Season 2011-12
The Mail Bag
Stale?... Stagnant morelike!
54 Comments: For the past 18 months, I have lived in Anchorage, Alaska, where my son has a travel and tourism business. Returning home for the Christmas festivities, I determined to catch up with `my old love`, Everton FC.
A season ticket holder since the days of Billy Bingham (the manager), I forfeited my season ticket at the end of the 2009-10 season, comfortable in the knowledge that for the foreseeable future I would not feel obligated to watch the shite served up almost throughout the Moyes regime.
Now those of you who know Alaska will appreciate that local TV does not exactly view the EPL as a major viewing attraction and I have yet to locate a bar which has it on their sport menu.
Of course, I try to keep in touch via the internet and relatives and friends back home but I must admit that, as the weeks and months have passed, I find the importance of football in general and Everton in particular has waned to the point that a month can go by without any feelings of loss on my part.
Come last weekend though, and a couple of visits to `The Weld` and a smidgeon of my old enthusiasm had returned. Radio City provided an Emirates comentary and my old friend Sky recorded highlights later in the evening....
However, what struck me from both accounts was that absolutely nothing has changed. No strikers in sight, midfielders incapable of splitting a defence, and a manager who must spend more time counting his ridiculous salary than he does planning how to BEAT the Arsenal!
Now I never had any time for Kenwright ? he blew it with me after Kings Dock ? but if, as he has always claimed, he is a true Evertonian, then to put up with this, week after week, he is insulting all those who still choose to put their money in his coffers.
Fuck whether he is waiting around for the next sheik to lose his marbles, his first duty should be to the fans and the insult of Moyes should be removed NOW!
Brian Noble, Posted 12/12/2011 at 17:24:18
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Unfortunately this has always been the problem with Moyes - his shite brand of football. In his early days we could put up with it because we won more than we lost even if it was by the odd goal and finished well up the league. Rarely however did we ever thrash anyone.
The problem is, as the years have rolled by, the style of football has remained exactly the same. Every week we play ultra defensively - our back line is well back in our own half and we have one attacker. There is no way that we are ever going to play attractive attacking football doing that. It doesnt matter whether Moyes has money or not our style doesnt change.
Yes, you can go off to Alaska for a couple of years and come back and absolutely nothing has changed. Still the same boring style. It doesnt matter which individuals play - the makeup of the team is irrelevant because the style is the same and anyone with the slightest attaking tendency soon has it knocked out of them. Drenthe is a classic example - heavily criticised becasue he doesnt defend.
So you dont need the games on tele in Alaska because you know if Moyes is still in charge the dross will be the same. I would time your next return for when he has gone although there may not be many Evertonians left by then.
The problem is, as the years have rolled by, the style of football has remained exactly the same. Every week we play ultra defensively - our back line is well back in our own half and we have one attacker. There is no way that we are ever going to play attractive attacking football doing that. It doesnt matter whether Moyes has money or not our style doesnt change.
Yes, you can go off to Alaska for a couple of years and come back and absolutely nothing has changed. Still the same boring style. It doesnt matter which individuals play - the makeup of the team is irrelevant because the style is the same and anyone with the slightest attaking tendency soon has it knocked out of them. Drenthe is a classic example - heavily criticised becasue he doesnt defend.
So you dont need the games on tele in Alaska because you know if Moyes is still in charge the dross will be the same. I would time your next return for when he has gone although there may not be many Evertonians left by then.
Mick - I rate Moyes but am all one if getting Kenright etal out means Moyes goes too.
New ownership aint far away. These days do suck, though, as we wait for the inevitable change of the guard (Ownership for certain. Moyes if you like).
P.S. Retired US Army. Loved Anchorage. Loved the whole State.
New ownership aint far away. These days do suck, though, as we wait for the inevitable change of the guard (Ownership for certain. Moyes if you like).
P.S. Retired US Army. Loved Anchorage. Loved the whole State.
Every season its like ground-hog day
James #3
"New ownership aint far away."
Pray tell??
I've given up on good news and I'm a whisker away from giving up on the whole shambles of a club that I've spent the last 40 years obsessing over.
Last saturday the Arsenal result hardly bothered me, I expected it anyway, where as 2 years ago I would have been:
a) gutted for the weekend
b) there at the game.
I supported Everton through thick and thin, mostly thin, of the seventies and even then we had ambition and optimism that the good times would return "next season".
Now, I just despair.
Ground-hog day is right, Peter.
"New ownership aint far away."
Pray tell??
I've given up on good news and I'm a whisker away from giving up on the whole shambles of a club that I've spent the last 40 years obsessing over.
Last saturday the Arsenal result hardly bothered me, I expected it anyway, where as 2 years ago I would have been:
a) gutted for the weekend
b) there at the game.
I supported Everton through thick and thin, mostly thin, of the seventies and even then we had ambition and optimism that the good times would return "next season".
Now, I just despair.
Ground-hog day is right, Peter.
