Season 2011-12
The Mail Bag
Have glory days gone for ever?
53 Comments: My old man, who would certainly call himself an Evertonian, has been to only a handful of our games since the 1995 Cup Final. These days, he prefers to give his walk-up money to local non-leaguers, Marine. He constantly chides me about the length of time and amount of money I devote to our club and gives as the reason for his loss of interest, the team`s total inability to entertain him.
Like many of his generation, his Everton addiction spanned the years from Carey to Royle, encompassing as they did the glory days of Catterick and Kendall Mk 1. "There was some real shite played in the seventies and early eighties," he always tells me, "But we always KNEW success was just around the corner. You, my son, can have NO hope that those days will ever return ? the game`s crap, and coaches like Moyes are to blame!"
Because I have heard this so often, I judge my Everton only on their Premier League record (my years as a paying supporter). What we were like before that I have no idea ? but I do know that Moyes's time has brought me more joy than all the time that went before... except, perhaps, that brief resurgence under Big Joe.
With at least 15,000 apparently sharing the ald fella's views, is it conceivable that some of them might one day return? Or, as he believes, have the glory days gone for ever?
Richard Dodd, Posted 03/03/2012 at 11:51:12
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Richard, I used to dismiss you as a wind up merchant. Recently I have changed my views and I believe you are a genuine Evertonian whose views differ from mine. I think you have written an excellent post.
Have the glory days gone for ever? I don't think so. I think we might win the FA cup and if we don't,well, we might win it next year. In many ways it is about expectation. My expectations are low;top half and cup runs are what I expect.
Good football is another expectation but I think bad football and safety will do. What I find unacceptable is bad football and bad results and that is what we get August to January every year.It is my view that someone other than David Moyes could do better but it is not an entrenched view and I have read decent arguments on this site that have made me re-examine it.
The glory days will never be gone at Goodison Park because glory is all relative. Good post, Richard.
Have the glory days gone for ever? I don't think so. I think we might win the FA cup and if we don't,well, we might win it next year. In many ways it is about expectation. My expectations are low;top half and cup runs are what I expect.
Good football is another expectation but I think bad football and safety will do. What I find unacceptable is bad football and bad results and that is what we get August to January every year.It is my view that someone other than David Moyes could do better but it is not an entrenched view and I have read decent arguments on this site that have made me re-examine it.
The glory days will never be gone at Goodison Park because glory is all relative. Good post, Richard.
It depends what you mean by Glory Days. Because of the nature of the competitions, we can certainly win the FA Cup or Carlton Cup. But we will never win the Championship, and that to me is what real glory is. Winning the FA Cup in 1984 was just the hors d'oeuvre to the glorious Championships of 1985 and 1987.
Until and unless a billionaire arrives (or - FAR FAR better - the whole Sky/Champions League edifice implodes) our young, and I suppose approaching-middle aged, fans will never know the feeling of seeing the Final Table with Everton on top.
Good post Doddy.
Until and unless a billionaire arrives (or - FAR FAR better - the whole Sky/Champions League edifice implodes) our young, and I suppose approaching-middle aged, fans will never know the feeling of seeing the Final Table with Everton on top.
Good post Doddy.
Under the current regime and management of the team, I don't think we'll win a thing.
Success is a relative term these days.
For me its about winning the league, winning trophies.
For fans who haven't seen us win the league or even a cup but qualify for the uefa, I suppose that to them is success.
We are a very long way from ever winning the Premier League, and since the Sky / Champions League is getting stronger rather than weaker, just reinforces the fact that we are just a mid-table mediocre team with no long-term plans except to stay in the Prem... for me, this is completely unacceptable.
Unless boardroom and team management is changed, we'll win nothing ? nada... so, in closing, the glory days have gone... but forever? I don't think so.
Success is a relative term these days.
For me its about winning the league, winning trophies.
For fans who haven't seen us win the league or even a cup but qualify for the uefa, I suppose that to them is success.
We are a very long way from ever winning the Premier League, and since the Sky / Champions League is getting stronger rather than weaker, just reinforces the fact that we are just a mid-table mediocre team with no long-term plans except to stay in the Prem... for me, this is completely unacceptable.
Unless boardroom and team management is changed, we'll win nothing ? nada... so, in closing, the glory days have gone... but forever? I don't think so.
Doddy
I share Andy 069 sentiments .
I thought you were a bit like that and very pro the current regime. However I commend your post, thought provoking .
Especially your comments about your dads reference to moyes. I have discussed with friends and family extensively whether the glory days will return or the arse will fall out of it ! I'm 32 now and I really hope it does.
Now stop winding people up ;-)
I share Andy 069 sentiments .
I thought you were a bit like that and very pro the current regime. However I commend your post, thought provoking .
Especially your comments about your dads reference to moyes. I have discussed with friends and family extensively whether the glory days will return or the arse will fall out of it ! I'm 32 now and I really hope it does.
