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Can't Win ... Won't Win!

By Tony Marsh :  08/12/2010 :  Comments (66) :
I don't get it me. I must be missing the trick. The reaction from a lot of Evertonians after Saturday's draw at Chelsea was as if we had won... We didn't ? we drew. AGAIN!!!

Let's be brutally honest here: Chelsea are an ageing fading team and, without Ray Wilkins, are very beatable these days. They lost again tonite to Marseille... while Sunderland twated them at thier place a few weeks ago.

WHY can't we finish off teams when we've got them on the ropes? Why can't we manage to put teams to the sword and destroy them? I would love us to do to Chelsea what Sunderland did to them... but it just won't happen will it?

Perhaps having a defensive dictator like Moyes as our coach is making it impossible to have the self-belief. I have never seen Moyes a an inspirational type of person. Negativity ouzes from his pores. Winning is nice but not essential for this man.

It's not just the Chelsea game that has me seething with rage... Villa away; Wolves at home; Spurs away... the list just goes on and on ? even stretching back to the last quarter of last season. Drawing games we should be winning is becoming the norm.

We simply don't have the killer instinct. We only start trying to win games once we go behind. We nearly always end the game with the team that should've started it. Beckford for me has been handled very poorly.

Beckford comes on against Bolton when we are down to ten men and losing 1-0. He scores a wonder goal to rescue a point in injury time. Now, if I'm the manager, that kid starts the next game while his confidence is sky high. Go on, son... keep it going.

Well, in Moyes's world, you drop the lad in favour of a burnt out Saha or a Yakubu who turns slower than a double-decker bus. Keep the kid in while he is scoring goals! That's how I thought this game was played...

Why let Beckford get too big for his boots when you can fuck the lad about and destroy his confidence??? It's a joke, the way he messes with our strikers. Beckford does more in 10 minutes than the other two do in 10 games... and yet he can't get a sniff, unless as sub.

I don't understand why some of our lot have been slagging Beckford off. I think the lad will be class given the right chance. If we want to win games, he has to play... simple as. Get him some game time under his belt, knock off the rust, and watch him fly.

The one really pleasing aspect to come from the game was the emergence of Leighton Baines as the country's best left back. Yes, that's right, Moyes, you prick ? the countries best ? not "second best"!!! Is it any wonder we struggle with team spirit, self-belief and confidence when our manager talks like a twat every time he opens his mouth?

Beckford getting messed about is one thing but when a player puts in a shift like Bainsey did last Saturday, you tell the lad he is the best in the world when he comes off that pitch. Moyes tells him he is second best in the country... Well done, Davey ? motivational genius.

We should have beaten Chelsea easily and we should be smacking the arses of these Mickey Mouse teams who keep getting points from us. Until the manager learns some man-management skills, nothing will change.

If Wigan take a point on Saturday then, I am chucking myself into a vat of Jack Daniels and not coming out untill Xmas.

Alcohol is all that's left at times when watching the Blues... It's so frustrating and so annoying when you know we can do it but don't understand why we are not allowed to...

Moyes has to find that killer instinct from somewhere or draws will still be seen as an achievement and that can't be right for a team who claim they are top 6 material.

It's dead easy this football thing... Score more goals and you win more games. When will Moyes grasp it???

Reader Comments

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Gerry Morrison
1   Posted 09/12/2010 at 03:36:28

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Keep up the good work, Tony. The more you write, the better we play.
Robert Daniels
2   Posted 09/12/2010 at 06:23:39

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Agree, entirely,

His use of Beckford is a disgrace, same with Rodwell at times, play the man in form.

This has happened many times under Moyes: player has a great game... Reward, a seat on the bench.

It's like "Great game son, well done! Now have a sit on the bench, cause I'm the gaffer, and you play when I say."

Dosen't make any sense!
Lynn Thorne
3   Posted 09/12/2010 at 06:49:30

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Doctor, I need help... I actually agree with quite a lot of what you have written Tony.

