Season 2011-12
The Mail Bag
Big Vic... just how good is he?
42 Comments: There are many aspects to a forward's game: goals, what you do with the ball, what you do without the ball, general attitude, and commitment will do for a start.
Goals. There are many different types of goals, let's take Anichebe's last (only) 3:
- The sniffer, turns and swivels in the 6yd box, Goal; tick.
- Put through one on one, Goal; tick.
- Header from the cross, goal; tick.
- Also, Putting your boot through it from the edge of the box, vs Birmingham, Goal; tick.
What he does without the ball; to be honest, a bit harder to quantify and off the top of my head I can't come up with any glaring examples of yes he is good off the ball to actually comment on it either way.
Just to digress a bit, up to the end of last season and prior to his injury, I nearly fell off my chair when Moyes gave him a new contract worth £30k/wk(??) and thought that if I could do a quantum leap into his body and not put up a 100% better showing than that lazy idle so-and-so then I would eat my hat etc.
Which comes under the attitude heading (and also what you do when you don't have the ball). I remember some defender playing a ball accross his own box in the 'general' direction of his keeper, it was shorter than one of Snow White's dwarfs (Dopey I think). It as also mid-way-ish between Vic and the keeper...
To my mind, a striker has to be single-mindedly selfish in pursuit of the ball, like a big cat: ball = food = mine, even at 30-70 in the keeper's favour. He didn't even move. "That's it," I thought, "if he's a forward, I'm a 'kin astronaut." But on reflection, it could be Instructions of the like: don't commit too far forward in case it all breaks down and we are caught on the hop.
But his attitude seems to have improved a bit, for how long I don't know, but he has the example of The Stracqman to copy.
I have given 5 examples, can they all be one off flukes, I doubt if 3 goals in 4 games is in the fluke category. So... Whither Vic from now on? Was I too hard on him in previous seasons? Then I would have said, "No way, he's a waster," but has Vic wised up and become a Clever Trevor and a Tricky Dicky... or is he still a Blockhead?? I don't really know ? and that's the problem.
Derek Thomas, Posted 05/02/2012 at 02:29:07
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Before that knee injury, the lad looked like he had a bit of pace down the wing, a good shot, and could hold it up. When he came back, he needed games to get back in and, of course, that elusive goal that brings the confidence.
The kid needs a run in a winning team and as winning games seems to be less of priority to Moyes it looks unlikely that he will be first choice after Cahill or Fellaini up front.
The kid needs a run in a winning team and as winning games seems to be less of priority to Moyes it looks unlikely that he will be first choice after Cahill or Fellaini up front.
Victor's biggest problem for me is his attitude. He's a fuckin big lad and he's forever on his arse and whinging like a woman. He stumbles and falls like a granny caught in a gale whenever someone goes near him. Where is his fuckin pride?? He's on TV for fuck sake and he's acting a tart. If it was me I'd be embarrassed. He needs to stick his hand down his pants and find his bollocks fast before he even thinks about being a footballer.
He is one of the most unfit "athletes" I have seen for ages.
He reminds me of Mica Richards, he is too big to be a footy player. He needs to work more on his fitness levels. Mica has managed it, as he looks a hell of a better player now, so fingers crossed for Vic
He reminds me of Mica Richards, he is too big to be a footy player. He needs to work more on his fitness levels. Mica has managed it, as he looks a hell of a better player now, so fingers crossed for Vic
He obviously has something. The goals he has scored this year have been big goals. Goals that matter. But I just can't take to him. Mard arse cunt. However,I don't think that Moyes is as clueless as some on here would have you believe so if he thinks Vic is worth the contract he gave him then maybe it's worth persevering for a while longer. He is scoring goals and that is the most important thing for a striker. Personally,I would sell him for a decent offer. I just don't like him. And I don't think I've ever said that about any other Everton player.
Glad to see him scoring and rescuing us but I am yet to be convinced he will be a long term fixture. Cannot see him scoring regularly - hope I'm proved wrong but he has a lot of 'history' to overcome.
For now, stick the ball in the net, give it 100% and keep the mouth shut - that'll do for me for the time being.
For now, stick the ball in the net, give it 100% and keep the mouth shut - that'll do for me for the time being.
Fitness attitude touch and awareness are big problems for me . I think he is average at best and I would class him as pretty shit actually. Strangely he scores some v good goals so must have something but I don't believe you can coach a change in attitude. Hopefully injuries have made him smell the coffee and he proves me wrong
Not kind to be negative about a player who has scored 3 good goals this season but I can't help be reminded of the many games that he has played when he has never managed to fire off a single shot. I really hope that I am wrong but I can't see a consistent Premiership striker in there
Victor should be top quality. He's strong and quick, clearly can score goals and although many on here will tell you his first touch is poor, I've always found a player's first touch suddenly becomes amazing when he's feeling confident.
