Season 2011-12
The Mail Bag
Top 3 Goalscorers
52 Comments: Since the fantastic Andrei Kanchelskis (1995-96), our top 3 league goalscorers (in a single season, pedants) have been:
- Yakubu 15 (2007-08)
- Saha 13 (2009-10)
- Campbell 12 (1999-2k)
Now ? what price Jermaine Beckford to break into that list in 2011-12?
He managed 10 last season without much time on the pitch.
Surely, if he gets on to the list, those who still say he is "not a Premier League Player" will have to fold their hands.
Personally, I think he'll do it if he gets the time on the pitch. If he plays more than two-thirds of the season, he'll do it.
Good luck, Becks!
Tom Brown , Posted 13/07/2011 at 21:17:00
Comments
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He's not a Premier League player!! Simple as that!! He'll miss many more than he will score!!
Off the top of my head, 3 of those goals were in cup competition; so it's more like 7 league goals
(2) and (3) - Get a grip. The guy jumped 2 leagues. Of course he had difficulties. Jesus. And they say Americans are the "I want it now" people.
Tom Brown - You're on what we all see plainly and can't deny as our only problem. We don't finish. Finishers tilt the pitch downward in their club's favor.
LFC finished 4 points ahead of us with a 9 goal better GD. If we had the guy(s) to do no more than give us the same GD, Top 5 would be a cert.
I'll now go set myself on fire. Not in the Viet Nam War buddhist way. But in a smoke hashish way.
As far as you know.
Tom Brown - You're on what we all see plainly and can't deny as our only problem. We don't finish. Finishers tilt the pitch downward in their club's favor.
LFC finished 4 points ahead of us with a 9 goal better GD. If we had the guy(s) to do no more than give us the same GD, Top 5 would be a cert.
I'll now go set myself on fire. Not in the Viet Nam War buddhist way. But in a smoke hashish way.
As far as you know.
Bloody hell Becks gets some stick on this site. As James points out he jumped two leagues to be with us last year and had limited chances.
Sure we would all like to sign someone as clinical as David Villa but its not going to happen is it.
So forgive me but I'm willing to cut Becks a bit of slack. I don't care if he has 5 chances a game and scores 2. He is a rare comodity in our squad..at least he creates fucking chances.
Sure we would all like to sign someone as clinical as David Villa but its not going to happen is it.
So forgive me but I'm willing to cut Becks a bit of slack. I don't care if he has 5 chances a game and scores 2. He is a rare comodity in our squad..at least he creates fucking chances.
I think he's done ok myself and jumping two leagues or not, I'd have him over Victor even if he had both legs removed. I was also pleased to see him narked at getting substituted (don't get me wrong, I hope he got his arse kicked afterwards and a severe frog-eyeing from Moyes, but I'd rather that than someone who...etc). I think he'll get a few goals next year and hopefully feel a bit more 'settled' and..er...part of the furniture..type stuff.
@Tommy (3)
Thanks, yes, 8 were in the league and 2 were in cups. However, my point is that he managed 8 in the league with only about 1400 minutes on the pitch. 1400 minutes is about 40% of the league season. If he can score 8 when only playing 40% of the season, and in his first season in the top flight, then there is an interesting debate to have about how many he can get if he plays more.
Personally, I think 13 to beat Campbell's 12 to get on the list should be within his ability.
However, I think many people have an inflated view of how many goals a player needs to be hitting to be a top Premier League goal scorer.......
I'm backing Becks to get 13 or more next season. Some will say that is not enough or that we need a "20 goal a season" striker. Do they know how many players scored more than 13 last season? FIVE! And only 2 scored more than 20.
Tevez 21
Berbatov21
Van Persie 18
Bent 17
Odemwingie 15.
We'd love to have a 20 goal a season striker but these days they are rare. I'll be happy if Becks gets 13+ and somoone else can get into double figures too.
By the way, I'm not arguing that we don't need to buy a forward, I think we desperately need one. However, I don't see this new player as being a replacement for Becks.
Thanks, yes, 8 were in the league and 2 were in cups. However, my point is that he managed 8 in the league with only about 1400 minutes on the pitch. 1400 minutes is about 40% of the league season. If he can score 8 when only playing 40% of the season, and in his first season in the top flight, then there is an interesting debate to have about how many he can get if he plays more.
