Season 2011-12
The Mail Bag
Going down the wrong rabbit hole
63 Comments: Having read the numerous comments about David Moyes, I feel I must respond.
Do I agree with everything DM does? No... But what irks me is our fans are attacking the wrong man; we are in danger of following LFC across the park. They blamed all and sundry for their slight fall from grace ? from Moores, Parry, the two Yanks ? and yet they couldn't see the large elephant in the room, namely Benitez; he is why they are no longer top 4. Everton fans I used to think were smarter, sadly recently that is not the case.
Like them across the park, most are not seeing the elephant in the room, Bill Kenwright, so rather than take on the task of getting rid of a "beloved blue" they are choosing the easier task of chasing Moyes.
Put yourself in David Moyes shoes for a minute, he came in an unknown to try and reignite a sleeping giant, he had a plan to build it up slowly due to the lack of finances and made good progress. Two years in, our Chairman sells our best academy player ever for half of the fee he himself suggested, did Moyes get any of that money that season? No!
We qualify for the Champions League ? did Moyes get any money to strengthen? No!
We then go on to bomb the following season down to 17th, so Moyes builds again with solid finishes of 5th, 5th and 6th... did Moyes get significant money to push us on? No!
He then builds a rather good team and what happens then? The club starts to dismantle it: Lescott, Pienaar and Arteta, did Moyes receive any/much of this money? No!
David Moyes to me looks a broken man so I go along with people saying he has lost some of his passion etc, but in the same situation wouldn't you? If you put 10 years work into anything you do and see it all wrecked, would any of you be happy?
So, I ask Evertonians to quit taking the coward's way and criticising the easy option, look around you the elephant is still in the room.
The Premier League has brought a wealth of money into the game, you need to ask why Everton have appeared to receive none of it, how and why is it since Bill Kenwright came in have we not had a bean to spend, despite selling nearly all our best players and all the club's assets?
Something is going on and money is going astray... look on page 12 of the accounts where it says Accountant Comments, those comments are probably why we are in the mess we are in now.
To all the seals who clapped Kenwright at the Villa game, you are the reason we are in the bottom half of the table.
Thomas Williams, Posted 11/12/2011 at 04:07:02
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Yeah look at the mess Liverpool are in since getting rid of the Americans and Hodgson - that's a real trap to avoid that is.
If he wants to lie like he has about how we never had to sell Arteta and then constantly whine about money and lack of quality then he deseves the stick in my eyes.
Mark are you being sarcastic? They were in a mess until they got rid of Hicks and Gillett and Benitez. The new owners are now putting money into the side, granted, most of it from the Torres money but Aston Villa made a lot of money from selling Milner, Young and Downing but havnt re-invested it all back into the club.
Liverpool will be back in a mess again if they dont get CL football soon, otherwise their best players wll want out and Liverpool will not be able to pay for the top players. Same goes for Spurs.
Liverpool will be back in a mess again if they dont get CL football soon, otherwise their best players wll want out and Liverpool will not be able to pay for the top players. Same goes for Spurs.
He won't be able to fill us with this defeatist attitude we are served before most games leading up to these next two home games against teams who can only dream of paying £70k a week to players and having a first eleven full of experienced internationals.
It's both BK & Moyes. BK doesn't send a team out, all falls out with strikers, he just balls up the off-pitch stuff. It is most important to get Moyes out first and start winning, then BK.
Similiar to my sentiments; I ask myself daily, "how have we managed to get in this mess?"
The decline started before Moyes, probably round about the start of the Premier League when we failed to foresee the future and its financial opportunities. Sadly, we have missed the boat and can only huff and puff without any conviction for the future.
This season looks bleak and the coming years, unless something dramatic happens moneywise, will simply continue our downward spiral. I like Kenwright as a person but have had enough of his showbiz baloney; he is enthusiastic and well meaning but just cannot deliver. The next two home games could decide our season as the alarm bells continue to fall on deaf ears.
The decline started before Moyes, probably round about the start of the Premier League when we failed to foresee the future and its financial opportunities. Sadly, we have missed the boat and can only huff and puff without any conviction for the future.
This season looks bleak and the coming years, unless something dramatic happens moneywise, will simply continue our downward spiral. I like Kenwright as a person but have had enough of his showbiz baloney; he is enthusiastic and well meaning but just cannot deliver. The next two home games could decide our season as the alarm bells continue to fall on deaf ears.
Moyes wasn't given money to strengthen when we finished fourth?
Then how did he sign:
- Simon Davies
- Per Kroldrup
- Mikel Arteta
- Phil Neville
- Matteo Ferrari
- Nuno Valente
Not all big-money transfers, but I doubt their wages were insignificant!
Then how did he sign:
- Simon Davies
- Per Kroldrup
- Mikel Arteta
- Phil Neville
- Matteo Ferrari
- Nuno Valente
Not all big-money transfers, but I doubt their wages were insignificant!
Thomas, good article. As I have written on here before, I can almost here the amazed, disbelieving laughter from here as Kenwright says "Fuck me, they have swallowed it! They're going after Moyes! We're in the clear Jon!"
We can sack Moyes but nothing will change at Everton until Kenwright goes.
All that said, I do really worry that Moyes has lost it. There is little doubt that our play is stagnant and unimaginative, our ball-out wide-then-lumped-high-into-the-box one dimensional attacking style, never on the ground and never through the middle, our defending of corners, etc
Where is the inspiration to drag us back to winning ways?
We can sack Moyes but nothing will change at Everton until Kenwright goes.
All that said, I do really worry that Moyes has lost it. There is little doubt that our play is stagnant and unimaginative, our ball-out wide-then-lumped-high-into-the-box one dimensional attacking style, never on the ground and never through the middle, our defending of corners, etc
Where is the inspiration to drag us back to winning ways?
Paul,
"It is most important to get Moyes out first and start winning, then BK.' ? That flies in the face of Blue Union strategy which is to (mistakenly in my opinion) back Moyes and thus get most fans on board... or at least not get them really pissed off that they want the manager gone as well.