It's so easy to blame everything on Moyes isn't it? He picks the tactics etc?
One again the player apologists are out and what's more scary is that some people with their hatred of Moyes fail to see the bigger problem - The Board.
You show me one team, not tallking about the manager here, but a team that has had to continually sell its better players and replace them with loanees and freebies and who have gotten better? Just one team?
Why then do people expect Everton to do better than the previous seasons when our better players are being sold and not replaced. Even the not so good players like Beckford are being binned off because the profit for his sale looked good to the boarrd to stave off the banks.
In the last few seasons we have lost Pienaar, Arteta, Beckford, Yak and Lescott. That's our best defender, our two best midfielders and out top scoring forwards.
Why then, do believe belive we should be getting better results than then? Where is the logic in that kind of thinking.
We all know Moyes is too defensive, nothing new there but before he had players in the midfield who would help out and actually be able to hold the ball up and take on players. They're all gone now and all we have left is Fellaini, who will no doubt be sold in the summer.
When Moyes goes, I feel sorry for the new manager because the exact same problem will remain and we will still have fans who expect miracles to be performed with an average premiership side.
One again the player apologists are out and what's more scary is that some people with their hatred of Moyes fail to see the bigger problem - The Board.
You show me one team, not tallking about the manager here, but a team that has had to continually sell its better players and replace them with loanees and freebies and who have gotten better? Just one team?
Why then do people expect Everton to do better than the previous seasons when our better players are being sold and not replaced. Even the not so good players like Beckford are being binned off because the profit for his sale looked good to the boarrd to stave off the banks.
In the last few seasons we have lost Pienaar, Arteta, Beckford, Yak and Lescott. That's our best defender, our two best midfielders and out top scoring forwards.
Why then, do believe belive we should be getting better results than then? Where is the logic in that kind of thinking.
We all know Moyes is too defensive, nothing new there but before he had players in the midfield who would help out and actually be able to hold the ball up and take on players. They're all gone now and all we have left is Fellaini, who will no doubt be sold in the summer.
When Moyes goes, I feel sorry for the new manager because the exact same problem will remain and we will still have fans who expect miracles to be performed with an average premiership side.
But Tony...he plays 7 defenders. He goes to Man City and doesn't go attacking. He plays people out of position. He sold Yakubu. He sold Beckford. He doesn't start with the 18 year olds with no experience. Don't you see? He's ruining this once great club and making us a laughing stock to the rest of the world. He doesn't want to win. He just wants to get paid and make us lose. He wants us to get relegated. Clearly. etc etc....
Tony # 6, Would you say Moyes tactics have been good?
Do you think the timing, choice and deployment of subs has been good?
After him having total control for 10 years do you think our standard of play has improved or gone backward.
Do you rate our entertainment value as excellent, average or poor.
Do you think of his general attititude is enthusiastic, positive, negative or downright depressing.
Based on performance do you think he is worth 65,000 quid per week.
Do you think the timing, choice and deployment of subs has been good?
After him having total control for 10 years do you think our standard of play has improved or gone backward.
Do you rate our entertainment value as excellent, average or poor.
Do you think of his general attititude is enthusiastic, positive, negative or downright depressing.
Based on performance do you think he is worth 65,000 quid per week.
Dick, I have already stated that he is too defensive but his league finishes seem to suggest that he gets the best out of an average side.
It doesn't matter that he has been here 10 years, the standard of play is directly linked with the playing staff he has at his disposal, which has been reduced every year.
I don't rate any premierships team entertainment value high, I used to with Arsenal but they have even started to get business like and nto play as fluently as they once did....I wonder why? Could it be that their better players have also been sold?
I think he is more enthusiatic than I would ever be after seeing my team asset stripped by the incompetent board to satisfy the loans they couldn't keep up with.
Not one person involved in football is worth what they are paid, not a one. he engineered his new contract based on what he had done previously, so in his mind he belives he is worth every penny and what's more important, the board believed he was worth it. It doesn't matter one iota that I don't think he is worthy of such a high wage, in the same sense these dickhead bankers who lost all the money don't deserve their wages and their millions in bonuses either.
It doesn't matter that he has been here 10 years, the standard of play is directly linked with the playing staff he has at his disposal, which has been reduced every year.
I don't rate any premierships team entertainment value high, I used to with Arsenal but they have even started to get business like and nto play as fluently as they once did....I wonder why? Could it be that their better players have also been sold?
I think he is more enthusiatic than I would ever be after seeing my team asset stripped by the incompetent board to satisfy the loans they couldn't keep up with.
Not one person involved in football is worth what they are paid, not a one. he engineered his new contract based on what he had done previously, so in his mind he belives he is worth every penny and what's more important, the board believed he was worth it. It doesn't matter one iota that I don't think he is worthy of such a high wage, in the same sense these dickhead bankers who lost all the money don't deserve their wages and their millions in bonuses either.
Brian Noble is lucky to have been away for two years! He hits the nail on the head ? Kenwright and Moyes are joined at the hip, they are in it together!