We have always played better at a high tempo and when we go at teams. We actually started like that against West Brom until we went a goal down and then we became submissive. We have got the ability and players to win these games ? perhaps it is Moyes 'bringing' them down.

I had heard he liked to use psychology, but needs the right type. At the start of the season he's talking about winning the league. What does he say behind closed doors?

Peter Killey
4   Posted 09/12/2010 at 07:40:11

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Hey Tony,

Great to have you back. I have to agree with almost everything you say, think it is time for the great scotsman to hang up his boots, move along and let us try to push on in a new era. 9 years is a long time.

I know everyone will say you need to keep a manager, let him build. Not really, look at Spurs, Rednapp comes in, changes the metality of the players and bang... through the group stages of CL.

James Power
5   Posted 09/12/2010 at 07:50:01

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I have to say that I agree too. When Saha or Yak play, they do so with their backs to goal which makes it easier to defend against. Beckford runs at people and, although wayward, at present he does have a go. Imagine what he would add if he was full of confidence. He is also getting into good positions and, while we do need a finish too, in with it we HAVE to give him game time to blow off the cobwebs.

Agreed also re Baines psychology. Ludicrous.
Ellen West
6   Posted 09/12/2010 at 07:54:51

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I thought the reason why Beckford had so many chances is that he comes on with only 10 mins to go. The game is more open, the defence is flagging and he's energy and creativity is used to the best advantage. He may not get the same number of chances if he is on the field for 90 mins.

However, the rest of the article is spot on.
Robbie Shields
7   Posted 09/12/2010 at 08:18:04

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Tony, once again I've got to agree with most of what you've said. However, even if Moyes had put Beckford in when his confidence was high, he would have destroyed it ? just as quick as he did with Beattie, Johnson, and Saha by deploying him as the loan striker. Beckford will never do anything as a loan striker, because he'll get fed-up running around on the back man for through-balls that will rarely come OR, more likely, do as he is told by DM and chase lost causes.

For me, the biggest problem is Tim Cahill. Now I love the guy, but he is an enigma. He's not a midfielder and he's not a centre forward. If you watch his performance as a centre forward, it's poor, if you watch him as a midfielder it is very poor... but he keeps getting goals! When was the last time Tim took on a midfielder or defender and went past him? I don't think he ever has.

For me, there is only one solution, have Tim as an impact sub and play real 4-4-2 with Beckford as a striker and Saha or Yak as centre-forward, but DM will never start a game like that.
Peter Bourke
8   Posted 09/12/2010 at 08:40:56

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@7 Robbie Shields.
Quote... "For me the biggest problem is Tim Cahill. Now I love the guy, but he is an enigma. He's not a midfielder and he's not a centre forward. If you watch his performance as a centre forward, it's poor, if you watch him as a midfielder, it is very poor."

You have got to be kidding. Take a proper look at Tim's midfield play. In recent weeks he has played some brilliant midfield play with some great passing setting up goal-scoring opportunities.

In all my years of being on TW, your statement above is the most ridiculous, inaccurate and shite comment I have ever read. Words fail me!! You have to be kidding.

Dick Fearon
9   Posted 09/12/2010 at 08:57:34

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Cahill the problem... WTF! O' that we had 9 more like him.
Richard Dodd
10   Posted 09/12/2010 at 09:07:35

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Understandably, Moysey sees the likes of Beckford and Coleman as learning their trade in the Prem. Therefore expect to see Ossie and the Yak starting against Wigan. Predictable, maybe, but you have to go with his preference for experience.
Sam Hoare
11   Posted 09/12/2010 at 08:47:13

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Re-cycled Moyes bashing. Heard it all before.
Steve Guy
12   Posted 09/12/2010 at 09:03:18

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Typical, one doesn't come along for ages and then two arrive at once; articles from TM that is, not buses.

I reckon that whatever Moyes did you would find fault. I actually agree with you regarding Beckford. Saha should be a last resort and I think Vaughan should be given a chance ahead of the latter on his return.

