Season 2011-12
The Mail Bag
Saha owes EFC a refund...
94 Comments: The debate over Moyes's handling of strikers will never be settled until we see him manage a team like Spurs and the results will tell us if we were too harsh on him and that he can play attacking football...
I blame the Yak's decline in an Everton jersey on Moyes and his ego and I'm very happy to see him doing well for Blackburn and hope he continues to help them in their fight to stay up.
But after watching yesterday's Spurs-Newcastle game I was left feeling cheated...
Saha's movement, finishing, passing and overall attitude was top class; good for him and Spurs. Although I want to wish him all the best like the Yak I can't bring myself to do it. Moyes never lost faith in him and gave him every opportunity to help us break out of our scoring slump.
I know a new team and surroundings will always give a player a lift but as a professional footballer Saha should be ashamed at the shifts he put in for us over the last 3-4 months.
I can only imagine where we could have been in the table if the 'Straq Ataq' had gained Moyes's confidence earlier in the season and was leading the line for us.
Jelavic will be an interesting test for Moyes and I hope he can be the 15 goals a season we need to keep up with the top of the league...
After yesterday's win I think finshing above Liverpool is looking possible
NSNO
Mohammed Horoub, Posted 12/02/2012 at 09:30:22
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I'd rather save judgement on Saha until the end of the season. He might not score again all year but he might score ten. Don't think you can really make a convincing argument one way or the other based on one game. I do think his own game will benefit, and he will score more, having better quality players around him (notice how Pienaar couldn't get a game but is one of the first names on the teamsheet for us?). But well done to him.
Ha Ha Ha . Now we are told how great dirty Arry is with strikers . .you couldnt make it up really.
Lets be clear here, Arry aint working on a shoestring. He has reduced a a striking partnership - Defoe and Pavlechenko - that cost thirty Million quid, to a pair of worthless fuckers who are sitting on the bench wondering if they`ll ever score again.
He is fucking Adebayours confidence too - how many sitters has he missed ?
Perhaps they all remember when Arry publicly destroyed Darren Bent, telling the world "my missus would have scored that"
That around 90 million quids worth there by the way, . .How much did Staq cost ?
The Spurs fans will look at Pienaar today and ask themselves, how can they win the league with this twat arry in charge ? . .he`s inhereted some brilliant players yet he seems to fuck every striker they have had.
AND why can Moyes get Pienaar playing with such flair When Arry was so clueless ?
Cant wait for Spurs to come. the same old pessimists will be on predicting disaster - like they were before the City and Chelsea games - but we`ll twat them too - again.
Is it really any wonder so many Spurs fans are calling for Moyes ?
Lets be clear here, Arry aint working on a shoestring. He has reduced a a striking partnership - Defoe and Pavlechenko - that cost thirty Million quid, to a pair of worthless fuckers who are sitting on the bench wondering if they`ll ever score again.
He is fucking Adebayours confidence too - how many sitters has he missed ?
Perhaps they all remember when Arry publicly destroyed Darren Bent, telling the world "my missus would have scored that"
That around 90 million quids worth there by the way, . .How much did Staq cost ?
The Spurs fans will look at Pienaar today and ask themselves, how can they win the league with this twat arry in charge ? . .he`s inhereted some brilliant players yet he seems to fuck every striker they have had.
AND why can Moyes get Pienaar playing with such flair When Arry was so clueless ?
Cant wait for Spurs to come. the same old pessimists will be on predicting disaster - like they were before the City and Chelsea games - but we`ll twat them too - again.
Is it really any wonder so many Spurs fans are calling for Moyes ?
Who cares about players at other clubs? Why is eveyrone hung up about Saha and Yakubu? Yes, they've got some goals for other clubs but they also scored for Everotn when they first arrived as well.
For whatever reason, be it 'Moyes destorys strikers' or that neither of them could be bothered in their final seasons with us, maybe they didn't fit into the system, whatever it was they weren't scoring at Everton so we shifted them out.
McFadden scored for scotland and Birmingham and Jutkiewicz scored the other ngiht but no one's going on about those. Ask yourself this, who would you rather have had up front today? Stracqualursi or Saha?
Concentrate on supporting the lads at the club rather than pining over players who quite frankly couldn't be bothered with the blue shirt by the end of thier time here.
For whatever reason, be it 'Moyes destorys strikers' or that neither of them could be bothered in their final seasons with us, maybe they didn't fit into the system, whatever it was they weren't scoring at Everton so we shifted them out.
McFadden scored for scotland and Birmingham and Jutkiewicz scored the other ngiht but no one's going on about those. Ask yourself this, who would you rather have had up front today? Stracqualursi or Saha?
Concentrate on supporting the lads at the club rather than pining over players who quite frankly couldn't be bothered with the blue shirt by the end of thier time here.
"Is it really any wonder so many Spurs fans are calling for Moyes ?" - er, where, show me, point me in the right direction, show me a single post by a spuds fan saying that they want Moyes just one, that's all. This is utter unmitigated crap; there is no callijng for Moyes at the Lane. They are very very very happy with good old 'Arry. Deary me, Dave Wilson, your disingenuous drivel is quite sad really.
And, more unadulterated crap: "The Spurs fans will look at Pienaar today and ask themselves, how can they win the league with this twat arry in charge? ... he`s inhereted some brilliant players yet he seems to fuck every striker they have had" Look at the fucking table lad:
Man Utd 25 36 58
Man City 24 44 57
Tottenham 25 24 53
Arsenal 25 13 43'
Spurs fans are pinching themselves right now. How many of them have you heard slamming 'Arry on 606 tonight? None. Not one. They love him and everyone else says that his team play some of the best footie, week-in and week-out.
Spurs fans are not expecting to win the Prem this year. They are delighted this minute. And 10 points above the Gooners to boot. Again, it's really simple, give me one example of a Spurs fan watching Steven Pienaar today who says that they will not win the title under 'Arry. They wiped the floor with the 6th placed team today. They won 5-0. You talk some utter bollocks, Dave Wilson, utter bollocks.
A word of advice for ya: next time you post, think about what you say first, get it all straight and true, and read it back to yourself before you press the submit comment button.
And, more unadulterated crap: "The Spurs fans will look at Pienaar today and ask themselves, how can they win the league with this twat arry in charge? ... he`s inhereted some brilliant players yet he seems to fuck every striker they have had" Look at the fucking table lad:
Man Utd 25 36 58
Man City 24 44 57
Tottenham 25 24 53
Arsenal 25 13 43'
Spurs fans are pinching themselves right now. How many of them have you heard slamming 'Arry on 606 tonight? None. Not one. They love him and everyone else says that his team play some of the best footie, week-in and week-out.
Spurs fans are not expecting to win the Prem this year. They are delighted this minute. And 10 points above the Gooners to boot. Again, it's really simple, give me one example of a Spurs fan watching Steven Pienaar today who says that they will not win the title under 'Arry. They wiped the floor with the 6th placed team today. They won 5-0. You talk some utter bollocks, Dave Wilson, utter bollocks.
A word of advice for ya: next time you post, think about what you say first, get it all straight and true, and read it back to yourself before you press the submit comment button.
Paul ? I think Dave's point was more in response to those blaming Moyes that Saha is doing better at Spurs than he was here. Just to point out that Pienaar is doing better here than at Spurs, so it washes both ways.
'McFadden scored for Scotland and Birmingham and Jutkiewicz scored the other night but no-one's going on about those.'
Jutkiewicz. Technically, a very good Premier League player. Fitness wise, a poor Conference player. Blowing out of his arse after 15 mins.
Jutkiewicz. Technically, a very good Premier League player. Fitness wise, a poor Conference player. Blowing out of his arse after 15 mins.
Working with a couple lads who support Spurs and believe me, Dave they're not calling for Moyes or anyone else ? they want Harry to stay.
They never rated Pavlechenko and were glad he's gone, Defoe and Pienaar have both been injured this season. Don't forget: Defoe has played under Harry with 3 clubs.
They never rated Pavlechenko and were glad he's gone, Defoe and Pienaar have both been injured this season. Don't forget: Defoe has played under Harry with 3 clubs.
Hmm ...
So - Are not Pavlechencko and Defoe NOT struggling to get a game, or score goals at the moment ?
Did they NOT cost in excess of 30 million quid ?
Did lots of Spurs fans NOT call for Moyes when a recent Talk Sport Phone in asked who would replace Arry if he takes the England job ?
Did Arry NOT famously humiliate Darren Bent by claiming "my missus would have scored that " shortly before fucking him off.
Did Darren Bent NOT respond by scoring many many goals after he `d gone - just like he had before he got there ?
