Season 2011-12
The Mail Bag
Rarebit of Welsh Relief
143 Comments: Not a title I believe in but couldn?t resist the pun.
Someone posted in the last week that people think the manager is crap, think the players are crap, and then work them selves up into a lather when we don?t play like Barcelona. Some logic!
Today we had our team full of the cloggers, we had Fellaini up front for 30 minutes and were playing by some accounts against the God-sent Brendan Rodgers and his own amazing Welsh Barca.
?If Swansea say beat us by 4 or more, would Moyes resign? If they beat us 10, would Davey resign? What sort of humiliation will make this guy step down?? posted Ian Briggs.
Well guess what happened? We out-passed, out-thought, out-fort, out-performed them in every way.
Moyes out with 2 defeats in 13 matches? Not before a win in midweek and we overhaul Liverpool!
Come on you Blues!
Nick Entwistle, Posted 24/03/2012 at 17:06:05
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I do still think that Brendan Rogers is a good manager and were Moyes to move on then he would possibly be top of our list.
But today goes to show
1) Moyes's teams can play attractive football;
2) Neville can do a job in midfield sometimes;
3) Rogers's Swansea aren't the bees knees, we've done a comfortable double over them;
4) Football is unpredictable... so no-one really has the right to say they know what's best.
But today goes to show
1) Moyes's teams can play attractive football;
2) Neville can do a job in midfield sometimes;
3) Rogers's Swansea aren't the bees knees, we've done a comfortable double over them;
4) Football is unpredictable... so no-one really has the right to say they know what's best.
You fail to mention the Wigan result at Liverpool! A poor team but playing with a positive attitude.
"He hides when we win. He hides when we wiiiiin. Oh Tony Marsh, he hides when we win"
Understandably beating a promoted club costing the equivalent of fellaini's left leg justifies Moyes and his methods to his camp followers - crowing was to be expected and of course like rats up a drainpipe - whoosh - here they come.
But more importantly it demonstrates the difference between shithouse cowardice as per the recent derby, and umpteen others, against belief and playing with vigour.
As others have said about Moyes.
Why doesn't it happen more often? and why not when it matters?
He has potentially 3 games to rid himself of this stigma, but he won't.
But more importantly it demonstrates the difference between shithouse cowardice as per the recent derby, and umpteen others, against belief and playing with vigour.
As others have said about Moyes.
Why doesn't it happen more often? and why not when it matters?
He has potentially 3 games to rid himself of this stigma, but he won't.
We're just enjoying the win Barry.
You should try it.
You should try it.
This is a relatively meaningless result when compared with the couple that people have been complaining about. Not everyone gets on Moyes's back every time we lose, I understand that the team is going to lose some games.
Let's see if he can come up with a result on Tuesday before gloating about a win that nobody will remember come the end of this week. That's when it really matters, and that is when we will see if he has the balls to send a positive team out.
Let's see if he can come up with a result on Tuesday before gloating about a win that nobody will remember come the end of this week. That's when it really matters, and that is when we will see if he has the balls to send a positive team out.
Ha. Barry. Why look at the good when you can concentrate on the bad?!
Swansea = cheap relegation team. Let's ignore the fact they have one of the best home records in the Premier League, including beating City last time out.
Cheer up.
Swansea = cheap relegation team. Let's ignore the fact they have one of the best home records in the Premier League, including beating City last time out.
Cheer up.
Jamie
No you're not, you're crowing.
I'm chuffed to bits we won plus the manner in which we did ? the questions I pose remain.
No you're not, you're crowing.
I'm chuffed to bits we won plus the manner in which we did ? the questions I pose remain.
Barry Rathbone, you're wrong about the cost of Swansea's team. Nobody on Toffeeweb seems interested in the facts and figures but here they are anyway: since 2006, Everton have spent an average of 1.8million per year. Since 2006, Swansea have spent an average of 1.1million per year
http://www.transferleague.co.uk/league-tables/2006-2011.html
Seems a lot of people have an utterly false perception of how much money is spent in football. As I posted in another thread, Everton are about the 15th highest spenders in the Premier League. Despite this, we regularly finish top 7.
Facts matter, it's just a shame nobody here seems to care!
http://www.transferleague.co.uk/league-tables/2006-2011.html
Seems a lot of people have an utterly false perception of how much money is spent in football. As I posted in another thread, Everton are about the 15th highest spenders in the Premier League. Despite this, we regularly finish top 7.
Facts matter, it's just a shame nobody here seems to care!
Barry Rathbone, you're wrong about the cost of Swansea's team. Nobody on Toffeeweb seems interested in the facts and figures but here they are anyway: since 2006, Everton have spent an average of 1.8million per year. Since 2006, Swansea have spent an average of 1.1million per year
http://www.transferleague.co.uk/league-tables/2006-2011.html
Seems a lot of people have an utterly false perception of how much money is spent in football. As I posted in another thread, Everton are about the 15th highest spenders in the Premier League. Despite this, we regularly finish top 7.
Facts matter, it's just a shame nobody here seems to care!
http://www.transferleague.co.uk/league-tables/2006-2011.html
Seems a lot of people have an utterly false perception of how much money is spent in football. As I posted in another thread, Everton are about the 15th highest spenders in the Premier League. Despite this, we regularly finish top 7.
Facts matter, it's just a shame nobody here seems to care!
Look how the MOB are distancing themselves from the result. On the other thread 'oh they had to come out playing when we scored'. Yeah right, Moyes fault when we lose someone else's fault when we win.
Why don't we do it when it counts? What like City Spurs and Chelsea?
Barry, funny thing is you have two teams competing... so you can't do it all the time. Sorry we won but thems the breaks.
Why don't we do it when it counts? What like City Spurs and Chelsea?
Barry, funny thing is you have two teams competing... so you can't do it all the time. Sorry we won but thems the breaks.
Behave Nick, we are 9th in the League and that was our first away win since 1st Jan against W.B.A.
Moyes deserved every ounce of stick he got after handing L'pool a 3-0 win, as their recent results tell you.
Great performance today, Moyes and the team deserve the plaudits they will get tomorrow, but don't go overboard.
Moyes deserved every ounce of stick he got after handing L'pool a 3-0 win, as their recent results tell you.
Great performance today, Moyes and the team deserve the plaudits they will get tomorrow, but don't go overboard.
Crowing: Make a sound expressing a feeling of happiness or triumph:
You're right, I am crowing.
Try it. It feels good Barry.
You're right, I am crowing.
Try it. It feels good Barry.
Nick, it's great winning at home to the likes of Chelsea and Spurs, but it's also shit to lose to the likes of Bolton and Stoke at home. It makes the great results meaningless. Like I said, come Tuesday night, win or lose, nobody will remember today.
I'm glad we won like I always am, but this is just pathetic crowing over 3 points that we would have expected to get. League wise, this is very close to being an end of season nothing game between two mid table sides. Come back on Tuesday!
I'm glad we won like I always am, but this is just pathetic crowing over 3 points that we would have expected to get. League wise, this is very close to being an end of season nothing game between two mid table sides. Come back on Tuesday!
Nick ? for me, the "when it counts" games this season have been against other than the rich ? we didn't, in general, do very well in them.
Overboard on what? This is what a lot of us could happily expect today, yet every name under the sun has been frown at Moyes this week with calls for him to be sacked... or 'fuck off' as most have put it, with Swansea and Rogers being cited as an example of how things should be done.
It's not the win that I'm overboard with, more my two fingers up at the bollocks on these pages all week and those who have delivered it.
Moyes out blah blah...
It's not the win that I'm overboard with, more my two fingers up at the bollocks on these pages all week and those who have delivered it.
Moyes out blah blah...
Nick
Nah, in the grand scheme of things you know that's not right. We live on 3 teams being worse than us so the derbies and cup games are where it matters.
Moyes exceeded his normal cowardice in the last derby and he's got potentially 3 games that matter.
He either proves the likes of me wrong, vindicating his derby decision, or the usual "bad ref" "unlucky" lament comes out with Moyes sulking until 8 games into next season.
"Cometh the hour" (guffaw)
Nah, in the grand scheme of things you know that's not right. We live on 3 teams being worse than us so the derbies and cup games are where it matters.
Moyes exceeded his normal cowardice in the last derby and he's got potentially 3 games that matter.
He either proves the likes of me wrong, vindicating his derby decision, or the usual "bad ref" "unlucky" lament comes out with Moyes sulking until 8 games into next season.
"Cometh the hour" (guffaw)
Sorry Barry, just wondering if you could respond to the point about money spent?
Our club - Everton FC, have made Moyes what he is today, not the other way around.
Can Moyes still vindicate his derby decision?
Paul Foster
Sorry mate, I wasn't ignoring you; if you are right, I stand corrected. I'm going on the oft-quoted £7million cost of the Swans.
My main point is you can't compare Swansea to Everton in any meaningful way.
Sorry mate, I wasn't ignoring you; if you are right, I stand corrected. I'm going on the oft-quoted £7million cost of the Swans.
