Season 2011-12
The Mail Bag
What if?
67 Comments: It's a bad time to moan, I'll admit. David Moyes has turned it round yet again. Cup semi, above Liverpool in the league, playing some good football; even I have been feeling good about it. A summer of expectation awaits; Champions League talk will surface again.
We really, really are easily calmed down. No doubt the new signings galvanised things and those (myself included) who fretted about relegation have been made to look foolish. In my view, though, the first half of the season cannot be forgotten. As a one-off, it would have been truly dreadful but, as a regular occurrence under David Moyes, surely it needs to be looked at. We are below the position in the league that we should be in and if the recovery brings plaudits to David Moyes then the fact that every year a recovery is necessary is entirely down to him.
It is asked quite often where the critics of Moyes go when the team does well. I think that this is the time to speak up. I love what we are doing now but I don't think it is unreasonable to question what goes wrong every pre-season and to hope that this is not another false dawn.
Before Christmas, I thought that our players simply weren't good enough. Well, they are now... Why?
Andy Crooks, Posted 04/04/2012 at 23:04:25
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Why are they good enough now???? Because he was able to add Donovan and Gibson to begin January. Then when Donovan left, was able to bring back Pienaar and add Jelavic. What do you notice about these players? When they are all fit or available, they all play.
At the beginning of the season, we had rumours about Jagielka being transferred, which the player admitted had a negative effect on his form. And we lost Arteta, our key midfield player. We had Saha out of form as a striker with nobody really able to fill in for him, as Straq was new from Argentina and way out of his depth. The team improved because Moyes had better players to choose from. Drenthe has gotten better, our injury list has improved, and we actually brought in some very good players in January. Other teams like Newcastle were able to do so in the Summer, we were not.
Everton have a lot of unrest due to our financial situation during the Summer. It's no surprise it has an effect on the play to start. I doubted him, and don't worship the guy by any means, but Moyes deserves a hell of a lot of credit for the way he has handled this season. One thing you can say about the man is that he does not quit and does not allow his team to quit. Now bring home the FA Cup.
At the beginning of the season, we had rumours about Jagielka being transferred, which the player admitted had a negative effect on his form. And we lost Arteta, our key midfield player. We had Saha out of form as a striker with nobody really able to fill in for him, as Straq was new from Argentina and way out of his depth. The team improved because Moyes had better players to choose from. Drenthe has gotten better, our injury list has improved, and we actually brought in some very good players in January. Other teams like Newcastle were able to do so in the Summer, we were not.
Everton have a lot of unrest due to our financial situation during the Summer. It's no surprise it has an effect on the play to start. I doubted him, and don't worship the guy by any means, but Moyes deserves a hell of a lot of credit for the way he has handled this season. One thing you can say about the man is that he does not quit and does not allow his team to quit. Now bring home the FA Cup.
"We had Saha out of form as a striker" who 1 week after he left us suddenly found his form and started banging them in.
"Everton have a lot of unrest due to our financial situation during the Summer. It's no surprise it has an effect on the play to start." But as Andy pointed out, we have the same bad start EVERY season. Always for the same reason?
And in previous seasons we've not had a Drenthe or Gibson or Pienaar or Jelavic or Stracqualarsi join us and only once had a Donovan. What went right in all those previous seasons?
"Everton have a lot of unrest due to our financial situation during the Summer. It's no surprise it has an effect on the play to start." But as Andy pointed out, we have the same bad start EVERY season. Always for the same reason?
And in previous seasons we've not had a Drenthe or Gibson or Pienaar or Jelavic or Stracqualarsi join us and only once had a Donovan. What went right in all those previous seasons?
These cakes are shit... said the customer at the bakery. They're stodgy, tasteless and they don't look very nice.
The baker came to the front of the shop
"Well, what do you bleedin expect... he (pointing to the shop owner) he, won't let me have any of the basic ingredients - no sugar, the most crap flour you can imagine... and the oven is fucked... It's getting so bad I can't be arsed in the Kitchen any more"
The owner of the shop shook his head
"All that costs money - and as you know I'm skint"
"Well, sell the frigging shop then, to someone who has the money to buy decent ingredients - and don't give me that crap about 'I'm trying 24/7... or I'm not buying any more of these awful cakes" Said the customer
The owner thought about things for a while as he could see his loyal customers drifting away and then picked up a telephone...