Is Adaybyour NOT missing sitters every match .
Has Moyes NOT gotten more out of Pienaar in a couple of hours than Arry could all season ?
And has Paul Ferry # 151 NOT made himself look a little silly by spending so much time and energy trying to refute the irrefutable .
Words like "shooting" and "messenger "are whirling around me head . . or is that just "UTTER BOLLOCKS" ????
So - Are not Pavlechencko and Defoe NOT struggling to get a game, or score goals at the moment ?
Did they NOT cost in excess of 30 million quid ?
Did lots of Spurs fans NOT call for Moyes when a recent Talk Sport Phone in asked who would replace Arry if he takes the England job ?
Did Arry NOT famously humiliate Darren Bent by claiming "my missus would have scored that " shortly before fucking him off.
Did Darren Bent NOT respond by scoring many many goals after he `d gone - just like he had before he got there ?
Is Adaybyour NOT missing sitters every match .
Has Moyes NOT gotten more out of Pienaar in a couple of hours than Arry could all season ?
And has Paul Ferry # 151 NOT made himself look a little silly by spending so much time and energy trying to refute the irrefutable .
Words like "shooting" and "messenger "are whirling around me head . . or is that just "UTTER BOLLOCKS" ????
"And has Paul Ferry # 151 NOT made himself look a little silly by spending so much time and energy trying to refute the irrefutable."
No.
You have not answered either of my questions/requests because evidently you cannot. Your one-liners are laughable. Utterly laughable. Only one comes close to addressing what I said. And no, absolutely no, there was no flood of Spurs fans asking for Moyes and, listen carefully because this is important and you need to understand it, putting the question who would you like if 'Arry moved on is not the same thing as "Is it really any wonder so many Spurs fans are calling for Moyes?" Is it really, Mr Wilson? So, again, but more loudly this time, you are talking bollocks lad.
And by the way, you sound increasingly like Tunstead: "spending so much time and energy trying to refute the irrefutable" Vintage Turnstead, 'the irrefutable'. Irrefutable? Bollocks, like Turnstead you speak crap for the most part and then fall back on this bizarre absolutist rant.
Go to sleep lad; hope you feel better in the morning. And one last thing, think before you post and read it back before you post it.
No.
You have not answered either of my questions/requests because evidently you cannot. Your one-liners are laughable. Utterly laughable. Only one comes close to addressing what I said. And no, absolutely no, there was no flood of Spurs fans asking for Moyes and, listen carefully because this is important and you need to understand it, putting the question who would you like if 'Arry moved on is not the same thing as "Is it really any wonder so many Spurs fans are calling for Moyes?" Is it really, Mr Wilson? So, again, but more loudly this time, you are talking bollocks lad.
And by the way, you sound increasingly like Tunstead: "spending so much time and energy trying to refute the irrefutable" Vintage Turnstead, 'the irrefutable'. Irrefutable? Bollocks, like Turnstead you speak crap for the most part and then fall back on this bizarre absolutist rant.
Go to sleep lad; hope you feel better in the morning. And one last thing, think before you post and read it back before you post it.
Pienaar back to us; Saha to Spurs. Two good players who needed to be somewhere else for the last half of the season. Good luck to Saha and thank you.
Steven, all I can say to you is "welcome home". Everton is a good place to be even if you didn't know it.
I see Saha banged in a couple for Spurs yesterday.
Yep and Yakubu continues to score too. So what was Saha and Yakubu's common denominator for the unmotivated, lackluster, couldn't be arsed performances for Everton. Stand up Dour Davey and useless Round.
Good deal for everyone concerned. Only disappointment is that we will have to come up with some money to buy Pienaar in the summer, which is unlikely!
But it wasn't a SWAP was it Barrow Boy 'arry got Saha on a FREE and we got Peanuts back on LOAN and will have to pay 'arry £5.5M for a player 'arry paid £2.5M for just six months ago. Someone is" 'avin a laff "and it ain't Davey boy . Seems like Saha is already benefiting from playing for a positive motivational coach too just like Yakubu is at Blackburn.
I don't see what the issue is. Saha was out of contract in the summer, was never going to be offered a new deal and had been poor all season. Happy that he went, if he has a purple patch and Spurs offer him another 12 month deal great for him, but he was never going to get it at Everton nor should he.
I think Pienaar will come back for less. He has made his bed with Spurs, I can't see them being happy that he wanted out in the league position they are in, and he would probably only want to come to us in any case. I would think it would be nearer £4m than £6m, as he approaches 30 and wants us. Given our lack of creativity without him, he will be back in the summer. Puts a serious doubt against Drenthe - right age, right pedigree, pacey, but has disappointed me if I am honest. Donovan has created more assists in his brief time than the rest of the team put together including Royston.
I think Pienaar will come back for less. He has made his bed with Spurs, I can't see them being happy that he wanted out in the league position they are in, and he would probably only want to come to us in any case. I would think it would be nearer £4m than £6m, as he approaches 30 and wants us. Given our lack of creativity without him, he will be back in the summer. Puts a serious doubt against Drenthe - right age, right pedigree, pacey, but has disappointed me if I am honest. Donovan has created more assists in his brief time than the rest of the team put together including Royston.
Mike Jones, you are right in saying "Welcome home" to Steven Pienaar. I could barely believe it when he left.
He fits in to Everton perfectly. In David Moyes post-match BBC interview he alludes to exactly this point - some players, for no logical reason, seem to belong at certain clubs.
Pienaar belongs at Everton and we should do whatever is necessary to keep him.
I'm starting to get the same feeling about Stracqualursi, he looks like he has fallen in love with Everton and would be a great asset for us in the long term.
He fits in to Everton perfectly. In David Moyes post-match BBC interview he alludes to exactly this point - some players, for no logical reason, seem to belong at certain clubs.
Pienaar belongs at Everton and we should do whatever is necessary to keep him.
I'm starting to get the same feeling about Stracqualursi, he looks like he has fallen in love with Everton and would be a great asset for us in the long term.
It's not only finding the transfer fee for Pienaar, we will also have to fund his Spurs level wages which is why he left in the first place.
Peter Barry "Seems like Saha is already benefiting from playing for a positive motivational coach too just like Yakubu is at Blackburn."
Is this the same Blackburn coach with 8 wins and 23 defeats since he took over. Wow what a motivator he must be.
And tell me, how come Pienaar was pants at Spurs then but looks a good player again at us? Is it, cos Harry couldn't "motivate" him?
Is this the same Blackburn coach with 8 wins and 23 defeats since he took over. Wow what a motivator he must be.
And tell me, how come Pienaar was pants at Spurs then but looks a good player again at us? Is it, cos Harry couldn't "motivate" him?
Some hard ball bargining needs to be done. We made net £1.0mill on Pienaar (if you forget his past wages). We saved about 30 weeks @ £50k or £75k if we had paid him his 'Arteta money' ? £1.5mill or £2.25mill.
But Harry's £5mill leaves us well out of pocket. Hopefully he gets the England job and the new boss (same as the old boss?) is keen to clear the decks of excess baggage. Anything else and Pienaar is just a 4-month Donovan 'one-night stand' in footballing contract terms short and sweet and no regrets (yeah right).
Yet another vindication and victory for the Board's prudent financial policy [end sarcastic font].
What to do about it? Sad to say, more of the selling the family silver, who haven't me missed that much... Jags and Rodders.
But Harry's £5mill leaves us well out of pocket. Hopefully he gets the England job and the new boss (same as the old boss?) is keen to clear the decks of excess baggage. Anything else and Pienaar is just a 4-month Donovan 'one-night stand' in footballing contract terms short and sweet and no regrets (yeah right).
Yet another vindication and victory for the Board's prudent financial policy [end sarcastic font].
What to do about it? Sad to say, more of the selling the family silver, who haven't me missed that much... Jags and Rodders.
A lot of talk (understandably) about Saha & Yakubu. It doesn't matter about who we could afford. Even if Moyes had Saha and Adebayor in his squad, they wouldn't play together. One would substitute the other on the 70th minute mark. A Harry Redknapp team will always play far more attcking football then any David Moyes team. It's nothing to do with finance.
Spurs are magnificent to watch, and have been all season, they would not be with Moyes as manager.
Spurs are magnificent to watch, and have been all season, they would not be with Moyes as manager.
One thing to remember, he will not want to rot on the Spurs bench. "It was killing me"
So maybe he will be happy to take a pay cut...
But then again.
So maybe he will be happy to take a pay cut...
But then again.
Chris Leyland Pienaar was not good enough to crack the Spurs first team but is a shoo in at Everton. That tells you everything.