Now stop winding people up ;-)
Your old man is right Richard ? the big change now is there is no entertainment. Aside from the City and Chelsea games, every match has been the same ? we have known exactly what would happen. For a variety of reasons we have a manager who parks the bus in his own half and plays a lone striker up front. So how can this possibly entertain anyone?
At least in the old days we played with 2 wingers and at least 4 attackers. Some of the players were awful but there was still the possibility of some excitement. And the managers did win things ? cups, league titles but Moyes has won nothing. We will be up against Liverpool, Chelsea and Spurs if we beat Sunderland so our chances of winning the cup are minimal although you are right to dream.
I am really sorry for all Evertonians if Moyes's time has brought them the most joy because that in itself is a terrible reflection on the shite football we have to put up with at Goodison.
At least in the old days we played with 2 wingers and at least 4 attackers. Some of the players were awful but there was still the possibility of some excitement. And the managers did win things ? cups, league titles but Moyes has won nothing. We will be up against Liverpool, Chelsea and Spurs if we beat Sunderland so our chances of winning the cup are minimal although you are right to dream.
I am really sorry for all Evertonians if Moyes's time has brought them the most joy because that in itself is a terrible reflection on the shite football we have to put up with at Goodison.
I'm with your dad and in my opinion he should twat you for promoting what goes on under this regime.
That aside, the 2 of you are a microcosm of the transition of Everton, acceptance of garbage and making excuses is anathema to the likes of your dad and me - nil satis it was, nil satis it will always be.
However, you are not alone many accept the present everton as good work for the reasons you say - don't know any better. My guess is more turn away than take that view.
We need a team providing hope to bring people back, people forget the Newcastle renaissance under Keegan was achieved winning fuck all (the Championship - who cares?). But they developed an attacking style which not only brought the fans back (they were getting 5k attendances) but competed, neither of which have been at GP under BK/ DM.
We're going nowhere and have been for as long as your dad said - perhaps it's no wonder you piss about the way you do.
That aside, the 2 of you are a microcosm of the transition of Everton, acceptance of garbage and making excuses is anathema to the likes of your dad and me - nil satis it was, nil satis it will always be.
However, you are not alone many accept the present everton as good work for the reasons you say - don't know any better. My guess is more turn away than take that view.
We need a team providing hope to bring people back, people forget the Newcastle renaissance under Keegan was achieved winning fuck all (the Championship - who cares?). But they developed an attacking style which not only brought the fans back (they were getting 5k attendances) but competed, neither of which have been at GP under BK/ DM.
We're going nowhere and have been for as long as your dad said - perhaps it's no wonder you piss about the way you do.
Barry (093), your comment..
"I'm with your dad and in my opinion he should twat you for promoting what goes on under this regime"
..is the funniest I have read on TW in a while.
Oh and I agree with you totally.
"I'm with your dad and in my opinion he should twat you for promoting what goes on under this regime"
..is the funniest I have read on TW in a while.
Oh and I agree with you totally.
I totally agree with your old man. I never thought that anything could stop me from watching my beloved blues... Gordon Lee tried his best in the seventies but, thanks to fan power, he was eventually dispatched to total anonymity he so richly deserved. In his defence, I can even remember the odd good game I witnessed under his command, largely because we had a centre-forward called Latchford.
We now have the most negative football-clueless manager that ever sat in a dugout; and not only has he managed to stop me from going to the match, I find myself not being bothered to watch them on TV because there is just no entertainment value. I plead with all Evertonions pull togeather and get this moron out (and his boss) before Goodison is empty and all our youngsters move to the darkside.
We now have the most negative football-clueless manager that ever sat in a dugout; and not only has he managed to stop me from going to the match, I find myself not being bothered to watch them on TV because there is just no entertainment value. I plead with all Evertonions pull togeather and get this moron out (and his boss) before Goodison is empty and all our youngsters move to the darkside.
Interesting post. I remember Joe Royle talking after we had won the cup about the semi final game against Spurs. He was in two minds about which tactics and formation to adopt. Ultimately he said that he thought he would stop worrying about the opposition and go out and attack them. Those tactics and mindset helped win the FA Cup.
With regard to Moyes I think the polarised views that you see on Toffeeweb are too simplistic. Given the resources at his disposal I find it hard to argue that Moyes isn't a good manager. However I also think he is negative and is limited in his tactics. Ultimately I don't want to carry on watching the type of football that his mindset and footballing philosophy generate. So in that sense I am definitely with your dad.
My views on the current regime are a lot clearer cut: they are an incompetent bunch of chancers who shouldn't be running Everton and until they have gone I don't think we have any chance of the glory times returning.
With regard to Moyes I think the polarised views that you see on Toffeeweb are too simplistic. Given the resources at his disposal I find it hard to argue that Moyes isn't a good manager. However I also think he is negative and is limited in his tactics. Ultimately I don't want to carry on watching the type of football that his mindset and footballing philosophy generate. So in that sense I am definitely with your dad.