"Let me see what I can do"
Three weeks later after the most basic of ingredients essential for cake making had been delivered and given to the baker, some decent cakes began to be made - the baker looked interested again, the owner sat back and congratulated himself - the customer stopped moaning...
The moral of the story - you can't make cakes without sugar - you can't win football matches without decent midfielders, genuinely exciting wide men and a striker or two who look like they actually give a fuck.
The baker came to the front of the shop
"Well, what do you bleedin expect... he (pointing to the shop owner) he, won't let me have any of the basic ingredients - no sugar, the most crap flour you can imagine... and the oven is fucked... It's getting so bad I can't be arsed in the Kitchen any more"
The owner of the shop shook his head
"All that costs money - and as you know I'm skint"
"Well, sell the frigging shop then, to someone who has the money to buy decent ingredients - and don't give me that crap about 'I'm trying 24/7... or I'm not buying any more of these awful cakes" Said the customer
The owner thought about things for a while as he could see his loyal customers drifting away and then picked up a telephone...
"Let me see what I can do"
Three weeks later after the most basic of ingredients essential for cake making had been delivered and given to the baker, some decent cakes began to be made - the baker looked interested again, the owner sat back and congratulated himself - the customer stopped moaning...
The moral of the story - you can't make cakes without sugar - you can't win football matches without decent midfielders, genuinely exciting wide men and a striker or two who look like they actually give a fuck.
Can I ask Andy, you say we are below the position we should be in - so what position do you believe we should be in? I'm a realist, so 7th is about right for me. The only team above us I would have expected to be ahead of at this stage would be Newcastle, but by the same token, I didn't really expect us to be ahead of Liverpool.
Nice one,Kevin but I somehow think that with Greggs about its somewhat easier to sell a bakers shop than EFC.
I love the Club dearly but knowing what we do (and that ain`t much!) what monied fool would want to buy all our debt and outdated venue-let alone pay more than pasty price for Blue Bill`s shares?
I love the Club dearly but knowing what we do (and that ain`t much!) what monied fool would want to buy all our debt and outdated venue-let alone pay more than pasty price for Blue Bill`s shares?
And there you have the crux of the issue Richard, the board want someone to pay off their debt AND pay them over the odds for their shares.
It's like you selling your house and the market value is £100,000 but you want £150,000 for it and because you still have a £50,000 mortgage on it you want the buyer to pay off the debt also!
It's like you selling your house and the market value is £100,000 but you want £150,000 for it and because you still have a £50,000 mortgage on it you want the buyer to pay off the debt also!
Kevin, so prospective buyer A asks the owner what he wants for his shop, bearing in mind the shop itself needs renovating or pulling down and starting again. after much hoo haring it becomes apparent that the owner does not actually want to sell, and if he does it will be for at least double its actual value.... putting buyer A, B C and finally D right off the whole idea. I fact buyer A waas heard muttering under his breath as he left the premises that the current encumbant is a self deluded egotist who in his heart of hearts hasnt got a clue what is best for the shop....
GJ, I think what he means is that if we can get to 7th after a shocking first few months (again), then where would we be if we could play from august? The plaudits come thick and fast for Moyes come this time, but never see any slating, apart from coming from fans, of the consistantly bad starts, with often the exact same tools. I could be described as one of the so called 'Moyes Out Brigade', but when he gets the team at least looking like they are going on the pitch to beat their opponents, then I have no issue with him, but to me, this is too rare. The game coming up against Man U at OT for example, I would love to see us have a go, but admittedly we would likely get beaten, but to go there, have 11 behind the ball, barely have an effort on goal, and still limp to the inevitable 1 or 2 nil defeat is much worse imo.
I just want the recent results, the 2-0 away at Swansea, the 2-0 cruise at home to West Brom, I want us to at least play with that intent from early August.
I just want the recent results, the 2-0 away at Swansea, the 2-0 cruise at home to West Brom, I want us to at least play with that intent from early August.
I think it all boils down to a lack of movement on the transfer front in the summer transfer window. The last time I can remember starting well is when we added Johnson Howard and Lescott early doors. I think this summer Moyes has to show he is a bit more pro-active and try and sell someone early enough to generate funds. I can understand a couple of years ago that he wanted to keep the then current squad together after we finished well again, but by doing that, no player was sold (usually 'til the last day of the window!), no cash was generated, no money forthcoming from the board (suprisingly!!!), no fresh faces arrived so there was a lack of competition for places in the team, a lack of enthusiasm from the fans and the whole place went a bit stale.
