Season 2011-12
The Mail Bag
Drenthe or Stracqualursi
74 Comments: After yesterday's game, listening to the phone-in on the radio, a caller asked if we could only sign Drenthe or Stracqualursi who would it be? The consensus was very mixed.
Personally, I think Drenthe is in a different class and gives us an extra dimesion that we need; pace and ability to take on players which as a team we lack in abundance.
I appreciate what Denis has done for us, but I can't help think that Drenthe would be much harder to replace and we would miss him more, especially with Donovan gone and no guarantees over Pienaar staying.
It would be disappointing to see the likes of Osman thrown out wide again next year because we have not retained wide players. People will argue Drenthe can be a liability which is probably true. I just hope that Moyes doesn't let his own ego deny us of a top talent in the summer by not signing Drenthe!
Anthony Millington, Posted 19/02/2012 at 10:46:56
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No doubt Royston has class but don't think we could afford Royston's wages. He will be looking for 60k plus i would think which we could only afford for the top 2 or so names on the teamsheet, which untll his decision making improves a bit he isn't.
Denis will be cheap to buy and cheap to pay i would imagine. IMO he is what we have needed for a few seasons a truly hardworking CF able to hold the ball up, occupy defenders and nick a goal or two.
Denis will be cheap to buy and cheap to pay i would imagine. IMO he is what we have needed for a few seasons a truly hardworking CF able to hold the ball up, occupy defenders and nick a goal or two.
Stracqualursi galvanises the crowd by his 100% effort, Drenthe can be brilliant, he can also be over elaborate and appear apathetic.
So Stracqualursi for me.
So Stracqualursi for me.
Hopefully a moot point, though with our current finances, wouldn't be a shock to see neither signed.
Back in the early 80s, The Dome had the chance to sign two strikers, but decided to plump for just one. A young lad from Dumbarton who was a great striker, but leaves a lot to be desired as a Fans Liaison Officer. Liverpool snapped up the lad from Chester.
A couple of years ago I asked Ian Rush whether he reckoned it would've changed the balance of power had The Dome signed them both. He said it was all hypothetical, but yes, he reckons Sharpy and him would've been a hell of a partnership.
Back in the early 80s, The Dome had the chance to sign two strikers, but decided to plump for just one. A young lad from Dumbarton who was a great striker, but leaves a lot to be desired as a Fans Liaison Officer. Liverpool snapped up the lad from Chester.
A couple of years ago I asked Ian Rush whether he reckoned it would've changed the balance of power had The Dome signed them both. He said it was all hypothetical, but yes, he reckons Sharpy and him would've been a hell of a partnership.
All I can say is why not both / It's a crying shame that out financial plight suggests we would have to choose an either / or.
Then again, if we had the dosh would we sign either ?
Then again, if we had the dosh would we sign either ?
Drenthe. Higher resale value. Much higher.
Drenthe everyday of the week. One is a potentially world class footballer, the other is an honest workhorse.
Just to add, if Moyes has any ego at all he must sign Drenthe, to fail to do so will be to admit he can't handle him. If he can't handle a player like Drenthe, how good a manager can he think he is?
Mike A, although I understand what you're saying, I think the decision to sign Drenthe will be out of DM's hands. I can't see how we can afford his wages. Real are subsidising them heavily for now. Does anybody know accurately what they will be?
He's already making the right noises about signing Big Denis so I think, all being well, that will happen. Royston, I'm not so sure. I think failing to sign Drenthe would be a huge opportunity missed but unfair to beat Moyes with.
He's already making the right noises about signing Big Denis so I think, all being well, that will happen. Royston, I'm not so sure. I think failing to sign Drenthe would be a huge opportunity missed but unfair to beat Moyes with.
Its funny how the term "world class" gets bandied about and Drenthe is, in my opinion, certainly not that. This is not the Dutch League and the paucity of his appearances for Real Madrid, Dutch national team and his struggles against good full backs - I thought Micah Richards for example got the better of him - atest to this. His best games have been against Blackpool, Fulham and Norwich.
In terms of the OP, my vote would go for the Big Lug, as his influence far extends his football ability and here is a player who would play for the shirt.
We should also try and find the funds for taking back Peanuts before going for Drenthe.
In terms of the OP, my vote would go for the Big Lug, as his influence far extends his football ability and here is a player who would play for the shirt.
We should also try and find the funds for taking back Peanuts before going for Drenthe.
I said on a post a while ago that we need another hero because everything was doom and gloom .
we have found him. The feelgood factor is back.
Step forward the Strach.Love him.
we have found him. The feelgood factor is back.
Step forward the Strach.Love him.
Drenthe, yes he gives the ball away too easily but produces magic. There is always room in any squad for a player like that.
Drenthe because he is gunine class and with genuine pace capable of producing the unexpected. I believe we'll find a way of keeping him at the expense of the sale of a young midfielder. We have more than we need now.
Personally, I think another big name will go in the summer to fund any purchases, either Rodwell or Jags, we have cover at the back with Distin/Heitinga pairing up a solid partnership and Duffy as backup. I'd like us to get Drenthe (wages) Stracq(1.5-2M??) Pienaar (3-4M) in as well as another quality striker and a backup left back.
Push comes to Shove then Drenthe for me anyday - pace and power alone is instrumental in our side. Future sell on value.
Moyes has been on again today about Royston`s need to master `defensive responsibilities`. Based on the work ethic philosophy that `our man` holds sacred, Straq will be his man of choice. Betya!
Drenthe reminds me of a certain Manuel Fernandes who was also very inconsistent and we never invested in him understandably. He and Drenthe both have class but don't seem to sustain the momentum from one game to the next and that is why they seem to float araound on loan to various clubs.
Yes, get him on loan again but buy a more wholehearted player like Stracqs every time.
Yes, get him on loan again but buy a more wholehearted player like Stracqs every time.
As much as I like Rolls Royston and his pace, I would like to see Denis more next season myself.
Pace and the rare moment of magic is not really enough (ask any Aresenal fan about Walcott's displays this season)
If Royston can cut out a few of the mistakes and improve his consistency and decision making then he might be worth the no doubt large wages he would want.