My views on the current regime are a lot clearer cut: they are an incompetent bunch of chancers who shouldn't be running Everton and until they have gone I don't think we have any chance of the glory times returning.
Explains a lot, Richard
I was lucky to have been a youngster watching Young, Kay, Gabriel, Wilson then growing up with Ball, Harvey and Kendall, then onto Dave Thomas, Latchford, McKenzie, Southall, Sheedy, Reid, Steven etc
Only Kanchelkis of YOUR Everton, Doddy. is fit to be mentioned in that company
I've said to you in the past, my age-group has had the footballing equivalent of shagging Kate Bush and Alexandra Bastedo (aslk your dad) and we won't now make do with waking up with the Chuckle Brothers
I was lucky to have been a youngster watching Young, Kay, Gabriel, Wilson then growing up with Ball, Harvey and Kendall, then onto Dave Thomas, Latchford, McKenzie, Southall, Sheedy, Reid, Steven etc
Only Kanchelkis of YOUR Everton, Doddy. is fit to be mentioned in that company
I've said to you in the past, my age-group has had the footballing equivalent of shagging Kate Bush and Alexandra Bastedo (aslk your dad) and we won't now make do with waking up with the Chuckle Brothers
I meant to include in this post a reference to the only time I have ever seen the arl fella shed a tear ? and we`ve had some traumas in our family over the years, I can tell you!
For his 70th birthday, last year, I acquired for him a pirate copy of `The Golden Vision`. It meant little to me, but I had heard him refer to it ever since I was a kid.
When I passed it to him at the family celebration and suggested we watch it together, he just welled up and said "Fuck off, son ? you just wouldn`t understand!" I've never watched the film.
For his 70th birthday, last year, I acquired for him a pirate copy of `The Golden Vision`. It meant little to me, but I had heard him refer to it ever since I was a kid.
When I passed it to him at the family celebration and suggested we watch it together, he just welled up and said "Fuck off, son ? you just wouldn`t understand!" I've never watched the film.
My God Richard, your last post explains everything.
Richard; your dad sounds like a great fella. Treasure the moments with him, listen to what he says about the old days and reflect on the crap we have to watch now. Oh yeah< ask him if he can lend Moyes the dvd and see whats proper football and footballers look like.
Does your father have a dog, Richard? If so, I hope they're both in good health.
Gone forever under the current incumbents.
Money has fucked it too .
Managers are shit scared of losing as premiership survival is more important than anything else . We don't need to adopt thus philosophy with our current squad though.
That's the criticism
Managers are shit scared of losing as premiership survival is more important than anything else . We don't need to adopt thus philosophy with our current squad though.
That's the criticism
Richard. Yes they have gone.
Like Phil my heroes were Labone, Gabriel, Vernon, Young and the early 60's team.
The Sky era has taken away the equality of football totally.
What is quite surprising is that your dad sounds a great guy.
How is that his son talks so much shite ??
Seriously, after listening to your dad and posts from us older guys, how can you and the usual suspects continue to put out so much crap about the glories of Kenwright et al ??
Admittedly times and circumstances change but to blindly promote Kenwright the way you do I am amazed your dad gives you the time of day.
Like Phil my heroes were Labone, Gabriel, Vernon, Young and the early 60's team.
The Sky era has taken away the equality of football totally.
What is quite surprising is that your dad sounds a great guy.
How is that his son talks so much shite ??
Seriously, after listening to your dad and posts from us older guys, how can you and the usual suspects continue to put out so much crap about the glories of Kenwright et al ??
Admittedly times and circumstances change but to blindly promote Kenwright the way you do I am amazed your dad gives you the time of day.
As a 24-year-old Evertonian all my life, I was 7 years old when we won the FA Cup in 1995, which i barely remember. I have seen some dross over the years: Idan Tal and all that... I can safely say though that in my opinion watching Walter Smith's dross was a lot worse than watching us now. We were shite then, maybe we are not that much better now, but I feel we still have some good footballers now.
I wish I had of seen the times my dad did too, Doddy; he recalls the Holy Trinity, Latchford, Sheedy, Gray, Sharp etc and even he says himself that we will never return to them days, unless we get a Man City style takeover which is unlikely with who we have running us. But all-in-all I wouldn't change a thing: this club is my life. Yeah, we have shitty days, but then some times you just get a moment like the FA Cup semi-final v Manure, or AJ ripping the shit outta the Redshite.
I am Everton till I die and I still dream and hope we can win some things in my lifetime supporting us, it will be sweet as fuck and hopefully this is the year in the FA Cup. COYB!
I wish I had of seen the times my dad did too, Doddy; he recalls the Holy Trinity, Latchford, Sheedy, Gray, Sharp etc and even he says himself that we will never return to them days, unless we get a Man City style takeover which is unlikely with who we have running us. But all-in-all I wouldn't change a thing: this club is my life. Yeah, we have shitty days, but then some times you just get a moment like the FA Cup semi-final v Manure, or AJ ripping the shit outta the Redshite.
