927 (shared), 1930, 1931 (shared), 1932, 1935 (shared), 1938, 1939 (shared), 1947, 1948, 1950, 1952 (shared), 1953 (shared), 1954, 1955, 1956 (shared), 1957, 1958 (shared), 1959 (shared), 1960 (shared), 1961, 1964 (shared), 1965, 1966, 1968, 1969, 1970 (shared), 1971, 1972 (shared), 1973, 1974 (shared), 1975, 1978, 1979, 1982, 1983
That'll be one international trophy then
Germany honours role:
Germany has won the World Cup three times, behind only Brazil (five titles) and Italy (four titles). It has finished as runners-up four times. In terms of semi-final appearances, Germany leads with 11, one more than Brazil's 10, which had participated in two more tournaments. In the last 14 World Cup tournaments, Germany has always reached at least the stage of the last eight teams. Germany has also qualified for every of the 16 World Cups it has entered — it did not enter the inaugural competition in Uruguay of 1930 for economic reasons, and could not qualify for or compete in the post-war 1950 World Cup as the DFB was reinstated as a FIFA member only two months after this tournament.
Germany has also won the European Championship three times (France and Spain are the only other multiple-time winners with two titles), and finished as runners-up three times as well. The Germans have qualified for every European Championship tournament except for the very first EC they entered in 1968.
Ain't stats a bugger eh???? But that was so so so easy.
James - I think Gavin means 'Don't Write Off The Germans', which on this side of the Atlantic is football's oldest cliche.
Gavin - ah yes, the old Home Internationals, what a bit of end of season fun they were! Which reminds me, I'm looking forward to the new Celtic League starting next year, in which England won't lower themselves to participate.
Gavin - ah yes, the old Home Internationals, what a bit of end of season fun they were! Which reminds me, I'm looking forward to the new Celtic League starting next year, in which England won't lower themselves to participate.
Gavin - Thanks for the history lesson. Myself, I never think of England's national Side as under-achieving over the years. Given the population size and at least some isolationist thinking from the rest of Europe, England's done OK to me. Seems many England supporters apply some "The Sun Never Sets . . . historical reference to their football thinking, which I don't think valid or fair.
Anyway, Germany's first game against OZ WAS awesome. A systematic mental and physical demolition of an opponent; really something to see.
But can't say they've looked better since then. At all.
You said, "suddenly making them world beaters again" about England. Do you mean someone in here saying that? I haven't read it. They're not world beaters. Neither are Germany. I look forward to a fun game tomorrow with both teams have the same chance at advancing.
Anyway, Germany's first game against OZ WAS awesome. A systematic mental and physical demolition of an opponent; really something to see.
But can't say they've looked better since then. At all.
You said, "suddenly making them world beaters again" about England. Do you mean someone in here saying that? I haven't read it. They're not world beaters. Neither are Germany. I look forward to a fun game tomorrow with both teams have the same chance at advancing.
Bendan - Gotcha, thanks. I'd never write off Germany. You think World Cup, it's Brazil, Italy, Germany and whoever else after that? They earned it. I expect Italy to re-load and be back up there in 2014.
So I don't count them out. I'm just wondering at some of the comments here about England's certain ouster tomorrow. They could get bounced of course. But it's far from a certainty. I give them every chance Germany has. Haven't seen a reason to think differently.
There seems a little bit of Germany-Australia result hang-over in some folks' thinking (Gavin - That's not aimed specifically at you). By kick-off, that'll be 2 weeks ago.
I give England a slight edge tomorrow.
So I don't count them out. I'm just wondering at some of the comments here about England's certain ouster tomorrow. They could get bounced of course. But it's far from a certainty. I give them every chance Germany has. Haven't seen a reason to think differently.
There seems a little bit of Germany-Australia result hang-over in some folks' thinking (Gavin - That's not aimed specifically at you). By kick-off, that'll be 2 weeks ago.
I give England a slight edge tomorrow.
James - I imagine you will be getting all excited about USA v Ghana tomorrow, so I'll put that down as the reason for you thinking that Germany v England is taking place as well. It is in fact happening on Sunday, which, due to extensive media exposure, you wouldn't be allowed to forget if you were on this side of the pond.
Learning the lessons of history, the game itself will be close, and Germany will win the penalty shoot-out. It's written in the stars.
Learning the lessons of history, the game itself will be close, and Germany will win the penalty shoot-out. It's written in the stars.
Brendan,
Yes, thanks again. I was thinking tomorrow. OK. Germany by shoot-out. Certainly could happen. Which is all my argument was. England has just as good a chance of advancing.
You never know, Capello might have walked by Rooney's room, see him looking at match tapes, walk in and ask, "Wayne, is that you up there. What uniform is that you're wearing?"
"Ho! There you just scored a goal"!
"Manchester United"? "Why, I never heard of them. What city do they play in"? "Ah. The city's called Manches. . . aye wait, another goal by you and a beautiful one, Wayne".
"Where did you get these tapes? I never saw them before". (Rooney under breath, "No shit Grampa!") Can I watch them when your don . . . "
"HeyHey. You scored again. What a goal"!!
This gives me an idea for sunday Wayne.
(Capello goes on to room, brimfull of ideas and possibilities, slaps in tape, starts watching, falls asleep, wakes up next morning remembering nothing). England lose in shoot-out. Capello lauds his system to the press, ruefully regrets he didn't have enough talented players.