However, you are way over the top in slagging Moyes off over Baines. If Moyes had said Baines was the best, he may have scored points with you, but he would also have been a laughing stock with everyone else, Ashley Cole is the best, no question. You neglect to point out that Moyes also said it was only a matter of time before Baines is picked for England again.

Off the back of recent poor performances, I would have taken anything from the game v Chelski. No doubt that lack of blind optimism grates with you, or you see it as symptomatic of supporter malaise, instead of realism? You quote Sunderland; they were on a roll when they went down there, we were most definitely not. Why can't you give Moyes and the Team a pat on the back for their positive approach in the second half? Rodwell's header goes 2 inches to the left and we would have won.

I think we are all concerned at the moment but the lack of balance in your submissions continues to wear as it did in previous seasons.
Mark Murphy
13   Posted 09/12/2010 at 09:38:56

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I'm so glad someone else thought that about Moyes comment on Baines. To me, that was more an insult than praise. Especially after that performance!

Agree re Beckford too! Unless Moyes screws him up, I can see him becoming an Everton favourite.

Personally, I hope Moyes stays and learns by his mistakes but I'm not holding my breath for the latter! This team is better than its performances and results, that's beyond doubt in my opinion. The fact that we are behind the worst shite team for decades just makes it even more frustrating!
Marc Williams
14   Posted 09/12/2010 at 10:05:23

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Tony, Just had a quick word with Moyes about your post & the best way to handle your come back. He says your form's improving & you are now... the second best poster on ToffeeWeb ? after Doddy!
Chris Fisher
15   Posted 09/12/2010 at 10:15:35

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Agree with the Beckford comment and, although I'm sure Bainsey is big enough to not let that sort of comment bother him, it would've been better to just say he is one of the best left backs in the world!
John Nelson
16   Posted 09/12/2010 at 10:18:34

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Spot on Tony. Can't agree with you more about Beckford. The lad needs a genuine run in the team to be properly judged... and, given current form compared to them two lazy twats in Saha and Yakubu, SHOULD be starting every game, in which I am confident the sitters will start turning into goals.

It's simple logic really in why he should be playing, but Moyes this season ? as with other decisions and team selections ? has got everyone puzzled.
Michael Evans
17   Posted 09/12/2010 at 10:21:26

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Too many ethereal subtleties and nuances for me.

Do you not like Moyes ?

Aiden Jones
18   Posted 09/12/2010 at 10:57:05

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Robbie ? spot on about Cahil and him not being a centre forward or a midfielder. I shudder at the thought of him in midfield in a 4-4-2. However, to label a guy who gets so many goals for us, sets up goals, and works so hard, a "problem" is somewhat harsh.
Dave Wilson
19   Posted 09/12/2010 at 10:25:17

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I don't get this growing school of thought: Moyesie's tactics are positive enough to dominate games, but too negative to win em... eh?

I so wish we`d have taken the £15 million Wenger was offering for Jagielka, we could have spent that on a striker capable of turning possession and dominance into points.

Anyway, we didn't, so we have two strikers seemingly past their sell-by dates and another who needs three or four chances to score one. It has nothing to do with negativity/positivity ? Moyes could play all three of these guys at once, it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference.

Unless one of them starts acting like a Prem striker, we`ll continue to struggle.
Brian Waring
20   Posted 09/12/2010 at 11:32:07

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Moyes has to get the team playing from the off, and stop going with the safety-first approach.
Tom Winek
21   Posted 09/12/2010 at 11:45:44

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I'm bored of all these posts just regurgitating the same point. Chelsea will be top 2 at the end of the season.
John Daley
22   Posted 09/12/2010 at 11:44:52

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Agree that Moyes seems to be handling Beckford all wrong. The guy needs encouragement and a bit of praise now and again, not constant criticism from his manager.

He came on against Chelsea and got the equalizer only to hear Moyes later say that he "cost us the win" because he turned two defenders and took a shot instead of passing to someone in a better position. Not a word about Neville fucking up and needlessly gifting a goal to the opposition though. Guess that had no bearing on the result?

Never a word about Saha putting in yet another shit static shift every Saturday or Arteta playing like a drain and getting himself needlessly sent off, or Howard dropping another game changing clanger. There seem to be certain players Moyes deems above reproach.

