Season 2011-12
The Mail Bag
A new beginning
22 Comments: I have wanted David Moyes out for many years, in fact after Tony Marsh I doubt there would be many who have criticised him longer and harder. Today went much as expected, we played poorly, as did Liverpool, and lost. Distin, who has been magnificent this season, fucked up.
In many ways, I was angrier today than any Evertonian. My car was booked in for an MOT and all being well I would be in the bar for kick-off. Well, anyway the ramp at the MOT centre jammed and my car was stuck for an hour and a half. I arrived at the pub to be greeted by a Liverpool supporter with an outstretched hand of condolence.
Anyway, I have never been more gutted and angry in my life. However, I have tried to take a different look. It was fated that Andy Carroll, a human carthorse, should score the winner. That doesn't deflect from the fact that he is the worst buy in the history of football. Dalglish is still scum and they are are a club without dignity and decency.
Nothing has changed in my view. I don't feel angry at Moyes and hope that he will move on. We have a decent squad with some good young players and under a new coach perhaps we can improve. Kenwright has no limelight to bask under and we can get back to reality. A sad day to be an Evertonian but not the end of the world.
A new beginning...
Andy Crooks, Posted 14/04/2012 at 18:39:02
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Enough is enough. 10 years is long enough. Let's do a Newcastle for next season and start afresh!
Give the Newcastle owner some credit, he got rid of Houghton after getting them back into the Premiership and mid-table. Sold off Carroll, Enrique, Barton and Nolan plus other fringe players and started again with new forward thinking manager Pardrew.
They are flying after buying some decent foreign players and new ideas! We need OUR owners to OWN and RUN the club, and NOT David Moyes who thinks he is beyond reproach.
Moyes runs our team and is the boss at the club who tells Kenwright what to do (how can this be a good thing?)
In my opinion we need to change the manager and get rid of most of the fringe players like Osman, Coleman, Rodwell etc who at best would struggle to get in many championship teams (but Moyes still plays them).
@David Harrison: well said, totally agree mate
Andy
No new beginning till the end of Moyes and terrifyingly he could be here for years.
(I need oxygen....NOW NURSE!)
No new beginning till the end of Moyes and terrifyingly he could be here for years.
(I need oxygen....NOW NURSE!)
Whilst I'd like to see another manager, Andy, don't kid yourself we have a good squad.
Drenthe, Pienaar and Stracq are not even our players.
Neville, Cahill, Distin, Osman, Hibbert are all over 30.
How are we going to replace these players without new investment?
Drenthe, Pienaar and Stracq are not even our players.
Neville, Cahill, Distin, Osman, Hibbert are all over 30.
How are we going to replace these players without new investment?
So with this fresh start, we bring in Martinez, Holloway, Rodgers or the likes.
Out of interest, how many of them have got to wembley or consistently beaten the top four teams? And 'forward thinking' Pardew? Is this some kind of joke? He has had a good season, no doubt. But entertaining the idea of bringing in a manger just because he had one good season, and ignoring his previous spells seems ridiculous.
So I let you guys again explain, who will have Everton winning cups and competing at the top level against teams funded to the tune of in excess of 100 million, with very little money to spend? Because nobody in the history of Premier League football has managed to do it consistently before.
We have seem the smaller teams who play attacking football year in year out in the premiership. And while most of them do win some matches, then inevitably concede more than they score over the course of a season. Its all very well playing attacking football and tactics, but do people not also concede that you need the high calibre players to do it? In reality, probably only Leighton Baines would get into any of the consistent Champions League sides.
Our main problem has been goalscorers over the last few years, and it now seems that we have one able to consistently produce the goods. Add in a player that can give him the service he needs and we are going to be much more threatening going forward. Given the start of season we have had, I think anybody would have snapped the hand of someone who said we would be 7th and get to Wembley. The acid test for Moyes is managing the squad in the summer, and solving the slow starting problem. For all his faults, I still don't see Moyes as the root cause of our problems. I still believe it is financial. I dont see any other manager being able to consistently delivering high quality football with the funds our club generates.
