Season 2011-12
The Mail Bag
What's the difference?
34 Comments: Something got me thinking the other day on one of the threads.
Jags' name came up, and one of the lads posted in regards to Jags: "His primary objective is to defend and clear any danger."
That got me thinking about Hibbert, and how this also applies to him, and who I think defensively is just as good as Jags.
When Jags makes mistakes, and there have been a fair few, he hardly gets any grief, but when Hibbert does it, he is absolutely slaughtered.
Two good defenders, one gets slaughtered, the other doesn't. Why?
Brian Waring, Posted 25/07/2011 at 18:10:45
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I think more is expected footballing wise from a full back that a CH, so Hibbo tends to get more stick for his lack of adventure and technique, whereas if you look through most teams, their worst technicians are at centre back, where defensive instincts can make up for a lack of technical ability.
I do agree Jags does seem to have a teflon coat when it comes to his gaffes though.
I do agree Jags does seem to have a teflon coat when it comes to his gaffes though.
I think the two players do not bare comparison.
Jagielka is generally a very impressive player, at his best. I look at, and watch, Hibbert sometimes and think it's the first football match he's ever played in.
Technically, one is very sound and the other is basically, retarded.
Jagielka is generally a very impressive player, at his best. I look at, and watch, Hibbert sometimes and think it's the first football match he's ever played in.
Technically, one is very sound and the other is basically, retarded.
Two bloody good players who have served our club well!
Good point, Brian. I'm not sure of the answer. Mark Tanton, "one is technically very sound" ? Which one? Both are admirable English style defenders with lamentable technique.
HIbbert is positionally very good, probably the best out of all our defenders, what lets him down sometimes is his pace and aerial ability. Jagielka, Baines and Distin make more errors but can get away with them. Both are good defenders... to be honest, how many English right backs can you name that are better than him? There is a dearth in quality in that position at the moment definitely.
#3....moron!!
Yes, Hibbert has his flaws going forward (which are not as bad some on here would have you believe) but there are not many better DEFENDERS playing RB in the Premier League than him. It's easy to slag him but not many get the better of him one-on-one.
Then again, most on here seem to pine for Coleman at RB ahead of Hibbert (or Neville) which is great in theory apart from the fact that the lad CAN'T defend!!
Yes, Hibbert has his flaws going forward (which are not as bad some on here would have you believe) but there are not many better DEFENDERS playing RB in the Premier League than him. It's easy to slag him but not many get the better of him one-on-one.
Then again, most on here seem to pine for Coleman at RB ahead of Hibbert (or Neville) which is great in theory apart from the fact that the lad CAN'T defend!!
Moron? Is that an intelligent counter argument?
I've lost count of the occassions in which opposition, often - gallingly - Liverpool have broken from an Everton attack down our right hand side with devestating effect.
We've also seen Hibbert give away penalties, again against Liverpool, through being disasterously out of position and caught cold.
Finally, Hibbert is in an absolute world apart in his distribution, there is literally no one poorer in the Premier League. He doesn't want the ball, he doesn't know what to do with it.
Hibbert has made a bloody good living through being a substandard footballer, so I have no desire to stick up for him. We've all made him a millionaire.
I've lost count of the occassions in which opposition, often - gallingly - Liverpool have broken from an Everton attack down our right hand side with devestating effect.
We've also seen Hibbert give away penalties, again against Liverpool, through being disasterously out of position and caught cold.
Finally, Hibbert is in an absolute world apart in his distribution, there is literally no one poorer in the Premier League. He doesn't want the ball, he doesn't know what to do with it.
Hibbert has made a bloody good living through being a substandard footballer, so I have no desire to stick up for him. We've all made him a millionaire.
The 'moron' is to counter your very own 'retard' argument.
You clearly see a different game to me so I wont encourage you any further....
No-one would make as many appearances for any Prem side, not just Everton, by being substandard. But then what do I know...
You clearly see a different game to me so I wont encourage you any further....
No-one would make as many appearances for any Prem side, not just Everton, by being substandard. But then what do I know...
