Season 2011-12
The Mail Bag
Player?s international chances limited at Everton?
47 Comments: I just saw that Saha has been called up to the French squad and it got me thinking about how our club is viewed further a field than the UK/Ireland.
Is it a coincidence that, less than a month after leaving us for a more ?fashionable? team, he is suddenly drafted into the national team? Would he have been called up if he were still at Everton?
I wonder if the same will happen for Arteta? he was never given a look in with the Spanish team, even when he was at his best for us. Will he get his chance now he?s at Arsenal?
Not that it really bothers me as personally I?d rather not see our players called up for meaningless internationals.
Bobby McDermott, Posted 23/02/2012 at 16:43:13
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I watched Arteta at the weekend. I've got as much chance of turning out for Spain as he has judging by his performance then.
I agree Ray. Yet another example of a player going nowhere after leaving Everton.
(With one obvious exception of course and we all know who that is!)
(With one obvious exception of course and we all know who that is!)
Forgot about that....think it was a couple of years ago and he picked up injury in the first training session.
Just thought it odd he was selected again, it's not as if his form has been great!!
Just thought it odd he was selected again, it's not as if his form has been great!!
Agree with your point though Bob. The England setup is one big clique too. Nice to see Baines has been included in Pearce's squad for the friendly but why Nancy Cole is the usual automatic first choice I have no idea. Five years ago he was unassailable but Baines overtook him 3 years ago in my opinion. If you play for a Sky-Four, London club or the shite you have a chance of a cap. How else could Johnson or Downing get inside an England shirt?
There's about 50 good reasons why Arteta didn't get a look in for Spain. You can watch them every week on Revista. The only time I thought he should was prior to his injury when he was in the top 3 or four most influencial players in the league.
Saha was called up a few times when he was with us. I think he either got injured playing or in the build up on a few occasions.
I think as a club we have done well for international call-ups with all our better English players getting called up at some point. Only Osman and Hibbert, who are too old to be starting out in international football, have missed out on a call-up.
Saha was called up a few times when he was with us. I think he either got injured playing or in the build up on a few occasions.
I think as a club we have done well for international call-ups with all our better English players getting called up at some point. Only Osman and Hibbert, who are too old to be starting out in international football, have missed out on a call-up.
The quick answer is no, the chances are not limited; however, they may be more restricted than a top 4 to 6 team due to European game experience. As a current team they don't have overly positive European experience.
Look at the players who have joined Everton only to then progress into their national teams.
Baines, Jagielka, Lescott, Andy Johnson, and even Phil Neville returned to the England set up whilst in an Everton shirt.
Youngsters who went straight into the international squads as Everton players:
Rooney, Coleman, Rodwell, Danny Cadamarteri, Jeffers to name a few.
Look at the players who have joined Everton only to then progress into their national teams.
Baines, Jagielka, Lescott, Andy Johnson, and even Phil Neville returned to the England set up whilst in an Everton shirt.
Youngsters who went straight into the international squads as Everton players:
Rooney, Coleman, Rodwell, Danny Cadamarteri, Jeffers to name a few.
Anthony, every one of those players are English, Irish in Colemans case, and I've no doubt the club is held in high regard within UK/Ireland.
My main point was around how is the clubs stature viewed further a field.
My main point was around how is the clubs stature viewed further a field.
HAHA Saha in the France squad? Is that a joke! Must be after his impressive outing at Stevenage. Benzema or Saha hmmm.
I think he did get called up last year and then got injured, story of his career!
I think he did get called up last year and then got injured, story of his career!
Dave, which Johnson are you referring to? Glen? If so, who would you have ahead of him at right-back for England?
Bobby,
The only one of our foreign legion who may have been good enough for international football was IMO Arteta. And his national side have got some of the greatest players to ever kick the ball playing for them.
Almost to a man our foreigner's are or have been international footballers. In Cahill, Pienaar and a few other cases quite often they are the main man. Heitinga's also now captaining the Dutch?
