Season 2011-12
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Transfers - in whose interests?

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Am I the only one surprised at the news that Harry Rednapp was entitled to a percentage of the profit on the transfer of a player where the player was signed and sold 'on his watch'?

Is this a widespread practice in Premier League clubs? Is it the practice at Everton?

It has been hard enough to accept that the club have had to become a 'selling club' to survive. Can anyone reassure me that our manager has not been benefiting financially from our club's misfortune in having to sell its best players?

Gregory Kelly, Belfast     Posted 09/02/2012 at 10:16:47

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Andrew Humphrey
554   Posted 09/02/2012 at 14:45:01

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Given that we have lost more money than made on most recent sales, it hardly comes into the equation!
Steve Guy
557   Posted 09/02/2012 at 14:45:28

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I think it is more than likely that all the managers have similar arrangements. I remember Holloway talking about how he was bonussed on turning a profit on players just a year or so ago. Football is a murky place and has been since long before the "modern" era.
Tommy Coleman
559   Posted 09/02/2012 at 14:47:58

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I don't think Moyes takes money on player sales. I don't think many do, there's too much conflict of interest. Can't see many chairmen aggreeing to it.

I do believe Moyes gets bonuses for clean sheets though, would explain a lot.
Nick Entwistle
560   Posted 09/02/2012 at 14:47:00

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I wonder what Simon Jordan would have said if a potential Palace manager requested this.

Surely it fair that any loss on a player had its percentage taken out of the managers wages... which Harry would never agree to, so why would Milan agree to this ridiculous arrangement? Unless he was unable to afford Harry's stand payment requirements and this was the way to settle it.
Brian Hill
570   Posted 09/02/2012 at 15:22:32

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It seems reasonable to me. After all, who could be expected to survive on a Premier League manager's salary?
Shaun Brennan
575   Posted 09/02/2012 at 15:50:37

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Probably explains why Harry bought and sold so many players where ever he has been. hmmm....
Keith Glazzard
580   Posted 09/02/2012 at 15:40:13

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Who knows what 'Arry's arrangements with his employer are.

He is, after all, according to the jury, a poor illiterate cast adrift in a world of money that he doesn't really understand. I recall another jury accepting the idea that Ken Dodd was 'no good with money' because he had £300,000+ in a suitcase in his attic.

Steve Guy is right that football, like much of the rest of the world, is a very 'murky place'. We suspect that our manager is more likely to fine a player than thank him for gaining an unfair advantage, and I can't conceive of Moyes taking a bung or or demanding the sort of percentage Arry did.

As Brian suggests - would you be arsed?
Rupert Sullivan
592   Posted 09/02/2012 at 17:03:43

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I touched on this in an earlier post because like you Gregory I find it distasteful that such a practice goes on. I would like to see FULL disclosure for all transfer doings - this includes publishing of all purchase prices, all sale prices, signing on fees and all payments to Agents - (why any football clubs pays an Agent is beyond me anyway - surely they should be paid by the person they represent??? - why the hell do EFC have to pay an Agent? stupid bloody idea!)

The payment of a percentage sell-on fee to a manager (who presumably in most cases in the person who approves a sale) is an absolute disgrace - talk about having a vested interest in the sale of a player.

This lack of financial transparency for me can only lead to shady dealings and underhand practices - it is a slippery slope.
Richard Dodd
600   Posted 09/02/2012 at 18:01:24

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Story going round the Freshy last night was that Harry was on the brink of taking the England job but for investment reasons was insisting on signing the contract with his dog`s name!

Boom Boom!
Ray Robinson
613   Posted 09/02/2012 at 19:19:26

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Well 'Arry was acquitted but what sort of despicable practice allows a manager to take a cut from any profits from transfers? Talk about conflict of interest!

As pointed out in today's Daily Telegraph, the £300,000 he legally received on the sale of Rio Ferdinand from West Ham to Leeds drained the club of a considerable amount of money with which to develop the next generation of players. Legally innocent maybe, but morally bankrupt nonetheless. No wonder Joe Public is increasingly disllusioned with professional football. For me, there is no way should he be the next English manager.

I may have my doubts about Moyes's position but I can't see him getting involved in such murky practices.
Trevor Lynes
615   Posted 09/02/2012 at 19:29:29

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With the tax evasion court appearance so fresh in the minds of everyone, I really think that it would be foolish for the England board of directors agreeing to Harry Redknapp being accepted as the next England manager.... he is following a man who at least stood by his principles.

