Season 2011-12
The Mail Bag
Has Moyes been vindicated?
61 Comments: A rollercoaster ride the last few weeks sum up this season so far. The high from yesterday's result and performance hasn't worn off yet and won't for a while.
Does yesterday's win cancel out the derby loss? I'm calling it 50%. The football gods have sent Moyes a message: Put things right.
April 14th can't come soon enough and the three games between now and then are only a distraction and a chance to fine-tune the squad.
The 3 keys for me between now and then:
1. Keep Fellaini away from 10 yellows - he has 8
2. Keep Gibson fresh
3. Keep the Jelavic and Cahill partnership clicking
The passing and movement the last two games have been a breath of fresh air and what we have all been asking/screaming for since August.
We still need a lot of sweat and luck before we can celebrate anything but, while many of us have had issues with Moyes's tactics recently, we are all hoping he gets the trophy he deserves and that we have all been waiting for.
NSNO
Mohammed Horoub, Posted 28/03/2012 at 18:30:55
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He's got the momentum back in the side that vanished the moment the Anfield team sheet was announced.
Sure, you rest 6 players for a tough stretch you are looking towards the bigger picture, and the league standings come May may be all the better for it.
But No. It could have been done different. He obviously looked ahead to the fixture pile-up and played Spurs-strong XI, Liverpool-weak, Sunderland- strong, Arsenal-strong, Swansea-weak, Sunderland-strong.
Probably the best way, but he's ignored the fans and the club's history. If he were to forgo something, rest players against Arsenal. He's made the question mark over his head all the bigger. He may well be good for league positions come May but as for the Occasion I feel he is still to prove his fortitude.
Against Liverpool he didn't even try. It was come what may. He's got a chance to redemption, he better grab it.
Sure, you rest 6 players for a tough stretch you are looking towards the bigger picture, and the league standings come May may be all the better for it.
But No. It could have been done different. He obviously looked ahead to the fixture pile-up and played Spurs-strong XI, Liverpool-weak, Sunderland- strong, Arsenal-strong, Swansea-weak, Sunderland-strong.
Probably the best way, but he's ignored the fans and the club's history. If he were to forgo something, rest players against Arsenal. He's made the question mark over his head all the bigger. He may well be good for league positions come May but as for the Occasion I feel he is still to prove his fortitude.
Against Liverpool he didn't even try. It was come what may. He's got a chance to redemption, he better grab it.
Good point about Fellaini Mohammed.
He will have to tread carefully as we need him badly for the fight against the dark side.
He will have to tread carefully as we need him badly for the fight against the dark side.
Moyes will be vindicated when we win the cup and still finish above the red shite.
(OK, I am still a little giddy from last night.)
(OK, I am still a little giddy from last night.)
Well said Nick.
I have mixed feelings on that.... for me the Cup is more important than league games at this point this season, but I would like to see the best team on the field going for a win in every game. Seems like you'd win more games that way, but I wonder if that is realistic... How long does a player need to rest after 90 minutes? How likely is an injury? On the other hand, does more game time improve our best team?
Hmmmm...
Regarding 8 yellows for Fellaini - if he gets 10 can that affect the cup semi-final or would the ban only be for the Premier League?
Hmmmm...
Regarding 8 yellows for Fellaini - if he gets 10 can that affect the cup semi-final or would the ban only be for the Premier League?
I think the bans cross over though they shouldn't in my opinion. Would I be right in thinking it would be a one match ban? If so I'd tell him to get a yellow in each of WBA and Norwich and miss the Sunderland tie (which we will obviously win anyway) and be fresh for the shite.
The fact that he done it again at Swansea at least shows he has the courage of his convictions. I think we'll see this a bit whenever we have a busy schedule.
Full vindication can only come at Wembley.
Full vindication can only come at Wembley.
time we tell. if we put them out next round then yes. .
The only advantage i can see is that the shite beat a weak Everton side which may lull them into a false sense of security when they meet us again
If we mean vindicated in its true sense then its not possible to ascertain what would happen to or results should he have started with the strongest XI.
We may have lost, but he wouldn't have volunteered doubt and played the 'see what happens' card.
Mistakes to some may not be mistakes to others, but to the Blue fan it was a forfeit, a handing of the initiative to our rivals.
His future is in his hands and depending on his success, the resulting view point of the fan is not a possible vindication of the derby but how much we chose to forget it.