The only one of our foreign legion who may have been good enough for international football was IMO Arteta. And his national side have got some of the greatest players to ever kick the ball playing for them.
Almost to a man our foreigner's are or have been international footballers. In Cahill, Pienaar and a few other cases quite often they are the main man. Heitinga's also now captaining the Dutch?
Shane,
Micah Richards is 10x the player Glen Johnson will ever be.
Micah Richards is 10x the player Glen Johnson will ever be.
10x? I'd have to disagree. Still you'd have thought he was due a cap at least. Ditto Downing.
Shane, that is an easy one: Kyle Walker! He is class and will be the England right back for years to come.
Anthony Hawkins, I'm not saying you are wrong and this is in no way supposed to detract from the salient point which you made - as you include a number of unquestionable examples, but did Danny Cadamarteri really play for England????
Who in their right mind would have picked him! :-) Again, for clarity, it's so long ago that was one of ours that I can't even remember so I'm not suggesting it never happened ... but did he really play for England? Every other English striker must've been injured! Haha
Who in their right mind would have picked him! :-) Again, for clarity, it's so long ago that was one of ours that I can't even remember so I'm not suggesting it never happened ... but did he really play for England? Every other English striker must've been injured! Haha
Forgot about Walker. Fair point Rob as is Stephen's and doesn't help me to belittle Dave's point. Why would Capello, for example, not pick the best players? We do get some strange unfounded theories on Toffeeweb.
Bobby, what about Heitinga, Fellaini, Cahill, Howard, Mucha, Peinaar and even Anichebe? All internationals outside of the UK and Ireland.
In fact, its quite possible more of our foreign players are capped internationals than not.
In fact, its quite possible more of our foreign players are capped internationals than not.
Danny Cadamarteri was capped three times by the England national under-21 football team. He made his debut for the team on 17 November 1998 in a friendly match as a substitute against Czech Republic at Portman Road. His second appearance was over a year later on 29 March 2000, again as a substitute, against Yugoslavia. His final appearance for the team was on 24 May 2001 against Mexico.
What about Heitinga? He played in a World Cup Final ? you can't get much better than that. Saha was called up four times while with us.
What about Duffy? He has a chance now in RoI team!
I suspect Gibson's international career may prosper from his move to us.
And what about Coleman - he was called up to the Irish squad after moving to Everton from the more fashionable Sligo Rovers.
And what about Coleman - he was called up to the Irish squad after moving to Everton from the more fashionable Sligo Rovers.
GJ they were all established internationals when we signed them, with the exception of Anichebe obviously. Are there any who weren't established when we signed em but became so?
I know there is probably no substance to the point I was trying to make.....I just think I'm in shock that Saha was actually called up!!
I know there is probably no substance to the point I was trying to make.....I just think I'm in shock that Saha was actually called up!!
It's the norm in Ireland that League of Ireland players are not chosen to play for the national team; they usually have to prove themselves in the Premier League or Championship in England as the standard is higher before they are selected for the national team... so not an Everton thing.
Thank heavens for that. The best time to play teams is when they have a lot of players away on international duty and just come back for their next club match. The amount of times Everton do badly is where there are too many away playing for their country. Rodwell has been out since November having come back injured playing for England. And until then until Donovan started to play again for Everton, the results were bad without him.
In that case Bobby your whole arguement is flawed as the point of your post was about Saha, who was capped at France well before joining us, called up a number of times while with us, and now called up again once moved on.
You were probably joking Noel but you're probably right as far as the style of football played goes.
Think players who excel in Europe are always likely to catch the eye.
In sahas case I suppose he has been rejuvenated by the move and that upturn in form has led to the call up...
In sahas case I suppose he has been rejuvenated by the move and that upturn in form has led to the call up...
Shane Corcoran@768 So would Tom Cleverley have been picked for England after being injured for months if he was still on loan at Wigan?
Maybe Capello was just a tit as Warnock going the world cup before Baines and taking Ledley King who has a worse fitness record than Saha and Carragher not only going to South Africa but playing are absolute whoppers.
