Season 2011-12
The Mail Bag
Tim Howard
51 Comments: I was just wondering what fellow blues thought about Tim Howard? I know Moyes has said in the past he views him as one of the best keepers in the Premier League but I have an opposite opinion on that view.
Yesterday again he was at fault for a goal that really should;ve been stopped ? same at Wigan and Bolton at home. Each time a cross comes in or a shot from just outside the area, I cringe and think it's going to go in. His diving technique is strange to say the least and I wonder... Do the defenders feel confident enough with him between the sticks?
I would seriously consider looking at other goalkeepers because I'm beginning to think he is a liability. If only we had kept John Ruddy or went for Joe Hart when we were linked. COYB!!
Stephen Leary, Posted 04/03/2012 at 21:55:09
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I've never been his biggest fan. Tim has put in some excellent displays but too many clangers for my liking. In fairness, he is just ok. Probably the best we could afford. Unless we get lucky with some young kid.
If Blackburn go down I would be more than happy to have Paul Robinson. I know he makes mistakes too but I think he is a better all round keeper than our Tim.
That John Ruddy fellow looks a bit of alright, should try sign him
Lee, Robinson is too similar to Howard. Good shot stopper, prone to howlers, doesn't command the box.
Howard is okay at the moment; if we had millions to spend on the squad he might not be. So, he'll have to do.
Howard is okay at the moment; if we had millions to spend on the squad he might not be. So, he'll have to do.
No where near the top keepers in the league.
Vorm
Hart
Frediel, Given, Reina etc are all far more consistent. Howard is good in a penalty shoot out but thats about it.
Vorm
Hart
Frediel, Given, Reina etc are all far more consistent. Howard is good in a penalty shoot out but thats about it.
Paul Robinson is a first rate keeper and better than Howard in my book. you could count his howlers on one hand so I'm not sure what Andy is referring to.
James Stewart why did Paul Robinson move from Tottenham to Blackburn and lose his position as England's no 1?
A- It was due to a number of howlers and inconsistency.
A- It was due to a number of howlers and inconsistency.
Sorry Andy but I think we would be better off with Robinson than Tim. You are right though........we haven't got enough money to replace him. Other areas need strengthening first.
My opinion is that Howard is one of the best and doesn't make any more ''mistakes'' than all the other so-called top keepers in the world. End of story.
He's no Nigel Martyn.
Lee and James, are you guys for real? Paul Robinson? He's so far over the hill he can't even find the hill anymore! Did you see that pathetic gift he dished out last week?
I consider Howard one of the five best shot-stoppers in the world, and that's the most important thing you pay a keeper for. He makes saves that nobody in the Prem besides Joe Hart can make, and he makes them in crucial situations. And until that spinner a couple of weeks ago, he'd never had a real howler go through him. His once-suspect positioning has improved significantly, as has his distribution. His most obvious weakness is in the air -- for a guy of his size and athleticism, he just doesn't dominate crosses the way he should, and catches way too low.
But I wouldn't trade him for any of the keepers mentioned except Hart. Vorm does look outstanding, but I haven't seen enough of him under pressure to decide on him yet.
I consider Howard one of the five best shot-stoppers in the world, and that's the most important thing you pay a keeper for. He makes saves that nobody in the Prem besides Joe Hart can make, and he makes them in crucial situations. And until that spinner a couple of weeks ago, he'd never had a real howler go through him. His once-suspect positioning has improved significantly, as has his distribution. His most obvious weakness is in the air -- for a guy of his size and athleticism, he just doesn't dominate crosses the way he should, and catches way too low.
But I wouldn't trade him for any of the keepers mentioned except Hart. Vorm does look outstanding, but I haven't seen enough of him under pressure to decide on him yet.
I rate Howard highly. I rate him top 4 in the PL.
He had that one spell where he lost his england & spurs place your right Ian. He was world class for Leeds though and is performing incredibly for Blackburn again. He is one of those underrated players though and I have no doubt a big club will make a move for him again at some point. Very commanding Keeper. Howard is not and costs points every season. Ashame as I like Howard he is a model pro. Just not a very good keeper though.
Top 4 in the EPL and Top 5 in the world!?
Guys what have you been smoking!?
Since when has Howard been a great shop stopper!? he is beaten more times from distance than most I can think of!
Guys what have you been smoking!?
Since when has Howard been a great shop stopper!? he is beaten more times from distance than most I can think of!
Howard is a liability from corners, free kicks and any shots outside the box. Great reaction goal stopper but has no idea once the ball is flighted into the box.
