Season 2011-12
The Mail Bag
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By all accounts it was desperate stuff tonight. Had I been there I would have been as angry as those posting on another thread. Unfortunately, tonight for the first time in many years I feel indifferent regarding a bad result. I actually thought we would win well tonight but I'm not gutted that we didn't.
Under David Moyes, we have, on occasion, played great stuff and won; more often, we have played dour stuff and won; now, too often, we play poor stuff and lose ? and that is what kills hope.
I have said enough on this site about David Moyes and perhaps too little about the players; they just aren't collectively very good.
Old stadium, disgrace for a chairman, a coach who I have criticised for years but who must, frankly, be at the end of his tether... not very good but still under performing players and loyal, so loyal long suffering fans. For me it is time to reassess my view of Everton and my expectations because this is the way it is.
Having read through all 140+ comments on this site since last night, there are only a handful still defending Moyes and pretty much noone defending Kenwright. It would be interesting if Toffeeweb ran some new polls:
1. Do you think Moyes is still the right man to manage Everton? Yes / No
2. Do you think Kenwright has the best interests of the club at heart? Yes / No
I know it's not scientific research but it would be interesting to see some stats on what Everton fans are feeling and even draw the club's attention to it.
My answer to both questions is NO.
1. Do you think Moyes is still the right man to manage Everton? Yes / No
2. Do you think Kenwright has the best interests of the club at heart? Yes / No
I know it's not scientific research but it would be interesting to see some stats on what Everton fans are feeling and even draw the club's attention to it.
My answer to both questions is NO.
Pretty much agree with Andy.
And to think I got up at 3 am to watch it as well! But I know I will be doing the same next Wednesday morning.
And to think I got up at 3 am to watch it as well! But I know I will be doing the same next Wednesday morning.
Dave Lynch
You have said on several ocassions that you would not go to another Everton match while Moyes is in Charge.
Can I ask if you were being ironic with the title - picking a random seat, to express that you feel this was bad from whatever angle you saw it - or did you have a change of heart and actually went to Goodison last night ?
You have said on several ocassions that you would not go to another Everton match while Moyes is in Charge.
Can I ask if you were being ironic with the title - picking a random seat, to express that you feel this was bad from whatever angle you saw it - or did you have a change of heart and actually went to Goodison last night ?
Moyes and his conjoined twin Kenwright both need to go.
It's that simple.
Can we pick up enough points to stay up?
It could well depend on whether we somehow acquire the new Kevin Campbell. There are better forwards playing in the Blue Square Premier league than most of our forwards. If you don't believe me , consider that Steve Morison was playing at that level 3 years ago.
I never go any more but I do wonder who would pay to watch stuff like last night.
It's that simple.
Can we pick up enough points to stay up?
It could well depend on whether we somehow acquire the new Kevin Campbell. There are better forwards playing in the Blue Square Premier league than most of our forwards. If you don't believe me , consider that Steve Morison was playing at that level 3 years ago.
I never go any more but I do wonder who would pay to watch stuff like last night.
No Dave.
I was offered tickets at reduced cost through Everton in The Community, due to the trust i work for.
My wife actually talked me into going as did my 14 year lad who accompanied me and boy am i sorry i relented.
I was offered tickets at reduced cost through Everton in The Community, due to the trust i work for.
My wife actually talked me into going as did my 14 year lad who accompanied me and boy am i sorry i relented.
Time to change the old motto methinks no longer can we say 'In Moyes we trust' now we must say 'With Moyes we're BUST"
Every week of this season I have found myself thinking that I am not going to bother any more. 10 mins later I am on t'interweb searching all things Everton. I am an addict. Fortunately for me the cure is round the corner as I am as big a Wigan Warriors fan as I am an Everton fan. So come February I will have my Warriors to submerse myself in and can ignore Dour Dave, Black Bill and the complete and utter drivel that is being served up week after week.
I've little doubt that a poll as suggested above would see Moyes `re-elected by a large majority`. The man has done a wonderful job under difficult circumstances which will not improve until fresh investment or a SUITABLE new owner is forthcoming.
In the meantime, it behoves us all to give our man and his team our continued support!
In the meantime, it behoves us all to give our man and his team our continued support!
Craig, we should have gone for Michael Maguire at Everton, at least he would instill some passion and attacking flair! And maybe he would play our own Sam Tomkins , Ross Barkley. It will be interesting to see how Shaun Wane does, a Wiganer through and through.