We're in a mess, but a couple of wins and we're up to 8th, which is our new benchmark for "success". That modest goal should be sufficient, or so we are told... We can't expect anything better, apparently, as underlined by the opposition to Blue Union and the continued support of David Moyes.
"It is most important to get Moyes out first and start winning, then BK.' ? That flies in the face of Blue Union strategy which is to (mistakenly in my opinion) back Moyes and thus get most fans on board... or at least not get them really pissed off that they want the manager gone as well.
We're in a mess, but a couple of wins and we're up to 8th, which is our new benchmark for "success". That modest goal should be sufficient, or so we are told... We can't expect anything better, apparently, as underlined by the opposition to Blue Union and the continued support of David Moyes.
Ian, Hicks and Gillette spent £300 million on players in their ownership, just about the level of their debt.
It was Benitez wasting that £300 million that got them into the mess. How I wish he was still there!
It was Benitez wasting that £300 million that got them into the mess. How I wish he was still there!
Moyes and his brand of anti football are as much the problem as kenwright.
Thanks Thomas for a rare ray of sunshine on here that makes everything so clear now.
How did I not think of it. It's so clear now. Its Kenshite Iwho picks the team, plays players out of position, cannot react creatively as a game unfolds, makes shitty shitty subs, picks Osman, picks Cahill, picks Saha, plays down our chances before a ball is even kicked, and gordon bennett how did I not think of this before, it's Kenshite who sets the team up, pulls 10 men back on corners, and kenshite who always always always puts defence first, who was the tactical nous behind yesterday's abject performance and last Sunday's shameful shite, and, needless to say, it was Kenshite (how did I not see this) who replaced Saha with Distin, and Kenshite who was satisfied with a 1-0 defeat.
It's all down to Kenshite and no sponds right? Poor old carrot-head, I'm putting myself in his shoes as I write, poor carrot-head, 65K week-after-week, no matter what he does on match-days. Ah Bless, he looks a little sad on the touchline. Poor old carrot-head, having to take a job (that was a seismic leap up for him and his pay packet) with us when we have those impish reds over the park.
This is a rare road to Damascus post for me. From the start Moyes has had the odds stacked against him and he is worth every pound that we put in his pocket.
How did I not think of it. It's so clear now. Its Kenshite Iwho picks the team, plays players out of position, cannot react creatively as a game unfolds, makes shitty shitty subs, picks Osman, picks Cahill, picks Saha, plays down our chances before a ball is even kicked, and gordon bennett how did I not think of this before, it's Kenshite who sets the team up, pulls 10 men back on corners, and kenshite who always always always puts defence first, who was the tactical nous behind yesterday's abject performance and last Sunday's shameful shite, and, needless to say, it was Kenshite (how did I not see this) who replaced Saha with Distin, and Kenshite who was satisfied with a 1-0 defeat.
It's all down to Kenshite and no sponds right? Poor old carrot-head, I'm putting myself in his shoes as I write, poor carrot-head, 65K week-after-week, no matter what he does on match-days. Ah Bless, he looks a little sad on the touchline. Poor old carrot-head, having to take a job (that was a seismic leap up for him and his pay packet) with us when we have those impish reds over the park.
This is a rare road to Damascus post for me. From the start Moyes has had the odds stacked against him and he is worth every pound that we put in his pocket.
Yes I was being sarcastic. I am sick of people saying that a real Everton supporter sticks by manager no matter how shit the results are. We, as paying supporters, deserve better. Moyes should be sacked. Liverpool didn't let the rot go nearly as deep with Benitez, after he started stalling. They have utterly revived themselves.
Why we cannot do the same is utterly beyond me.
Why we cannot do the same is utterly beyond me.
Martin O'Neill done today in one game what David Moyes has only achieved 3 times in 11 seasons (or 68 games) i.e he managed to motivate a team to come back from a half-time defict and actually win a game.
Kenwright is the obvious elephant but it's the mahout that sanctions the players who are sold, picks the team, sets the tactics, makes the substitutions etc.
I really like Moyes, believe me, but he is losing it big style in my opinion. He is retrenching into an already negative, defeatist attitude and it's showing on the pitch.
I really like Moyes, believe me, but he is losing it big style in my opinion. He is retrenching into an already negative, defeatist attitude and it's showing on the pitch.
Thomas, how can you say Moyes hasn't had any money?
Rooney was sold 31/8/04 for a reported £10m upfront and another £10m in the summer. That's £20m within a year. Moyes spent:
Beattie £6.5m
Arteta £3m
Davies £3.5m
Kroldrup £5m
Neville £3.5m
Valente £1.5m
van der Meyde £1.8m
That makes a total spent of £24.8m. The only other player sold in that time was Gravesen for £2.5m.
Lescott was sold 25/8/09 for £24m. Straight away Moyes spent:
Bilyaletdinov £9m
Distin £5m
Heitinga £6.5m
That makes a total spend of £20.5m
In other words, Moyes has spent virtually every penny he has been entitled to. Would you rather BK borrowed £m's more to finance Moyes and get Everton into debt?
Oh, he has and Moyes has spent that as well! How do you think Yakubu and Fellaini were purchased for a combined £25m, as well as another £13m that was set aside for Manuel Fernandes if he agreed to join us.
How many of those players mentioned above have been successes? ONE - Arteta. TWO have been ok - Neville and Distin. The rest have probably been failures with the exception of Fellaini who is yet to be decided.
Moyes has simply wasted money he has had, and BK is stupid by borrowing money we didn't have.
Rooney was sold 31/8/04 for a reported £10m upfront and another £10m in the summer. That's £20m within a year. Moyes spent:
Beattie £6.5m
Arteta £3m
Davies £3.5m
Kroldrup £5m
Neville £3.5m
Valente £1.5m
van der Meyde £1.8m
That makes a total spent of £24.8m. The only other player sold in that time was Gravesen for £2.5m.
