Season 2011-12
The Mail Bag
Europe
37 Comments: Am I thinking straight when I consider Everton have a real chance of finishing the season in Europe next season!
Back before Christmas, I thought it would be too much to ask, expecting our now consistent yearly change in form. My thoughts being pessimistic with the way the club was run and a lack of inspiration on the pitch!
Now, we are in a huge semi-final and have the chance of qualifying by winning a cup, but am I right in thinking that we could still qualify through league placing?
The three other teams in the semi are practically already set to play in Europe next year, so would that mean if Everton unfortunately failed to win the cup, the qualifying spots will go down to 7th?
As Liverpool have already qualified, we would be competing against the likes of Norwich City, Sunderland, West Brom, Fulham, Swansea City and possibly Stoke.
Meaning we have a realistic chance of European football being back at Goodison next season.
Martin Clark, Posted 08/04/2012 at 00:40:28
Comments
Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer
There are three Europa Cup places on offer: one for 5th place, one for teh League Cup, and the other for the FA Cup. Liverpool, as you say, have already qualified by winning the League Cup. Newcastle will qualify in 6th if Everton don't reach the final as any of the other 4 Semi Finalists have already qualified.
If Everton reach the final, they will qualify regardless if they win or lose as the other 3 already have another route in, and the runners-up automatically qualify when this happens. This is all based on the assumption that Chelsea finish at least 5th and qualify through their league position.
If Everton lose the semi-final, I can't see us getting into Europe as it will probably be then the Shite thru the LC, Chelsea in the league and Newcastle by finishing 6th and taking the FA Cup winners slot from either Chelsea, Spurs or Liverpool.
If Everton reach the final, they will qualify regardless if they win or lose as the other 3 already have another route in, and the runners-up automatically qualify when this happens. This is all based on the assumption that Chelsea finish at least 5th and qualify through their league position.
If Everton lose the semi-final, I can't see us getting into Europe as it will probably be then the Shite thru the LC, Chelsea in the league and Newcastle by finishing 6th and taking the FA Cup winners slot from either Chelsea, Spurs or Liverpool.
This is the bit I find interesting
"However, the losing cup finalist does not get the Europa League cup-winner spot, but gets the last available Europa League spot of that country.......In some countries (England and France) the last league entrant position is given to the League Cup Winner."
Which to me reads that the losing finalist takes the place of the League Cup winner.
Which we know is never going to happen, but wouldn't it be nice, finish above the RS in the league, beat them in the semi and then take their Europa place off them!!
"However, the losing cup finalist does not get the Europa League cup-winner spot, but gets the last available Europa League spot of that country.......In some countries (England and France) the last league entrant position is given to the League Cup Winner."
Which to me reads that the losing finalist takes the place of the League Cup winner.
Which we know is never going to happen, but wouldn't it be nice, finish above the RS in the league, beat them in the semi and then take their Europa place off them!!
Simply put, if our cup final opposition have already qualified for Europe we will qualify even if we lose the final.
It is possible Spurs or Chelsea end up 6th and reach the final, in this case its winner takes all should we also win our semi.
If we lose the semi and an already qualified Liverpool play an already qualified Spurs or Chelsea, 6th place in the league qualify... but that won't be us.
7th in the league to qualify for Europe? Only if Liverpool finish 6th... so no.
It is possible Spurs or Chelsea end up 6th and reach the final, in this case its winner takes all should we also win our semi.
If we lose the semi and an already qualified Liverpool play an already qualified Spurs or Chelsea, 6th place in the league qualify... but that won't be us.
7th in the league to qualify for Europe? Only if Liverpool finish 6th... so no.
If we do, let's hope Moyes can master playing 2 legs ie, not defending at all costs a one-goal lead from the 1st leg. Gonna be some very strong teams in Europa next season, we will not be one of them.
No new buyers around (for us) investment, who the bollox is gonna invest with Kenwright here? As for Moyes, is he really gonna be here for year 11?