Richard@10 - your staunch loyalty towards DM is admirable given the abuse you regularly receive and WILL receive again for speaking out once more.
I can't agree with you on many things as I believe that much of the football served up during DM's years in charge has been dire and soulless.
The dwindling crowds can't all be wrong, can they ?
Richard - surely you can't be happy with this situation ? Don't you have any doubts about DM's stewardship ?
Doddy, this team would seriously do better with no manager than Moyes at the moment.
Richard, it would be good if Michael could run this poll to test the hypothesis. Those who visit toffeeweb will undoubtedly only be a minority of the local, global support, however it would be a good exercise to run.
Of course, like most of us, I saw last night's game as worse than dire but there were mitigating circumstances as noted on another thread. We lost a game the team were expected to win ? and that is always a choker ? but by no means the end of the world.
I hate the thought of throwing away 10 years of great stewardship on the altar of defeat on a rainy, blustery night, when either team could so easily have prevailed.
I hate the thought of throwing away 10 years of great stewardship on the altar of defeat on a rainy, blustery night, when either team could so easily have prevailed.
Alan, why do the poll straight after a defeat? Why not after a win?
Why wait until now to run it?
We know what the result will be anyway, even if we went on a 10 game winning streak, most of the posters on here would say it was juct papering over the cracks and still want him gone.
It is not going to be an acurate representation of Everton fans, just this site.
Why wait until now to run it?
We know what the result will be anyway, even if we went on a 10 game winning streak, most of the posters on here would say it was juct papering over the cracks and still want him gone.
It is not going to be an acurate representation of Everton fans, just this site.
Dave, Lower Gwladys, Row X seat 68
The view from there was no better.
The view from there was no better.
Richard, it's actually a first. A team bottom of the league couldn't beat a team, let's say 18 places above them could they?
Surely it's unprecedented....isn't it?
Maybe that Alex Ferguson is a fraud afterall and tactically devoid etc
Surely it's unprecedented....isn't it?
Maybe that Alex Ferguson is a fraud afterall and tactically devoid etc
Tony J
Lower Gwladys St. row AC ,Seat 185
Fantastic view.
Of a steel girder. Which is one reason why that is the most sought after spec in Goodison.
If I bother with a Season Ticket next year I might ask for that one.
Lower Gwladys St. row AC ,Seat 185
Fantastic view.
Of a steel girder. Which is one reason why that is the most sought after spec in Goodison.
If I bother with a Season Ticket next year I might ask for that one.
Richard
What were the mitigating circumstances for the Bolton team and manager?
What were the mitigating circumstances for the Bolton team and manager?
Ray, it may be more interesting counting the bolts in the girder than watching the rubbish on the pitch.
Tony.
There wasn't a decent view in the whole stadium !
It will be a cold night in hell before i go back mate that's for sure.
There wasn't a decent view in the whole stadium !
It will be a cold night in hell before i go back mate that's for sure.
Tony, for the record, even if we win the next 10 games, I would still want Moyes gone. My mind is made up.
It would be like finding out your missus is cheating on you, telling her off, then figuring out she didn't actually cheat on you. The image is tainted, the damage done.
It would be like finding out your missus is cheating on you, telling her off, then figuring out she didn't actually cheat on you. The image is tainted, the damage done.
Tony,
I've already done that.
The only person who looked more uncomfortable watching that crap last night was Moyes.
Still, you'd be uncomfortable,too, as Kenwrights puppet with his hand up your backside.
Michael Kendrick, please don't allow Dodd on here again without ensuring that his carer has read his ridiculous efforts. And then binned them. We feel bad enough as it is without seeing his drivel.
I've already done that.
The only person who looked more uncomfortable watching that crap last night was Moyes.
Still, you'd be uncomfortable,too, as Kenwrights puppet with his hand up your backside.
Michael Kendrick, please don't allow Dodd on here again without ensuring that his carer has read his ridiculous efforts. And then binned them. We feel bad enough as it is without seeing his drivel.
Doddy, you do realize you've turned yourself into the polar opposite of Tony Marsh don't you? I'm sure you're just revelling in the attention, you can't seriously believe what you write can you?
Just when does the buck stop with Moyes for the football teams performances?