Personally, I think 13 to beat Campbell's 12 to get on the list should be within his ability.
However, I think many people have an inflated view of how many goals a player needs to be hitting to be a top Premier League goal scorer.......
I'm backing Becks to get 13 or more next season. Some will say that is not enough or that we need a "20 goal a season" striker. Do they know how many players scored more than 13 last season? FIVE! And only 2 scored more than 20.
Tevez 21
Berbatov21
Van Persie 18
Bent 17
Odemwingie 15.
We'd love to have a 20 goal a season striker but these days they are rare. I'll be happy if Becks gets 13+ and somoone else can get into double figures too.
By the way, I'm not arguing that we don't need to buy a forward, I think we desperately need one. However, I don't see this new player as being a replacement for Becks.
He may miss more than he will score, but his movement will find him more chances than any forward we have on our books and if he played enough times would guarantee scoring more than the lot of them to, so if he is not prem class what are they?
I do feel like we need another striker, but my initial summer delusion has now dwindled to the point that I would be happy if we just signed N?Zogbia (this in itself is looking less likely by the day).
I think in this scenario Beckford should be given the responsibility of being our no 1 forward. I agree he misses more than he scores, but so do most strikers. He creates chances for himself and as pointed out, scored eight league goals without getting a proper run. He has pace, which is something our team lacks in general and this will be his second season in the Prem, he knows what to expect week in week out.
I think in this scenario Beckford should be given the responsibility of being our no 1 forward. I agree he misses more than he scores, but so do most strikers. He creates chances for himself and as pointed out, scored eight league goals without getting a proper run. He has pace, which is something our team lacks in general and this will be his second season in the Prem, he knows what to expect week in week out.
Sean#2....Whether you like it or not, Beckford IS a premier league player, and if he misses two for every goal he gets, then he will be top scorer in the PL this year because he gets 5 or 6 chances every game. So we can start rubbing our hands together for that one!!
What concerns me most is how many times he will start. Moyes is the problem, not Beckford. He will always score goals....let him start every game and I am sure you will be swallowing your words Sean. COYB!
What concerns me most is how many times he will start. Moyes is the problem, not Beckford. He will always score goals....let him start every game and I am sure you will be swallowing your words Sean. COYB!
Seems like an unnerving degree of agreement here...?! I even found myself nodding sagely at Eugene's contribution which doesn't happen every day.....
I reckon with a proper run he'd hit that list easily if not top it.
I've liked Beckford from day 1. He seems like an honest pro who wants to do the best he can, his movement is exceptional, he's got really good pace and seems to read the game pretty well too. His only flaw - not the best if you're a striker - is his finishing goes from the sublime to the ridiculous, and more often than not it's the latter. This shouldn't be a suprise to us though - Leeds fans had mixed feelings about losing him as he was a 20+ goal a season striker, only providing you could give him 100+ chances. If you can give him that and forgive him the 80 that go astray, you're left with some goals if nothing else.
My view is he works hard enough and moves smartly enough to carve at least half of those chances out of nothing for himself, so we should give him a bit of leeway when a few go skipping past the corner flag. Without him I don't think there would be any chance whatsoever.
If I was the coach / manager I'd invest my time and energy into him, make Becks no.1 striker and try to find someone young with quality (no, I dont mean Victor) to play alongside him and grow into the no.9 shirt.
Either way - he'll be getting my full support next season.
COYB!
I reckon with a proper run he'd hit that list easily if not top it.
I've liked Beckford from day 1. He seems like an honest pro who wants to do the best he can, his movement is exceptional, he's got really good pace and seems to read the game pretty well too. His only flaw - not the best if you're a striker - is his finishing goes from the sublime to the ridiculous, and more often than not it's the latter. This shouldn't be a suprise to us though - Leeds fans had mixed feelings about losing him as he was a 20+ goal a season striker, only providing you could give him 100+ chances. If you can give him that and forgive him the 80 that go astray, you're left with some goals if nothing else.
My view is he works hard enough and moves smartly enough to carve at least half of those chances out of nothing for himself, so we should give him a bit of leeway when a few go skipping past the corner flag. Without him I don't think there would be any chance whatsoever.
