Season 2011-12
The Mail Bag
It's not all about the money
73 Comments: Last 5 home games against the might of Stoke, Norwich, Swansea, Bolton and Blackburn:
P5 W1 D2 L2 F4 A5
Those who think it's all about money must be right though eh. How could we possibly compete with the astronomical spending power of these Premier League giants in our own back yard?
Ten points dropped from these fixtures, only four goals (one which clearly should not have stood and one fluke from our keeper) from 450 minutes of football and some of the most boring, gutless, turgid displays of football I've ever witnessed, at any level of the game, and some people still think it is purely a matter of money?
God give me strength... Absolute bullshit of the highest order.
When we get beat by the likes of City, Utd, Spurs etc of course money plays a part in it. And by the way, by pointing some portion of the blame at someone other than BK for our recent pathetic displays does not mean I don't acknowledge where the main route of our problem lies.
However, when you witness the utter shite like we have in our last 5 games at Goodison, ATTITUDE has played a far greater role in our abysmal performances than a lack of money ever will.
And this stinking attitude starts with our boring, negative, one dimensional, gutless manager and has now infiltrated our entire squad.
But hey, let's give them an easy ride and hide behind the no money arguement shall we?
By doing so takes all accountability away from the manager and players alike. Until that mind-set changes, I'm afraid that we're going to be stuck with watching some of the worst displays of football any of us have ever witnessed in our lifetimes.
We deserve much much better than this, money or no money.
Jamie Sweet, Posted 23/01/2012 at
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Good post Jamie. Sums up our frustrations of the performances this season. Moyes and co have done a fantastic job at ramming down our throats the lack of funds and use it every chance they get to excuse the dross we are witnessing.
Eveyone who isnt an Evertyon supporter will still tell you how good he is, and if he had money would probably be winning trophies left, right and centre.
The truth is he is floundering like a fish out of water, and it really is starting to show through the players too. I think they are sick and tired of his whinging. Nevilles little tantrum at the end of the game saturday is just the start.
I am afraid things are going to get much worse, before they get better.
Eveyone who isnt an Evertyon supporter will still tell you how good he is, and if he had money would probably be winning trophies left, right and centre.
The truth is he is floundering like a fish out of water, and it really is starting to show through the players too. I think they are sick and tired of his whinging. Nevilles little tantrum at the end of the game saturday is just the start.
I am afraid things are going to get much worse, before they get better.
Eric Myles, you mad?
It's not just the director, manager or players in isolation. There's just a smell of decay at the club now and it's decaying top to bottom and once it sets in it's very difficult to stop. Over the years we've spent money we didn't have and it's payback time now. We need a new board, new investment, new manager, new ground and a much strngthened squad and we are not going to get any of it. I'm absolutely negative now was we see the true depth of Everton's financial woes and the club's lack of good players. I don't see Moyes as badly as his detractors do because I'm not sure that anybody could do much different with such a dire squad and lack of spending money. I genuinely see nothing but relegation now if not this year then next as the rot gets worse. The real sadness now is that the rot is setting into the club's support and that is the endgame. There is nothing positive on the horizon.
As mentioned before - several of those clubs have outspent us.
It is about the money - it's why we have to sell players and not replace them, it's why we have the smallest squad in the Prem - it;s why we have to keep playing injured and past it players week in week out.
Yes we do have some promising youngsters coming through and I am frustrated that Moyes seems unwilling to play them.
But ii is about the money
It is about the money - it's why we have to sell players and not replace them, it's why we have the smallest squad in the Prem - it;s why we have to keep playing injured and past it players week in week out.
Yes we do have some promising youngsters coming through and I am frustrated that Moyes seems unwilling to play them.
But ii is about the money
Roman, which comment do you disagree with?
Those teams have outspent us? Please tell me how much more we have spent than any of them in the last few seasons (use this as a good starting point (http://www.transferleague.co.uk/league-tables/2006-2011.html and http://www.transferleague.co.uk/transfer-fees-v-league-positions/premier-league-2007-2011.html)
or
New players cost money? Can you tell me how we can get better players than we have without buying them?
Those teams have outspent us? Please tell me how much more we have spent than any of them in the last few seasons (use this as a good starting point (http://www.transferleague.co.uk/league-tables/2006-2011.html and http://www.transferleague.co.uk/transfer-fees-v-league-positions/premier-league-2007-2011.html)
or
New players cost money? Can you tell me how we can get better players than we have without buying them?
Anyone who thinks that this exact squad of footballers should not be further up the table at this point in time despite how much many of the other teams have spent is kidding themselves. Our players are good players (mostly) and have a track record of playing good football and pulling the odd freak act out of the bag.
It's Moyes who plays the exact same tactics against every team regardless of opposition, form or location. It's Moyes who dictates that every player must be behind the ball when the opposition are in possession. It's Moyes who trains our players that the only place the ball is to be forward and on the ground is up in the corners.
Moyes. Moyes. Moyes... Out.
It's Moyes who plays the exact same tactics against every team regardless of opposition, form or location. It's Moyes who dictates that every player must be behind the ball when the opposition are in possession. It's Moyes who trains our players that the only place the ball is to be forward and on the ground is up in the corners.
Moyes. Moyes. Moyes... Out.
Eric, compare the team lists of all of those clubs. Then come back to me.
Martin #985, I'm amazed.
I actually agree with every word you said.
Roman must be right, I'm mad :-))
I actually agree with every word you said.
Roman must be right, I'm mad :-))
Lynne if you add the cost of each squad of the teams mentioned only Stoke would come close to Everton's.
We are a better team than all those mentioned and should get more from those games than we did.
We are witnessing the long goodbye.
Only Moyes knows how long but if he's still here next year there's a good few of us who won't be. This can't be allowed to happen in our position.
I expect Bill and Co. are expecting a strong second half of the season. I really can't see it coming this year.
I think we may stay up by about 7-9 points but I doubt it will be secure months before the season ends and I can't see the football getting any better either.
We are a better team than all those mentioned and should get more from those games than we did.
We are witnessing the long goodbye.
Only Moyes knows how long but if he's still here next year there's a good few of us who won't be. This can't be allowed to happen in our position.
I expect Bill and Co. are expecting a strong second half of the season. I really can't see it coming this year.
I think we may stay up by about 7-9 points but I doubt it will be secure months before the season ends and I can't see the football getting any better either.
To say that Moyes is hiding behind a lack of money is a bit rich considering the amount of stick he has had on TW for not coming out and saying that there is no money. It is only recently that he has started compaining. This in fact supports the argument that I, and others have been putting forwards for a while now that Moyes has simply given up. He has stood loyally behind his employer for a long time, in public at least, but his lack of motivation for games has had the hallmarks of someone who cannot see a way forwards for a long time. He has not become a bad manager, he is the same man that got us European qualification and a cup final, but he looks like he has lost the will, and I for one can't blame him.
So in response to the headline, yes it is. Money isn't just about new players. As anyone working for a business that is in danger of going into administration will tell you. Morale is one of the first things to go, people worry about job security, whether they will get paid or not. Standards of repair about the workplace start to fall making it even more depressing. Eventually it reaches a point were people are just going through the motions, they don't necessarily want to quit because they know how good it used to be and they hope it will be again, but right now they just hate going to work. Even the most positive of people will eventually get dragged down if they are surrounded by depression and negativity, that is what is happening at Everton, and it will only improve if we get rid of the board and get somebody competent in to take over.