This summer, if we can move someone on a bit quicker and use the money for a couple of hungry players, we may all get the good start to the season we are all hoping for.
This summer, if we can move someone on a bit quicker and use the money for a couple of hungry players, we may all get the good start to the season we are all hoping for.
What if we all went to the first home game dressed as Father Christmas? We`d probably lose but from then on it would all be win,win,win!
Worth a try!
Worth a try!
Steve, why wouldn't buyer A, B, C or D make public their wish to buy Everton through the media? Surely they would have done their research, seen that there is discontent between current owners and it's main customer base, and use that to try and get what they want? If indeed, it is only BK's over inflated valuation which is causing the issue? Could be one of these absolutely inpenetrable 'confidentiality agreements' that we hear alot about? Ryan Giggs and John Terry should use Evertons lawyers, because they cant half keep peoples mouths shut.
That would be a good laugh, Richard. All turn up to our fist home game wearing blue santa hats and beards. The joke probably wouldnt be lost on many neither.
How many alleged false dawns need to happen before it is called a dawn?
We are what we are, a half decent side who someone forget how to play for the first couple of months and somehow manage to galvanise in the Winter months.
Pehaps the training is right because we always seem to finish well so the stamina is definitely there....the problem is that it seems to sap all the energy for the start of the season.
A nice medium...and I don't mean Patricia Arquette,,, wouled be preferable.
We are what we are, a half decent side who someone forget how to play for the first couple of months and somehow manage to galvanise in the Winter months.
Pehaps the training is right because we always seem to finish well so the stamina is definitely there....the problem is that it seems to sap all the energy for the start of the season.
A nice medium...and I don't mean Patricia Arquette,,, wouled be preferable.
Nice one Kevin, I enjoyed the analogy. However don't forget to mention the bakers across the road who have recently been sold. The new owners trusted the baker to buy all the ingredients himself and gave him a pot of money to buy the best stuff. Sadly the old baker believed that he was still the king of baking and wasted the money paying top price for inferior ingredients. Some of his customers noticed how crap the new cakes were an started squealing that they deserved better cakes as it was there divine right to eat good cakes.
But other customers who had been going to that bakers for years wouldn't hear a bad word against the king baker and demanded that the owners gave him more money. They blamed the previous owners, they blamed, the new owners, they blamed the local newspapers for poor advertising, they blamed the new ingredients, they blamed the baker across the road, in fact they blamed everybody except the king baker!
And the moral of this story? Well there isn't one really, I just wanted to say how much I am enjoying the demise of the bakers across the road.
But other customers who had been going to that bakers for years wouldn't hear a bad word against the king baker and demanded that the owners gave him more money. They blamed the previous owners, they blamed, the new owners, they blamed the local newspapers for poor advertising, they blamed the new ingredients, they blamed the baker across the road, in fact they blamed everybody except the king baker!
And the moral of this story? Well there isn't one really, I just wanted to say how much I am enjoying the demise of the bakers across the road.
Most of the players 'available' have always been good enough..
The manager is the problem. He is fairly inconsistent with his management skills.
At least if he was shite all the time, we'd know he wasn't failing to achieve his potential.
That's the rub.
The manager is the problem. He is fairly inconsistent with his management skills.
At least if he was shite all the time, we'd know he wasn't failing to achieve his potential.
That's the rub.
Shaun - I'm hoping they'll be eating humble pie after a 'Stadium of Light' type performance from the Everton team on semi-final day.
However, I'm worried that Moyes has the 'yips' when it comes to Liverpool. The last time we played them we managed to do what no other team has managed to do since January - we made the worst Liverpool team I can ever remember in my lifetime look good.
Anyway - we were both spoilt by access to Rays of Prescot (what I wouldn't give for one of their steak and pepper pies - pies are shit in Geordie land).
However, I'm worried that Moyes has the 'yips' when it comes to Liverpool. The last time we played them we managed to do what no other team has managed to do since January - we made the worst Liverpool team I can ever remember in my lifetime look good.
Anyway - we were both spoilt by access to Rays of Prescot (what I wouldn't give for one of their steak and pepper pies - pies are shit in Geordie land).
Everyone just buy a half season ticket at crimbo happy days. (The board might get the message then)
I worry about that too, Kevin. Moyes needs to look at how awful they are at the moment and go for their throats. Not bring back Rodwell to man mark Gerrard, or play Heitinga in midfield. Bollocks to who or what they have in their team, focus on what we have and what we can do. Liverpool are a mid table team that nobody fears, except David Moyes.