... I'm in a writing mood tonight.
We may have lost, but he wouldn't have volunteered doubt and played the 'see what happens' card.
Mistakes to some may not be mistakes to others, but to the Blue fan it was a forfeit, a handing of the initiative to our rivals.
His future is in his hands and depending on his success, the resulting view point of the fan is not a possible vindication of the derby but how much we chose to forget it.
... I'm in a writing mood tonight.
What happened last night had nothing to do with what Moyes did in the derby.
In short: No.
In short: No.
HAS he?
No.
He WINS the cup?
Yes.
No.
He WINS the cup?
Yes.
The yellow card amnesty comes in to play on the second Sunday in April. That's the 8th this year, meaning that we only have the matches against West Brom and Norwich to worry about. My guess is that Fellaini will sit out the Norwich game IF he picks up a card at the weekend.
I think with Moyes, its simple. To forgive him about his team selection, we must get through to the final. Simple as.
To be fair, he obviously decided to rest some players for the good of the team, and he stuck at it, which is a good trait in a manager.
But being a passionate Evertonian, as many of us are, that defeat in the Derby is going to make it very hard to forgive him. We MUST get to the final, and then hopefully win it.
To be fair, he obviously decided to rest some players for the good of the team, and he stuck at it, which is a good trait in a manager.
But being a passionate Evertonian, as many of us are, that defeat in the Derby is going to make it very hard to forgive him. We MUST get to the final, and then hopefully win it.
Let's not get carried away over Moyes just yet.
Yes, we have beaten Swansea and Sunderland but we have to beat Redshite and then Chelski or Spurs to make the season worth something after many poor games.
Moyes will undoubtedly rest many players between now and April 14th. as will Dalglish.
The best thing to come out of last night's game was the emergence of Gueye.
This lad finally showed what he is about and I for one think he is only going to get better.
Chances are that he may not start against Redshite but he will be on Saturday along with Pienaar who may be switched to the right. Cahill may also be rested after his big bruising.
I have always said that having a positive attitude and the confidence to take the game to the opposition from the off will pay dividends and so it proved yesterday.
The safety first mentality only serves to encourage the opposition to think they are a better team and that is why we have thrown many points away against lower teams this season.
Yes, we have beaten Swansea and Sunderland but we have to beat Redshite and then Chelski or Spurs to make the season worth something after many poor games.
Moyes will undoubtedly rest many players between now and April 14th. as will Dalglish.
The best thing to come out of last night's game was the emergence of Gueye.
This lad finally showed what he is about and I for one think he is only going to get better.
Chances are that he may not start against Redshite but he will be on Saturday along with Pienaar who may be switched to the right. Cahill may also be rested after his big bruising.
I have always said that having a positive attitude and the confidence to take the game to the opposition from the off will pay dividends and so it proved yesterday.
The safety first mentality only serves to encourage the opposition to think they are a better team and that is why we have thrown many points away against lower teams this season.
Aiden - thanks for the clarification. I'm sure you are right about what Moyes would do if Fellaini's participation was threatened.
Mind you, there's always the chance that the FA might change the rules as LRS are involved - but that could never happen, surely!
Mind you, there's always the chance that the FA might change the rules as LRS are involved - but that could never happen, surely!
Another question for me, is do you play Pienaar in the league who can't play in the cup - or do you give Gueye a chance to build up some match practice and some time to work on his link up with Baines and the rest of the team?
Or do we put him back in his box, and only roll out our secret weapon again on the 14th?
Excellent though Pienaar has been since his return, the Cup must now be our priority, and therefore, I think that Gueye should be starting against West Brom.
Then there's Drenthe to consider too. I think this is a tricky one for Moyes.
Or do we put him back in his box, and only roll out our secret weapon again on the 14th?
Excellent though Pienaar has been since his return, the Cup must now be our priority, and therefore, I think that Gueye should be starting against West Brom.
Then there's Drenthe to consider too. I think this is a tricky one for Moyes.
Nick -
I appreciate your synopsis of long term vision. But frankly the derby capitulation is a cardinal sin.
If you "rest" the "A" team do it against Arsenal.
You simply must try to win against the Shite without reservation. That terrible game will stick in my craw for a long time to come, no matter how we fair in the Cup....
Spurs strong, Shite strong, Sunderland strong, Arsenal weak, Swansea weak(ish), Sunderland strong.
