Season 2011-12
The Mail Bag
Undisclosed...
31 Comments: Just reading the report concerning the sale of Bily to Spartak Moscow, and once again the club has announced a sale for an 'Undisclosed' amount. Given all the financial machinations in football, I am wondering why on earth the governing bodies do not insist that ALL fees be fully disclosed - especialy concerning Agent Fees, Purchase Price and Signing On Fees.
Such a level of transparency would put paid to the sort of public relations issues EFC currently have with the Blue Union, disputing transfer monies etc, and would possibly help in situations such as the Harry Redknapp case currently. For example, does DM receive a slice for this sale? Does he likewise have to pay a slice when he sells a player for less than he bought him?
I think that this level of transparency would improve not only the fans' understanding of what goes on, but also avoid some of the 'under the table' stuff which may go on.
Rupert Sullivan, Posted 25/01/2012 at 16:42:55
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Rupert, you do realise that a company's set of accounts are audited? You know what this means, right? Or are you suggesting that the auditors would be complicit in the 'under the table' stuff you mention?
The money will be ring fenced. (in other words buried in in Bills back garden under his money tree) Joking apart I agree prices instantly go up when they hear we have made a fortune on selling a player.
Can see your point, the MLS have all their players wages available online.
Jamie, you're probably right. Why would we release how much we've got for him when we're after signing someone else?
We don't want anyone knowing how much we have to spend.
The price will come out eventually.
We don't want anyone knowing how much we have to spend.
The price will come out eventually.
Who really cares except the tax man?
We either have money to spend or we don't.
It's obvious we haven't had for a long time not since Moyes wasted millions on the likes of Bily and Fellaini to name but 2 of his bad buys.
Let's get back to producing our own talent and screw the overpriced prima donnas who are coming to the premiership,milking it for all it's worth and then shipping out without having really contributed for the big money they have been getting.
We either have money to spend or we don't.
It's obvious we haven't had for a long time not since Moyes wasted millions on the likes of Bily and Fellaini to name but 2 of his bad buys.
Let's get back to producing our own talent and screw the overpriced prima donnas who are coming to the premiership,milking it for all it's worth and then shipping out without having really contributed for the big money they have been getting.
TB 786 - Let's get back to producing our own talent - agreed - such as Barkley & Rodwell.
& screw the overpriced prima donnas who are milking us.!!
It's because of these prima donnas that we are in this mess and having to flog our 'own talent' to pay for being screwed.
& screw the overpriced prima donnas who are milking us.!!
It's because of these prima donnas that we are in this mess and having to flog our 'own talent' to pay for being screwed.
Every player we have sold and bought for the last few years seems to be for an undisclosed fee. Probably to mask the fact we get sod all for for the players we sold and to cover the backlash (if they can get anymore) they would get for not spending what we think they should be getting for the player
It's quite simple, if us fans do not know the fee we then do not know how much has gone to line kenwrights pocket!!!
Let's just worry about how the next due bill will be paid. EFC is down to selling the only assets left, players.
We have to get thru this season staying up.
Kenright and Green Out!
We have to get thru this season staying up.
Kenright and Green Out!
Kevin 808; I don't for one minute think that BK is even on or anywhere near the top of the food chain for where the money goes which is 1)Taxman 2) Banks 3) Other Secured Creditors...all the way down to the guy who cuts the grass aka a worker for wages, who is at the bottom and gets jack shit when it all goes belly up, no change there then!
Oh and I think the officially appointed Receiver is up at 1a with the tax man...well they don't work for nowt y'know. And no I'm not saying we will, are, shall, need a receiver... though we could do with a couple of quarterbacks and wide receivers.
Oh and I think the officially appointed Receiver is up at 1a with the tax man...well they don't work for nowt y'know. And no I'm not saying we will, are, shall, need a receiver... though we could do with a couple of quarterbacks and wide receivers.
James;842 Bily an asset?? just proof that the ' there's always a bigger fool out there.' rule is alive and well.Now where's the one who want to buy us??
Derek (844) - (Does anyone know why these numbers like 844 and 842 are attached to the posts?).
Yes, money being money, Bily was an "asset".