When Moyes signed that mega contract, it was "for richer or poorer, in sickness and in health." He may get frustrated at times but he knew full well what he had signed up to. If that were not the case, he would have walked a long time ago but certainly when he was forced to sell Pienaar and Arteta.
In a few weeks time, we shall no doubt hear that an extended contract is on the table which will serve to preserve the Moyestro`s [irony!] position in the unlikely event of a takeover. When signed, that will condemn us to another five years of punishment at his hands.
I do agree that we could do worse than Moyes but this is Everton and is that in itself an acceptable reason for "the world's biggest Evertonian`, Chairman Bill, to put up with the shite dished up by this increasingly cranky manager?
No, of course not, but you see Kenwright, you see Moyes ? the Bonnie and Clyde of British football.
Get your arse back to Alaska, Brian... any seats on the plane?
When Moyes signed that mega contract, it was "for richer or poorer, in sickness and in health." He may get frustrated at times but he knew full well what he had signed up to. If that were not the case, he would have walked a long time ago but certainly when he was forced to sell Pienaar and Arteta.
In a few weeks time, we shall no doubt hear that an extended contract is on the table which will serve to preserve the Moyestro`s [irony!] position in the unlikely event of a takeover. When signed, that will condemn us to another five years of punishment at his hands.
I do agree that we could do worse than Moyes but this is Everton and is that in itself an acceptable reason for "the world's biggest Evertonian`, Chairman Bill, to put up with the shite dished up by this increasingly cranky manager?
No, of course not, but you see Kenwright, you see Moyes ? the Bonnie and Clyde of British football.
Get your arse back to Alaska, Brian... any seats on the plane?
Yawn,
Success for Everton (as painful as it sounds) is finishing top 7 or 8. That is the Kenwright legacy!
Moyes delivers top 7 or 8 (sometimes much higher) every year -therefore criticising substitions in specific games isn't really that relevant.
Do I regard 7th or 8th as success - No. Do I want EFC to play great football - Yes.
Is it possible to create a swashbuckling side on £300k a year, and be successful - NO!
Success for Everton (as painful as it sounds) is finishing top 7 or 8. That is the Kenwright legacy!
Moyes delivers top 7 or 8 (sometimes much higher) every year -therefore criticising substitions in specific games isn't really that relevant.
Do I regard 7th or 8th as success - No. Do I want EFC to play great football - Yes.
Is it possible to create a swashbuckling side on £300k a year, and be successful - NO!
The Premier League sucks ? I now hate watching it. The gulf between top and bottom is growing yet the standard of football played is poor.
IMHO Everton have no chance... and I have found it increasingly hard to take. It's not as though the solution is round the corner.
I'm unconvinced it's Everton that is stagnant; to me, it's football in general.
IMHO Everton have no chance... and I have found it increasingly hard to take. It's not as though the solution is round the corner.
I'm unconvinced it's Everton that is stagnant; to me, it's football in general.
Unfortunatley I've never known the joy of seeing a league won or teams coming to Goodison Park fearing a hiding, its due to my tender years that all I've known is misery and remember games such as Efan Ekoku hitting 4 against us as we succombed to a 5-1 reverse at home to Norwich
I maybe then a little out of my depth to suggest that fans who believe Moyes is the wrong man for the job, thats he's gone stale, he doesnt care anymore blah blah blah, are in need of a reality check. I would ask those fans to remember Wimbledon '94, Coventry 98', praying for Chelsea to do us a favour to keep our ONCE great club were we believe we belong.
At no point would I suggest that our past miserys excuse a current manager not doing his job, but is it really as bad as alot of you make out? Are we being turned over week in, week out? Does a derby win offer our only glimmer of light in an otherwise dark season?
I think were far beyond this and people who suggest that Mr. Moyes is taking us back to these dark days need, I'm afraid, to grow up. Especially those same fans who throw names like Peter Reid and Big Dunc into the mix as a worth successor, passions great..........means nothing if you dont know how to set up a team!
We'd love to see a free flowing brand of football, pass and move, goal scoring midfielders, 20goal a season striker, 2 take no shit defenders that can pass a ball.
Ask Blackpool fans (i am fully aware that we expect and should expect more than Blackpool fans) if they could choose between all out attack and being involved in some of the best games the league has seen in a long time, or if they'd had preferred to keep it tight now and then, to grind out a 1-0 and ultimately build for the future in the Prem instead of being one season wonders.
This arguement will go back and forth as all great debates do, there is no right and wrong, only opinions but while I'm throwing my 2pennys worth in then I'll say I'll put up the "dour and sour" football until the time and the finances change.
I maybe then a little out of my depth to suggest that fans who believe Moyes is the wrong man for the job, thats he's gone stale, he doesnt care anymore blah blah blah, are in need of a reality check. I would ask those fans to remember Wimbledon '94, Coventry 98', praying for Chelsea to do us a favour to keep our ONCE great club were we believe we belong.