Richard's idea of turning up for the first game of the season wearing Crimbo gear is a blinder!
Alternatively, a less labour intensive option would be to just sing the Slade song "So here it is, Merry Christmas" or a verse of two of "Auld Lang Syne".
Alternatively, a less labour intensive option would be to just sing the Slade song "So here it is, Merry Christmas" or a verse of two of "Auld Lang Syne".
I heard one of the bidders for Rangers say on Sky this morning that his competitors were not prepared to make public the details of their bids and `shadowy bids were made by shady bidders.`
So how would you describe the ` invisable` throngs who queue up at Bill`s door every time he`s in crisis or there`s something to be sold?
Fanciful? Fictitious? Illusory?
Try non-existent!
So how would you describe the ` invisable` throngs who queue up at Bill`s door every time he`s in crisis or there`s something to be sold?
Fanciful? Fictitious? Illusory?
Try non-existent!
Having read the points made above (nb: some very good points) I'd like to put forward a point of view that nobody so far as mentioned.
Mmmmmm.....piiiiiiiiies!
Mmmmmm.....piiiiiiiiies!
Kevin,
keeping on the irrelevant allegories theme...
What happens if your baker's a bullshitter and he was frankly pished when he made those cakes?
Of course, you are definitely right ? because you've told a cute story.
keeping on the irrelevant allegories theme...
What happens if your baker's a bullshitter and he was frankly pished when he made those cakes?
Of course, you are definitely right ? because you've told a cute story.
"So how would you describe the ` invisable` throngs who queue up at Bill`s door every time he`s in crisis or there`s something to be sold?
Fanciful? Fictitious? Illusory?
Try non-existent!"
Doddy, has someone hacked your account?
Fanciful? Fictitious? Illusory?
Try non-existent!"
Doddy, has someone hacked your account?
Steven #915, great idea.
Then your Chrimbo pressy is sorted from your family and you can pick and choose your games until then so you'd save a few bob on the season as well.
Then your Chrimbo pressy is sorted from your family and you can pick and choose your games until then so you'd save a few bob on the season as well.
Following on the Christmas theme,I suspect Doddy has one of those Scrooge-like visions in which the truth has been revealed to him!
If he carries on posting in his present vein,I`ll have no one to argue with!
PS.I`m ordering me crimbo suit right now!
If he carries on posting in his present vein,I`ll have no one to argue with!
PS.I`m ordering me crimbo suit right now!
Yes Andy it IS a bad time to moan...so DON'T
Doddy what's got into you? Have you suddenly seen the light? Had a joyous epiphany?
If neither, then please tell me which one of BK's lies was the final one that broke the camel's back?
PS it was a nice idea, the early christmas.
If neither, then please tell me which one of BK's lies was the final one that broke the camel's back?
PS it was a nice idea, the early christmas.
'It's like you selling your house and the market value is £100,000 but you want £150,000 for it and because you still have a £50,000 mortgage on it you want the buyer to pay off the debt also!'
Not really. It's more like you have a house worth £100,000 but because you bought it in 2006 the outstanding mortgage is £150,000. You can't sell at £100,000 because you are in negative equity and your debt is secured on the house.
Not really. It's more like you have a house worth £100,000 but because you bought it in 2006 the outstanding mortgage is £150,000. You can't sell at £100,000 because you are in negative equity and your debt is secured on the house.
Richard, if shadowy bids are made by shady bidders - doesn't that mean that it is those who are interested in Everton and haven't made their interest public - are the shady one's? PS I love the blue santa suit idea for August.
You won't find a bigger baker fan than me...
Watch this space cake...
Only Greggs fans buy pasties...
Your cheese & onion have betrayed this club...
Any other BK/bakery related quotes anyone? I know there is some sharp minds on this site.
Watch this space cake...
Only Greggs fans buy pasties...
Your cheese & onion have betrayed this club...
Any other BK/bakery related quotes anyone? I know there is some sharp minds on this site.
Just hope the complaint department in the cake shop relises you don't reply with history, unlike the ToffeGirlGate saga
Don't be fooled. If we lose the semi-final then we are back to square one. Everton still have far too many weaknesses to be optimistic about the future. Consistancy in midfield is the biggest problem and a lack of real speed.
Sure we have had some decent results recently but we have dodged bullets getting them. The midfield do not track back quick enough to help the defense except Pienaar who will be missed in the Semi.