If I was the coach / manager I'd invest my time and energy into him, make Becks no.1 striker and try to find someone young with quality (no, I dont mean Victor) to play alongside him and grow into the no.9 shirt.
Either way - he'll be getting my full support next season.
COYB!
Not sure how anyone could give Beckford the stick he gets. He came up two leagues, was never a lone striker and never will be yet a decent haul in his first go and din't get as much game time as he should have, compare to Anichebe who has something like 12 career goals never mind season goals. Play the lad off a holding player and he will score goals, I don't care if he misses as he converts some as you have to shoot to score, we don't have enough players who do even that.
I will never forget his solo goal against Chelsea... How many goals do we score like that? The late strike he managed against Bolton was pretty special as well.
Seriously guys - he cost next to nothing to sign, came from two divisions below our level, and you're expecting Lineker Mk II. I think he did well, and I hope he gets more starts this year.
Seriously guys - he cost next to nothing to sign, came from two divisions below our level, and you're expecting Lineker Mk II. I think he did well, and I hope he gets more starts this year.
If, because of the number of opportunities that he has squandered, Beckford is truly as bad as some on here suggest, then does that logic not damn all the other strikers as well? Because if our other strikers have the same number of opportunities as Beckford has had (per minute on the pitch) shouldn?t we logically have strikers regularly achieving 20+ per season? That we do not is a complement to Beckford?s achievement in creating the number of opportunities that he does. Surely as Tom says, more time on the pitch can only help him improve his conversion ratio?
The Sky is the limit for Becks, all he needs is our innovative attack minded coaches to impart some of their brilliant goal scoring experience and, er er', never mind.
The problem for Beckford is Moyes'
reluctance to play 2 up top, because he can't play the lone striker role.
reluctance to play 2 up top, because he can't play the lone striker role.
Spot on Brian, Beckford can't really play the lone striker role consistently at this level, that is why he won't play all the games next season. He needs someone alongside him ideally to hold the ball up. Yak?
The second highest goalscorer in Premier league history also missed more than he scored, and missed a lot of sitters. Yet he scored 55 times in 70 appearances for Newcastle, averaged almost a goal every two games for Man United in his 6 years their and finished with 187 premier league goals, bettered only by Alan Shearer.
I see a lot of Andy Cole in Becks, he isn't the most consistent finisher in the league but he gets into the right positions and therefore has more chances than his peers, so he will still get the goals.
I see a lot of Andy Cole in Becks, he isn't the most consistent finisher in the league but he gets into the right positions and therefore has more chances than his peers, so he will still get the goals.
Tevez , Berbatov and Van Persie also get service from fast midfile play.
City also now (they have become a media fave) get plentys of penaltys. Tevez takes them all. Beckford didn't have one pen last season.
Also Had many millions did theses 3 cost and Earn? As we know Beckford cost £00.00
City also now (they have become a media fave) get plentys of penaltys. Tevez takes them all. Beckford didn't have one pen last season.
Also Had many millions did theses 3 cost and Earn? As we know Beckford cost £00.00
Sorry the the typos guys, my keyboard at work is all over the place.
He'll always be value for money because he cost nothing. He's done well but i don't think he was ever brought here to be our main striker. With our financial problems however it looks like this coming season he will have that weight of expectation on his shoulders. I agree with others, played in a duo up front will definitely bring out more of his game.
Sorry Sean, but your comment is negative, give the lad some credit
Sorry Sean, but your comment is negative, give the lad some credit
He is a bettter instinctive striker because when he has time to think about it he tries to put his boot through the leather.....and usually balloons it.
I am glad his chance against Chelsea at their gaffe came to his head, other wise it would have been in Row Z.
His goals against Bolton, Blackpool and Chelsea where class and would have still been talked about now had he been playing for the Sky darling clubs.
Even his goal against the Shite was a corker.
I am glad his chance against Chelsea at their gaffe came to his head, other wise it would have been in Row Z.
His goals against Bolton, Blackpool and Chelsea where class and would have still been talked about now had he been playing for the Sky darling clubs.
Even his goal against the Shite was a corker.
@13 completely agree you do have to shoot to score and hardly any do! Pienaar was the worst culprit closely followed by Arteta who will always look to pass. It's infuriating!