The England squad always has been and always will be a clique imo and that includes management. Stuart Pearce in charge Howard Wilkinson and Trevor Brooking still involved says it all for me.
Maybe Capello was just a tit as Warnock going the world cup before Baines and taking Ledley King who has a worse fitness record than Saha and Carragher not only going to South Africa but playing are absolute whoppers.
The England squad always has been and always will be a clique imo and that includes management. Stuart Pearce in charge Howard Wilkinson and Trevor Brooking still involved says it all for me.
Downing was pretty much a regular in the England side under McLaren, probably more so than since his move to the darkside. He also holds some sort of record for being the most capped attacking player for England without scoring a goal.
And Glenn Johnson is so far behind Richards and Walker it's not funny. But for some odd reason Pearce has felt the need to call up 3 right backs so he still gets a look in.
And Glenn Johnson is so far behind Richards and Walker it's not funny. But for some odd reason Pearce has felt the need to call up 3 right backs so he still gets a look in.
Karl, neither you nor I know but looking on it logically it makes no sense to do what's being suggested is being done. I don't care either way and the conspiracy theory has a lot of backing with the players picked. But then Fraizer Campbell and Darren Bent instead of Jermaine Defoe?
Glen Johnson being capped and international level at this point is ridiculous, we have at least 3 who are way ahead of him right now, with 2 already mentioned, Kyle Walker and Micah Richards, the other is Chris Smalling, who is equally as effective at centre half.
It has always been the way that if you play for Man Utd, Liverpool, Chelsea or Arsenal, no matter how bad or good you are, you will be called up for England....there are still elements of that now, Cleverley being a classic example.
A previous post mentioned how Cleverley has been injured for months, has literally only just come back and goes straight into the squad, this would not have happened during his Wigan days, another example of this was Jack Wilshire and Daniel Sturridge, whilst on loan at Bolton respectively neither was considered for England, yet as soon as their parent clubs (Arsenal & Chelsea) started playing them, boom, straight into the squad, or team in Wilshires case.
I'm of the thinking, that if you are good enough, regardless of club, you should be in the squad/team, this is one of the reasons why we will never win anything, because every manager will insist on picking reputations instead of form players!
It has always been the way that if you play for Man Utd, Liverpool, Chelsea or Arsenal, no matter how bad or good you are, you will be called up for England....there are still elements of that now, Cleverley being a classic example.
A previous post mentioned how Cleverley has been injured for months, has literally only just come back and goes straight into the squad, this would not have happened during his Wigan days, another example of this was Jack Wilshire and Daniel Sturridge, whilst on loan at Bolton respectively neither was considered for England, yet as soon as their parent clubs (Arsenal & Chelsea) started playing them, boom, straight into the squad, or team in Wilshires case.
I'm of the thinking, that if you are good enough, regardless of club, you should be in the squad/team, this is one of the reasons why we will never win anything, because every manager will insist on picking reputations instead of form players!
Lee, bang on the money with Wilshire and Sturridge at Bolton. Just how many goals did Sturridge score for them again??
Stewart Downing had potential, about 5 years ago, he is now a very average midfielder who, if he was right footed, would not be anywhere near the national team.
Stewart Downing had potential, about 5 years ago, he is now a very average midfielder who, if he was right footed, would not be anywhere near the national team.
Lee, bang on the money with Wilshire and Sturridge at Bolton. Just how many goals did Sturridge score for them again??
Stewart Downing had potential, about 5 years ago, he is now a very average midfielder who, if he was right footed, would not be anywhere near the national team.
Stewart Downing had potential, about 5 years ago, he is now a very average midfielder who, if he was right footed, would not be anywhere near the national team.
You could potentially argue the point with Wilshere and Sturridge that when they were out on loan it was all part of their development and they have now become more complete players and therefore more ready for international football, but Frazier Campbell, really? They might as well call up Kevin Campbell
Downing is another one who I despair with, the guy as you mention is average, and the only thing in his favour is he has a left foot, which could be argued as to whether he knows how to use it. Not sure how true this is but I heard that Raul Meireles actually has more assists for Liverpool this season than Downing...even if not true, is very believable.