And Yakubu is scoring goals at Blackburn the fact that the team is not doing so well is not his fault but the fact that he was not motivated at to do so at Everton is Davey's.
And Yakubu is scoring goals at Blackburn the fact that the team is not doing so well is not his fault but the fact that he was not motivated at to do so at Everton is Davey's.
Peter,
Yak switches off after a couple of seasons at a club...he did it at Boro and at Pompey...you can try to revise history all you like but the fact is that he hadnt put a shift in for us in a long time and wasn't about to. Lets see if he's still banging them in for Blackburn this time next year.
Likewise Louis, that was his first full match, he's got a new challenge and he's the worlds biggest confidence player. He'll be pure gold for them for however long it takes for him to pick up a knock and get sidelined.....then he'll go off the boil.....get benched and the bubble bursts. We all KNOW what Saha is like.
Them performing because they are now under far superior managers is simply idiotic. Its nothing to do with it.
Yak switches off after a couple of seasons at a club...he did it at Boro and at Pompey...you can try to revise history all you like but the fact is that he hadnt put a shift in for us in a long time and wasn't about to. Lets see if he's still banging them in for Blackburn this time next year.
Likewise Louis, that was his first full match, he's got a new challenge and he's the worlds biggest confidence player. He'll be pure gold for them for however long it takes for him to pick up a knock and get sidelined.....then he'll go off the boil.....get benched and the bubble bursts. We all KNOW what Saha is like.
Them performing because they are now under far superior managers is simply idiotic. Its nothing to do with it.
Good assessment, Steve.
It's also woth pointing out with Piennar that we get the best of him because of Baines; likewise, Baines is a better player with Piennar close by. They offer much more together than separately, hence why Piennar was less effective at Spurs.
The whole is greater than the sum of the parts.
It's also woth pointing out with Piennar that we get the best of him because of Baines; likewise, Baines is a better player with Piennar close by. They offer much more together than separately, hence why Piennar was less effective at Spurs.
The whole is greater than the sum of the parts.
Pavlechenkos been sold ? . .ANOTHER striker who Redknap has fucked up. . Cue Pavs goal rush.
Not only has Redknap fucked up Pav and Defoe, he is in the process of fucking up Adaybayour.
These players all cost millions.
Darren bent scored 32 goals for Sunderland in a season and a half.once he`d broken free of runny egg faces shit approach with his strikers. .Even Peter Crouch is scoring again
Still Its not as if Arry got rid of Yakubu only to find he would score elswhere . . oh Hold on.He did, didnt he ? - didnt Yakubu score 50 goals in his next three seasons after Harry let him go ? (see what I`m doing here ?)
I`m not a bit bothered that people are asking me to forget that Redknap inherited world class players such as King, Moderic and Bale.
I`m not bothered that people are asking me to forget he inherited some very good players too - Dawson, Esso Ekoto, Lennon et al.
I`m not even bothered that people are asking me to forget that the disagreeable little twat has been given and squandered fortunes.
No what really bothers me. is people asking me to believe that Orrible Arrry has anything to do with Saha finding his shoortng boots.
The guy who has fucked more forwards than Marco Tardeli
The intrepid Redknap - the guy who nearly singlehandedly closed football on the south coast - will bring his team to GP shortly. You can bet your life he will shrink up to a 4-5-1.
The reason he will do this becuase he knows that the "negative Moyes has systematically twatted him in head to heads down the years.
The shifty little bastard
Not only has Redknap fucked up Pav and Defoe, he is in the process of fucking up Adaybayour.
These players all cost millions.
Darren bent scored 32 goals for Sunderland in a season and a half.once he`d broken free of runny egg faces shit approach with his strikers. .Even Peter Crouch is scoring again
Still Its not as if Arry got rid of Yakubu only to find he would score elswhere . . oh Hold on.He did, didnt he ? - didnt Yakubu score 50 goals in his next three seasons after Harry let him go ? (see what I`m doing here ?)
I`m not a bit bothered that people are asking me to forget that Redknap inherited world class players such as King, Moderic and Bale.
I`m not bothered that people are asking me to forget he inherited some very good players too - Dawson, Esso Ekoto, Lennon et al.
I`m not even bothered that people are asking me to forget that the disagreeable little twat has been given and squandered fortunes.
No what really bothers me. is people asking me to believe that Orrible Arrry has anything to do with Saha finding his shoortng boots.
The guy who has fucked more forwards than Marco Tardeli
The intrepid Redknap - the guy who nearly singlehandedly closed football on the south coast - will bring his team to GP shortly. You can bet your life he will shrink up to a 4-5-1.
The reason he will do this becuase he knows that the "negative Moyes has systematically twatted him in head to heads down the years.
The shifty little bastard
One thing that seems to remain unsaid is that Spurs have spent £350 million since 2003. £350 million!
It is no fucking surprise they're competing for the league, they've spent more money than Man Utd so they bloody well should be. If they weren't near the top with that money spent you'd wonder what the hell Harry was doing wrong.
Now, I know Michael K likes to tell us that money spent isn't an excuse for discrepancy in league positions and quality of football. If that's the case, I'd love him to explain why we have several leagues in this country (and every other, for that matter), in which the big spenders are at the top and those with nothing are at the bottom. According to Michael's regularly-churned-out argument, it shouldn't matter a jot: Halifax Town would be top of the Premier League if their manager got them playing positive football.
It is no fucking surprise they're competing for the league, they've spent more money than Man Utd so they bloody well should be. If they weren't near the top with that money spent you'd wonder what the hell Harry was doing wrong.
Now, I know Michael K likes to tell us that money spent isn't an excuse for discrepancy in league positions and quality of football. If that's the case, I'd love him to explain why we have several leagues in this country (and every other, for that matter), in which the big spenders are at the top and those with nothing are at the bottom. According to Michael's regularly-churned-out argument, it shouldn't matter a jot: Halifax Town would be top of the Premier League if their manager got them playing positive football.
Paul Foster, ''One thing that seems to remain unsaid is that Spurs have spent £350 million since 2003. £350 million!''
It's been mentioned on a few threads in last couple of days. The Moyes-can-do-no-right mob just tend to ignore it & it gets overlooked. One poster even asked us to look at 'what Harry has achieved at Spurs with relatively little money'. Beggars belief, really.
It's been mentioned on a few threads in last couple of days. The Moyes-can-do-no-right mob just tend to ignore it & it gets overlooked. One poster even asked us to look at 'what Harry has achieved at Spurs with relatively little money'. Beggars belief, really.
Great result yesterday, glad Pienaar is back, hopefully he continues with performances like that and makes it difficult for us to afford at the end of the season.
As for Saha, well you need strike partners if you want to score goals. Moyes's negative tactics (most recently the Wigan game + subs) had made me hate Saha, really hate him, but I think we can all see clearly that Saha's limited performances were simply down to bad tactics from Moyes and nothing to do with the player. (Yak + Beats + Johnson... etc, etc)
As for Saha, well you need strike partners if you want to score goals. Moyes's negative tactics (most recently the Wigan game + subs) had made me hate Saha, really hate him, but I think we can all see clearly that Saha's limited performances were simply down to bad tactics from Moyes and nothing to do with the player. (Yak + Beats + Johnson... etc, etc)
The other point that hasn't really been mentioned, Paul, is that before Harry got the Spurs job, he and Moyes had had 5 seasons during which they were both managers in the Premier League. In 4 out of 5 of those seasons, Moyes finished above Harry. In that time, Harry also got Southampton relegated.
Now, I think lack of finances at Southampton contributed to that, but obviously if 'money doesn't matter' it must just have been bad management. Interestingly, I don't think Harry had many financial constraints at Pompey; I honestly don't think Everton could have afforded players like Defoe and Crouch, at that time. But we still always finished above them.
Now, I think lack of finances at Southampton contributed to that, but obviously if 'money doesn't matter' it must just have been bad management. Interestingly, I don't think Harry had many financial constraints at Pompey; I honestly don't think Everton could have afforded players like Defoe and Crouch, at that time. But we still always finished above them.
"The difference I saw yesterday though, was Saha looked a different player, his movement was excellent, always looking for the ball in and around the box, that is what a striker should be doing."
I agree Brian, however, as I said earlier, I'd rather consider Saha's performances at the end of the season. I don't think you can make meaningful inferences on the basis of one game.
I agree Brian, however, as I said earlier, I'd rather consider Saha's performances at the end of the season. I don't think you can make meaningful inferences on the basis of one game.
* Especially when that 'one game' is the players home debut.
Totally agree with you Mark. It could just be the new club syndrome, so Saha has to be judged on his performances for the rest of the season.