Lescott was sold 25/8/09 for £24m. Straight away Moyes spent:
Bilyaletdinov £9m
Distin £5m
Heitinga £6.5m
That makes a total spend of £20.5m
In other words, Moyes has spent virtually every penny he has been entitled to. Would you rather BK borrowed £m's more to finance Moyes and get Everton into debt?
Oh, he has and Moyes has spent that as well! How do you think Yakubu and Fellaini were purchased for a combined £25m, as well as another £13m that was set aside for Manuel Fernandes if he agreed to join us.
How many of those players mentioned above have been successes? ONE - Arteta. TWO have been ok - Neville and Distin. The rest have probably been failures with the exception of Fellaini who is yet to be decided.
Moyes has simply wasted money he has had, and BK is stupid by borrowing money we didn't have.
Tony #14 - Moyes in his defence was famous once for inspiring comebacks - I think it was 7 in his first full season. Indeed we have had 3 already this season - but it's increasingly difficult to come from behind when we've sold so many strikers. But I do agree, that attitude and substitutions will have a big part to play and I agree that Moyes is lacking in positivity.
Ray - I was talking about games where we have been getting beat at half time - and in 68 attempts Moyes has only managed to win three. Martin O'Neill managed a third of that total in his first game at Sunderland.
And had passion on the touch-line Tony and a clear sense, on the basis of 100 mins, of how to work with players he has had under his wing for a week.
Are you serious with this article? Moyes has spent a fuckin fortune on bollox players, the like of which are listed above, particularly Krøldrup and Bily though. Felli was waaaay too expensive as well.
How can you make no mention of these hefty signings in your piece? Frankly, it makes the whole thing completely ridiculous and devoid of any credibility.
How can you make no mention of these hefty signings in your piece? Frankly, it makes the whole thing completely ridiculous and devoid of any credibility.
My biggest gripe is Moyes' repeated failure to beat any of the so-called Sky 4 away from home. In 42 attempts his tactics of playing a rigid 4-4-1-1 or on some occasions 4-5-1-0 has only succeded in the ocassional dour draw. Correct me if wrong but the following 11 season his record stands as the following
Arsenal: P11 W0 D1 L10
Man Utd P10 W0 D2 L8
Liverpool P10 W0 D3 L7
Chelsea P11 W0 D3 L8
Compare this with other premiership regulars Aston Villa, Fulham and Blackburn.
Arsenal: P11 W0 D1 L10
Man Utd P10 W0 D2 L8
Liverpool P10 W0 D3 L7
Chelsea P11 W0 D3 L8
Compare this with other premiership regulars Aston Villa, Fulham and Blackburn.
Anyone else cringe when the read £10m upfront and £10m in the summer for Rooney ??
@20 your post is devoid of credibility. Fergie has wasted many times more money than Moyes. Does that also make him a bad manager? Veron at £27M is perhaps the worst.
Mark (22) I remember when we sold Rooney (and I had a lot of time on my hands!). I actually calculated how much Rooney was worth, e.g. 10-15 year career, international caps, honours, titles, merchandise, endorsements, everything!
I wrote all these figures down according to if Rooney had a successful career as anticipated, and sent it to BK.
The total sum was £70m. Doesn't look so stupid now does it?
I even suggested to BK that he sold for £50m as £70m was slightly unrealistic for a 18-year-old.
I wrote all these figures down according to if Rooney had a successful career as anticipated, and sent it to BK.
The total sum was £70m. Doesn't look so stupid now does it?
I even suggested to BK that he sold for £50m as £70m was slightly unrealistic for a 18-year-old.
I told you why, Mark, we don't have the money to compete with the top 6. We don't even have the money to compete with the rest of the league.
Tony, O'Neil had his chance with Villa and couldn't out do Moyes. I don't care what O'Niell did in one game, I care what he does after 38 games.
Tony, O'Neil had his chance with Villa and couldn't out do Moyes. I don't care what O'Niell did in one game, I care what he does after 38 games.
Matthew, when Moyes had some money to spend we did well, we were usually finishing around 5th or 6th but it still wasnt the kind of money the top 4 were spending. Now add Man City to the equation and the fact that we have stopped spending money ? there was only ever one outcome and we are seeing it infont of our eyes.
@ Mark
Yeah it still feels like we were had every which way.
Yeah it still feels like we were had every which way.
Tony 21 compare where those teams finished in the league with Everton; that is the most important stat.
@ Phil Martin
Eh?
What are you on about? How does it not lack credibility? Hes stating that Moyes has not had money, yet has failed to mention the vast sums spent on failures like Bily, Meattie, Kroldrup, Heitinga etc etc etc, the list goes on. Its pretty pointless making a big statement which is blatently untrue - Moyes has had money. He has spent very poorly. He is living off the capture of Tim Cahill and a few 'bargain' loans, which took place years ago.
I have no idea what your bringing up United for either. First of all it isnt anything to do with the article. Secondly, the fact they one of the richest, if not the richest club in the world, permits them to throw the cash about a bit. Fergies had a bit more success in the transfer front than Moyse too, wouldnt you say? Or maybe Hernandez isnt as good as Beattie.
Eh?
What are you on about? How does it not lack credibility? Hes stating that Moyes has not had money, yet has failed to mention the vast sums spent on failures like Bily, Meattie, Kroldrup, Heitinga etc etc etc, the list goes on. Its pretty pointless making a big statement which is blatently untrue - Moyes has had money. He has spent very poorly. He is living off the capture of Tim Cahill and a few 'bargain' loans, which took place years ago.
I have no idea what your bringing up United for either. First of all it isnt anything to do with the article. Secondly, the fact they one of the richest, if not the richest club in the world, permits them to throw the cash about a bit. Fergies had a bit more success in the transfer front than Moyse too, wouldnt you say? Or maybe Hernandez isnt as good as Beattie.
So many people are falling into the trap of thinking that the board's failings and Moyes's failings tactically are inter-linked. This is simply not true.
"Give him money and see how he does!" lots of people shout.
HE'S HAD MONEY!!!