I am Everton till I die and I still dream and hope we can win some things in my lifetime supporting us, it will be sweet as fuck and hopefully this is the year in the FA Cup. COYB!
Coincidentally, from our leader, just..."I would hope there has been progress but it was always a really big club and I will try and take it back to the glory days of the eighties"
Whoa,Doddy,most thought provoking post I`ve read for ages!
But where did that come from? Only this morning you were posting shit like ``Eight is Great`!
I`ve never met you or your dad but I suspect I`d have more in common with him than you have!
And how come he never `brung you up proper`and told you what those `years of our lives`were like?
But the more I learn of your antecedents,the less excuse you have for coming over as such a prat!
But where did that come from? Only this morning you were posting shit like ``Eight is Great`!
I`ve never met you or your dad but I suspect I`d have more in common with him than you have!
And how come he never `brung you up proper`and told you what those `years of our lives`were like?
But the more I learn of your antecedents,the less excuse you have for coming over as such a prat!
Type or paste your comment here. No txt-speak, please try to use proper grammar, all-lowercase posts are likely to be deleted
Sorry for the last - empty - post.
I was laughing so much I pressed the wrong tit.
'Does your father have a dog, Richard? If so, I hope they're both in good health.'
Absolutely priceless - ha ha ha!.
I was laughing so much I pressed the wrong tit.
'Does your father have a dog, Richard? If so, I hope they're both in good health.'
Absolutely priceless - ha ha ha!.
"I've said to you in the past, my age-group has had the footballing equivalent of shagging Kate Bush and Alexandra Bastedo (aslk your dad) and we won't now make do with waking up with the Chuckle Brothers"
Mmmm......Alexandra Bastedo......
One of the most beautiful women ever.
Mmmm......Alexandra Bastedo......
One of the most beautiful women ever.
Eh, you! Brian...young man...no chatting up my bird
You're right though - she's up there with Debbie Harry and Lesley Hornby
You're right though - she's up there with Debbie Harry and Lesley Hornby
Phil, I saw her on tv about ten years ago talking about her dogs refuge or something. She must have been about 60 and she would still have knocked all the 'mature dating' ladies into a cocked hat.
I 'ad that Gayle Hunnicut in the back of my cab once....
I 'ad that Gayle Hunnicut in the back of my cab once....
You bastard!
The love of my life was an older girl from Essex I met in the 60s - she was in a group and an actress and, with the high life she was leading she left me behind, sadly sadly
Still - there's plenty of women but only one Everton, I thought
Next time I saw her, her nipple was being mistaken for a light-switch by Basil Fawlty
The love of my life was an older girl from Essex I met in the 60s - she was in a group and an actress and, with the high life she was leading she left me behind, sadly sadly
Still - there's plenty of women but only one Everton, I thought
Next time I saw her, her nipple was being mistaken for a light-switch by Basil Fawlty
Nah, you're having me on - Luan Peters? I used to have a pic of her on my wall at college. She was next to Pamela Stephenson, so was in good company.
Phil - Alexandra Bastedo, beautiful no doubt but a bit too cold and knowing for me at 14. In those days, my fantasies usually involved defiling someone sweeter and less worldly wise (ok easily duped then). Consequently I spent a good few years mentally bang-at-it with the innocent looking Madeline Smith. She and her superb natural rackage often appeared in two Ronnies sketches, so while the rest pf the family were chortling at the single entendres of the boys, I was 'banking' mental images of her (and her magnificent cleavage) for use after Match Of The Day.
Ah Phil, Lesley Hornby, the first woman I ever had a crush on, I was a12-year-old boy when she introduced me to fellings I'd never had before.
No they haven't... FA Cup this season, Europe next season. A buyer with pockets deeper than Einsteins thinking will arrive in between, he will spend a fortune to buy us the PL title in 2014 and send us on a run of uninterrupted glory for the following twenty years.
In 2018, my 7-year-old grandson will sign for us; 10 years later, he will score on his debut and lead us to even greater heights during his career with just one club........
Okay, it's a dream, but isn't that what being a supporter is about? No disrespect to your Dad but, to isolate a period of success and then give up because you don't believe it can happen again is daft.
Everton FC is a massive club, it's massive because the supporters have stuck by it through thick and thin, good times and bad over our 134-year history; our day will come again.
ps: Richard, here's a bit of Einstein just for you. "Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth." ? Albert Einstein
In 2018, my 7-year-old grandson will sign for us; 10 years later, he will score on his debut and lead us to even greater heights during his career with just one club........
Okay, it's a dream, but isn't that what being a supporter is about? No disrespect to your Dad but, to isolate a period of success and then give up because you don't believe it can happen again is daft.