Give Mucha a run. But as we well know, Moyes plays his fuckin favourites irrespective of their performance. Just ask Timmy, Leon, Hibbert, Neville, et al.
Give Mucha a run. But as we well know, Moyes plays his fuckin favourites irrespective of their performance. Just ask Timmy, Leon, Hibbert, Neville, et al.
I'm glad my article has caused a good debate. I do feel he costs us in games and I find his diving technique bizarre at times. I have been saying this now for a while to my mates. I think we should be looking to replace him, and I think a great and cheap option (if they go down, that is) would be that lad Al Habsi at Wigan; he's been fantastic for them and they would be cut adrift at the bottom if it weren't for him.
There's more than one Tim Howard and you never know which one will turn up.
A bit like the rest of our team really.
A bit like the rest of our team really.
Mike Gaynes - Come on mate. I know it's all opinions but bloody hell. What about Tims howler at Blackburn last season? What about the amount of times he has been beaten from distance? Every keeper makes mistakes, obviously. But to say Howard is one of the 5 best shot stoppers in the world is pushing it to say the least. I mean, have you forgotten about the 2009 Cup Final? He is quite average.......not great, not bad. I've always been a fan of Robinson, he had a crisis of confidence after that goal against Croatia. Which wasn't even his fault. Overall,i would have Robinson over Howard 8 days a week and twice on sunday. But like I said, it's all opinions.
I think Tims strength is in one on ones. He is average at shot stopping and weak on crosses. I would rate him around mid table in the premierships list of goalies.
I certainly recall him making more howlers than wondersaves.
For me the following are above him
Hart
Vorm
Reina
Cech
Given
Friedel
Scjezeny
Al habsi
Robinson
He's similar to the likes of begovic, jaskelldinen, foster etc
I certainly recall him making more howlers than wondersaves.
For me the following are above him
Hart
Vorm
Reina
Cech
Given
Friedel
Scjezeny
Al habsi
Robinson
He's similar to the likes of begovic, jaskelldinen, foster etc
One of the best I've seen at Goodison is Hennesy from Wolves - with them in danger of going down perhaps we should consider buying him -he's big and he's Welsh - just like some other big Welsh fella we had between the sticks and he became a legend.
Not seen Mucha much!
Not seen Mucha much!
Mike 388
What an overused term - shotstopper
Name me one gk in the premier league that doesn't have this bare minimum skill.
What sets decent gk apart from excellent is how they command the back 4 and their area. Howard is simply not commanding enough and is suspect .
His kicking , aerial ability are very good however his positioning , handling let him down also. I believed him at one stage a few years ago to be on par with the top 3 in the league but that cannot he substantiated due to his costly errors last few years
What an overused term - shotstopper
Name me one gk in the premier league that doesn't have this bare minimum skill.
What sets decent gk apart from excellent is how they command the back 4 and their area. Howard is simply not commanding enough and is suspect .
His kicking , aerial ability are very good however his positioning , handling let him down also. I believed him at one stage a few years ago to be on par with the top 3 in the league but that cannot he substantiated due to his costly errors last few years
If he manages to unshackle himself from the line, he will be an even better keeper.
Can't really blame him too much for Saturday, packed box, ball whipped in quickly. he was moving towards the ball but the contact by Zamora moved it away from him and he wasn't going to do anything else but try and flap it after the header
Can't really blame him too much for Saturday, packed box, ball whipped in quickly. he was moving towards the ball but the contact by Zamora moved it away from him and he wasn't going to do anything else but try and flap it after the header
With you on that one Phil. Other than shot stopping and dealing with crosses what else does a goalie do?
" I consider Howard one of the top 5 best shot - stoppers in the world "
I don't understand how you can make a statement like that Mike, unless that is of course, you have watched all the goalkeepers in the world consistantly.
I don't understand how you can make a statement like that Mike, unless that is of course, you have watched all the goalkeepers in the world consistantly.
Average at best.
Doesn't command his area.
Teams have well sussed him out for corners etc.
Liability.
Doesn't command his area.
Teams have well sussed him out for corners etc.
Liability.
Sam, I'd put Schwarzer on that list too. Howard is an ok keeper, that's all.
He's not brave enough to be a truly top class goalie.
That said I only really rate Given and Hart in that area anyway.
I think we could do a lot better.
That said I only really rate Given and Hart in that area anyway.
I think we could do a lot better.
I dont think hes amongst the best in the league as, like every one says he makes too many mistakes.
But at the same time, if you are going to critique him by figuring out how many points he has cost us then I think its only fair you balance that out by how many points he has saved / gained for us.