It is hypocritical to have Terry lose the captaincy of the England team BEFORE being deemed guilty whilst basically forcing Capello to quit for standing by Terry before his court case.

For a bunch of supposedly clever men to act so quickly without at least letting Capello know, and not inviting his input on the matter, smacks of a 'kangaroo court'...

I admire Capello for his stance and his statement in public after his resignation shows that he is indeed an honorouble person.

I would take Hodgson as his successor before Harry anytime... to pick Redkapp would be like making Del Boy a justice of the peace.
Gregory Kelly
637   Posted 09/02/2012 at 20:33:25

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Found the posts reassuring, would hate to have thought that Moyes got a cut of the profit on the sale of Arteta. Ray, I didnt know about the cut 'Arry got on the Ferdinand sale. Conflict of interest or what! If this is 'innocence' God help us. We are all mugs feeding our hard earned money, or pension in my case, into this sleaze machine.
Dick Fearon
652   Posted 09/02/2012 at 21:49:19

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I think it is fairly well known on this site that I am not one of Davy's greatest fans yet never in a million years would I think he would do anything underhand.
Richard Dodd
656   Posted 09/02/2012 at 22:05:48

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According to Barry Hearn, these practices are not underhand but written into managers` contracts. They relate only to `profits on sales` and are more usual in the lower leagues.

I suspect managers don`t have to fork out on players sold at a loss,though!
Barry Rathbone
658   Posted 09/02/2012 at 21:54:21

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I certainly wouldn't rush to exonerate Moyes, so much of the "business" of football is hidden - it's a cesspit akin to MPs expenses - legal, but happily abused by one and all.

I would wager this is standard practice now, on SSN the leyton Orient chairman, that spiv snooker fella, said he has no problem with it.

Our 20 odd million quid "other operating costs" (I prefer "slushfund") comes to mind when the murky world of football finance gets exposed even further.

No wonder people have lost their passion for the game.
Richard Dodd
665   Posted 09/02/2012 at 22:27:36

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But who, apart from Rooney and Lescott, have we sold at a profit?
Michael Kenrick
684   Posted 10/02/2012 at 00:07:05

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OTTOMH:

Arteta,
Gravesen,
Neill,
Johnson,
Beckford,
McFadden,
Bent...

(Okay I'm now scrapping the barrel)
Roman Sidey
688   Posted 10/02/2012 at 00:35:41

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I'm no expert on Redknapp's scandal, but one of the few articles I read recently had Harry quoted as saying in court that it wasn't a written agreement that he got money for Crouch (that was the example he used so I am assuming it could be the same for the others), but that he deserved it. He asked for 10%, and Milan offered him 5%.

If Moyes was taking a cut on transfers, he would have sold Saha to Turkey when they offered £8mil, and he probably would have sold Yakubu earlier as well.
Anto Byrne
691   Posted 10/02/2012 at 00:52:16

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I nurture a player, train, educate, nurse, cater for all their needs and on top of that give them a nice wedge of money to turn up and run around kicking a ball on a Saturday arvo. I think i should get some compensation for this when I get an offer for a whole heap of cash from a club offering the additional incentive of overseas travel.

I got this player on a free and just sold him for £4mil and I sold another one for a ridiculous £23mil and he only cost me a paltry £2.5m. Oh yeah... don't forget that kid I sold for another £20 mil. I just brought in £47mil ? surely I am entitled to a little bonus along the way because I have turned these sow's ears into silk purses.

If it's open and transparent then why shouldn't I have my nose in the trough? I know I've had this job for 10 years now but they can call me a taxi tomorrow if they so choose...
Eric Myles
699   Posted 10/02/2012 at 02:33:55

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Richard #665, I don't think Rooney would count as he wasn't bought.
Cameron White
715   Posted 10/02/2012 at 09:10:57

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A friend of mine used to play for one of the London based Premier League teams and he told me that their manager used to sit down with his chairman at the start of each seaon and put a value on each player. Then, if that player was sold at a higher price than anticipated, the manager received a percentage of the fee.

