Season 2011-12
The Mail Bag
Seventh IS the new Top!
50 Comments: Bombard the media all you like and you won't solve the problem of getting Everton into the top four ? or finding a new home to play in!
With Man City finding a way round the new financial controls even before they become effective and every one of 'The Sky Super Six' seeming to have easy access to unlimited borrowings, Everton's battle plan must now focus firmly on being the 'Best of the Rest' ? and that will be a hard battle, make no mistake!
With £100k a week becoming a commonplace salary for players no better than some on Everton`s books, the clubs who finished above us are now in an unassailable position. Spurs may seem the most vunerable of the Six, but their financial structure is as sound as a bell whilst our local neighbours ? so recently on the brink of disaster ? now APPEAR to be in good hands. Chelsea and the two Manchester clubs are now on another planet whilst Arsenal, temporarily discomforted, are now controlled by a Yank billionaire.
So, if we accept that there is not a hope in hell that one of the world's richest will suddenly see our club as an attractive plaything ? and nothing less will do the trick ? what can we hope for... with or without Bill Kenwright?
'Seventh is heaven' must be the answer to that poser, I submit. I am exhausted in my defence of Blue Bill and frustrated that he does so little to defend his record himself. However, I still maintain that change for change's sake is ridiculous and merely seeing him 'move over' to silence the baying mob will solve nothing.
Our chairman`s relationship with his manager may be too cosy for many but it has been the key to our more than comfortable record over the past ten seasons. Why seek to disrupt that purely in the hope that some unheard-of chancer will do better?
Only a miracle will see us do better than seventh and in today`s Prem that IS the top for us mere mortals!
Richard Dodd, Posted 10/07/2011 at 09:37:35
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Kenwright just wants investors and let's be honest ? who in their right mind would give him money with no say in where it goes!?!
But a good point is the fast approaching £100k pw average wage for Premier League footballers that is simply not sustainable.
Therefore, is the Everton board pathfinders in new, realistic approach to football finances or just completely out of their collective depth ? discuss.
No, this isn't news to me, but every time I really consider that amount of money I am totally bewildered as to how it can ever be justified.
I have seen a few sports buggered up due to salary cap constraints, but surely UEFA or FIFA or whoever the hell is in charge on a global level should set SOME sort of restriction, at say £50,000 a week?
Surely this would benefit the game, with players staying "loyal" to a club (to an extent) and individual leagues being more competative. I mean, if you are a player already earning £50k/week, you wouldn't necessarily be tempted to move to the Chelseas and Man Citys of the world because they couldn't offer you any more money anyway.
This would also allow clubs to put more money into their stadiums, academies, and football at a grass-roots level, which would increase the quality in young talent coming through.
Absolutely ludicrous....
Seventh is not the NEW top ? it is 7th.
If you are happy with the 4th most successful club in top flight history coming 7th every year then it is no surprise you support Black Bill.
The model of asset stripping in any industry is very short term and at EFC it has now run to its conclusion. Unless and until we get rid of the cancer that is this board we will never progress.
Do you seriously think Moyes and the existing squad of players is capable of sustaining their motivation in this situation?
"Seventh is the new top" ? what a fucking twat of a thing to say.
So Richard, should we just give up then? Why even bother turning up for the FA Cup? Tell you what ? why not just sell the lot and become FC of Everton? Fact is, Everton are not far off being a top top side; we don't need billions ? we need our Chairman and Board to do their fucking job right and provide the manager with a chance.
How many players do we really need to become contenders? 4-5? The board missed the boat when we cracked the top 4 a few years ago ? just imagine if we had invested in top players then, we could be regulars on the top 4 by now, but hey that would be too much to ask, wouldn't it, Doddy?
The part where I disagree is that 7th is acceptable. It fucking well isn't and those who seem happy to roll over and believe the shite spouted by our Board are just holding us back.
I'd love to say I give up and walk away... though, as we all know, we can't. Doesn't mean I have to agree with the status quo or accept it as any less than a total dereliction of duty on the Board's part to take the 4th most successful team in England, mortgage us to the hilt, and treat the fans like ill-educated morons.
We see right through you, Bill. Just piss off will you....
The Utds, Real Madrids, Barcelonas, Benficas, Portos, Bayerns win most; the only country breaking the rule is France where Lyon have done best, fundamentally by spending a trophyless 10-15 years and multi-milions on scouting and getting the best African players on low wages to join them, which over the last 7 years or so has finally bourne fruit... but now they are struggling again as their players move on to better wages.