Sorry guys, as strange as it sounds even with the semi coming up, I'm losing interest. Too many stagnated years, same old faces (Hibbert, Neville, Cahill, Kenwright, Moyes). We need new from top to bottom and it ain't gonna happen.
No new buyers around (for us) investment, who the bollox is gonna invest with Kenwright here? As for Moyes, is he really gonna be here for year 11?
Sorry guys, as strange as it sounds even with the semi coming up, I'm losing interest. Too many stagnated years, same old faces (Hibbert, Neville, Cahill, Kenwright, Moyes). We need new from top to bottom and it ain't gonna happen.
Joe McMahon - 388
It's posts like yours that give this site a bad name. Unbelievable negativity. Ridiculous.
It's posts like yours that give this site a bad name. Unbelievable negativity. Ridiculous.
My view ? similar to Nick's ? is that if we beat the RS in the semi, then we are in Europe. Not technically guarenteed but good enough de facto.
Joe, I share your frustration; believe me, I want to stop the rot and the only way to do that is to get Kenwright out and rebuild from the top. But you have seen him waver under pressure this season so I would urge you to get behind the protests for change as the only means of effecting reform.
Joe, I share your frustration; believe me, I want to stop the rot and the only way to do that is to get Kenwright out and rebuild from the top. But you have seen him waver under pressure this season so I would urge you to get behind the protests for change as the only means of effecting reform.
The old Mrs Beaton recipe for rabbit pie states: first catch your rabbit. If we win the semi we will win the cup. Everything else will follow, or not, as the fates allow.
Joe McMahon - 388
I have a feeling that you may possibly be a "glass half-empty" type of bloke. Not 100% sure, obviously, because I have never in your company. I have been to many funerals, though, so I can fairly accurately imagine what it must be like. As thay say, Choosing to be miserable is an option, but not one I recommend.
No offence, mate, and try and enjoy tomorrow's match and next Saturday. Go on, give it a try...
I have a feeling that you may possibly be a "glass half-empty" type of bloke. Not 100% sure, obviously, because I have never in your company. I have been to many funerals, though, so I can fairly accurately imagine what it must be like. As thay say, Choosing to be miserable is an option, but not one I recommend.
No offence, mate, and try and enjoy tomorrow's match and next Saturday. Go on, give it a try...
As it stands at the moment, there are 2 ways we can qualify for Europe: win the FA Cup or be runner up to a team that qualifies for the Champions League.
If we lose to a team that finish in a Europa League qualifying position then the FA Cup spot reverts back to the next team in the league (currently Newcastle).
If we lose to a team that finish in a Europa League qualifying position then the FA Cup spot reverts back to the next team in the league (currently Newcastle).
Slightly off piste. I think the top 3 plus the Cup winner should get into the CL, because the FA Cup has become the poor relation since the inception of the CL, plus it wouldn't be the usual suspects every season.
The 'Champions' League should be just that. It is totally devalued by the present set-up. It should be one from each European league. I really hope that we do not get into Europe as our squad is not strong enough to be involved in more games than we play now!! If the club gets sold to someone who is prepared to inject tons of cash to bring in top class players, then I will alter my opinion.
We lend out so many players each season that we are stuck with McFadden taking up valuable bench room... a few more injuries and you will see Weir on the bench!! Be realistic, boys, and be thankful with what we have got for, let's face it, no real investment!
We lend out so many players each season that we are stuck with McFadden taking up valuable bench room... a few more injuries and you will see Weir on the bench!! Be realistic, boys, and be thankful with what we have got for, let's face it, no real investment!
David Hallwood - if that became the format, how often do you think "outsiders" to the top four (five) would reach the final? It would make life even worse for the rest of football because it would be the easiest way for the big clubs to achieve that target.
CL play-offs for the 4-7th teams. If anything it would mean an end to those pointless end-of-season England matches.
Not if we play like we did yesterday.
Nick that will never happen, look at the end of this season which ends on 13th May then only 4 weeks to the start of the European Championships. How would you fit in properly 3 extra games for the teams that get to the play off finals when national sides would want their players for warm-up games.