You have to give it a go against the Shite.
That having said still over the moon with the last two games, so maybe he's got it right?
Time will tell, but unforgivable to capitulate against the Shite!
I appreciate your synopsis of long term vision. But frankly the derby capitulation is a cardinal sin.
If you "rest" the "A" team do it against Arsenal.
You simply must try to win against the Shite without reservation. That terrible game will stick in my craw for a long time to come, no matter how we fair in the Cup....
Spurs strong, Shite strong, Sunderland strong, Arsenal weak, Swansea weak(ish), Sunderland strong.
You have to give it a go against the Shite.
That having said still over the moon with the last two games, so maybe he's got it right?
Time will tell, but unforgivable to capitulate against the Shite!
No, unforgivable to surrender the derby!
Frankly, didnt understand all the fuss about the derby... Its the manager's team, its his call who plays and how.. He choose the FA over the derby - so get over it.. Happens, his choice... And regarding the "That idiot always plays his favourites" rant, well he didnt play the horrible Osman, Neville and Cahill - who TWers claim have so many compromising photos that he insists on playing them.. So he tinkered with his side- actually played a 4-4-2, wasnt the best striker combination, but apart from Jelavic he doesnt have much choice.. The tinkering didnt work, shit happens.. Relax..
The claims he capitulated, surrendered, purposely lost or doesnt give much bout history are simply laughable..
Get over it..
The claims he capitulated, surrendered, purposely lost or doesnt give much bout history are simply laughable..
Get over it..
Varun You don't understand the fuss about the derby!!!!
Meant to add you better take cover.
Davey is nothing but pragmatic and NOTHING will deflect him from that approach.
In pure results terms,he has been proved right but to be seen to sacrifice a derby? Not so sure about that one.
I wonder what `The Greatest Evertonian in the World`thought at the time?
In pure results terms,he has been proved right but to be seen to sacrifice a derby? Not so sure about that one.
I wonder what `The Greatest Evertonian in the World`thought at the time?
Varun is right to some degree. I wouldnt have broken up the central defensive partnership against the shite, but its not like we sent out our youth team.
Only winning the first game against Sunderland would have even come close to vindicating his derby decision. He didnt get the result in the game that he rested the players for. He cant be vindicated for a decision he made 2 weeks and 3 games ago. Im glad he eventually got us through, but it had nothing to do with the derby game.
I think Eugene (422) has got it nailed: we win the cup and that team selection will be forgiven him... especially as we'll have had to beat them on the way to the trophy.
People make mistakes, the players he sent out in the Derby kind of let him down, i still think what we put out was good enough to beat a very very poor Liverpool team but they didnt and of course Moyes was going to get the blame.
But he now has the perfect chance to put it all right get to the Final and win his first trophy, and if that happens i for one wouldnt give two shits about that Derby.
If Fellaini gets one more yellow card in any of the games we have before the Semi i would take him off straight away and not play him again until that match! We want our 1st 11 ready and fit to put Liverpool in their place on 14th April.
But he now has the perfect chance to put it all right get to the Final and win his first trophy, and if that happens i for one wouldnt give two shits about that Derby.
If Fellaini gets one more yellow card in any of the games we have before the Semi i would take him off straight away and not play him again until that match! We want our 1st 11 ready and fit to put Liverpool in their place on 14th April.
If Moyes had come out after the game and explained his decision and appologised for getting it wrong, I could have understood it. But he didn't, he patronised us by telling us that we should just be happy with the 3 points against Spurs.
I will never forget this but I will stop being angry about it if we win the cup.
As a silver lining to the Derby disaster, everyone at Everton will want to set the record straight, including Moyes who will have known how the fans felt about what he did. I think the defeat could give us an extra little edge in the Semi.
I will never forget this but I will stop being angry about it if we win the cup.
As a silver lining to the Derby disaster, everyone at Everton will want to set the record straight, including Moyes who will have known how the fans felt about what he did. I think the defeat could give us an extra little edge in the Semi.
The thing about resting players is they don't always show fatigue when you want or expect it.
They do all kinds of tests on players to give a manager an idea of their conditioning. Someone showing signs of fatigue is likely to perform worse and is at heightened risk of injury.
It easy to say I'd play 3 times a week for 50 grand etc. and they probably could. But they wouldn't do it to a standard that would see us win and they would be picking up injuries left, right and centre.