Beckford is a premier league player end of. He cost us nothing and scored some cracking goals especially against Chelsea twice! Lay off because we don't have anyone better!
Beckford is a premier league player end of. He cost us nothing and scored some cracking goals especially against Chelsea twice! Lay off because we don't have anyone better!
To be fair to the bloke, he didn't start many games and didn't feature at all in some (being stuck in traffic doesn't help) so his return is pretty good. Coming from 2 leagues down as well, the kid can play a bit. He just needs game-time and as a result, confidence.
On the subject of missing more than he scores - anyone remember a bloke called Andrew Cole?
On the subject of missing more than he scores - anyone remember a bloke called Andrew Cole?
Without wishing to overly complicate matters, or indeed denigrate Beckford, I think it's shallow just to argue about 99% of strikers simply in terms of how many goals they score.
It's a very rare player that can give enough as an out and out goalscorer to enable one to discount any other aspect of their game. Gary Linaker was just such a lethal player with pace whose mere presence on the pitch was enough to influence the game (he certainly gave the opposition plenty to worry about).
At the other extreme are people like Graeme Sharpe, whose massive contribution to the team included a fantastc ability to hold the ball and then lay it off accurately.
Again, not to denigrate Beckford, he is neither a Linaker nor a Sharpe. But even had we paid milions for him he'd be giving us VFM, and he cost us nowt, so well done to the lad.
It's a very rare player that can give enough as an out and out goalscorer to enable one to discount any other aspect of their game. Gary Linaker was just such a lethal player with pace whose mere presence on the pitch was enough to influence the game (he certainly gave the opposition plenty to worry about).
At the other extreme are people like Graeme Sharpe, whose massive contribution to the team included a fantastc ability to hold the ball and then lay it off accurately.
Again, not to denigrate Beckford, he is neither a Linaker nor a Sharpe. But even had we paid milions for him he'd be giving us VFM, and he cost us nowt, so well done to the lad.
Do you think Beckford's goal against Chelsea would have been goal of the season if say Rooney had scored it? Or what about Suarez?? The Liverpool Echo would have had a fucking meltdown in self-gratification if he had scored it.
Don't think Match of the Day gave it more than one playing did they???
Seeing as it bounced off his shin, there was a large slice of fortune in the goal, hence why it wasn't given much coverage. Even the shot was a bit scuffed if I remember rightly.
It's obvious he's got the goods to anyone who knows anything about footie.
Yes he misses a fair few, but he most likely made them chances for himself.
If he played in front of a genuine playmaker who can see a run and thread a pass he'd score easy 20 goals.
Unfortunately for him he doesn't so he probably wont ans some will blame him, in the same way our forwards always get the blame for our lack of goals when the truth is it's a lack of midfielders taking a chance on passing through people.
Osman tried this toward the end of the season and looked twice the player he normally is so hopefully he is set for a big season, probably on the left.
Yes he misses a fair few, but he most likely made them chances for himself.
If he played in front of a genuine playmaker who can see a run and thread a pass he'd score easy 20 goals.
Unfortunately for him he doesn't so he probably wont ans some will blame him, in the same way our forwards always get the blame for our lack of goals when the truth is it's a lack of midfielders taking a chance on passing through people.
Osman tried this toward the end of the season and looked twice the player he normally is so hopefully he is set for a big season, probably on the left.
James Marshall ? he went the lengh of the field late in the game, it was a fine goal and should have got plenty of air time. Best goal scored by an Everton player for years, still makes me go "Wow!" when i see it...
Good first season and he will benefit from last season, 15 goals this year and he will be worshiped by the Everton faithful!!
James the shin bit is a bit ironic given Shrek's bicycle kick goal was also a shinner and t5he media creamed their pants over that, that one literally could have ended up anywhere.
All top coaches and managers say that they worry more about a striker that doesn't get many chances than they do about a striker that misses loads of chances - because the hardest thing to do is create chances through movement.
I bet if someone did a study of how many chances for every minute on the pitch the top 30 prem scorers had, there would be no-one to touch Beckford.
I say well done JB - keep improving and you will be a menace next season!
I bet if someone did a study of how many chances for every minute on the pitch the top 30 prem scorers had, there would be no-one to touch Beckford.
I say well done JB - keep improving and you will be a menace next season!