Listen, anyway you know to get Russian league football on TV? I'm anxious to see Bily's offensive genius turned loose now he's away from Moyes stifling influence.
Look out Europe 2012. Russia will now have a fit, stuck-in, attacking gem in Bily.
What? You don't believe me? Come on in to ToffeeWeb and listen how Bily's gifts were undone by Davy Moyes.
Fucking Moyes.
Yes, money being money, Bily was an "asset".
Listen, anyway you know to get Russian league football on TV? I'm anxious to see Bily's offensive genius turned loose now he's away from Moyes stifling influence.
Look out Europe 2012. Russia will now have a fit, stuck-in, attacking gem in Bily.
What? You don't believe me? Come on in to ToffeeWeb and listen how Bily's gifts were undone by Davy Moyes.
Fucking Moyes.
The reason the fee is not disclosed is because we paid £10 million for a player that Gus Hiddink recommended to Moyes, that has turned out badly. Moyes and our chairman would be a laughing stock if the paltry fee we got (could be less than £3 million) was disclosed.
Would any new owners trust Moyes with their money??? ANSWER: NO!
Would any new owners trust Moyes with their money??? ANSWER: NO!
Gus Hiddinnk recommended Bily as he is a very good player, and of course Gus would not have tried to turn this attacking midfielder into a fucking winger. From archive footage of Bily, you will see he actually can play and in the centre where he actually carries the ball forward, plays cute 1-2s, can pick out a fucking pass, has a great shot and looks to be two-footed.
The 4-5-1 system killed Bily ? just as it is killing the club. Put a defensive minded manager in like Moyes and Gordon Lee and players such as your Duncan McKenzies and Bily's get shipped out. We paid an inflated price for Bily from the Lescott money so let's not dwell on whether we made a profit or loss.
The 4-5-1 system killed Bily ? just as it is killing the club. Put a defensive minded manager in like Moyes and Gordon Lee and players such as your Duncan McKenzies and Bily's get shipped out. We paid an inflated price for Bily from the Lescott money so let's not dwell on whether we made a profit or loss.
Anto (853)
If he was that good why did no other club in England or any other major league sign him? He clearly wasn?t suited to the premiership. Moving a player from the wing to 'the hole' doesn?t suddenly make him David Silva.
"The 4-5-1 system killed Billy ? just as it is killing the club."
Ah that?s what?s killing the club, there's me thinking it was the inept board that are running us into the ground by selling off all are assets including any half decent players we have.
If he was that good why did no other club in England or any other major league sign him? He clearly wasn?t suited to the premiership. Moving a player from the wing to 'the hole' doesn?t suddenly make him David Silva.
"The 4-5-1 system killed Billy ? just as it is killing the club."
Ah that?s what?s killing the club, there's me thinking it was the inept board that are running us into the ground by selling off all are assets including any half decent players we have.
Mike lots of things are killing the club including the 4-5-1 without the players to play it a 4-5-1 with defenders an no creative midfielders is shite and that shows every week
Brown envelopes all o'er the gaff.
Redknapp must have been involved.
Redknapp must have been involved.
Gavram,it will gladden your heart to learn that I was ASSURED this morning that the Bily money is set to be utilised for the aquisition of re-inforcements before Monday`s transfer shut-down. I did mention that the same was said of the Arteta cash but was challenged to say when and by whom.Can anybody help with legitimate sources on this one?
Anto..(and also some others...really?) Your knowledge of Billy is coming from archive footage? Fantastic. For information purposes Billy also played on the wing in Russia. One of the great Toffeeweb myth's is that he was a second striker/in the hole guy who was stuck on the left by Moyes. Get your facts right.
He will play better in Russia, simply because the Russian league is a far easier environment to perform in. The best of Russia: Arshavin, Billy, Zhirkov and Pavlyuchenko have come and ultimately failed. You can make an excuse for each if you want, but the reality is that they were and are simply not good enough.
With regards to the money...I expect the deal is worth around 5million, and we would not have sold for under 3million. In spite of our troubles, I expect we will get the large majority to spend. I believe this because the summer sales were enough to appease the bank for a while, and we did very well cutting our wages. I also think it is becoming clear that we need to invest to ensure we are not dragged into a relegation fight come the end of the season.