You seem a bit like the captain of the Titanic saying, oh it'll be alright, there were mitigating circumstances, the weather isn't normally like this and it's rare to see such a big iceberg never mind hit one. Sure we've sustained a bit of damage, but we haven't sunk yet have we, this ships unsinkable you know, I've never been on a sinking ship yet. Where has everyone gone?
Just when does the buck stop with Moyes for the football teams performances?
You seem a bit like the captain of the Titanic saying, oh it'll be alright, there were mitigating circumstances, the weather isn't normally like this and it's rare to see such a big iceberg never mind hit one. Sure we've sustained a bit of damage, but we haven't sunk yet have we, this ships unsinkable you know, I've never been on a sinking ship yet. Where has everyone gone?
Robbie, interesting analogy. Like Moyes, the captain of the Titanic only got roughly 3/4 through his planned course as well.
Fair enough Dave.
There was a reason I asked, is I believe you get a totally different perspective when you are at the game to the one you get watching from home.
As somebody above has already stated, theres no dressing up this dogs dinner of a performance.
Heres my take.
To answer the question of dwindling "crowds" I would say this ; The number of Evertonians staying away was less than you think. the away team often takes up around 3,000 but - and Dave will back me up - you could probably have got Boltons support loaded into a mini bus.
I think by Maintaining a relatively high league position and bringing players like Arteta, Pienaar, Cahill, Lescot etc to GP, Davey Moyes has done more than anyone to keep attendance levels where they are. IMO its incredibly unfair and shortsighted to point to our smallest crowd and blame him for "falling attendances" I would bet good money on Evertons average gate being around 34/35k by the end of the season.
Phil
"Mitigating circumstances" I think there was quite a few. We went into the game without, Coleman, Felaini, Drenthe, all would have started if fit. In a matter of minutes we lost Osman andJagielka . . we even lost Rodwell (Osmans replacement)
Now I dont want to take away anything from Bolton, they deserved their win, but the sort of disruption to personel we sufferd last night would have derailled far bigger squads than ours. How can the manager be held responsible for that ?
He played the system that many of his critics have claimed is holding us back and worra ya know ? 4-4-2 crashed and burnt.
I find it utterly bizzarre that when Moyes Makes a successful substitution, his critics claim it was "forced upon him". Yet in the very next game when ALL the substitutions ARE actually forced upon him . .he`s still somehow to blame
How exactly does that work ?
There was a reason I asked, is I believe you get a totally different perspective when you are at the game to the one you get watching from home.
As somebody above has already stated, theres no dressing up this dogs dinner of a performance.
Heres my take.
To answer the question of dwindling "crowds" I would say this ; The number of Evertonians staying away was less than you think. the away team often takes up around 3,000 but - and Dave will back me up - you could probably have got Boltons support loaded into a mini bus.
I think by Maintaining a relatively high league position and bringing players like Arteta, Pienaar, Cahill, Lescot etc to GP, Davey Moyes has done more than anyone to keep attendance levels where they are. IMO its incredibly unfair and shortsighted to point to our smallest crowd and blame him for "falling attendances" I would bet good money on Evertons average gate being around 34/35k by the end of the season.
Phil
"Mitigating circumstances" I think there was quite a few. We went into the game without, Coleman, Felaini, Drenthe, all would have started if fit. In a matter of minutes we lost Osman andJagielka . . we even lost Rodwell (Osmans replacement)
Now I dont want to take away anything from Bolton, they deserved their win, but the sort of disruption to personel we sufferd last night would have derailled far bigger squads than ours. How can the manager be held responsible for that ?
He played the system that many of his critics have claimed is holding us back and worra ya know ? 4-4-2 crashed and burnt.
I find it utterly bizzarre that when Moyes Makes a successful substitution, his critics claim it was "forced upon him". Yet in the very next game when ALL the substitutions ARE actually forced upon him . .he`s still somehow to blame
How exactly does that work ?
Dave #27 - I'd say that the majority of teams no longer bring the full 3,000 fans to Goodison although usually they bring more than Bolton!
Everton have had a reduced price policy on for some time now and still the crowds are down. I think you're being a tad optimistic to suggest the crowds will average 34 to 35,000 at the end of the season, but even if you're right, it's next year's figures that are going to worry me.
Seriously, I know that there is a certain amount of churn each close season but faced with a worsening economic crisis and having to watch unappealing dross every home match, can you see as many people renewing their season tickets next season?