As with every striker Arry fucks up. Adebayour`s decline has been gradual. he arrived a 30+ million striker come the end of the season nobody would pay a third of that.
How many has he scored recently?
Davey Moyes has been able to bring a better quality of player in and we are seeing the results.
Give him half decent players and he will give you results.
How many has he scored recently?
Davey Moyes has been able to bring a better quality of player in and we are seeing the results.
Give him half decent players and he will give you results.
Dave Wilson
I think saying 'appy 'arry has "fucked up" Adebayor is a little far fetched. I think he produced 4 assists yesterday and got a goal.
He may have not scored in a few games but if you ask Spurs fans (my boss is one) they will say he provides much more balance to the team.
Saha will thrive with Adebayor as a partner. However, with BK in charge we can never afford someone like Adebayor. He left Arsenal because of wages if I remember? He's on something like 100k+ at Madrid and Spurs are no doubt paying most of that with a nice loan fee on top.
On another matter, Saha's goal record with the blues was no disaster. He got something like 30 goals in 80 starts? Cost us 2m, repaid the outlay and was unlucky - got injured in March during the Fulham game when he was in the middle of a purple patch. Pretty sure he would have had a few more as there was something like 10 games to go to the end of the season. The 4 against Blackpool was one of the best performances by a Centre Forward I had seen at Goodison for a while.
He goes to Spurs with my best wishes, but, right now, I personally only care about those strikers who are still with us.
I think saying 'appy 'arry has "fucked up" Adebayor is a little far fetched. I think he produced 4 assists yesterday and got a goal.
He may have not scored in a few games but if you ask Spurs fans (my boss is one) they will say he provides much more balance to the team.
Saha will thrive with Adebayor as a partner. However, with BK in charge we can never afford someone like Adebayor. He left Arsenal because of wages if I remember? He's on something like 100k+ at Madrid and Spurs are no doubt paying most of that with a nice loan fee on top.
On another matter, Saha's goal record with the blues was no disaster. He got something like 30 goals in 80 starts? Cost us 2m, repaid the outlay and was unlucky - got injured in March during the Fulham game when he was in the middle of a purple patch. Pretty sure he would have had a few more as there was something like 10 games to go to the end of the season. The 4 against Blackpool was one of the best performances by a Centre Forward I had seen at Goodison for a while.
He goes to Spurs with my best wishes, but, right now, I personally only care about those strikers who are still with us.
Let's say Moyes has this 'ego' which people bring up. If it wasn't there, what would be different?
As for Saha's movement and finishing, has Harry shoved a fire cracker up his arse? No, he became a lazy sod. And when you can't be arsed, no wonder you start missing barn doors.
Jump to a conclusion why don't you. But if it means bashing the manager, who cares what bollocks people speak?
As for Saha's movement and finishing, has Harry shoved a fire cracker up his arse? No, he became a lazy sod. And when you can't be arsed, no wonder you start missing barn doors.
Jump to a conclusion why don't you. But if it means bashing the manager, who cares what bollocks people speak?
I think we were all frustrated in the end at Saha`s performances. Quite amazing that he got the nod week-in, week-out. But in his defence, he will never be a lone striker in a 4-5-1 system, and he never had a partner like Adebayor to play off.
Every striker that leaves EVERTON seems to get a lift. It must be like taking a backpack off, not having Moyes demanding defensive duties of them.
Saha has got a good start, but we definitely came best out of the deal. Pienaar will lift us towards the end of the season.
Every striker that leaves EVERTON seems to get a lift. It must be like taking a backpack off, not having Moyes demanding defensive duties of them.
Saha has got a good start, but we definitely came best out of the deal. Pienaar will lift us towards the end of the season.
Well said Mo and I agree with sentiments about the Yak and Lazy Louis.
Despite being a member of the MOB I don't really blame Moyes for falling out with the Yak and there's only one winner when manager and players fall out. If Moyes needs 100% in training to miximise the performance of a limited squad and the Yak never put the effort in, which we will all agree to be likely, then he can't play. I think the Yak needed a run after his injury which he never got but perhaps that's why?
Louis on the other hand was afforded almost unheard of chances by Moyes. despite a lack of almost everything needed to be worth a place in any PL side.
Not only was he a shithouse, he was a lazy shithouse that arguably didn't care if we won or lost. He was a good player for us at one point but when he went off the pay & play deal he seemed to give up the ghost.
That said, I don't think a player his age and with his history is ideal for the lone forward role. Still a minumum level you expect from every player and we never got it from him.
Despite being a member of the MOB I don't really blame Moyes for falling out with the Yak and there's only one winner when manager and players fall out. If Moyes needs 100% in training to miximise the performance of a limited squad and the Yak never put the effort in, which we will all agree to be likely, then he can't play. I think the Yak needed a run after his injury which he never got but perhaps that's why?
Louis on the other hand was afforded almost unheard of chances by Moyes. despite a lack of almost everything needed to be worth a place in any PL side.
Not only was he a shithouse, he was a lazy shithouse that arguably didn't care if we won or lost. He was a good player for us at one point but when he went off the pay & play deal he seemed to give up the ghost.
That said, I don't think a player his age and with his history is ideal for the lone forward role. Still a minumum level you expect from every player and we never got it from him.
'I can only imagine where we could have been in the table if the 'Stracq Atacq' had gained Moyes's confidence earlier in the season and was leading the line for us.'
It's nothing to do with Moyes confidence, more about Stracq's fitness and learning. It's well understood that Stracq has beeen working like a trooper in training. Moyes played him because he was ready.
It's nothing to do with Moyes confidence, more about Stracq's fitness and learning. It's well understood that Stracq has beeen working like a trooper in training. Moyes played him because he was ready.
Tony Cheek: "Every striker that leaves EVERTON seems to get a lift."
Erm what did Beattie do after he left? What about Radzinski? Andy Johnson hasn't exactly been banging them in since Moyes sold him to Fulham has he? Saha has played one game and scored 2 goals but lets reserve judgement on him until a few more games have lapsed. Vaughan hasnt been seen since leaving us and Beckford has dropped down a division to his level. So that leaves the Yak as the only one who has actually performed bettter.
Erm what did Beattie do after he left? What about Radzinski? Andy Johnson hasn't exactly been banging them in since Moyes sold him to Fulham has he? Saha has played one game and scored 2 goals but lets reserve judgement on him until a few more games have lapsed. Vaughan hasnt been seen since leaving us and Beckford has dropped down a division to his level. So that leaves the Yak as the only one who has actually performed bettter.
Louis Saha is 33 yrs old and cannot play on his own up front. Even a colour blind llama on Prozac could see that. What do Spurs do? They play attacking football, and support the striker'S. Yes, Adebayor assisted Saha and that's what happens. Why Moyes refuses to play 2 strikers is beyond me. We must be one of the lowest scorers in the league and when Yak becomes one of the PL's leading scorers at one of the worst clubs, and even Beckford is banging hat tricks in, it makes me wonder what Moyes, Round, Holden, Stubbs, and Lumsden contribute to our sides attacking play. Not one former striker amongst them, that is probably the problem
The Yak scores now because he is a player who NEEDS to move and get a new challenge, Look at his career. He loves a move. He scores well after every move.
Saha has done well in one game, don't get carried away, however, if he does continue it will be down to the fact he is in a top team with much better players, at a club where there is a great atmosphere and where the entire weight of goalscoring is not on his shoulders. Hes a bit of a fairy to be fair, is Saha. I don't think he handles pressure well and seems to be knocked, physically and emotionally by almost anything. I can just see 'Arry telling him how great he is and how he will score, something I just cannot imagine Moyes doing to the same effect.
Saha has done well in one game, don't get carried away, however, if he does continue it will be down to the fact he is in a top team with much better players, at a club where there is a great atmosphere and where the entire weight of goalscoring is not on his shoulders. Hes a bit of a fairy to be fair, is Saha. I don't think he handles pressure well and seems to be knocked, physically and emotionally by almost anything. I can just see 'Arry telling him how great he is and how he will score, something I just cannot imagine Moyes doing to the same effect.
I'd love to see how a proven finisher like Jelavic could benefit from having a workhorse powerhouse like Straq along side him. Cahill just isn't doing the job anymore and I think with his strength and hold up play, big Den could be a great foil for our Croat.
Wait until Dave Wilson gets hold of this thread and posts something; he has been writing complete unmitigated crap about Saha/Spurs/Moyes in the last twelve hours or so. Apparently, according to Professor Wilson, Spurs fans are desperately lining up to call for Moyes to go to the Lane in a massive outpouring of Moyes Madness. Total utter shite.