Why is he not top quality? He's overweight, maybe not by much, but a professional 'athlete' should look leaner than he does. He seems to have attitude problems in the past, not surprising for an 18 year old who found himself earning vast sums for doing what we all wish we were doing, and he gets injured quite a lot.
So where to from here? Given our financial position, he's worth keeping. We can't simply ditch him and bring someone else in who would have similar natural attributes. However, he needs better management. For a start he needs to lose weight, whether that's muscle or fat, as he's too bulky to avoid injury. I've written about this before but we should be using yoga or pilates or some kind of flexibility and core strengthening exercise on a regular basis for players with poor injury records. I believe this could make a big difference with Anichebe. The final bit is down to him. He needs to look around, have a realistic assessment of what he's done with his career and what he's likely to do, and as he matures, which most of them do eventually, his attitude may just become a strength as he realises what he's cost himself in the past.
Why is he not top quality? He's overweight, maybe not by much, but a professional 'athlete' should look leaner than he does. He seems to have attitude problems in the past, not surprising for an 18 year old who found himself earning vast sums for doing what we all wish we were doing, and he gets injured quite a lot.
So where to from here? Given our financial position, he's worth keeping. We can't simply ditch him and bring someone else in who would have similar natural attributes. However, he needs better management. For a start he needs to lose weight, whether that's muscle or fat, as he's too bulky to avoid injury. I've written about this before but we should be using yoga or pilates or some kind of flexibility and core strengthening exercise on a regular basis for players with poor injury records. I believe this could make a big difference with Anichebe. The final bit is down to him. He needs to look around, have a realistic assessment of what he's done with his career and what he's likely to do, and as he matures, which most of them do eventually, his attitude may just become a strength as he realises what he's cost himself in the past.
I have said many times on here that I think Vic will come good.
He has always had all the attributes to make it as a top, top footballer and it is totally up to him as to whether he was to become a Drogba or a Heskey.
After an amazing start to his career (remember the quality of his goals against Metalist and Nuremburg) he seemed to drifting towards the Heskey category, before a serious bust up with Moyesie about 2 years ago. He then turned into Drogba for a couple of games and then came the "tackle" from Kevin Nolan. Vic has not been the same player since (and realistically, who of us could honestly say that there is no chance we would be permanently effected by an injury like that?)
He now seems to be turning back into the player he could be. If he can maintain this and stay clear of injuries we will have a fantastic player on our hands - Well worth the £30,000 a week!
He has always had all the attributes to make it as a top, top footballer and it is totally up to him as to whether he was to become a Drogba or a Heskey.
After an amazing start to his career (remember the quality of his goals against Metalist and Nuremburg) he seemed to drifting towards the Heskey category, before a serious bust up with Moyesie about 2 years ago. He then turned into Drogba for a couple of games and then came the "tackle" from Kevin Nolan. Vic has not been the same player since (and realistically, who of us could honestly say that there is no chance we would be permanently effected by an injury like that?)
He now seems to be turning back into the player he could be. If he can maintain this and stay clear of injuries we will have a fantastic player on our hands - Well worth the £30,000 a week!
How bout 433 with straq, jelly and vic up front?
I can see Moyes going for that.
I can see Moyes going for that.
Alasdair - thanks for the laugh, Big Vic being compared with Drogba. I fear the Heskey comparison more pertinent. He may have more to his game than I give him credit for but Drogbaesque ...... never in a million years.
Come to think of it though, he does spend a lot of time on the floor moaning ....!
Come to think of it though, he does spend a lot of time on the floor moaning ....!
Big Vic has always reminded me of Ameobi of Newcastle... he can do a job down the right-hand side and should make the perfect foil for Jelly. Maybe he should be given a run alongside Jelavic to see if he can blend with the new boy.
I honestly see Stracq as another Vaughan: plenty of heart but limited ability. Comparisons of Big Vic with Drogba are laughable....like comparing our midfield with Barca's. We have a very average bunch of players who rely heavily on defensive duties... we tend to pinch points and very rarely win by two clear goals. I miss the days when we played teams off the pitch.
I honestly see Stracq as another Vaughan: plenty of heart but limited ability. Comparisons of Big Vic with Drogba are laughable....like comparing our midfield with Barca's. We have a very average bunch of players who rely heavily on defensive duties... we tend to pinch points and very rarely win by two clear goals. I miss the days when we played teams off the pitch.