If Royston can cut out a few of the mistakes and improve his consistency and decision making then he might be worth the no doubt large wages he would want.
Sam,
The "rare moments of magic" might be more frequent were Drenthe given a run of games.
Ideally I'd take both since Straq could thrive on Drenthe's crossing ability but given the choice, Drenthe every time.
Give me a player who occasionally (and it is very occasionally, and no more, despite what some would have you believe) concedes possession by trying something creative like a defence splitting pass, rather than a Kilbane or Coleman type who will run up and down the line all day but be as predictable as the calls for Moyes' head the next time we lose a game.
The "rare moments of magic" might be more frequent were Drenthe given a run of games.
Ideally I'd take both since Straq could thrive on Drenthe's crossing ability but given the choice, Drenthe every time.
Give me a player who occasionally (and it is very occasionally, and no more, despite what some would have you believe) concedes possession by trying something creative like a defence splitting pass, rather than a Kilbane or Coleman type who will run up and down the line all day but be as predictable as the calls for Moyes' head the next time we lose a game.
I guess a key part of the decision will be how the new striker works out. If he is good then the need for Straq would be reduced you would think.
If i had to choose just one then it would be Stracqualarsi for me. Seems more consistent and reliable and gives the team the outlet up top they've been missing for a while. He's always going to put himself about and run his arse off for the team but he does offer a bit more than that as well. Those early tales of his technical deficiencies, and piss taking trainees at Fich Farm, appear to have been slightly exaggerated. Some of his link up play has been of a very decent standard indeed. The fans have really taken to him and his manager and teammates all seem to appreciate his efforts.
Drenthe, on the other hand, can be one infuriating motherfucker, switching from the sublime to stinking the place out in the blink of an eye. He's definitely not "potentially world class" but he does possess a valuable commodity we're missing throughout the rest of the team, and that's pure Pavarotti after he hears 'pizza's ready' pace. He's also prepared to have a crack at goal rather than continually shifting the ball from left to right in front of the box like the majority of the current team.
However, despite possessing these attributes, I feel he's on borrowed time because he's just not a 'Moyes type' player is he? At one stage on Saturday he badly overhit a needlessly ambitous cross field ball that flew over the head of Baines and straight out for a throw. Moyes stood glaring at him for about five minutes like he'd just found out Drenthe had fucked his dog.
Drenthe, on the other hand, can be one infuriating motherfucker, switching from the sublime to stinking the place out in the blink of an eye. He's definitely not "potentially world class" but he does possess a valuable commodity we're missing throughout the rest of the team, and that's pure Pavarotti after he hears 'pizza's ready' pace. He's also prepared to have a crack at goal rather than continually shifting the ball from left to right in front of the box like the majority of the current team.
However, despite possessing these attributes, I feel he's on borrowed time because he's just not a 'Moyes type' player is he? At one stage on Saturday he badly overhit a needlessly ambitous cross field ball that flew over the head of Baines and straight out for a throw. Moyes stood glaring at him for about five minutes like he'd just found out Drenthe had fucked his dog.
I would quite happily sell Jags and/or Rodwell if we could get Strac and Drenthe permanently.
If we had Jelavic,Strac and Velios fighting for (one) place up front I think that would be quite strong competition by our recent standards.
And,as others have said,Drenthe has what we lack.......pace and unpredictability.
If we had Jelavic,Strac and Velios fighting for (one) place up front I think that would be quite strong competition by our recent standards.
And,as others have said,Drenthe has what we lack.......pace and unpredictability.
There's a possibility that Straq is only putting in such effort to guarantee himself a place in the next game's starting eleven - the way it should be - healthy competition. Saha knew he'd get a game regardless of form, and this theme continues with other players. Jagielka, Neville, Saha, Cahill and Osman are all players which seem to get guaranteed games and they happen to be the players who aren't thriving.
I think we should do our best to keep Drenthe - he shows real inspiration and a spark of unpredictability we have been craving since, I was going to say Kanchelskis, but probably Gravesen at his best.
I think we should do our best to keep Drenthe - he shows real inspiration and a spark of unpredictability we have been craving since, I was going to say Kanchelskis, but probably Gravesen at his best.
If Drenthe isn't playing for us next season, I will be very disappointed. Disappointment I can live with. However, anger is harder to deal with, and if I saw the likes of Strac and Pienaar at the club next season, anger would be the feeling.
Should add, "if Drenthe weren't there..."
Just shows where we've come as a club when we're talking about signing either of them.
Drenthe. Teams need weapons, and he has a few things which are top, top notch.
I think you just have to live with his other side and accept that you have 10 other players on the pitch.
I'm loving Stracq, but hard work is the least we should expect from our players.
I think you just have to live with his other side and accept that you have 10 other players on the pitch.
I'm loving Stracq, but hard work is the least we should expect from our players.
Drenthe everytime.
Now I get why everybody loves Strac, hell even I do but lets not get carried away.
His touch is woeful a lot of the time and he has no pace what so ever. I think if Moyes thought Strac was a long term answer he wouldn't have gone for Jelavic who hopefully has everything strac does and more. Strac would be great on a free/nominal fee but not for big bucks
Now I get why everybody loves Strac, hell even I do but lets not get carried away.
His touch is woeful a lot of the time and he has no pace what so ever. I think if Moyes thought Strac was a long term answer he wouldn't have gone for Jelavic who hopefully has everything strac does and more. Strac would be great on a free/nominal fee but not for big bucks
Drenthe would first want to stay, then he would no doubt need to agree to less money...
Stracq is a really old-fashioned striker ? hard working and still finding his feet in the toughest league in the world. He won't cost us the world and will learn as the season goes on... Remember, this lad was top scorer in Argentina last year... If he gets the run he needs then I can see him banging in the goals week after week... A much better buy than Drenthe in the long term...
But saying that, they both need a run of games... any money decisions can be made at the end of the season, hopefully after we bring home the FA Cup! and have qualified for Europe again....
We can all dream can`t we?