Hmmm... well, play the matches in the lucrative Asian market and I'm sure the FA will find a way.
Couldn't we could just play 'rock, paper, scissors' for the final Europa League place?
Head on the block: I think the worst thing we could do is qualify for the Europa League.
Fact: We do not have the squad to compete with the amount of games we will have to play.
Fact: It is worth fuck all monetary-wise to the club.
Fact: We all love an away day in Europe.
Fact: Fuck it ! Let's all go on the piss abroad.
Fact: I'm talking shite.
Fact: We do not have the squad to compete with the amount of games we will have to play.
Fact: It is worth fuck all monetary-wise to the club.
Fact: We all love an away day in Europe.
Fact: Fuck it ! Let's all go on the piss abroad.
Fact: I'm talking shite.
Surely it is now time to scrap the League (insert current sponsor) Cup. It was originally introduced to increase revenue for clubs in the lower leagues, none of the bigger clubs took it remotely seriously until a European place came with it ? even now, clubs with CL aspirations aren't much interested. The idea that there is just one place to the Europa League open through league placing is ridiculous. Since the new TV deal and the extra money paid out to the lower leagues, is this competition necessary?
Since Uefa have revamped the competition ? and just as importantly the prize money ? this competition has become a valuable source of prestige and revenue, not to mention some pretty good football. That is a lot more than you can say aout the Carling Cup. Scrapping the Mickey Mouse Cup it would help ease fixture congestion and focus more attention on the FA Cup. I hope that we can qualify by being FA Cup Winners 2012 but hope for the best and plan for the worst.
Since Uefa have revamped the competition ? and just as importantly the prize money ? this competition has become a valuable source of prestige and revenue, not to mention some pretty good football. That is a lot more than you can say aout the Carling Cup. Scrapping the Mickey Mouse Cup it would help ease fixture congestion and focus more attention on the FA Cup. I hope that we can qualify by being FA Cup Winners 2012 but hope for the best and plan for the worst.
I agree with Stewart Oakes interpretation.
One or two of the other contributors have missed the point that the rules were changed (I think last season) so that a losing finalist now only qualifies if the winners have got into the Champions League! A Europa qualification by the winners is not enough.
Presumably the reason for the rule stating whether a team has officially qualified via the cup winners, or final league position "slot" is that it designates which qualifying round they enter the competition?
Incidentally, our final league game against Newcastle could be interesting if say we loose the final to Spurs/Chelsea who are then "neck to neck" with Newcastle for 4th place. In those circumstances, a win could give us the last Europa place!!
One or two of the other contributors have missed the point that the rules were changed (I think last season) so that a losing finalist now only qualifies if the winners have got into the Champions League! A Europa qualification by the winners is not enough.
Presumably the reason for the rule stating whether a team has officially qualified via the cup winners, or final league position "slot" is that it designates which qualifying round they enter the competition?
Incidentally, our final league game against Newcastle could be interesting if say we loose the final to Spurs/Chelsea who are then "neck to neck" with Newcastle for 4th place. In those circumstances, a win could give us the last Europa place!!
Paul Watson
Maybe have the Carling / Rumbelows / Milk / Mickey Mouse / Best In Breed Cup for the rest of football without the Prem teams being involved.
Maybe have the Carling / Rumbelows / Milk / Mickey Mouse / Best In Breed Cup for the rest of football without the Prem teams being involved.
If we want to progress in any way as a football club, then we need Europa League football. Let's be honest, it's not as though if we take a year off from it we'll magically make the Champions League (the RS rationale when they missed out last year).
Good players want European football no matter how low grade it is. We normally play better with extra games anyway and a run in Europe could satisfy some people's insatiable desire to see Barkley and Co get a few more games.
Good players want European football no matter how low grade it is. We normally play better with extra games anyway and a run in Europe could satisfy some people's insatiable desire to see Barkley and Co get a few more games.