Gibson is quite solid but no world-beater and Cahill works hard but cannot beat a man except in the air but nowadays is played much deeper.
Fellaini and Osman cannot tackle and are quite one paced but hey if we can keep Suarez and Bellamy quiet who knows?.
I do not agree with what Moyes thinks his strongest starting eleven is and because of that I believe we will struggle to be a real contender for honours despite the recent results.
Sure we have had some decent results recently but we have dodged bullets getting them. The midfield do not track back quick enough to help the defense except Pienaar who will be missed in the Semi.
Gibson is quite solid but no world-beater and Cahill works hard but cannot beat a man except in the air but nowadays is played much deeper.
Fellaini and Osman cannot tackle and are quite one paced but hey if we can keep Suarez and Bellamy quiet who knows?.
I do not agree with what Moyes thinks his strongest starting eleven is and because of that I believe we will struggle to be a real contender for honours despite the recent results.
Shane and Kevin Sparke..are you the same or one of the other?? hehehe..I always wondered why we never start as how we finish the season. Against our neighbours, I've noticed DM always plays local boys in the starting line-up ie; Osman, Rodwell, Hibbert and Anichebe. Is it because he believes the derby requires passion more than form? I wonder?
Fellaini can't tackle? hmmm, re-reads and then steps away from computer shaking and scratching head....
I'd say Fellaini is one of the best tacklers ive ever seen, and he never seems to need a slide tackle. Agree about the consistency. I think Fellaini is getting there with his, but Osman is 30 now, so we are still going to get the odd good performance followed by an equally bad one.
Saegaran, if Moyes does think its all about passion, then it shows he is out of touch, especially if he thinks Hibbert, Osman, Anichebe and Rodwell would inject any passion, into anything, ever! The last derby game was devoid of any passion, which was half the problem, and the players that were left out like Cahill, Johnny and Neville were the ones you need for that. There was only 3 fouls in the entire first half of that game, pretty sure that would normally be unheard of in a derby.
When is a tackle not a tackle? Looking at previous comments it is obviously when it is an expertly timed toe-poke or a subtle sole-of-boot drag that leaves the opposition wondering where the ball has gone. I think Fellaini is very effective at breaking up the opposition play even though he doesn't do sliding or crunching (which we all enjoy). He may not be lightning fast but he can cover some ground relatively quickly with that gangly lope of his. The problem he has with some fans, I think, is that he is never going to look like a 'busy' or energetic player. I think his style / attributes are fairly similar to Zidane's and he didn't do too badly overall!
Think the answer to the original post may have already been partly explained. Mr Moyes makes sure that the fitness levels (and mental attitudes) are good enough to last the whole season. Before Christmas most teams can match that and then any more flair or ability they have can be used to beat us; after Christmas they start to flag and we become more dominant. A few fresh and eager faces arriving in January has increased that advantage.
Apart from the Sunderland FA Cup win I don't think we have played particularly well in the recent run of good results, generally being just that little bit better (or luckier) than the opposition, but I hope we can see that level of performance repeated more often.
For the future...? Until radical changes happen at the club we will have to rely on DM's ability to get a full season out of a small squad to offset our inability to buy the quick, athletic, skilful, intelligent and dedicated players who would improve our team.
Think the answer to the original post may have already been partly explained. Mr Moyes makes sure that the fitness levels (and mental attitudes) are good enough to last the whole season. Before Christmas most teams can match that and then any more flair or ability they have can be used to beat us; after Christmas they start to flag and we become more dominant. A few fresh and eager faces arriving in January has increased that advantage.
Apart from the Sunderland FA Cup win I don't think we have played particularly well in the recent run of good results, generally being just that little bit better (or luckier) than the opposition, but I hope we can see that level of performance repeated more often.
For the future...? Until radical changes happen at the club we will have to rely on DM's ability to get a full season out of a small squad to offset our inability to buy the quick, athletic, skilful, intelligent and dedicated players who would improve our team.
Johnny, Johnny, Johnny, Johnny Heitinga.
Si, I think 1 person questioned Fellaini's tackling, quickly followed by a couple of comments disagreeing. I highly doubt we are so much fitter than most other teams in the premier league, that come christmas, they are all knackered and we are still coasting at peak levels. If Moyes wants to laud the applause for great runs from january onwards, then he has to take the stick for the poor runs prior to that.
Everton run by Master Bakers? I'm sure that's not quite correct, but it's probably not far off.
Whatever happened to the eccles cakes?
Whatever happened to the eccles cakes?