Daniel Johnson
23   Posted 09/12/2010 at 12:14:26

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Tony Marsh talks a lot of sense.

In hindsight he always has talked sense.

Personally I just want Moyes OUT!
Tony J Williams
24   Posted 09/12/2010 at 12:23:00

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Ashley Cole is by far a better player than Baines, so let's stop all this crap about Moyes being insulting to Leighton.

Doesn't matter if your manager is defensive or not, if, when in front of goal, your players can't shoot/hit the target. We are getting into the positions (ie, we have the attacking formation and have attacking plays) but the players are letting the manager and the fans down... apart from Cahill.

Beckford gets slated, he comes on and scores... worked like a charm and to be honest I would bad mouth him because his decision-making and shooting, with his feet, is diabolical.... apart from that peach against Bolton.

Same old, same old with you Tony, as with me. You see the negatives in every single thing that Moyes does, even some made up ones. I try to view the whole picture, which at this moment is not a very pretty one I agree.
Stephen Kenny
25   Posted 09/12/2010 at 13:05:41

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Tony,

I disagree with your assessment of Chelsea, but you hit the nail on the head with his comments about Leighton Baines.

Throughout his time with us, he has consistently tried to bring players down a peg or two. Even when Mikel was on top of his game and we were flying, he couldn't bring himself to say he was good enough for the Sapin squad. Whether he is or not is irrelevant. I couldn't be arsed to go through archives to find quotes but he has done this over and over. I think at times like Ferguson he can be unbelievably petty.

Second half we went all out to win and came close, I'd blame the player's more than the manager for that TBH.
David Booth
26   Posted 09/12/2010 at 12:50:30

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Some of you lot just defy belief.

There are no teams we ? or anyone else ? can take for granted this season.

All this two-plus-two-equals-six nonsense such as 'Sunderland beat Chelsea, so we should...'. Be reminded that a few weeks later, the aforementioned mightly Sunderland lost to Wolves.

And drop Cahill? Well, no comment is necessary from me. Absolutely ludicrous suggestion.

But best of all, David Moyes is now being castigated for his honesty! Leighton Baines had a fantastic game at Chelsea, but he is still second to Ashley Cole in the grand scheme of things. Moyes gave him an accolade which no-one could challenge... oh.. apart from the usual 'analysts' on here.

So telling every player they're THE best is good for morale then? An interesting motivational theory ? but if it applies to one, it must surely apply to everyone. Even 'Arry Redknapp isn't that much of a sycophant.

Take a step back and assess the broader picture: we drew at Chelsea, after being a goal down and could have won it.

Yes, obviously, three points would have been better ? but time a lot of people on here started to see the positives. Sadly, I fear you are not capable, however.

God help Moyes if we don't beat Wigan 5-0 on Saturday. Just a minute, though, didn't they beat Spurs 1-0 at White Hart Lane in August? And so did West Ham, a few weeks later. Sack Redknapp too then.

Clearly time to get rid of Ancelotti as well, followed by Wenger if you listen to their equivalent lynch mob. Unbelievable, short-sighted, negativity.

There are so many things we ought to be accentuating and that will surely come good. If only the 'we're all doomed' brigade that so enjoy patting each other on the back when we don't win every game were capable of seeing that.
James Stewart
27   Posted 09/12/2010 at 13:17:25

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Spot on regarding the Baines comment. I have never felt Moyes says the right thing about players. He did that before with Rooney. Talks everyone down. Did the same with Coleman. Great for confidence!!!

Let's be honest, this season has been a disaster and it was supposed to be Moyes's finest hour. Yes, the players have underperformed but for me the buck stops with Moyes.

8½ years of the same tired old tactics with no Plan B whatsoever. These players are capable of playing good attacking football! If we finish outside Europe, he should be sacked.