Stracq is a really old-fashioned striker ? hard working and still finding his feet in the toughest league in the world. He won't cost us the world and will learn as the season goes on... Remember, this lad was top scorer in Argentina last year... If he gets the run he needs then I can see him banging in the goals week after week... A much better buy than Drenthe in the long term...
But saying that, they both need a run of games... any money decisions can be made at the end of the season, hopefully after we bring home the FA Cup! and have qualified for Europe again....
We can all dream can`t we?
Sell on value is key here.
Let us not kid ourselves, if we get Drenthe on a free we have to jump at it!
If only because we can sell him after a year or so, then that would also be great.
Main point is this, we lack money, if we get a free transfer in and sell him for 5-6 million to another club then that is 5-6 million we can spend on buying a replacement for Pienaar or Arteta.
This is not just about who we like the most, this is about money, easy money, and if Moyes does not sign Drenthe on a free then I will loose all respect for him, because this is not about ego, this is about MONEY and we need to be smart in order for us to have a transfer kitty.
Money is the number 1. number 2 is about what is best for the team.
No matter how you look at it Pienaar is going back to Spurs come summer, if we want him then we have to pay for him.
We have no money, we spent it on Jelavic and Gibson.
That makes it even more clear that we simply must take Drenthe, he will not cost us any fee, and we can decide to sell him if we find out that he is no use to us.
I hope Moyes has the right perspective here, he knows he has done it before with Arteta and Pienaar, took them on loan, then got them signed up, got them to play good football for us and then sold them for a profit.
That is a great strategy and one I really hope Moyes holds onto.
Straqualursi for me has no pace whatsoever and his first touch is like a conference player.
He lacks the acceleration needed to be a prolific striker, and his first touch is so poor even Hibbert is better than Straq and that tells you something.
I like the fact that he has found the net for us, and his work ethic is super, I feel he needs train more to be able to stay longer than this season, I think Moyes needs to put him on individual training until his loan ends and if he shows signs off improving than buy him, if not then let him go.
We have Vellios and Jelavic already so I think we will be ok, even if Straq goes home.
Let us not kid ourselves, if we get Drenthe on a free we have to jump at it!
If only because we can sell him after a year or so, then that would also be great.
Main point is this, we lack money, if we get a free transfer in and sell him for 5-6 million to another club then that is 5-6 million we can spend on buying a replacement for Pienaar or Arteta.
This is not just about who we like the most, this is about money, easy money, and if Moyes does not sign Drenthe on a free then I will loose all respect for him, because this is not about ego, this is about MONEY and we need to be smart in order for us to have a transfer kitty.
Money is the number 1. number 2 is about what is best for the team.
No matter how you look at it Pienaar is going back to Spurs come summer, if we want him then we have to pay for him.
We have no money, we spent it on Jelavic and Gibson.
That makes it even more clear that we simply must take Drenthe, he will not cost us any fee, and we can decide to sell him if we find out that he is no use to us.
I hope Moyes has the right perspective here, he knows he has done it before with Arteta and Pienaar, took them on loan, then got them signed up, got them to play good football for us and then sold them for a profit.
That is a great strategy and one I really hope Moyes holds onto.
Straqualursi for me has no pace whatsoever and his first touch is like a conference player.
He lacks the acceleration needed to be a prolific striker, and his first touch is so poor even Hibbert is better than Straq and that tells you something.
I like the fact that he has found the net for us, and his work ethic is super, I feel he needs train more to be able to stay longer than this season, I think Moyes needs to put him on individual training until his loan ends and if he shows signs off improving than buy him, if not then let him go.
We have Vellios and Jelavic already so I think we will be ok, even if Straq goes home.
How much would Straq cost with fee and wages and how much does Drenthe want each week. It will all come down to pound signs in the end regardless of ability. Personally I do not think Straq is worth more than 2million whereas I think we could sell Drenthe on in 12 months for 3 million even if he only warms the bench.
Drenthe was our outlet from defence for almost everything on Saturday and it made such a great change from mindless hoofball. And a big part of that is also down to having 2 central defenders with good technical abilty as well as an outlet with skill and pace.
Dare I say that if we off loaded tiger Tim to a club like QPR or the equivalent then we would save a shit load of money on his wages and we would then be able to afford both Royston AND Strac. I think tiger Tim?s best days are behind him now and we now have the players at the club who can move us on. Drente is class when he's on his game but how could you deny Strac an opportunity when he gives 100% and is the nearest thing we have had to big Dunc in the last 10 years.
When the Strac is in the mood like he was against Man City he will destroy most defenders. I just hope he gets his opportunity when we go to Anfield and he annihilates Carragher and Dr Death alongside him.
When the Strac is in the mood like he was against Man City he will destroy most defenders. I just hope he gets his opportunity when we go to Anfield and he annihilates Carragher and Dr Death alongside him.
I do believe Pienaar will go back to Spurs at the end of the season once the loan has ended. He is past 30 and would not be a good investment of 60-80,000 pounds a week on a 2 or 3 yr contract, when Straq and Drenthe are around the mid 20s and would be better value for money IMO.
Moyes, the ever-predictable, will never sign Drenthe. Sadly, this question is purely hypothetical. Gollum would rather we never give the ball away by trying ambitious passes and that we draw all our games 0-0, than see Drenthe skin a full back and score a screamer but lose the ball once or twice and allow opposition counter-attacks. Boring, boring Gollum.
I would be happy to see either or both. Dead right on the re-sale value of Drenthe though Lee.
I think I read on GOT, or similar, that there may be complex ownership issues around Strac. No idea of the problems it could cause us, but if true, I guess quite a few.
I think I read on GOT, or similar, that there may be complex ownership issues around Strac. No idea of the problems it could cause us, but if true, I guess quite a few.
On paper, Drenthe is obviously the better player, but...I'd go for Straq.
The best Everton side I've ever seen (85) TOTALLY understood the idea of 'the team'.
Straq appears to have this built-in.
Plus, even if his touch etc isn't what it might be, he also seems to have a consistency about him - seems to give his all every game.