Problem with this end of season spell is that it is just that.
End of season, backs against the wall.
The only time Moyes starts to play the right people at the right place.
Also when each season ends there is a long summer break and that destroys the form thing.
I feel that Moyes has to start the pre-season early and he needs to play against top european sides instead of shitty teams in Australia and in the US.
We are ill prepared each season, look at how Surs did it, they went and played against good German and Spanish teams, Moyes should have learned this by now, 10 years and he still refuses to adjust his pre-season.
Looking back at this season Moyes mixed his first eleven up way too much.
After winning a game like the Wigan game he should have started and stuck by the players that scored the goals and won the game, and not change it back again the first chance he gets.
Drenthe was starting to score and give good displays, so was Vellios, but still they played very little during the first half of the season.
That was a huge mistake.
Barkley should have been in the side also as we did not have any other alternative at that time, plus he did more then ok.
Of course things became different after Donovan and Gibson arrived, he then had alternatives again.
During the first half of the seaon he only had to stick with the players performing and he could not even do that for more then 2 games straight.
Moyes is too stubborn for his own good.
I predict this pre-season the be just as shitty, going away to the US again and wasting time and money.
End of season, backs against the wall.
The only time Moyes starts to play the right people at the right place.
Also when each season ends there is a long summer break and that destroys the form thing.
I feel that Moyes has to start the pre-season early and he needs to play against top european sides instead of shitty teams in Australia and in the US.
We are ill prepared each season, look at how Surs did it, they went and played against good German and Spanish teams, Moyes should have learned this by now, 10 years and he still refuses to adjust his pre-season.
Looking back at this season Moyes mixed his first eleven up way too much.
After winning a game like the Wigan game he should have started and stuck by the players that scored the goals and won the game, and not change it back again the first chance he gets.
Drenthe was starting to score and give good displays, so was Vellios, but still they played very little during the first half of the season.
That was a huge mistake.
Barkley should have been in the side also as we did not have any other alternative at that time, plus he did more then ok.
Of course things became different after Donovan and Gibson arrived, he then had alternatives again.
During the first half of the seaon he only had to stick with the players performing and he could not even do that for more then 2 games straight.
Moyes is too stubborn for his own good.
I predict this pre-season the be just as shitty, going away to the US again and wasting time and money.
If If's and But's were Candy and Nuts we'd all have a Merry Christmas...
Agree with Ciaran's first point. A lot of it is down to Moyes not being able to find a system that works out the blocks. Why mess around with Saha for half a season when it clearly isn't working?! The same goes for a lot of others.
Agree with Ciaran's first point. A lot of it is down to Moyes not being able to find a system that works out the blocks. Why mess around with Saha for half a season when it clearly isn't working?! The same goes for a lot of others.
I we get beat by liverpool?
BROWN BREAD.
BROWN BREAD.
Revisionism going on again.
We were crap early on because players just werent performing...jags Rodwell, Cahill Osman poor, and Johnny was out of position. We havnt (hadnt) replaced Arteta and Piennar. We were and still are falling behind.
Playing Drenthe and Vellios more would hardly have made a difference. Moyes was vindicated re Drenthe because he obviously saw his self destruct tendencies, though granted he provides an option we dont have elsewhere. Vellios was decent, but hardly a regular game winner, unlike what Jelly seems to be hinting at.
Moyes has an ageing squad without the opportunity to replace the good players who have left. He's done well again with the signings on limited funds, and Fellaini has been totally magnificent.
Every team, even the mony teams have bad spells. Fact is that Everton lose less than most, because we have a manager who know how to get the best over a season. Moyes is polishing turds like never before.
Realistically a better start would have us no higher than sixth. Were seventh.
We were crap early on because players just werent performing...jags Rodwell, Cahill Osman poor, and Johnny was out of position. We havnt (hadnt) replaced Arteta and Piennar. We were and still are falling behind.
Playing Drenthe and Vellios more would hardly have made a difference. Moyes was vindicated re Drenthe because he obviously saw his self destruct tendencies, though granted he provides an option we dont have elsewhere. Vellios was decent, but hardly a regular game winner, unlike what Jelly seems to be hinting at.
Moyes has an ageing squad without the opportunity to replace the good players who have left. He's done well again with the signings on limited funds, and Fellaini has been totally magnificent.
Every team, even the mony teams have bad spells. Fact is that Everton lose less than most, because we have a manager who know how to get the best over a season. Moyes is polishing turds like never before.