There's a couple of differences, I think, that spring to mind. Firstly, as has been alluded to, fans often expect more of fullbacks than they do centre-backs. These days fullbacks are often asked to push on and attack down their wing, exploiting space that isn't available to the wide player ahead of them. If the fullback is technically limited in this regard (and Tony, in fairness, is) then the failing becomes very, very apparent, very, very quickly. However, this ignores the fact that a very limited centre-back (and Jagielka is limited in some respects) can escape attention by simply never going forward or trying to be creative. So where Jags can hide, Hibbert can't.
The second point, I think, relates to Tony being a home-grown player. Like it or not, Everton fans are harsher on players who have come through the youth ranks than they are of players who have signed from another club. You may think Hibbert is rubbish, but I guarantee you if he was on the transfer list tomorrow a number of Premier League clubs would offer him more money than he's getting with us. The lad has shown tremendous loyalty to the club, and he doesn't get the credit for that.
By the way, I'm no huge fan of Hibbert: I think he's a good defender who's very limited going forward. Had he been around in the 70's or 80's (or even part of the 90's), he'd probably have 50 or 60 England caps by now. As it is, he's just not very suited to the modern game. But he doesn't deserve the opprobium he gets on here, and certainly doesn't deserve to be labelled "retarded".
One last point in relation to Jags and a seperate thread on the quality of football at Goodison: people are correct in saying that our midfielders hide at times, and don't show for the ball when the defenders have it. However, there is nothing in that situation to stop the bloody defender from taking the initiative and moving forward with the ball, exploiting the space left by the midfielders and launching an attack himself. Ours, of course, don't; they just whack the ball as hard and as far away from themselves as they can. If there's to be any hope for Rodwell at Everton, it's surely a ball-playing centre-half who can step forward and dictate play from the back.
The second point, I think, relates to Tony being a home-grown player. Like it or not, Everton fans are harsher on players who have come through the youth ranks than they are of players who have signed from another club. You may think Hibbert is rubbish, but I guarantee you if he was on the transfer list tomorrow a number of Premier League clubs would offer him more money than he's getting with us. The lad has shown tremendous loyalty to the club, and he doesn't get the credit for that.
By the way, I'm no huge fan of Hibbert: I think he's a good defender who's very limited going forward. Had he been around in the 70's or 80's (or even part of the 90's), he'd probably have 50 or 60 England caps by now. As it is, he's just not very suited to the modern game. But he doesn't deserve the opprobium he gets on here, and certainly doesn't deserve to be labelled "retarded".
One last point in relation to Jags and a seperate thread on the quality of football at Goodison: people are correct in saying that our midfielders hide at times, and don't show for the ball when the defenders have it. However, there is nothing in that situation to stop the bloody defender from taking the initiative and moving forward with the ball, exploiting the space left by the midfielders and launching an attack himself. Ours, of course, don't; they just whack the ball as hard and as far away from themselves as they can. If there's to be any hope for Rodwell at Everton, it's surely a ball-playing centre-half who can step forward and dictate play from the back.
I think you're showing a lack of understanding of English, aside from football.
The term "retarded" means stunted, or undeveloped. Which for me, sums up Hibbert's technique. Hibbert has the technique of an under 15 player; which at his age is the very definition of "retarded".
You called me a moron, but you should check out the meaning of words you don't understand. Don't be afraid to ask in future Sean.
The term "retarded" means stunted, or undeveloped. Which for me, sums up Hibbert's technique. Hibbert has the technique of an under 15 player; which at his age is the very definition of "retarded".
You called me a moron, but you should check out the meaning of words you don't understand. Don't be afraid to ask in future Sean.
Agree with Dicky on this issue
Both have been excellent servants for EFC and would run through a brick wall for us
Local lads who have been with us since kids always get stick for some reason, as a boy i remember Ebbrell getting torn to shreds by the Paddock
Personally i think Hibbo is our best RB, he aint World class but who at Everton is ???
Both have been excellent servants for EFC and would run through a brick wall for us
Local lads who have been with us since kids always get stick for some reason, as a boy i remember Ebbrell getting torn to shreds by the Paddock
Personally i think Hibbo is our best RB, he aint World class but who at Everton is ???
Jags has limitations, as does Hibbert, but he can read a game. Hibbert looks as though he needs constant instruction. I won't mention heading ability.
Why ? for the same reason Vic gets blamed for defeats even if he`s only played a couple of minutes.