But at the same time, if you are going to critique him by figuring out how many points he has cost us then I think its only fair you balance that out by how many points he has saved / gained for us.
In terms of goals conceded he's about 6th in the table this season and didn't he have that purple patch where he had 17 clean sheets one season and 14 the next.
He does produce some howlers though - and I hate his constant punching the ball to just outside the area.
Problem is, us ald arses were treated to the best goalkeeper in the world during the 1980s with big Nev and everyone is shit compared to him... even Nigel Martin who in reality wasn't too bad.
I can remember some really crap Everton goalies... George Wood, Jim Arnold, Bobby Mimms and the toothless Dai Davies (who offered me out after the game in 1980 when I told him he was shit as I was stood behind in the Park End)
I'd put Tim in the 'okay - but could do better' category
He does produce some howlers though - and I hate his constant punching the ball to just outside the area.
Problem is, us ald arses were treated to the best goalkeeper in the world during the 1980s with big Nev and everyone is shit compared to him... even Nigel Martin who in reality wasn't too bad.
I can remember some really crap Everton goalies... George Wood, Jim Arnold, Bobby Mimms and the toothless Dai Davies (who offered me out after the game in 1980 when I told him he was shit as I was stood behind in the Park End)
I'd put Tim in the 'okay - but could do better' category
He is class and I am happy with him; every keeper makes mistakes every now and then but, more often than not, he saves us when called upon. He is easily in the same bracket as:
Given
Friedel
Scjezeny
Al Habsi
Robinson
Given
Friedel
Scjezeny
Al Habsi
Robinson
His refusal to have men on the posts from corners and free kicks winds me up, he has stated he does not like it as they get in his way, well who was in your way for that near post goal on Saturday?
keepers get so much protection, so why was he not barging past everyone to command that cross?
Kendall use to swear by it and having men on your post at corners must save at least five goals per season.
keepers get so much protection, so why was he not barging past everyone to command that cross?
Kendall use to swear by it and having men on your post at corners must save at least five goals per season.
If he was one of the top 5 goalkeepers in the world he would still be at Man United. As per the posters above, he is really lacking on his ability to deal with crosses and long shots which doesn't seem to improve.
Kevin Sparke is right about big Nev, it's not fair to compare our goalkeepers to him because he was the finest goalkeeper this club, possibly the footballing world has ever seen
I think it's the same with a lot of players at Everton who just go through the motions knowing however bad they are they wont get dropped.
Kevin Sparke is right about big Nev, it's not fair to compare our goalkeepers to him because he was the finest goalkeeper this club, possibly the footballing world has ever seen
I think it's the same with a lot of players at Everton who just go through the motions knowing however bad they are they wont get dropped.
He's no better or worse than most keepers out there. He's messed up a bit and has his flaws but show me a keeper who doesn't. He's also saved our bacon countless times and is a decent enough keeper.
It's Funny Howard gets the blame for the goal against QPR when there was 2 defenders stood in front of Zamora who should have cleared the lines and not let Zamora get his head on it. The keeper and defenders are equally responsible for defending set pieces so Howard cannot be blamed for them not doing their job. If you look at the replay Zamora pushes both defenders forward to make space so should the goal have stood?
Apart from the Wigan, Bolton and Blackburn last year there hasn't been that many blunders. I seem to recall many blunders made by Cech, Reina, De Gea, Schezny but all listed above as top goalies in the world. Many times at Goodison and away I hear the "USA USA USA" chant so he must be doing something right.
Apart from the Wigan, Bolton and Blackburn last year there hasn't been that many blunders. I seem to recall many blunders made by Cech, Reina, De Gea, Schezny but all listed above as top goalies in the world. Many times at Goodison and away I hear the "USA USA USA" chant so he must be doing something right.
He's the top scoring keeper in the league, give him a break...
He's a liability, but on the plus side, he chips in with the odd goal...
James are you kidding me... and Sam too... Paul Robinson?!!! Count his howlers on one hand? Do you mean this season or over his career?
I love the way people assume goalies at the lower placed teams are good, as they make more saves... For Robinson's last howler, see two games ago against Man City. There is not a goalie in the world that does not make stupid mistakes, but Howard makes some fantastic saves to counter them, whilst Robinson makes far too many.
Paul Robinson is not a better keeper and Al Habsi is not a better keeper. With confidence, a person could claim Krul, Hart, Vorm and Given have been been better than Howard this season. Reina has made some errors (Aguero recently for instance) whilst Cech has been error prone since his head injury.