So in response to the headline, yes it is. Money isn't just about new players. As anyone working for a business that is in danger of going into administration will tell you. Morale is one of the first things to go, people worry about job security, whether they will get paid or not. Standards of repair about the workplace start to fall making it even more depressing. Eventually it reaches a point were people are just going through the motions, they don't necessarily want to quit because they know how good it used to be and they hope it will be again, but right now they just hate going to work. Even the most positive of people will eventually get dragged down if they are surrounded by depression and negativity, that is what is happening at Everton, and it will only improve if we get rid of the board and get somebody competent in to take over.
I totally agree with the original post!!
Tony #982 - Did Neville through a little tantrum after the match? I was too busy trying to get out of Goodison and get a few pints down my neck after the final whistle.
Tony #982 - Did Neville through a little tantrum after the match? I was too busy trying to get out of Goodison and get a few pints down my neck after the final whistle.
I reckon we are a top 10 team at worst when everyone is motivated to perform. The only problem is the guy who has motivated them in the past to achieve that position is a shadow of the man he once was, and he needs someone to motivate him. Moyes has had enough and who can blame him? But he should recognise how he is effecting the team morale and do the decent thing before its too late.
Great minds Eric (994) that's all :-)
Were doomed.
Were doomed.
Roman, its not necessarily that we don't have decent players its that Moyes had been allowed no money (practically) to keep things fresh.
I'm not absolving Moyes of responsibility but its clear there is real staleness about our play and that in part comes from having pretty much the same players for the last 3 years, except a loan or two. And in fact from losing some of the best players from that bunch. This is not Moyes fault and is surely why we are currently so devoid of freshness and energy. The teams around us have maybe not spent hugely but have bought in new players every season.
I'm not absolving Moyes of responsibility but its clear there is real staleness about our play and that in part comes from having pretty much the same players for the last 3 years, except a loan or two. And in fact from losing some of the best players from that bunch. This is not Moyes fault and is surely why we are currently so devoid of freshness and energy. The teams around us have maybe not spent hugely but have bought in new players every season.
Very fair statements, Sam. I have always acknowledged that the board have failed us and are the biggest problem.
Money would improve things a bit, even with Moyes in charge. I just think that even with money, he would struggle to win trophies.
Money would improve things a bit, even with Moyes in charge. I just think that even with money, he would struggle to win trophies.
Forget it Sam, it is Moyes's fault, no-one else.
The players are blameless, even though they can't even do the basics anymore
The board are blameless because apparantly they have backed Moyes, perhaps even too much, that is why we are in the money (or lack of) stakes.
It couldn't be all three, Lordy no! it's just Moyes and no-one else.
The players are blameless, even though they can't even do the basics anymore
The board are blameless because apparantly they have backed Moyes, perhaps even too much, that is why we are in the money (or lack of) stakes.
It couldn't be all three, Lordy no! it's just Moyes and no-one else.
^and Sam, those decent players that have been the mainstay of the side are now 3 years older and all the wrong side of 30 with no young blood of any proven quality to replace them.
Oppose stagnation
Steve Pugh
I really hope the irony of your first sentence isnt completely lost on the usual suspects.
This is not about what we paid for players, its about their value NOW. Its about Stagnation.
Sure people will point to Bily as an example of a bad signing - which he was - but other clubs have made far greater mistakes. Hibbert, Osman, Rodwell, Anichebe, Duffy, Coleman, Howard, Velios, cost little or nothing at all.
Saha, Neville. Cahill, Distn, were all bagains, but they still cost us around 15m, trouble is, they`ve been here for years, WE HAD OUR MONEY`S WORTH !
To say they are internationals may technically true but lets be sensible here, you`d struggle to raise seven figures for the fucken lot of them.
Our players may have been superior in the teams around us, but not anymore.
Those people who claim money doesnt count are just embarresing themselves. In an attempt to slag off the manager they are arguing in the face the most overwhelming evidence. Do they really Believe the richest clubs of every league are at the top by coincidence ? ? is it an accident that the poorest finish down the bottom ? ?.
What will it take for the penny to drop ?
Forget what we used to spend. NOBODY absolutely NOBODY has spent less than us in the past 2-5 years.
This board will not be spending any money next season either, we`ll be universally acklnowledge as the premiership paupers and our position in the league will reflect that.
Moyes of course may well have done one by then and the new "Master coach" who was going to somehow inject energy and skill into the old and the not very talented will be left with the stigma of being the guy who took the great Everton down.
Smell the coffee guys, stop blaiming the guy who has to cope with the situation and turn your anger on the people who created it.
Now would be a good time
I really hope the irony of your first sentence isnt completely lost on the usual suspects.
This is not about what we paid for players, its about their value NOW. Its about Stagnation.
Sure people will point to Bily as an example of a bad signing - which he was - but other clubs have made far greater mistakes. Hibbert, Osman, Rodwell, Anichebe, Duffy, Coleman, Howard, Velios, cost little or nothing at all.
Saha, Neville. Cahill, Distn, were all bagains, but they still cost us around 15m, trouble is, they`ve been here for years, WE HAD OUR MONEY`S WORTH !
To say they are internationals may technically true but lets be sensible here, you`d struggle to raise seven figures for the fucken lot of them.
Our players may have been superior in the teams around us, but not anymore.
Those people who claim money doesnt count are just embarresing themselves. In an attempt to slag off the manager they are arguing in the face the most overwhelming evidence. Do they really Believe the richest clubs of every league are at the top by coincidence ? ? is it an accident that the poorest finish down the bottom ? ?.
What will it take for the penny to drop ?
Forget what we used to spend. NOBODY absolutely NOBODY has spent less than us in the past 2-5 years.
This board will not be spending any money next season either, we`ll be universally acklnowledge as the premiership paupers and our position in the league will reflect that.
Moyes of course may well have done one by then and the new "Master coach" who was going to somehow inject energy and skill into the old and the not very talented will be left with the stigma of being the guy who took the great Everton down.
Smell the coffee guys, stop blaiming the guy who has to cope with the situation and turn your anger on the people who created it.
Now would be a good time
Dave Wilson.
Moyes was/is party to the "situation". He was bribed with a massive contract to work under the constraints we are suffering at present.
He has supported the board and their management or lack of it, they are all culpable.
Moyes was/is party to the "situation". He was bribed with a massive contract to work under the constraints we are suffering at present.
He has supported the board and their management or lack of it, they are all culpable.
Dave, once again, your post is very good. I see it, I really do. However I also know that just because a manager puts up with the shit his board is doing does not absolve him of criticism. He's a one trick pony, and now that every horse in the show knows that same trick, a new one is required. He hasn't got it.
I also think that "cope" was a poor choice of words because... here it is, 65k a week means coping is irrelevant.
Tony J, your sarcasm is getting old. Take a leaf out of Wilson's book and use a bit of eloquence.
I also think that "cope" was a poor choice of words because... here it is, 65k a week means coping is irrelevant.