Everton FC is a massive club, it's massive because the supporters have stuck by it through thick and thin, good times and bad over our 134-year history; our day will come again.
ps: Richard, here's a bit of Einstein just for you. "Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth." ? Albert Einstein
Richard; If you want some one to ' tell me it ain't so Joe ' a) you're on the wrong site, try the Samaritans. b) your Dad's spot on... baring a miracle.
Richard; more to the point, you have had some sort of Road to Damascus moment wether you admit it or not. Apart from your Dad, what caused the Kenwright scales to fall from your eyes?
EJ...Maddy Smith and Ingrid Pitt
Even the SJ couldn't bury the stirrings deep enough
Brian..yep, if Luan had've played her cards right...but she "was" a wee bit older!
Even the SJ couldn't bury the stirrings deep enough
Brian..yep, if Luan had've played her cards right...but she "was" a wee bit older!
In the 'Good Old Days' most teams had a few 'locals' who played for them which gave them an anchor to and understanding of what results against certain teams really mean. Some still do but not nearly as many as before.
Nowadays, most players are just overpaid mercenaries with no loyalty to the club, just to their 'Agents' and Bank Managers. It's the Sky 'set up' which has brought this about and allowing Millionaires and Billionaires to use clubs as personal playthings to boost their own ego's.
Unless a more even 'FINANCIAL' playing field is introduced in to Football it will remain as it is ie, The Prem title will go to whoever pays the most in transfer fees and players salaries and the rest of the Prem, Everton included, will be left to fight over the the scraps, the occasional Cup win and Europa League outings after finishing 5th on down.
Nowadays, most players are just overpaid mercenaries with no loyalty to the club, just to their 'Agents' and Bank Managers. It's the Sky 'set up' which has brought this about and allowing Millionaires and Billionaires to use clubs as personal playthings to boost their own ego's.
Unless a more even 'FINANCIAL' playing field is introduced in to Football it will remain as it is ie, The Prem title will go to whoever pays the most in transfer fees and players salaries and the rest of the Prem, Everton included, will be left to fight over the the scraps, the occasional Cup win and Europa League outings after finishing 5th on down.
Mick Wrende #085 writes -
"I am really sorry for all Evertonians if Moyes's time has brought them the most joy because that in itself is a terrible reflection on the shite football we have to put up with at Goodison."
How very sad and how very true.
"I am really sorry for all Evertonians if Moyes's time has brought them the most joy because that in itself is a terrible reflection on the shite football we have to put up with at Goodison."
How very sad and how very true.
Richard
Your old man is correct I'm afraid. Perhaps a flukey Carling Cup but never anything significant.
Your old man is correct I'm afraid. Perhaps a flukey Carling Cup but never anything significant.
My formative years in the boys pen saw us win the title 69-70 but I was too young to really appreciate it. I think it put me on a par with the kopites: ie, the expectation that this was where EFC should be and every season would be a success.
The dream turned into a nightmare in my teenage years after Catterick decided to destroy all the good he had built up and got rid of players like Ball and Whittle and brought in the Newtons and other crap. Labone retired, we got Bingham and Lee and a whole decade was was one long nightmare following my beloved but useless blues all over the country.
The only thing that kept me going was the belief that one day soon, everything would change and normal service resumed, and thanks to Howie and the lads, we returned to the top once more. Sadly, it didn't last long enough and even my son became a rednose and I don't have the same belief anymore that the good times will return.
Gone are the days when Ipswich, Derby, Forest etc. can win titles and I'm afraid we've been left behind with them. The only consolation is that we haven't sold our souls to foreign mercenaries like Mandaric.
BK may be a bullshitter and skint, but he is one of us with the club at heart. If only he could see that his manager wouldn't be fit to clean the shoes of some of his predecessors, we may begin to make progress once again. A good manager can take a club further than the laws of BSkyB dictate. Just look at Brendan Rodgers or Paul Lambert...
The dream turned into a nightmare in my teenage years after Catterick decided to destroy all the good he had built up and got rid of players like Ball and Whittle and brought in the Newtons and other crap. Labone retired, we got Bingham and Lee and a whole decade was was one long nightmare following my beloved but useless blues all over the country.
The only thing that kept me going was the belief that one day soon, everything would change and normal service resumed, and thanks to Howie and the lads, we returned to the top once more. Sadly, it didn't last long enough and even my son became a rednose and I don't have the same belief anymore that the good times will return.
Gone are the days when Ipswich, Derby, Forest etc. can win titles and I'm afraid we've been left behind with them. The only consolation is that we haven't sold our souls to foreign mercenaries like Mandaric.
BK may be a bullshitter and skint, but he is one of us with the club at heart. If only he could see that his manager wouldn't be fit to clean the shoes of some of his predecessors, we may begin to make progress once again. A good manager can take a club further than the laws of BSkyB dictate. Just look at Brendan Rodgers or Paul Lambert...
I think your dad is really talking about his own ageing and mortality.
Mick Davies 173 Spot on about Swansea and Norwich,Bpool, Hull, Reading and QPR for that matter.