Yes, thanks again. I was thinking tomorrow. OK. Germany by shoot-out. Certainly could happen. Which is all my argument was. England has just as good a chance of advancing.
You never know, Capello might have walked by Rooney's room, see him looking at match tapes, walk in and ask, "Wayne, is that you up there. What uniform is that you're wearing?"
"Ho! There you just scored a goal"!
"Manchester United"? "Why, I never heard of them. What city do they play in"? "Ah. The city's called Manches. . . aye wait, another goal by you and a beautiful one, Wayne".
"Where did you get these tapes? I never saw them before". (Rooney under breath, "No shit Grampa!") Can I watch them when your don . . . "
"HeyHey. You scored again. What a goal"!!
This gives me an idea for sunday Wayne.
(Capello goes on to room, brimfull of ideas and possibilities, slaps in tape, starts watching, falls asleep, wakes up next morning remembering nothing). England lose in shoot-out. Capello lauds his system to the press, ruefully regrets he didn't have enough talented players.
I thought you were about to say "Capello goes on to room. brimful of Wilson-like football knowledge.....etc.......counting his winnings....."
Brendan
I predicted 16/16 of the quarter finalist, nearly all of them on these pages on one thread or another. won plenty of money in the process too.
Read the article "Great Expectations" I wrote it FOUR months ago. I`m not even sure the draw was made then. I even predict Moyses telly job.
When Tim Howard flies out of SA this weekend I`ll have the full house.
Wilson like Knowledge is a terrific weapon to have in your armory when you walk into the bookies.
So you'll be having a punt on us for the title next season then Dave, at 250-1 ?
Already on mate, but it's only 250/1 to win outright, that won't happen and unfortunately if you mention each way, that 250/1 disappears.
To answer your question though, Yes ; I have lumped on each way but only got about a quarter of that price
I`m brimful of confidence too.
To answer your question though, Yes ; I have lumped on each way but only got about a quarter of that price
I`m brimful of confidence too.
A quarter of the odds for each-way....I think I'll have some of that as I'm also brimful of confidence. E/W placings are down as far as 4th or is it 3rd?
OK guys - It's been tossed around in here enough times and I still haven't figured out what it means:
Wilson-like knowledge.
Is Wilson liquor or some guys named Wilson who has opinions on everything, knows he's right but is always wrong?
I've been able to figure out the vernacular or slang so far without googling. But this one, I'm not sure.
Wilson-like knowledge.
Is Wilson liquor or some guys named Wilson who has opinions on everything, knows he's right but is always wrong?
I've been able to figure out the vernacular or slang so far without googling. But this one, I'm not sure.
James - revisit the Shambles thread from a few days ago. Posts 74, 80, 88, etc.
Brendan - generally e/w in the title race is 1/3 odds and only takes into account 1st and 2nd. You can still get 250/1 with a few of the bookies, go onto "Oddschecker" to see who, Paddy Power should still be offering it. Get on it before it goes!
What I want to know is how can we be 250/1 and the RS be 12/1???? OK - due to money laid by soft RS fans but come on, really?!?!
What I want to know is how can we be 250/1 and the RS be 12/1???? OK - due to money laid by soft RS fans but come on, really?!?!
Thanks Mike. I'm on my way!
Does anyone have the odds on the RS not qualifying for CL again? As an aside to James Flynn, does USA seriously not have any better strikers than young Altidore? I've seen the flyweight lad playing at Rangers and he has always been shite and can barely get a game in the SPL. I think that will be where USA fail against Ghana, they won't miss many chances if they get them.
As far as Capello watching DVDs is concerned he should know Ledley King barely trains at Spurs (exercise bike if that) yet called him up, Rooney is useless without support from midfield and Fat Frank And Stevie Me simply can't play at the same time. Simple mistakes which will be glossed over and replaced with excuses if he doesn't play the right players on Sunday and loses the game.
As far as Capello watching DVDs is concerned he should know Ledley King barely trains at Spurs (exercise bike if that) yet called him up, Rooney is useless without support from midfield and Fat Frank And Stevie Me simply can't play at the same time. Simple mistakes which will be glossed over and replaced with excuses if he doesn't play the right players on Sunday and loses the game.
Gavin (57) - Better than Jozy? Nope. But, from a US fan's perspective, just a few years ago, we didn't even have a Jozy. So, we'll take him.
Bradley has to play Jozy. Yes, his finishing is what it is. But he does like to attack, which I believe can't be taught. And his sheer physical ability is formidable in itself. No one defender can prevent him from getting to a spot. Which means, shitty finisher or not, he's always going to be around the goal. Which translates to pressure on an entire back line. And he's still coming in the 90th minute.
Yeah, Jozy can be frustrating. But he's 20 years old and still very raw. Anyway, he's one of our guys and we love him.
Bradley has to play Jozy. Yes, his finishing is what it is. But he does like to attack, which I believe can't be taught. And his sheer physical ability is formidable in itself. No one defender can prevent him from getting to a spot. Which means, shitty finisher or not, he's always going to be around the goal. Which translates to pressure on an entire back line. And he's still coming in the 90th minute.
Yeah, Jozy can be frustrating. But he's 20 years old and still very raw. Anyway, he's one of our guys and we love him.
Oh well. We're bounced. Did pretty good for a team with no predators.
ToffeeFans, the LD-mania will settle in the States.
Let's see what happens.
ToffeeFans, the LD-mania will settle in the States.
Let's see what happens.
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1 Posted 23/06/2010 at 17:27:17
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