The extra few percent that was left in the legs of the players who sat out the derby may be what helped us put such a good performance in at Sunderland. We were crisp with our passing, first to every tackle and were still strong in the final minutes. They looked lethargic all game.
It may have been a coincidence but it may have got us to Wembley.
His attitude after the match is another discussion altogether.
They do all kinds of tests on players to give a manager an idea of their conditioning. Someone showing signs of fatigue is likely to perform worse and is at heightened risk of injury.
It easy to say I'd play 3 times a week for 50 grand etc. and they probably could. But they wouldn't do it to a standard that would see us win and they would be picking up injuries left, right and centre.
The extra few percent that was left in the legs of the players who sat out the derby may be what helped us put such a good performance in at Sunderland. We were crisp with our passing, first to every tackle and were still strong in the final minutes. They looked lethargic all game.
It may have been a coincidence but it may have got us to Wembley.
His attitude after the match is another discussion altogether.
As an ex Celtic player Moyes resting of players for the ANfield derby is even more puzzling.
If Wenger/Redknapp or Pardew had rested players for the derby they would be sacked by now.
Personally one good win against Sunderland will NEVER remove the stain against Moyes for that white flag surrender at ANfield.
After all that 10 yr bollocks build up Moyes knows he needs a trophy. His resting of Players shows that hes in it for himself and him only.
Personally I will never ever forgive him.
If Wenger/Redknapp or Pardew had rested players for the derby they would be sacked by now.
Personally one good win against Sunderland will NEVER remove the stain against Moyes for that white flag surrender at ANfield.
After all that 10 yr bollocks build up Moyes knows he needs a trophy. His resting of Players shows that hes in it for himself and him only.
Personally I will never ever forgive him.
No.
I will let him off if we muller the R.S by two goals or more.
Just get the feeling we will do it to the deludes this time.
Hope it is not an early kick-off.
I will let him off if we muller the R.S by two goals or more.
Just get the feeling we will do it to the deludes this time.
Hope it is not an early kick-off.
Varun you say..
"Frankly, didnt understand all the fuss about the derby... Its the manager's team, its his call who plays and how.."
Well it is certainly his call who plays and how, but it is OUR club and THAT explains why the fuss about the derby.
"Frankly, didnt understand all the fuss about the derby... Its the manager's team, its his call who plays and how.."
Well it is certainly his call who plays and how, but it is OUR club and THAT explains why the fuss about the derby.
Can't be vindicated as it was a daft decision but I have moved on and the Derby will be forgotten, as it wasn't a good game and the difference was a thug with no forehead....that's it.
It won't be rememered up there with teh Rush 4 goals or the Carsley derby, so pah!
It won't be rememered up there with teh Rush 4 goals or the Carsley derby, so pah!
For someone with a press reputation for honesty, Our Davey does dissemble a bit as the politicians like to say!
It's the Gerrard hat-trick that pisses everyone off more so than losing the derby. Moyes needs to bury the Shite once and for all.
Every Derby match is important at the time and more often than not there is some controversy only this time Moyes was the culprit. It will be forgotten on April 14th.or by the time next season rolls around.
Sure I get upset at the results like everyone else and this one was even more galling because basically Moyes surrendered it to them. We should be used to the things Crazy Dave does by now.
Two good away victories should put them in a good frame of mind for the Redshite but I would prefer to start Drenthe who has the speed and power to put the shakes under them early on.
Sure I get upset at the results like everyone else and this one was even more galling because basically Moyes surrendered it to them. We should be used to the things Crazy Dave does by now.
Two good away victories should put them in a good frame of mind for the Redshite but I would prefer to start Drenthe who has the speed and power to put the shakes under them early on.
Has he fuck been vindicated for March 13th My locker in work is testament to that and anyone wanting to go and have a look is welcome to... I'll be 53 in July and that was one of the worst nights of my life. It took me days to get my shit back together and don't forget I was there at Maine Road 84 and Wembley 86 and 89 so that's saying something. No, I'll never forgive him for that. Seeing my young son crying broke my heart... so I'm afraid it's a 'No' from this household.
I don't think Moyes has been vindicated.
Maybe beating Liverpool would justify his decisions as there is a chance of Europe with the runner's up spot seeing as we've made qualifying through the league very difficult but it still doesn't feel right.
Maybe i'm being a bit harsh,but you should allways stick with your strongest team for a derby.