Realistically a better start would have us no higher than sixth. Were seventh.
I think you bakers are shouting in the dark.Didn`t Greggs sell out to Blue Bill years ago?
Richard - what has happend for you to suddenly realisewhat has been really happening? Are you actually seeing Bill for what he is...finally?
Si, I don't get it Are you suggesting that the slow starts are part of a cunning plan? A kind of hare , tortoise thing? It seems to me that the poor start was less down to fitness and more to do with the demeanour and attitude of the coach.
Andy...more about poor form and a combo of ageing and wafer thin squad.
Keeping the baker analogy going, I suppose the original question could have been.....' Why do our cakes come out of the oven stale and get fresher as time goes by...?'
Dennis 970# I think you'll find its Baters running Everton at the moment not Bakers
Doddy 001# Greggs bought the shares BK owns and then sold out to Green via Earl as a front man
Doddy 001# Greggs bought the shares BK owns and then sold out to Green via Earl as a front man
On the original question ... I think its just a case of Moyes looking at what he's got and, rightly or wrongly, believing he has a team that best fits a defensive 'hold on for a point or nick one on the break' approach.
Now he's got some players in with more creative/attacking ability he's able to change the approach and unshackle a few of the more regular players.
I think Moyes won't risk unshackling the bunch of players he had to choose from first half of the season for fear we'd lose a lot more than we'd win. Hard to disagree with ...
Now he's got some players in with more creative/attacking ability he's able to change the approach and unshackle a few of the more regular players.
I think Moyes won't risk unshackling the bunch of players he had to choose from first half of the season for fear we'd lose a lot more than we'd win. Hard to disagree with ...
What if you are wrong, Andy?
Now I know it's beyond Moyes`s critics to accept there could possibly any other reason for a poor start than the manager. But dont those same critics contradict themselves... all the time?
The criticism we hear more often than any other, is that Moyes is a one trick pony who can't change. Now, given the contrast between the first half of the season and the second, the critics either have to accept that this claim is utter bollocks and Moyes has changed and proved them hopelessly wrong, or he is STILL doing the same old things.
If it's the latter, how do you explain the better performances? Surely logic would suggest if the manager's doing the same things, then it was the players who were under performing and it's they who have upped their game?
Of course there is a third option: maybe the players we were able to bring in ? Landon (briefly) Pienaar, Gibson and Jelavic ? were better than the players who were virtually guarenteed a place in the first part of the season?
The Moyes critics will struggle to accept the third option too, as this would almost certainly be an admission that when The manager is given even a tiny fraction of the tools his peers take for granted, he can not only stand toe to toe with City, Chelsea and Tottenham... he can beat them.
Now I know it's beyond Moyes`s critics to accept there could possibly any other reason for a poor start than the manager. But dont those same critics contradict themselves... all the time?
The criticism we hear more often than any other, is that Moyes is a one trick pony who can't change. Now, given the contrast between the first half of the season and the second, the critics either have to accept that this claim is utter bollocks and Moyes has changed and proved them hopelessly wrong, or he is STILL doing the same old things.
If it's the latter, how do you explain the better performances? Surely logic would suggest if the manager's doing the same things, then it was the players who were under performing and it's they who have upped their game?
Of course there is a third option: maybe the players we were able to bring in ? Landon (briefly) Pienaar, Gibson and Jelavic ? were better than the players who were virtually guarenteed a place in the first part of the season?
The Moyes critics will struggle to accept the third option too, as this would almost certainly be an admission that when The manager is given even a tiny fraction of the tools his peers take for granted, he can not only stand toe to toe with City, Chelsea and Tottenham... he can beat them.
The bad start was all Moyes fault He played 4-4-1-1 and sometimes 4-5-1 and sometime s these tactics work if you have the right players and Everton didn't. Things have changed somewhat and the addition of Pienaar,Gibson and Jelavic certainly has produced better results and you can see an improvement in confidence. However the cup is different and anything can happen, even more so in a Derby match. The biggest thing we need is a competent referee.
Redshite have more speed than the Blues and we have to contain them early and keep the discipline tight. They lost at Newcastle but missed a bagful early on.
It will be a tight game and I suspect one goal will decide it.
Redshite have more speed than the Blues and we have to contain them early and keep the discipline tight. They lost at Newcastle but missed a bagful early on.
It will be a tight game and I suspect one goal will decide it.
Tom (134) - Everton 2 - LFC 0.
Our score could be higher.