Football is about the fans.
Squad not big enough, who cares. If anything it put's pressure on the present owners to "invest" in the club.
I fancy another little European Trip (just not back to Italy), put's the feel good factor back in the club and in the fan's also.
Or instead of looking forward to European games look forward to a mid table finish?
Nuremberg again anyone?
Squad not big enough, who cares. If anything it put's pressure on the present owners to "invest" in the club.
I fancy another little European Trip (just not back to Italy), put's the feel good factor back in the club and in the fan's also.
Or instead of looking forward to European games look forward to a mid table finish?
Nuremberg again anyone?
Joe McMahon reminds me of Gary Megson at Bolton a few years ago. They slogged t,heir guts out to reach Europe, did quite well in it, including a draw at Bayern Munich, and were held at home by Sporting Lisbon in a two-leg tie in the later stages.
Megson decided in his narrow minded wisdom to leave nine senior players at home for the second leg on the basis they had an important relegation battle coming up against Wigan a few days later. They narrowly lost one-nil in Lisbon and could quite possibly have progressed with their strongest eleven. And they have never been near Europe since, never mind the latter stages.
Of course, they also then lost the oh so important game against Wigan anyway so went out of Europe with a whimper for nothing. They also stayed up anyway.
Moral of this story is: seize the moment, expand your horizons and go for it. Joe, your attitude and the same one displayed by some others of not wanting to qualify is small time.
If you are losing interest, would not a few Fiorentinas or Nuremburgs cheer you up or would you be sat rocking in your seat wringing your hands saying, "But our squad's too small, woe and doom!" You may as well take up DIY and forget football with that attitude.
Megson decided in his narrow minded wisdom to leave nine senior players at home for the second leg on the basis they had an important relegation battle coming up against Wigan a few days later. They narrowly lost one-nil in Lisbon and could quite possibly have progressed with their strongest eleven. And they have never been near Europe since, never mind the latter stages.
Of course, they also then lost the oh so important game against Wigan anyway so went out of Europe with a whimper for nothing. They also stayed up anyway.
Moral of this story is: seize the moment, expand your horizons and go for it. Joe, your attitude and the same one displayed by some others of not wanting to qualify is small time.
If you are losing interest, would not a few Fiorentinas or Nuremburgs cheer you up or would you be sat rocking in your seat wringing your hands saying, "But our squad's too small, woe and doom!" You may as well take up DIY and forget football with that attitude.
I believe in first things first. Let's win the next important game which is the sem-final. That would be one feather in the cap. Then let's win the final, feather #2. Our European aspirations are of secondary importance compared to domestic issues.
The team needs a new look in some areas in order to be a viable commodity in Europe. The previous exploitations of the last 10 years have been somewhat of a let down once we meet the better teams.
Moyes has to start now with the fringe players as some of the old brigade will not be good enough next season to get us anywhere in Europa league. Barkley, Vellios, etc must get a run over these last few games for further experience.
The team needs a new look in some areas in order to be a viable commodity in Europe. The previous exploitations of the last 10 years have been somewhat of a let down once we meet the better teams.
Moyes has to start now with the fringe players as some of the old brigade will not be good enough next season to get us anywhere in Europa league. Barkley, Vellios, etc must get a run over these last few games for further experience.
Paul #444, rather than scrap the Football League Cup let's just make it only for those teams in the Football League and leave out the teams from the Premier League altogether.
Keep the Europa place for the winners to give the competition a bit of interest and prestige that it would otherwise lose.
Keep the Europa place for the winners to give the competition a bit of interest and prestige that it would otherwise lose.
David #447, yes it's about enterring the qualifying stages. Looking back to last season, Spurs entered Q4 as the league placer. Birmingham were 'promoted' to Q4 as the League Cup winner as the FA Cup winner was in CL. Stoke entered Q3 as the FA Cup runner up in the last qualifying place.
The rules don't actually say what happens to a FA Cup runner up to a Europa qualified team?