Here's the most recent:
"with every striker Arry fucks up. Adebayour`s decline has been gradual. he arrived a 30+ million striker come the end of the season nobody would pay a third of that. How many has he scored recently?" Anyone watch the game yesyerday. Adebayour was top-drawer, making three, scoring one, and putting in a display the like of which I am struggliung to remember wheb I saw something simialr from one of ours up front. Erm, Dave Wilson, recently, he scored one yesterday. And given the general glowing hysteria from you and others after Big Vics recent revival, old Abe looks like a towering colossus. I suspect that most evertonians would have him at the Old Lady in a heartbeat.
Here's the most recent:
"with every striker Arry fucks up. Adebayour`s decline has been gradual. he arrived a 30+ million striker come the end of the season nobody would pay a third of that. How many has he scored recently?" Anyone watch the game yesyerday. Adebayour was top-drawer, making three, scoring one, and putting in a display the like of which I am struggliung to remember wheb I saw something simialr from one of ours up front. Erm, Dave Wilson, recently, he scored one yesterday. And given the general glowing hysteria from you and others after Big Vics recent revival, old Abe looks like a towering colossus. I suspect that most evertonians would have him at the Old Lady in a heartbeat.
From what I've seen of Yak's goals so far, he hasn't had to run anywhere to get them. Saha's goals yesterday, similarly, just required him to turn up. I've watched Saha game after game simply not bothering to turn up. Nothing to do with 'defensive duties' - its called "hiding" in the game, being on the half-way line when you should be near the box.
Yak and Saha - new club, new system, new attitude, good luck to them.
Moyes has quite rightly been accused of attacking ineptitude. The system he prefers needs a 'hungry' front man from Marcus Bent to Denis Stracqualursi. Saha, and particularly the Yak, could never be described as hungry. More like 'put it on a plate, and I'll eat it.
I'm glad that Moyes at least saw the error of his ways a few weeks ago and then decided to ship Saha out. But it took an awfully long time for him to see what was going on.
Yak and Saha - new club, new system, new attitude, good luck to them.
Moyes has quite rightly been accused of attacking ineptitude. The system he prefers needs a 'hungry' front man from Marcus Bent to Denis Stracqualursi. Saha, and particularly the Yak, could never be described as hungry. More like 'put it on a plate, and I'll eat it.
I'm glad that Moyes at least saw the error of his ways a few weeks ago and then decided to ship Saha out. But it took an awfully long time for him to see what was going on.
Chris Leyland spot on mate.
Kieran,
Keeping Drenthe and signing Pienaar and Strac would be marvelous business for me this summer. Two of those players would also most likely go up in value by a good few million.
Keeping Drenthe and signing Pienaar and Strac would be marvelous business for me this summer. Two of those players would also most likely go up in value by a good few million.
Adebyoor's decline is even more rapid than I thought.
Apparently scoring The fifth goal against an all ready routed Newcastle was the first he`s scored in a dozen games since Chrimbo -Thats two less than Vic - who must have played all of three hours, and less than Straq whos played about 4
Incredible really to think he arrived as a 30m + player in scoring for fun, his scoring exploits really have fallen off a cliff.
I`d fancy myself to get more than that in Modric, Lennon and Bale were putting it on a plate for me.
Mind you I wouldnt mind him here at GP.
If Moyes can get 5 goals out of a couple of freebies what would he get out of a 30m+ striker.
Aryy boy has a lot to answer for, statistics prove he really does fuck his strikers up and they dont really recover until they have gone . .and we thought Moyes was bad
Apparently scoring The fifth goal against an all ready routed Newcastle was the first he`s scored in a dozen games since Chrimbo -Thats two less than Vic - who must have played all of three hours, and less than Straq whos played about 4
Incredible really to think he arrived as a 30m + player in scoring for fun, his scoring exploits really have fallen off a cliff.
I`d fancy myself to get more than that in Modric, Lennon and Bale were putting it on a plate for me.
Mind you I wouldnt mind him here at GP.
If Moyes can get 5 goals out of a couple of freebies what would he get out of a 30m+ striker.
Aryy boy has a lot to answer for, statistics prove he really does fuck his strikers up and they dont really recover until they have gone . .and we thought Moyes was bad
If Pienaar carries on like he did yesterday, Spurs would want about £6m for him.
Have you been at the Gin again Dave?
Happy for you to tell me which bit isn't true, Brian.
Peter Barry: "Seems like Saha is already benefiting from playing for a positive motivational coach too just like Yakubu is at Blackburn."
Wasnt arry in court for the last two weeks? If so he must be a miracle worker to have motivated Saha.
Wasnt arry in court for the last two weeks? If so he must be a miracle worker to have motivated Saha.
Arrys made good only because of the massive sums Spurs have put in over the past three seasons, Prior to that, on a more modest budget, his record in the top division like eveyone else outside the money clubs, was inferior to Moyes.
Imagine if we could have had Modrich or even Parker next to Fellaini. Nice work if you can get it.
Imagine if we could have had Modrich or even Parker next to Fellaini. Nice work if you can get it.
For whatever reason Saha was done at Everton.The move has done him good but I don't believe he will ever be a prolific goal scorer. A good move for everyone.
Harry Redknapp is flavour of the month at the moment but he spends huge money and always has.
Different subject but is anyone else disgusted at the utter spinelessness of the BBC. King Kenny turns on Sky because they have the impudence to ask him a pertinent question; so, the BBC agree that he can only talk about football.He should have been asked to condemn Suirez's refusal to shake hands, asked it repeatedly until he snapped and revealed himself for what he is:
a wizened,hatchet faced, inarticulate little bully,totally devoid of charm, integrity and decency.
Harry Redknapp is flavour of the month at the moment but he spends huge money and always has.
Different subject but is anyone else disgusted at the utter spinelessness of the BBC. King Kenny turns on Sky because they have the impudence to ask him a pertinent question; so, the BBC agree that he can only talk about football.He should have been asked to condemn Suirez's refusal to shake hands, asked it repeatedly until he snapped and revealed himself for what he is:
a wizened,hatchet faced, inarticulate little bully,totally devoid of charm, integrity and decency.
I think Spurs will look to appoint a high profile name like Jose, Hiddink or Capello. If they cannot get either three then I can see them going straight for Moyes.
I do believe that Saha plays best with another striker. He's top class on his day. However he was asked to play has a lone striker. He hardly ever got any decent service. It might of been different now with Pienaar and back. When Beckford and Saha played up top together they were both banging in the goals. Saha likes to come deep to get the ball then bring other players into play. It was the right time for Saha to move as his talents were being wasted. I hope he does very well there.
I do believe that Saha plays best with another striker. He's top class on his day. However he was asked to play has a lone striker. He hardly ever got any decent service. It might of been different now with Pienaar and back. When Beckford and Saha played up top together they were both banging in the goals. Saha likes to come deep to get the ball then bring other players into play. It was the right time for Saha to move as his talents were being wasted. I hope he does very well there.
The reason Yakubu and Saha are and will do well is that they are out and out strikers, who play off another front man. There job is to be in and around the box waiting on chances to be fed to them. The didn't do great here as Moyes demands the hard work ethic of tracking back and playing deep. I do think Moyes has finally found the player that he's been crying out for for years in Straq.The kid doesn't stop running and is all over the pitch, holding up play and causing mayhem with defenses. We haven't had someone like this since Bent .
Dave Wilson, if one of these mystical interested parties did ever come to fruition I would love to see Adebayor at Everton with Harry as manager, they are both light years ahead of anything we have at the moment
Dave Wilson #321..
Some fantastic shouts there mate..
Single-handely closed football on the south coast... so true.
He has managed in his time..
Pompey
Saints
Bournemouth
All financially shafted in recent years.
Andy Crooks#458
Im happy with the Suarez thing... Liverpool are being found out. About time the reputation got tarnished... Leave them to dig... and dont get involved.
COYB.
Some fantastic shouts there mate..
Single-handely closed football on the south coast... so true.
He has managed in his time..
Pompey
Saints
Bournemouth
All financially shafted in recent years.
Andy Crooks#458
Im happy with the Suarez thing... Liverpool are being found out. About time the reputation got tarnished... Leave them to dig... and dont get involved.
COYB.
I agree with Kristian
"Arrys made good only because of the massive sums Spurs have put in over the past three seasons"
Spurs have actually made more money in player sales in the last three seasons:
09/10:
Players bought: £32m.
Players sold: £26.5m
10/11:
Players bought: £18.5m
Players sold: £1m
11/12:
Players bought: £8m
Players sold: £35m.
So Redknapp has spent £58.5m in the last three seasons, but recouped £62.5m so it's not like he's been on a reckless City style cash spunking spree is it?
