Season 2011-12
The Mail Bag
Left out! No, should be left(-sided) in
30 Comments: Coleman that is.
Let's face it, Pienaar has not been replaced, many have had a go, with only the odd, semi-decent performance.
Fast forward to Sunday, the ineffectual Osman on the left and Drenthe on the right. We all saw who the weakest link was; centre-mid or nothing for Ossie.
So where does that leave Coleman? Drenthe supplies (part of) the answer. If you have any sort of pace you can attempt to go on the outside, but only if the fullback 'stays' your (Drenthe's) left and 'offers' you the outside option.
But if you are predominately left-footed on the right, you have the option to cut in to the space between the CB and the FB to shoot, cross or pass.
Another benefit of being left-footed on the right is when, as happens a lot, you have your back to the goal, the ball played in to your ' good ' left foot can be laid off infield on your right, not ping out for a throw if you don't control it with your right foot. I know it takes a bit of mental visualisation, but it is true.
Pienaar had a good right foot and an average left and it did him no harm being on the left. Same with Coleman; he has a semi-decent left peg and he DID like to shoot and, if the inside is blocked off, he can turn away towards the sideline and knock it back to Baines or play the give-and-go. It's all about options.
There is alway the option for the two of them to, once the opposition fullbacks have settled into the game and therefore comfort zone, swap over and mess with their heads. It gives us pace out wide and a certain unpredictabilty.
When the ball is played in from say the left, the incoming right-footer should by then have come in to the old inside-right position, and is (should be) able to get his foot around it goalward.
And no, I don't need reminding about Seamus's debut on the left ? that was then and this is now; different circumstances... chalk and cheese... especially if Anichebe, Osman, Bily or McFadden are the other choices.
Derek Thomas, Posted 24/10/2011 at 09:45:32
Comments
Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer
Didn't ever used to think Coleman's crossing was ever that bad, remember the two balls he put in on his league debut against Spurs?
My concern with him is his lack of confidence to get to the byline any more. He seems to have loast that yard of pace or perhaps is just playing too conservatively, always looking inside or backwards when the ball is played to him.
My concern with him is his lack of confidence to get to the byline any more. He seems to have loast that yard of pace or perhaps is just playing too conservatively, always looking inside or backwards when the ball is played to him.
Whats the point of putting a RB turned RW on the LW? Would be stupid and when it didnt work Moyes would be slagged off for playing a RB as an attacking left winger. In my opinion we have the perfect player in Gueye! Left footed, great delivery, good pace and an eye for goal. Not sure why Moyes doesn't play him, hopefully we will see him on Wednesday and he can push his way into the team.
I know exactly how it feels and the benefits of being on an opposite flank to which foot you use. I've played most my life as a left sided (left wing back/left winger) but I'm right footed.
The only negative I ever came across was when I found myself down the opposite end, I'd have to turn 180 if I wanted to cross the ball in! But the advantage of cutting in and shooting is a definite plus!
Ofcourse these guys are professionals and I started way too late to be of any true knowledge but Royston's ability to play either side is great for us. I did question a few moves he made on the weekend though when he "was" in a position on the left up front, and able to cross, but chose not to.
I was yelling at the tv "cross cross" but perhaps he didn't see the option, or the player to cross it to and instead played it back or elsewhere. At times I was thinking, wait, which foot is he? As it was quite confusing, but hell he's a great! :)
The only negative I ever came across was when I found myself down the opposite end, I'd have to turn 180 if I wanted to cross the ball in! But the advantage of cutting in and shooting is a definite plus!
Ofcourse these guys are professionals and I started way too late to be of any true knowledge but Royston's ability to play either side is great for us. I did question a few moves he made on the weekend though when he "was" in a position on the left up front, and able to cross, but chose not to.
I was yelling at the tv "cross cross" but perhaps he didn't see the option, or the player to cross it to and instead played it back or elsewhere. At times I was thinking, wait, which foot is he? As it was quite confusing, but hell he's a great! :)
Is your middle name Mourinho? Do they call you the einstein of football where you live? Because no one would ever of thought of that. Have you heard of that new technique called the wall-pass when an opposition player is in front of you, you play the ball diagnally, make a run and get a return pass stright away cutting out the opposing man, just like passing a ball against the wall!!!! AMAZING!!!
Do you really think David Moyes and his qualified to the hilt coaching staff and all the avid footy fans on here don't know the pro's and con's of playing a left footer on the right and vice versa. Give us a break mate.