Everton have had a reduced price policy on for some time now and still the crowds are down. I think you're being a tad optimistic to suggest the crowds will average 34 to 35,000 at the end of the season, but even if you're right, it's next year's figures that are going to worry me.
Seriously, I know that there is a certain amount of churn each close season but faced with a worsening economic crisis and having to watch unappealing dross every home match, can you see as many people renewing their season tickets next season?
Robbie and Roman # 25 & 26: The Captain of the Titanic went down with the ship. I we we and Moyes both go down together, I don't fancy our chances of trying to keep it tight and pinch one - our way back up.
"I find it utterly bizzarre that when Moyes Makes a successful substitution, his critics claim it was "forced upon him". Yet in the very next game when ALL the substitutions ARE actually forced upon him . .he`s still somehow to blame"
That's actually a very good point Dave.
I also like the "wrong 4-4-2" quote aswell.
I would love to know what is happening with Barkley though, something is not right there, however even Kendall said that Moyes is doing the right thing with Ross, as he has effectively missed a year and a half of his development due to his injury.
If Drenthe would have been playing yesterday, I reckon we would have won.
It's strange also that a game where Osman is subbed we lose. Never thought I would even think like that before.
That's actually a very good point Dave.
I also like the "wrong 4-4-2" quote aswell.
I would love to know what is happening with Barkley though, something is not right there, however even Kendall said that Moyes is doing the right thing with Ross, as he has effectively missed a year and a half of his development due to his injury.
If Drenthe would have been playing yesterday, I reckon we would have won.
It's strange also that a game where Osman is subbed we lose. Never thought I would even think like that before.
Ray
Agreed. Tom Huges made the point yesterday that over a longer period our attendances are on a downward spiral.
But we are a club ran by a board that is now offering zero investment in the team.
Moyes has enjoyed incredible backing from the match goer down the years, he brought a pride back to the club and has played a big part in keeping our attendances up.
I find it Bizzarre that after years of defying gravity, people are now pointing the finger and blaiming him for falling gates.
Your right of course, but Evertonians are not divided about whether we play shite football or not, we are now divided as to were the blame lies.
This site has a big anti Moyes membership and you only have to read last nights posts to see that number is growing, they are IMO fuelling each others anger.
I go home and away, watching Everton is my social life as well as my passion. I think I have a good understanding of how the match goer feels. They see these shite performances too, its even worse for them. they pay to see it . .but we come back to "mitigating circumstances".Most believe Moyes to be the victim, not the culprit
If there was a pole to get rid of Moyes on TW. I wouldnt be surprised if it went the wrong way for him - just as it would go his way of the pole was conducted on kipper - but I speak with absolute honesty here when I say I`m convinced such a movement against Moyes amongsts the match goers would be crushed under the sheer weight of his support.
Agreed. Tom Huges made the point yesterday that over a longer period our attendances are on a downward spiral.
But we are a club ran by a board that is now offering zero investment in the team.
Moyes has enjoyed incredible backing from the match goer down the years, he brought a pride back to the club and has played a big part in keeping our attendances up.
I find it Bizzarre that after years of defying gravity, people are now pointing the finger and blaiming him for falling gates.
Your right of course, but Evertonians are not divided about whether we play shite football or not, we are now divided as to were the blame lies.
This site has a big anti Moyes membership and you only have to read last nights posts to see that number is growing, they are IMO fuelling each others anger.
I go home and away, watching Everton is my social life as well as my passion. I think I have a good understanding of how the match goer feels. They see these shite performances too, its even worse for them. they pay to see it . .but we come back to "mitigating circumstances".Most believe Moyes to be the victim, not the culprit
If there was a pole to get rid of Moyes on TW. I wouldnt be surprised if it went the wrong way for him - just as it would go his way of the pole was conducted on kipper - but I speak with absolute honesty here when I say I`m convinced such a movement against Moyes amongsts the match goers would be crushed under the sheer weight of his support.
Four words that sum up why I have had enough of Moyes:
Phil Neville In Midfield.
Phil Neville In Midfield.
I've been a staunch defender of Moyes over the past few year on this site, maybe not in the Doddy bracket but certainly one who thought that he was doing a good job given the circumstances. However, I'm having my doubts now.
There is an air of negativity around this club. It is evident on this site and it is evident at Goodison. Yes, there is no money but Moyes is becoming more and more miserable and sulky with each passing week and his formations and tactics are the reason why the negativity is getting worse and worse.