I expect we will bring a couple in, but my fear is that the Billy deal has come too late and will effect our ability to move successfully.
He will play better in Russia, simply because the Russian league is a far easier environment to perform in. The best of Russia: Arshavin, Billy, Zhirkov and Pavlyuchenko have come and ultimately failed. You can make an excuse for each if you want, but the reality is that they were and are simply not good enough.
With regards to the money...I expect the deal is worth around 5million, and we would not have sold for under 3million. In spite of our troubles, I expect we will get the large majority to spend. I believe this because the summer sales were enough to appease the bank for a while, and we did very well cutting our wages. I also think it is becoming clear that we need to invest to ensure we are not dragged into a relegation fight come the end of the season.
I expect we will bring a couple in, but my fear is that the Billy deal has come too late and will effect our ability to move successfully.
Before this Harry Redknapp I case it had never even crossed my mind that a manager would get a cut of the money generated from a player sale as surely this represents a massive conflict of interests?
And what is the justification behind a manager getting a cut of this money anyway?
I don't know if this is commonplace and I'm not suggesting that Moyes is involved in anything untoward but it made me think back to the sale of Jermaine Beckford in the summer. It was clear that, from a footballing perspective, this was going to leave us woefully short of options up front, but at a clear £4m profit and a 10% cut to the manager may just force their hand to sell.
Just a thought....
And what is the justification behind a manager getting a cut of this money anyway?
I don't know if this is commonplace and I'm not suggesting that Moyes is involved in anything untoward but it made me think back to the sale of Jermaine Beckford in the summer. It was clear that, from a footballing perspective, this was going to leave us woefully short of options up front, but at a clear £4m profit and a 10% cut to the manager may just force their hand to sell.
Just a thought....
I am not so sure that Moyes will get any of the money from the sale of Billy to spend. Remember Kenwright saying that you don't need £10m to but a £10m player! We probably paid an initial payment of £4m with a promise of £1.5m every year for the remainder of his contract. Looks like the balance of what we owe will be covered by what we receive. Is this what they mean by the Everton way?
I will be very surprised if we don't spend at least a few million before the window shuts. Kenwright is lots of things but he's not totally daft, he knows he's on thin ice. If he doesn't bring in at least one more player then that ice will break.
So what we don't know what he went for? What is the constant need for people to know everyone elses business?
Look at the transfers in all the other clubs, a lot also say undisclosed.
You can guarrantee the tax man will have the correct figures. What difference is that that Joe Schmo doesn't know?
Look at the transfers in all the other clubs, a lot also say undisclosed.
You can guarrantee the tax man will have the correct figures. What difference is that that Joe Schmo doesn't know?
Another sale and the smallest squad in the league gets even smaller. We will even have enough to fill up the bench on Saturday?
Another player to add to the list of players who performed excellently in Russia then terribly in the Premier League is Jo!
Scored about 700 goals in 3 games for CSKA and was nothing if uninspiring in the hustle and bustle of the PL
Obviously the Russian PL is much weaker than ours
Scored about 700 goals in 3 games for CSKA and was nothing if uninspiring in the hustle and bustle of the PL
Obviously the Russian PL is much weaker than ours
Bob Turner #774,
What happened with the auditors in the case of Portsmouth and many other financial irregularities that have taken place in all walks of life.
Are you suggesting that there is no such thing as corruption or greed?
What happened with the auditors in the case of Portsmouth and many other financial irregularities that have taken place in all walks of life.
Are you suggesting that there is no such thing as corruption or greed?
It's late knockings to be bringing in reinforcements.
I know it runs up to midnight on the last day, but you'd have thought that the majority of clubs will be too busy with matches this weekend to be getting involved in their player transfers.
Which leaves quite a narrow window for negotations, medicals and signings early next week.
I know it runs up to midnight on the last day, but you'd have thought that the majority of clubs will be too busy with matches this weekend to be getting involved in their player transfers.
Which leaves quite a narrow window for negotations, medicals and signings early next week.