Sczczesny looks a better keep than Arsenal have had for a very long time, but then that is hardly difficult. He has been brilliant and personally to blame for several goals.
Once more this whole thread confirms my belief that a lot of our fans (and fans in general) do not watch many other teams play. Paul Robinson... seriously... someone will claim we should sign Almunia next.
I love the way people assume goalies at the lower placed teams are good, as they make more saves... For Robinson's last howler, see two games ago against Man City. There is not a goalie in the world that does not make stupid mistakes, but Howard makes some fantastic saves to counter them, whilst Robinson makes far too many.
Paul Robinson is not a better keeper and Al Habsi is not a better keeper. With confidence, a person could claim Krul, Hart, Vorm and Given have been been better than Howard this season. Reina has made some errors (Aguero recently for instance) whilst Cech has been error prone since his head injury.
Sczczesny looks a better keep than Arsenal have had for a very long time, but then that is hardly difficult. He has been brilliant and personally to blame for several goals.
Once more this whole thread confirms my belief that a lot of our fans (and fans in general) do not watch many other teams play. Paul Robinson... seriously... someone will claim we should sign Almunia next.
That free-kick on Saturday, have you seen a better quality ball in to our or any other penalty area this season, cos I haven't.
Not particularly wanting to defend Howard but I think most of the names reeled off above would have struggled not to concede from that. Absolute quality ball in.
Not particularly wanting to defend Howard but I think most of the names reeled off above would have struggled not to concede from that. Absolute quality ball in.
Fergie let him go for that one very reason: he is prone to a howler.
United let him go as despite his impressive athleticism it was noted his concentration wasn't the best. When you play for Man Utd you have to concentrate as for most matches you won't have that much to do. Unfortunately for Howard, when he was called into action, it was often sub-standard at best.
He's a better player now though coming to Everton.
Ultimately he's a good keeper and, given the fact we urgently need to spend in other areas of the pitch, I think we should be happy we have a solid B+ keeper who, to be fair, is doing a good job.
United let him go as despite his impressive athleticism it was noted his concentration wasn't the best. When you play for Man Utd you have to concentrate as for most matches you won't have that much to do. Unfortunately for Howard, when he was called into action, it was often sub-standard at best.
He's a better player now though coming to Everton.
Ultimately he's a good keeper and, given the fact we urgently need to spend in other areas of the pitch, I think we should be happy we have a solid B+ keeper who, to be fair, is doing a good job.
Far too hesitant when last defender & attacker are bearing down on goal. I have lost count of the number of times he should have raced off his line, and wellied it into row Z.
Poor at collecting crosses and corners.
6/10.
Poor at collecting crosses and corners.
6/10.
Best goalie in Prem at the minute bar none isTim Krul for Newcastle, Howard's a great shot stopper but for me is very indecisive and instead of filing his defence with confidence creates panic. I think it shows he hasn't been bred watching football and doesn't fully understand his role. I'm not saying he's a bad goalie but I woudn't say he's a natural like big Nev!!!
Daniel A Johnson,
Hear hear!
There are a few positions we could do with improving before we replace Howard. There are only 3 teams with better keepers for my money ? Chelsea, Liverpool and City. The rest (including De Gea) are much of a muchness.
You only need to look at our goal difference to see where our problems lie. There are only 3 teams who have conceded less than us. In terms of goals scored, we are joint 2nd bottom with Stoke (Wigan being bottom).
That says everything. We need some wingers and another striker (at least) before we talk about replacing our keeper.
Hear hear!
There are a few positions we could do with improving before we replace Howard. There are only 3 teams with better keepers for my money ? Chelsea, Liverpool and City. The rest (including De Gea) are much of a muchness.
You only need to look at our goal difference to see where our problems lie. There are only 3 teams who have conceded less than us. In terms of goals scored, we are joint 2nd bottom with Stoke (Wigan being bottom).
That says everything. We need some wingers and another striker (at least) before we talk about replacing our keeper.
I like Howard actually, but how can you defend him for that on Saturday, what would Southall have done with that? I will tell you, barged through everyone and caught it.
There are too many keepers around today who are like tarts in their own six yard box, hence Man Utd putting De Gea on weight gain, only gawd knows what they would have done in the days of Mick Harford and Andy Gray.
There are too many keepers around today who are like tarts in their own six yard box, hence Man Utd putting De Gea on weight gain, only gawd knows what they would have done in the days of Mick Harford and Andy Gray.