Drenthe (like many professionals these days) has bags of ability, but appears too easily side-tracked by all the nonsense OFF the park and much of his play on it seems to be about him (ie: one eye on the compilation of 'my best bits' for his agent)
Also (like many professionals these days) Drenthe has inconsistency written all over him.
A great game...a not bad game....two bad games...a good game...a shite game...etc etc.
This is something that bugs the shite out of me about footballers in general now - even those considered the best players, rarely seem to be able to compete at the same level week after week after
(I remember when I was a kid, really wanting Ian Callaghan to get a bad injury coz he just seemed to go on and and on and on for about a million games and got dead good write-ups in the footie Echo every bleedin' week).
I'm not really knocking Drenthe, more a general football thing - in fact while we have him, I'd DEFINITELY pick him as he provides excitement and skill and if he could 'grow up' and really apply himself, he ABSOLUTELY could be an asset to us (or ANY side).
But if you're asking for one or the other, right now I'd go with..the other.
The best Everton side I've ever seen (85) TOTALLY understood the idea of 'the team'.
Straq appears to have this built-in.
Plus, even if his touch etc isn't what it might be, he also seems to have a consistency about him - seems to give his all every game.
Drenthe (like many professionals these days) has bags of ability, but appears too easily side-tracked by all the nonsense OFF the park and much of his play on it seems to be about him (ie: one eye on the compilation of 'my best bits' for his agent)
Also (like many professionals these days) Drenthe has inconsistency written all over him.
A great game...a not bad game....two bad games...a good game...a shite game...etc etc.
This is something that bugs the shite out of me about footballers in general now - even those considered the best players, rarely seem to be able to compete at the same level week after week after
(I remember when I was a kid, really wanting Ian Callaghan to get a bad injury coz he just seemed to go on and and on and on for about a million games and got dead good write-ups in the footie Echo every bleedin' week).
I'm not really knocking Drenthe, more a general football thing - in fact while we have him, I'd DEFINITELY pick him as he provides excitement and skill and if he could 'grow up' and really apply himself, he ABSOLUTELY could be an asset to us (or ANY side).
But if you're asking for one or the other, right now I'd go with..the other.
I have to laugh at the "he's not a Moyes type player" comments on threads.
If he wasn't a Moyes type player, how was he on the pitch to score on Saturday? Why does he have a squad number and play when he is fit enough to play?
I would love to have them both stay, I have been converted by Stracula, I hated him when he first came but I have a soft spot for him now, probably started after he tried to head a ball on the floor.
Drenth is infuriating, but he has skill and is quick. A comment I noticed on Blue Kipper (I know, I know, but this site wasn't loafing up) was that someone said, Imagine how good a player he would be if he had a brain....says it all and is probably true. Or least it would be better if his brain could keep up with his feet.
If he wasn't a Moyes type player, how was he on the pitch to score on Saturday? Why does he have a squad number and play when he is fit enough to play?
I would love to have them both stay, I have been converted by Stracula, I hated him when he first came but I have a soft spot for him now, probably started after he tried to head a ball on the floor.
Drenth is infuriating, but he has skill and is quick. A comment I noticed on Blue Kipper (I know, I know, but this site wasn't loafing up) was that someone said, Imagine how good a player he would be if he had a brain....says it all and is probably true. Or least it would be better if his brain could keep up with his feet.
"Moyes will never sign Drenthe" ? I've never heard such nonsense! Who was it who brought the lad to Everton in the first place?
It's got to be Drenthe for me: he offers us something extra, the pace and unpredictability that's needed to break down top flight defences. The question of his wages is irrelevant. If he wants to price himself out of a contract with Everton then that's a matter for him. But if he's as enthusiastic about playing here as he seems to be then that shouldn't be too much of a problem.
It's got to be Drenthe for me: he offers us something extra, the pace and unpredictability that's needed to break down top flight defences. The question of his wages is irrelevant. If he wants to price himself out of a contract with Everton then that's a matter for him. But if he's as enthusiastic about playing here as he seems to be then that shouldn't be too much of a problem.
Drenthe every time.
I haven't seen a player at Everton since Kanchelskis (except for him who shall remain nameless) who can play like that.
Everytime he gets the ball you can feel the buzz around the ground. Strac has run around a lot and tried hard for a few games but lets be honest he'll never be a world beater...Drenthe potentially is.
I haven't seen a player at Everton since Kanchelskis (except for him who shall remain nameless) who can play like that.
Everytime he gets the ball you can feel the buzz around the ground. Strac has run around a lot and tried hard for a few games but lets be honest he'll never be a world beater...Drenthe potentially is.
Anthony...Wingers cannot give the ball away as much as Drenthe does. This is not Moyes' tactic, it is the tactic of most top managers. Mourinho, one of the best, if not the best manager of the last 5-10 years, ensured his wingers were not wasteful and tackled back. A winger who simply attacks is a liability in the modern game. It is niave to think otherwise, especially in a league as quick as the prem.
With regards Jimmy, to buying with potential sell on value, it is a dangerous game with a player on high wages. Drenthe would likely cost us approaching 3million a year in wages as well as a sign on fee of around one million. Buying him would be a risk with no guarantee of a sell on profit.
Between the two however, I would take a risk and go for Drenthe. On his day he can do world class things with the ball, and when he burst onto the scene in the under 21 Euros, I think myself along with many others saw him as a potential superstar. He needs to improve parts of game, but I think it is important for us to have a wide player with speed and scoring ability. Although as recognised earlier in this thread, I would buy Peanuts first, as I believe he is easily better than both of them. However, if we manage to sell one of our big assets, i.e Fellaini or Rodwell (or if someone makes an idiotic big for Jags, which I doubt very much) we could get all three without expending too much. There is also Hoilett (fantastic prospect) and Rodallega available on frees at the end of the season, so I think there is a definite opportunity to improve the squad and team, if we can just find some money.
With regards Jimmy, to buying with potential sell on value, it is a dangerous game with a player on high wages. Drenthe would likely cost us approaching 3million a year in wages as well as a sign on fee of around one million. Buying him would be a risk with no guarantee of a sell on profit.