My main point is you can't compare Swansea to Everton in any meaningful way.
Nick Entwistle, you could not imo sound more stupid.
If we can play 'football' (as we proved we can this afternoon) and if we can knuckle down and grind out results against the likes of City, Chelsea and Spurs, then it is entirely legitimate to ask 1) Why can we only do it in the second half of the season? and/or 2) Why can't we do it more often?
Yes we KNOW we can't do it ALL the time (what a great insight!) but to infer (as you are doing) that we can't or shouldn't be doing it more, is bollocks.
To crow in 'triumph' after a win against Swansea, as though all your opinions have been proved right, doesn't make anybody but you look like a big sof kid.
(as for Jamie Barlow singing his posts, I'm guessing he's about 8 and actually IS a big soft kid).
If we can play 'football' (as we proved we can this afternoon) and if we can knuckle down and grind out results against the likes of City, Chelsea and Spurs, then it is entirely legitimate to ask 1) Why can we only do it in the second half of the season? and/or 2) Why can't we do it more often?
Yes we KNOW we can't do it ALL the time (what a great insight!) but to infer (as you are doing) that we can't or shouldn't be doing it more, is bollocks.
To crow in 'triumph' after a win against Swansea, as though all your opinions have been proved right, doesn't make anybody but you look like a big sof kid.
(as for Jamie Barlow singing his posts, I'm guessing he's about 8 and actually IS a big soft kid).
The reason we don't do it all the time is because we don't have the quality, if we did we'd win the league every season, we're obviously capable on our day of beating anyone (especially at home). Consistency comes with quality that we don't have. Liverpool and Chelsea with all their money can't even get it. You can't criticise the Moyesophiles (or whatever ridiculous nomenclature we're given) for coming out after a win. The moment we draw against anyone all the MOB are out in full force but that's alright they're allowed to say whatever they want whenever but the moment we win then we're like 'rats up a drain pipe'?
Bluekipper website is running a rumour that Drenthe has been "sacked"! Any insight anyone as to why he wasn't playing today? Injured? Rested?
Some rumours we have sacked Drenthe, anyone heard anything?
2 defeats in 13 Eugene.
...and to be a pedant Eugene, I imply, you infer.
Jesus Nick, you really sound like you've flipped!
You rant..
"Overboard on what? This is what a lot of us could happily expect today, yet every name under the sun has been frown at Moyes this week with calls for him to be sacked... or fuck off as most have put it"
Questions.
Do you think this result proves them all wrong?
Do you think anyone has changed their mind?
You quote '2 defeats in 13' like that's 'game set and match!', instead of thinking wonder how well we'd do with a manager who could get those kind of stats in BOTH halves of the season.
Seriously - get a grip.
You rant..
"Overboard on what? This is what a lot of us could happily expect today, yet every name under the sun has been frown at Moyes this week with calls for him to be sacked... or fuck off as most have put it"
Questions.
Do you think this result proves them all wrong?
Do you think anyone has changed their mind?
You quote '2 defeats in 13' like that's 'game set and match!', instead of thinking wonder how well we'd do with a manager who could get those kind of stats in BOTH halves of the season.
Seriously - get a grip.
Cute headline Nick.
Delighted with the team today. Gibson does make a difference. Otherwise there wasnt much different but for some we were able to get our game together, some good passing and even looked threatening in the second half.
Consistency is such an elusive quality, but Moyes has it more than most over the seasons, even if it isnt always pretty.
One thing. The matchday forum was bizzare at times today. Some curious reactions.
Delighted with the team today. Gibson does make a difference. Otherwise there wasnt much different but for some we were able to get our game together, some good passing and even looked threatening in the second half.
Consistency is such an elusive quality, but Moyes has it more than most over the seasons, even if it isnt always pretty.
One thing. The matchday forum was bizzare at times today. Some curious reactions.
I haven't seen anything to prove them right Eugene. I haven't ranted, unlike some.
Jamie Barlow - your comment about Tony Marsh is pathetic.
A good win, but lets not get carried away eh. Liverpool have lost 5 out of ther last 6, and you know who they won against don't ya!.
A good win, but lets not get carried away eh. Liverpool have lost 5 out of ther last 6, and you know who they won against don't ya!.
Jamie Barlow why don't you try going the match instead of making a twat of yourself on here? Great win today... so I suppose you've just swept the whole miserable season under the carpet then?
Sing your song at me after Tuesday's game because I cared as much about today's game as Moyes did about last week's Derby. Our season was gambled with last week and a win at Swansea doesn't make up for it one bit. They sing Kopites are Gobshites but sometimes I wonder.
Sing your song at me after Tuesday's game because I cared as much about today's game as Moyes did about last week's Derby. Our season was gambled with last week and a win at Swansea doesn't make up for it one bit. They sing Kopites are Gobshites but sometimes I wonder.
No Nick, of course you haven't ranted.
"Its not the win that I'm overboard with, more my two fingers up at the bollocks on these pages all week and those who have delivered it.
Moyes out blah blah..."
Tip: Instead of waving two fingers at your computer, try debating/answering specific posts/points.
"Its not the win that I'm overboard with, more my two fingers up at the bollocks on these pages all week and those who have delivered it.
Moyes out blah blah..."
Tip: Instead of waving two fingers at your computer, try debating/answering specific posts/points.
Put your dummy back in Marsh. Surely you must have expected some banter on here after your amazing prediction earlier? Great win today boys, can't wait for Tuesday!
No, wasn;t a rant. Anyway, ask away Eugene... vindicates the Liverpool line up? No way. Why can't we do it more often? Because then we'd be better than we are. Some can and are higher up the table, some can't and are lower down. Wish it could be more often but we're not helped in transfer budgets and players being sold off... but then you wouldn't want to debate/ answer those points about that will you.
I'm just enjoying the victory and the manner in which we won. Can't say I've been excited about watching footy 1st many times this season but tonight is nailed on.
I'll hold my hands up and say I may have misjudged Gibson, he does appear to bring stability to the midfield - releasing others to play. Hopefully Moyes has unearthed another gem.
We should go into the replay on a high now.
I'll hold my hands up and say I may have misjudged Gibson, he does appear to bring stability to the midfield - releasing others to play. Hopefully Moyes has unearthed another gem.
We should go into the replay on a high now.
It always cracks me up how easily pleased some of our fans are.
We bring a knife to a water pistol fight and the Moyes fans are falling over themselves.
Don't you know Moyes by now ? He always wins when it doesn't matter.
We bring a knife to a water pistol fight and the Moyes fans are falling over themselves.
Don't you know Moyes by now ? He always wins when it doesn't matter.
In my eyes only a redeeming victory over them in the cup semi's will make up for the derby capitulation.
The inference that Moyes is a bottler will also stand until we win a game that's high pressure I.e. Sunderland.
That said anybody calling for us to get beat just to see off a manager, as Tony and a few other have done, is daft.
The inference that Moyes is a bottler will also stand until we win a game that's high pressure I.e. Sunderland.
That said anybody calling for us to get beat just to see off a manager, as Tony and a few other have done, is daft.
Nice headline for the post Nick.
Excellent result today & a real bonus as Swansea away is no easy fixture.
The only downer for me is the shite losing at home to Wigan ! Yes.. I know it's piss yourself funny BUT they've lost 5 out of 6
and STILL managed too humiliate us the other night.
I mean FFS...What's that all about ? Against us they completely bossed the game & WE made them look good, when they are as Wigan proved today SHITE.
Excellent result today & a real bonus as Swansea away is no easy fixture.
The only downer for me is the shite losing at home to Wigan ! Yes.. I know it's piss yourself funny BUT they've lost 5 out of 6
and STILL managed too humiliate us the other night.
I mean FFS...What's that all about ? Against us they completely bossed the game & WE made them look good, when they are as Wigan proved today SHITE.
Nick you say..
"Why can't we do it more often? Because then we'd be better than we are"
Not going to pass any comment, I'll just let it sit there.
"Why can't we do it more often? Because then we'd be better than we are"
Not going to pass any comment, I'll just let it sit there.
Tommy - I ain't a Moyes fan or hater or whatever other label you'd like to use. I'm just an Evertonian who is delighted that we won 'today' and for once, in a somewhat bleak season so far (and crappy last 10 days), I'm going to thoroughly enjoy my weekend and wallow in the simple pleasure of an Everton win and a RS loss.
Lee Courtliff, I didn't make a prediction, I was taking the piss. I didn't expect much today but we won and I will take it but it doesn't make up for last week or this replay we now have. As Tommy Coleman says above Moyes: he always wins when it doesn't matter. Never truer words spoken...
gloating when we win as if it's some moral victory over supporters who expected us to loose.
I was one of them, I won't lie the most I expected us to do was grind out a result.
we didn't and now i am happy we won.
so for the gloaters. i hope you keep gloating as it benefits us all.