Tony J, your sarcasm is getting old. Take a leaf out of Wilson's book and use a bit of eloquence.
If the players "can't even do the basics anymore" ? then why does the latent genius that is Moyes, still pick them for a starting place?
Answer that one without having a seizure.
Never mind Moyes's flaws in both tactics and picking a first eleven. We have a manager whose main managerial skill is motivating players ? who now doesn't seem to be able to motivate a group of decent footballers.
And yet the red hand gang still want to blame it on the sunshine.
Answer that one without having a seizure.
Never mind Moyes's flaws in both tactics and picking a first eleven. We have a manager whose main managerial skill is motivating players ? who now doesn't seem to be able to motivate a group of decent footballers.
And yet the red hand gang still want to blame it on the sunshine.
Dave #015
I`ve always maintained Moyes is a hired hand, he is not one of us. He an inside view of what was going on and if the offer wasnt so lucrative he`d have probably fucked off.
He didnt turn down the unturndownable, who do you blame for that ?
The calibre of the next manager may well be decided by the salary offered, but come on Dave ; if all he`s got to work with, is this squad - a year or two older - Will it make a difference to the job he does ?
I`ve always maintained Moyes is a hired hand, he is not one of us. He an inside view of what was going on and if the offer wasnt so lucrative he`d have probably fucked off.
He didnt turn down the unturndownable, who do you blame for that ?
The calibre of the next manager may well be decided by the salary offered, but come on Dave ; if all he`s got to work with, is this squad - a year or two older - Will it make a difference to the job he does ?
I have supported and will continue to be a fan of Moyes. I think he has done fantastic work for us and although he may not be the perfect manager has worked hard and with integrity. I think he can hold his head high and get annoyed at some of the ill thought abuse he receives on here.
I also think that his departure is maybe what is needed sadly for this club to halt its decline. Maybe.
My first choice would be to see a new board or new investment but given that this looks unlikely something is needed to bring the club out it current torpor. It is easier to replace one manager than a whole team and it seems clear from our languid play that some sort of change is needed as all spark and hunger seems to have deserted us. I don't blame Moyes for this. I blame stagnation and lack of financial backing. But i do feel that something need to change and for the first time in Moyes reign i am really worried about us.
I also think that his departure is maybe what is needed sadly for this club to halt its decline. Maybe.
My first choice would be to see a new board or new investment but given that this looks unlikely something is needed to bring the club out it current torpor. It is easier to replace one manager than a whole team and it seems clear from our languid play that some sort of change is needed as all spark and hunger seems to have deserted us. I don't blame Moyes for this. I blame stagnation and lack of financial backing. But i do feel that something need to change and for the first time in Moyes reign i am really worried about us.
'Smell the coffee guys, stop blaiming the guy who has to cope with the situation and turn your anger on the people who created it.'
He doesn't just cope with them though Dave. He actively supports them.
Time and again I've read things like 'Bill's the best chairman in the world', 'he's got Evertons best interests at heart' etc.
He's their man. I wan't a new manager for lots of different reasons, but this one alone is enough for me to be glad to see the back of him.
By coming out with a great deal of rhetoric in support of the board and also slating various fan groups he has played his part maintaining the status quo. There was no need for him to do that. He effectively put the board before the club.
He was up until recently untouchable in the eyes of the matchgoing majority, unsackable. So where was his motivation for doing so?
He doesn't just cope with them though Dave. He actively supports them.
Time and again I've read things like 'Bill's the best chairman in the world', 'he's got Evertons best interests at heart' etc.
He's their man. I wan't a new manager for lots of different reasons, but this one alone is enough for me to be glad to see the back of him.
By coming out with a great deal of rhetoric in support of the board and also slating various fan groups he has played his part maintaining the status quo. There was no need for him to do that. He effectively put the board before the club.
He was up until recently untouchable in the eyes of the matchgoing majority, unsackable. So where was his motivation for doing so?
Roman, my old sarcasm is just as bad as your continualy blaming of this issue on Moyes.
They are all part of the problem, Moyes, the players and the board.
You can't separate one and absolve the other of blame.
They are all part of the problem, Moyes, the players and the board.
You can't separate one and absolve the other of blame.
I made a joke about Moyes stopping Gibson from shooting when we signed him, most of his goals have come from long range shots for Man U.
From the 2 games he has played, I don't think he has had a shot from outside the box, ( please correct me if I am wrong. )
I wonder who gave him these instructions?
From the 2 games he has played, I don't think he has had a shot from outside the box, ( please correct me if I am wrong. )
I wonder who gave him these instructions?
Tony, no absolving going on here. Only logic. Sam said it best. Something needs to change. The board are most to blame, but it's prettt obvious that they're going nowhere. The players aren't performing, but they can't all be replaced at once. The manager is the most tangible at Everton, and at any club in world football.
Sorry if our tirades against Moyes have led you to think that the MOB support the board, or don't see that they're probably biggest contributors to the problem. It's not the case.
My mates constantly bring up the fact that I used to be a massive Moyes fan. I say "I used to be." Then Wembley 2009 happened, and I began to ask questions. Since then, he's done things that have progressively dropped my opinion of the man, to the point where I honestly think he is as bad as the board.
Sorry if our tirades against Moyes have led you to think that the MOB support the board, or don't see that they're probably biggest contributors to the problem. It's not the case.
My mates constantly bring up the fact that I used to be a massive Moyes fan. I say "I used to be." Then Wembley 2009 happened, and I began to ask questions. Since then, he's done things that have progressively dropped my opinion of the man, to the point where I honestly think he is as bad as the board.
Watching Moyes just after the game on Saturday he had a blank look on his face, as if he is powerless to stop what is happening, or just resigned to his and our faith. Have supported this wonderful club for over forty years but we are on our knees
For a club to stay at the top there has to be a continuous influx of players and a continuous purging of dead wood as it becomes dead. That's what Liverpool did and that's what United do. The problem is that our squad is mainly dead wood with many who should have gone ages ago. Some say we have a good squad that just needs a good manager but I disagree and in many ways I feel sorry for Moyes. He is a genuine and honest man who has been a loyal servant for the Club and he nearly did it for us but neither he nor the team are going anywhere now. He won't walk from his contract and I don't blame him, the club doesn't have the money to pay him off and replace him and what self respecting manager would come anyway? I know we are in a desperate mess but whilst the club needs supportat times like this it is getting the opposite from many. I don't blame the protesting minority as they pay their money and they are entitled to their opinion but they are expecting and demanding that which cannot and will not be achieved. I hope that Trust Everton get up and running as I'm sure that this is the best way that we can help.
Stephen
Moyes attacking BU was ill advised, I wrote on these pages at the time that I thought he`d blotted his copy book.
but that doesnt change anything does it.
The "new guy" would still have to work with a squad thats been allowed to stagnate.
If theres a guy out there who can "motivate " some skill into the clearly not good enough, or inject some energy into the old brigade, I`m all for it.
Where do I sign ?
Moyes attacking BU was ill advised, I wrote on these pages at the time that I thought he`d blotted his copy book.
but that doesnt change anything does it.
The "new guy" would still have to work with a squad thats been allowed to stagnate.
If theres a guy out there who can "motivate " some skill into the clearly not good enough, or inject some energy into the old brigade, I`m all for it.