Bilyaletdinov ? £9.5 million
Fellaini ? ?15 million
Krøldrup ? £4 million
Beattie ? £6 million
Heitinga ? £6 million
Yak -? £11.25 million
Andy Johnson ? £9 million.
It's his awful tactics that are his biggest flaw and if we stick with him its not a question of IF, but WHEN we will eventually be relegated.
"Give him money and see how he does!" lots of people shout.
HE'S HAD MONEY!!!
Bilyaletdinov ? £9.5 million
Fellaini ? ?15 million
Krøldrup ? £4 million
Beattie ? £6 million
Heitinga ? £6 million
Yak -? £11.25 million
Andy Johnson ? £9 million.
It's his awful tactics that are his biggest flaw and if we stick with him its not a question of IF, but WHEN we will eventually be relegated.
Thomas
Poor article. You obviously dont watch Everton very often. Kenwright doesnt decide tactics, choose formations and make ridiculous substitutions..
Poor article. You obviously dont watch Everton very often. Kenwright doesnt decide tactics, choose formations and make ridiculous substitutions..
Is right, Thomas.
It's all to easy to blame the manager, but to do so you allow Kenwright off the hook.
I laugh when I see people putting forward names like Lambert, Poyet and Holloway, not because I don't think they are decent managers, but because people I don't understand this notion that they could/would get the current Everton team playing sexy football.
Moyes built a side with a good mixture. Footballers like, Arteta, Osman, Pienaar, Baines, and Saha were brought to the club... but you can't keep finding good footballers for next to nothing. So Moyes did the next best thing ,he complemented these players with grafters, people like Jagielka, Neville, Hibbert who were actually better at doing the ugly things, they are better players without the ball than they are with it. Every good manager looks for such a mix.
David Moyes has had to watch as the team he was trying to build has been ripped apart. The lack of any sort of investment for the past two seasons, has seen our footballers move on and been replaced by loan signings nobody else wants. Our "professionals" have gone the wrong side of 30.
Tim Cahill could never play, but he could combine a terrific leap with perfect timing. he also had the heart of a lion... he still has the heart of a lion, but the timing has gone and the leap is going.
Phil Neville could never play, but he was a born leader and led by example. It's painful to see him being run off his feet by just about everybody he comes up agaisnt these days.
Louis Saha was always a crock, but he was at times majestic, now he's just an ageing crock. I will never knock people like Veillos and young Ross, both have shown potential but they have also been found wanting, they are clearly not ready.
We are attacking with the bluntest of instruments. I don't know which I find the more difficult to understand; the notion that it's the manager and not the the lack of investment that has brought us grinding to a halt... or the notion that there is a Manager out there who is capable of getting people like Neville, Coleman, Hibbert, Cahill, Jagielka, Stracqualursi, etc to play sexy football.
Kenwright may not pick the team, but his inability to back the manager has left us with a choice of the old and the not very good.
I agree 100% with Blue Union, anyone blaiming the manager for the Chairman's shortcomings is going down the wrong rabbit hole.
Moyes Out? Not likely... the reason he enjoys so much support is that most people will look beyond a couple of decisions they don't agree with. Many ? including me ? believe he is the only thing holding this shambles together.
It's all to easy to blame the manager, but to do so you allow Kenwright off the hook.
I laugh when I see people putting forward names like Lambert, Poyet and Holloway, not because I don't think they are decent managers, but because people I don't understand this notion that they could/would get the current Everton team playing sexy football.
Moyes built a side with a good mixture. Footballers like, Arteta, Osman, Pienaar, Baines, and Saha were brought to the club... but you can't keep finding good footballers for next to nothing. So Moyes did the next best thing ,he complemented these players with grafters, people like Jagielka, Neville, Hibbert who were actually better at doing the ugly things, they are better players without the ball than they are with it. Every good manager looks for such a mix.
David Moyes has had to watch as the team he was trying to build has been ripped apart. The lack of any sort of investment for the past two seasons, has seen our footballers move on and been replaced by loan signings nobody else wants. Our "professionals" have gone the wrong side of 30.
Tim Cahill could never play, but he could combine a terrific leap with perfect timing. he also had the heart of a lion... he still has the heart of a lion, but the timing has gone and the leap is going.
Phil Neville could never play, but he was a born leader and led by example. It's painful to see him being run off his feet by just about everybody he comes up agaisnt these days.
Louis Saha was always a crock, but he was at times majestic, now he's just an ageing crock. I will never knock people like Veillos and young Ross, both have shown potential but they have also been found wanting, they are clearly not ready.
We are attacking with the bluntest of instruments. I don't know which I find the more difficult to understand; the notion that it's the manager and not the the lack of investment that has brought us grinding to a halt... or the notion that there is a Manager out there who is capable of getting people like Neville, Coleman, Hibbert, Cahill, Jagielka, Stracqualursi, etc to play sexy football.
Kenwright may not pick the team, but his inability to back the manager has left us with a choice of the old and the not very good.
I agree 100% with Blue Union, anyone blaiming the manager for the Chairman's shortcomings is going down the wrong rabbit hole.
Moyes Out? Not likely... the reason he enjoys so much support is that most people will look beyond a couple of decisions they don't agree with. Many ? including me ? believe he is the only thing holding this shambles together.
To Owen #30, 7 signings above 3 of which are still at the club, in near 10 years these are our biggest signings and yet you say he has spent enough?
Our whole squad cost £55M of which almost half was spent on Bily and Fellaini... doesn't leave much money for the rest does it? £55m for the whole team... Stoke have just spent half of that this summer, Sunderland spent nearly all of that this summer, RS have spent double that in 12 months.
I agree Moyes has lost his spark, my point was so would everybody else in the same situation. I would also like to point out that not only has Moyes lost his spark but more importantly so have the fans, it is like a morgue at home games and the general apathy astounds me. So don't just blame Moyes for losing it, look at yourselves, are you doing enough to inspire the team?
Ian Edwards, I had a season ticket for 32 years before I left and I still watch ALL the games.