Adam Johnson is considerably better than him and should be ahead of him every time!
Adam Johnson is considerably better than him and should be ahead of him every time!
Theo Walcott.
Going to a World Cup without a first team game/goal. Would that have happened if he were still at Southampton?
Laughable.
Going to a World Cup without a first team game/goal. Would that have happened if he were still at Southampton?
Laughable.
Ray....agree 100%
That was possibly the most ridiculous decision I've witnessed!
Sven argued this would benefit England in future Euro's and World Cups....which he is correct, we now have another player we can leave out of tournaments.
That was possibly the most ridiculous decision I've witnessed!
Sven argued this would benefit England in future Euro's and World Cups....which he is correct, we now have another player we can leave out of tournaments.
Lee, the wind has the same amount of assists as Downing (Howard's goal)...whose first assist this season came last weekend in the cup for the rat's header
Tony, that actually made me laugh out loud! Which in work is not the best thing!ha
Didn't Barmby go straight into the England team after joining the shite from us? Although that could have as much to do with the fact that England had just stank the place out at Euro 2000 and were looking to rebuild.
Noel, Barmby went to Euro 2000 as an Everton player
Let's face it guys the selection is down to the choice of one man and that man is the manager. Most managers will have there own favourites. I always believed way back that the majority of England players selected for Wembly games usually came from the London clubs for the most part to boost attendances particularly for friendly games.
However it seems the England managers of late particularly the foreign ones seem to be swayed by the press.
Without doubt Howard Kendall would have played for England at least once had he been a Manure player or with a London club.
Don't know why Saha is suddenly called up for France except maybe because France have been rubbish in the last few years but he was in the London limelight recently and scoring 2 nice goals which may have tipped the scales in his favour.
For my money Arteta when at his best was more than a match than Xavi Alonzo who often gets picked for Spain.
However it seems the England managers of late particularly the foreign ones seem to be swayed by the press.
Without doubt Howard Kendall would have played for England at least once had he been a Manure player or with a London club.
Don't know why Saha is suddenly called up for France except maybe because France have been rubbish in the last few years but he was in the London limelight recently and scoring 2 nice goals which may have tipped the scales in his favour.
For my money Arteta when at his best was more than a match than Xavi Alonzo who often gets picked for Spain.
Andrew,
I know. That's why I said he went into the team (not the Euro 2000 squad of 22/23 players) straight after joining Liverpool.
I know. That's why I said he went into the team (not the Euro 2000 squad of 22/23 players) straight after joining Liverpool.
Dave (#746) I reckon the reason why Cole is still ahead of Baines in the England team, is because Cole out of the two, is better at the defensive side of the game, and whilst Baines is probalby just the better of the two going forward, Cole can still do the bizz as an attacking full - back.
And Cole has proven it at the highest level.
I'd pick Baines ahead of him, but you can't disagree too much with the principle of picking players with Champions League experience.
I'd pick Baines ahead of him, but you can't disagree too much with the principle of picking players with Champions League experience.
As an outside observer (After the US, I root for England's side), I'm surprised the bulk of the players chosen are "Top 4" types. Appreciate they have much to do with their Clubs being "Top 4" type Clubs. But that's the be-all-end-all for making the National Team certainly shrinks the available talent pool, Players the quality of Baines and Jags hoping for a look-in? Really?
A peculiar way to build a National Team.
A peculiar way to build a National Team.
You look at the past Italian and West Germany sides they're built entirely of Juve and Bayern Munich players respectively. The old Soviet team was essentially Dynamo Kiev. There are synergies and understandings between players that play week in week out at the same club that you just can't replicate over the odd month in a tournament held every 2 or 4 years. Ashley Cole maybe crap but if Terry is not gonna trust or know where the fuck Baines is off maurading than as manager I'll simply pick Cole. If manure had 11 English players at the time you can bet Hoddle would've chosen from 1 premier league club.
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734 Posted 23/02/2012 at 16:54:17
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