The example he gave me was of a player whose value suddenly shot up after he was picked for England and the club cashed in by selling him at an inflated rate with the manager pocketing his share.
Richard Dodd
723   Posted 10/02/2012 at 09:42:47

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Blime,Michael,if we made a profit on that lot,Davey`s cleverer than even I thought-but agree with Eric that he wouldn`t be due on Rooney.
Psst.....what`s his dog`s name?
Trevor Lynes
725   Posted 10/02/2012 at 09:55:27

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Redknapp has surprised me maqny times at his wheeling and dealing....he passes players about like no body's business and now I can understand why...its no coincidence that both West ham and Pompey were left in a mess after he left...God only knows how Spurs will be left if they fail to make the Champions league...

To my mind, Redknapp is an opportunist and has a cockney barrow boys attitude to business....I do not believe for one minute that he is naive about money.

He has always moved players in and out at every club he has been and I would like to see the stats on how many players have passed through his sticky fingers in the past ten years.

I'm disgusted at the revelations and the secrecy of the behind the curtains shennanigans between managers and club owners.

The fans are just the cattle class no marks making money for greedy men without honour....Capello comes out as too honest for the present set up of Dick Turpins running the football in this country.
James Cadwaladr
733   Posted 10/02/2012 at 10:36:39

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Roman. It was initially a 10% cut in Redknapps contract which after a period of time was reduced to 5%.

The 5% was written in his contract - Redknap wasnt happy so the allegation was that Mandaric paid the extra 5% as a gesture.

Im not sure how widespread it is in the Premiership but read Broken Dreams by Tom Bowyer which is a great account of corruption in British Football. Managers receiving cuts of transfer profits became prevalent after the expose of transfer bungs and the apparent clean up of British Football that followed. ITs a great read but in some ways leaves you feeling deflated of the profiteering by those involved in the game at the fans expense- but we already know that dont we.

One other manager I do know had a percentage of transfer profits in the Premier League was Ian Holloway at Blackpool by the owner Owen Oyston as the club couldnt afford anything like the wages to keep him.

There is nothing illegal about this but clearly isnt in the best interests of the sport in my opinion.
Guy Hastings
735   Posted 10/02/2012 at 11:05:53

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James - as I recall, (which is no guarantee of anything) Tom Bower's book also claims that West Ham had over 130 players transferred in/out during Redknapp's tenure.
Richard Dodd
740   Posted 10/02/2012 at 11:18:27

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Let`s be clear-Harry has been found `not guilty` on all counts and there is nothing to indicate that `our man`has such a clause in his contract,anyway!
Les Roberts
742   Posted 10/02/2012 at 10:26:08

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As soon as I heard that some managers got a percentage of any player transfer fee it immediately got me thinking to the transfer of Jermain Beckford to Leicester.

It was no secret that Moyes had fallen out with him over him turning up late to a game and generally 'not working hard enough' (he scored 10 goals on limited starts in his first season Moyes you fucking moron!) but I always thought it was reckless, from a footballing perspective, to sell him on transfer deadline day, as well as selling Yakubu, leaving us with Saha (injury prone), Anichebe (injury-prone and hardly prolific) and Stracqualursi (untried in PL) as our striking options.

But if you then consider that he MAY have received a £400k bonus on the £4million sale of Beckford to Leicester then it makes much more sense....no good to us though!
Stephen Kenny
743   Posted 10/02/2012 at 11:21:09

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I think a percentage of the league position money would be fairer and less of a conflict of interest.

IMO most clubs will be happy to pay these types of bonuses. There's 14 clubs in the PL who are 100% focused on staying in the league and finishing between 6-17 is acceptable to them.

Andy Callan
751   Posted 10/02/2012 at 12:06:59

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Redknapp is a fuckin crook. Same as Graham, Big Sam, El Tel and all the other members of the 'Brown Envelope Brigade'.

There are ways and means around everything and if a manager sells a player for a huge profit, the club could just pay him a 'bonus' - there would be fuck all anyone could do about it.

The game is full of cloak and daggers - always has been.
Anthony Jones
754   Posted 10/02/2012 at 12:17:01

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Perhaps Redknapp's tendency to buy any attacking player that he can get his hands on is related to his receipt of profit-related bonuses?

It struck me when Pienaar left that it was a strange move for Redknapp to land Pienaar, when he would surely struggle to break into the first team. Perhaps he bought him witht the sole aim of making a return on Spurs' investment. I wouldn't be too surprised if he sells Saha to Galatasaray in 6 months time.