I couldn't see Ferguson ever putting a weak team out against Man City.
We're going to Wembley but i don't think it is due to any decissions made before the derby.
Maybe beating Liverpool would justify his decisions as there is a chance of Europe with the runner's up spot seeing as we've made qualifying through the league very difficult but it still doesn't feel right.
Maybe i'm being a bit harsh,but you should allways stick with your strongest team for a derby.
I couldn't see Ferguson ever putting a weak team out against Man City.
We're going to Wembley but i don't think it is due to any decissions made before the derby.
No he hasn't been vindicated.
It's just opinions, but in mine, he massively underestimated how important the local derby is to supporters (even those Reds who are actually from Liverpool).
I can take getting beat if we lose to great play from them, bad luck for us, dodgy refereeing etc. I can't take getting beat cos we threw the match.
And I don't think Moyes will change. Even though he's never do that if he was manager of Celtic as he understands their fans, he'll continue to bask in the mediocrity of Everton, buoyed by the low expectations of his Chairman and the majority of fans, the eulogising of a media that in reality gives not two fucks about us, and he'll do it again.
At worst, he's indignant about the reaction "amongst a section of fans" (c) all pundits. Get over it Davey. We gave you the bird once before after a pathetic capitulation at home v Tottenham, and we'll do it again.
It's just opinions, but in mine, he massively underestimated how important the local derby is to supporters (even those Reds who are actually from Liverpool).
I can take getting beat if we lose to great play from them, bad luck for us, dodgy refereeing etc. I can't take getting beat cos we threw the match.
And I don't think Moyes will change. Even though he's never do that if he was manager of Celtic as he understands their fans, he'll continue to bask in the mediocrity of Everton, buoyed by the low expectations of his Chairman and the majority of fans, the eulogising of a media that in reality gives not two fucks about us, and he'll do it again.
At worst, he's indignant about the reaction "amongst a section of fans" (c) all pundits. Get over it Davey. We gave you the bird once before after a pathetic capitulation at home v Tottenham, and we'll do it again.
I know its easy for me to say - its just the derby - I sit in Mumbai, and have a few RS friends thats about it...
But still a loss, any loss hurts - maybe the derby a little bit extra..
But finally, the Merseyside derby is currently between two mid-table teams (for varying reasons).. Its not as imp as it used to be - definitely nowhere near as meaningful..
So if I were Moyes, having done everything in footy but win a cup - I would focus on the chance to win something.. And isnt that what a lot of TWers complain - he is shit till he wins us something.. Now when he takes the call on that (and frankly with our squad, he needs to take that call) - we call it cowardice etc.. Seems a little funny to me.. For me Everton has to be about winning trophies first and then dealing with the RS a distant second!! He did something that in his opinion increases our chance of a title - hats off to his guts!!!
But still a loss, any loss hurts - maybe the derby a little bit extra..
But finally, the Merseyside derby is currently between two mid-table teams (for varying reasons).. Its not as imp as it used to be - definitely nowhere near as meaningful..
So if I were Moyes, having done everything in footy but win a cup - I would focus on the chance to win something.. And isnt that what a lot of TWers complain - he is shit till he wins us something.. Now when he takes the call on that (and frankly with our squad, he needs to take that call) - we call it cowardice etc.. Seems a little funny to me.. For me Everton has to be about winning trophies first and then dealing with the RS a distant second!! He did something that in his opinion increases our chance of a title - hats off to his guts!!!
Vindication? We'll never know.
Forgiven?
To be continued.
Forgiven?
To be continued.
Varun Rajwade 621
You are probably right. The major problem is that the derby evokes emotion, which can only be satisfied with victory over the arch enemy. Its a heart ruling the head thing, unlike your veiw which shows the head ruling. It may be right, but it does not feel that way, until next time. Hopefully revenge will be all the sweeter.
Barry, forgiven? Not lightly!! The cup coming home to Goodison would be a start, playing like we have in our last two victories would also help.
You are probably right. The major problem is that the derby evokes emotion, which can only be satisfied with victory over the arch enemy. Its a heart ruling the head thing, unlike your veiw which shows the head ruling. It may be right, but it does not feel that way, until next time. Hopefully revenge will be all the sweeter.
Barry, forgiven? Not lightly!! The cup coming home to Goodison would be a start, playing like we have in our last two victories would also help.