Between the two however, I would take a risk and go for Drenthe. On his day he can do world class things with the ball, and when he burst onto the scene in the under 21 Euros, I think myself along with many others saw him as a potential superstar. He needs to improve parts of game, but I think it is important for us to have a wide player with speed and scoring ability. Although as recognised earlier in this thread, I would buy Peanuts first, as I believe he is easily better than both of them. However, if we manage to sell one of our big assets, i.e Fellaini or Rodwell (or if someone makes an idiotic big for Jags, which I doubt very much) we could get all three without expending too much. There is also Hoilett (fantastic prospect) and Rodallega available on frees at the end of the season, so I think there is a definite opportunity to improve the squad and team, if we can just find some money.
I think Drenthe for me, just because he offers something nobody else has. We've needed pace for a long time, and he certainly provides that.
Stracq would be an important signing IMO too, because of his work rate, strength and heading ability. He is perfectly suited to a 4-5-1 formation. He's also the type of player who would get the best out of Jelavic, because he is valid competition for him. You wouldnt want Jelavic getting too comfortable with his place, and then getting lazy. Need somebody to keep him on his toes.
But if you think realistically, Drenthe's wages will be high. I doubt he'd want a pay cut as I think a lot of clubs will want him, and I doubt Moyes will wanna pay him that much unless he becomes indespensible for us in the second half of the season, which could happen.
Stracq's parent club are quite a lowly one in the Argentine Division, so I would imagine he wouldnt cost that much. His wages wouldnt be that much either.
If we get Drenthe, Stracq and Pienaar at the end of the season, as well as maybe one or two others, I would be a very happy chappy indeed.
Stracq would be an important signing IMO too, because of his work rate, strength and heading ability. He is perfectly suited to a 4-5-1 formation. He's also the type of player who would get the best out of Jelavic, because he is valid competition for him. You wouldnt want Jelavic getting too comfortable with his place, and then getting lazy. Need somebody to keep him on his toes.
But if you think realistically, Drenthe's wages will be high. I doubt he'd want a pay cut as I think a lot of clubs will want him, and I doubt Moyes will wanna pay him that much unless he becomes indespensible for us in the second half of the season, which could happen.
Stracq's parent club are quite a lowly one in the Argentine Division, so I would imagine he wouldnt cost that much. His wages wouldnt be that much either.
If we get Drenthe, Stracq and Pienaar at the end of the season, as well as maybe one or two others, I would be a very happy chappy indeed.
Going forward, it would have to be Drenthe. He's what we've been calling out for. Arrogance, pace and skill. When he has the ball, anything can happen. I would play him in the middle behind the striker, and allow him to have that freedom to do whatever. Of course he's a bit of a wild card, you can question is lack of commitment and selfish play. But I have trust in Moyes to get the best out of him.
But then Strac has been fantastic. When he first came, he was awful. Fitness and touch were horrific. He could of easily gave up and sat on the bench and enjoyed himself. But credit to him for sticking to it and working hard. It's great to watch. He's one of the main reasons that we are doing so well. He's got the crowd going again, and with that he's got the team going.
Strac would be the cheaper option of course, he's another option for the striker role but I think after a season, he won't have the same success and impact due to teams knowing how to play him. At the moment, defenders don't know how to handle him. The same has happened with Seamus. I hope I'm wrong though. I'd love him to stay and carry on his great form.
After weighing it up though, I'd have to go with Drenthe.
But then Strac has been fantastic. When he first came, he was awful. Fitness and touch were horrific. He could of easily gave up and sat on the bench and enjoyed himself. But credit to him for sticking to it and working hard. It's great to watch. He's one of the main reasons that we are doing so well. He's got the crowd going again, and with that he's got the team going.
Strac would be the cheaper option of course, he's another option for the striker role but I think after a season, he won't have the same success and impact due to teams knowing how to play him. At the moment, defenders don't know how to handle him. The same has happened with Seamus. I hope I'm wrong though. I'd love him to stay and carry on his great form.
After weighing it up though, I'd have to go with Drenthe.
If straq continues current vein then he is a shoe in. I think the more interesting and pertinent question might be Drenthe of Pienaar? Doubt very much we could afford both....
"If he wasn't a Moyes type player, how was he on the pitch to score on Saturday? Why does he have a squad number and play when he is fit enough to play?"
He was on the pitch because the squad was down to bare bones. Why wasn't he on the pitch against Chelsea? Moyes preferred Pienaar and Donovan and they are definitely his 'type'.
Yes, Moyes brought him to the club but do you seriously think he was a long term target or thoroughly scouted by Everton beforehand? He was a last minute desperation loan deal, the same as Stracq, and both players were brought in simply to bolster the shrinking squad numbers more than anything else. They were available and being shopped around by agents so the manager took a punt in the off chance they might come good.
Whenever Moyes has had the opportunity and options available to pick someone else in his position he has done so. If Donovan was on loan until the end of the season and Pienaar wasn't cup tied do you believe Moyes would be giving Drenthe a sniff of the starting line up? If Anichebe was ever fully fit for an extended period I'd back Moyes to start him on the right ahead of Drenthe.
The guy's only started ten games Tony. He hasn't missed out on all the other games through injury (a couple, yes) , he simply hasn't been selected because he doesn't provide the work rate, consistency or defensive cover Moyes craves. Would I have started him more often? Yes. Am I surprised in the slightest that Moyes hasn't? Am I fuck. He's not a 'Moyes type' player.
If Moyes makes any attempt to keep him beyond this season, or even makes any encouraging noises about wanting to keep him, or simply stops staring at him like he wants to rip his fucking head off whenever he needlessly over elaborates and gives the ball away, then I'll retract that statement and admit I was wrong. Until then I'll keep on saying it: Drenthe is not a Moyes type player.
He was on the pitch because the squad was down to bare bones. Why wasn't he on the pitch against Chelsea? Moyes preferred Pienaar and Donovan and they are definitely his 'type'.
Yes, Moyes brought him to the club but do you seriously think he was a long term target or thoroughly scouted by Everton beforehand? He was a last minute desperation loan deal, the same as Stracq, and both players were brought in simply to bolster the shrinking squad numbers more than anything else. They were available and being shopped around by agents so the manager took a punt in the off chance they might come good.