Everton clearly cannot compete with the Top 6 in the UK , and it was interesting to hear Paddy Barclay (journalist) today stating the current situation is totally unsustainable except for the clubs owned by Billionaires ? even Man Utd with their £220k/wk for Rooney, and other Utd players now also wanting a huge rises ? Fernandez will be tripling his wages. You are entering an era where the average club wage for the Top 6 clubs will be £100k, meaning a wage bill for players alone of £120-130M a year. Our total current income is only £80M of which about £40-50M comes from Sky.
We really do need a strong Uefa with its new rules being met or a total collapse of the Murdoch Empire in order to bring sanity to "The Beautiful Game" ... and allowing Everton to compete again.
Man City were no-marks before they got the stadium and were bought out a good few times in the last few years. Chelsea were nothing better than a cup side before they got bought out and their ground is still a tiny shithole. Accepting second-best isn't good enough.
Voltaire pretty much nailed the current fault with Evertonians: "Every man is guilty of all the good he didn't do"; carrying on doing nothing is not the correct course of action.
More spineless toss from the most insidious propagandist on ToffeeWeb.
I have been a season ticket holder for nearly 25 years... at today's prices that totals about £12,500 that I have given to the club for tickets.
How many days' wages does that 25 years worth of season tickets cover of Mikel Arteta's wages? ... TWO!
It's not the fact that 7th under the current regime is pretty good... It's the fact that after 10 years in the Prem under BB we are potless, have god knows how many mortgages on GP, no business plan, have to sell to survive, and haven't spent a penny on decent players for years
It's a fucking awful mess that must make Dean, Labone and Ball turn in their graves.
After so many lies and false dawns (as brilliantly laid out in the letter to the press on the front page), it makes articles like yours prove how incredibly naive and out of touch you are with Everton fans of 2011.
You get called a lot of names because of your mindless Lieut George enthusiasm but Jesus, Richard, face fucking reality.
We ain't going nowhere, as Bob Dylan once wrote, and Roger and Gram sang.
I'm very grateful to you and Bill, and will sit in my seat next season like a Stepford Wife, cheering when the scoreboard tells me, and be jolly happy with my lot.
Nil Satis Nisi Optimum, hey?
On the bightside, if Saha is on a 'pay as you play' contract, I've covered his wages over the last few seasons!
At long last, fans are beginning to come together to do something ? what it is none of us yet know ? but we must do SOMETHING we cannot just slip quietly into the abyss.
Doddy, you're very misguided writing this; I suspect you think you're amusing in a contrary way........ you're not.
Man City are receiving a shedload of money under the guise of naming rights to swerve the imminent changes ? it really is dream world stuff.
For us simpletons, could you explain exactly when the bubble burst? What the direct evidence is of this? And how exactly it is "filtering through"?
If 7th is as good as it will ever get for Everton under Kenwright, then I choose regime change.
Sorry lads who love to denegrate this man but, unless we find another league to play in, this is the way it will be. Much as we may love to believe it, this is not of Kenright's making. It is the current state of the Premier League.
Roll forward to today and Everton are a miserable effort of a footballing business and Kenwright voted Carter back onto his Board, a Board that has continually fucked up and failed as a business. 12 years of this is Kenshite's making, his only profits have come through selling players, his current lack of ideas means no new players and no ideas of how to generate any income to replace the ones we have when they leave or retire. I'd say that pretty much gives him a legacy no Evertonian should be proud of.
The downward spiral of debt hasn't happened overnight, it's grown under his appaling lack of control over the last decade and more.
What's Latin for "Nothing but seventh is good enough"? Maybe we can put it on the new shirts?
Agree with the points and general tone of your post Richard, excepting the "miracle" part.
Our greatest frustration is lacking the dollar or two for the guy who not only puts it in the net, but also poses a constant threat of scoring for the other manager to worry about. The Top teams have that guy (or two). We don't. And there's the difference.
Kenwright etal are incompetent? I don't need convincing. But Man City has splashed the cash above and beyond what's needed. How many more EPL Trophies have they lifted than us recently?
The lack of funding definitely makes it difficult to move up. Just on squad depth alone. But I see us not just as an also-ran, but a club on the brink of proving the Little Engine That Could, can.
He's brought in many new players these last two seasons. I look forward to this season next.
I would LOVE us to be competing for the league title again but Rupert Murdoch with his business acumen and astute understanding of the inherent greed in human nature, helped to create an environment where only insane amounts of money can now buy success.
Bill Kenwright is guilty of many things ? but the absurdly unlevel playing field we currently frequent cannot be attributed to him.
It is this blind hatred and unthinking KENWRIGHT OUT mentality that I object to. Sad to say but even if we allow ourselves to fantasise and attain to the same level as an Arsenal: wonderful ground, astute manager, fantastic football etc We would still find our star player wanting to go to pastures new, other key members of the squad either moving on or unsettled and sections of the support calling for the head of the manager because we "haven't won anything" for a few years.