If we beat them comfortably and soundly in the semi, but go on to lose the final i´m good.
If we edge them in the semi-final and go on to win the cup, i´m good.
Otherwise, THAT game takes made me absolutely miserable....
If we edge them in the semi-final and go on to win the cup, i´m good.
Otherwise, THAT game takes made me absolutely miserable....
As someone who has watched derby's since 1951, I felt angry at first about the changes and defeat but, in hindsight, they (the RS) know ? and I know ? it was a HOLLOW win, so I can look all my rednose mates in the eye.
COYB.
COYB.
I don't know where that performance came from. Gibson and Jelavic are obviously great signings. Credit were it's due: Heitinga, who I had discarded, simply oozes class. Moyes has made some really shit signings but his overall record is up there with anybody's.
Playing the Shite with confidence and that arrogance of "we're not going to lose" is a whole different story. Derby line-up was wrong ? Anichebe who is shite and never been fit; Jags who wasn't match fit ? just wasn't on. I didn't mind him resting players but surely you've got to keep the spine of team against the shite???
Playing the Shite with confidence and that arrogance of "we're not going to lose" is a whole different story. Derby line-up was wrong ? Anichebe who is shite and never been fit; Jags who wasn't match fit ? just wasn't on. I didn't mind him resting players but surely you've got to keep the spine of team against the shite???
Like every blue I was pissed of getting tonked by the RS, and cursed Moyess' team, but in the cold light of day, it wasn't the selection, it was simply that the team didn't perform and as someone pointed out, he didn't put the kids out.
Just to remind everyone of the team it was:
Howard
Hibbert Jagielka Distin Bains
Coleman Fellaini Rodwell Pienaar
Stracqualursi Anichibe
Firstly it was 4-4-2, which all and sundry have been screaming for, and secondly,it was practically the first team, the only surprise inclusion being Anichibe, but collectively the team has god knows how many EPL appearances between, and they should have turned in a better performance than that.
Just to remind everyone of the team it was:
Howard
Hibbert Jagielka Distin Bains
Coleman Fellaini Rodwell Pienaar
Stracqualursi Anichibe
Firstly it was 4-4-2, which all and sundry have been screaming for, and secondly,it was practically the first team, the only surprise inclusion being Anichibe, but collectively the team has god knows how many EPL appearances between, and they should have turned in a better performance than that.
I don't think he was vindicated after the Sunderland game, good performance though it was.
We're in the semi final - OK but that's exactly where we should be given the 4 draws we've had in the cup this year:- HOME every time- to: Tamworth, Fulham, Blackpool and Sunderland.
As others have said, only winning the cup will do (after the luck of the draw clearly went our way).Nothing else could actually be considered progress, especially after 10 years.
As for the derby, I still feel let down..
We're in the semi final - OK but that's exactly where we should be given the 4 draws we've had in the cup this year:- HOME every time- to: Tamworth, Fulham, Blackpool and Sunderland.
As others have said, only winning the cup will do (after the luck of the draw clearly went our way).Nothing else could actually be considered progress, especially after 10 years.
As for the derby, I still feel let down..
David(668).
That team on paper looks like a weak one to me, taking the squad into consideration. But when you also take into account that FOUR of the outfield 10 were coming back from lengthy injuries, it puts more perspective on it.
And for those of you who had 'written off' Heitinga, I would just point out that he is now being played in his rightful position, rather than in midfield. As such, we are seeing what a player he is.
With the Gibson/Fellaini partnership starting to blossom, Moyes now has the chance to play some progressive, offensive football till the end of the season. I hope he does, and keeps Neville out of the midfield and limits Hibbert to occasional cameos like Tuesday night.
My main issue with Moyes has always been his use of the players at his disposal. IMO this is what causes our poor starts to the season, he cant pick his best side from a full squad.
That team on paper looks like a weak one to me, taking the squad into consideration. But when you also take into account that FOUR of the outfield 10 were coming back from lengthy injuries, it puts more perspective on it.
And for those of you who had 'written off' Heitinga, I would just point out that he is now being played in his rightful position, rather than in midfield. As such, we are seeing what a player he is.
With the Gibson/Fellaini partnership starting to blossom, Moyes now has the chance to play some progressive, offensive football till the end of the season. I hope he does, and keeps Neville out of the midfield and limits Hibbert to occasional cameos like Tuesday night.