Spurs have actually made more money in player sales in the last three seasons:
09/10:
Players bought: £32m.
Players sold: £26.5m
10/11:
Players bought: £18.5m
Players sold: £1m
11/12:
Players bought: £8m
Players sold: £35m.
So Redknapp has spent £58.5m in the last three seasons, but recouped £62.5m so it's not like he's been on a reckless City style cash spunking spree is it?
A huge part of Spurs success is their style of play. On days like yesterday, nobody in the world could stop them
John Daley #495..
You would think Harry got a bonus for player sales reading that.. cough.. cough...
You would think Harry got a bonus for player sales reading that.. cough.. cough...
Interesting observation John #495, but when you consider their net spend of ~£20m in 08/09, £34m in 07/08, £24m in 06/07 and £18m in 05/06 (sum: nearly £100m) you can see why he had/has the value in his squad which should mean he can sell to buy.
Actually add to those figures the sum, net spend of ~ £23m between 2009 - 2011 and thats over £120m, which I would say isn't a million miles away from being 'reckless'. No wonder he had to mak a profit this season. I'd be interested to see if they do have to recoup more of that money, and what effect that will have.
I feel that we are denigrating our club by comparing Moyes and that crook Rednapp. Its all about the money and less about the football to that man.
Moyes's record is far superior to his, yes he has his faults just like every other manager. However I've always thought that every club happy 'arry' manages he leaves in a bloody mess. Its like a champ manager with him swopping in players left right and centre for stupid sums and big wages. Well at least we know why, I dont actually think he's too bothered about who plays for his team BUT how much money he can make on that player he's just brought in.
Moyes's record is far superior to his, yes he has his faults just like every other manager. However I've always thought that every club happy 'arry' manages he leaves in a bloody mess. Its like a champ manager with him swopping in players left right and centre for stupid sums and big wages. Well at least we know why, I dont actually think he's too bothered about who plays for his team BUT how much money he can make on that player he's just brought in.
Andrew Ellams, if we had spent NET £100m in the past five years and assembled a team consisting Modric, Bale, Adebayor, Parker, Walker et al. I would expect them to play just like that. Not taking anything away from HR, I think he is doing a good job at Spurs, but if they were not challenging for a champions league spot I think I'd be asking questions.
A selling club, which is what we are until Big Daddy Oilbags comes along, is doing amazingly well to have Fellaini, Heitinga, Baines and Jagielka on its books. I hope that Abramovich wasn't there on Saturday as he would possibly have ordered the rouble machine to buy the three he saw.
Talking about money spent in this league is totally futile. The books have to be balanced - which apparently 'Appy 'Arry doesn't have to do, according to the jury. He can't even read or write any better than Rosie the dog.
I was attracted to this thread because I do think Louis Saha owes us a few months wages. But I would also ask David Moyes
- did you ask him to play on the half-way line (not in a tackling position of course)?
- did you ask him to use his undoubted skills to consistently miscontrol to give the ball away (in his preferred position somewhere near the half-way line)?
- why did it take you so long to see what was so fucking obvious,?
In the end it looks like no harm done, if Pienaar coming back really has anything to do with that (which I doubt somehow). Spurs can celebrate their new goalscorer. Prem defenders have been allerted to to a new threat - watch your ankles Louis.
This season from my seat I've seen Baines put in good crosses or cut backs into the box about - what? 30 times. Where was the striker? Gone fishing. Bring on an appetite - Strac's got one, Vellios and Vic have, I really hope that Jelovic has. Saha? Nowhere near.
Talking about money spent in this league is totally futile. The books have to be balanced - which apparently 'Appy 'Arry doesn't have to do, according to the jury. He can't even read or write any better than Rosie the dog.
I was attracted to this thread because I do think Louis Saha owes us a few months wages. But I would also ask David Moyes
- did you ask him to play on the half-way line (not in a tackling position of course)?
- did you ask him to use his undoubted skills to consistently miscontrol to give the ball away (in his preferred position somewhere near the half-way line)?
- why did it take you so long to see what was so fucking obvious,?
In the end it looks like no harm done, if Pienaar coming back really has anything to do with that (which I doubt somehow). Spurs can celebrate their new goalscorer. Prem defenders have been allerted to to a new threat - watch your ankles Louis.
This season from my seat I've seen Baines put in good crosses or cut backs into the box about - what? 30 times. Where was the striker? Gone fishing. Bring on an appetite - Strac's got one, Vellios and Vic have, I really hope that Jelovic has. Saha? Nowhere near.
Chris #374 "Erm what did Beattie do after he left?"
Became the leading goalscorer in the Championship I recall, something he put down to having good service from 2 wingers.
Became the leading goalscorer in the Championship I recall, something he put down to having good service from 2 wingers.
Jamie Tulacz ? I'm with Paul... Pienaar couldn't even buy a game at Spurs but goes straight in to our team. So you can't make that comparison.
Meanwhile, Saha went straight in to the Spurs team and plays a blinder. So Barrow Boy 'Arry obviously MOTIVATED him and played the right players around him.
Every time Depressing Dour Davey played him, he had no support, was told we were playing giants and had to TRACK BACK, and was told "just play for the draw and hope to snatch one" ? like all the teams Tactics-Devoid Davey puts out.
Meanwhile, Saha went straight in to the Spurs team and plays a blinder. So Barrow Boy 'Arry obviously MOTIVATED him and played the right players around him.
Every time Depressing Dour Davey played him, he had no support, was told we were playing giants and had to TRACK BACK, and was told "just play for the draw and hope to snatch one" ? like all the teams Tactics-Devoid Davey puts out.
Moyes or Redknapp???
It's difficult to compare any two managers IMO as most clubs will be in very different financial and player situations.
It's one the Moyes supporter's use to denigrate other managers when possible replacments are mooted I.e Holloway, but it's also used by the other side unfairly at times.
Redknapp inherited a very good squad with a lot of value in it. This gave him an opportunity to reshape it without spending vast sums. Moyes had a lot of poor players well past thier best. He's also had a fair amount of time to build, which counts in a league where managers are in a constant state of flux.
The type of player you can attract is also dependant on the wages you can pay. In that regard Redknapp has a clear advantage.
I would say that Redknapp has maximised what is available to him and despite Spurs relative wealth he is doing well to compete with clubs whose resources far outweigh his own. Should Spurs finish in the top 2 I would consider that the equal of Moyes 4th place finish. They have also won a cup and secured memorable results that will most likely go down in their history.
I would also say that Moyes has, for a lot of his reign, maximised the resources available to him. The manner in which this has been done hasn't always been easy on the eye, but you get what you pay for and we don't pay for much.
The only exception to that has been the past two season's. 7th is probably where we should have finished but I felt like we were capable of more and had the squad to really achieve something
This is still the same for me this season. We have been atrocious despite still having some quality players. Two good wins have put a nice gloss on things but the Wigan game shows we can easily fall back to our previous level of performance, one which ever decreasing amounts of fans are willing to pay to watch.
A more adventurous manager may have seen us higher up the table, they may have seen us lower but at least we may be able to look forward to going the match a bit more,
All Redknapps sides play good football with the emphasis on attacking play and the same can't be said of Moyes.
In summary with Moyes you can't moan about where you get to, just how you get there.
It's difficult to compare any two managers IMO as most clubs will be in very different financial and player situations.
It's one the Moyes supporter's use to denigrate other managers when possible replacments are mooted I.e Holloway, but it's also used by the other side unfairly at times.
Redknapp inherited a very good squad with a lot of value in it. This gave him an opportunity to reshape it without spending vast sums. Moyes had a lot of poor players well past thier best. He's also had a fair amount of time to build, which counts in a league where managers are in a constant state of flux.
The type of player you can attract is also dependant on the wages you can pay. In that regard Redknapp has a clear advantage.
I would say that Redknapp has maximised what is available to him and despite Spurs relative wealth he is doing well to compete with clubs whose resources far outweigh his own. Should Spurs finish in the top 2 I would consider that the equal of Moyes 4th place finish. They have also won a cup and secured memorable results that will most likely go down in their history.
I would also say that Moyes has, for a lot of his reign, maximised the resources available to him. The manner in which this has been done hasn't always been easy on the eye, but you get what you pay for and we don't pay for much.
The only exception to that has been the past two season's. 7th is probably where we should have finished but I felt like we were capable of more and had the squad to really achieve something
This is still the same for me this season. We have been atrocious despite still having some quality players. Two good wins have put a nice gloss on things but the Wigan game shows we can easily fall back to our previous level of performance, one which ever decreasing amounts of fans are willing to pay to watch.