At no point would I suggest that our past miserys excuse a current manager not doing his job, but is it really as bad as alot of you make out? Are we being turned over week in, week out? Does a derby win offer our only glimmer of light in an otherwise dark season?
I think were far beyond this and people who suggest that Mr. Moyes is taking us back to these dark days need, I'm afraid, to grow up. Especially those same fans who throw names like Peter Reid and Big Dunc into the mix as a worth successor, passions great..........means nothing if you dont know how to set up a team!
We'd love to see a free flowing brand of football, pass and move, goal scoring midfielders, 20goal a season striker, 2 take no shit defenders that can pass a ball.
Ask Blackpool fans (i am fully aware that we expect and should expect more than Blackpool fans) if they could choose between all out attack and being involved in some of the best games the league has seen in a long time, or if they'd had preferred to keep it tight now and then, to grind out a 1-0 and ultimately build for the future in the Prem instead of being one season wonders.
This arguement will go back and forth as all great debates do, there is no right and wrong, only opinions but while I'm throwing my 2pennys worth in then I'll say I'll put up the "dour and sour" football until the time and the finances change.
Trouble is Ant,
its dour sour and LOSING football!
we dont even grind out the 1-0s anymore!
its dour sour and LOSING football!
we dont even grind out the 1-0s anymore!
But honestly Mark, how many times have we started seasons like this? How can we expect a manager to continue to give us european football with no money to spend?
Do people really believe that Moyes wanted to lose Arteta, Beckford and Yakubu in pre-season? Or is it more likely that Kenwright has told him that the fat needs trimming again and they were the players he felt he could get the best money for without losing his top players?
If we finish in the top 10 this season then Moyes deserves Manager of the Year again, people may laugh or scoff at that, but when Swansea and Norwich are paying a few million here and there for strikers it goes to show the battle that moyes is fighting.
Do people really believe that Moyes wanted to lose Arteta, Beckford and Yakubu in pre-season? Or is it more likely that Kenwright has told him that the fat needs trimming again and they were the players he felt he could get the best money for without losing his top players?
If we finish in the top 10 this season then Moyes deserves Manager of the Year again, people may laugh or scoff at that, but when Swansea and Norwich are paying a few million here and there for strikers it goes to show the battle that moyes is fighting.
Fair enough, we haven't played the best football this year... but to argue that we've been playing dull football for 10 years is ridiculous.
A few years ago, before we started selling our best players, we played really attractive football but just didn't have the personnel to finish moves off. A £20 million striker would have done the trick but guess what, we spend less money than a Division 2 team.
Totally unsustainable and totally unrealistic to expect us to do any better than 7th/8th. We'll be lucky to make the top ten this season.
A few years ago, before we started selling our best players, we played really attractive football but just didn't have the personnel to finish moves off. A £20 million striker would have done the trick but guess what, we spend less money than a Division 2 team.
Totally unsustainable and totally unrealistic to expect us to do any better than 7th/8th. We'll be lucky to make the top ten this season.
Trimming the fat? We must be down to the bare bones, moneywise.
We can only think about loan deals at this stage which usually means misfits and players living on past glories.
Sure there are exceptions but in the January window pickings will be slim which unfortunately means we will have to go with the usual suspects resulting in more disappointments than anything else unless Moyes gets the youngsters in which he won't because points wise we are not far enough away from the relegation zone.
We can only think about loan deals at this stage which usually means misfits and players living on past glories.
Sure there are exceptions but in the January window pickings will be slim which unfortunately means we will have to go with the usual suspects resulting in more disappointments than anything else unless Moyes gets the youngsters in which he won't because points wise we are not far enough away from the relegation zone.
The both of them need to go, one will not leave or stay without the other I feel. It's so depressing and annoying I'm beginning to hate match days and dread them... Norwich home Saturday, I really do fear the worst. Every team has managed to score against Norwich; I bet we don't.
He wanted rid of Yakubu mate.
Tony J, as I've said before your player apologist comments have some merit. I don't think, though that criticising Moyes automatically makes one a PA. There are one of two things wrong. Either the players are collectively under-performing consistently. If that is so then Moyes must take responsibility. That is how I see things.
The other option is the players are doing their best but simply not good enough. If that is the case then Moyes is less responsible because, as you rightly state, his better players have been sold.
I think believing the former makes me the optimist because if the latter is true then WE'RE ALL DOOMED.
The other option is the players are doing their best but simply not good enough. If that is the case then Moyes is less responsible because, as you rightly state, his better players have been sold.
I think believing the former makes me the optimist because if the latter is true then WE'RE ALL DOOMED.
Robbie#16 Maybe your right, he may have felt that Yakubu had nothing else to give and to be fair I agreed. Paul Merson summed it up on Soccer Saturday after Yak scored 4, he said "Everton are much bigger club than Blackburn, Yakubu might not touch the ball next week, you need more to be a striker at Everton, you cant go hiding"
How many times, other than the derby were he put Meireles on his arse did we see Yak throw his weight around, answer is no were near enough. A very good striker when the team are making chances, but not a team player.