Tony J Williams
28   Posted 09/12/2010 at 13:22:11

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Stephen, Arteta isn't good enough to get into the Spanish team/squad.
Aiden Doyle
29   Posted 09/12/2010 at 13:29:50

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?Let's be brutally honest here: Chelsea are an ageing fading team and, without Ray Wilkins, are very beatable these days?

They?re also the current champions, have been top of the league for all but three weeks of the season and they?ll be there or thereabouts at the end of it. Just how fast do you think they?re aging?

It?s really no surprise that you get so angry when you base your expectations on such distorted assessments.
Colin Wainwright
30   Posted 09/12/2010 at 13:30:08

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What makes everyone so fuckin positive that what Moyes says to the, generally Sky Four biased press, is the same as he tells his players in private?

For all we know, he could have been telling Jo he was Messi in the privacy of the dressing room.
Jon Cox
31   Posted 09/12/2010 at 13:16:04

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Beckford & Vaughan in a 4-4-2

The mind boggles...
Brian Denton
32   Posted 09/12/2010 at 13:38:24

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I seem to recall last season that Moyes talked up Fellaini as 'currently the best midfielder in the country', so he can do hyperbole about his players on occasion!
Tony J Williams
33   Posted 09/12/2010 at 13:39:38

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Aiden ? if they are ageing like our players, they will be "ageing rapidly" according to some on here.
Tony J Williams
34   Posted 09/12/2010 at 13:42:02

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Colin, it's easier to label him a coward/shithouse/hypocrite that way.
Aiden Doyle
35   Posted 09/12/2010 at 13:57:01

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Good point, Tony ? even when you leave the Yak out of the equation.
Ryan Holroyd
36   Posted 09/12/2010 at 13:53:14

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Some of the Shite that gets written on here.

Re Baines. Class player as he is, is not as good as Ashley Cole.

I remember when Ashley Young scored against us in the last min. O'Neill said Young was up there with Messi and everyone laughed. If Moyes had said Baines was the best LB in England, he would have been ridiculed because it is not true.

If the team spirit is so bad, then how come Landon Donovan is constantly on twitter saying how great Everton as a club is and how friendly and welcoming it is?

Re: People make some valid points on here but some well, do they watch football? Especially the tired old ' all Cahill does is score goals' cliche.

I agree with Colin Wainwright. We don't know what happens behind closed doors so I wish people would stop sprouting any old shit to suit their agenda.
Michael Coville
37   Posted 09/12/2010 at 14:08:42

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Actually I would like to see Beckford and Vaughan playing as joint strikers. Yes, they would miss a lot and run around like headless chickens but it would be exciting and I bet they would win us a lot of games.

When Cahill goes in January, why not try it out, David? Yes, I know, you still have faith that Saha/Yakubu will eventually score!

Chris Sillett
38   Posted 09/12/2010 at 14:26:41

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Beckford has to start against Wigan. His confidence isn't going to be any higher than after scoring against Chelsea... but I think we all know it will be Saha starting, coming off after 80 mins and Beckford on for the last 10 mins!
Paul Joy
39   Posted 09/12/2010 at 15:24:10

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Strewth Marshy, do you ever stop your miserable moaning?

You crave that David Moyes finds the killer instinct ? perhaps you could arrange to meet him face to face and I am sure he will oblige.

You won't need to jump into the vat of JD, people will help you on your way.

Chelsea was a good performance and necessary after the West Brom fiasco ? yes we should have won but why focus on any positives when there are negatives to be found??

I pity you, Marshy, your glass is always half-empty, isn't it? Bet you are a wow over Christmas.

Unlike our team, you are depressingly consistent. Moan moan moan etc etc.
Terry Downes
40   Posted 09/12/2010 at 15:46:46

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I can't believe what I've been reading on these posts... don't you lot get it?

In numerous replies to Tony's post, quite a few of you say how well we played in the 2nd half.... and therein lies the problem: there's two fucking halves ? why can't we play the first like the second?