Where do I sign ?
Dave #11 "Those people who claim money doesnt count are just embarresing themselves."
In the famed words of Alo Alo, listen very carefully, I will say this only once.........
No one has EVER said that money doesn't count, get it?
Of course it counts, but it is not the be all and end all and it does not absolve Moyes of the mistakes he has made, his negative attitude, his terrible formations, his terrible substitutions, his everyone back for corners, his reliance on set pieces, his favoritism for certain players, his one up front, his piss poor man management of Yobo and Yak that led to them not wanting to play for him, his playing players out of position over many many years, his knife to a gun fight, his insistence that we are playing well when we obviously aren't, his decision to let Pienaar, Arteta and Beckford go, his decision to keep Anichebe then play him on the fuckin wing, his decision to keep Cahill, Saha and Neville way past their sell by days, his consistent purchasing of defensive holding midfielders, his insistence that everyone's first responsibility is to be a good defender no matter what attacking natural ability they have, his attempt to buy Robbie Savage FFS, his reluctance to play youth, his cowardice in big matches when given golden opportunities to bury any of the big teams in big games when they go down to 10 men and his record of 0 wins away at any of the big 4 established teams over 10 years of trying.
If it's all about money and not Moyes then why is it so important that we keep the miserable git?
In the famed words of Alo Alo, listen very carefully, I will say this only once.........
No one has EVER said that money doesn't count, get it?
Of course it counts, but it is not the be all and end all and it does not absolve Moyes of the mistakes he has made, his negative attitude, his terrible formations, his terrible substitutions, his everyone back for corners, his reliance on set pieces, his favoritism for certain players, his one up front, his piss poor man management of Yobo and Yak that led to them not wanting to play for him, his playing players out of position over many many years, his knife to a gun fight, his insistence that we are playing well when we obviously aren't, his decision to let Pienaar, Arteta and Beckford go, his decision to keep Anichebe then play him on the fuckin wing, his decision to keep Cahill, Saha and Neville way past their sell by days, his consistent purchasing of defensive holding midfielders, his insistence that everyone's first responsibility is to be a good defender no matter what attacking natural ability they have, his attempt to buy Robbie Savage FFS, his reluctance to play youth, his cowardice in big matches when given golden opportunities to bury any of the big teams in big games when they go down to 10 men and his record of 0 wins away at any of the big 4 established teams over 10 years of trying.
If it's all about money and not Moyes then why is it so important that we keep the miserable git?
Robbie
When you wrote the other day ;"Kenwright has had us punching above our weight by selling everything in site to give Moyes money to spend on players" . . It kinda explained a lot to me.
It explained why you think. it was Moyes`s decision to let ANYONE go.
It explained why you think there was an alternative to keeping Saha, Cahill and Neville.
It also explains why you think Moyes consistantly buys anything - other than time
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but when somebody tells me "Kenwright has had us punching above our weight" I kinda glaze over and move on to the next comment.
Hope that explains it for you too
When you wrote the other day ;"Kenwright has had us punching above our weight by selling everything in site to give Moyes money to spend on players" . . It kinda explained a lot to me.
It explained why you think. it was Moyes`s decision to let ANYONE go.
It explained why you think there was an alternative to keeping Saha, Cahill and Neville.
It also explains why you think Moyes consistantly buys anything - other than time
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but when somebody tells me "Kenwright has had us punching above our weight" I kinda glaze over and move on to the next comment.
Hope that explains it for you too
Dave,
That's true and I won't say the situations all his fault by any stretch. But by supporting the board he has gone along with the squad being stripped of talent aiding and abbetting all the way. That means I lose a bit of sympathy for him.
The squad needs freshening up no two ways. But that doesn't just come from new signings. A new approach, voice, young players getting a chance, a manager who picks players on form over reputation can and have made a difference in the past for plenty of clubs. We'd be no different.
I think there's a team in this squad thats a damn sight better than 14th. I think Moyes situation now means he won't be the man to find it.
I don't think he's a better manager now than he was 10 years ago, not even a shadow. That fella was a breath of fresh air and took a club on it's knees back to respectability.
That fella may come back with a bit of time out the game or a new challenge, but not at Everton, not IMO anyway.
We found a good manager once, why can't we do it again?
That's true and I won't say the situations all his fault by any stretch. But by supporting the board he has gone along with the squad being stripped of talent aiding and abbetting all the way. That means I lose a bit of sympathy for him.
The squad needs freshening up no two ways. But that doesn't just come from new signings. A new approach, voice, young players getting a chance, a manager who picks players on form over reputation can and have made a difference in the past for plenty of clubs. We'd be no different.
I think there's a team in this squad thats a damn sight better than 14th. I think Moyes situation now means he won't be the man to find it.
I don't think he's a better manager now than he was 10 years ago, not even a shadow. That fella was a breath of fresh air and took a club on it's knees back to respectability.
That fella may come back with a bit of time out the game or a new challenge, but not at Everton, not IMO anyway.
We found a good manager once, why can't we do it again?
Dave #40, what are you talking about?????
Kenwright has sold Everton's Assets (Bellfield, Finch Farm, Freehold to Goodison), plus mortgaged future Sky and Gate receipts to bring in money we simply did not have to fund Moyes' team building activities including some rediculous contracts to aging players, as you like to say so often FACT.
Now, let me make this clear, I do not support what Kenwright has done, that's why I support the BU and want him and the other shareholders out without a profit on their investment because they have systematically raped our great club, not invested anything into trying to build anything and contracted out our commercial activities for a pittance in return.
Therefore, believe it or not, because of the ineptitude of our board we have been punching above our weight because Moyes was spending money we did not have, or rather had not earned, therefore we have been trying to punch above our weight by using resources (money) we did not have. Moyes misused these funds and has let too many players get too old and not get rid when he could have got some decent money for them and brought in younger players, see Cahill, Neville, Saha, Jagielka.
We now have nothing to sell in terms of non playing assets and an old team that Moyes built and then kept faith in too long, whilst selling younger players for next to nothing, Pienaar, Beckford and Yak, who were all under 30.
I'm sorry, but I can't explain it any clearer than that, if you still don't get it perhaps someone else can try and explain it to you.
Kenwright has sold Everton's Assets (Bellfield, Finch Farm, Freehold to Goodison), plus mortgaged future Sky and Gate receipts to bring in money we simply did not have to fund Moyes' team building activities including some rediculous contracts to aging players, as you like to say so often FACT.
Now, let me make this clear, I do not support what Kenwright has done, that's why I support the BU and want him and the other shareholders out without a profit on their investment because they have systematically raped our great club, not invested anything into trying to build anything and contracted out our commercial activities for a pittance in return.
Therefore, believe it or not, because of the ineptitude of our board we have been punching above our weight because Moyes was spending money we did not have, or rather had not earned, therefore we have been trying to punch above our weight by using resources (money) we did not have. Moyes misused these funds and has let too many players get too old and not get rid when he could have got some decent money for them and brought in younger players, see Cahill, Neville, Saha, Jagielka.
We now have nothing to sell in terms of non playing assets and an old team that Moyes built and then kept faith in too long, whilst selling younger players for next to nothing, Pienaar, Beckford and Yak, who were all under 30.