The rules don't actually say what happens to a FA Cup runner up to a Europa qualified team?
They don't get the place,Eric. It would go back into the league.
In that scenario, we'd need to overtake Newcastle to make Europe.
Let's hope Arsenal collapse.
Or, fk it, let's just win the cup.
In that scenario, we'd need to overtake Newcastle to make Europe.
Let's hope Arsenal collapse.
Or, fk it, let's just win the cup.
Ok Guys, yes I was on a bit of a downer yesterday, (all this rain doesn't help!). But yes I just get frustrated at things going stale (like many of us). If we do get into Europa, I want Moyes to go for it.
On another note, it's good to see Arteta score another corker yesterday. Does anyone know if we got any clauses add odds to his Arsenal contract?
On another note, it's good to see Arteta score another corker yesterday. Does anyone know if we got any clauses add odds to his Arsenal contract?
Joe.
Welcome back.
Welcome back.
Who the fuck wants to play in the Europa Cup?
I have no problem qualifying for the Europa Cup if we won the F.A CUP. Pretty much a fair trade for me. How seriously I'd take it when we got there is a different matter.
I would look at it as being a chance for the reserve team to get a proper run out. How many proper competitve games do any of our up and coming players get during the course of a season? None. Five or ten minutes at the end of a league game when we have half our seniors in the treatment room counts for fuck all. What good is the odd game to Jags or Duffy or Coleman at the moment? Give them competititve games to get their sharpness back.
I would look at it as being a chance for the reserve team to get a proper run out. How many proper competitve games do any of our up and coming players get during the course of a season? None. Five or ten minutes at the end of a league game when we have half our seniors in the treatment room counts for fuck all. What good is the odd game to Jags or Duffy or Coleman at the moment? Give them competititve games to get their sharpness back.
Mick Wrende.
Me.
Me.
Eric
Why should the rules say anything about the Cup runners-up? The Cup winners have the Europa place - end of story.
The point about losing to a Champions League qualifier is that is the only situation where the Cup winner would not want the Europa League place.
Why should the rules say anything about the Cup runners-up? The Cup winners have the Europa place - end of story.
The point about losing to a Champions League qualifier is that is the only situation where the Cup winner would not want the Europa League place.
Because Phil, if they are going to make rules they should cover all eventualities so that all teams in the competition know them beforehand and they don't have to make up non-existant rules like they did for the RS in the CL.
They DO actually have a rule for the runners up (to a CL qualifier) but it doesn't say what happens to the runners up of a team already qualified for Europa.
You last sentence doesn't make sense; the Cup winner would not want the Europa place if they lose to a CL qualifier?
They DO actually have a rule for the runners up (to a CL qualifier) but it doesn't say what happens to the runners up of a team already qualified for Europa.
You last sentence doesn't make sense; the Cup winner would not want the Europa place if they lose to a CL qualifier?
Eric
Surely your last sentence does not make sense as if a team loses to a CL qualifier, they are not going to be the Cup winners are they?
The situation regarding the Cup runners-up is just an echo of the days when the Cup Winners Cup still existed. If the FA Cup winners also won the League then the runners-up would qualify but there was no need to make a rule about the runners-up if the winners entered the ECWC.
Surely your last sentence does not make sense as if a team loses to a CL qualifier, they are not going to be the Cup winners are they?
The situation regarding the Cup runners-up is just an echo of the days when the Cup Winners Cup still existed. If the FA Cup winners also won the League then the runners-up would qualify but there was no need to make a rule about the runners-up if the winners entered the ECWC.
Add Your Comments
In order to post a comment to the MailBag, you need to be logged in as a registered user of the site.
Or Sign up as a ToffeeWeb Member — it's free, takes just a few minutes and will allow you to post your comments on articles and MailBag submissions across the site.
© ToffeeWeb
-sm.jpg)
-sm.jpg)
-sm.jpg)
377 Posted 08/04/2012 at 05:03:50
Report abuse
Them's the rules if you can sort out what they mean http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/index.html