If you know anything about footy you'll know colemans left foot is only good for standing on! He's more one footed than heather mills, any good defender will show him on his left side. The truth is the quality of player in the squad has gone right down, Landon Donovan was well better than coleman and he's not that great. Enough of the square pegs in round holes let's find our best 11 that can create chances and defend and stick with it, let;s gets some continuity and a pattern of play, everything we do is hit and miss at the minute we need to identify are strengths and play to them. The luck we got against Fulham wont happen every week!
Do you really think David Moyes and his qualified to the hilt coaching staff and all the avid footy fans on here don't know the pro's and con's of playing a left footer on the right and vice versa. Give us a break mate.
If you know anything about footy you'll know colemans left foot is only good for standing on! He's more one footed than heather mills, any good defender will show him on his left side. The truth is the quality of player in the squad has gone right down, Landon Donovan was well better than coleman and he's not that great. Enough of the square pegs in round holes let's find our best 11 that can create chances and defend and stick with it, let;s gets some continuity and a pattern of play, everything we do is hit and miss at the minute we need to identify are strengths and play to them. The luck we got against Fulham wont happen every week!
So you are advocating playIng a man in the wrong position... hmmmm, how times have changed.
Also the left foot/right wing ? right foot/left wing issue can be brilliantly shown up by one player ? Damien Duff, brilliant player in his time but when he is coming at you down the right wing, shown him the outside and he is knackered, he will always try and cut in.
Better yet, let's put a left-sided winger on the left wing... I know! madness isn't it?
Also the left foot/right wing ? right foot/left wing issue can be brilliantly shown up by one player ? Damien Duff, brilliant player in his time but when he is coming at you down the right wing, shown him the outside and he is knackered, he will always try and cut in.
Better yet, let's put a left-sided winger on the left wing... I know! madness isn't it?
i am a big fan Seamus. Always have been. I think the boy was born to be a wing-back but not many use those anymore.
If he can improve defensively he will be a great attacking full-back.
I wouldn't be too hard on him this season. Almost all young players have a dip in form in their 2nd/3rd season. Even Giggs did and he was playing for the Champions of England. He still is.
If he can improve defensively he will be a great attacking full-back.
I wouldn't be too hard on him this season. Almost all young players have a dip in form in their 2nd/3rd season. Even Giggs did and he was playing for the Champions of England. He still is.
How about Barkley on the left? Let's face it moyes will never play him in the hole because... Errrr... It makes too much sense, so stick him on the left he is too footed with great vision, any fullback will tell you a player that can go both ways is their worst nightmare, plus from what I have seen of Barkley he looks like the only player in our squad that can play that killer pass.
Agree with the last post. I just think he's going through one of those patches all players go through.
Tim Cahill hasn't scored since 2010 but I seem to be in the minority calling for him to be dropped to the bench. I would play Drenthe on the right, Gueye on the left, with either Denis or Saha partnering Vellios.
Tim Cahill hasn't scored since 2010 but I seem to be in the minority calling for him to be dropped to the bench. I would play Drenthe on the right, Gueye on the left, with either Denis or Saha partnering Vellios.
I know this will sound pretty old fashioned, but... should anyone earning £20k per week plus not be equally adept with either foot. I find the talk of left- and right-sided players utterly bewildering. I was a shite player but not because I couldn't kick the ball competently with either foot. This should be sorted out a Finch Farm.
Seamus has had the odd spell on the left wing and not looked at all effective. I can't see this one.
One journo considered that Moyes would be far from satisfied with Drenthe`s defensive weakness and would be working hard with him during the coming week. I suppose the style we play allows little scope for `free spirited` performers and the manager may well go for a more conservative line-up against the Mancs!
Many players with only ''one foot'' have become great. How about Silva at City and Old Norm (bites yer legs) Hunter of the great Leeds side? Their left feet make up for any deficiency in their right. Only if opposition players force them to their ''wrong feet'' do they become vulnerable and that happens very seldom with great players.
Walcott has great speed and is all right foot but his crossing his very poor. However, he gets in the England team ? go figure.
Drenthe has a great left foot and is a handful cutting in from the left but he won't do that in every match so he has to be able to make the switch to the other flank and be just as effective. Moyes has to find a system that utilises his talent to the best effect and ensure the others in midfield put in their shift in every game. Coleman is a 100% player and should be on the right or right back.
I would sooner have my one-legged, one-eyed grandmother at right back than Hibbert but Moyes won't give her a trial. Hopefully the right formula comes around sooner than later.
Walcott has great speed and is all right foot but his crossing his very poor. However, he gets in the England team ? go figure.
Drenthe has a great left foot and is a handful cutting in from the left but he won't do that in every match so he has to be able to make the switch to the other flank and be just as effective. Moyes has to find a system that utilises his talent to the best effect and ensure the others in midfield put in their shift in every game. Coleman is a 100% player and should be on the right or right back.