Our whole squad cost £55M of which almost half was spent on Bily and Fellaini... doesn't leave much money for the rest does it? £55m for the whole team... Stoke have just spent half of that this summer, Sunderland spent nearly all of that this summer, RS have spent double that in 12 months.
I agree Moyes has lost his spark, my point was so would everybody else in the same situation. I would also like to point out that not only has Moyes lost his spark but more importantly so have the fans, it is like a morgue at home games and the general apathy astounds me. So don't just blame Moyes for losing it, look at yourselves, are you doing enough to inspire the team?
Ian Edwards, I had a season ticket for 32 years before I left and I still watch ALL the games.
Ian #31 ? He does when he causes the manager and squad to be totally drained of any enthusiasm and reduces the Goodison roar to a whimper.
I am not saying we don't need a change of manager but people need to stop using Moyes as the scapegoat and look at the real villain of the peace.
Kenwright has systematcally reduced Everton Football Club to a rag-tag outfit that is run like a circus.
I am not saying we don't need a change of manager but people need to stop using Moyes as the scapegoat and look at the real villain of the peace.
Kenwright has systematcally reduced Everton Football Club to a rag-tag outfit that is run like a circus.
I also take issue with this article stating that calling for Moyes to go is a 'cowards way out'. Its entirely the opposite. For years I have admired David Moyes as a coach and motivator; however, nothing lasts forever. Recognising when something is going stale or no longer working and taking action isnt cowardly. It makes sense.
Cowardly is employing a burned out manager to run Everton because *its safer*
Cowardly is employing a burned out manager to run Everton because *its safer*
David Moyes's net spend since becoming manager is ?£7,850,000 ? yes, that's right ? nearly £8M more has come in than gone out.
So, to those who have said he has had money, hang your heads in shame; we are Everton FC not some lower Prem or Championship club.
47 players have been bought by Moyes: 14 were free, 3 less than £500k, 13 less than £2m, 9 between £2-5M; that leaves just 8 players over £5M, 8 in 10 years!! Yes, lads loads of money he's had hasn't he?
Truly shocking figures for a club of Everton's standing and yet people blame the manager, BK did exactly the same to Walter Smith as well, sold all his creative and best players and we ended up watching dire football again. Yes, I remember the 7 centre-halves... it is happening again.
So, to those who have said he has had money, hang your heads in shame; we are Everton FC not some lower Prem or Championship club.
47 players have been bought by Moyes: 14 were free, 3 less than £500k, 13 less than £2m, 9 between £2-5M; that leaves just 8 players over £5M, 8 in 10 years!! Yes, lads loads of money he's had hasn't he?
Truly shocking figures for a club of Everton's standing and yet people blame the manager, BK did exactly the same to Walter Smith as well, sold all his creative and best players and we ended up watching dire football again. Yes, I remember the 7 centre-halves... it is happening again.
Lets face it if we had money to spend .... who would jump at the chance to play for us when we are boring, negative, and have a manager who thinks we are going into battle against the big guns armed with a knife! Maybe i cry out for a return to the 80's football but ffs you dont show the opposition respect before a ball is kicked! Only after a game do u praise an opposition team if u get beat. The team looks like they are scared... from what i ask? Are the midfielders frightened of shooting from outside the area? Why do we only throw caution to the wind when we are losing? These are the many questions that have gone unanswered for far too long and maybe some of the players can answer it.
Kenwright and Moyes go hand in hand they are a double act - unfortunately the double act is the chucklebrothers !!
They are a match made in heaven for each other.Kenwright pays Moyes a kings ransom for playing boring negative dross each week and Moyes keeps his mouth shut and tells us Bill Kenwright is the best chairman you can have.
Whats the chucklebrothers catch phrase that right you can imagine them both in the boardroom 'To me to you'.
They are a match made in heaven for each other.Kenwright pays Moyes a kings ransom for playing boring negative dross each week and Moyes keeps his mouth shut and tells us Bill Kenwright is the best chairman you can have.
Whats the chucklebrothers catch phrase that right you can imagine them both in the boardroom 'To me to you'.
What a load of nonsense. As Paul Ferry says, he's getting £65k a week to do absolutely nothing. He knows Kenwright will never sack him, the players know, no matter how shite they are, they will always get played.
We have Cahill who hasn't scored in nearly a year, who is always named on the teamsheet first. We have Saha, a striker who puts no effort in, being played every game. On Match of the Day, they even said that we had 7 defenders on the ptich and still managed to concede a stupid goal.
Fellaini is meant to be a defensive midfielder yet he made the same mistake as he did against Manchester City, letting them pass it about. What was Jags doing defending like a kid in the playground watching the ball gormlessly go to Van Persie> Van Persie is Arsenal's only goal threat and still, with 7 defenders of the pitch, he scores.
And to top it all off, Moyes is happy with defeat, well I'm sure the Everton fans who spent around £75 to go to the game will be pleased to know that. He in my opinion is a very very devious man who always blames everyone except himself. He is the idiot who let Yakubu and Beckford leave without replacements. Everton are a bigger club than both Blackburn and Leicester. I'm sure neither player wanted to leave.
The fact he wants Rodwell to become a centre-back just shows his mentality. The Blue Union numpties simply forget that most fans that are anti-Kenwright are also anti-Moyes. David Moyes is in Rafa's situation, fans have become sick of the same old tactics week-in, week-out.
His tactics often cause us to be last on MotD and we're never ever on Sky. Everybody knows that we're awful to watch, we are incapable of playing the ball forward on the floor, we're incapable of things most Sunday League players have the ablity to do.
We have Cahill who hasn't scored in nearly a year, who is always named on the teamsheet first. We have Saha, a striker who puts no effort in, being played every game. On Match of the Day, they even said that we had 7 defenders on the ptich and still managed to concede a stupid goal.
Fellaini is meant to be a defensive midfielder yet he made the same mistake as he did against Manchester City, letting them pass it about. What was Jags doing defending like a kid in the playground watching the ball gormlessly go to Van Persie> Van Persie is Arsenal's only goal threat and still, with 7 defenders of the pitch, he scores.