For me, Howard might not be as good as Hart, Reina or Cech, but he is in 'the best of the rest' group, along with the likes of Szczesny, Krul, Friedel etc. Names like Vorm & Ruddy ? they might be having decent seasons so far, but the jury is still out on them. Howard has had very decent seasons himself every year he's been at Everton and continues to do so.
I agree with Danny # 460 and place Tim at about the same position in the goalkeeping league as our position in the table. He is a good pro goalkeeper but not a great!! Most of the bottom clubs have decent goalkeepers and that is shown up by the amount of saves each has to make each time they play.
Luckily our defence is definitely one of the league's best and so Tim has a lot of protection compared to other sides. Our defence has been heroic so many times and carried the team on many occasions, that is why it is defenders who win most plaudits each month and at seasons end, eg, Distin, Jags and Baines... closely followed by Hibbo and Heitinga in his present form.
We definitely lack creativity in the midfield and also at least one top winger who can cross the ball accurately. if we could get a younger version of Paul Scholes and a winger like Valencia or Young then we would be virtually complete... in fact I would take a good look at the better players at Wigan, Wolves, Bolton and Blackburn where we might just get a bargain buy.
Howard will do for me with our present strength in defence... it's a pity we did not hang on to Ruddy who I am sure would have gained a first team place sooner rather than later.
Luckily our defence is definitely one of the league's best and so Tim has a lot of protection compared to other sides. Our defence has been heroic so many times and carried the team on many occasions, that is why it is defenders who win most plaudits each month and at seasons end, eg, Distin, Jags and Baines... closely followed by Hibbo and Heitinga in his present form.
We definitely lack creativity in the midfield and also at least one top winger who can cross the ball accurately. if we could get a younger version of Paul Scholes and a winger like Valencia or Young then we would be virtually complete... in fact I would take a good look at the better players at Wigan, Wolves, Bolton and Blackburn where we might just get a bargain buy.
Howard will do for me with our present strength in defence... it's a pity we did not hang on to Ruddy who I am sure would have gained a first team place sooner rather than later.
Considering that we have not got a pot to piss in, so buying anybody is out, what's the point of debating it?
Besides, the manager rates him highly.
Besides, the manager rates him highly.
"If he manages to unshackle himself from the line, he will be an even better keeper."
Of late he seems to have got into the habit of constantly standing behind his line. Can't say it's something I've noticed other keepers do. Maybe it's some innovative new Chris Woods coaching technique.
He's certainly capable of making some cracking reaction saves, and has kept us in a number of games over the years, but he's always had a cock up in him (no innuendo intended) and never been particularly commanding when having to deal with corners and crosses.
However, his most annoying weakness has always been his susceptibility to shots from distance. In this situation he's about as alert and mobile as fucking Morph now that Tony Hart has cashed in his crayolas. He basically becomes a wide-eyed, badly posed, bendy armed, plasticine slaphead. He often seems to be caught totally unawares, like he's not expecting anyone to ever have the audacity to have a dig from outside the area.
But, apart from that.... he's alright (and not Richard Wright, thank fuck).
Of late he seems to have got into the habit of constantly standing behind his line. Can't say it's something I've noticed other keepers do. Maybe it's some innovative new Chris Woods coaching technique.
He's certainly capable of making some cracking reaction saves, and has kept us in a number of games over the years, but he's always had a cock up in him (no innuendo intended) and never been particularly commanding when having to deal with corners and crosses.
However, his most annoying weakness has always been his susceptibility to shots from distance. In this situation he's about as alert and mobile as fucking Morph now that Tony Hart has cashed in his crayolas. He basically becomes a wide-eyed, badly posed, bendy armed, plasticine slaphead. He often seems to be caught totally unawares, like he's not expecting anyone to ever have the audacity to have a dig from outside the area.
But, apart from that.... he's alright (and not Richard Wright, thank fuck).
On this season's form, we should never have let Ruddy go.
"Of late he seems to have got into the habit of constantly standing behind his line"
Case in point being when Buzsaky (or whatever his name is) hit the post from six yards out on Saturday, Howard was standing behind the goal line when the ball hit the post.
Case in point being when Buzsaky (or whatever his name is) hit the post from six yards out on Saturday, Howard was standing behind the goal line when the ball hit the post.
Please explain how that would actually work, then, Trevor (#516).
He's going to have a good 2011-12 season in the Prem, so we should not let him go to Championship side Norwich in July 2010?
He's going to have a good 2011-12 season in the Prem, so we should not let him go to Championship side Norwich in July 2010?
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366 Posted 04/03/2012 at 22:57:15
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