I'm sorry, but I can't explain it any clearer than that, if you still don't get it perhaps someone else can try and explain it to you.
"We found a good manager once, why can't we do it again?"
I agree but when Moyes came in, our debt wasn't as bad as it is now. We had some money to spend on players.
I really feel sorry for the next fella, no money, old squad and unrreasonable expections. God help him!
I agree but when Moyes came in, our debt wasn't as bad as it is now. We had some money to spend on players.
I really feel sorry for the next fella, no money, old squad and unrreasonable expections. God help him!
"Kenwright has sold Everton's Assets (Bellfield, Finch Farm, Freehold to Goodison), plus mortgaged future Sky and Gate receipts to bring in money we simply did not have to fund Moyes' team building activities including some rediculous contracts to aging players, as you like to say so often FACT" and has probably made it all back again through players sales with no replacements.
An initial input of money to buy Yakubu probably and the rest of the transfers have been paid for by player sales.
An initial input of money to buy Yakubu probably and the rest of the transfers have been paid for by player sales.
Oh dear Robbie you really havent been paying attention have you ?
SO ;Kenwright bankrolled Moyes in the tranfer market by selling everything ?
I hate to tell you this mate but it was the other way around. Moyes`s is actually one of few managers who is in the black with his transfer dealings. KENWRIGHT HASNT EVEN GIVEN HIM THE FUNDS HE`S RAISED.
Kenwright sold all our assets to keep the clubs head above water. He bought the club seemingly unaware that it costs money to actually run it.
Supporter of BU ? You might want to try understand what they are about first mate. I dont think you`ll find a single member who see`s Kenwright as the guy who has us "punching above our weight"
SO ;Kenwright bankrolled Moyes in the tranfer market by selling everything ?
I hate to tell you this mate but it was the other way around. Moyes`s is actually one of few managers who is in the black with his transfer dealings. KENWRIGHT HASNT EVEN GIVEN HIM THE FUNDS HE`S RAISED.
Kenwright sold all our assets to keep the clubs head above water. He bought the club seemingly unaware that it costs money to actually run it.
Supporter of BU ? You might want to try understand what they are about first mate. I dont think you`ll find a single member who see`s Kenwright as the guy who has us "punching above our weight"
Tony,
I think the next fella's onto a winner all the way TBH.
Take Neville and Louis HAHA out the side and we look to have a good mix of youth and experience.
Plus Barkley, Duffy and other players coming through or just through that look to have the makings of good PL players and it's not a bad job.
I think the next fella's onto a winner all the way TBH.
Take Neville and Louis HAHA out the side and we look to have a good mix of youth and experience.
Plus Barkley, Duffy and other players coming through or just through that look to have the makings of good PL players and it's not a bad job.
We need to sell to buy so like it or not we would need to sell someone for good money in order to bring in some fresh faces.
We had the chance to sell the likes of Cahill, Jags, Neville, and a few others before but didn't take them. Whether this was because Moyes was not sure the cash would go to him or the bank or didn't want to sell his favourites, I dont know. But either way, most of these players could have been sold without effecting the way we have played or the results we've had this season - they've done pretty much f'all all season.
If we had a new man in, with fresh ideas and approach - first thing for me would be to get rid of Jags and Fellaini for around 20-25m in total as well as let the likes of Neville, Saha, Cahill leave on frees to free up the wage bill. With the 20m(ish) and massive savings on wages, we should be able to bring in 6-7 players to add to the squad if we buy wisely. There are 120 odd prem players whose contracts end this season, nevermind players from abroad and in leagues below. E.g. the likes of Rodallega would be great.
The new players may not set the world on fire but the likes of Norwich and Swansea demonstrate that you can get decent players in without paying stupid money.
Would not have us winning the championship anytime soon but would at least hopefully steady the ship and start to turn things round. Cannot be worse that it is now!
I know its not that easy but we really do need to start getting the older/higher earners off the sage bill, especially as they are doing f'all at the moment anyway.
Get to the end of the season and have massive clear our. I'll cry if Neville or Saha are given a contract exptensions.
We had the chance to sell the likes of Cahill, Jags, Neville, and a few others before but didn't take them. Whether this was because Moyes was not sure the cash would go to him or the bank or didn't want to sell his favourites, I dont know. But either way, most of these players could have been sold without effecting the way we have played or the results we've had this season - they've done pretty much f'all all season.
If we had a new man in, with fresh ideas and approach - first thing for me would be to get rid of Jags and Fellaini for around 20-25m in total as well as let the likes of Neville, Saha, Cahill leave on frees to free up the wage bill. With the 20m(ish) and massive savings on wages, we should be able to bring in 6-7 players to add to the squad if we buy wisely. There are 120 odd prem players whose contracts end this season, nevermind players from abroad and in leagues below. E.g. the likes of Rodallega would be great.
The new players may not set the world on fire but the likes of Norwich and Swansea demonstrate that you can get decent players in without paying stupid money.
Would not have us winning the championship anytime soon but would at least hopefully steady the ship and start to turn things round. Cannot be worse that it is now!
I know its not that easy but we really do need to start getting the older/higher earners off the sage bill, especially as they are doing f'all at the moment anyway.
Get to the end of the season and have massive clear our. I'll cry if Neville or Saha are given a contract exptensions.
Dave, i'm a Moyes fan and usually arguing for him but surely you have to admit that things have gone a touch stale. Not through any fault of his (i blame the board 100%) but stale nonetheless. I am not the advocate of change just for change's sake but i think that for both the club and Moyes' sake a change of manager may not be a bad idea. I think the players are better than they are playing at the moment and sometimes a new face is required to add fresh impetus.
It has to be Moyes and his lack of motivation. How can we have any motivation if the same old players are being picked even when they are clearly not up to snuff anymore.
Until Moyes goes the same scenario will exist for every game.
Until Moyes goes the same scenario will exist for every game.
Denis, i agree. A turnaround is needed that requires some bold action.
Hopefully we make the end of the season still in the premiership. Its then time to try and shift some of the big earners and ageing pros to make way for our good youngsters coming through and a smattering of free transfers and hungry championship players.
Swansea and Norwich have shown that cheap hungry players (like Joe Allen, Scott Sinclair Danny Graham, Grant Holt and Pilkington) can be found in the league.
We badly need some fresh blood and new hunger.
Hopefully we make the end of the season still in the premiership. Its then time to try and shift some of the big earners and ageing pros to make way for our good youngsters coming through and a smattering of free transfers and hungry championship players.
Swansea and Norwich have shown that cheap hungry players (like Joe Allen, Scott Sinclair Danny Graham, Grant Holt and Pilkington) can be found in the league.
We badly need some fresh blood and new hunger.
We can get new good players by selling our crap ones and re-investing like every other team in the league does who's fans and manager don't have a 'selling club' complex. Bily should be out the door, Saha should have been when Turkey came calling, Fellaini should have gone and in all honesty Jagielka was good value for money considering how dire he was playing. Our players that were sold were sold for far too little. Arteta who had just signed a 5 year deal for only 10 million?! Pienaar for 3 million? Beckford for 4 million? Liverpool got that for Ngog whilst we let Yakubu go for 2!