And to top it all off, Moyes is happy with defeat, well I'm sure the Everton fans who spent around £75 to go to the game will be pleased to know that. He in my opinion is a very very devious man who always blames everyone except himself. He is the idiot who let Yakubu and Beckford leave without replacements. Everton are a bigger club than both Blackburn and Leicester. I'm sure neither player wanted to leave.
The fact he wants Rodwell to become a centre-back just shows his mentality. The Blue Union numpties simply forget that most fans that are anti-Kenwright are also anti-Moyes. David Moyes is in Rafa's situation, fans have become sick of the same old tactics week-in, week-out.
His tactics often cause us to be last on MotD and we're never ever on Sky. Everybody knows that we're awful to watch, we are incapable of playing the ball forward on the floor, we're incapable of things most Sunday League players have the ablity to do.
Dave @ 32 ? Moyes hasn't had to stand by and watch as his team has been dismantled. If he knows the rug's being pulled from under his feet by BK & Co, then he should grow a pair of bollocks & say so, or he has the option to walk. Apparently he could walk into a job just about anywhere. As so many others have already posted, it's not the chairman controlling what's happening on the pitch.
Moyes has not a lot to do with the lack of money at the club, that is mostly kenwrights fault. Moyes has been guilty of getting rid of perfectly good players like yakubu for virtually nothing, and yobo will probably leave on a free too, but all managers make mistakes, Kenwright needs to take the blame for a lack of a workable business plan.
That said, we still have a fairly significant wage budget; we are not premiership paupers. We also have a fair number of youth players with promise.
Our squad and financial situation has never been bad enough to warrant playing 7 defenders in an outfield 10. Its never been bad enough to warrant playing so many players out of position on such a consistent basis. Those are Moyes decisions, not ones forced upon him.
Some might say the likes of Barkley are "clearly not ready", I happen to disagree. Barkley gave away 1 penalty and has been in the doghouse ever since. Jags was guilty of so many failures earlier in the season, yet he was given a suitable run to sort it out.
Whats wrong with giving Barkley and others lots of game time to get them up to speed? They're not going to automatically become ready by sitting in the reserves. They need games!
You can argue about who is at fault for breaking the will of david moyes, but I dont think anyone can argue that he is a spent force. Time to try someone new with a bit of energy and desire.
That said, we still have a fairly significant wage budget; we are not premiership paupers. We also have a fair number of youth players with promise.
Our squad and financial situation has never been bad enough to warrant playing 7 defenders in an outfield 10. Its never been bad enough to warrant playing so many players out of position on such a consistent basis. Those are Moyes decisions, not ones forced upon him.
Some might say the likes of Barkley are "clearly not ready", I happen to disagree. Barkley gave away 1 penalty and has been in the doghouse ever since. Jags was guilty of so many failures earlier in the season, yet he was given a suitable run to sort it out.
Whats wrong with giving Barkley and others lots of game time to get them up to speed? They're not going to automatically become ready by sitting in the reserves. They need games!
You can argue about who is at fault for breaking the will of david moyes, but I dont think anyone can argue that he is a spent force. Time to try someone new with a bit of energy and desire.
Dave @ 32, spot on and a sensible analysis.
Owen 30 - the list isnt exactly exhaustive is it? Krøldrup was sold on for a small loss; Beattie was an error when Bent and Ashton could have been bought for the same outlay; Fellaini & Heitinga you'll get the money back all day long; Johnson was sold for a profit; Yak was good business until his Achilles took its toll; Bily was a flop and proves that buying east European remains a huge gamble ? Arshavin, Rebrov,etc.
My big beef is that we have Baines,Jagielka, Fellaini, Rodwell, and Barkely with price tags of £10M to £25M between them, and a strike force of Denis, Saha, Vellios and a couple of kids ? total outlay: £250 grand. Scoring goals is the toughest part of any game and we have a strike force that would shame most Championship clubs.
My big beef is that we have Baines,Jagielka, Fellaini, Rodwell, and Barkely with price tags of £10M to £25M between them, and a strike force of Denis, Saha, Vellios and a couple of kids ? total outlay: £250 grand. Scoring goals is the toughest part of any game and we have a strike force that would shame most Championship clubs.
So, if it's all down to BK, then why hasn't Moyes just called it a day?
Could it be something to do with those 65,000 beer tokens he is earning?
Could it be something to do with those 65,000 beer tokens he is earning?
Post 32 Spot On no more needs to be said.
Anyone absolving the idiotic Moyes has his bloody head in the sand!
Wake up! The dross Moyes serves up week in week out is getting too much to take. Anti football! The man is quite frankly worst than alladyce at present.
Wake up! The dross Moyes serves up week in week out is getting too much to take. Anti football! The man is quite frankly worst than alladyce at present.
Liverpool were supposedly a whisker away from going into receivership when the new investors came in to save the day and since then have bought a load of players who have impact.
Everton were almost bankrupt some years ago when a certain individual took his money out of the club and ran. Since then, the club says they have had little or no money, even after the sale of people like Rooney. I assume that some of that money Moyes spent on underachievers like Fellaini and Bilayaletdinov.
If Moyes suddenly gets a windfall, like Dalglish, can we trust that these days he can buy wisely? Some teams like Stoke and Norwich, who have little in the way of big investors, seem to have players that can play well against the big boys and sometimes even get results... so why can't Moyes?
I agree he did well early on but now I cannot see him as a man who can form a team that can impress anyone. All the good work he did in his first few years has been undone by poor team selections and strategies.
We need to have a fire sale in May to clear out the aging players who are past their best such as Saha, Cahill, Hibbert, Neville, Distin and Osman. I know we wouldn't get much money for them and chances are they would be let go on free transfers depending on the contracts etc.
Certainly next season we have to have a new squad. Unfortunately if prospects for investors are not good then some of the remaining players may be tempted to the bigger clubs with the prospect of playing in Europe next season as Everton seem unlikely to get there.