I was one of them, I won't lie the most I expected us to do was grind out a result.
we didn't and now i am happy we won.
so for the gloaters. i hope you keep gloating as it benefits us all.
Nothing wrong with a bit of crowing, but outfort?
Inexcusable.
Inexcusable.
I personally think we will beat WBA by the way. And Sunderland. #COYB
A good win.
Only saw the last 30 minutes and have the chance to watch the whole match later tonight.
What I saw was more like what I want to see from Everton. Playing good joined up football, resulting in goals, and surprise surprise, a win.
Quite simple really.
COYBs
Only saw the last 30 minutes and have the chance to watch the whole match later tonight.
What I saw was more like what I want to see from Everton. Playing good joined up football, resulting in goals, and surprise surprise, a win.
Quite simple really.
COYBs
Delighted we won today but let's be honest, we have had a shite season so far. If we can beat Sunderland, moyes has a chance to make amends for the derby debacle and give us a chance at salvaging our campaign.
Mark, when you compare it to Tuesday's game, and any game against Liverpool, then it does mean nothing. Let's face it, nobody really cared about today's game, it's all about Tuesday. That is when the pressure is on, and that is what Moyes will be judged on. Or am I wrong, will the non MOB still be gloating about today's win if we lose on tuesday?
No Dan, but we won't be calling for the manager's head either and will look forward to the weekend when we could possibly be above Liverpool and closing in on 6th.
Dan - I cared about today's result. I'd say you did too else why are you here now? Needle?
What did people realistically expect from a season when our manager hasnt been allowed to replace sold or ageing players for two years. A fit of activity in January and a cut price forward from a club in financial chaos has turned a dull season into something which at least has a few highspots and a decent cup run
Did anyone seriously think we would be top six? Moyes is making a decent fist of a piss poor situation. There isnt a manager around who does more with such limited resources. Id love us to be at the top table, but it aint going to happen soon.
Thats not accepting mediocrity. Its recognising football for the completely fucked up, top heavy, money brings success mess that it is.
Did anyone seriously think we would be top six? Moyes is making a decent fist of a piss poor situation. There isnt a manager around who does more with such limited resources. Id love us to be at the top table, but it aint going to happen soon.
Thats not accepting mediocrity. Its recognising football for the completely fucked up, top heavy, money brings success mess that it is.
'Mark, when you compare it to Tuesday's game, and any game against Liverpool, then it does mean nothing.'
It meant 3 points. Exactly the same as the the derby.
'Let's face it, nobody really cared about today's game'
If we had lost and I came on here and said 'oh we'll, shit happens' I'd have been mauled. Nobody cared? Bollocks! If we had lost today we'd be 13th. The difference between 9-13 is more than £3m. We are two points behind the shite. If we beat WBA and Newcastle beat them, which I think is a realistic prospect, we'll be above them in the table next week. I couldn't give a fuck about the derby result if we end up a above them in the league.
'it's all about Tuesday. That is when the pressure is on, and that is what Moyes will be judged on. Or am I wrong, will the non MOB still be gloating about today's win if we lose on tuesday?' I judge him at the end of May every season, based on what I think we were capable of in August against what we achieved. I hope we beat Sunderland and of course that matters. It doesn't mean this game meant any less. The Swansea game meant the same as the derby. 0, 1 or 3 points.
It meant 3 points. Exactly the same as the the derby.
'Let's face it, nobody really cared about today's game'
If we had lost and I came on here and said 'oh we'll, shit happens' I'd have been mauled. Nobody cared? Bollocks! If we had lost today we'd be 13th. The difference between 9-13 is more than £3m. We are two points behind the shite. If we beat WBA and Newcastle beat them, which I think is a realistic prospect, we'll be above them in the table next week. I couldn't give a fuck about the derby result if we end up a above them in the league.
'it's all about Tuesday. That is when the pressure is on, and that is what Moyes will be judged on. Or am I wrong, will the non MOB still be gloating about today's win if we lose on tuesday?' I judge him at the end of May every season, based on what I think we were capable of in August against what we achieved. I hope we beat Sunderland and of course that matters. It doesn't mean this game meant any less. The Swansea game meant the same as the derby. 0, 1 or 3 points.
Mike, today's game or result wasn't going to change my views on David Moyes, or change the fact that it is all about Tuesday. I'm glad we won, but today's result won't mean anything, win or lose on tuesday. The last few weeks, the pressure games have been Liverpool and Sunderland, and we didn't win any of them. Moyes is under pressure against Sunderland, and I hope for once he doesn't shy away.
I posted on another thread praising the team and the coach. I've just read this thread and am just astonished at the gloating of some Evertonians. Does this fine win make those who think a new coach would be a positive move suddenly wrong?
Believe it or not it is possible to enjoy and celebrate a victory whilst still believing it is time for a change. It seems to me that some take the view that critics of Moyes are somehow lesser Evertonians. All who take the time to post on this site want the best for our club.
Believe it or not it is possible to enjoy and celebrate a victory whilst still believing it is time for a change. It seems to me that some take the view that critics of Moyes are somehow lesser Evertonians. All who take the time to post on this site want the best for our club.
Nick -we'd be above them now if we hadn't thrown the derby
Seen Rumours Drenthe has been sacked by Everton FC and sent back to Madrid. (Bluekipper site).
Anyone heard anything?
Anyone heard anything?
The difference between 9th and 13th on march 24th is £0, Mark. We could have already been above the shite, but we all know why we ain't. You are right, 3 points is 3 points, but the pro Moyes brigade spout how good he is for getting certain 3 points against the money teams, whilst mentioning none of the 0 points we pick up against Bolton, Stoke and QPR when they ride into town.
Not necessarily Phil. 1) we didn't 'throw' the derby anymore than we threw the game today. Moyes rotated players. 2) maybe if Kenny had rested a few of his players in the derby they wouldn't all be knackered and might not have stopped playing in the last 20 mins against QPR, or might have showed up today. Football is unpredictable like that.
Couldn't watch the game today due to the inability of any known alehouse in Liverpool to show it, so after much traipsing, ended up watching 2nd half of the Reds. Some consolation.
Imagine that, they've already drawn 6 times at home, and now lost twice.
I'll watch the highlights later, but I know it won't tell me enough about the game.
I am staggered about the gloating though on here.
- I saw a bloke come in the pub after, who I assume was at the RS game, with a "King Kenny YNWA" trackie top on. I thought he was a wanker, but I didn't know him, so could be wrong.
- Nick Entwistle. I've never been able to put you on one side of a divide or other, due to what I thought were balanced posts, but could've been antagonistic - so I gave you the benefit of the doubt. But I could, er, be wrong.
Imagine that, they've already drawn 6 times at home, and now lost twice.
I'll watch the highlights later, but I know it won't tell me enough about the game.
I am staggered about the gloating though on here.
- I saw a bloke come in the pub after, who I assume was at the RS game, with a "King Kenny YNWA" trackie top on. I thought he was a wanker, but I didn't know him, so could be wrong.
- Nick Entwistle. I've never been able to put you on one side of a divide or other, due to what I thought were balanced posts, but could've been antagonistic - so I gave you the benefit of the doubt. But I could, er, be wrong.
Dan, people only bring up victories against the money teams when you and your crowd talk rubbish of Everton being in a pittyful state. Denying the positives is something MOBs do all the time, those who support the guy seem to have for a sense of realism with the good and bad points.
Royston's twiter page says he denies he was dropped for drinking, he;s just being saved for midweek. Good call for Moyes as it wasn't a game for Drenthe, at least that's how it looked. Perhaps they're the wrong team to give the ball away to.
Royston's twiter page says he denies he was dropped for drinking, he;s just being saved for midweek. Good call for Moyes as it wasn't a game for Drenthe, at least that's how it looked. Perhaps they're the wrong team to give the ball away to.
Matt, as I say above (I'm in the Pro Moyes camp) we're not blind to his bad points. Those who want him gone ignore the good points. Maybe because they want change and conceding positives doesn't do them favours. In my camp, well 'enjoying' the status quo we can be a bit more rounded in our views.
Just enjoying myself.
No need to get all arsey again Eugene.
I must be getting better though because I was a soft 7 year old last time.
Sorry Tony, just got a bit giddy and fed up with all the bullshit I've read on here this week. At least it got you commenting after a win for a change.
What has me going to the match got to do with anything.
No need to get all arsey again Eugene.
I must be getting better though because I was a soft 7 year old last time.
Sorry Tony, just got a bit giddy and fed up with all the bullshit I've read on here this week. At least it got you commenting after a win for a change.
What has me going to the match got to do with anything.
Dan - so Swansea away is meaningless but Bolton, Stoke and QPR at home are meaningful.........?
Yes Nick and when people don't say what you like put two fingers up to them, not well rounded at all.
Nick, Everton are in a pretty pitiful state. I'll admit I want Moyes out and a manager in who shows some enthusiasm for Everton, which I don't believe he does anymore, someone who drums belief into the players and sends them out onto the pitch believing they can beat anyone, I don't believe he does anymore (knife to a gunfight). I'm not blind to his good points, I just wish he was consistent with them.