For the same reason people consistantly single out Ossie for attack and refuse to acknowledge has played well even when hes been clearly MoTM.
And for the same reason Rodders is getting pelters even though he is barely out of his teens
For the same reason people consistantly single out Ossie for attack and refuse to acknowledge has played well even when hes been clearly MoTM.
And for the same reason Rodders is getting pelters even though he is barely out of his teens
Hibbert's a local lad.
I don't understand why, but that means he's fair game for more vitriolic (often unfair) criticism than someone from further afield.
Osman, too.
Hell, and Anichebe.
I don't understand why, but that means he's fair game for more vitriolic (often unfair) criticism than someone from further afield.
Osman, too.
Hell, and Anichebe.
Had this discussion before. Don't believe local lads gets singled out for more stick just because they're local - it's generally because they're not good enough.
I've given Osman plenty of slagging,
but its the same with him. Felaini has shown glimpses of what he can do, but he is labelled ' World class '
' Top quality ' ' Would fit into the Barcelona ' etc.
The more I think about it though, Osman has probalby been the more consistant of the two, and even after a great finish to the season, he is still slated. Don't figure.
but its the same with him. Felaini has shown glimpses of what he can do, but he is labelled ' World class '
' Top quality ' ' Would fit into the Barcelona ' etc.
The more I think about it though, Osman has probalby been the more consistant of the two, and even after a great finish to the season, he is still slated. Don't figure.
Probably because that's the first time Osman has played at that level for a run of games in about ten years.
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To me Hibbert was heading towards becoming our best Rightback since Gary Stevens until he caught that bacterial infection in Europe
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Ian, probably because thats the first time Ossie has played in that position for a run of games in about ten years.
Hibbert is not a first team player. Squad player at best!! Shit it the air, no turn of speed, gives away stupid free kicks and anyone with a bit of nouse on his wing makes him look a fool. FA Cup final ring a bell?
I admire Hibbert for his attitude and loyalty as a footballer and his committment could never be faulted. Unfortunately he is only an average footballer who has been made to look worse than he was down the years due to the fact we never had a regular threat on the right hand side of midfield to take the heat off him.
Jimmy Mac would an Everton legend. In for £1m out for £5m, then back on a free. Amazing. Moyesey should do a Lucas Neil with him. Out for a few mill in Jan ... keep those mortgage payments ticking over!!!
I don't mind Hibbert as a player but has already been said he's a very old school right back and is poor going forward with a weak cross in him. I personally think he's a better defender than Neville but Neville pips him on going forward. Unfortunately going forward neither are what the modern game needs and thats more of a wing back.
People have short memories of how many good performances Hibbert and Neville for that matter have put in, mistakes they make are magnified and often lead to opposition goals though so a tough one to compare to a centre half as he has a colleague often next to him to mop up a mistake.
People have short memories of how many good performances Hibbert and Neville for that matter have put in, mistakes they make are magnified and often lead to opposition goals though so a tough one to compare to a centre half as he has a colleague often next to him to mop up a mistake.
You might be right there, Steve, but the same can be said of Jonny, who comes in for lots of abuse when out of position, but looked superb when given a run at CB, be it alongside Lucas Neill or Distin, and hes far from local.
Hibbert is a better defender than Jagielka ? he has also improved his crossing... but usually his forward play lets him down...
They both have the same deficiencies, yet Hibbert is better at the primary objective of their positions... it baffles me.
They both have the same deficiencies, yet Hibbert is better at the primary objective of their positions... it baffles me.
Trying to comapre Jags & Hibbert? Crikey. One is a class defender who has rightly been picked for England and one of the "big four" is after him for obvious reasons.
The other .... is Tony.
The other .... is Tony.
Quick Aiden..........there's another bandwagon passing in a minute. Feel free to jump on!!!
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Okay, girls, pack it in please.
Sean: we have a strict rule on name-calling (#7).
Don't do it.
Sean: we have a strict rule on name-calling (#7).
Don't do it.
But you can call people 'retarded'??
Go figure.... As our American cousins might say!!!
Go figure.... As our American cousins might say!!!
Sean, he wasn't calling you retarded.
You called him a moron.
You called him a moron.
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1 Posted 25/07/2011 at 19:14:41
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I personally couldn't care a less if we have players in the England team.