Whenever Moyes has had the opportunity and options available to pick someone else in his position he has done so. If Donovan was on loan until the end of the season and Pienaar wasn't cup tied do you believe Moyes would be giving Drenthe a sniff of the starting line up? If Anichebe was ever fully fit for an extended period I'd back Moyes to start him on the right ahead of Drenthe.
The guy's only started ten games Tony. He hasn't missed out on all the other games through injury (a couple, yes) , he simply hasn't been selected because he doesn't provide the work rate, consistency or defensive cover Moyes craves. Would I have started him more often? Yes. Am I surprised in the slightest that Moyes hasn't? Am I fuck. He's not a 'Moyes type' player.
If Moyes makes any attempt to keep him beyond this season, or even makes any encouraging noises about wanting to keep him, or simply stops staring at him like he wants to rip his fucking head off whenever he needlessly over elaborates and gives the ball away, then I'll retract that statement and admit I was wrong. Until then I'll keep on saying it: Drenthe is not a Moyes type player.
I agree with you John, I don't think Drenthe is a Moyes type player, and I also think it is down to Drenthe's work rate. I'm sure Moyes has already pointed out this season that Drenthe has to work more on the defensive side of his game, and the problem is that Drenthe is never going to be one of those players who puts a shift in defensively, he is flair player, a luxury. Come the end of the loan period, I reckon he will be sent back to Madrid.
Drenthe probably isn't a Moyes type player but could easily become one. All he has to do is grow up and calm down a bit. I love the good things he does but I hate the bad things he does.
If I had to pick one from the two mentioned, it would be Stracq at the moment. Whether I'll still be thinking that at the end of the season, I don't know.
I'd pull out all the stops to get Pienaar in before the pair of them though.
If I had to pick one from the two mentioned, it would be Stracq at the moment. Whether I'll still be thinking that at the end of the season, I don't know.
I'd pull out all the stops to get Pienaar in before the pair of them though.
I think we can be confident thay Davey will make the right decision.Of course, much will depend on what the player-and his advisers-want from the deal.
I`m not sure what transfer fees might be involved with these two although Kenwright will do well to get Pienaar back for less than £5M.if Moyes` ambition extends to signing him as well.
Of course,the banks will continue to have a big say in what we spend in fees and wages and I guess the sale of a `star ` player might make all three possible.
Could we spare the likes of Jags or Rodders?
I`m not sure what transfer fees might be involved with these two although Kenwright will do well to get Pienaar back for less than £5M.if Moyes` ambition extends to signing him as well.
Of course,the banks will continue to have a big say in what we spend in fees and wages and I guess the sale of a `star ` player might make all three possible.
Could we spare the likes of Jags or Rodders?
No-brainer: sell Jags, keep the current defensive pair together, use Duffy as cover, and sign Pienaar, Stracq and Drenthe with the cash, throw £5mill to the bankers and maybe a couple of quid over for some central defensive or right back cover.
John Daley
Did you see how he played against City? He was tracking back all the time. Did some really important tackles. He started off as a left back for god sake!!
Agree he needs to up his work rate a bit, but the reason he hasnt been playing all the time is he's not consistent enough. Did you seriously think Moyes picks his wingers solely on how often they track back? A bit extreme dont you think?
I remember a certain Mr Pienaar when he first signed for us. Exactly the same as Drenthe. Yet Moyes played him all the time?
So the Moyes type player's a load of bollocks in my opinion. Was a Yakubu a Moyes type player? Was Saha a Moyes type player? They played loads for us.
Did you see how he played against City? He was tracking back all the time. Did some really important tackles. He started off as a left back for god sake!!
Agree he needs to up his work rate a bit, but the reason he hasnt been playing all the time is he's not consistent enough. Did you seriously think Moyes picks his wingers solely on how often they track back? A bit extreme dont you think?
I remember a certain Mr Pienaar when he first signed for us. Exactly the same as Drenthe. Yet Moyes played him all the time?
So the Moyes type player's a load of bollocks in my opinion. Was a Yakubu a Moyes type player? Was Saha a Moyes type player? They played loads for us.
Sam - none of us know what can or cannot be afforded, but I can't see the Pienaar or Drenthe thing being too much of a problem.
Moyes, as we know, loves what he knows, what he can depend on. There will be something to spend, and he may already have made up his mind. A few loans on top maybe. Don't look for exciting new signings next July - they're already here.
Moyes, as we know, loves what he knows, what he can depend on. There will be something to spend, and he may already have made up his mind. A few loans on top maybe. Don't look for exciting new signings next July - they're already here.
Surely,like any other manager,Moyes picks all his teams in the belief that the players he chooses are the ones he thinks most likely to beat the opposition.
I suspect Howard and Baines are the only ones guaranteed a place purely because they have no credible replacements.Perhaps Pienaar may now be added to those two.
It`s arrid nonsense to talk of` Moyes type players`except in the context of demanding maximum effort in all areas of the pitch.
I suspect Howard and Baines are the only ones guaranteed a place purely because they have no credible replacements.Perhaps Pienaar may now be added to those two.
It`s arrid nonsense to talk of` Moyes type players`except in the context of demanding maximum effort in all areas of the pitch.
And excuse me for getting in late - but I think I've seen the 'Drenthe is not a Moyes player' motif a few times here. Ask the great man why he started Royston against the free-scoring City. He didn't have to. He played a great part in that game.
Mancini said after that he had been ill-prepared in his preparation for the game. He couldn'f have forseen Hibbert at CM, and might have thought that Drenthe was a soft touch in defence. He was wrong.
Mancini said after that he had been ill-prepared in his preparation for the game. He couldn'f have forseen Hibbert at CM, and might have thought that Drenthe was a soft touch in defence. He was wrong.
"Did you see how he played against City? "
I did. In the first half he was shocking, continually running blind into players, going down and giving the ball away, but he kept on going. He didn't let his head drop. I'm not trying to slate the player himself. I just don't think Moyes will look to keep him.
"Did you seriously think Moyes picks his wingers solely on how often they track back? "
No, that's why I never said it.