Our score could be higher.
1-0 would be fine as long as it is a penalty in the last minute.Gerrard bringing downJelavic in the box.
Mark #932, but when Bill bought his shares they cost only £20 million, al ot less than he's asking for, so your analogy doesn't work.
Tom (142) - Well, how about 2 - 0 Everton, and then Jela's penalty score as Gerrard watches from the sidelines after being re-carded?
I like it. I'm with you EFC 3 - LFC 0.
Good stuff.
I like it. I'm with you EFC 3 - LFC 0.
Good stuff.
James #934
"The currants will be in the bun in the morning"
"We'll have first class state of the art oven virtually free"
"The currants will be in the bun in the morning"
"We'll have first class state of the art oven virtually free"
Kevin Sparke, the cakes could also have been shit because it was a baker making them, instead of the properly trained pastry chef. I think that could also be a relevant analogy for Everton under David Moyes.
The cake is a lie...
Of course it does Eric! Its not what he bought it for ... it's what the debts are. The debts are secured against club. Its not ike they are Bill Kenwrights personal debts - like his fucking car loan or something. You can't sell the business unless you either a) clear the debt in doing so, or b) pass on the debt to the new owner. What do you expect the banks to say? 'Oh yeah Bill you can take the debt which is secured against this multi million pound business and we'll just transfer it to you and leave it as unsecured from now on? We know you can't make the payments, like, but hey ho. What fucking business runs like that, Eric? If you own one I'll buy the fucker. You can keep the debt.
Your wasting your time Mark. You are talking to a man that believes a GP renovation is self funding...
The answer to the original post has to take into account that we have this two sided season (starting poorly then having a good run after Christmas) more often than not under the current manager. I was under the impression that the fitness regime had been highlighted by some of the players and reported in the media. The sort of fitness required to last longer (stamina / endurance) doesn't necessarily translate to being 'fitter' than others before Christmas, and it may even detract from elements like explosive acceleration (sprinters and marathon runners train differently but are both supremely fit in their own way).
I am neither praising nor castigating the manager in this instance, just offering what I consider to be a reasonable conclusion from what I have observed over time. Like many fans I feel that DM has some marked limitations and he may not have the gently persuasive manner to keep the gifted but temperamental purring along, but it would be unreasonable not to concede that he has a knack of getting the most out of players who are prepared to graft.
I am neither praising nor castigating the manager in this instance, just offering what I consider to be a reasonable conclusion from what I have observed over time. Like many fans I feel that DM has some marked limitations and he may not have the gently persuasive manner to keep the gifted but temperamental purring along, but it would be unreasonable not to concede that he has a knack of getting the most out of players who are prepared to graft.
Previous posting was in reply to comments by Dan McKie and Andy Crooks relating to fitness regime being implicated in apparently improved performance since Christmas. Apologise for time taken to respond but have been offline since Thursday.
Basically it is just my own hypothesis to fit the original question which asked why the same pattern has been seen in multiple seasons.
Dan, my comments on Fellaini were intended as a response to the many posts I have seen on TW that question our bushy-haired hero's ability. I honestly don't know what some people are watching at times, and it is never more baffling than the negative comments I have heard about this one player in particular. Of course each of us is entitled to our own opinion and at times I may be moved to express mine in a public forum. I tend to type slowly and re-read / edit my postings before submitting them, and you may not be aware that my original post is timed as before your own, even though it was submitted after.
Basically it is just my own hypothesis to fit the original question which asked why the same pattern has been seen in multiple seasons.
Dan, my comments on Fellaini were intended as a response to the many posts I have seen on TW that question our bushy-haired hero's ability. I honestly don't know what some people are watching at times, and it is never more baffling than the negative comments I have heard about this one player in particular. Of course each of us is entitled to our own opinion and at times I may be moved to express mine in a public forum. I tend to type slowly and re-read / edit my postings before submitting them, and you may not be aware that my original post is timed as before your own, even though it was submitted after.
Si, I agree with you about Fellaini. In my view he has been superb lately and was magnificent against Sunderland.
Mark #192, you've said exactly what I said originally, the price is overinflated because Bill wants a purchaser to pay off the debt ie. "and because you still have a £50,000 mortgage on it you want the buyer to pay off the debt also!"
Dan, GP renovation can be easily self funding by adding corporate boxes and increased capacity.
Dan, GP renovation can be easily self funding by adding corporate boxes and increased capacity.
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891 Posted 05/04/2012 at 06:53:49
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