My main issue with Moyes has always been his use of the players at his disposal. IMO this is what causes our poor starts to the season, he cant pick his best side from a full squad.
No - for all the reasons of history and tradition and importance to fans, etc.
However
The sun has been shining all week and I'm still buzzing from the Sunderland display so I'm going to throw a positive light on that derby display - yeah I said it -'a positive light'.
Maybe there was method to the Moyes madness, maybe now Liverpool have shown their hand, unzipped their fly, call it what you will. We know EXACTLY what that shower of shite are going to throw at us, while that Glaswegian wino isn't going to have a fucking clue which Everton is going to turn up.
Reading Gibson's comments about preparation for the Sunderland game fills me with overwhelming hope.
http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11671/7633412/Gibson-fires-warning-to-Reds
We're gonna humiliate them at Wembley - mark my words! ( Then vindication will be achieved )
However
The sun has been shining all week and I'm still buzzing from the Sunderland display so I'm going to throw a positive light on that derby display - yeah I said it -'a positive light'.
Maybe there was method to the Moyes madness, maybe now Liverpool have shown their hand, unzipped their fly, call it what you will. We know EXACTLY what that shower of shite are going to throw at us, while that Glaswegian wino isn't going to have a fucking clue which Everton is going to turn up.
Reading Gibson's comments about preparation for the Sunderland game fills me with overwhelming hope.
http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11671/7633412/Gibson-fires-warning-to-Reds
We're gonna humiliate them at Wembley - mark my words! ( Then vindication will be achieved )
No. Absolutely not !
Resting players for the Derby was a disgrace then and it still is.
The Arsenal game was the game to look at players and then if he felt things needed changing that was it.
Jamie Crowley is spot on.
Resting players for the Derby was a disgrace then and it still is.
The Arsenal game was the game to look at players and then if he felt things needed changing that was it.
Jamie Crowley is spot on.
No, he hasn't been vindicated and never will be as far as I'm concerned. March 13th was a dark day in Moyes's tenure.
Don't forget, we were on a great run, they weren't and we had a chance to lord it over them smug horrible bastards. But no, our erstwhile manager decided to dry bum us all with that disastrous team selection I'm still cleaning graffiti off my locker in work because of that night. And seeing my young son crying that night broke my heart.
So, in this household, it's a 'No!'
Don't forget, we were on a great run, they weren't and we had a chance to lord it over them smug horrible bastards. But no, our erstwhile manager decided to dry bum us all with that disastrous team selection I'm still cleaning graffiti off my locker in work because of that night. And seeing my young son crying that night broke my heart.
So, in this household, it's a 'No!'
I have to say I'm in the Varun camp here. Completely agree.
If we had beaten Liverpool, drawn to Sunderland at home and then lost the replay, where would we be? No feel good factor, season pretty much over, no trip to Wembley, and all there would be to look forward to is the hope that Moyes plays a couple of kids in the run in and our annual tonking at Old Trafford.
The derby was just horrible to watch, unbearable in fact, but the nature of the derby in the league is such that you play the game twice a season, feel great or rubbish afterwards depending on the result, look forward to the next one and then move on to the next match. I would take a trip to Wembley and potential silverware (which is now within our grasp and a real possibility) any day of the week
It?s also true that Moyes didn?t field a weak team, the players let him down big time.
To answer the original question, does Moyes need to be vindicated, absolutely not. His achievements in the past 10 years have been greater than what any other manager could achieve on his budget and constraints. Let?s hope we can finally win a trophy to be the icing on the cake.
If we had beaten Liverpool, drawn to Sunderland at home and then lost the replay, where would we be? No feel good factor, season pretty much over, no trip to Wembley, and all there would be to look forward to is the hope that Moyes plays a couple of kids in the run in and our annual tonking at Old Trafford.
The derby was just horrible to watch, unbearable in fact, but the nature of the derby in the league is such that you play the game twice a season, feel great or rubbish afterwards depending on the result, look forward to the next one and then move on to the next match. I would take a trip to Wembley and potential silverware (which is now within our grasp and a real possibility) any day of the week
It?s also true that Moyes didn?t field a weak team, the players let him down big time.
To answer the original question, does Moyes need to be vindicated, absolutely not. His achievements in the past 10 years have been greater than what any other manager could achieve on his budget and constraints. Let?s hope we can finally win a trophy to be the icing on the cake.