A more adventurous manager may have seen us higher up the table, they may have seen us lower but at least we may be able to look forward to going the match a bit more,
All Redknapps sides play good football with the emphasis on attacking play and the same can't be said of Moyes.
In summary with Moyes you can't moan about where you get to, just how you get there.
In The Times this morning Tony Cascarino says that it is all Moyes's fault that forwards leave us and then shine elsewhere.
BUT you cannot blame Moyes for Saha not trying - I know that Moyes is the manager but Saha has been taking the piss this season.
BUT you cannot blame Moyes for Saha not trying - I know that Moyes is the manager but Saha has been taking the piss this season.
Moyes has worked with what he's had. However alot of strikers will struggle as a lone front man in a perrenial 4-5-1.
This formation can be fine as long as you have two wide players/wingers supplying good balls into the striker or a football playmaker playing just behind the front man providing through balls.
The problem is until this season we've always had a problem with width and the player playing off the front man has not been the creative style of footballer we need,(Cahill's a fine player but not a chance maker).
Moyes' preferred 4-5-1 didn't always lend itself to the personnel he has had available. I agree though Saha has been a lazy bastard this season
This formation can be fine as long as you have two wide players/wingers supplying good balls into the striker or a football playmaker playing just behind the front man providing through balls.
The problem is until this season we've always had a problem with width and the player playing off the front man has not been the creative style of footballer we need,(Cahill's a fine player but not a chance maker).
Moyes' preferred 4-5-1 didn't always lend itself to the personnel he has had available. I agree though Saha has been a lazy bastard this season
Say what you like but I would Take Moyes over Mr Melty face anyday.
Appy Harry is a money grabbing shit house whos attacking football is also backed by his innate ability to financially run clubs into the ground and then when it gets messy to jump ship and leave em in the shit.
But we all love Arry.
He will be found out big time when he has to deal with the twatish spice boys in teh national team.
Appy Harry is a money grabbing shit house whos attacking football is also backed by his innate ability to financially run clubs into the ground and then when it gets messy to jump ship and leave em in the shit.
But we all love Arry.
He will be found out big time when he has to deal with the twatish spice boys in teh national team.
"In The Times this morning Tony Cascarino says that it is all Moyes's fault that forwards leave us and then shine elsewhere." - Who?
Yak, yep give you that one but we all know when he wants a move he doesn't play for you.
Saha, scored 2 in a game, lets see what else he does for the remaining 14 games.
Beckford, just started scoring in the Championship after being dropped for a kid
Vaughan, injured.... again
Radzinski, who?
Andy Johnson, what are his stats at Fulham?
Meattie, one decent season in the Fizzy pop league and I don't think he has scored in over a year has he? Couldn't even score at Rangers.
Bent, playing some dodgy league somewhere?
That's all the strikers who have left us... Only one has done well since.
We are usually the highlight of a strikers career because we can't buy superstars.
Yak, yep give you that one but we all know when he wants a move he doesn't play for you.
Saha, scored 2 in a game, lets see what else he does for the remaining 14 games.
Beckford, just started scoring in the Championship after being dropped for a kid
Vaughan, injured.... again
Radzinski, who?
Andy Johnson, what are his stats at Fulham?
Meattie, one decent season in the Fizzy pop league and I don't think he has scored in over a year has he? Couldn't even score at Rangers.
Bent, playing some dodgy league somewhere?
That's all the strikers who have left us... Only one has done well since.
We are usually the highlight of a strikers career because we can't buy superstars.
Yes Tony but you're missing the point, that lot cost a net spend of around 38 quid.
Cascarino should Know what he`s talking about, he played for lots of different managers covering just about every different approach to the game imaginable... and he was dogshit for all of them.
Cascarino should Know what he`s talking about, he played for lots of different managers covering just about every different approach to the game imaginable... and he was dogshit for all of them.
To be fair, I think Marcus Bent played out of his skin for us!
With the exception of Yakubu I have no problem with any of Moyes's striker sales. Whether or not they were good buys in the first place is a matter of opinion. However,what ever issues I have with Moyes I will respect his views over Tony fucking Cascarino any day of the week.Second rate player and irrelevant pundit.
Saha plays the second striker role well when he has a partner who plays up top. The Saha-Cahill partnership never worked for that reason they both like to drop off the defence into the same space. Saha-Beckford partnership worked (the few times it was played) due to Beckford playing off the last man and creating space for Saha.
Match of the day highlighted this with the Saha-Adebayor partnership. Its not rocket science and its a big failing of Moyes to persistently stick with a partnership that just wasn't going to work.
Match of the day highlighted this with the Saha-Adebayor partnership. Its not rocket science and its a big failing of Moyes to persistently stick with a partnership that just wasn't going to work.
Tony - what , no Rooney!!!!!!!!!!!
Peter Barry (577)
Give it up with the D D D D ? it's fucking boring and tedious!
Give it up with the D D D D ? it's fucking boring and tedious!
Moyes record on transfers in generally good, it's not perfect, but most signings have performed well for the team, and overall Moyes net spent has been below £10m, it's hard to be exact as undisclosed fees blur the accounts. But all league tables of transfers put Everton around 16th and Tot in the top 5.
Harry record in the transfer market is hardly amazing has made some shocking decisions Marco Boogers being the first, never seen him play, over pays for the forward who was shocking. Harrys other forward/right winger also signed for west ham was Florin Răducioiu, another shocking purchase. Others have pointed out his more recent record.
Moyes, I think, sits in a rock and a hard place. The cheapest player, normally, to buy on the pitch is the keeper, then as you move up the team they cost more. There have been the odd exception but average cost of a forward compared to a centre back is a lot more. So given Moyes limited funds what does he do, buy a forward who might get a goal or a couple of defenders and a midfielder? History has said he has gone with the latter, and you can understand why. Even if we did buy the best forward in the world, he needs to have the players to support him otherwise he is going to look rubbish. Just look at Man City, they didn?t just buy Tevez. Moyes has slowly and is slowly buying a team, which can support a decent forward. Good attacking players cost money, lots of money, and history has told us that expensive players don't always work out, would Moyes paying £31m for Berbatov be a good signing? Or £9m for Crouch, what about £10m for Bent or £12m for Keane? What about £35m for Carroll or £50m for Torres? Would they be great signings?
The problem with forwards is they cost a lot money, and often that money will be wasted, taking a punt on a player who does not work out. It's not often we see forwards bought for under £3m go onto become £10m plus. Forwards who score cost and if the player is not scoring then why would you want to buy him? I think this makes it very hard for Moyes, he gets criticised for buying good defenders saying he is too defensive, but if he spent all his money on forwards he would get criticised for being wasteful and getting us regulated. Everton finances mean that we have to wait and hope, hope that we pick up a player like Cahill, Arteta or Pienaar who costs little but has ability, or one comes out the youth who wants to stay.
I know that people will say but hang on the Yak was not free or cheap, and you would be right. But the Yak was a good signing he banged in 21 goals in his first season, then got injured and was never the same for us, and yes he has done well at Blackburn, and maybe we should have kept him. But if the Yak is all we can throw at Moyes I don?t think we have must to complain about. He has built a good solid team, they are not world-beaters but 2 managers of the year tell me we might have a world-beating manager.
Harry record in the transfer market is hardly amazing has made some shocking decisions Marco Boogers being the first, never seen him play, over pays for the forward who was shocking. Harrys other forward/right winger also signed for west ham was Florin Răducioiu, another shocking purchase. Others have pointed out his more recent record.
Moyes, I think, sits in a rock and a hard place. The cheapest player, normally, to buy on the pitch is the keeper, then as you move up the team they cost more. There have been the odd exception but average cost of a forward compared to a centre back is a lot more. So given Moyes limited funds what does he do, buy a forward who might get a goal or a couple of defenders and a midfielder? History has said he has gone with the latter, and you can understand why. Even if we did buy the best forward in the world, he needs to have the players to support him otherwise he is going to look rubbish. Just look at Man City, they didn?t just buy Tevez. Moyes has slowly and is slowly buying a team, which can support a decent forward. Good attacking players cost money, lots of money, and history has told us that expensive players don't always work out, would Moyes paying £31m for Berbatov be a good signing? Or £9m for Crouch, what about £10m for Bent or £12m for Keane? What about £35m for Carroll or £50m for Torres? Would they be great signings?
The problem with forwards is they cost a lot money, and often that money will be wasted, taking a punt on a player who does not work out. It's not often we see forwards bought for under £3m go onto become £10m plus. Forwards who score cost and if the player is not scoring then why would you want to buy him? I think this makes it very hard for Moyes, he gets criticised for buying good defenders saying he is too defensive, but if he spent all his money on forwards he would get criticised for being wasteful and getting us regulated. Everton finances mean that we have to wait and hope, hope that we pick up a player like Cahill, Arteta or Pienaar who costs little but has ability, or one comes out the youth who wants to stay.