How about a bit of positive thinking and talk for once? How about bigging up what we do have instead of talking down our chances? How about genuinely going for it form the start of a game with an attacking formation for once? I don't count last night as this, even with a 4-4-2, as we still had a defensive midfield and Saha on the pitch. I'd even start McFadden before Saha at present.
Let's give Stracquiliri or Vellios a run of games from the start. Let's see Barkley play for a few games on the run. Why doesn't Moyes say "our aim to finish in the top 8 and I think we can do it" not "we will be lucky to finish top half"?
I'm taking my youngest to their first game on Saturday and we'd better not be 4-5-1 against Tamworth!
There is an air of negativity around this club. It is evident on this site and it is evident at Goodison. Yes, there is no money but Moyes is becoming more and more miserable and sulky with each passing week and his formations and tactics are the reason why the negativity is getting worse and worse.
How about a bit of positive thinking and talk for once? How about bigging up what we do have instead of talking down our chances? How about genuinely going for it form the start of a game with an attacking formation for once? I don't count last night as this, even with a 4-4-2, as we still had a defensive midfield and Saha on the pitch. I'd even start McFadden before Saha at present.
Let's give Stracquiliri or Vellios a run of games from the start. Let's see Barkley play for a few games on the run. Why doesn't Moyes say "our aim to finish in the top 8 and I think we can do it" not "we will be lucky to finish top half"?
I'm taking my youngest to their first game on Saturday and we'd better not be 4-5-1 against Tamworth!
Dave,I actually believe that the greatest factor in dwindling attendances is economic. I have said in one of my numerous fits of rage that I wouldn't go while Kenwright is there. Nonsense of course. I haven't been over to a game this season because I simply can't afford it.
Having said that,for me going to a game is one of the big events of the year. If I went to every game maybe I'd think differently.
Having said that,for me going to a game is one of the big events of the year. If I went to every game maybe I'd think differently.
Dave,
Have a look at last seasons attendance as all the conditions I.e. economic, league positions etc were very similar.
I bet were a good few thousand down?
I would say that the general despair around the club has taken a few, falling out of love with the game a few more, but the majority can't stomach this mindless shit served up.
Have a look at last seasons attendance as all the conditions I.e. economic, league positions etc were very similar.
I bet were a good few thousand down?
I would say that the general despair around the club has taken a few, falling out of love with the game a few more, but the majority can't stomach this mindless shit served up.
BTW LG EE 80
Stephen, hopefully that is the registration number of our new striker?
It is Mark, I clocked Kevin Davies reg before he shot off.
Dave-I haven't been to Goodison for over 2 and a half years. The reason being Moyes defensive negative tactics. The last 7 times i'd been to Goodison (all with Moyes) we hadn't even scored! I made the decision not to go until he (Moyes) is no longer manager. It's killing me no longer going, but i'm sticking to it as not only has nothing changed, the football is now as bad as it gets!
Dave Wilson, I like this new humbler approach. You make very good points which I do see and the clearest one is that blues have different opinions of where the blame lies.
Personally, I believe the blame lies somewhere around 70 - 30 between Moyes and Kenwright respectively for the shite we see out on the pitch. I'll keep the players out of this because that just muddies the waters too much, and it can be argued that they are Moyes' players etc. etc.
It would be interesting to know as a percentage spread between Kenwright and Moyes where fans believe the blame lies for the fair we are enduring.
As our finances get inevitably worse now that our assets have been stripped I see the percentage getting higher for Kenwright as Moyes will be further hamstrung, but he has had a lot of money, and he has wasted a size able chunk of it, IMHO of course.
Personally, I believe the blame lies somewhere around 70 - 30 between Moyes and Kenwright respectively for the shite we see out on the pitch. I'll keep the players out of this because that just muddies the waters too much, and it can be argued that they are Moyes' players etc. etc.
It would be interesting to know as a percentage spread between Kenwright and Moyes where fans believe the blame lies for the fair we are enduring.
As our finances get inevitably worse now that our assets have been stripped I see the percentage getting higher for Kenwright as Moyes will be further hamstrung, but he has had a lot of money, and he has wasted a size able chunk of it, IMHO of course.