"..the reason he hasnt been playing all the time is he's not consistent enough"
I know. That's why I said it.
"Was a Yakubu a Moyes type player?"
I was pleasantly surprised when Moyes signed Yakubu. It didn't take long after his arrival though for Moyes to publicly state that the Yak had to up his work rate. That's not a bad thing but it is something Yakubu has never been renowned for. He managed it for a while but eventually reverted back to type a couple of months prior to his injury. He's been considered 'a bit of a lazy bastard' at every club he's played for. Currently at Blackburn the manager is prepared to accept this and let others do the work provided Yakubu is there, in and around the box, to finish things off. At Everton the first thing Moyes demands of any player is that they all put a shift in for the team.
" Was Saha a Moyes type player?"
Flippant answer? Yeah, he was a Man Utd cast off. So definitely a Moyes type player.
I did. In the first half he was shocking, continually running blind into players, going down and giving the ball away, but he kept on going. He didn't let his head drop. I'm not trying to slate the player himself. I just don't think Moyes will look to keep him.
"Did you seriously think Moyes picks his wingers solely on how often they track back? "
No, that's why I never said it.
"..the reason he hasnt been playing all the time is he's not consistent enough"
I know. That's why I said it.
"Was a Yakubu a Moyes type player?"
I was pleasantly surprised when Moyes signed Yakubu. It didn't take long after his arrival though for Moyes to publicly state that the Yak had to up his work rate. That's not a bad thing but it is something Yakubu has never been renowned for. He managed it for a while but eventually reverted back to type a couple of months prior to his injury. He's been considered 'a bit of a lazy bastard' at every club he's played for. Currently at Blackburn the manager is prepared to accept this and let others do the work provided Yakubu is there, in and around the box, to finish things off. At Everton the first thing Moyes demands of any player is that they all put a shift in for the team.
" Was Saha a Moyes type player?"
Flippant answer? Yeah, he was a Man Utd cast off. So definitely a Moyes type player.
Richard ? oh dear.
'Demanding maximum effort in all areas of the pitch' Saha? It took the great man a long time to work that one out.
And while the rest do that, very often they are putting in extra effort, struggling against the problem of being played out of position.
'Demanding maximum effort in all areas of the pitch' Saha? It took the great man a long time to work that one out.
And while the rest do that, very often they are putting in extra effort, struggling against the problem of being played out of position.
Keith
I think Moyes has found a balance with the aquisition of Drenthe, Pienaar and Donovan (allbeit briefly)
Do you think Moyes has played people out of position recently? If so, who?
I think Moyes has found a balance with the aquisition of Drenthe, Pienaar and Donovan (allbeit briefly)
Do you think Moyes has played people out of position recently? If so, who?
I saw how Drenthe played against City. From row 12 in the Paddock. Closing them down, denying passes, and leaving no space for the likes of David Silva (player of the season contender, until people like us worked him out) to roam. A team player. Moyes knows that.
Dave - there is always the Neville problem.
And it was great to see the Big Fella enjoying himself forward on Saturday, but that was a diversion. He has to be where he plays best to get the best out of him and the whole team. If he was a striker he would have had 3 or more. Moyes shouldn't do it again.
Osman available will pose more problems about position - excellent support for Stracq in my opinion - and who knows what happens when Jelavic plays.
And it was great to see the Big Fella enjoying himself forward on Saturday, but that was a diversion. He has to be where he plays best to get the best out of him and the whole team. If he was a striker he would have had 3 or more. Moyes shouldn't do it again.
Osman available will pose more problems about position - excellent support for Stracq in my opinion - and who knows what happens when Jelavic plays.
Time for Captain Phil to take a turn on the bench and give Strac and Jelavic a chance. Pienaar, Drenthe, Felliani and Gibson in the middle they will have plenty of time in training over the next 10 days. Jelavic is a goal scorer well he was up here in sunny Scotland and Srac seems to be finding form and goals.
Shouldn't need to choose, the board should give Moyes the money... But then again, I as mentioned on another thread, I hope Moyes goes at the end of this season... even if he wins the cup!
Exactly Keith, that was my point to John, he put in a shift and he was tracking back. Yeah, he didnt played too well, I actually thought he played a little better than you said actually, but he was tracking back.
Fair enough some of my points were misguided, but Saha and Yakubu were never Moyes type players as you call it.
But I dont believe in the "Moyes type". I agree that in the calibre of managers, Moyes demands a lot from his players, maybe compared to somebody like Vilas Boas.
But a lot of managers are like that. Ferguson, McCleish, Bruce, Redknapp?
I mean, explain to me John, what is a Moyes type player? Do it in like a google definition way.
Fair enough some of my points were misguided, but Saha and Yakubu were never Moyes type players as you call it.
But I dont believe in the "Moyes type". I agree that in the calibre of managers, Moyes demands a lot from his players, maybe compared to somebody like Vilas Boas.
But a lot of managers are like that. Ferguson, McCleish, Bruce, Redknapp?
I mean, explain to me John, what is a Moyes type player? Do it in like a google definition way.
"Do it in like a google definition way".
Fuck me.
I'll let Moyes (talking about Drenthe) explain what he expects as standard in a player:
?That would be the problem (helping out defensively),? said Moyes. ?At home it might be all right but away from home not so much.?
"We're happy when he get's the ball.
?But he?s got to understand there?s a lot of other things to the game as well.
?We expect that. We?ve always said Everton?s a hard working, industrious football club which expects its players to sweat blood and put everything they can into the game.
?And hopefully from there we can show we?re talented and can play good football as well.
People pay good money round here and the first part is they want to see you run up and down and be competitive."
See the emphasis on working without the ball, sweating blood, running about like a loon, being competitive? I'm not trying to make out this is all Moyes looks for in a player Ben, but it's the basic platform he expects any player to build from. If you possess further attributes (flair, technical ability, creativity etc) alongside the prerequisites of steady industry and graft then you'll be well in with the man. If you possess flair, creativity etc, but lack the basic work ethic Moyes expects as standard, or don't bring it to the table regularly enough, then you're never going to fully earn his trust and a regular place in the team.