We should have sold some of the aforementioned players at their proper value and sold some of the expensive deadwood we have now to bring in fresh young QUICK blood. Fellaini, Bilyaletdinov, Saha, Neville, Cahill - they're all too slow for the premier league.
Newcastle sold their three best players in the summer and only reinvested a portion of the profits into a team that is now far superior to ours - that's what Moyes did after Rooney - that's what dalglish has failed to do after Torres and it's what Fergie does all the time.
Yet for some reason as soon as we sell anyone half decent we get lambasted by the media, the manager and a large portion of the fans for being a 'selling club'. I'd rather sell the entire first team squad apart from Baines, Ossman, Coleman and the youngsters and just start again, rather that then watch this depressing lot just get worse and worse - least we tied Fellaini to a 5 year deal though on proper wages, no one can call us a selling club now hey?
We should have sold some of the aforementioned players at their proper value and sold some of the expensive deadwood we have now to bring in fresh young QUICK blood. Fellaini, Bilyaletdinov, Saha, Neville, Cahill - they're all too slow for the premier league.
Newcastle sold their three best players in the summer and only reinvested a portion of the profits into a team that is now far superior to ours - that's what Moyes did after Rooney - that's what dalglish has failed to do after Torres and it's what Fergie does all the time.
Yet for some reason as soon as we sell anyone half decent we get lambasted by the media, the manager and a large portion of the fans for being a 'selling club'. I'd rather sell the entire first team squad apart from Baines, Ossman, Coleman and the youngsters and just start again, rather that then watch this depressing lot just get worse and worse - least we tied Fellaini to a 5 year deal though on proper wages, no one can call us a selling club now hey?
Scored 4 column says it all. We are simply set up too negative by Moyes. He does have some useful players and has failed to use them correctly.
Sure Moyes could use more money but his Failings are not because of a lack of it. He is tactically obsolete.
Sure Moyes could use more money but his Failings are not because of a lack of it. He is tactically obsolete.
Hearing about the spat between Neville and Moyes. Had left my seat to get to the pub to take my anaesthetic cum antidote. Anybody got any details on this? Can we read anyhthing into it?
Kevin 028 ? the same guy who made Arteta go for the first man on corners, and we moaned, now he is spot on the box for Arsenal, Ginger Nut.
Dave Wilson.
Agree mate to certain extent.
But Moyes in his silence and backing of the board has betrayed every supporter IMO.
We have a lot of young talent in this squad and his refusal to even consider them for a starting place is criminal considering what we are witnessing on the playing field at present.
I honestly think another manager would achieve better results than Moyes but at this stage of the season sacking him would be paramount to suicide.
I still believe he will keep us up (I keep repeating that to myself in the hope I am right). But come the end of the season he must leave of his own accord.
Agree mate to certain extent.
But Moyes in his silence and backing of the board has betrayed every supporter IMO.
We have a lot of young talent in this squad and his refusal to even consider them for a starting place is criminal considering what we are witnessing on the playing field at present.
I honestly think another manager would achieve better results than Moyes but at this stage of the season sacking him would be paramount to suicide.
I still believe he will keep us up (I keep repeating that to myself in the hope I am right). But come the end of the season he must leave of his own accord.
Kevin, 028.
Gibson took a free kick in the second half.
Baines should have taken it.
But your still right - Moyes appears to stifle players' natural instincts.
Coleman lloked a better prospect than Bale 2 years back.
Rodwell looks great playing for the U21's and Bilya has been totally wasted at Everton.
Gibson took a free kick in the second half.
Baines should have taken it.
But your still right - Moyes appears to stifle players' natural instincts.
Coleman lloked a better prospect than Bale 2 years back.
Rodwell looks great playing for the U21's and Bilya has been totally wasted at Everton.
Sam Hoare.. If he needs a lift to the airport, I will do it for free...
Sam # 080...Let's fuckin hope so eh...!!
BK must have had another demand in the post ?
Danny #999... I didn't see it myself either, but apparently Moyes was slapping all the players on the back as they passed him to go in, and when it got to Nev he slapped Moyes hand away... Hibbo plays against Fulham then!
James and Denis, that's all well and good if the money from their sales end up with the manager to buy new players.
There has been no evidence of that for almost 3 years now.
There has been no evidence of that for almost 3 years now.
Mark 082 - Look at Rodwell in the last England game. He was box to box, always 1st option for the man with the ball. I have never seen him like that for Everton. Granted better players around him for England, bit Moyes makes him 'do a job' and stiffles his ability and talent....
apparently Bily going back to russia 2.5 million FFS that will keep the bank happy til March
The fact Moyes still picks Saha tells you Moyes has lost the plot.
What annoys me the most is we are selling players for low prices and not bringing anybody in. Why did we sell Beckford, Yakubu and Arteta at the end of the summer transfer window? Why did we keep Pienaar in the summer of 2010 if he he didn't want to stay? We could of sold him for around £6 million? Why didn't we sell Billy in the summer when we could of got a decent fee?
I think we will be relegated this season or next season and it will all be Moyes's fault. At the moment, I can't see us getting a result against the likes of City, Liverpool and Chelsea. The problem is that, while Moyes has always played negative football, but now he can't rely on a decent defence to get us results. Take a look at the 3 goals we conceded against Chelsea ? all were stupid defensive errors.
Our football is unattractive and ineffective. Why was Saha kept and Beckford and Yakubu sold? ? it makes no sense... As far as I'm concerned, once a club starts selling their best players and bringing in nobody they are going to end up getting relegated. People say we need to save money but, if a club like Everton get relegated, I don't believe we'll be able to win promotion. Moyes doesn't care about the club, he still gets paid 70 grand a week; neither do the board.
I think we will be relegated this season or next season and it will all be Moyes's fault. At the moment, I can't see us getting a result against the likes of City, Liverpool and Chelsea. The problem is that, while Moyes has always played negative football, but now he can't rely on a decent defence to get us results. Take a look at the 3 goals we conceded against Chelsea ? all were stupid defensive errors.
Our football is unattractive and ineffective. Why was Saha kept and Beckford and Yakubu sold? ? it makes no sense... As far as I'm concerned, once a club starts selling their best players and bringing in nobody they are going to end up getting relegated. People say we need to save money but, if a club like Everton get relegated, I don't believe we'll be able to win promotion. Moyes doesn't care about the club, he still gets paid 70 grand a week; neither do the board.
Tony @103 - fair point but I believe we wasted some oppotunities to get rid of the high earners we have for relatively good prices. Large offer for Jags, Sunderland were interested in Cahill, some turkish club for Saha, Spurs came in for Neville last Jan (fuck knows why) etc. We don't know how much needs to go to the bank but we're not doing ourselves any favours in turning down decent offers for players who should be moved on. (Neville has been crap for a long time, Cahill started going downhill last season, same with Saha, the offer from Arsenal for Jags really should have been taken etc).
I also dont know why we never seem to be able to sign anyone until the last day of the transfer window, if at all. There are so many players on frees every year but we never seem to get any of them other than the odd Lucas Neill or Lars fucking Jacobson! We should be signing players up now so that they can join in June and get a proper pre-season.