Dave,
We were playing Bolton, ffs, and they ran rings round us - I'm too bitter to allow for "mitigating circumstances"; after 10 years, we can't cope with the normal vagaries of player availablility? Says eveything about the Board, particularly
We were playing Bolton, ffs, and they ran rings round us - I'm too bitter to allow for "mitigating circumstances"; after 10 years, we can't cope with the normal vagaries of player availablility? Says eveything about the Board, particularly
Dave @27.
I actually doff my cap to those lads that turn up to watch that shite every week.
I was a season ticket holder for many years up untill 2 seasons ago and have seen us win both major domestic trophies as well as CWC.
I do have a major problem with the club at present in the fact that i think the fans are being taken for mugs.
Moyes and Kenwright are brothers in arms and killing this once great club, any other manager would have walked by now due to lack of support and investment. Consequently any other manager would have been sacked due to the poor performances and results. i am not naive enough not to realise though, that one without the other would doom us to relegation.
I just pray to god that a buyer can be found and breathe some life back into the club.
I actually doff my cap to those lads that turn up to watch that shite every week.
I was a season ticket holder for many years up untill 2 seasons ago and have seen us win both major domestic trophies as well as CWC.
I do have a major problem with the club at present in the fact that i think the fans are being taken for mugs.
Moyes and Kenwright are brothers in arms and killing this once great club, any other manager would have walked by now due to lack of support and investment. Consequently any other manager would have been sacked due to the poor performances and results. i am not naive enough not to realise though, that one without the other would doom us to relegation.
I just pray to god that a buyer can be found and breathe some life back into the club.
On Wednesday I constantly took the piss out of a red shite colleague who blamed their loss to City on the fact that "they didn't handle the rain well".
Good ole blues though for going one better. Moyes said the lads didn't adapt to the conditions well despite our keeper scoring a freak goal BECAUSE of the conditions.
Here's a thought Davey. Play ball players from the off. Adopt a shorter passing and movement game instead of hopeless punts and praying for set pieces. It might just work in the windy conditions. You could then try it out in other weather scenarios.
Let's be honest, how many times have we won this season and looked good? Lucky at Blackburn, lucky at Fulham, lucky with Wigan at home, lucky against Wolves at home, awful at WBA but snatched it etc. etc.
I hate myself for saying this but perhaps Everton will move forward in the longer term by losing games like Bolton at home rather than winning them. I think when Moyes scrapes his typical 1-0 victories, it masks the many problems we have as a club. We suddenly get optimistic and talk of titles and Europe. In reality we are middle of the road club which is going backwards and playing unimaginative, boring football. This is not the Everton I know and love.
Good ole blues though for going one better. Moyes said the lads didn't adapt to the conditions well despite our keeper scoring a freak goal BECAUSE of the conditions.
Here's a thought Davey. Play ball players from the off. Adopt a shorter passing and movement game instead of hopeless punts and praying for set pieces. It might just work in the windy conditions. You could then try it out in other weather scenarios.
Let's be honest, how many times have we won this season and looked good? Lucky at Blackburn, lucky at Fulham, lucky with Wigan at home, lucky against Wolves at home, awful at WBA but snatched it etc. etc.
I hate myself for saying this but perhaps Everton will move forward in the longer term by losing games like Bolton at home rather than winning them. I think when Moyes scrapes his typical 1-0 victories, it masks the many problems we have as a club. We suddenly get optimistic and talk of titles and Europe. In reality we are middle of the road club which is going backwards and playing unimaginative, boring football. This is not the Everton I know and love.
With our finances it's only a matter of time before Kenwrights hand is forced by the falling attendances.
Most businesses spend fortunes trying to find out how customers view their products/services more so when sales are down, Everton will be no different.
The CEO can easily find out how his customers feel in explicit detail without spending a bean. I only really use TW and GOT and the prevailing mood seems to be Moyes style of play is no longer acceptable to a fair amount.
Unlike Dave I can't see attendances picking up and reaching a decent average and I can't see us going on the type of run that will bring fairweathers back into the fold.
One thing you can be certain of is that there's no way Kenwright will be looking close to home when placing blame and Moyes will cop it. I think we will see a 26-27'000 game at GP this season if this style of play continues.
Most businesses spend fortunes trying to find out how customers view their products/services more so when sales are down, Everton will be no different.
The CEO can easily find out how his customers feel in explicit detail without spending a bean. I only really use TW and GOT and the prevailing mood seems to be Moyes style of play is no longer acceptable to a fair amount.