I am all for robust debate but this whole thing goes MUCH deeper than any of the current vitriol thrown in Kenwright's direction.
If we were really serious ? and by 'we' I mean every supporter of every club that doesn't get into the exclusive 'Sky 6' (and that is a heck of a lot of people) ? then we would boycott all Pemier League games and cancel our subscriptions to Sky. That is the ONLY way we will do anything about the current pitiful situation.
Now I'll risk the wrath of my wife and cancel my Sky subscription here in Oz if you agree to stop going to the match.
What do you think?
Painful choice ? hey, everyone? Much easier to just type KENWRIGHT OUT, isn't it?
The mentality of accepting 7th as a good finish is poor; I want 1st; I want to win every game, I want my team to be the best ? even if they don't, its what I want not second.
Who's to say we won't get off to a good start for a change and maintain it? Who's to know if, this year, one or two youngsters force Moyes to play them and cause older tired legs to push that bit harder? Who's to say we won't have a crippling injury list this year? Who's to say the spin of the gods won't fall our way?
FFS, let's have some positive thoughts and not be down before a ball is kicked. COYB
Kings Dock, NTL, Kirkby, Wayne Rooney, 'watch this space'
The bloke is a disaster as Everton chairman.
The sooner he fucks off the quicker my passion and financial support for Everton will return.
Cup glory is our only chance, which begs the question about playing our strongest side available for these games and resting players from the league games instead, even if it means a tenth place finish for example.
Salary cap is the answer, any gifts from the club like boats and mansions can be taxable, so that loophole shouldn't exist.
Forget off shore account transfers, that is tax evasion and that's what Porstmouth and Harry were upto, allegedly.
The vitriol aimed at BK is justly deserved; in his stewardship he has two failed ground moves including the one which could have potentially put Everton on a level playing field with many of its competitors and seen him finally get his thirty pieces of silver and leave in the Kings Dock and put Everton in a position to compete. Instead we can't even afford a loan player, funds gained from loaning our players out have vanished (probably to our creditors), funds from the sale of two players have vanished (again probably to creditors).
Are you seriously saying that BK has an excuse because despite having 12 years to build the club as a business that Man City have broken what was already broken?
You can't use the current obscene wealth available to Man City and Chelski before them as an excuse to what happened over the best part of the last twelve years.
Not true. We were already screwed on the pitch and off it. The final season the the old First Division, Man Utd came 2nd in the league and Arsenal came 4th. Evertyon came 12th.
"BK has been Chairman of the club for 12 years, look at the model over the last 12 years: not just Chelski and Man City buyouts, Everton missed the boat a long long long time ago." Very true. A long, long time ago. Longer than 12 years in fact. The growth between 1992-93 and 2002-03 was huge. That is when Everton missed the boat.
"You can't use the current obscene wealth available to Man City and Chelski before them as an excuse to what happened over the best part of the last 12 years."
You can't use what has happened over the best of the last 12 years as an excuse for what happend over the previous 12.
86-87 - Everton 1st, Liverpool 2nd, Spurs 3rd
87-88 - Liverpool 1st, Man Utd 2nd, Forest 3rd
88-89 - Arsenal 1st, Liverpool 2nd, Forest 3rd
89-90 - Liverpool 1st, Villa 2nd, Spurs 3rd
90-91 - Arsenal 1st, Liverpool 2nd, Crystal Palace 3rd
91-92 - Leeds 1st, Man U 2nd, Shef Wed 3rd
In that list alone over just 6 years you'll see 10 different teams in the top 3, and not the same faces every year including Arsenal and Man U, the RS being the most consistent top 3 finishers. An implication that other than the RS we pretty much started equally as capable, BK wasn't chairman at the time it kicked off but Carter, his lifelong board member elect was, BK was on PJ's board before he took over to go beyond his 12 years; even if you want to argue he didn't have any control, he was privvy to what went on.
Everton have never finished in the top 3 of the EPL but other teams did including Villa, Norwich, Blackburn, Newcastle and Forest.
However, right now (with his mate in charge), I can't disagree when he actually says, "Everton's battle plan must now focus firmly on being the 'Best of the Rest'".
Problem with this is, if he's right, we are all forced to ask ourself ? "So... what IS the fucking point?"
I've said before that from 71 to 84, at the start of each season, I was genuinely full of optimism that a title win was possible.
The fact it didn't happen didn't mean it WASN'T possible, it just meant there were others who were better (nb: better, not five times richer!).
Then in 85 we won the title because WE were better ? it WAS possible!
It definitely isn't now though, which is why this will be my third season on the bounce without a season-ticket.
I don't mind us not winning the league, as long as it's a realistic possibility... and I don't mind losing games as long as we give it a good go and try to play attacking football.