I would sooner have my one-legged, one-eyed grandmother at right back than Hibbert but Moyes won't give her a trial. Hopefully the right formula comes around sooner than later.
Thats the firsrt time I've seen David Silva in the same sentence as Norman Hunter!
Coleman is headless but full of energy. He may develop a footy brain but at the moment he represents a threat, albeit limited, because of his energy and stamina.
Interesting point about Drenthe chosing not to cross the ball. The main reason for this is that good teams don't do this very often. They prefer to pass it across (rather than the traditional high-ball cross) or more often will look to pass and play it out of the corners. Drenthe has been trained to play this way.
Coleman is headless but full of energy. He may develop a footy brain but at the moment he represents a threat, albeit limited, because of his energy and stamina.
Interesting point about Drenthe chosing not to cross the ball. The main reason for this is that good teams don't do this very often. They prefer to pass it across (rather than the traditional high-ball cross) or more often will look to pass and play it out of the corners. Drenthe has been trained to play this way.
John Malone #5 i did mention the 'old fashioned ' wall pass,if you re read, only I called it by it's more modern name of ' give and go ' - I would take a guess at your middle names being Blinkered smart-arse.
Tony J #6 This is not playing players in the wrong position, Moyes has been doing it for years, but give it it's full title - Continually in the face of all the evidence playing ( say Neville ) in midfield when he just doesn't cut it. same for Osman on the wing.
This is trying something new and different. How far do you want to go back. John Hurst was a shit centre forward, move him to centreback. Pickering. Malcolm Mc Donald fullback to Centre forward, Sutton, Ray Kennedy.
Start Drenthe and Coleman L & R then, swop them, move them about, vary it up, don't let the defenders get comfortable, go forward - fuck it, call a spade a spade PLAY FOOTBALL, ATTACK
Tony J #6 This is not playing players in the wrong position, Moyes has been doing it for years, but give it it's full title - Continually in the face of all the evidence playing ( say Neville ) in midfield when he just doesn't cut it. same for Osman on the wing.
This is trying something new and different. How far do you want to go back. John Hurst was a shit centre forward, move him to centreback. Pickering. Malcolm Mc Donald fullback to Centre forward, Sutton, Ray Kennedy.
Start Drenthe and Coleman L & R then, swop them, move them about, vary it up, don't let the defenders get comfortable, go forward - fuck it, call a spade a spade PLAY FOOTBALL, ATTACK
No would not work. Coleman is so one-footed he would be even easier to nullify on the left. Coleman should be RB and cut his teeth there.
Coleman isn't cutting the mustard on the right, never mind putting him on the left!
Bily or Geuye on the left.
Bily or Geuye on the left.
You're right John Ford #14. I watch Barca as often as possible and seldom have I seen any of their players cross from wide out left or right. They are always looking for that killer pass which more often than not leads to a goal. If they put the ball in the air at all it is normally a short chip from inside the box to a player a few yards in front of goal.
Those of you hoping Coleman will be our right back... just curious... have you ever actually watched him play there? It's ugly. He's a ballwatcher who can't mark and is continually caught on the wrong side of his man. He doesn't just need to "improve" defensively, as Lee #7 says. He doesn't even know the basics. And we don't want him learning on the field. He's a wide midfielder or nothing.
At this stage of his career Coleman is limited in his football intelligence and has a one dimensional approach. He's needs to have more to his game than push and run before we can start trying him in different positions.
Hold on a minute, what about all the compaining on here about playing people out of position? Moyes is moaned at for playing people out of position next they will be moaning for not playing people out of position. Unbelievable.
Sean, Moyes played Barkley on the left against QPR and he played really, but we lost and Moyes was slagged off for playing him out of position, that might have put him off the idea, the "supporters have only got themselves to blame.
Cant agree with the post, if you have a player with a one sided strength then use it, we have Gueye and Drenthe who can play on that side if need be sub Coleman but dont put him on his weak side.
Ian, Barkley only looked dangerous against QPR when he got time to cut inside.
Ian, Barkley only looked dangerous against QPR when he got time to cut inside.
Mike Gaynes - I think that's a bit harsh mate. Of course he has made howlers but so do experienced,international defenders.
Give the lad time. I remember Stuart Pearce ball watching a few times and he turned out all right.
In fact,Pearce admits in his book that Germanys equaliser in the Euro 96 semi was down to him ball watching. And Pearce was about 34yrs old at the time.
I believe Seamus will turn out just fine. Of course it's all about opinions though.