Unlike Dave I can't see attendances picking up and reaching a decent average and I can't see us going on the type of run that will bring fairweathers back into the fold.
One thing you can be certain of is that there's no way Kenwright will be looking close to home when placing blame and Moyes will cop it. I think we will see a 26-27'000 game at GP this season if this style of play continues.
"Most businesses spend fortunes trying to find out how customers view their products/services more so when sales are down, Everton will be no different"
Maybe the daft pricks will have a word with the people who work the screens at the ground. They are great for showing adverts but have a thought for the fans who go down a little early to queue up to spend money on ale.
Hows about you fucking show the match instead of a fucking swirly Everton badge. Dickheads!
Maybe the daft pricks will have a word with the people who work the screens at the ground. They are great for showing adverts but have a thought for the fans who go down a little early to queue up to spend money on ale.
Hows about you fucking show the match instead of a fucking swirly Everton badge. Dickheads!
Tony,
Nice to see you've got your priorities in order!!!
Nice to see you've got your priorities in order!!!
Dave #31, you make some very valid points about the general mood among matchgoers still being overwhelmingly pro David Moyes - particularly among the diehard away support (yes, I go to lots of away games too).
You are also correct in saying that lots of Evertonians are divided on how to apportion the blame. Well, even though the Board clearly have to take most of the blame for lack of investment, don't you think that Moyes is responsible for some strange team selections, dour tactics and overly negative bearing?
I like Moyes as a person - have always respected his integrity but one thing has always puzzled me - how can a highly principled man like he put up with the crap that he is dealt by the Board without speaking out? In remaining silent he is perpetuating the cosy but unhealthy relationship with Kenwright that is dragging us down. I believe therefore that he is complicit in our demise and therefore almost as much to blame as the Board itself.
The majority of matchgoers will, I concede, not agree with me.
You are also correct in saying that lots of Evertonians are divided on how to apportion the blame. Well, even though the Board clearly have to take most of the blame for lack of investment, don't you think that Moyes is responsible for some strange team selections, dour tactics and overly negative bearing?
I like Moyes as a person - have always respected his integrity but one thing has always puzzled me - how can a highly principled man like he put up with the crap that he is dealt by the Board without speaking out? In remaining silent he is perpetuating the cosy but unhealthy relationship with Kenwright that is dragging us down. I believe therefore that he is complicit in our demise and therefore almost as much to blame as the Board itself.
The majority of matchgoers will, I concede, not agree with me.
I dont know why anyone bothers responding to Richard Dodd. Its pointless.
Tony J Williams@45
I'm glad you've mentioned on the screens. I'm sick of seeing a passage of play, usually at the opposite Park End, and, wanting to see a replay,look to the screen, which then switches to an advert for an upcoming match. I DON'T WANT TO SEE A F****** ADVERT,I WANT TO SEE WHAT HAPPENED!
Is there no-one in this club with an idea of what fans want?
Apart from a manager who will take his blinkers off for a change and a Chairman with more than a pocketfull of Zimbabwean dollars.
I'm glad you've mentioned on the screens. I'm sick of seeing a passage of play, usually at the opposite Park End, and, wanting to see a replay,look to the screen, which then switches to an advert for an upcoming match. I DON'T WANT TO SEE A F****** ADVERT,I WANT TO SEE WHAT HAPPENED!
Is there no-one in this club with an idea of what fans want?
Apart from a manager who will take his blinkers off for a change and a Chairman with more than a pocketfull of Zimbabwean dollars.
In the words of Rebecca Ferguson, a change is gonna come... and her song no goals no shots no wins can beat love. We love Everton but it's a crying shame the way we play. And nothing's free but luvvvvv..... at least she brightens up my day.
Tony J, I reckon you'd still get a vote of confidence for Moyes. Ultimitely, despite his dour tactics and the poor performances, he will probably keep us up. With Kenwright at the helm, that's all we can hope for.
So I disagree with Dave Wilson. I don't think the fan base is split on where the blame lies. I think everyone now accepts Kenwright is to blame (even Doddy doesn't defend him anymore). There are just varying amounts of blame from different sections of the fans aimed at Moyes. My main problem with Moyes is he is complicit with all of Kenwright's dealings otherwise he'd have walked.
There is only one solution now to change at Everton and that is for Kenwright to go.