At Vic's age nobody thought Drogba was any good. He played for Le Mans, in the French second division, and had a fairly poor scoring record.
At 23, everybody thought Heskey was the next big thing however, he was strong, quick and had a 'decent touch for a big man'. He'd been transferred for £11M to a team who played regular Champions League football and he was an England regular.
I guess it goes to show you never can tell. To be honest, if he's halfway in between the two he'll be a good player for us, especially as we're probably not even talking about him as a first choice starting player.
At 23, everybody thought Heskey was the next big thing however, he was strong, quick and had a 'decent touch for a big man'. He'd been transferred for £11M to a team who played regular Champions League football and he was an England regular.
I guess it goes to show you never can tell. To be honest, if he's halfway in between the two he'll be a good player for us, especially as we're probably not even talking about him as a first choice starting player.
Isn't he our top scorer with 4? Thats including the league cup goal. To be honest the ways things are at the moment i am relieved at times when he comes on as i always feel he can nick a goal, though that says more about our team at the moment than him as a footballer. Hopefully Jelly will come good and change all that
Typical, the lad's had what should have been a career-ending inury, brought himself back to fitness only to then get another long-term injury. When he does come fit, he bags a few good goals which are getting us precious points, and all most people on here can do is slag him off for not being Drogba.
Andy Carroll is far worse and cost far more money, yet when he occassionally scores, that lot over the park go wild pretending he's the best striker in the league. We just rip into one of our academy products for having the temerity to score a few goals and not conforming to the 'Moyes destroys strikers' philosophy that most people on here desperately want to believe.
Andy Carroll is far worse and cost far more money, yet when he occassionally scores, that lot over the park go wild pretending he's the best striker in the league. We just rip into one of our academy products for having the temerity to score a few goals and not conforming to the 'Moyes destroys strikers' philosophy that most people on here desperately want to believe.
Vic being big and strong lad, not short of talent, does very well as a sub when opposing defenders get tired. Can you imagine how the opposing defenders feel, Straq starts and gives his strongest best, then Vic comes on to carry on where Straq left? So for me, Vic is best as a super sub.
Mike @ 608 ? he's not 'quality' because he's a brainless dope, has no interest in partnering up front (see Beckford for another example!) a whinger, and also since his new contract someone seems to have convinced him based on his lame behavior over the past 12 months that he's... er quality.
Gone is the pacey agressive, hungry young man we saw in the euro games, and we are left with something much less.. Ok can he can chip in with the odd goal, so amen to the super sub tag, but that's about it for me.
Gone is the pacey agressive, hungry young man we saw in the euro games, and we are left with something much less.. Ok can he can chip in with the odd goal, so amen to the super sub tag, but that's about it for me.
The only way fans can judge big Vic is a run of games, he is too stop- start, a bit like James Vaughan. He plays 1 game, then is injured for 3. Unless he can play or be fit for a run of games, then we should get rid as he will always be injury-prone and cost the club more in medical bills.
He is rubbish but is another player to be messed around by Moyes. He is no winger and should never have played there. There is a player in him but Moyes isn't the one to bring it out.
A rubbish player whose goals have given us 5 points this season.
Bit harsh there, James...
Bit harsh there, James...
He may not be liked by a few on here but he has out-scored Saha, Cahill in about 4 appearances so get behind the man. He may be limited but he knows where the net is. If Moyesey can get the big girl out of him, he will be an asset we couldn't afford.
I think bedding him in is a good thing, a bit like he is doing with Vellios.
From what I have seen with the two of them, they're a bit out of depth when starting a game, both look terrific when coming off the bench.
Next season with Jelavic starting and these 2 young guns with potential waiting on the wings, it does look pretty promising.
Just hope for the lad that he stays fit.
From what I have seen with the two of them, they're a bit out of depth when starting a game, both look terrific when coming off the bench.
Next season with Jelavic starting and these 2 young guns with potential waiting on the wings, it does look pretty promising.
Just hope for the lad that he stays fit.
Vic is a load of crap. One of the worst forwards I have ever seen in a blue shirt in my four decades or so and, apparently, a bit of an arrogant fucker to boot (based on what?). It so happens that he has scored three goals recently. Fine. I'll take the points. If anyone was daft enough to offer 1M or 500K, I'd take it in a heartbeat. A lazy bumbling SOB, on the pitch, and off it in Crosby
All the examples in the OP are good ones of Vic at his best. If we wanted to be pedantic we could go and find others of him missing sitters etc.