The only lucky moment in Beckford's goal against Chelsea was the one ricochet past Terry. At the end of the day he picked the ball up in his own penalty area ran past several players and scored down the other end! Name one other player that you've seen do this? George Weah is the only one I can think of- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bt49QZwpru4
Anthony, Maradonna, Ryan Giggs and George Best - not that I'm comparing Beckford with either of those three!
It's not just Beckford at fault; we need someone supplying him from midfield.
Truth is that he's about as good as we can expect to get at the moment - 3rd rate.
The Shite are getting all the 2nd-raters (Downing, Adam, Henderson) and look how much they're paying for that pile of shite, so I think we've got off lucky.
Moyes wouldn't pay £15m for someone as bad a Downing FFS and I think that's just as well.
We can't even afford £5m to buy anyone - average players these days are going for £20m so how can we compete with that; why would we want to when we're totally skint anyway.....?!?!?!?!?
We'll have to make do until someone comes along with £500m for Moyes to spend.......
Truth is that he's about as good as we can expect to get at the moment - 3rd rate.
The Shite are getting all the 2nd-raters (Downing, Adam, Henderson) and look how much they're paying for that pile of shite, so I think we've got off lucky.
Moyes wouldn't pay £15m for someone as bad a Downing FFS and I think that's just as well.
We can't even afford £5m to buy anyone - average players these days are going for £20m so how can we compete with that; why would we want to when we're totally skint anyway.....?!?!?!?!?
We'll have to make do until someone comes along with £500m for Moyes to spend.......
Beckford is a good striker who will get better. Gary Lineker would struggle in the current dour set up.
I reckon the Yak will be alright this year with a good preseason behind him.
Becks has a turn of foot and that gets him into scoring positions against slower defenders even defenders that Redshite and Chelski have. He will do for me if Saha can be a more regular partner and our dodgy midfield can give the support.
We also have Velios who surely has to step up this season ahead of Anichebe who just doesn't offer anything.
A pacy forward is always a pain in the neck for defences which play the offside as most teams do these days.
As signing new players looks remote, Moyes has to start playing his fringe players more often as the normal ''shoe-ins'' seem to be inconsistant.
The trouble is that Moyes has his favourite players and keeps believing they will eventually get it right but we all know that's unlikely without a fresh outlook. The last few seasons have seen bad starts and we have to hope that this will not be another.
We also have Velios who surely has to step up this season ahead of Anichebe who just doesn't offer anything.
A pacy forward is always a pain in the neck for defences which play the offside as most teams do these days.
As signing new players looks remote, Moyes has to start playing his fringe players more often as the normal ''shoe-ins'' seem to be inconsistant.
The trouble is that Moyes has his favourite players and keeps believing they will eventually get it right but we all know that's unlikely without a fresh outlook. The last few seasons have seen bad starts and we have to hope that this will not be another.
He might not be the best finisher, but he's fast, has good movement, and seems to find himself quite often in goalscoring situations.
C'mon, Becks ? get 15 this season and prove the doubters wrong!!
C'mon, Becks ? get 15 this season and prove the doubters wrong!!
Paul #10. Do you know what is more annoying than people whinging? It's people like you who come on here and whinge about people whinging. I'm sure I'm not the only one who would rather you just fucked off in silence.
And as you will see, there are positive and negative points above. That's what makes ToffeeWeb so interesting. You'll get the "happy happy joy joy love-in" you crave when we win the league.
And as you will see, there are positive and negative points above. That's what makes ToffeeWeb so interesting. You'll get the "happy happy joy joy love-in" you crave when we win the league.
Let's get real, Beckford is not the answer. He's a trier, he misses more than he scores & his starts-to-goals ratio ain't that bad but is anyone really convinced?
The Chelsea goal could be described as the worst great goal of all time or the greatest shit goal of all time. Although I have to admit if certain other players had've picked up the ball in their own box & ended up netting at the other end without the help of any team-mate, we would never have heard the last of it.
So this us how far we've fallen. Beckford is as good as it gets. Then we really are royally fucked.
We can either accept that or chuck a load of stats into the mix and claim he's up there with the likes of Van Persie, Tevez, Berbatov etc. Deluded!!!