They shouldn't be able to even get out of the Championship. I think Sky would like it to be the perogative of the 'Bigger' yo-yo Clubs City, Newcastle, Sunderland, West Ham etc.
They shouldn't be able to even get out of the Championship. I think Sky would like it to be the perogative of the 'Bigger' yo-yo Clubs City, Newcastle, Sunderland, West Ham etc.
Richard, you're old man may have a point but i'm afraid i will never agree with anyone who says there is no hope. No-one knows for sure what lies around the corner so i prefer to believe that it might be something good and no-one can tell me otherwise.
Hey, Sam! That`s just why me and me Da don`t get on!
Richard
Listen to you dad he knows what he is talking about and have some respect and watch the golden vision dvd you bought him. I still go but I am afraid I am often bored. David Moyes is a good man but is indicative of the decline of attacking intentions of many coaches in modern football. Gordon Lees team were far more attack minded than Moyes.
On a equally important debate I claimed to be interested in the TV series bouquet of barbed wire to ogle the sensual Susan Pehhaligon. Males of a certain age will understand.
Listen to you dad he knows what he is talking about and have some respect and watch the golden vision dvd you bought him. I still go but I am afraid I am often bored. David Moyes is a good man but is indicative of the decline of attacking intentions of many coaches in modern football. Gordon Lees team were far more attack minded than Moyes.
On a equally important debate I claimed to be interested in the TV series bouquet of barbed wire to ogle the sensual Susan Pehhaligon. Males of a certain age will understand.
Nothing lasts for ever. If I would have gone into a bookmakers in 1990 and asked for a price on the RS not winning the league for 20 years, what odds would I have got?
All dynasties and empires come to an end and I think it will be the financial crisis that wil eventually do football. Quite how long Barca & Real can party like it's 1999(well 2007) remains to be seen. And as for the economic basket case that is the EPL....don't get me started.
But Doddy's (or Doddy's dad's) main point was about entertainment, and that football aIn't wot is used to be. Last year I was being dragged 'round an 'antiques' fair by 'er indoors and I came across Charlie Buchans football monthly mags from the sixties, and the first page I turned to was an article saying that-yes, modern football is rubbish, it was far better in my day etc etc.
These days I think players are better organised defensively and are a lot fitter, so they can run and close down all afternoon, and coaches like to 'keep it tight'.
But the entertainers v water carriers debate has been going on since I've been watching football, with players like Duncan McKenzie, Stan Bowles, Rodney Marsh, Matt le Tissier etc, who were generally loved by punters, but hated by coaches. Just count how many medals and caps they have between them.
So have the good times gone forever? probably, would I put the mortgage on it GTF
All dynasties and empires come to an end and I think it will be the financial crisis that wil eventually do football. Quite how long Barca & Real can party like it's 1999(well 2007) remains to be seen. And as for the economic basket case that is the EPL....don't get me started.
But Doddy's (or Doddy's dad's) main point was about entertainment, and that football aIn't wot is used to be. Last year I was being dragged 'round an 'antiques' fair by 'er indoors and I came across Charlie Buchans football monthly mags from the sixties, and the first page I turned to was an article saying that-yes, modern football is rubbish, it was far better in my day etc etc.
These days I think players are better organised defensively and are a lot fitter, so they can run and close down all afternoon, and coaches like to 'keep it tight'.
But the entertainers v water carriers debate has been going on since I've been watching football, with players like Duncan McKenzie, Stan Bowles, Rodney Marsh, Matt le Tissier etc, who were generally loved by punters, but hated by coaches. Just count how many medals and caps they have between them.
So have the good times gone forever? probably, would I put the mortgage on it GTF
Had a feeling you might be more of the half glass full type Doddy...
Saw Everton in the old Second Division, we beat Plynouth 8-4, still waiting to see twelve goals in a game, thank God. I missed the 10-4 at Spurs.
Under the present setup, the glory days have gone, the Merseyside Millionaires, the School of Science etc are a memory, nothing else. But some idiot in Dubai or Hong Kong may decide to pour his dubiously gained billions into Everton and we're the new City, Chelsea or Paris Saint Germain.
Football's an ephemeral world and five years ago, no one would have seen City as challenging the "permanent" four of Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool and United. Let's hope for the billionaire.
Under the present setup, the glory days have gone, the Merseyside Millionaires, the School of Science etc are a memory, nothing else. But some idiot in Dubai or Hong Kong may decide to pour his dubiously gained billions into Everton and we're the new City, Chelsea or Paris Saint Germain.
Football's an ephemeral world and five years ago, no one would have seen City as challenging the "permanent" four of Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool and United. Let's hope for the billionaire.
You can't just give up on your team because they don't win anything or play great football.
The whole point of being a supporter is the hoping and dreaming of what one day might be. All the set backs and dismal displays just make all the sweeter when you finally achieve something.
I've never seen the "glory days" at Goodison. Probably never will.