But the thing I've seen since he came back is he looks a lot more confident. For probably three of the last six years since he came on the scene he's been injured, and his career was at risk at one point. Perhaps this has taught him a few lessons in his mind and his mentality has developed because of it?
One thing he's doing now is getting himself in goalscoring positions, which he rarely used to do. This alone means he's more likely to score. I imagine he's watched a lot of Football in his time away fronm the game and tried to learn.
He hasn't got the best touch and I don't think he's a natural finisher but he looks as if he could be a good foil for someone who is and maybe chip in with 10-12 himself and be a nuisance.
If he does that then I'd take my hat of to him because he'd be a player of limited ability making the best of himself.
But the thing I've seen since he came back is he looks a lot more confident. For probably three of the last six years since he came on the scene he's been injured, and his career was at risk at one point. Perhaps this has taught him a few lessons in his mind and his mentality has developed because of it?
One thing he's doing now is getting himself in goalscoring positions, which he rarely used to do. This alone means he's more likely to score. I imagine he's watched a lot of Football in his time away fronm the game and tried to learn.
He hasn't got the best touch and I don't think he's a natural finisher but he looks as if he could be a good foil for someone who is and maybe chip in with 10-12 himself and be a nuisance.
If he does that then I'd take my hat of to him because he'd be a player of limited ability making the best of himself.
Bit harsh there Paul Ferry, I bet you celebrated his goal on Saturday though, and the winner against WBA ?
I remember when he came through and really did well in the Europa games. One home game vs Metalist was one of the Yaks first games, Yak strolled around the pitch and did nothing, Big Vic came on and put him to shame with his attitude, workrate and effort. If he can get that attitude back instead of being a moaning bitch every time he's tackled he would get much more support from the fans.
He has come on in a few cameos and is now our highest scorer. He deserves a chance to prove he can score on a regular basis. Unfortunately, when he does play (pre injury) he is often stuck out wide and doesn't get to play as an out and out striker. Now we have proper wide players in the side he will hopefully get more chances to play through the centre.
His attitude seems to have improved as well. On the pitch he still has a tendency to moan about decisions he doesn't get but I don't mind that, I wish a few more of our players had a go at referees as I think they get too easy a time from us. Off the pitch I thought his comments in the Echo today showed a player who is maturing (finally).
His attitude seems to have improved as well. On the pitch he still has a tendency to moan about decisions he doesn't get but I don't mind that, I wish a few more of our players had a go at referees as I think they get too easy a time from us. Off the pitch I thought his comments in the Echo today showed a player who is maturing (finally).
All three of the goals Derek mentioned were good strikers goals but the one that impressed me perhaps the most was the one he placed passed the keeper when through one on one. A lot have forwards would have blasted that into the keepers body.
However, I think the Nolan tackle did more than physical damage to Victor - it seems to have damaged his self belief. I remember a game a few ears ago when Marlon King tried to rough him up at Goodison. King is a big unit and is about 8 years older than Victor but the lad got right back in his face - even the TV commentator made a comment about his willingness to stand up to King. I don't know where that side of him has gone but if he ever gets it back (instead of moaning when he feels hard done by) he will be a right handful for any defense.
However, I think the Nolan tackle did more than physical damage to Victor - it seems to have damaged his self belief. I remember a game a few ears ago when Marlon King tried to rough him up at Goodison. King is a big unit and is about 8 years older than Victor but the lad got right back in his face - even the TV commentator made a comment about his willingness to stand up to King. I don't know where that side of him has gone but if he ever gets it back (instead of moaning when he feels hard done by) he will be a right handful for any defense.
Fuck me Wayne, god forbid we punch above our weight. You are right of course, if we had Roberto Martinez or Paul Lambert in charge we'd be in the champions league for shizzle.
I did Peter, you're right mate, and I'm thankful for the point(s) and 3 goals, but my views of VA can only change if he changes
I'm happy for Victor Anichebe that he scored but I fear he is always going to be a second rate striker. He doesn't have the heart, he doesn't have the determination and he doesn't have the skill set. He can't shoot from distance and he rarely gets himself in a good open position, Every time he gets his shirt pulled, his arm held or his ankle tapped on the blind side of the referee he goes down whining.
These things happen to all strikers and it makes the good ones more determined than ever. Victor simply sulks. The day I see him score a great individual goal, the day I see him dominate a defense, the day I see him stand out among his team mates - that's the day I'll believe he's a striker. But he never will.
I would rather have one solid opportunist striker like Jelavic than two Victor Anichebes.