I know that people will say but hang on the Yak was not free or cheap, and you would be right. But the Yak was a good signing he banged in 21 goals in his first season, then got injured and was never the same for us, and yes he has done well at Blackburn, and maybe we should have kept him. But if the Yak is all we can throw at Moyes I don?t think we have must to complain about. He has built a good solid team, they are not world-beaters but 2 managers of the year tell me we might have a world-beating manager.
Anyone thought Saha played better because he was surrounded by better players, and on one game... little early to judge. Personally I wish him well and would prefer to focus on what we have.
In response to Saha:
Yes, you are right, Moyes did give him every chance by playing him! But if you saw Saha, he was linking up with a very simular type player and they played off each other like they had been playing together for years...
Be honest did he ever play with anyone like that at Everton? And if he did, was it 4-4-2 or one of Moyes`s special systems 4-5-1 or 4-6-0 even.
Do you really think its a coincidence that most of our strikers over the last 10 years have left us after playing for nearly a season without being able to score? Andy Johnson, The Yak, Saha, just to name a few, all came and have now left.
Granted its early days as of yet but I think Saha has done the only thing he could, said thanks to the fans and Moved on! Are you watching David Moyes! Oh By the way any chance of a refund seeing that you agree you wouldn't have paid to watch that drivell either?
Yes, you are right, Moyes did give him every chance by playing him! But if you saw Saha, he was linking up with a very simular type player and they played off each other like they had been playing together for years...
Be honest did he ever play with anyone like that at Everton? And if he did, was it 4-4-2 or one of Moyes`s special systems 4-5-1 or 4-6-0 even.
Do you really think its a coincidence that most of our strikers over the last 10 years have left us after playing for nearly a season without being able to score? Andy Johnson, The Yak, Saha, just to name a few, all came and have now left.
Granted its early days as of yet but I think Saha has done the only thing he could, said thanks to the fans and Moved on! Are you watching David Moyes! Oh By the way any chance of a refund seeing that you agree you wouldn't have paid to watch that drivell either?
Dave Wilson - Please stop Ive heard enough surely even you dont believe that Anichebe is on a par with Adebyour.
Its simple Saha did not do it for us because Moyes refuses to use 2 strikers and until Pienaar / Drenthe came refused to play attacking football.
I'll tell you what Moyes would get out of an expensive striker - fuck all! Have you forgot Jo yes that cracking Brazilian Moyes would have bought for £18m.
Cant see many Spurs fans moaning at dirty Harry they are in the know watching them week in week out.
Its simple Saha did not do it for us because Moyes refuses to use 2 strikers and until Pienaar / Drenthe came refused to play attacking football.
I'll tell you what Moyes would get out of an expensive striker - fuck all! Have you forgot Jo yes that cracking Brazilian Moyes would have bought for £18m.
Cant see many Spurs fans moaning at dirty Harry they are in the know watching them week in week out.
The greatest motivation for strikers is proving former managers wrong.In the yaks case he really has rammed this home.Playing in a ordinary side that has given him a chance,because there were no other takers.We sold him to cheap,but needs must as they say!!
In haha case,he is now playing in probably the most "attack" minded side since his MU days,and if he gets more chances which we know he will the guy will score,but it won't last we know that too!
In haha case,he is now playing in probably the most "attack" minded side since his MU days,and if he gets more chances which we know he will the guy will score,but it won't last we know that too!
I've not read every post on here, but I don't think it is that difficult to work out why Saha was 10 times better in 1 game at Spurs than 18 at Everton this season.
He had a strike partner! Someone who was able to link up with, make runs, stretch defenses and hold the ball up for, rather than do it all himself. He has always been a good finisher and the amount of balls in the box Spurs get, he will get more chances in 90 mins then for us!
He had a strike partner! Someone who was able to link up with, make runs, stretch defenses and hold the ball up for, rather than do it all himself. He has always been a good finisher and the amount of balls in the box Spurs get, he will get more chances in 90 mins then for us!
Dave Wilson,
Your'e truly blind, and possible utterly mad.
Your'e truly blind, and possible utterly mad.
Gaute
May I refer you back to post 444
I`ve made a few statements on thid thread. Feel very free to show me what I said that isnt true.
May I refer you back to post 444
I`ve made a few statements on thid thread. Feel very free to show me what I said that isnt true.
Dave Wilson, pay no attention to the nutters, you made some good points, but you dared to suggest that Moyes might have good qualities, that's dangerous ground almost scandalous on whingerweb.
John
I really dont mind if somebody disagrees with me, or can prove I`m wrong, what I dont understand is why people say your talking shite but when challenge to say why, they go all quiet.
This debate kinda sprung from another thread where some people wanted to just talk about the win over Chelsea and others insisted it was ok to discuss Saha and Spurs.
The points I`ve raised about Redknap and strikers could be made about any other top manager in the premiership.
The bizzarre claim that Moyes ruins strikers becomes even more Bizzarre when you look at other so called "top managers" and how they have struggled with their strikers.
Mention players like Forlan, Tevez, Berbatov, Carroll Torres, . . actually the list is fucken endless.
If a striker not scoring or leaving to score golas elswhere means a manager has ruined him, Then Moyes must have "ruined" less than any of them.
Another crackpot Tony Marsh theory embraced by the congregation
I really dont mind if somebody disagrees with me, or can prove I`m wrong, what I dont understand is why people say your talking shite but when challenge to say why, they go all quiet.
This debate kinda sprung from another thread where some people wanted to just talk about the win over Chelsea and others insisted it was ok to discuss Saha and Spurs.
The points I`ve raised about Redknap and strikers could be made about any other top manager in the premiership.
The bizzarre claim that Moyes ruins strikers becomes even more Bizzarre when you look at other so called "top managers" and how they have struggled with their strikers.
Mention players like Forlan, Tevez, Berbatov, Carroll Torres, . . actually the list is fucken endless.
If a striker not scoring or leaving to score golas elswhere means a manager has ruined him, Then Moyes must have "ruined" less than any of them.
Another crackpot Tony Marsh theory embraced by the congregation
Dave Wilson,
I'm just gonna point to the table. He's got a goal scoring team. His plan works.
I agree there's been a lot of different forwards at Spurs.
Thats your only point. And a bad one. Reason is the table positioning, and the fact Spurs has nearly twice as many goals scored compared to us.
I believe Redknapp has a luxury problem. "Who to chose today?". As Moyes is more like "Who do I HAVE to choose today?".Or as The Highlander pic,"There can be only one".
Anyway, I find it kinda strange you don't see the greater picture.
Also. I do believe Moyes is a somewhat great manager. I just hate his way of playing. I truly can't complain about his results when thinking of his small budget.
I'm just gonna point to the table. He's got a goal scoring team. His plan works.
I agree there's been a lot of different forwards at Spurs.
Thats your only point. And a bad one. Reason is the table positioning, and the fact Spurs has nearly twice as many goals scored compared to us.
I believe Redknapp has a luxury problem. "Who to chose today?". As Moyes is more like "Who do I HAVE to choose today?".Or as The Highlander pic,"There can be only one".
Anyway, I find it kinda strange you don't see the greater picture.
Also. I do believe Moyes is a somewhat great manager. I just hate his way of playing. I truly can't complain about his results when thinking of his small budget.
Look at the run of games Saha had for us this season when he just couldn't score, we created a lot of chances for him but he just didn't stick them away, he became lazy and his shooting was wayward and limp. I don't know why but maybe it was because he felt the pressure of being our only real option upfront and Tim had stopped scoring as well.
Maybe there will be less pressure on him to score at Spurs. I'm pleased he went though, it seems to've given Denis a lift and I can't wait to see Jelavic have a run of games.
Maybe there will be less pressure on him to score at Spurs. I'm pleased he went though, it seems to've given Denis a lift and I can't wait to see Jelavic have a run of games.
The Lone striker role is a thankless task and saha, yak, whoever plays it is not gonna be scoring for fun. Two up front is a totally different dynamic and you get a lot more space and time.
There are times when 1 up will work but against the likes of blackpool and wigan at home it really is the wrong way to go.
There are times when 1 up will work but against the likes of blackpool and wigan at home it really is the wrong way to go.
Just watched a re-run of the 5-3 win over Blackpool last season. 3 of Saha's 4 goals are from close-in and 2 involve pace. What a contrast from this season - looks like a different player!
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072 Posted 11/02/2012 at 18:44:02
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