But I'm not gonna stop dreaming about it. And I will never stop supporting the team. Regardless of who's in charge or the quality of the football they play.
If you want success and entertainment just become a glory hunter. It's guaranteed. Every single year. Without fail. It's nailed on. Simples.
The whole point of being a supporter is the hoping and dreaming of what one day might be. All the set backs and dismal displays just make all the sweeter when you finally achieve something.
I've never seen the "glory days" at Goodison. Probably never will.
But I'm not gonna stop dreaming about it. And I will never stop supporting the team. Regardless of who's in charge or the quality of the football they play.
If you want success and entertainment just become a glory hunter. It's guaranteed. Every single year. Without fail. It's nailed on. Simples.
Have the glory day's gone? I think the more relevant part of the question is whether the entertainment has gone, not just at Everton, but throughout the league.
My early years at Goodison were spent in the Boys Pen and my question to myself now is whether the game was really more entertaining, or whether it just seemed that way because it was all new and exciting to me as a young boy.
When I reflect on that, I think the football really was more exciting. There always seemed to be a few times in any game where there were one-on-one breakaways where a striker had a chance to pit his wits directly against the keeper, and that got us up on our feet (oh, sorry, we were already on our feet, no seats back then!!).
I think today's game is a lot more defensive, so there are less opportunities for teams to score goals, for the strikers to get those clean through on goal opportunities.
With that in mind, does gung ho attacking style football work these days? Blackpool were entertaining last year, but finally got relegated. Are we boring because we have a boring manager, or is it part of the modern more defensive game? I don't want to judge that... I'm neither pro nor anti Moyes... I'll leave that up to you.
My early years at Goodison were spent in the Boys Pen and my question to myself now is whether the game was really more entertaining, or whether it just seemed that way because it was all new and exciting to me as a young boy.
When I reflect on that, I think the football really was more exciting. There always seemed to be a few times in any game where there were one-on-one breakaways where a striker had a chance to pit his wits directly against the keeper, and that got us up on our feet (oh, sorry, we were already on our feet, no seats back then!!).
I think today's game is a lot more defensive, so there are less opportunities for teams to score goals, for the strikers to get those clean through on goal opportunities.
With that in mind, does gung ho attacking style football work these days? Blackpool were entertaining last year, but finally got relegated. Are we boring because we have a boring manager, or is it part of the modern more defensive game? I don't want to judge that... I'm neither pro nor anti Moyes... I'll leave that up to you.
I somehow suspect that Royston is in for more practice tackling than he is for practice shooting! Moyesey will sort him out.
I remember:
Getting beat by the shite at Old Trafford and crying like a girl when Bally disappeared shortkly afterwards. forever.
Listening to the gobshites fall about laughing as they ridiculed Wright, Daracott, McLaughlin who all put through their own goal at Anfield... They battered us time and time again.
Watching Lee turn Bingham's team into a what non-Evertonians would describe as a "load of Robots".
Feeling physically sick every time Gordon Lee dragged magic Duncan off and replaced him by sending Mick 'crash bang wallop' Lyons up top.
Seeing Mick 'CBW' Lyons turn around and tell his team mates to calm down ? just after joining the "I scored an Oggie at Anfield" club... with a FORTY-yard lob.
Reading the leaflets screaming 30,000 stay-away fans can't be wrong.
Witnessing the total eclipse of the sky as thousands of Cushions rained down from the disgusted Goodison faithful.
Reading about Howard Kendal's children getting a dogs life at school.
Listening to the deafening boos as Gordon Lee`s team took the walk of shame after Ipswich had humiliated them.
Seeing Rush score 4 at Goodison.
Knowing that every time the Shite disappeared down Scottie Rd with a trophy, it would only be a matter of time before they would reappear with another fucken one.
Richard
The playing field was an awful lot more even in those days, there were no Sheiks or Oligarchs. Yes, we have had our days in the sun... but, since Alan Ball walked out of Goodison 40 years ago, you can count on one hand the number of good seasons we have had. They were amongst the high points of my life.
Bad times are what make good times so special and if we lift the cup this season, it will feel every bit as special as anything your arl fella experienced.
My cap is doffed to your generation, it was so much easier to follow in the days when there was ALWAYS a chance. We knew that no matter how shite we were, a few good signings (which we could always afford) could change everything. We didn't have to contend with six super-rich teams snapping up some of the best players on the planet.
Next time your arl fella asks you why you put up with it, tell him you do it for the same reasons he did.
I`d love to think you`ll be taking him into town in May for the celebration.
Getting beat by the shite at Old Trafford and crying like a girl when Bally disappeared shortkly afterwards. forever.
Listening to the gobshites fall about laughing as they ridiculed Wright, Daracott, McLaughlin who all put through their own goal at Anfield... They battered us time and time again.
Watching Lee turn Bingham's team into a what non-Evertonians would describe as a "load of Robots".
Feeling physically sick every time Gordon Lee dragged magic Duncan off and replaced him by sending Mick 'crash bang wallop' Lyons up top.