Give the lad time. I remember Stuart Pearce ball watching a few times and he turned out all right.
In fact,Pearce admits in his book that Germanys equaliser in the Euro 96 semi was down to him ball watching. And Pearce was about 34yrs old at the time.
I believe Seamus will turn out just fine. Of course it's all about opinions though.
To maximise both wide positions, it is best to cross the ball than to cut inside and have a shot, which often is done at an angle on goal. A cross always makes it more difficult for defenders to deal with. And if and when cleared provides, often not, "'second ball '' for incoming players coming around the penalty area.
How can these professionals not use both feet!?
I think Ian Tunstead has caught you red handed Derek.
You`ve been one of the biggest critics of Moyes for playing people out of position . .now you`re advocating it
You`ve been one of the biggest critics of Moyes for playing people out of position . .now you`re advocating it
Lee Courtliff... sure, all defenders are guilty of mistakes... Jags and Baines have both been caught ballwatching this year. But I watched Coleman several times when he was out on loan and playing fullback, including a playoff game, and I really believe he either doesn't know the fundamentals of the position or just doesn't have the instincts for it. Even defending on corners, he doesn't get proper marking position.
And I believe that's why Moyes, a former defender himself, has hardly ever played Coleman at fullback despite his obvious speed and tackling ability. Experienced Prem forwards would take advantage of his poor positioning all day long.
And I believe that's why Moyes, a former defender himself, has hardly ever played Coleman at fullback despite his obvious speed and tackling ability. Experienced Prem forwards would take advantage of his poor positioning all day long.
Fair point about Moyes Mike. I've only seen Seamus play right-back a few times and sure he made mistakes.
I actually thought he did well in the play-off final for Blackpool. Let us just see how he develops. A long way to go in his career.
I actually thought he did well in the play-off final for Blackpool. Let us just see how he develops. A long way to go in his career.
Ian and Dave Re out of position; See my comment #15 to Tony J #6.
I poo poo to your collective poo poo-ing.
Any way It was only a thought. It may be too early but as yet Drethe seems a more direct type of player than Pienaar was and may not be suited to playing the close inter passing game that those two had going.
I must admit that my choice of Coleman is somewhat based on his form last season, as he seems to be suffering with a bad dose of 2nd season syndrome.
I don't see him as a Fullback more as a wingback. So we have 2 why not use them as such. But 3 at the back ( which can become 5 ) it too avant garde for Moyes, or many others for that matter.
Having already dismissed Anichebe, Bily, Osman and McFadden, who does it leave us with, Gueye, Barkley, Baxter.
There remains on our left a Pienaar shaped hole, which is also causing Baines form to dip as they complimented each other. Odd games and odd wonder goals not withstanding we are effectively playing with 10 men.
It will be interesting to see:
a) The line-up vs Chelsea;
b) The performance and result, bearing in mind what team attitude they put out.
c) If we wipe the floor with a decent Chelsea team if the same basic 11+ get a run vs the Mancs.
d) If the "They've got more money than us" mindset kicks in...
I poo poo to your collective poo poo-ing.
Any way It was only a thought. It may be too early but as yet Drethe seems a more direct type of player than Pienaar was and may not be suited to playing the close inter passing game that those two had going.
I must admit that my choice of Coleman is somewhat based on his form last season, as he seems to be suffering with a bad dose of 2nd season syndrome.
I don't see him as a Fullback more as a wingback. So we have 2 why not use them as such. But 3 at the back ( which can become 5 ) it too avant garde for Moyes, or many others for that matter.
Having already dismissed Anichebe, Bily, Osman and McFadden, who does it leave us with, Gueye, Barkley, Baxter.
There remains on our left a Pienaar shaped hole, which is also causing Baines form to dip as they complimented each other. Odd games and odd wonder goals not withstanding we are effectively playing with 10 men.
It will be interesting to see:
a) The line-up vs Chelsea;
b) The performance and result, bearing in mind what team attitude they put out.
c) If we wipe the floor with a decent Chelsea team if the same basic 11+ get a run vs the Mancs.
d) If the "They've got more money than us" mindset kicks in...
Add Your Comments
In order to post a comment to the MailBag, you need to be logged in as a registered user of the site.
Or Sign up as a ToffeeWeb Member — it's free, takes just a few minutes and will allow you to post your comments on articles and MailBag submissions across the site.
© ToffeeWeb
-sm.jpg)
-sm.jpg)
-sm.jpg)
1 Posted 24/10/2011 at 16:17:52
Report abuse
Coleman's main weakness is his crossing, playing him on the left, would mean he doesn't have to worry about that.
Also cutting in field provides you with more options, which may improve him as a player.