These things happen to all strikers and it makes the good ones more determined than ever. Victor simply sulks. The day I see him score a great individual goal, the day I see him dominate a defense, the day I see him stand out among his team mates - that's the day I'll believe he's a striker. But he never will.
I would rather have one solid opportunist striker like Jelavic than two Victor Anichebes.
The real question is why is he not established in the team yet?
He would have been ideally suited to the big ,stong, old-fashioned centre forward role but alas every few teams adopt that policy anymore preferring speedier smaller players and that is why teams like Manure succeed (as well as being rich). Big Vic has a big heart and is not without talent but some bad injuries early in his career have stifled his advancement plus the Moyes system of playing one real forward most of the time.
As Timmie's goals have dried up, most of us would ask Moyes if he has the guts to go with 2 forwards for the rest of the season choosing from Stracqs, Vellios, Jelavic and Big Vic.
It probably won't happen except in desperate situations such as the Wigan game and that is why we will win very few of the remaining games.
It certainly will not boost ticket sales for next season.
He would have been ideally suited to the big ,stong, old-fashioned centre forward role but alas every few teams adopt that policy anymore preferring speedier smaller players and that is why teams like Manure succeed (as well as being rich). Big Vic has a big heart and is not without talent but some bad injuries early in his career have stifled his advancement plus the Moyes system of playing one real forward most of the time.
As Timmie's goals have dried up, most of us would ask Moyes if he has the guts to go with 2 forwards for the rest of the season choosing from Stracqs, Vellios, Jelavic and Big Vic.
It probably won't happen except in desperate situations such as the Wigan game and that is why we will win very few of the remaining games.
It certainly will not boost ticket sales for next season.
Well, Laurie (820), for a big lad he's still well behind where he should be in the rough up stakes. I still fondly remember about 4 seasons ago against Arsenal Big Dunc racing off the bench with about 5 to go making a bee line straight for Solly and greeting him with a nice shoulder check. Solly near shit himself watching him arrive.
It says an awful lot when our top 2 scorers are a left-back and big Vic.
For me, Big Vic is a very poor player. Poor attitude and poor goalscoring return over the last few years says it all really!!!
He's about as good as Cameron Jerome / Marlon King. No better, no worse. Not even a conversation worth having.
Richard 050, it says a lot more that our two highest scoring forwards can't get a start.
At his best he is shit
Ha ha ha, only read the headline and have read none of this thread,.
What did you say? "just how good is he" are you taking the piss mate? he's fucking garbage, he'll be lucky to get conference football, if we let him go {which we should a s a p} the lad is as strong as an ox, can punch grass really hard, can fall over and whine like a girl, look pissed off when he's subbed ,even though he deserves it because he's shit, and generally get right on my tits.
Anyway, I think you get the point, he's shit and, why the fuck are we paying him wages ?
What did you say? "just how good is he" are you taking the piss mate? he's fucking garbage, he'll be lucky to get conference football, if we let him go {which we should a s a p} the lad is as strong as an ox, can punch grass really hard, can fall over and whine like a girl, look pissed off when he's subbed ,even though he deserves it because he's shit, and generally get right on my tits.
Anyway, I think you get the point, he's shit and, why the fuck are we paying him wages ?
Steve Smith; I bow to no one in my admiration of your flowing prose in making your point, the lingistic heritage of Chaucer and Shakespear is safe in your hands.
1) Do try to keep up old boy, the tread is about 10 days old.
2) Try reading it...hint; it's about the early Vic of Potential, the, as you so colourfully say, middle Vic of punching the grass and last but not least, this seasons Vic 3 or 4 goals in 4 or 5 games AND a better attitude.
My point is that I didn't know which Vic we would contiue to get on a week by week basis, I hoped it was the new improved Vic and that he continued to improve.
1) Do try to keep up old boy, the tread is about 10 days old.
2) Try reading it...hint; it's about the early Vic of Potential, the, as you so colourfully say, middle Vic of punching the grass and last but not least, this seasons Vic 3 or 4 goals in 4 or 5 games AND a better attitude.
My point is that I didn't know which Vic we would contiue to get on a week by week basis, I hoped it was the new improved Vic and that he continued to improve.
Not on the bench today interestingly and not named by Moyes as missing. A player with potential though and growing goals to his name.
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574 Posted 05/02/2012 at 08:08:04
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Think of the best goal scorers in the world, past & present. Would DM allow their personalities, style of play, work ethic to flourish? In a word no! Because none of these players include defensive play in their C.V.
Jesus... The crap I'm grasping at for an explanation. We're just SHIT ok... Always will be under DM. The best we can hope for is the " punch above their weight " label, which is far from our Latin logo!