The above is probably due to the board telling Moyes there's absolutely no cash - not even for frees (yes I know the players get signing on fees but if the player aint that great the fees cant be that high), if thats the case why does Moyes not make a real public fuss about it and say that its unnacceptable? Most other managers would have declared that they can't do their job properly under these conditions and taken the board to task about it - he seems to accept it and then just sulk, with the odd veiled moan here and there.
As I've said in numerous posts, either put up or shut up. If you dont like it then leave or at try to be positive and get the players going! The main failings are with the board but if Moyes came out and put pressure on them (rather than complying with them), then a change would probably come about faster - or at least it would scare the board into doing something. However, whilst his crippling style of football sneaks us over the relegation safety line, the board are happy with the status quo.
Will be an interesting summer. I think we will scrape together the 11-12 points we need to avoid the drop but its going to go to the wire given the fixtures we have in Feb and March. After that, we'll see what our fantastic manager does.
If he signs an extension knowing he wont get any cash backing from the board, I would then really like to see what his backers will say. Until then, I guess there are currently 65,000 reasons a week for not standing up to the board.....
I also dont know why we never seem to be able to sign anyone until the last day of the transfer window, if at all. There are so many players on frees every year but we never seem to get any of them other than the odd Lucas Neill or Lars fucking Jacobson! We should be signing players up now so that they can join in June and get a proper pre-season.
The above is probably due to the board telling Moyes there's absolutely no cash - not even for frees (yes I know the players get signing on fees but if the player aint that great the fees cant be that high), if thats the case why does Moyes not make a real public fuss about it and say that its unnacceptable? Most other managers would have declared that they can't do their job properly under these conditions and taken the board to task about it - he seems to accept it and then just sulk, with the odd veiled moan here and there.
As I've said in numerous posts, either put up or shut up. If you dont like it then leave or at try to be positive and get the players going! The main failings are with the board but if Moyes came out and put pressure on them (rather than complying with them), then a change would probably come about faster - or at least it would scare the board into doing something. However, whilst his crippling style of football sneaks us over the relegation safety line, the board are happy with the status quo.
Will be an interesting summer. I think we will scrape together the 11-12 points we need to avoid the drop but its going to go to the wire given the fixtures we have in Feb and March. After that, we'll see what our fantastic manager does.
If he signs an extension knowing he wont get any cash backing from the board, I would then really like to see what his backers will say. Until then, I guess there are currently 65,000 reasons a week for not standing up to the board.....
Agree with Denis #172. My view is that Moyes has been complicit with the Board by not banging down the door when forced to sell certain players. A man of integrity in so many ways, he seems to put up with all the shit thrown at him by the Board. I realise it must be hard to threaten to resign when you're on £65k a week but that's exactly what I would have expected of him. If he goes along with the situation, then "put up and shut up" and don't moan about lack of finances.
Oh Dear Dave, once again you have reverted to type and misquoted me with your blinkered view of the world, and incidentally not responded to any of the other accusations I have laid at Moyes' feet, therefore you presumably accept them as being true and can't defend him, so you have to revert to misquoting tactics. For clarification I will repeat, just for those in the class who aren't paying attention, yep that's you at the back with the glazed look and the pencil up your nose.
"....... To fund Moyes' team building activities including some rediculous contracts to aging players, as you like to say so often FACT."
Key point you glazed over here was the rediculous contracts to aging players. This means that we punched above our weight by spending money we did not have on paying aging players ludicrous sums of money in the twilight of their career when they would by definition not be as good as they were when younger and therefore their value for money was much much lower. In addition to this, we would forgo any small on fees. Gross mismanagement.
The cost of players is not just their transfer fee, it is their salary, total cost of ownership, bit like buying a Ferrari with every penny you had available and then selling the house, furniture, family jewels etc. to run the bloody thing, punching above your weight financially. Moyes then compounds the error by keeping said Ferrari too long, it's now rusted, ckeeps breaking down, costs a bleeding fortune to run and has been taken over by newer models, including run of the mill Fords.
This was Moyes' responsibility to make sure it didn't happen, he fucked up big time, and compounded his errors by selling the better younger players for next to nothing. QPR have been told to stump up 6 million for Pienaar. Moyes is guilty of gross dereliction of duty, and that is before you even consider the utter shite on display, which now almost everyone agrees is shite, but some like me and Marshy have been saying has been going on for years, just that the results clouded too many fans vision, now that the results have dried up the emperors new clothes have been exposed, and some people are feeling pretty stupid about it and refusing to open their eyes, you being the biggest example.
"....... To fund Moyes' team building activities including some rediculous contracts to aging players, as you like to say so often FACT."
Key point you glazed over here was the rediculous contracts to aging players. This means that we punched above our weight by spending money we did not have on paying aging players ludicrous sums of money in the twilight of their career when they would by definition not be as good as they were when younger and therefore their value for money was much much lower. In addition to this, we would forgo any small on fees. Gross mismanagement.
The cost of players is not just their transfer fee, it is their salary, total cost of ownership, bit like buying a Ferrari with every penny you had available and then selling the house, furniture, family jewels etc. to run the bloody thing, punching above your weight financially. Moyes then compounds the error by keeping said Ferrari too long, it's now rusted, ckeeps breaking down, costs a bleeding fortune to run and has been taken over by newer models, including run of the mill Fords.
This was Moyes' responsibility to make sure it didn't happen, he fucked up big time, and compounded his errors by selling the better younger players for next to nothing. QPR have been told to stump up 6 million for Pienaar. Moyes is guilty of gross dereliction of duty, and that is before you even consider the utter shite on display, which now almost everyone agrees is shite, but some like me and Marshy have been saying has been going on for years, just that the results clouded too many fans vision, now that the results have dried up the emperors new clothes have been exposed, and some people are feeling pretty stupid about it and refusing to open their eyes, you being the biggest example.
No Robbie I havent misquoted you, or taken your comments out of context.
Article ;Carpe Diem. Post 282.
You accused Mike of being "Naive in the extreme" and told him "The truth of the matter is, Kenwright has had us punching above our weight by selling everything in sit to give Moyes money to spend on players like . . ."
before you accuse me of misquoting you I suggest you go back and check. Its there in black and white.
Article ;Carpe Diem. Post 282.
You accused Mike of being "Naive in the extreme" and told him "The truth of the matter is, Kenwright has had us punching above our weight by selling everything in sit to give Moyes money to spend on players like . . ."
before you accuse me of misquoting you I suggest you go back and check. Its there in black and white.
I'd like to ask if anyone on this thread has ever played for a coach/manager who doesn't drop players no matter how bad their perfornances are. I have and I've been on both sides of the selection room at some point in the same situation.
It is the worst thing for the good of the team. When the coach won't drop you, you get complacent. I did. When the coach won't select you but plays a bloke who's gone to shit in your place, you stop putting in that extra effort, and then the cycle continues.
As I said, I've personally been in both situations, so can see why most of our players are playing the way they are.
It is the worst thing for the good of the team. When the coach won't drop you, you get complacent. I did. When the coach won't select you but plays a bloke who's gone to shit in your place, you stop putting in that extra effort, and then the cycle continues.
As I said, I've personally been in both situations, so can see why most of our players are playing the way they are.
Someone said on the radio the other day that the entire Swansea team was bought for less than we paid for Fellaini.