Thats what Tony's trying to say, well at least I think he is.
Stephen Kenny
41   Posted 09/12/2010 at 16:17:25

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Tony, when he was at the peak of his powers, he was good enough for the squad. Moyes saying so publicly wouldn't have done Mikel's cause any harm and given him a boost in the equation. He does it all the time.
Tony Hughes
42   Posted 09/12/2010 at 16:22:41

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Marshy, absolutely spot on mate!!
Martin Handley
43   Posted 09/12/2010 at 17:23:17

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Just a quick one on Saha, guys ? he's injured so that solves one selection 'headache' for Moyes. Also, I think Timbo can play in the next 2 games before he has to hop it to Oz!

Personally I would pick the following team against the pie eaters:-
Howard,
Neville, Jagielka, Distin, Baines,
Pienaar, Rodwell, Fellaini, Coleman,
Cahill,
Beckford,
Subs;
Mucha, Heitinga, Duffy, Bilyaletdinov, Gueye, Yakubu, Silva.

You will all probably slate me but I think that team could mash the pie men!

Eugene Ruane
44   Posted 09/12/2010 at 17:50:53

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Moyes's problem (and by default, ours) is, in my opinion, a simple lack of imagination.

He'd make a fantastic cowboy or stoic engineer or mathematician, but when things aren't going well on a football field, he's basically goosed.

In the past three years or so, a picture of him has developed in my mind as a kind of football version of Porridge's Mr Mackay.

Reliable, stern, by-the-book and... predictable.

I see him holidaying as a kid with some thin-lipped Presbyterian aunt on a croft farmhouse.

Cold showers every morning, 'the Guid book' in the evening, and wee David loving it.

Or him watching the 14-year-old Rooney perform some trick with the ball and thinking "He could make a neat wee player some day... if I can get rid of aw they daft tricks".

Not a bad man at all, but I don't think he has ANY chance of making us anything but an easy-to-suss, workmanlike team who win a few 1-0, lose a few 1-0 and draw a few 1-1.

(nb: And you can go and watch workmen for nothing.)
Michael Kenrick
45   Posted 09/12/2010 at 18:21:00

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Eugene, entertaining as ever... and possibly closer to the truth than certainly I was aware, at least in one important aspect: the man's religion.

Something popped up on NewsNow yesterday, a piece from The Spectator (!), published back in February (!!!) when Everton and Moyes were cresting a nice wave: Miraculous Moyes.

This line caught my eye: "Moyes is steely yet affable, with a strong Christian faith which he prefers not to talk about." So... Presbyterian Calvinist.... perhaps not too far off the mark!
Tony I'Anson
46   Posted 09/12/2010 at 18:17:40

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Give the spine of the team the freedom to do what the hell they like and we will win more games.
What about this spine? ie 4 or 5 players in the team who run the show.

Keeper?

RB? Jags CB? Baines
RM? Rodwell Felli LM?
AMF?
Beckford

I've put a ? for LM and not Pienaar as he's likely to go.
Beckford up front to give him a real chance to prove himself.

Spine of the 80s ? Ratcliffe, Reid, Bracewell, Sharp.
Tony Cheek
47   Posted 09/12/2010 at 20:35:00

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Good stuff, Tony, and think you are right about Beckford. Want to see him start AND finish some games now. He must play on Saturday... otherwise, there is seriously something wrong with Moyes.

Oh! and shudders just went down my spine as I went on the OS and saw headlines "Another 400 for Moyes"... just the thought of it really makes me unwell!!!

Lee Courtliff
48   Posted 09/12/2010 at 22:13:54

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John Cox (#31) ? Good idea about Beckford and Vaughan up front. Even though I have my doubts about both of them ever becoming 20-goal-a-season Prem strikers us fans love to see passion and pace. Definitely worth a try.

And by the way, Cahill is shite. ALL he does is score goals, work hard, wind up the opposition, encourage his teammates, and prove invaluable at defending set pieces. Oh, and he seems like a decent, down-to-earth bloke. But besides all that he does nothing.

And some of you idiots have the nerve to slag Moyes for his team selections. Ludicrous!

Robbie Shields
49   Posted 09/12/2010 at 22:15:09

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@8 Peter, I think you missunderstood my intended use of the worst "problem". Without doubt Cahill has played better over the last couple of games, but I still stand by the assertion that he is neither a Centre Forward or Central Midfielder.