How many times, other than the derby were he put Meireles on his arse did we see Yak throw his weight around, answer is no were near enough. A very good striker when the team are making chances, but not a team player.
Stephn #15 I'll take that bet. Tenner says we score against Norwich
Andy, I blame them all. Moyes for being too defensive and stubborn, the players for not doing what they are paid handsomely to do and most of all the board for not investing one penny into our team for about a decade.
You can pretty much go back and see that all our big signings were paid for by the board selling players, not because they put their hands in their pockets....or they just took loans out against the club.
You can pretty much go back and see that all our big signings were paid for by the board selling players, not because they put their hands in their pockets....or they just took loans out against the club.
I think it is really sad that many seem to have reached the position were fans are unhappy with players manager and board.
I am a huge fan of Davie Moyes and his detractors should look at the man's record since he has been at the club. He reversed the trend from perenial relegation fodder to a team challenging for Europe, no mean feat on a shoestring budjet.
I think the loss of both Pienaar and Arteta has had a detremental effect on the creative side of our game. Also, let's not forget that both players asked to leave the club, as did Lescott.
Also, not only did Moyes loose two of his most creative players but finances didn't allow him to replace them. I would imagine any manager would struggle in those circumstances.
I am a huge fan of Davie Moyes and his detractors should look at the man's record since he has been at the club. He reversed the trend from perenial relegation fodder to a team challenging for Europe, no mean feat on a shoestring budjet.
I think the loss of both Pienaar and Arteta has had a detremental effect on the creative side of our game. Also, let's not forget that both players asked to leave the club, as did Lescott.
Also, not only did Moyes loose two of his most creative players but finances didn't allow him to replace them. I would imagine any manager would struggle in those circumstances.
Thought i was the only Evertonion in Anchorage! But like everyone else, as I sat watching the Arsenal game and watching us take off a forward for a center half with a third of the game left and no score I gave up! change is needed!!!!
But Kevin, it is nowhere near as simple as that. A defender for a forward, it's what happens afterwards.
A midfielder is pushed forward into the striker role and the centre half who can actually pass the ball quite acurately is pushed into midfield.
The 4-5-1 remains but with different players in different positions.
A midfielder is pushed forward into the striker role and the centre half who can actually pass the ball quite acurately is pushed into midfield.
The 4-5-1 remains but with different players in different positions.
"but when Swansea and Norwich are paying a few million here and there for strikers it goes to show the battle that moyes is fighting."
Ok Ant, although I didnt say I blamed Moyes, I'll ask you this.
Which players from Norwich, Swansea, QPR, Stoke,, Sunderland etc do you wish Moyes could afford to buy?
And which players in those teams would keep any of our first team out?
And yet we struggle against them and to match them?
I just dont think that Moyes gets the best out of a good, if admittedly not great, group of players and we are not as good as we could be!
Do you not think that Norwich & Swansea etc covet the likes of Fellaini, Saha, Cahill, Rodwell, Coleman, Baines, Jagielka, Distin, Heitinga, Bilya, Rodwell? Hell, Neville, Hibbert and Osman would walk into their teams!
But we cant beat the likes of them?
Why not??
Ok Ant, although I didnt say I blamed Moyes, I'll ask you this.
Which players from Norwich, Swansea, QPR, Stoke,, Sunderland etc do you wish Moyes could afford to buy?
And which players in those teams would keep any of our first team out?
And yet we struggle against them and to match them?
I just dont think that Moyes gets the best out of a good, if admittedly not great, group of players and we are not as good as we could be!
Do you not think that Norwich & Swansea etc covet the likes of Fellaini, Saha, Cahill, Rodwell, Coleman, Baines, Jagielka, Distin, Heitinga, Bilya, Rodwell? Hell, Neville, Hibbert and Osman would walk into their teams!
But we cant beat the likes of them?
Why not??
Ant #13 - this can no longer be considered the start of a season... We're soon playing the "reverse" fixtures
Moyes can't blame lack of resources when he has dismantled the squad himself. How he can be defended when he is complicit in every decision the club makes is a bit rich really. These are his own words by the way.
It doesn't matter what strikers sign or don't sign because Goodison under Moyes is a strikers graveyard. He's had ten years to solve our striking, pace and width issues. Everytime he's managed to get anyone with a half decent goalscoring record or is quick he has managed to ostracise them. I've ever heard them slate Kenwright on their way out the door either.
Moyesy knows one thing.One paced plodding utility men all over the pitch.
It doesn't matter what strikers sign or don't sign because Goodison under Moyes is a strikers graveyard. He's had ten years to solve our striking, pace and width issues. Everytime he's managed to get anyone with a half decent goalscoring record or is quick he has managed to ostracise them. I've ever heard them slate Kenwright on their way out the door either.
Moyesy knows one thing.One paced plodding utility men all over the pitch.