Of course we hope that the money raised from the sales of Arteta and Billy would be given to the manager to spend on new players. But as that manager is David Moyes then I am not exactly over optimistic - given his track record when it comes to signing attacking players. Give him his due, he seems to have a decent record at signing defenders/defensive players - which given that he is such a defensively minded manager is hardly surprising.
A criticism of Moyes ?- well given that when he makes a good signing he is only too ready to take credit for it then I feel perfectly entitled to be critical when a signing doesn't turn out to be as good as we had hoped. No doubt DM will deflect the "blame" onto the player, whilst at the same time thanking him for his efforts and praising his commitment. A pity that Moyes couldn't show some commitment by employing tactics that allow the team to play to their strengths - both individually and collectively.
A criticism of Moyes ?- well given that when he makes a good signing he is only too ready to take credit for it then I feel perfectly entitled to be critical when a signing doesn't turn out to be as good as we had hoped. No doubt DM will deflect the "blame" onto the player, whilst at the same time thanking him for his efforts and praising his commitment. A pity that Moyes couldn't show some commitment by employing tactics that allow the team to play to their strengths - both individually and collectively.
Michael, not sure if you haven't heard (you must have been living in a bunker if you haven't) ? the Arteta money is already gone, the Bily money could well be too, and even if not, a slice will surely be going to Lokomotiv his former club.
Sam, it hasn't stopped BK being a cunt in the past 12 years.
Doddy, you are skating on thin ice with those assurances unless it's another groundhog defender/defensive midfielder no one wants or foetus for the kids team.
We need a striker, reinforcements are not on their way.
Sam, it hasn't stopped BK being a cunt in the past 12 years.
Doddy, you are skating on thin ice with those assurances unless it's another groundhog defender/defensive midfielder no one wants or foetus for the kids team.
We need a striker, reinforcements are not on their way.
Gavin - the comments about the Arteta money were a general comment regarding money from outgoing transfers. The point I was trying to make is that whilst you would normally want to see your manager been given such " incoming transfer money" to re-invest in team building - as this is David Moyes we are talking about perhaps it's a blessing in disguise!! Personally I wouldn't trust him with a transfer budget in Football Manager never mind the real world.
As regards the need for a striker/attacking player(s) given his record I will not be getting too excited. If by any chance some foreign billionaires/zillionaires bought our club I would still have the same opinion about Moyes. There are other managers out there who have restricted transfer funds - they get on and do the best they can without the bleating and dithering we get from Moyes. I read somewhere that his contract is up in 18 months time - is that the one it took months to negotiate ? There have been peace treaties that took less time to discuss than Moyes' contract - money well spent ? Not in my opinion.
Moyes when he does sign a good striker - he always seems to mess them up. He doesn't seem to be able to get the best out of the strikers we have already got does he? He has hardly done a lot to encourage Vellios. The lad from Argentina may or may not be the answer - but unless he is given a run of games how will that be known ? The odd 10 or 15 minute appearance towards the end of a match is far from ideal. Even a geat player such as Lionel Messi would struggle to make an impact in the last 15 minutes of a game.
As regards the need for a striker/attacking player(s) given his record I will not be getting too excited. If by any chance some foreign billionaires/zillionaires bought our club I would still have the same opinion about Moyes. There are other managers out there who have restricted transfer funds - they get on and do the best they can without the bleating and dithering we get from Moyes. I read somewhere that his contract is up in 18 months time - is that the one it took months to negotiate ? There have been peace treaties that took less time to discuss than Moyes' contract - money well spent ? Not in my opinion.
Moyes when he does sign a good striker - he always seems to mess them up. He doesn't seem to be able to get the best out of the strikers we have already got does he? He has hardly done a lot to encourage Vellios. The lad from Argentina may or may not be the answer - but unless he is given a run of games how will that be known ? The odd 10 or 15 minute appearance towards the end of a match is far from ideal. Even a geat player such as Lionel Messi would struggle to make an impact in the last 15 minutes of a game.
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772 Posted 25/01/2012 at 18:42:45
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Or maybe the fee's so massive, that we don't want other clubs to know how much we have to spend.. (cough cough)