Sorry Mark, our leader threw it
Let's conjecture 1 pt each and, accept the facts of the following games... EFC 41 LFC 40
Let's conjecture 1 pt each and, accept the facts of the following games... EFC 41 LFC 40
Mike Green
Now now. Your not allowed to point out facts, they dont like them!!!
Now now. Your not allowed to point out facts, they dont like them!!!
'The difference between 9th and 13th on March 24th is £0, Mark.'
Stupid thing to say. The point is the league is incredibly tight and every point counts.
'We could have already been above the Shite, but we all know why we ain't.'
Maybe, maybe not. How do you know? It's just a game we lost. Not the first, not the last. If we'd beaten Arsenal on Tues we might have been ahead of the Shite now. That is irrelevant. In football you win some, you lose some. It's all about how many points you have in May ? not who you got them against or whether you got most of them between Sept-Dec or Jan-May. Both QPR and Wigan have beaten Liverpool this week. I'd change places with neither. Would you?
'You are right, 3 points is 3 points, but the pro Moyes brigade spout how good he is for getting certain 3 points against the money teams, whilst mentioning none of the 0 points we pick up against Bolton, Stoke and QPR when they ride into town.'
Not me. Read my previous posts. I couldn't give a fuck who we beat and who beats us. I'm not going kick off when Bolton beat us, and I'm not going to get over excited when we beat Man Cuty. As I said, I judge Moyes on where we are in May every year compared with what I considered possible the previous August. In nine out of ten years he has finished higher than I predicted.
Stupid thing to say. The point is the league is incredibly tight and every point counts.
'We could have already been above the Shite, but we all know why we ain't.'
Maybe, maybe not. How do you know? It's just a game we lost. Not the first, not the last. If we'd beaten Arsenal on Tues we might have been ahead of the Shite now. That is irrelevant. In football you win some, you lose some. It's all about how many points you have in May ? not who you got them against or whether you got most of them between Sept-Dec or Jan-May. Both QPR and Wigan have beaten Liverpool this week. I'd change places with neither. Would you?
'You are right, 3 points is 3 points, but the pro Moyes brigade spout how good he is for getting certain 3 points against the money teams, whilst mentioning none of the 0 points we pick up against Bolton, Stoke and QPR when they ride into town.'
Not me. Read my previous posts. I couldn't give a fuck who we beat and who beats us. I'm not going kick off when Bolton beat us, and I'm not going to get over excited when we beat Man Cuty. As I said, I judge Moyes on where we are in May every year compared with what I considered possible the previous August. In nine out of ten years he has finished higher than I predicted.
EXACTLY Mike!
No Phil. It's just a game we lost. Like I said, not the first, won't be the last. It happens in football. And it was no more or less important than the game today.
Nick (317), I understand better now. I am a changeling with Moyes. I do understand his constraints that he works under, and think he has done tremendously well in his time. I don't expect (like some) for him to call out his employer for not providing silly money, as that'd be daft.. But I am not convinced he would be comfortable awash with cash either. Unlike others, I don't see why we're lucky to hang on to him (for the £65k a week he's paid), and I hear Tottenham won't come calling, and don't expect anyone else to soon either.
I will not forgive him easily for the derby lay down. As someone else pointed out, when he eventually drops down a level to his dream Celtic job, would he ever take half a team to Ibrox like that? I digress...
I want for 2 things only. BK to fuck off, and DM to succeed. I know that's too much to ask.
It is sad though how results (either way) lead to such triumphalism on either side. Can't we just be happy the RS lost?!
I will not forgive him easily for the derby lay down. As someone else pointed out, when he eventually drops down a level to his dream Celtic job, would he ever take half a team to Ibrox like that? I digress...
I want for 2 things only. BK to fuck off, and DM to succeed. I know that's too much to ask.
It is sad though how results (either way) lead to such triumphalism on either side. Can't we just be happy the RS lost?!
Yes, Mike, because that is exactly what I said. I said when compared to the Sunderland game. If we win that on Tuesday, a loss today would have been forgiven, if we lose on Tuesday, today's result will be no consolation, hence why I said it was 'relatively' meaningless. I think it is meaningless, there I said it, someone can now put it in little quotes.
So a league loss is ok, Dan, as long because there is a QF in a few days time? Not what people were saying 10 days ago. Fickle.
Does anyone know of any other clubs that have a manager that is so fantastic, that they are so lucky to have, yet divides the fans about 50/50?
No Mark...we threw it; if we'd just lost, it'd be easier to accept
Are you seriouslty telling us it was just one of those things, we didn't give Liverpool a massive helping hand and you'd be happy for Moyes to similar in future against our biigest rivals?
Bollocks!
Are you seriouslty telling us it was just one of those things, we didn't give Liverpool a massive helping hand and you'd be happy for Moyes to similar in future against our biigest rivals?
Bollocks!
Didn't say that though did I, mark? That it was ok? I said it would have been forgiven if we win the QF 4 days later.
Mark Stone
So you have to choose between winning at Goodison against Spurs or at Anfield against the shite.
Which is it ?
So you have to choose between winning at Goodison against Spurs or at Anfield against the shite.
Which is it ?
Drenthe just rested for Tuesday.
Last question, Mark, before I go out to wind up the Loveable Reds...
When Moyes is manager of Celtic, will he even contemplate fielding such a weakened team against Rangers?
C'mon now...be honest
When Moyes is manager of Celtic, will he even contemplate fielding such a weakened team against Rangers?
C'mon now...be honest
Still pinching myself after today-went to the Liberty fearing the worst.
Swansea were the better team for much of the first half without really threatening. They seem to carve through our middle of Gibson and Neville easily and I was really worried that they would get the ball out left to Sinclair as Hibbert never seemed aware of him. Jagielka made some great last ditch tackles but why were they necessary? Everton made it difficult and gave the ball away far too easily. Swansea seemed always first to the ball and closed down Everton very quickly whenever they lost possession
Then in the last 5 minutes of the half they seemed to start playing football.
Second half Everton came out fired up from the start and were always the better team. Baines' free kick was sublime.
Fellaini coming on seemed to really help Everton kick on. He always found space and was linking up with so much of the play. Again I feared the worst when Jelavic missed a sitter! I was so wrong!
Everton could have won by 3 or 4 and no-one would have complained!
For me Distin was class at the back and Fellaini made a huge difference when he came on.
I had to behave as my son and I were surrounded by Swansea fans but the travelling Everton fans were absolutely magnificent this afternoon
COYB!!
Swansea were the better team for much of the first half without really threatening. They seem to carve through our middle of Gibson and Neville easily and I was really worried that they would get the ball out left to Sinclair as Hibbert never seemed aware of him. Jagielka made some great last ditch tackles but why were they necessary? Everton made it difficult and gave the ball away far too easily. Swansea seemed always first to the ball and closed down Everton very quickly whenever they lost possession
Then in the last 5 minutes of the half they seemed to start playing football.
Second half Everton came out fired up from the start and were always the better team. Baines' free kick was sublime.
Fellaini coming on seemed to really help Everton kick on. He always found space and was linking up with so much of the play. Again I feared the worst when Jelavic missed a sitter! I was so wrong!
Everton could have won by 3 or 4 and no-one would have complained!
For me Distin was class at the back and Fellaini made a huge difference when he came on.
I had to behave as my son and I were surrounded by Swansea fans but the travelling Everton fans were absolutely magnificent this afternoon
COYB!!
On Distin despite his advancing years he is one of the quickest and strongest centre halves I have seen.
He would definitely be in with a shout of being in Premier League team of the season.
He would definitely be in with a shout of being in Premier League team of the season.
Barry, you misunderstand, I'm rounded in my opinion of Moyes. As for your attitude and those who go with it - you don't just get the middle digit but both cannons.
Dan - you didn't say that but lets move on. A little known fact about the meaningful games you hold so much stock against. You know the ones, the ones you give a fuck about. They only come about as a result of winning the ones you don't give a fuck about. Otherwise we would share a league with one other team and automatically qualify for the FA Cup Final, traditionally played the first weekend after the two league games of the season.
Barry - you've got to win your home games.....
Barry #341 no one has the benefit of choosing but essentially there are 6 potential outcomes. 0,1,2,3,4 or 6 points. Given the opposition, 3 points wasn't a bad outcome, which if I remember Moyes was slaughtered for stating the bleeding obvious.
'No Mark...we threw it; if we'd just lost, it'd be easier to accept
Are you seriouslty telling us it was just one of those things, we didn't give Liverpool a massive helping hand and you'd be happy for Moyes to similar in future against our biigest rivals?'
I serioustly think you've had an even biiger glass of vino than I have, so I'll keep this brief. No I don't. I think Moyes rotated his squad which, with a certain 5 in 14 and potential 7 in 21 was sensible. Ultimately, I don't care about the derby any more than I do any other game. Maybe when they start awarding 6 points for a win against local rivals then I'll change my mind.