Nick Wall
755   Posted 10/02/2012 at 12:20:41

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True - you can't eradicate corruption and immoral dealings completely - but there's so much that could be done that would make a real difference. Clubs should be required to disclose all payments to managers and to agents (whether in cash, bonues, shares or perks). And there should be transparency in player transfers, with information on payments to all interested parties being made publicly available. Why aren't football fans, who are the main victims in all of this, up in arms already demanding that the authorities clean up their act ?
James Cadwaladr
759   Posted 10/02/2012 at 12:39:54

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Anthony, I don't neceassarilly disagree with your points.

Re: Pienaar transfer to Spurs, the generally believed view inside the game and throughout Spurs fans is that Spurs were courting considerable South African investments for 2 years or so and Pienaar's transfer was seen as a way of further attracting the club to SA investors.

South Africans are very proud and also like their own. Saracens Rugby is a perfect case in point. SA ownership, SA senior and operational management, SA team management, strong SA bias on playing staff.

SA investment into Spurs didn't happen in the end.
Craig Walker
776   Posted 10/02/2012 at 13:59:02

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It probably explains why he was interested in taking Phil Neville a few windows back.

I bet he'd promised to take his missus to McDonalds and thought if he could get Phil Neville in then he'd make enough profit to be able to "go large".

I wouldn't trust 'Arry as far as I could throw him. I remember seeing that Panorama programme a few years back. The undercover bloke said did he fancy taking his wife to the World Cup, stay in a 5 star hotel etc. and was he interested in some player? "I've always liked him...."

Can't stand the man myself.

Nobody ever mentions when he jumped ship to Southampton do they?
Andrew Fair
778   Posted 10/02/2012 at 14:08:18

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Craig #776 Completely agree with you. Harry Redknapp is an odious individual, I cannot stand the man. It's at times like these that I am glad I'm an Everton fan first and foremost and England is just a bit on the side!
Roman Sidey
787   Posted 10/02/2012 at 14:20:44

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Thanks James. It was a hard read, as I think Harry probably wanted it. The only way I can fathom that he was found not guilty is if he spoke his own way so much in court that the jury just now idea what the charge was for.

As good a manager he is, he is a lying, cheating, bullying scum bag.
Anthony Jones
791   Posted 10/02/2012 at 14:38:34

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James,

That's an interesting point. Li Wei Feng and Li Tie were not exactly brought to Everton to improve our football, so I guess this phenomenon is not that unusual.

If even half of the accusations against Redknapp in this thread are true, it really makes the stalinist propaganda that is propelling the 'Arry for England movement even more sinister. I would imagine The Sun has already crowned him, and the BBC appears to have reached a new low.

...and people complain that this website is one-sided.
Phil Martin
794   Posted 10/02/2012 at 15:06:23

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Why am i seeing ads for "Mature Dating" on here? I'm 33 and married to a 29yo. I dont need a 50 year old date (no offence), thanks.
Paul English
800   Posted 10/02/2012 at 15:16:38

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Why did moyes give McFadden a 6-month contract? He will get himself fit and get a free transfer at the end of the season, and has done our club no good whatsoever. Nudge nudge wink wink... jobs for the boys comes to mind. No wonder our beloved EvertonFC is losing money fast and nobody questions bad rank management.
James Cadwaladr
811   Posted 10/02/2012 at 16:57:40

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Anthony,

I dont mean to make any accusations against Redknapp. Hes been found not guilty, agree or not we should / have to see him as innnocent.

My point in my first post re percentage of transfer profits probably doesnt read that well. What I mean is they started to get put into managers contracts after the clampdown on bungs as a way of getting around it.

Broken dreams is a great read for anyone who hasnt - really goes into a lot of detail. Also The Beuatiful Game by David Conn - one of the most respected investigative journalists in the game. And also but on a different football subject The Foreign Revolution by Nick Harris.

On the Redknapp for England job. Personally I think yes, but not till after the Euros. I have a curve ball. We need an immediate impotus and I think that man is...........Gary Neville. - Knows most of the players, has huge respect from all the others, has played against the majority of our opponents for club and country at the highest level recently, has analysed nearly every prem game this season so sees plenty of English and Forgeign performances. Clearly a good tactician who doesnt suffer fools.

Why not employ him for 5 months as a caretaker with someone else like Hoddle involved.

It worked for Germany under Klinsmann - World cup Final, it worked for Wales with Speed - they scored more ranking points than any other nation in his tenure. Why not?
Stephen Kenny
813   Posted 10/02/2012 at 17:26:52

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Tony,

I think the Sky studio must have the comfiest chairs in the world. Once they go in they never seem to wanna come back out. I agree though.