He can't be used on the right or left of CM because he never runs at, past or around defenders. Why, I don't know... he's quick and strong. I'm sure he did it for Millwall in the semi-final but that was it, he's never done it for us. All his goals come from headers, not one I can remember from outside the box, I'm also struggling to think of any outside the 6-yard box!

Beckford won't be effective up front on his own or with Cahill, you need to be world class to do that job effectively on your own consistently and score goals... think Drigba, Rooney, Torres. So if Moyes plays Beckford with a true Centre Forward, ie, Yak, what does he do with Cahill???

That is the "problem" I was trying to articulate... poorly, granted. Answers on a postcard.

Aiden Doyle
50   Posted 09/12/2010 at 22:47:33

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We may be in a minority, Robbie, but you?re certainly not the only person who has reservations about Cahill and the way our misfiring team seems to be configured to suit the way he plays. He may have been a genuinely great player in another era but he doesn?t seem to quite fit any of the roles needed in the modern game.
Jamie Sweet
51   Posted 10/12/2010 at 01:59:42

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A couple of decent points, Tony, in your usual under-stated manner! The one that I agree with the most is that "We only start trying to win games once we go behind". This is really starting to bug me. Why do we only start taking the game to the opposition when we're chasing the game? Why not start in this manner and set ourselves to go out and win the game?!

I like the sound of a vat of Jack Daniels. I might give that a go at the weekend whether we win lose or draw. We will win though. 2-2.
Eugene Ruane
52   Posted 10/12/2010 at 02:28:56

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By the way can I add, I'm NOT having a pop at Presbyterians.

In fact there are certain situations where a good solid presbyterian (Calvinist, Methodist etc) is exactly what's required.

Sheriff in a frontier town, bridge-builder, headmaster, engineer.

They tend not to be swayed or sidetracked by the frivolous and the job gets done.

It's just in more... um... 'creative' areas, they seem a little inflexible ? and, if football is played right, it IS creative.
Ste Traverse
53   Posted 10/12/2010 at 03:14:15

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Robbie Sheilds (#7). I don't think I've read so much crap in a long time.

8 goals this season and Cahill is a "problem"???

Play those non-scoring lazy arses Yak or Saha alongside Beckford???

Drop Cahill and turn him into an "impact sub"??? (When has Cahill ever been an impact sub? Answers on a postcard...)

Yours is a recipe for us to score even less goals. Go and have a nice lie down, lad.
Robbie Shields
54   Posted 10/12/2010 at 06:06:51

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Ste #53, why the abuse? I'm only stating an opinion!

In answer to your question, Cahill has never been an impact sub, because the only time he isn't on the pitch is when he us either away playing for Australia or injured... it doesn't mean he can't be one though.

Has it occured to you that by playing a different way we might actually be more effective and score more goals with a genuine striker and a genuine centre forward than the 8 Cahill has got (not trying to be patronizing here, just asking the question). We might find out in January when Cahill is away, if Moyes uses the players he has got to their strengths and does not stick to 4-5-1 without Cahill... We'll see, but I'm not holding my breath for such a revolutionary rethink on our formation and style of play.
Tony J Williams
55   Posted 10/12/2010 at 09:01:58

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Robbie, I can see Moyes trying Bilyaletdinov in Cahill's position in January......for a couple of games. Who knows, it may prove a good move, playing someone in their rightful position, where he has represented his country so many times before.
Robbie Shields
56   Posted 10/12/2010 at 09:18:47

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Tony, that's an interesting option, and given Moyes's reluctance to abandon his favoured formation, you might be on to something there.

I've got to be honest and say that I really hate 4-5-1. I can see the benefit in it away from home against average opposition if you are a relatively poor side yourself, but we aren't a poor side anymore, or at least we shouldn't be. Also, I believe it fails big time against quality opposition. I also think it would be tough for Bily due him being very low on confidence, he would need a lot of things to go his way for it to work out for him.