Fuck me.
I'll let Moyes (talking about Drenthe) explain what he expects as standard in a player:
?That would be the problem (helping out defensively),? said Moyes. ?At home it might be all right but away from home not so much.?
"We're happy when he get's the ball.
?But he?s got to understand there?s a lot of other things to the game as well.
?We expect that. We?ve always said Everton?s a hard working, industrious football club which expects its players to sweat blood and put everything they can into the game.
?And hopefully from there we can show we?re talented and can play good football as well.
People pay good money round here and the first part is they want to see you run up and down and be competitive."
See the emphasis on working without the ball, sweating blood, running about like a loon, being competitive? I'm not trying to make out this is all Moyes looks for in a player Ben, but it's the basic platform he expects any player to build from. If you possess further attributes (flair, technical ability, creativity etc) alongside the prerequisites of steady industry and graft then you'll be well in with the man. If you possess flair, creativity etc, but lack the basic work ethic Moyes expects as standard, or don't bring it to the table regularly enough, then you're never going to fully earn his trust and a regular place in the team.
But John, to some degree he's right isn't he? Do you accept less than 100% from someone in a blue shirt?
Specifically talking about Drenthe, I suspect that when Moyes talks about putting in a shift he's actually talking about cutting out some of the ridiculous that goes with his sublime. It's just easier to talk about commitment to the team than say "he does a lot of fucking stupid things that don't put the team first".
And he does, doesn't he?
Specifically talking about Drenthe, I suspect that when Moyes talks about putting in a shift he's actually talking about cutting out some of the ridiculous that goes with his sublime. It's just easier to talk about commitment to the team than say "he does a lot of fucking stupid things that don't put the team first".
And he does, doesn't he?
the best will be signing Donovan permanently...
A hard working unfussy workhorse who will work himself into the ground.
OR
An attacking minded maverick who can nick a goal but also lose a lot of the ball.
You tell me who Moyes would prefer
OR
An attacking minded maverick who can nick a goal but also lose a lot of the ball.
You tell me who Moyes would prefer
Don't bother getting your hopes up for a permenent move for Drenthe. I've heard it from the horse's mouth that Moyes isn't a fan of him and Drenthe doesn't expect to be here after his loan spell. Moyes doesn't want him.
Sister's friend's Aunty's dog Robbie?
Horse's mouth would mean you're talking to Moyes no?
Horse's mouth would mean you're talking to Moyes no?
Horse's mouth means Drenthe, he is well aware of the managers dislike of him. I actually won't repeat the word he used to describe Moyes' view of him, but he does like the club, just doesn't expect to be kept on.
Robbie
Given the allegation that Moyes vets/scrutinises any potential recruit vis-a-vis character, fitinability etc...
as the lad's history was well known, Drenthe must have been a real panic loan as a sop to the fans
Given the allegation that Moyes vets/scrutinises any potential recruit vis-a-vis character, fitinability etc...
as the lad's history was well known, Drenthe must have been a real panic loan as a sop to the fans
What's his dislike? Personal or professional? Either way, that's nothing that can't be put right when improving the team is key. And Drenthe has half a season to show that Moyes needs to take him on.
I don't quite understand the argument about Moyes' "ego" getting in the way of signing Drenthe. I've never got the impression that he has that kind of issue with players. Might disagree with his decisions, or his criteria for judging talent, but I don't think he's petty in that sense.
I don't know which one I'd want to see signed. I think a lot of the "buzz" when Drenthe gets the ball is as much based on hope as on expectation. While there's certainly been flashes of great play; and against Blackpool he looked great, he's frankly as bad as Neville for his ability to give the ball directly to the opposition from about five yards away. I don't think we...or really any team...are in the position to carry a player three games out of four, in the hope that he'll be great in the fourth.
On that basis I think that Moyes is right about developing Drenthe's work ethic; because it's that effort and work ethic that brings consistency. The best "flair" players in the world are those that also work their bollocks off during a game and in training.
Strac I like because he makes Moyes' preferred 4-5-1 look more potent. I'd like more flexibility, but 4-5-1 isn't inherently a defensive formation if there's a focal point up front who can make the ball stick and bring other players into the attack. We haven't had that for a while though. I get the feeling that Strac is definitely a player who needs to be in the team consistently, though; and is he going to have that opportunity once Jelavic is fit?
So...in summary...I dunno. :)
I don't know which one I'd want to see signed. I think a lot of the "buzz" when Drenthe gets the ball is as much based on hope as on expectation. While there's certainly been flashes of great play; and against Blackpool he looked great, he's frankly as bad as Neville for his ability to give the ball directly to the opposition from about five yards away. I don't think we...or really any team...are in the position to carry a player three games out of four, in the hope that he'll be great in the fourth.
On that basis I think that Moyes is right about developing Drenthe's work ethic; because it's that effort and work ethic that brings consistency. The best "flair" players in the world are those that also work their bollocks off during a game and in training.
Strac I like because he makes Moyes' preferred 4-5-1 look more potent. I'd like more flexibility, but 4-5-1 isn't inherently a defensive formation if there's a focal point up front who can make the ball stick and bring other players into the attack. We haven't had that for a while though. I get the feeling that Strac is definitely a player who needs to be in the team consistently, though; and is he going to have that opportunity once Jelavic is fit?
So...in summary...I dunno. :)
I'd like to know the opta stats on Drenthe giving the ball away. He might do it sometimes all too obviously, but percentage wise I'm sure there are much worse players in the team who don't bring with them half of what he does to our attack. We may possibly concede more with him in the team compared to say Osman, but we'll definitely score more with his inclusion.
Just look at the improvement Drenthe, Donovan and Pienaar have made to the side. When we looked really good a few years back it was because the midfield had so much attacking capability packed in it... Cahill, Arteta, Pienaar the main threats with Carsley sitting solid in the middle.
Obviously Donovan will be gone, but failing to retain Drenthe along with Pienaar will be a farce.
Obviously Donovan will be gone, but failing to retain Drenthe along with Pienaar will be a farce.
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979 Posted 19/02/2012 at 16:05:38
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