'Mark Stone
So you have to choose between winning at Goodison against Spurs or at Anfield against the shite.
Which is it ?'
Gosh, didn't realise the premier league was so easy, Barry. So if we'd have out a weakened team (ie our england players) out against Spurs and brought in the fans favourites (Neville and Cahill) against Liverpool we might not have beaten Spurs but we would, without doubt have beaten the Shite, hey? Nice one mate. Answer - couldn't give a fuck really because they are both worth 3 points so it makes no difference. My preference would be to win both, but if I can only have one ... seein as though I go home but not away I'd take the home win.
Are you seriouslty telling us it was just one of those things, we didn't give Liverpool a massive helping hand and you'd be happy for Moyes to similar in future against our biigest rivals?'
I serioustly think you've had an even biiger glass of vino than I have, so I'll keep this brief. No I don't. I think Moyes rotated his squad which, with a certain 5 in 14 and potential 7 in 21 was sensible. Ultimately, I don't care about the derby any more than I do any other game. Maybe when they start awarding 6 points for a win against local rivals then I'll change my mind.
'Mark Stone
So you have to choose between winning at Goodison against Spurs or at Anfield against the shite.
Which is it ?'
Gosh, didn't realise the premier league was so easy, Barry. So if we'd have out a weakened team (ie our england players) out against Spurs and brought in the fans favourites (Neville and Cahill) against Liverpool we might not have beaten Spurs but we would, without doubt have beaten the Shite, hey? Nice one mate. Answer - couldn't give a fuck really because they are both worth 3 points so it makes no difference. My preference would be to win both, but if I can only have one ... seein as though I go home but not away I'd take the home win.
First the positive:
That was the first game I've actually enjoyed watching for a long time, especially 2nd half.
Some of the second half football is probably the best I've seen us play for years.
Gibson was solid, Fellaini, Baines and Pienaar were brilliant. Jelavic worked very hard and looks a very good player.
I was delighted to see that we went on and got the second goal rather than just hanging tight to the first we scored.
As regarding other matters, I still think Moyes should go and no single game or 45 minutes of very good football is going to change my opinion which has been borne out of many years of watching Moyes and his methods and his team.
Sorry, I'm not as fickle as some to think that such an insignificant game is more relevant than many years of watching players who are capable of playing like that, play like a pub team. I'd have some smpathy with Moyes if they weren't his players, but he's bought them all.
Finally, to compare the resources of Swansea and Everton (since 2006) and just focus on transfer spend is barmy. What about total salary available to the manager? What about undeclared loan and agent fees? What about transfer fee's before 2006, don't they count? I don't have the figures to hand, but I'd be shocked if swansea's wage bill was more than a fraction of our 60ish million, and the same goes for total transfer spend over the last 10 or so years.
That was the first game I've actually enjoyed watching for a long time, especially 2nd half.
Some of the second half football is probably the best I've seen us play for years.
Gibson was solid, Fellaini, Baines and Pienaar were brilliant. Jelavic worked very hard and looks a very good player.
I was delighted to see that we went on and got the second goal rather than just hanging tight to the first we scored.
As regarding other matters, I still think Moyes should go and no single game or 45 minutes of very good football is going to change my opinion which has been borne out of many years of watching Moyes and his methods and his team.
Sorry, I'm not as fickle as some to think that such an insignificant game is more relevant than many years of watching players who are capable of playing like that, play like a pub team. I'd have some smpathy with Moyes if they weren't his players, but he's bought them all.
Finally, to compare the resources of Swansea and Everton (since 2006) and just focus on transfer spend is barmy. What about total salary available to the manager? What about undeclared loan and agent fees? What about transfer fee's before 2006, don't they count? I don't have the figures to hand, but I'd be shocked if swansea's wage bill was more than a fraction of our 60ish million, and the same goes for total transfer spend over the last 10 or so years.
'When Moyes is manager of Celtic, will he even contemplate fielding such a weakened team against Rangers?
C'mon now...be honest'
Depends on what was at stake.
C'mon now...be honest'
Depends on what was at stake.
' to compare the resources of Swansea and Everton (since 2006) and just focus on transfer spend is barmy. What about total salary available to the manager? What about undeclared loan and agent fees? What about transfer fee's before 2006, don't they count?'
But we should have beaten Liverpool away, right?
But we should have beaten Liverpool away, right?
You don't quite get my meaning when I said 'relatively' meaningless, Mike. The rest of your last comment made no sense to me. If someone offered you a win on tuesday, but take a loss today, would you have said yes?
Nick
I don't think I did misunderstand you have an opinion about Moyes and those that don't adhere to your view get told to fuck off - not parliamentary - but it's a growing trend among the like minded.
Mike Green
You're not a scouser are you.
I don't think I did misunderstand you have an opinion about Moyes and those that don't adhere to your view get told to fuck off - not parliamentary - but it's a growing trend among the like minded.
Mike Green
You're not a scouser are you.
Mark, we should have played a full strength side at Liverpool away, right?
I don't give a damn about the liverpool result, Mark. That was just another game and I didn't really expect us to get a result, though I'd have liked to have gone there with a stronger team and really given it a go to try to keep confidence up.
I'm more pissed off that we don't get more results like the one today against teams with weaker(or similar) squads. I'm also annoyed that we don't play with a bit more flair; which the players are evidently capable of doing.
The list of things that annoy me about Moyes and his methods is a mile long. Beating richer teams more often isn't one of them, however.
I'm more pissed off that we don't get more results like the one today against teams with weaker(or similar) squads. I'm also annoyed that we don't play with a bit more flair; which the players are evidently capable of doing.
The list of things that annoy me about Moyes and his methods is a mile long. Beating richer teams more often isn't one of them, however.
We talk about the derby as if we played the youth team. I don't blame him for not picking Jonny and Royston. The derby is usually fast and frantic. Often a player gets sent off and, usually because the ref favours the shite, it's more often one of our players. I could easily see Roysten seeing red and Jonny, as inspiring as he has been for us, has the potentiall for going in a game like that.
The only surprise selection was Victor instead of Jelavic but I guess he thought brawn instead of guile would be the most likely route to goal.
The players quite simply were awful.
The only surprise selection was Victor instead of Jelavic but I guess he thought brawn instead of guile would be the most likely route to goal.
The players quite simply were awful.
'What about transfer fee's before 2006, don't they count? I don't have the figures to hand, but I'd be shocked if swansea's wage bill was more than a fraction of our 60ish million, and the same goes for total transfer spend over the last 10 or so years.'
Our annual transfer spend since 2003 is £1.9m and Swansea's in £1.1m. You are right, we're the Man City of mid table. Our salaries + wages are less than Sunderland, Stoke etc and similar to Fulham and Bolton. That is 'where we are' money wise.
Our annual transfer spend since 2003 is £1.9m and Swansea's in £1.1m. You are right, we're the Man City of mid table. Our salaries + wages are less than Sunderland, Stoke etc and similar to Fulham and Bolton. That is 'where we are' money wise.
'I don't give a damn about the Liverpool result, Mark. That was just another game and I didn't really expect us to get a result, though I'd have liked to have gone there with a stronger team and really given it a go to try to keep confidence up.'
Maybe you don't but a lot of people on here do and that post was there for everyone, not just you. The truth is there are a lot of people on here who won't accept when we don't beat teams with less resources than us (because it's all about money) but also don't accept when we don't beat the top 6 (because it's not about the money). Your point raised an interesting point that warranted further attention.
Maybe you don't but a lot of people on here do and that post was there for everyone, not just you. The truth is there are a lot of people on here who won't accept when we don't beat teams with less resources than us (because it's all about money) but also don't accept when we don't beat the top 6 (because it's not about the money). Your point raised an interesting point that warranted further attention.
I'm sorry but this article is a disgrace. Nick, so what if you don't agree with the views of the "MOB"; as you annoyingly refer to them.
You have absolutely no right to stick two fingers up to the views of anybody else. That's the same as writing "f*ck off" or abuse. Get over yourself.
To the matter at hand..
Yes, today was great for various reasons but given your depraved view of football, please answer me this..
Does today justify? QPR (H)? Stoke (H)? Norwich (H)? City (A)? Bolton (H)? Liverpool (A)? No, it most certainly doesn't. One good performance doesn't suddenly make everything right with the world.
Going overboard about one very good away win is just as fickle as calling for heads after one bad defeat.
Nobody on here has the right to give the views of others "two fingers" or whatever you want to dress it as. The whole function of this site is opinions, we don't need any morons shouting from the rooftops that their opinion rules all.
You have absolutely no right to stick two fingers up to the views of anybody else. That's the same as writing "f*ck off" or abuse. Get over yourself.
To the matter at hand..
Yes, today was great for various reasons but given your depraved view of football, please answer me this..
Does today justify? QPR (H)? Stoke (H)? Norwich (H)? City (A)? Bolton (H)? Liverpool (A)? No, it most certainly doesn't. One good performance doesn't suddenly make everything right with the world.