Seeing Mick 'CBW' Lyons turn around and tell his team mates to calm down ? just after joining the "I scored an Oggie at Anfield" club... with a FORTY-yard lob.
Reading the leaflets screaming 30,000 stay-away fans can't be wrong.
Witnessing the total eclipse of the sky as thousands of Cushions rained down from the disgusted Goodison faithful.
Reading about Howard Kendal's children getting a dogs life at school.
Listening to the deafening boos as Gordon Lee`s team took the walk of shame after Ipswich had humiliated them.
Seeing Rush score 4 at Goodison.
Knowing that every time the Shite disappeared down Scottie Rd with a trophy, it would only be a matter of time before they would reappear with another fucken one.
Richard
The playing field was an awful lot more even in those days, there were no Sheiks or Oligarchs. Yes, we have had our days in the sun... but, since Alan Ball walked out of Goodison 40 years ago, you can count on one hand the number of good seasons we have had. They were amongst the high points of my life.
Bad times are what make good times so special and if we lift the cup this season, it will feel every bit as special as anything your arl fella experienced.
My cap is doffed to your generation, it was so much easier to follow in the days when there was ALWAYS a chance. We knew that no matter how shite we were, a few good signings (which we could always afford) could change everything. We didn't have to contend with six super-rich teams snapping up some of the best players on the planet.
Next time your arl fella asks you why you put up with it, tell him you do it for the same reasons he did.
I`d love to think you`ll be taking him into town in May for the celebration.
I'm with Gordon Brittas ... I have a dream and I won't give it up
Adding to the secondary theme - Ed (229): remember Gillian Hills (The Owl Service)?
Adding to the secondary theme - Ed (229): remember Gillian Hills (The Owl Service)?
Richard, I have followed Everton from 1962 to the present day. My own Dad watched Dixie Dean's 60th goal from the Boys Pen. His Dad watched Everton, from when he was a boy until the day he died, from the same spot in the Park End.
Your Dad isn't just pining for lost Everton glory but for his lost youth. He has also forgotten how bad things were for most of the Seventies. Football was different, however, because we were all exposed only to the team we watched every week. There was little football on TV other than Match of the Day and a few highlights. Everything now is trophies. Instead, try to see the drama, the storyline, in each game.
As far as the future is concerned, the fact is that Arsenal fans, Spurs fans, Manchester City fans and yes, Man Utd fans have known the depth of despair and the certain knowledge they will never be great again. The wheel of fortune turned for them and it will turn for us.
I start every season optimistic and every May I'm optimistic about August. It is the only way to be. This year. we're going to win the FA Cup. Invite your dad.
Your Dad isn't just pining for lost Everton glory but for his lost youth. He has also forgotten how bad things were for most of the Seventies. Football was different, however, because we were all exposed only to the team we watched every week. There was little football on TV other than Match of the Day and a few highlights. Everything now is trophies. Instead, try to see the drama, the storyline, in each game.
As far as the future is concerned, the fact is that Arsenal fans, Spurs fans, Manchester City fans and yes, Man Utd fans have known the depth of despair and the certain knowledge they will never be great again. The wheel of fortune turned for them and it will turn for us.
I start every season optimistic and every May I'm optimistic about August. It is the only way to be. This year. we're going to win the FA Cup. Invite your dad.
Whilst the supporters hero worship Moyes then it is unlikely we will ever see any glory days again. Witness the second half yesterday.... it was embarassing on our own pitch.
I can assure Richard Dodd that the football played under previous managers was better than what we prsently endure under the Ginger Bingham.
I can assure Richard Dodd that the football played under previous managers was better than what we prsently endure under the Ginger Bingham.
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067 Posted 03/03/2012 at 14:11:12
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I am not a believer that change necessarily means better. I guess some people will say Liverpool One makes Liverpool city centre look "better", The Pier Head is looking "better".
I live in a nice 3 bedroomed house with a garden a far throw from my early days on Scotland Road. But is life therefore better. it may be cleaner and look more attractive.
So with interest I watched ITV 4 or something this morning. Everton V Spurs February 1983 Cup game. Spurs had won the Cup previous 2 years, unbeaten in 18 cup games. Goodison looked pretty much the same in some ways, fences then, a bit tatty, the pitch was cutting up, terrible short shorts, sad looking haircuts but the football seemed more passionate, pacey, exciting, direct, hard tackles but players getting up and shaking hands - Sheedy, King, Heath, Sharp ? there seemed to be more excitement about the game; we won 2-0. Although many, maybe most, will argue that, since Sky and whatever, grounds are better:yes ? pitches are better; yes ? kits look better; yes ? individual skills on the ball better... maybe ? but excitement, passion, flowing, end-to-end stuff, and better football now? ? I'm not sure.
I still go every week and love the routine of meeting before and after the game, talking football but for me the modern game for all its seemingly benefits has lost something.