Everton were almost bankrupt some years ago when a certain individual took his money out of the club and ran. Since then, the club says they have had little or no money, even after the sale of people like Rooney. I assume that some of that money Moyes spent on underachievers like Fellaini and Bilayaletdinov.
If Moyes suddenly gets a windfall, like Dalglish, can we trust that these days he can buy wisely? Some teams like Stoke and Norwich, who have little in the way of big investors, seem to have players that can play well against the big boys and sometimes even get results... so why can't Moyes?
I agree he did well early on but now I cannot see him as a man who can form a team that can impress anyone. All the good work he did in his first few years has been undone by poor team selections and strategies.
We need to have a fire sale in May to clear out the aging players who are past their best such as Saha, Cahill, Hibbert, Neville, Distin and Osman. I know we wouldn't get much money for them and chances are they would be let go on free transfers depending on the contracts etc.
Certainly next season we have to have a new squad. Unfortunately if prospects for investors are not good then some of the remaining players may be tempted to the bigger clubs with the prospect of playing in Europe next season as Everton seem unlikely to get there.
It's quite true that change at Board room level is the most important change the club requires, but replacing Moyes should probably be a top priority for any new Board & I'm sure it would be.
Tom Bowers - why would you get rid of Distin? Best defender at the club by a mile and he would bring in buttons due to his age.
Hibbert is probably in the form of his life at the moment as well, so why sell him? It would cost £3-4 million to replace him, which we don't have.
Selling those would be suicide. The reason they are all at Everton is because we can't afford to buy better. Selling them off puts us even further up shit creek.
Hibbert is probably in the form of his life at the moment as well, so why sell him? It would cost £3-4 million to replace him, which we don't have.
Selling those would be suicide. The reason they are all at Everton is because we can't afford to buy better. Selling them off puts us even further up shit creek.
Whilst I agree Moyes has gone stale and has long since run out of ideas, the biggest problem at EFC by a distance is Kenwright's utter desperation to cling on at all costs much to the detriment of the club.
I notice the OP mentions the 'seals' who clapped Kenwright when his smug grid appeared on the big screen just after we went a goal up against Villa. I'd love to know why those beauts blatantly refused to do the same a few weeks earlier when his mug was shown a number of times during the QPR debacle?
I notice the OP mentions the 'seals' who clapped Kenwright when his smug grid appeared on the big screen just after we went a goal up against Villa. I'd love to know why those beauts blatantly refused to do the same a few weeks earlier when his mug was shown a number of times during the QPR debacle?
Tom Bowers, you said something that caught my eye: "Everton were almost bankrupt some years ago when a certain individual took his money out of the club and ran."
I'm going through a list names ? Gregg, Johnson, Finch, Wyness, Birch, Grantchester, Abercromby, Tamlin, Moores...
Tell me if I'm getting warm...
I'm going through a list names ? Gregg, Johnson, Finch, Wyness, Birch, Grantchester, Abercromby, Tamlin, Moores...
Tell me if I'm getting warm...
Spot on Nick Armitage, Distin's the business. He might be getting a bit long in the tooth but he's a proper centre half. I got the piss taken out of me for saying he's better than Jags but I'm sorry he is. Quality defender.
"Hibbert is probably in the form of his life at the moment." !!!!!! Please tell me that's a wind-up.
Dave Wilson #32 makes a valid arguement, and it is true, Kenwright is the real villain here. But Moyes is paid £65k a week to take the hand he's been dealt, and make it into the very best team he possibly can. In my opinion, he has categorically failed to do this.
I believe his obsession with the defensive side of the game and his complete disregard for the attacking side of it, means that he has completely failed us as a club and therefore he should go.
Would any other manager in the Premier League manage the make-up of his squad so badly that he starts a new season with absolutely no fit / recognised strikers? Only Moyes with his own particular brand of anti-football.
His totally negative approach to the game has really come back to bite him in the arse this season, and he's still too stubborn and lacking in ideas, or the bottle, to change things around a bit to try and improve our situation.
If he tries nothing new, and then fails again in our next two home games against the newly promoted teams -then that really will be the final straw for me.
And Dave, I'm not expecting "sexy football", but a fucking shot on target would be nice!
I believe his obsession with the defensive side of the game and his complete disregard for the attacking side of it, means that he has completely failed us as a club and therefore he should go.
Would any other manager in the Premier League manage the make-up of his squad so badly that he starts a new season with absolutely no fit / recognised strikers? Only Moyes with his own particular brand of anti-football.
His totally negative approach to the game has really come back to bite him in the arse this season, and he's still too stubborn and lacking in ideas, or the bottle, to change things around a bit to try and improve our situation.
If he tries nothing new, and then fails again in our next two home games against the newly promoted teams -then that really will be the final straw for me.
And Dave, I'm not expecting "sexy football", but a fucking shot on target would be nice!
January shall be the defining month for Moyes, Kenwright and players plus us fans!
The transfer -window shall be open - who is coming in? who is going out? will Bill still be in the festive spirit and give David some cash to boost the squad?
We have on paper an easy draw into the 4th Round of the Cup. But on present form I do not count out a huge Giant-killing act here from Tamworth! Sorry boys I have been an Evertonian a long time and this is a possibility.
I would like to see the young kids (Barkley, Rodwell - if still here, Gueye, McAleny) in against Tamworth plus the Strac. Give them a go and a chance to prove what they can do.
The transfer -window shall be open - who is coming in? who is going out? will Bill still be in the festive spirit and give David some cash to boost the squad?
We have on paper an easy draw into the 4th Round of the Cup. But on present form I do not count out a huge Giant-killing act here from Tamworth! Sorry boys I have been an Evertonian a long time and this is a possibility.
I would like to see the young kids (Barkley, Rodwell - if still here, Gueye, McAleny) in against Tamworth plus the Strac. Give them a go and a chance to prove what they can do.