For me there's no reason to appoint a manager for the tournament until the end of the season, it's not like were still in the qualifying rounds.

I like Redknapp and his handling of players. I get the feeling he's one of those managers who can make them feel 10ft tall. He also deals with the media in a way that all England managers need to, but don't. He'll need all those skills to get England anywhere near the final.

For that reason theres nobody else about to do the job and the FA will undoubtedly go with public opinion.
Dave Roberts
833   Posted 10/02/2012 at 19:14:18

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It doesn't matter who the England manager is, whether it's Hawwy or his very affluent and lamentably deceased dog.

Why?

Because the players are shite (I'll accept Rooney as an arguable exception)

Coates from the FA is now saying that Capello should have been sacked straight after the World Cup because the debacle was HIS fault! Whatever mistakes he may have made I'm bloody sure he didn't stop the players from being able to pass the ball 5 bleeding yards, restrict Barry to chasing Germans at no more than 25 yards per hour and telling Green to chuck the fucking ball in his own net. (et al)

As for Hawwy......he's just the reincarnation of Del boy. A typical East End wise guy, in it for the dosh, on the make and with a passing affection for football and, like Del boy, a seemingly lovable rogue. Being dragged to Court by HMRC almost assures a sympathetic Jury....allegedly.

If that's what the FA and the London media want, that's who they deserve. It'll all end in tears.
Andy Morden
849   Posted 10/02/2012 at 21:28:21

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If taking a cut of the profits on player sales is a common part of a managers contract in the Prem...

....then I think it is only fair that they have to pay the club back a percentage of any losses the club make on their signings. That may discourage them from buying whoppers. Like Simon Davies, James Beattie and Bily.
Mick Davies
892   Posted 11/02/2012 at 03:55:23

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OJ Simpson was found not guilty, but if that had been some poor guy from a deprived neighbourhood, he'd have fried years ago and no-one would bat an eyelid. Harry Redknapp is a very wealthy man and these people have the resources to be above the law. How many rich celebrities have had their obviously guilty driving offences thrown out of court thanks to Nick Freeman?

I for one think 'Arry should get the England job, he deserves it. He would be in good company as the whole regime, like the country it represents, is totally bent and corrupt, and if coppers take bribes off journos and editors get off with playing ignorance of serious cases of privacy invasion, then a cockney wide boy cheating the taxman is just par for the course...
Garry Martin
908   Posted 11/02/2012 at 08:52:10

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DM........10 years here & 1 cup final appearance.........speaks volumes about his abilty really. And he has had money to spend, HURRY UP ARRY TAKE THE ENGLAND & GIVE EFC SOMETHING TO LOOK FORWARD TO !!!
Dennis Stevens
910   Posted 11/02/2012 at 09:13:11

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No doubt Redknapp would also have taken a cut on the fee Pompey received from Spurs for his own transfer as manager. I suspect his credentials as 'wheeler-dealer' may count against him amongst some at the FA - too much of a Venables Mk II. I can't help thinking Hodgson may be seen as the safer & cleaner option.
Stephen Kenny
921   Posted 11/02/2012 at 10:12:43

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Harry Redknapp and his family are clearly all what I call 'Football Men'. I doubt he's in the game for anything other than a love of it. The money may be a motivating factor but I DOUBT it it's the biggest one.

If he wanted to make a killing he'd have gone to Newcastle, who at the time were the biggest basket case in the Prem. Rich pickings for players agent's and their friends.

The fact he's a cockney with a quick wit means he's typecast as up to no good. Clearly he's a bit of an arlarse when he fancies another clubs players and coming from an area similar to where most Evertonians are from he's probably done a bit of ducking and diving. So what?

If he get's a cut of a transfer fee it's because he's signed a player and developed them and made his club a profit. Probably not the best system but appears common through the league's. Barry Hearn, a club chairman, seemed more than happy with it when he was interviewed on Sky.

Some of the Faux-outrage on here is laughable.
Ray Robinson
947   Posted 11/02/2012 at 12:47:15

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Stephen, managers taking a cut from sale of players is an outrage, at best a conflict of interest, at worst a recipe for corruption. It drains money from the club too. I don't care if all managers do it. It should be banned. Not false outrage at all.

By the way, ever looked at the number of players transferring between Portsmouth and Tottenham?

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