Going overboard about one very good away win is just as fickle as calling for heads after one bad defeat.
Nobody on here has the right to give the views of others "two fingers" or whatever you want to dress it as. The whole function of this site is opinions, we don't need any morons shouting from the rooftops that their opinion rules all.
And Barry - if you want his to turn into a cock fighting competition we can do it?
After stating yesterday that you don't see Prem teams indulging in "you play / we play" anymore, it was a welcome surprise to be proved wrong today. That's exactly what we got.
Listen, we were terrific today, its a very long time since I`ve seen a home teams fans applauding our football, but on several occasions the Swans fans burst into applause, our football was at times sumptuous.
We can be very certain that MON`s Sunderland will not open up and play as the Swansea did today.
Tuesday's game will be a completely different kettle of fish and without Pienaar ? who was involved in everything good today ? we`ll struggle to find the same sort of rhythm.
But we`ll take today, a great game played in a great spirit, in front of passionate fans.
Good preperation, but the real test comes at the SOL.
Listen, we were terrific today, its a very long time since I`ve seen a home teams fans applauding our football, but on several occasions the Swans fans burst into applause, our football was at times sumptuous.
We can be very certain that MON`s Sunderland will not open up and play as the Swansea did today.
Tuesday's game will be a completely different kettle of fish and without Pienaar ? who was involved in everything good today ? we`ll struggle to find the same sort of rhythm.
But we`ll take today, a great game played in a great spirit, in front of passionate fans.
Good preperation, but the real test comes at the SOL.
MOTD is excellent. The Kop know they can't chant Dalglish Out... but you know they want to.
Great win today, shame people are still bringing up Liverpool, and now rather interestingly, demeaning this result on the basis of a potential defeat on tuesday. Shame.
With regards to the Liverpool result, it was only one game as Mark has said. I know Wigan have won today, but previously only Arsenal had managed a win, which was incredibly fortunate, and I believe Liverpool would have been strong favorites even with our best team out. I agreed with Moyes' thinking, as based on the cup game coming up, I believe he should have rested players too (as did many on this site). Maybe we will benefit from the rotation at the end of the season, maybe it will make no difference but resting players for a cup quarter final made sense.
But back to today; it was a great result and great performance. Hopefully we can repeat the performance in mid-week and get a bit of luck this time.
With regards to the Liverpool result, it was only one game as Mark has said. I know Wigan have won today, but previously only Arsenal had managed a win, which was incredibly fortunate, and I believe Liverpool would have been strong favorites even with our best team out. I agreed with Moyes' thinking, as based on the cup game coming up, I believe he should have rested players too (as did many on this site). Maybe we will benefit from the rotation at the end of the season, maybe it will make no difference but resting players for a cup quarter final made sense.
But back to today; it was a great result and great performance. Hopefully we can repeat the performance in mid-week and get a bit of luck this time.
Barry, some fans are capable of perspective, some are not. Referring to the emotional connection of the city etc, whilst true to an extent, does not render those who believe 3 points is just 3 points any less of a fan or lacking the capacity of what it means to come from the city.
Moyes, as a manager, must have exteriority away from the emotion of one game. Clearly in the league our options are limited, but in the cup we had (and still have) a chance at winning something which we all want. If you asked 1000 Everton fans before the Liverpool game which game they'd prefer us to win, most would have chosen the latter. By resting players, we increased our chances of winning the cup game, which is the whole basis of the rotation policy. If alot was riding on the game, or it was at home and we had a better chance of winning, maybe it would have been different. But ultimately the game may have impacted on the fight for seventh place, but that is all.
One game is one game. Sure some of us will get the piss taken out of us, and it was embarrasing because of its manner, but Moyes' choice to rest players had a rational basis.
Moyes, as a manager, must have exteriority away from the emotion of one game. Clearly in the league our options are limited, but in the cup we had (and still have) a chance at winning something which we all want. If you asked 1000 Everton fans before the Liverpool game which game they'd prefer us to win, most would have chosen the latter. By resting players, we increased our chances of winning the cup game, which is the whole basis of the rotation policy. If alot was riding on the game, or it was at home and we had a better chance of winning, maybe it would have been different. But ultimately the game may have impacted on the fight for seventh place, but that is all.
One game is one game. Sure some of us will get the piss taken out of us, and it was embarrasing because of its manner, but Moyes' choice to rest players had a rational basis.
'By resting players, we increased our chances of winning the cup game,'
Did we Jim (402)? What is your proof of that? Liverpool rested no players and won both games. We rested players and won neither, Did we really have a better chance by disrupting a team on an unbeaten run?
Did we Jim (402)? What is your proof of that? Liverpool rested no players and won both games. We rested players and won neither, Did we really have a better chance by disrupting a team on an unbeaten run?
'Did we Jim (402)? What is your proof of that? Liverpool rested no players and won both games. We rested players and won neither, Did we really have a better chance by disrupting a team on an unbeaten run?'
Liverpool made four changes from the team that played Sunderland a few days earlier. I, for one, was delighted to see Kuyt and Bellamy not starting. I guess the difference is strength in depth. There rotation is less evident. Also - maybe they should have done a bit more rotation. QPR and Wigan have beaten them in the last 4 days. Residual fatigue? Incomplete recovery? Probably.
Liverpool made four changes from the team that played Sunderland a few days earlier. I, for one, was delighted to see Kuyt and Bellamy not starting. I guess the difference is strength in depth. There rotation is less evident. Also - maybe they should have done a bit more rotation. QPR and Wigan have beaten them in the last 4 days. Residual fatigue? Incomplete recovery? Probably.
'Did we Jim (402)? What is your proof of that? Liverpool rested no players and won both games. We rested players and won neither, Did we really have a better chance by disrupting a team on an unbeaten run?'
An unbeaten run? I'm sorry, did Jelavic, Osman and Drenthe play more of a role in that unbeaten run than Denis, Hibbert, Pienaar and Anichebe? Or is your big problem with resting of Neville and Cahill?
An unbeaten run? I'm sorry, did Jelavic, Osman and Drenthe play more of a role in that unbeaten run than Denis, Hibbert, Pienaar and Anichebe? Or is your big problem with resting of Neville and Cahill?
Have to say, it is pretty gruesome to see our fanbase divided like this, whatever the rights and wrongs.
Just watched our win, Liverpool's defeat and then. best of all, seen the list of king Kenny's signings. ANDY CARROLL £35 million. Joy,sheer fucking joy.
Andy, there's a few £20m signings under that too! We're going to end up above them, guaranteed.
Brian. we're not divided in what we want, just how we get it. It's robust debate, that's all.
The Moyes In/Moyes Out argument I get. Same as any team, any sport. But why are some of us clinging to Everton defined by the Shite? Fuck them. They had us last week.
Of interest to me is our players on the pitch innocent bystanders. We lost because of a guy standing on the sideline, not the players? Interesting.
That game is done and not coming back. Here we sit, a few days later, the same 2 points behind them with 24 points to go. Fuck them.
And no "You don't understand the derby American" bullshit. My Yankees and Jamie Crowley's team play 18 or 19 derbies every year. We understand derbies perfectly well.
There's 24 points left in the league with 6th place in play. We're a game away from the Semis in Cup play.
COYB.
Kenwright OUT!!!
Of interest to me is our players on the pitch innocent bystanders. We lost because of a guy standing on the sideline, not the players? Interesting.
That game is done and not coming back. Here we sit, a few days later, the same 2 points behind them with 24 points to go. Fuck them.
And no "You don't understand the derby American" bullshit. My Yankees and Jamie Crowley's team play 18 or 19 derbies every year. We understand derbies perfectly well.
There's 24 points left in the league with 6th place in play. We're a game away from the Semis in Cup play.
COYB.
Kenwright OUT!!!
Brian (424) - We're not divided. We're all delighted when we win and pissed when we lose. The common demoninator.
One thing we must not do is get carried away by this win. I said that we may be playing a better side than us yesterday but I believe I was wrong. If you ask a Swansea fan what happened yesterday they will say that we won because they were absolutely woeful. It's all perception and yesterday we absolutely outperformed ourselves. Sunderland is what matters and hopefully we can pull out a good performance there. The downside is that Moyes believes now that Fellaini upfront is what we need.
Wigan didn't win yesterday because they were a weaker side that won by simply playing positively. Liverpool were woeful and Wigan were simply the better side on the day. If they won just by being more positive they should win every week which is patent nonsense. They lose when they play a better side on the day, yesterday they were playing as bad a team as I've seen in the Premier League this season. After the emotional improvement after the coming of the King, they are rubbish.
Wigan didn't win yesterday because they were a weaker side that won by simply playing positively. Liverpool were woeful and Wigan were simply the better side on the day. If they won just by being more positive they should win every week which is patent nonsense. They lose when they play a better side on the day, yesterday they were playing as bad a team as I've seen in the Premier League this season. After the emotional improvement after the coming of the King, they are rubbish.