If you have to sell your best players to balance the books, and you can't even afford to replace them with loans, has-beens or freebies, then invariably you will end up with a shite team and shite performances..... no matter how good your manager is and how much he's paid.
The club is completely goosed; if it was Johnson presiding over the litany of cock-ups and failures, there would be far less confusion as to where the real blame lies. It would seem that some can't bring themselves to blame one of our own... preferring to blame the manager for the predicament he's had little or no influence on.
Moyes has proven himself with our average league placings and negative net spend; meanwhile, the board have delivered nothing and failed continually to gain investment or add value. Yes, we are shite on the pitch at the moment... but what did you expect, we've been bottom of the league off it for over a decade?
The club is completely goosed; if it was Johnson presiding over the litany of cock-ups and failures, there would be far less confusion as to where the real blame lies. It would seem that some can't bring themselves to blame one of our own... preferring to blame the manager for the predicament he's had little or no influence on.
Moyes has proven himself with our average league placings and negative net spend; meanwhile, the board have delivered nothing and failed continually to gain investment or add value. Yes, we are shite on the pitch at the moment... but what did you expect, we've been bottom of the league off it for over a decade?
Totally agree with your comments Tom @57; without Pienaar, Arteta and Yakubu we do not look like scoring and I fear that this season we do not have the spirit of previous year's that may have seen the substitution with skill / class with guile.
Whilst Kenwright remains in charge and continues to represent the cancer that is killing our once great club, I will no longer attend Goodison Park. Enough is enough.
Whilst Kenwright remains in charge and continues to represent the cancer that is killing our once great club, I will no longer attend Goodison Park. Enough is enough.
I hate this snobbery that fans like you Thomas spout about being more intelligent than other football fans, namely the kopites.
Most Everton fans are from the same family as Liverpool fans. Football supporters across the country are from a wide range of backgrounds. I wouldn't say one lot are more intelligent than another lot. The fact is you get a wide range of opinions on how clubs should be managed and run.
Benitez won the European cup yet you call him the white elephant? You can see why maybe an intelligent Liverpool fan might disagree with you.
My opinion is there's one massive big fucking rabbit hole created by Kenwright and Moyes. They should both jump into it and fuck off never to be seen again anywhere near Goodison.
Most Everton fans are from the same family as Liverpool fans. Football supporters across the country are from a wide range of backgrounds. I wouldn't say one lot are more intelligent than another lot. The fact is you get a wide range of opinions on how clubs should be managed and run.
Benitez won the European cup yet you call him the white elephant? You can see why maybe an intelligent Liverpool fan might disagree with you.
My opinion is there's one massive big fucking rabbit hole created by Kenwright and Moyes. They should both jump into it and fuck off never to be seen again anywhere near Goodison.
I'm not so concerned about the majority of moyes' duff transfer over the years. Lets face it - we could list similar for every other manager out there, its not an exact science.
What does concern me is that we've never cracked the striker transfer conundrum. And how we've tried. Other clubs seem to manage to find a 15+ a season striker that hangs around for a few years. When the likes of darren bent, defoe, crouch etc, all quality, solid, reliable, are all plying their trade at "lesser" clubs, it really does make me wonder how we've ended up in this situation, again. We've never really had a good, stable, strike force.
What concerns me even more though is why we let yak and vaughan go, with no incoming striker to help us out. Moyes is an old hand now. It was obvious we were going to struggle to score goals this season. I find it incredulous that this is coming as a surprise.
What does concern me is that we've never cracked the striker transfer conundrum. And how we've tried. Other clubs seem to manage to find a 15+ a season striker that hangs around for a few years. When the likes of darren bent, defoe, crouch etc, all quality, solid, reliable, are all plying their trade at "lesser" clubs, it really does make me wonder how we've ended up in this situation, again. We've never really had a good, stable, strike force.
What concerns me even more though is why we let yak and vaughan go, with no incoming striker to help us out. Moyes is an old hand now. It was obvious we were going to struggle to score goals this season. I find it incredulous that this is coming as a surprise.
Alan, I am sorry but the rest of the country also thinks Redshite fans are stupid and delusional.
As Labby said 1 Evertonian is worth 20 of them.
As Labby said 1 Evertonian is worth 20 of them.
"To all the seals who clapped Kenwright at the Villa game, you are the reason we are in the bottom half of the table" - fucken idiotic comment. Yes they are mugs for cheering him but how does that equate to piss poor performances from the team and manager and a lack of any investment for years?
Blaming the fans for our problems, feck me!
Blaming the fans for our problems, feck me!
Tony, I have the Report in front of me , and as for words of the accountants, I see none. The OP is ridiculous and I would love to see the poster at the gane to discuss .
Usual bollocks of not getting facts right and the editor/head honcho should stop (that is STOP) stuff getting on here that is fatually wrong.
Mick @54 First, Who do you know who is better, Second, if you have played or do play, would you fancy yourself against him and last, would you tell him to his face how you feel. If you are positive about these then respect if not then look in the mirror and have a word
Nick @50 as always a reasoned and sensible view (I know MK its one I agree with) Diistin is the man, and I have said for a while that selling Jags for all his good points, makes sense. £15m to the Arse and the wages saved sadly makes us a selling club as if we are not, but do not tell me that the scouting network can not come up with a tough tackling big centre back for a lot less
Anyone else noticed the style of JH's crossess rather than the up and under style of others?
Usual bollocks of not getting facts right and the editor/head honcho should stop (that is STOP) stuff getting on here that is fatually wrong.
Mick @54 First, Who do you know who is better, Second, if you have played or do play, would you fancy yourself against him and last, would you tell him to his face how you feel. If you are positive about these then respect if not then look in the mirror and have a word
Nick @50 as always a reasoned and sensible view (I know MK its one I agree with) Diistin is the man, and I have said for a while that selling Jags for all his good points, makes sense. £15m to the Arse and the wages saved sadly makes us a selling club as if we are not, but do not tell me that the scouting network can not come up with a tough tackling big centre back for a lot less
Anyone else noticed the style of JH's crossess rather than the up and under style of others?
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