Chris,
I am not sure if you realise, but the club were forced to sell to stay afloat..... that's nothing to do with Moyes! He built a side gradually using every penny he earned via buying and selling, and league placings. Several key players have been sold from under him.
He may have been complicit in supporting BK.... but his record in average league placing against average net spend indicates that he has done his job far more effectively than the board, who have consistently invested and delivered nothing. Yet you believe he is equally culpable?
I am not sure if you realise, but the club were forced to sell to stay afloat..... that's nothing to do with Moyes! He built a side gradually using every penny he earned via buying and selling, and league placings. Several key players have been sold from under him.
He may have been complicit in supporting BK.... but his record in average league placing against average net spend indicates that he has done his job far more effectively than the board, who have consistently invested and delivered nothing. Yet you believe he is equally culpable?
Tom, you write as if I am missing something. The facts are Moyes himself has stated on many occasions that he is the manager and makes the decisions. Equally he waxes lyrical about his chairman at every opportunity. According to him he sold Arteta out of choice and to be fair to the player after he made him stay the previous year.
I'm not stupid and our financial issues are well documented. However, the fact that Rodwell, Fellaini, Jagielka and now Barkley have been given substantial contracts recently undermines the sell to stay afloat argument.
All I am doing is using the evidence available to me direct from the man himself.
When he comes out and tells the world that he is having the rug pulled from under him aginst his will, then I may come round to your way of thinking.
I'm not stupid and our financial issues are well documented. However, the fact that Rodwell, Fellaini, Jagielka and now Barkley have been given substantial contracts recently undermines the sell to stay afloat argument.
All I am doing is using the evidence available to me direct from the man himself.
When he comes out and tells the world that he is having the rug pulled from under him aginst his will, then I may come round to your way of thinking.
TJW - I can't be bothered adding it all up, Moyes Moyes as Everton Manager has now gone approx 50 games at Liverpool, Man U, Arse and Chelski (the traditional Sky 4) and won 0, yes NONE. Thats a bad record no matter who you are. Christ even Blackburn won an Old Trafford 2 seasons ago. Even Negative Walter won at Anfield.
PS I ignored the last insult you gave me, so please don't do it again.
PS I ignored the last insult you gave me, so please don't do it again.
I find it amusing that people still believe that Moyes is really a free flowing bohemian manager who is just shy of a bucketload of cash before we see his true colours.
If that is the case then surely the likes of Chelsea, City, Spurs, Villa, Newcastle or a variety of European clubs would have come knocking on the numerous occasions they have had vacancies in the last decade.
Kenwright and Moyes are the premier league's Hinge and Brackett.
If that is the case then surely the likes of Chelsea, City, Spurs, Villa, Newcastle or a variety of European clubs would have come knocking on the numerous occasions they have had vacancies in the last decade.
Kenwright and Moyes are the premier league's Hinge and Brackett.
Mark (5) - "New ownership aint far away."
"Pray tell??"
It's inevitable. They're down to selling players to pay the banks. There's no other assets left to sell.
So, they sell while still having enough talent to cling on to the EPL or keep selling talent until EFC is left with Championship-level talent, which means down to the Championship we go.
Which means the loss of EPL cash. Which means can't pay the bills and the banks take over. Not to mention the value of the Club dropping way down.
What's left for them to do? They have to sell. I wish it was tomorrow. But soon enough we'll have new ownership.
"Pray tell??"
It's inevitable. They're down to selling players to pay the banks. There's no other assets left to sell.
So, they sell while still having enough talent to cling on to the EPL or keep selling talent until EFC is left with Championship-level talent, which means down to the Championship we go.
Which means the loss of EPL cash. Which means can't pay the bills and the banks take over. Not to mention the value of the Club dropping way down.
What's left for them to do? They have to sell. I wish it was tomorrow. But soon enough we'll have new ownership.
Please allow for different time zones that make it hard for me to keep up with topics.
To put my thoughts on Moyes in a nutshell.
When a game is in the balance does he 'go for it' by replacing a defender with an attacker.
The answer to that provides the most accurate description of his character if not his football nous.
To put my thoughts on Moyes in a nutshell.
When a game is in the balance does he 'go for it' by replacing a defender with an attacker.
The answer to that provides the most accurate description of his character if not his football nous.
Chris..... all the evidence points to the club having to sell. No-one has denied this.... not even the club. The almost £20m recouped and reduction of the wage bill has allowed the few new contracts.... no doubt also engineered to increase the value of our next departures. The bulk then going to appease the banks. None of which is Moyes' doing. The club has been run on a shoestring.... and we are now reaping the outcome of years ineffectual management.
Regardless of the player sales, we still have a better squad than we did when we finished 4th. We still spend more on salaries than the teams who beat us. Quite simply, our current squad quality does not necessitate us playing the football Moyes insists on.
Moyes plays the same dour, crappy bollocks against QPR as against Man City or Arsenal. We create bugger all no matter who we're playing.