Exactly.
Sings: "And now your gonna believe uuuuuuus, we're gonna finish best of the rest!"
Between 71-84 our average league position was 10th.
Over the last 14 years or average league position has been 10th.
What made you so optimistic that you genuinely were full of optimism that a title win was possible back then, but now, finishing on average in the same position as we did in the earlier period, you don't think it is possible?
Is it just you were a lot more optimistic in your younger days?
Any true supporter of Everton should not even consider writing anything that supports the notion that seventh is the best we should hope to achieve.
If the fans don't act, nobody will. You feel free to keep buying a season ticket and accepting seventh as the best we can hope for. I still buy my season ticket... but seventh will never, ever be acceptable ? and neither is the way the club is being run. End of!
About 20% of what made me optimistic back then probably WAS 'youthful optimism', but it was also the knowledge that if we got things 'right', we had as good a chance as anyone of winning silverware.
And what do I mean by getting things 'right'?
Right manager, right coach, right board, right tactics, right players, right training etc.
Well, we didn't get those things right (or better than anyone else) from 71 to 85...but when we did, WE were champions.
Now however that is impossible, because NOW to get things right (ie: win the title) you need money - bundles of it.
You need to be able to spend big on players and pay them big money.
This is NOT my opinion, this is a proven fact.
And THAT is the difference.
When exactly did Everton get left behind? Is it in the last 12 years (as you suggest at #36?). Or was it during the years previous?
For my money it was during the previous, Johnson, years. You say that during those years Kenwright, although not in charge, was certainly privvy to what was going on. I agree ... and unlike any of us sat at our PC's whining on here he actually did something about it, by leading a cosortium to oust Peter Johnson.
The opportunity for huge financial growth, in terms of being one of the sky darlings and all the privileges that come with it at least, had long, long past by 1999. You need to have been sat at the top table between 1992 and 1997
Since Kenwright has been in charge the only way back into that elite group is by getting into huge debt. The only two clubs who have done it are Man City and Chelsea, who have only achieved it by securing huge investment from billlionare sugar daddies.
Another point, for your info, is that Kenwright has only been Everton chairman since 2004 (7 years).
I'm not defending Kenwright - I would love to see him sell up to someone rich - but there are some things to legitimately blame him for, there are other things where you are just clutching at straws.
Since Moyes's first full season, our average league position is higher than 10th. We compare favourably with everyone (ie, higher) over the past 6/7/8 years with the exception of the rich boys.
Finishing higher than 6th is pretty much an aspiration. Depressing though that is.
Yes i 100% agree with you. I was simply responding to Eugene's post about 71-84. I was just lookiking at that 13/14 year period and the last 13/14 years we have had.
Eugene,
I agree with you that if we are to win the title nowadays and consistently finish in the top few places we are going to have to spend bundles of cash. It is hardly a surprise that since Chelsea and Manchester City were taken over by billionaires that they have gone from "also rans" to genuine title contenders.
That is why i can't understand people saying we don't need a multi millionaire or billionaire in order for us to compete for the league year in year out. Well yes we do.
Indeed. Looking at this dispassionately cash translates to higher league position, and increased likelihood of trophies.
Of the poorer clubs we have been closest to breaking the glass ceiling and finishing in the top five. Its harder now than when we achieved 5th a few years ago because Spurs and City have proved they now have financial clout, resulting in higher placings, so increasing the pressure on the blues.
The average (10th) might be the same over two periods of 14 years, BUT if you make it 17 years, back then (70-87) we have THREE titles (plus a runners-up spot) and our average starts to look a LOT better.
Add three years to this present 'reign' and it'll be no titles and still 10th (or 9th...or 12th, plus guaranteed, NO title).
You say to WIN the league now we need a billionaire/millionaire?
Couldn't agree more.
In fact there are actually ONLY two possibilities of Evertonians EVER seeing us win a title again.
1) We get a billionaire owner prepared to spend his/her billions on players.
2) Support and/or season-ticket sales, at the non-billionaire clubs begins to dwindle, as it occurs to supporters 'What's the fuckin' point playing in a league we have ABSOLUTELY NO CHANCE of winning?' and as a consequence, Sky/The EPL etc collapses on it's arse.
Either one will do me, but (sadly) neither of those two scenarios look likely in the near future.
Or has time rewritten every line...
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1 Posted 10/07/2011 at 14:52:57
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I do agree to a degree what you are saying as the money is so obscene that we cannot possibly compete with it in terms of winning the league; however, doesn't that contradict your support of Kenwright just abit?
Even though you are entitled to cherish him, regardless of what I or anyone else thinks, surely you would recognise that his financial clout is not fit for the modern day purpose?