I'd just like to see us go 4-4-2 at home with a striker and centre forward from the off against average or weak opposition and see what happens, but that raises the dreaded "Cahill" conundrum that gets everyone agitated.
Daniel Johnson
57   Posted 10/12/2010 at 11:58:58

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@ David Booth (26)

It's people like you who will be glossing over our rubbish start again next season and defending Moyes's negative tactics for fear of the unknown.

David Moyes isn't the second coming of Christ ? to think we wouldn't be better off with someone different is just burying your head in the sand.

I've seen enough and I've had enough. Moyes won't change and neither will this football club under his management.

MOYES OUT!
Peter Bourke
58   Posted 10/12/2010 at 20:27:23

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Robbie,
You are indeed entitled to your opinion but to say "Cahill is a Very Very poor midfielder"...your words, is utter, utter crap.
Robbie Shields
59   Posted 10/12/2010 at 22:16:42

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Peter, one question for you:

If Cahill is such a fantastic midfielder, then why doesn't Moyes ever play him there in a 4-4-2 formation with Rodwell or Fellaini?
Paul Gallagher
60   Posted 10/12/2010 at 22:44:55

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Why do people keep saying Moyes should play 4-4-2? We have been playing it: Cahill has been upfront.
Andy Crooks
61   Posted 10/12/2010 at 22:57:26

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Robbie. you make a good point. David Moyes needs to have the balls to leave good players on the bench. Tim Cahill (who I admire a lot) and Jagielka. If it is true that we were offered £15 million for Jagielka then it is unbelievable that we didn't grab it.
Robbie Shields
62   Posted 10/12/2010 at 23:26:36

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Peter, one minor correction, I said very poor, not very very poor.

As I said before, I love the guy, he's been great for us and is a dyed-in-the-wool blue, but he is neither the complete centre-forward nor the complete midfielder IMO.

He tends to go sideways or backwards too often, or give the ball straight back to the player passing to him. He rarely ever turns and runs at the opposition's midfield or defenders, creating space for others, and after an hour is blowing bubbles from running between MF and CF. Moyes then doesn't take him off but instead picks out Coleman or someone else less senior, who invariably is still playing well and effective.

Cahill then hangs around the box when we are pushing for an equalizer late on because he is knackered, and sometimes scores; everyone then says how great Cahill is and that without him we wouldn't score any goals at all... Bollox.

Simon Temme
63   Posted 11/12/2010 at 00:01:12

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Eugene

Very good splinter point from a good TM article.

Moyes would deffo be an Irvine Welsh character ? an aggrieved father who takes revenge on Begbie after the Leith psycho fucks his daughter and shits on the front room carpet.

Maybe then we would see some attacking football at home.
Ernie McAllister
64   Posted 11/12/2010 at 01:22:36

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Daniel Johnson ? I am absolutely with you, mate.

Enough of the excuses... he has to go.. it's the same shit every year.

Who would do better? Ask the board ? it's their job, not ours... seriously
Ernie McAllister
65   Posted 11/12/2010 at 01:30:32

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Robbie Shields ? he has been great for us, but we rapidly out grew his inability as a manager going in the right direction.

Is it any shock we have come full circle with the guy? Don't blame his constant ineptitude on money... the decisions he makes or doesn't make probably befit a Sunday League team.

The team plays well when it has to choose itself. It's one thing to buy players... it's another to manage them, the latter of which he doesn't do very well at all.

Man-to-man management I would assume is something he lacks in his portfolio... and the ability to pick strong teams, or when people are doing shit to keep em on the bench and give some new kids a chance, like Gueye for example.

The problems have been highlighted quite often throughout the years... and if we don't cut our ties soon, I would hate to think where we will end up.

He said recently "I haven't got a clue why they are performing like this". Funny, Moyes, coz even a blind man can see why...
Dave Street
66   Posted 11/12/2010 at 23:37:23

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It gives me no satisfaction whatsoever Tony to say, the Vat of Jack Daniels it is then. See you at Christmas!!!!!!

For fuck's sake! Pathetic today.

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