In his first 5 years it worked for him. It hasn't worked for him this season, and crucially he doesn't look like he could care less. His comments to the press are basically designed to cover his own arse and ensure his personal stock isn't affected when we finish 17th or worse.
Moyes plays the same dour, crappy bollocks against QPR as against Man City or Arsenal. We create bugger all no matter who we're playing.
In his first 5 years it worked for him. It hasn't worked for him this season, and crucially he doesn't look like he could care less. His comments to the press are basically designed to cover his own arse and ensure his personal stock isn't affected when we finish 17th or worse.
Agreed. Moyes and his stinking negative tactics and defeatist attitude be gone!
Ok Tom, Moyes is obviously a liar then. He's not responsible for player sales and not responsible for tactics. No wonder he deosn't rock the boat. He's got the easiest job in football.
Wayne, last year we had one of, if not the smallest squad in the prem..... we have since sold several key players including the most creative ones. We haven't spent serious money on new players in years and we are now outspent by everyone.....
By 2009 Moyes had built a side that could almost compete, all from practically nothing and NO-ONE was calling for his head after repeated top 7 finishes! Now he has had to watch all that good work dismantled to leave a side that is no longer balanced and weakened in quality when most others have strengthened..... is anyone really surprised? There was only ever going to be one outcome.
By 2009 Moyes had built a side that could almost compete, all from practically nothing and NO-ONE was calling for his head after repeated top 7 finishes! Now he has had to watch all that good work dismantled to leave a side that is no longer balanced and weakened in quality when most others have strengthened..... is anyone really surprised? There was only ever going to be one outcome.
Chris..... there is only one liar you need worry about! Where do you think the £20m has gone? Did you not read the e-mails..... none of this is new news. The club is a financial basket case and run out of assets to sell...... hence the plug has been pulled.
I think it suits Moyes to be able to insuate-but never state-that his troubles are all down to lack of money ie,BK`s fault.
There is no evidence that when he has been given money to spend ? and he has ? he invests it wisely. Don`t give me Felli, he`s average and was overpriced, and only Lescott has made us real money. Cahill WAS a good `un and Arteta turned a profit but just think of the strikers he`s signed and ruined.
£10M for Baines and Jagielka was decent business but more than cancelled out by excess expenditure on Heitinga and Bily and the aforementioned curley top.
But even if they had all been value for money when signed, I believe Moyes would have drilled the arses off them in trying to make them function in roles for which they were not suited.
No, Moyes to me is a drill seargent with little imagination whose `battle tactics` come out of a manual long past its sell date. He`s up to his arse in the money Bill pays him to toe the line and they both should be judged as one.
There is no evidence that when he has been given money to spend ? and he has ? he invests it wisely. Don`t give me Felli, he`s average and was overpriced, and only Lescott has made us real money. Cahill WAS a good `un and Arteta turned a profit but just think of the strikers he`s signed and ruined.
£10M for Baines and Jagielka was decent business but more than cancelled out by excess expenditure on Heitinga and Bily and the aforementioned curley top.
But even if they had all been value for money when signed, I believe Moyes would have drilled the arses off them in trying to make them function in roles for which they were not suited.
No, Moyes to me is a drill seargent with little imagination whose `battle tactics` come out of a manual long past its sell date. He`s up to his arse in the money Bill pays him to toe the line and they both should be judged as one.
James @ 33,
They have been selling players to pay the banks since - and probably before - Rooney left. That's 7 and a half years ago now and still no sale. I wish I had your optimism / naivety.
They have been selling players to pay the banks since - and probably before - Rooney left. That's 7 and a half years ago now and still no sale. I wish I had your optimism / naivety.
I think they should only be judged on the job they have done..... The Board's job has been to invest in the club and/or to modernise/relocate the stadium to help increase revenue streams to give the manager the funds he needs to build a side. They have achieved the least of all major clubs in this respect.... and most medium and small clubs too for that matter.
The Manager's job is to create a side that competes to its potential using the funds at his disposal. The only funds he has had have come after one of his players has been sold, and invariably right at the end of the transfer window when the cupboard is bare. Despite this, Moyes' team have won more points during his tenure than all but the top 5 or so clubs... so how can they be judged as one? One always fails to deliver, the other has produced from a standing start of the shite he inherited, to a team consistently considered the best of the rest that looked close to challenging the top 5 only 2yrs ago. The footy hasn't always been great, but it also hasn't always been the current fayre.
The Manager's job is to create a side that competes to its potential using the funds at his disposal. The only funds he has had have come after one of his players has been sold, and invariably right at the end of the transfer window when the cupboard is bare. Despite this, Moyes' team have won more points during his tenure than all but the top 5 or so clubs... so how can they be judged as one? One always fails to deliver, the other has produced from a standing start of the shite he inherited, to a team consistently considered the best of the rest that looked close to challenging the top 5 only 2yrs ago. The footy hasn't always been great, but it also hasn't always been the current fayre.