So I disagree with Dave Wilson. I don't think the fan base is split on where the blame lies. I think everyone now accepts Kenwright is to blame (even Doddy doesn't defend him anymore). There are just varying amounts of blame from different sections of the fans aimed at Moyes. My main problem with Moyes is he is complicit with all of Kenwright's dealings otherwise he'd have walked.
There is only one solution now to change at Everton and that is for Kenwright to go.
You must all realise by now that doddy is a kopite and this is his hobby.
"New humbler approach" Robbie ?
Words like "Apologist" "syncophant" seem to have disappeared.
I always found it easy to be dismissive of people resorting to childish name calling. Its difficult to give a respectful answer to somebody accusing you of thinking "Moyes can do no wrong"
Maybe its just the threads I`ve been involved in , but I think its the Moyes critics who have adopted a new approach. Name calling is gradually being replaced by questions asked by people who obviously know their stuff.
Your right, My post are more measured, but the other side of the house seem to have - at least for now - stopped calling the people who dont agree with them ridiculous names like "Gollum Apologist"
They`ve upped their game, I`m just trying to up mine
Words like "Apologist" "syncophant" seem to have disappeared.
I always found it easy to be dismissive of people resorting to childish name calling. Its difficult to give a respectful answer to somebody accusing you of thinking "Moyes can do no wrong"
Maybe its just the threads I`ve been involved in , but I think its the Moyes critics who have adopted a new approach. Name calling is gradually being replaced by questions asked by people who obviously know their stuff.
Your right, My post are more measured, but the other side of the house seem to have - at least for now - stopped calling the people who dont agree with them ridiculous names like "Gollum Apologist"
They`ve upped their game, I`m just trying to up mine
I didnt see Steve`s #52 post until after I`d posted mine.
You`ve Kinda kicked my theory into touch there Steve
You`ve Kinda kicked my theory into touch there Steve
How can you be expected to create goals for strikers with two defenders in the centre of midfield?
Not just any two defenders neither but the fucking slowest ones we have!
Mind you, Cahill was fucking shocking when he came on. He didn't touch the ball once did he?
Not just any two defenders neither but the fucking slowest ones we have!
Mind you, Cahill was fucking shocking when he came on. He didn't touch the ball once did he?
Dave,
I thought we were all on the same side???
I was gonna go up the freshy for a drink next week an all.
I thought we were all on the same side???
I was gonna go up the freshy for a drink next week an all.
Craig Walker #43. Hate to say it but you are actually right.
Also felt sorry for Landon returning to the hollow shell which was once a vibrant Club.
Reminded me of the Muppet Christmas Carol where Scrooge has seen the Cratchit family environment with the Ghost of Christmas Present as a poor but loving, warm place and then returns with the final spirit to find that Tiny Tim has died.
Also felt sorry for Landon returning to the hollow shell which was once a vibrant Club.
Reminded me of the Muppet Christmas Carol where Scrooge has seen the Cratchit family environment with the Ghost of Christmas Present as a poor but loving, warm place and then returns with the final spirit to find that Tiny Tim has died.
Andy
That's a bit melodramatic considering you were in the SAS!!!
That's a bit melodramatic considering you were in the SAS!!!
Best thing to come out of this game is the revelation that Andy McNabb is a blue!
Still miffed with him for nicking my name. He even had the cheek to drop a 'b' off the end!
Maybe if I had his money I'd be buying us a striker rather than just moaning.
Maybe if I had his money I'd be buying us a striker rather than just moaning.
Or you could absail into the directors box, snatch him at gunpoint, fly Bill out to Baghdad, sell him to insurgents for a ransom then double cross them, bring the money back via the Virgin Islands, where you drop Bill off with no passport or I.D and then spend it all on Errr............... Darron Gibson.
I see that Tamworth are 35 to 1 with BetQuad online. Must be worth a punt for a team with nothing to lose against a team with nothing to give. Any takers?
May be worth five of my English pounds Dean.
BetQuad you say....
I hope BedFred by mine has such good odds.
BetQuad you say....
I hope BedFred by mine has such good odds.
Spot on Alan Clarke (#51)
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1 Posted 05/01/2012 at 05:18:08
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At least you can say you saw Howard's goal...I know that's little concelation.
Players not performing (too old), manager out of ideas and a board with no money or direction. You and the rest of us are earning loyalty points for sitting through it.