Why do the Moyesophiles always resort to 'mob attacks' when they think they have the upper hand? To paraphrase their bleats, when we lost disgustingly to Liverpool 'its only one game GET OVER IT".
BTW slightly off subject but did anyone else like me laugh out loud seeing the incoherent mumbling Jock Dogleash trying to justify yet another home defeat to an 'inferior on paper' team.
Another interesting FACT to put Evertons recent results in to perspective for all the deluded Moyesophiles:
"In their worst run since January 2005, Liverpool have now won just one of their past seven Premier League games and only one of their past five at Anfield. Last month?s Carling Cup winners have picked up just eight points from their past 11 League games."
And they are STILL two points ABOVE us.
"In their worst run since January 2005, Liverpool have now won just one of their past seven Premier League games and only one of their past five at Anfield. Last month?s Carling Cup winners have picked up just eight points from their past 11 League games."
And they are STILL two points ABOVE us.
Martin 442; well actually we were a tighter 4-5-1 rather than our Cahill based 4-4-1-1. Cahill spent a lot of his time shadowing Britten who much of their stuff goes through. When Tim was taken off, Britten was nullified and Swansea were 'institutionalised' into not playing through him.
Fellaini came on and while he was higher up the field than usual he wasn't in the traditional Cahill role. Other than that I can't fault most of the points you mention.
I read/heard/whatever, that Hodgson's WLD stats when he was sacked are actually better than Queen Kenny's. If true what they gonna do, form a Queens Own Kenny Out Brigade, it couldn't happen to a better mob.
Hopefully all the name-calling handbag wavers have gone to bed to sleep it of and will awake with a bad head and a sheepish thought of... what the hell was I on last night, full moon indeed. Still, it happens to the best of us now and again.
Fellaini came on and while he was higher up the field than usual he wasn't in the traditional Cahill role. Other than that I can't fault most of the points you mention.
I read/heard/whatever, that Hodgson's WLD stats when he was sacked are actually better than Queen Kenny's. If true what they gonna do, form a Queens Own Kenny Out Brigade, it couldn't happen to a better mob.
Hopefully all the name-calling handbag wavers have gone to bed to sleep it of and will awake with a bad head and a sheepish thought of... what the hell was I on last night, full moon indeed. Still, it happens to the best of us now and again.
Thanks Derek, I didn't see the game at all unfortunately because my Hotel bandwidth won't give a stream. I watched Liverpool vs Wigan instead on TV and was absolutely amazed. Queen Kenny as ever was rude and graceless in defeat. I really thank the people on the forum for keeping me in touch with their comments on the Everton game. I'm so pleased with how Everton played yesterday and the result of course. I dream now of a good win at Sunderland and then knocking the RS out at Wembley. Too much to expect perhaps but I can live in hope.
This from 349.
"Barry, you misunderstand, I'm rounded in my opinion of Moyes. As for your attitude and those who go with it - you don't just get the middle digit but both cannons".
I thought this has a familiar..tone.
Self-congratulatory.
A confidence based purely on 'It's right because I'M saying it'.
Use of the Bruce Willis-style expression from a (no doubt) suburban Englishman.
It reminded me of..someone
Then it hit me.
Could it be...HIM?
http://uktv.co.uk/images/homepage/107182.jpg
"Barry, you misunderstand, I'm rounded in my opinion of Moyes. As for your attitude and those who go with it - you don't just get the middle digit but both cannons".
I thought this has a familiar..tone.
Self-congratulatory.
A confidence based purely on 'It's right because I'M saying it'.
Use of the Bruce Willis-style expression from a (no doubt) suburban Englishman.
It reminded me of..someone
Then it hit me.
Could it be...HIM?
http://uktv.co.uk/images/homepage/107182.jpg
Tandle Hill, great stuff.
Are Everton fans comfortable with the idea of coming on Toffeeweb claiming not to care about the game/result when we win a Premier League match?
At least its on record.
At least its on record.
And Barry, try being the only Evertononian to 200 or so Liverpool fans if you're not from the city, most of whom have never been, will never go (except maybe once in a lifetime) but will still feel they have a right to bang on and crow about despite having no understanding of what it really means to be a football fan, or the nature of the relationship between the two clubs.
At least you've got other blues around you. You've got it easy mate.
At least you've got other blues around you. You've got it easy mate.
Bit late joining the party...
Cahil and P Neville, were tweeting G Neville after the game and thanking him for his advice and game plan. There is a whole series of tweets before the game and after, regarding how to play them...
G Neville then goes on to say, tongue in cheek, that he would manage Everton if DM goes to Spurs... knows his stuff.
Just saying.
Cahil and P Neville, were tweeting G Neville after the game and thanking him for his advice and game plan. There is a whole series of tweets before the game and after, regarding how to play them...
G Neville then goes on to say, tongue in cheek, that he would manage Everton if DM goes to Spurs... knows his stuff.
Just saying.
Mike I don't think that some of us dont care, more that we see a bigger picture.
One win, or one loss is all small-fry, regardless of who it was against. But if you take a look at Moyes in his last 3 or 4 years and how his attitude has changed and his energy gone, then you may take a different view. I know I certainly have.
Remember Moyes that raised our expectations of where we should be and got us to 4th place, has turned into a Moyes who is actively lowering our expectations of who we can expect to beat before a ball is kicked. That is a rotten, cancerous mindset I don't want anywhere near the club I support.
One win, or one loss is all small-fry, regardless of who it was against. But if you take a look at Moyes in his last 3 or 4 years and how his attitude has changed and his energy gone, then you may take a different view. I know I certainly have.
Remember Moyes that raised our expectations of where we should be and got us to 4th place, has turned into a Moyes who is actively lowering our expectations of who we can expect to beat before a ball is kicked. That is a rotten, cancerous mindset I don't want anywhere near the club I support.
Wayne, could Moye's attitude be one of a manager who knows he is not going to get the tools to do the job but who is just having to get on with it anyway. A man who knows expectations and knows he will find it difficult if not impossible to deliver.
Mike Green
Your question has no relevance but I'll help you out till your head clears.
Both being Evertonians you will be equally miffed, very straight forward.
In your confused state, you are missing the point ? would your missus prefer 3 points against Spurs or the Shite? (after all this is the bone of contention regarding Mark and his "3 points is 3 points" statement) and would your stance be different (not coming from Liverpool) causing your wife to question your manhood?
If you walked around Liverpool asking Evertonians the question I don't think you'd get anyone saying "3 points is points ? don't matter ".
Can you hear the shout "now Maitland.....now is your time" ? if so, this is your Waterloo.
Your question has no relevance but I'll help you out till your head clears.
Both being Evertonians you will be equally miffed, very straight forward.
In your confused state, you are missing the point ? would your missus prefer 3 points against Spurs or the Shite? (after all this is the bone of contention regarding Mark and his "3 points is 3 points" statement) and would your stance be different (not coming from Liverpool) causing your wife to question your manhood?
If you walked around Liverpool asking Evertonians the question I don't think you'd get anyone saying "3 points is points ? don't matter ".
Can you hear the shout "now Maitland.....now is your time" ? if so, this is your Waterloo.
Martin, if the expectation and pressure has got to him ? which I think it probably has ? then I think that's good enough reason to get rid and try again with a fresh manager, who may or may not do better.
Moyes's idea of success is 40pts / season on a £60M wage budget, complete job security and 10 years with which to have completely reshaped the playing side of the club from top to bottom.
I think we can and should be playing the brand of football we saw in the second half against Swansea a lot more often against the weaker sides in the league and I'm more than happy to go backs to the wall and nick one against clubs with much bigger budgets. Problem is that we've seen over the last 10 years that, in general, Moyes's sides play one style of football.
Moyes isn't crap, but I think he's not going to change and improve either. He's lost his energy and his belief in himself or his players. He's basically happy to pick up his very large salary and accept a zero-pressure environment in return for zero expectation on results and entertainment.
Moyes's idea of success is 40pts / season on a £60M wage budget, complete job security and 10 years with which to have completely reshaped the playing side of the club from top to bottom.
I think we can and should be playing the brand of football we saw in the second half against Swansea a lot more often against the weaker sides in the league and I'm more than happy to go backs to the wall and nick one against clubs with much bigger budgets. Problem is that we've seen over the last 10 years that, in general, Moyes's sides play one style of football.
Moyes isn't crap, but I think he's not going to change and improve either. He's lost his energy and his belief in himself or his players. He's basically happy to pick up his very large salary and accept a zero-pressure environment in return for zero expectation on results and entertainment.
"Anyone who might have thought Everton would have Tuesday?s big FA Cup tie at Sunderland on their minds clearly doesn?t know David Moyes."
That's the opening line of our match report from the Daily Mirror. Think we can guess just about how long their memories are.
That's the opening line of our match report from the Daily Mirror. Think we can guess just about how long their memories are.
What's being scouse got to do with it Brian? I do agree that some people go way too far with their little games on here. Let's all enjoy the win and look forward to a rip-roaring cup tie on Tuesday. COYB.