Chris #30 "However, the fact that Rodwell, Fellaini, Jagielka and now Barkley have been given substantial contracts recently undermines the sell to stay afloat argument."
Just protecting the value of the few remaining assets, because they're worth more if they are on longer contracts.
Just protecting the value of the few remaining assets, because they're worth more if they are on longer contracts.
^otherwise they'd all be able to do a Pienaar or a Gosling.
Moyes can't blame lack of resources when he has dismantled the squad himself. How he can be defended when he is complicit in every decision the club makes is a bit rich really. These are his own words by the way.
It doesn't matter what strikers sign or don't sign because Goodison under Moyes is a strikers graveyard. He's had ten years to solve our striking, pace and width issues. Everytime he's managed to get anyone with a half decent goalscoring record or is quick he has managed to ostracise them. I've ever heard them slate Kenwright on their way out the door either.
Moyesy knows one thing.One paced plodding utility men all over the pitch.
It doesn't matter what strikers sign or don't sign because Goodison under Moyes is a strikers graveyard. He's had ten years to solve our striking, pace and width issues. Everytime he's managed to get anyone with a half decent goalscoring record or is quick he has managed to ostracise them. I've ever heard them slate Kenwright on their way out the door either.
Moyesy knows one thing.One paced plodding utility men all over the pitch.
^So Chris, if your boss says to you we've got to cut costs, go choose one of your staff to sack that makes you complicit?
Chris..... how long have you been posting on here? Everytime Moyes has got close to fashioning a side that will challenge he's had to sell.... do you really believe he chose to sell arteta, peinaar, yakubu. Beckford, vaughan etc with no replacements when we already had the smallest squad in the league? He hasn't said it was all his own choice at all.... he's simply fighting fires. The club has been selling everything that isn't nailed down to keep them in place for several yrs now..... there is nothing left to sell but the assets on the pitch. The bank came knocking and we had to sell..... end of story. Even the club won't deny this, so why are you? Are you rossy's parting gift by any chance? ;)
Mark#27 Think you must of misunderstood what I saying, I most likely wouldn't take anyone from Norwich, Swansea etc. The point I was making is that we look at them, rightly or wrongly, as lesser teams who we should be beating at a canter but surely its unrealistic to expect us to compete with the likes of Spurs, Liverpool etc on the pitch when we can't compete with Swansea off it.
If the man had any balls,then,Tom,he would have walked out a long time ago!
Instead and IF things were as you say,he`s stuck around to bore the arses off us and paper his wallet!
Instead and IF things were as you say,he`s stuck around to bore the arses off us and paper his wallet!
So our lack of investment is the reason we're in such a dire position, tactics and morale wise? Well we have just let our most creative player - Arteta - go to a club who were lacking in confidence, getting drubbed and only managing 7 points from 7 games. Since he joined, they've earned 19 out of 21!!! Beckford - our top scoring striker in his first season and limited appearances, gone. And Yakubu has now scored 9 goals in 9 games for a side who are struggling below us and the fans want the managers head after just one season!!!! It's a crazy old game eh
Phil, maybe his balls are the reason why he hasn't left.
He keeps getting dealt shitter hands eaxh season but he keeps trying to do better, hence the better finish last year than teh one before.
I am sure the £65k a week helps immensely but when you judge the character of the man, I believe he has some misguided view that he wants to either finish the job or feels he owes the fans/club something for making him a millionnaire.
I would have jibbed us seasons ago but he keeps on going.
One last point, you don't need balls to be a quitter.
He keeps getting dealt shitter hands eaxh season but he keeps trying to do better, hence the better finish last year than teh one before.
I am sure the £65k a week helps immensely but when you judge the character of the man, I believe he has some misguided view that he wants to either finish the job or feels he owes the fans/club something for making him a millionnaire.
I would have jibbed us seasons ago but he keeps on going.
One last point, you don't need balls to be a quitter.
But you do to stand up to your chairman at the risk of losing your job,Tony! Your view of things may well be charitable at this time of the year but mine is that Moyes does us no favours by letting his displeasure fester for fear of losing all that dough!
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1 Posted 12/12/2011 at 22:09:32
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Look, if we could just get a manager with balls who knows about tactics and the power of substitutions. We have a chance if we act quickly sack him now. With the talent coming through we have a spring board... I agree with you how dire it is, when did my family and I enjoy a game last (Euro travels had some enjoyment to them, but that was mainly getting there, except for Bucharest and Lisbon).
Now hes looking for another forward to buy so he can sit him on the bench, then Moyes inspires us by playing them up on their own without proper support , ie, Bily, who has done nothing since we have had him, Cahill who just looks a misfit this season, and Coleman, our future right back covering a position with his enthusiasm.
The jewel in the crown, Barkley has been punished for a mistake that Jags does once or twice a game! And now Drenthe who seems the business, his only weakness is not having strong enough hands (so I am lead to believe). Most of our players would be far better in an attacking formation. There must be someone out there that can help us.