Moyes knows what he is doing lads, we're gonna stuff Liverpool on the 14th. You only have to look at Moyes's great record against the redshite these last ten years, he's Brian Clough reincarnated, what a tactician....
This love-in is vomit inducing. On the 14th of April, they will get every decision, every break of the ball, they will cheat, dive, gurn to the ref, the dinner lady will probably score another hat-trick.
Add to this the fact that Moyes wouldn't want to upset his icon Dogleash... it's time to wake up lads semi final day is going to be painful ? for all blues.
This love-in is vomit inducing. On the 14th of April, they will get every decision, every break of the ball, they will cheat, dive, gurn to the ref, the dinner lady will probably score another hat-trick.
Add to this the fact that Moyes wouldn't want to upset his icon Dogleash... it's time to wake up lads semi final day is going to be painful ? for all blues.
I think the fixture v Sunderland just 5 days before the Semi will be when Moyes gives the benchwarmers a run out, otherwise injury/ bookings could dominate that game!
Henry,
"To answer the original question, does Moyes need to be vindicated, absolutely not. His achievements in the past 10 years have been greater than what any other manager could achieve on his budget and constraints. Let?s hope we can finally win a trophy to be the icing on the cake."
Lots of people say that about Moyes, but in reality, it is hypothetical. None of us know how anyone else would do with the resources available to Moyes. You could argue that he has done better than previous Everton managers, because Moyes himself has had access to more (world class training complex, massive wage budget etc.). What could Walter Smith have achieved for example, given the same?
"To answer the original question, does Moyes need to be vindicated, absolutely not. His achievements in the past 10 years have been greater than what any other manager could achieve on his budget and constraints. Let?s hope we can finally win a trophy to be the icing on the cake."
Lots of people say that about Moyes, but in reality, it is hypothetical. None of us know how anyone else would do with the resources available to Moyes. You could argue that he has done better than previous Everton managers, because Moyes himself has had access to more (world class training complex, massive wage budget etc.). What could Walter Smith have achieved for example, given the same?
I think that gearing EVERYTHING towards the FA Cup semi-final would be a mistake as it will place even more pressure on the team and that has been something that we have not traditionally done well under.
Of course we must be wary of yellow cards and over playing players etc but there must be a balance. We cannot just cast the league aside especially as league form and confidence will play a part; in many ways our performance vs Sunderland was built on the foundation of the second half at Swansea. To lose momentum by concentrating everything on the cup would be detrimental.
Of course we must be wary of yellow cards and over playing players etc but there must be a balance. We cannot just cast the league aside especially as league form and confidence will play a part; in many ways our performance vs Sunderland was built on the foundation of the second half at Swansea. To lose momentum by concentrating everything on the cup would be detrimental.
Bit of a bum squeaker, those yellow cards of Fellaini`s, is it 3 games he misses after 10 yellows?
If it was just one game, I would say kick someone tomorrow and get it over with. Absolutely imperative that he plays against the RS!
But, am I the only one who thinks our most important player for the mo is Johnny Heitinga? I think he has been superb at the back, pity Jags isnt a better right back really!
If it was just one game, I would say kick someone tomorrow and get it over with. Absolutely imperative that he plays against the RS!
But, am I the only one who thinks our most important player for the mo is Johnny Heitinga? I think he has been superb at the back, pity Jags isnt a better right back really!
Two matches, Tony. Three matches if he somehow makes it to fifteen yellows before the end of the season.
In the greater scheme of things, a derby loss at Anfield, whilst sickening at the time, will pale in comparison to an FA Cup Semi-Final win against that lot and decent end to the league where we may well finish above them.
I was gutted with the teamsheet at the time but Moyes is always pragmatic and looks at the long-term picture. Final vindication will hopefully come end of season with a trophy in the cabinet but, either way, tough decisions sometimes need to be made.
I was gutted with the teamsheet at the time but Moyes is always pragmatic and looks at the long-term picture. Final vindication will hopefully come end of season with a trophy in the cabinet but, either way, tough decisions sometimes need to be made.
Vindication and forgiveness???
No not a fucking chance, the derby result and his attitude afterwards disgusted me then and still does.
Win the cup then fuck off to Spurs.
No not a fucking chance, the derby result and his attitude afterwards disgusted me then and still does.
Win the cup then fuck off to Spurs.
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392 Posted 28/03/2012 at 20:58:07
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Let's get West Brom.
COYB!