As has been said by others, lack of money is no excuse for the total paucity of tactical nous being shown by Moyes in every home game now.
I don't think we will be relegated this season but I fear for next season.
Irrespective of the problems at board level, a change of thinking is needed on the pitch and I am afraid the current boss deosn't look like the man to inspire it.
As has been said by others, lack of money is no excuse for the total paucity of tactical nous being shown by Moyes in every home game now.
I don't think we will be relegated this season but I fear for next season.
Irrespective of the problems at board level, a change of thinking is needed on the pitch and I am afraid the current boss deosn't look like the man to inspire it.
I genuinely can't believe that some people can sit and watch those last 5 home games, and still not concede that maybe, just maybe, there is someone on this planet who could do a better job with this squad than Moyes .
Someone with a fresh approach, who employs more inventive tactics, who encourages a team to get bodies in the box when attacking, who approaches the game of football with some level of enthusiansm and positivity, who would kick under performaing players up the arse, who might be willing to take a gamble on a couple of young and gifted players.
Yes the board are mostly to blame, I acknowledged this in my OP. But this does not leave Moyes, or the players completely blameless.
If this game of football was purely down to money and nothing else, then how on earth did Sunderland beat Man City?
Could it be that they brought in a new, exciting, enthusiastic manager who re-ignited a spark in an underperforming squad, took a gamble on youth (James McClean), and just freshened the whole place up a bit?
Yes, a change would be a risk, but the way I see it, things really can't get much worse!
Someone with a fresh approach, who employs more inventive tactics, who encourages a team to get bodies in the box when attacking, who approaches the game of football with some level of enthusiansm and positivity, who would kick under performaing players up the arse, who might be willing to take a gamble on a couple of young and gifted players.
Yes the board are mostly to blame, I acknowledged this in my OP. But this does not leave Moyes, or the players completely blameless.
If this game of football was purely down to money and nothing else, then how on earth did Sunderland beat Man City?
Could it be that they brought in a new, exciting, enthusiastic manager who re-ignited a spark in an underperforming squad, took a gamble on youth (James McClean), and just freshened the whole place up a bit?
Yes, a change would be a risk, but the way I see it, things really can't get much worse!
Roman #029 "players aren't performing, but they can't all be replaced at once."
Why is that then? Why can't we just bring in better players to replace them?
Why is that then? Why can't we just bring in better players to replace them?
Jamie @313. You are right, and it is not just the last 5 home games.
This blinkered, illogical assertion that any one other than Moyes will be a disaster reminds me of the "proverbial deer in the headlights". I'm sad to say they don't know whether to shit or fart!
How many times does it need to be said. Moyes is a decent bloke, he started well and did his best. He's now had his chance, far longer than just about any manager in the Premier League. The underlying trend is a downward spiral, Moyes and the rest of the management and backroom staff are clearly stale, out of ideas and lacking any basic motivational skills.
Simple, this era has come to an end. Get over it and move on.
This blinkered, illogical assertion that any one other than Moyes will be a disaster reminds me of the "proverbial deer in the headlights". I'm sad to say they don't know whether to shit or fart!
How many times does it need to be said. Moyes is a decent bloke, he started well and did his best. He's now had his chance, far longer than just about any manager in the Premier League. The underlying trend is a downward spiral, Moyes and the rest of the management and backroom staff are clearly stale, out of ideas and lacking any basic motivational skills.
Simple, this era has come to an end. Get over it and move on.
Denis #52 "Would not have us winning the championship anytime soon" Freudian Slip there perhaps?
Sam #055, don't you think a new manager might want to bring in a few new players of his own choosing rather than try to polish the turd he inherits?
I can just see the job description, 'pull rabbits out of hats, using the white mice we have while making them look like thoroughbred Angorra bunnies'
Sam #055, don't you think a new manager might want to bring in a few new players of his own choosing rather than try to polish the turd he inherits?
I can just see the job description, 'pull rabbits out of hats, using the white mice we have while making them look like thoroughbred Angorra bunnies'
There's an old saying that a manager has to very good or very lucky to succeed. The best managers are both.
In Moyes early days, the PL was going through a period of 3 team domination. Man U and Arsenal were usually favs for the league and Chelsea were coming on strong with the Russian gangster's money. Liverpool were in turmoil, City and Spurs nowhere so when we got to the magical 4th place, suddenly DM was the Messiah.
The game at Arsenal should have woken us up, a 7-0 thrashing, something even Smith, Walker, Bingham, Lee and Harvey never even came close to. The run up to the season's finale was abysmal, it's only because Liverpool were so bad that we weren't caught. Reality kicked in the next season. Motivation wasn't enough on it's own for success and we were heavily battered in the UEFA. So Moyes was given money to spend, money we couldn't really afford and he continued splashing out, breaking the transfer record almost every season and just like O'Leary at Leeds, he failed. His luck has finally ran out and although we have a squad packed with internationals, he can't motivate anymore and his obvious lack of tactical knowledge of how the game should be played, leads me to believe that Alan Irvine was more influential than we all thought. So in my view, before it's too late, he has to be brought back as assistant and that useless twat who took the Skunks down fucked off, or Moyes himself needs replacing
In Moyes early days, the PL was going through a period of 3 team domination. Man U and Arsenal were usually favs for the league and Chelsea were coming on strong with the Russian gangster's money. Liverpool were in turmoil, City and Spurs nowhere so when we got to the magical 4th place, suddenly DM was the Messiah.
The game at Arsenal should have woken us up, a 7-0 thrashing, something even Smith, Walker, Bingham, Lee and Harvey never even came close to. The run up to the season's finale was abysmal, it's only because Liverpool were so bad that we weren't caught. Reality kicked in the next season. Motivation wasn't enough on it's own for success and we were heavily battered in the UEFA. So Moyes was given money to spend, money we couldn't really afford and he continued splashing out, breaking the transfer record almost every season and just like O'Leary at Leeds, he failed. His luck has finally ran out and although we have a squad packed with internationals, he can't motivate anymore and his obvious lack of tactical knowledge of how the game should be played, leads me to believe that Alan Irvine was more influential than we all thought. So in my view, before it's too late, he has to be brought back as assistant and that useless twat who took the Skunks down fucked off, or Moyes himself needs replacing
If we get taken over buy a big Billionaire *Dreams!!
Id give Moyes 6 Months!!
Id give Moyes 6 Months!!
*By
Tom, let's get real, we're not likely to get taken over by anyone for a long long time, so it has to be down to the ability of the manager to produce the goods. The raw materials are there i.e. a squad of decent young players and full and U21 internationals and as a lover of Everton FC I don't care if it's David Moyes, Brendan Rogers, Ken Dodd, Nick Clegg or Pol Pot who's in charge, as long as they are doing everything in their power to improve our club, I will back them to the hilt. When I see the team playing the same failing system week in week out and the stubborn, arrogant pig headed boss telling us how bad we are but doing nothing to alter things then I can't support him anymore than I could LFC
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977 Posted 23/01/2012 at 04:35:35
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All the teams you mention HAVE outspent us in the last 2 or 3 seasons.
"50 minutes of football and some of the most boring, gutless, turgid displays of football I've ever witnessed"
How are we going to get better players without money?