Didn't get to see the match, but am stoked we won and scored two goals in the process. I'm going to use the broken clock theory in regard to Moyes this time, but, having not seen how the match went, can't really comment on who got what right.
Nick, very early in the responses you say that the pro Moyes camp do see his faults, whereas the MOB ignore his positives. I think that is utter bollocks, and I think you do too.
I acknowledge Moyes has strengths, and that in the first five years of his tenure he displayed them quite well. That I happen to want him gone despite his past "achievements" now is no different to how you want him to stay despite his obvious flaws as a tactician and motivator.
Nick, very early in the responses you say that the pro Moyes camp do see his faults, whereas the MOB ignore his positives. I think that is utter bollocks, and I think you do too.
I acknowledge Moyes has strengths, and that in the first five years of his tenure he displayed them quite well. That I happen to want him gone despite his past "achievements" now is no different to how you want him to stay despite his obvious flaws as a tactician and motivator.
Roman, were those flaws obvious yesterday for example?
Roman 480; I keep repeating this. Moyes's good points helped get us to where we are; his bad points seem to stop us maximising what little we have.
His good points are and were in the past, there may be some in the here and now, but they are overshadowed this season by the negative side of Moyes.
We went to Swansea and did a Swansea on them, open passing football. Just like a number of teams have come to Goodison and done a Moyes KITAP1 to us.
I actually think that Donovan was the key; he was on what was basically a holiday, he didn't have to buy in to Moyes's "everybody track back into the 6 yd box". He was only here a few weeks anyway, Moyes had no real hold over him and thus the Moyes "defence over everything" tactic was tipped over into an ever so slightly attacking biased system... and look at the results before during and after.
It doesn't take much, Davey, just a slight change in emphasis.
That's what this member of the MOB wants.
His good points are and were in the past, there may be some in the here and now, but they are overshadowed this season by the negative side of Moyes.
We went to Swansea and did a Swansea on them, open passing football. Just like a number of teams have come to Goodison and done a Moyes KITAP1 to us.
I actually think that Donovan was the key; he was on what was basically a holiday, he didn't have to buy in to Moyes's "everybody track back into the 6 yd box". He was only here a few weeks anyway, Moyes had no real hold over him and thus the Moyes "defence over everything" tactic was tipped over into an ever so slightly attacking biased system... and look at the results before during and after.
It doesn't take much, Davey, just a slight change in emphasis.
That's what this member of the MOB wants.
For what it's worth, I think that TW is by far the best EFC fansite around. The reason being that it gives Evertonians with different opinions a forum for their views.
IMO Moyes was totally wrong over his derby tactics and should hang his head in shame as they are our biggest games of the season (bar a cup final).
I for one like to see our club win and it's pleasant to be able to celebrate an away victory.
What I can't stand however is the questioning of a fellow Evertonian's birthplace. Who cares where you come from as long as you are a blue (Remember you where chosen.......etc). As a born and bred scouser with born and bred scouse parents, it amazes me the need of some other fellow blues to wear this like a badge of honour and degrade other Evertonians because they were not born in the city.
I left Liverpool 27 years ago and it pisses me off when I go to a post-match boozer and be questioned by insecure, immature and mostly uneducated scally knobheads that I can't be a blue or a scouser because I don't have a strong scouse accent or still live in the city.
Please get over yourselves and at least embrace Evertionians wherever you find them.
Kenwright OUT
IMO Moyes was totally wrong over his derby tactics and should hang his head in shame as they are our biggest games of the season (bar a cup final).
I for one like to see our club win and it's pleasant to be able to celebrate an away victory.
What I can't stand however is the questioning of a fellow Evertonian's birthplace. Who cares where you come from as long as you are a blue (Remember you where chosen.......etc). As a born and bred scouser with born and bred scouse parents, it amazes me the need of some other fellow blues to wear this like a badge of honour and degrade other Evertonians because they were not born in the city.
I left Liverpool 27 years ago and it pisses me off when I go to a post-match boozer and be questioned by insecure, immature and mostly uneducated scally knobheads that I can't be a blue or a scouser because I don't have a strong scouse accent or still live in the city.
Please get over yourselves and at least embrace Evertionians wherever you find them.
Kenwright OUT
Spot on Simon, anyone using this type of 'argument' is beyond desperate.
Imo, the 'better blue' is about as pitiful a character as there is and remember, we only have THEIR word for where they come from, how many games they go to and how many games they've been to.
One thing I DO know is that the net draws Tom Peppers like moths to a flame and I personally am suspicious of anyone who comes here and 'gives the big'un' re their love/support of Everton.
To me it's the TW equivalent of a short-arse wearing built up shoes.
(nb: sorry if that is to 'clever' for anyone)
Imo, the 'better blue' is about as pitiful a character as there is and remember, we only have THEIR word for where they come from, how many games they go to and how many games they've been to.
One thing I DO know is that the net draws Tom Peppers like moths to a flame and I personally am suspicious of anyone who comes here and 'gives the big'un' re their love/support of Everton.
To me it's the TW equivalent of a short-arse wearing built up shoes.
(nb: sorry if that is to 'clever' for anyone)
Eugene, I think the point was that a defeat by Liverpool will always play worse among local Blues. I have no problem with Norwegian types who can crow as much as they like without bothering me, but a scouse red can hit the sore spot !
David Moyes sets Everton up not to lose and for some reason the players decided to go for it and not sit on that first goal. Moyes spent less time in the technical area shouting instructions, waving arms and finger-pointing, and ? lo and behold ? the team of experienced pros gets on with it and plays some real nice football.
Moyes has a group of players he seems to be suffocating with unnecessary over-coaching and rigid defensive tactics. The shackles came off and Moyes sat with his players and watched them perform for that last half hour. He made sensible substitutions at the right time.
I personally would like to see more of this from Moyes and him having more trust in the team and players. Maybe after 10 years it may have dawned on Mr Moyes that you have to sometimes take a back seat and take a more relaxed approach to the job.
Let's play football the right way and maybe we can win a few things as well. and even if we don't, at least we can go home well satisfied with what's being served up.
Moyes has a group of players he seems to be suffocating with unnecessary over-coaching and rigid defensive tactics. The shackles came off and Moyes sat with his players and watched them perform for that last half hour. He made sensible substitutions at the right time.
I personally would like to see more of this from Moyes and him having more trust in the team and players. Maybe after 10 years it may have dawned on Mr Moyes that you have to sometimes take a back seat and take a more relaxed approach to the job.
Let's play football the right way and maybe we can win a few things as well. and even if we don't, at least we can go home well satisfied with what's being served up.
Brian, it is probably harder to take being surrounded by Reds after a derby defeat but the point is just because you don't live in Liverpool doesn't make your opinion any less valid as certain posters on here would like to believe.
ps: I'm a season ticket holder, born on Scotty, my grandad knew Dixie Dean and my first words were 'Everton are magic' or then again maybe not, hey Eugene.
ps: I'm a season ticket holder, born on Scotty, my grandad knew Dixie Dean and my first words were 'Everton are magic' or then again maybe not, hey Eugene.
Never understood why people started laying out their Everton credentials when asked if they were a scouser regarding the derby fiasco.
If people from the city feel the derby is more than 3 points so what?
How does that denigrate those from out of the area?
If people from the city feel the derby is more than 3 points so what?
How does that denigrate those from out of the area?
Barry, not denigrating them in any way - just trying to explain why [probably - not statistically tested] locals are less likely to accept the 'it's just another game' argument. Not condoning, not praising, just offering a theory.
Brian I totally agree, but some are injured by the question and I really don't know why.
Dave Gunning (502) - You say..
"ps: I'm a season ticket holder, born on Scotty".
Well...erm...all I can say is that must have been VERY uncomfortable for your mam.
http://farm1.staticflickr.com/21/27495649_50ab3d4b0a.jpg
"ps: I'm a season ticket holder, born on Scotty".
Well...erm...all I can say is that must have been VERY uncomfortable for your mam.
http://farm1.staticflickr.com/21/27495649_50ab3d4b0a.jpg
And Barry and Brian, I say again, maybe the Derby is EASIER for the blues in the city, as you're on one side of a 50/50 split, whereas the rest of us are surrounded by reds (they are fucking everywhere) and lack allies.
I'm just saying you don't know what it's like for blues who aren't from the city, so how can you make that judgement?
I'm just saying you don't know what it's like for blues who aren't from the city, so how can you make that judgement?
Football is a game that brings out passionate feelings more than most things. Frankly there isn't any logic as far as how one feels ? win, lose or draw.
I for one keep telling myself that I should have grown out of it by now ? feeling elated when we win, miserable as fuck when we lose ? particulary to Liverpool!
I for one keep telling myself that I should have grown out of it by now ? feeling elated when we win, miserable as fuck when we lose ? particulary to Liverpool!
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210 Posted 24/03/2012 at 17:36:57
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Well done, lads.