The problem with this list is that it only has strikers. We all know Everton strikers these last 6 years are there for dressing and goals are scored by MF and DF. Heck, maybe Howard has scored more goals that that list!
Tom Brown - Good, and correct, start anyway.
If Becks is taking his career seriously finally (He's what 26-27 years old?), I say the sky's the limit for the next 2-3 seasons.
Really, what other players have jumped from League 1 to the the PL, had limited playing time (warranted, by the way), and scored in double digits? In the last 5 years. Who? The last 10 years?
As long as he keeps his head on straight, his body will follow, and EFC will benefit.
I'll take a chance. 20-25 goals next season.
If Becks is taking his career seriously finally (He's what 26-27 years old?), I say the sky's the limit for the next 2-3 seasons.
Really, what other players have jumped from League 1 to the the PL, had limited playing time (warranted, by the way), and scored in double digits? In the last 5 years. Who? The last 10 years?
As long as he keeps his head on straight, his body will follow, and EFC will benefit.
I'll take a chance. 20-25 goals next season.
If you use figures to make a point then you have to be ready to make further comparisons. These numbers IN context are not actually that bad. A quick look at footbalistic.com shows the following stats for the two teams who have had most similar results to us over the last decade or so.
Aston villa:
Juan Pablo Angel 16 (2003-04)
Julian Joachim 14 (1998-99)
Gabriel Agbonlahor 13 (2009-10)
John Carew 13 (2007-08)
Spurs:
Jermain Defoe 18 (2009-10)
Robbie Keane 16 (2005-06)
Dimitar Berbatov 15 (2007-08)
And they have both spent three times as much money.
Aston villa:
Juan Pablo Angel 16 (2003-04)
Julian Joachim 14 (1998-99)
Gabriel Agbonlahor 13 (2009-10)
John Carew 13 (2007-08)
Spurs:
Jermain Defoe 18 (2009-10)
Robbie Keane 16 (2005-06)
Dimitar Berbatov 15 (2007-08)
And they have both spent three times as much money.
Bren, doesn't your point support the OP's view regarding how well Becks has done in his first season?
Bren completely correct. Thanks for the stats that support my view that Becks has done well and my personal opinion that he will do well next year, given the chance.
Also see my point at number 7 where I pointed out that only 5 players managed to score more than 13 goals in the Premier league last season, and only 2 got to 20+.
Also see my point at number 7 where I pointed out that only 5 players managed to score more than 13 goals in the Premier league last season, and only 2 got to 20+.
I might be wrong but if he played every league game for 90 mins and in a 4-4-2 formation then I think he would get into the 20s but it won't happen because Moyesey will not play 4-4-2 and will only use the kid every now and again... that useless lump known as Vic will get more minutes this season... and will not score a single goal.
And even if he hasn't done brilliantly, players fortunes CAN change.
Look at this feller, seems to be rather inept to begin with, but then they just play a bit of Rocky and...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPSvsrG2zg8&feature=related
(wonder if he's available!)
Look at this feller, seems to be rather inept to begin with, but then they just play a bit of Rocky and...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPSvsrG2zg8&feature=related
(wonder if he's available!)
Don - The 'kid' is 27!!!!
I like Beckford, he will frustrate as he will miss good chances but the sign of a good striker is he will get back into a goalscoring position and not hide and has confidence.
We have a lot more goalscoring chances through his pace and positioning when he is on the pitch. His movement will create space for others also, he got 7 league goals last season after taking a age to get his first. Its fairly obvious Beckford is more of a threat when he plays alongside another striker and not playing with his back to goal. I dont mind playing one upfront away from home and even the bigger home games but there is room for two strikers in a lot of home games imo.
Beckfords touch is very average but a player who is considered a top striker by many Saha only has a slightly better touch and loses the ball far more than Beckford outside the box.
We have a lot more goalscoring chances through his pace and positioning when he is on the pitch. His movement will create space for others also, he got 7 league goals last season after taking a age to get his first. Its fairly obvious Beckford is more of a threat when he plays alongside another striker and not playing with his back to goal. I dont mind playing one upfront away from home and even the bigger home games but there is room for two strikers in a lot of home games imo.
Beckfords touch is very average but a player who is considered a top striker by many Saha only has a slightly better touch and loses the ball far more than Beckford outside the box.
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