Out of interest, how many of them have got to wembley or consistently beaten the top four teams? And 'forward thinking' Pardew? Is this some kind of joke? He has had a good season, no doubt. But entertaining the idea of bringing in a manger just because he had one good season, and ignoring his previous spells seems ridiculous.
So I let you guys again explain, who will have Everton winning cups and competing at the top level against teams funded to the tune of in excess of 100 million, with very little money to spend? Because nobody in the history of Premier League football has managed to do it consistently before.
We have seem the smaller teams who play attacking football year in year out in the premiership. And while most of them do win some matches, then inevitably concede more than they score over the course of a season. Its all very well playing attacking football and tactics, but do people not also concede that you need the high calibre players to do it? In reality, probably only Leighton Baines would get into any of the consistent Champions League sides.
Our main problem has been goalscorers over the last few years, and it now seems that we have one able to consistently produce the goods. Add in a player that can give him the service he needs and we are going to be much more threatening going forward. Given the start of season we have had, I think anybody would have snapped the hand of someone who said we would be 7th and get to Wembley. The acid test for Moyes is managing the squad in the summer, and solving the slow starting problem. For all his faults, I still don't see Moyes as the root cause of our problems. I still believe it is financial. I dont see any other manager being able to consistently delivering high quality football with the funds our club generates.
I agree with Dan
Part of the problem with wanting to replace Moyes is the fact that noone has a record which stacks up against Moyes, that is of course except managers who've had skip loads of cash.
You could argue there are managers who are more positive than moyes, who play a more expansive style. These teams always have high spots, great performances but never ever have enough consistency to ever threaten the top places.. Moyes always does better over a full season. He has proved this time and time again.
If we get rid of Moyes we risk becoming another Villa, Sunderland, and yes Newcastle....one season in god knows how long. These teams have played plenty of good football at times but never ever over a season..... we always do better than them.
So we take a risk and appoint a Rodgers or Holloway? Might work, but you could argue its the same scenario again. It was hillarious on here last year when Holloway was hailed, (as Rodgers has this season), as a replacement for Moyes based on the great football Blackpool were playing. Did anyone actually notice that Blackpool completely forgot how to defend? After their month or two in the spotlight they got dumped on, well and truly.
Football success is all about money, thats been proven beyond doubt. Liverpools subs yesterday were an argie international and a proven top level goalscorer. Ours was a moody Nigerian child.
Part of the problem with wanting to replace Moyes is the fact that noone has a record which stacks up against Moyes, that is of course except managers who've had skip loads of cash.
You could argue there are managers who are more positive than moyes, who play a more expansive style. These teams always have high spots, great performances but never ever have enough consistency to ever threaten the top places.. Moyes always does better over a full season. He has proved this time and time again.
If we get rid of Moyes we risk becoming another Villa, Sunderland, and yes Newcastle....one season in god knows how long. These teams have played plenty of good football at times but never ever over a season..... we always do better than them.
So we take a risk and appoint a Rodgers or Holloway? Might work, but you could argue its the same scenario again. It was hillarious on here last year when Holloway was hailed, (as Rodgers has this season), as a replacement for Moyes based on the great football Blackpool were playing. Did anyone actually notice that Blackpool completely forgot how to defend? After their month or two in the spotlight they got dumped on, well and truly.
Football success is all about money, thats been proven beyond doubt. Liverpools subs yesterday were an argie international and a proven top level goalscorer. Ours was a moody Nigerian child.
Moyes isn't going anywhere soon. He's one of the highest paid mangers in the WORLD. He has a Chairman who will never sack him as his modest achievements keep him in power.
No top 4 side, or one with aspirations to be top 4 will look at him as he has consistently failed to challenge the top 4, especially on their own turf.
The only team that will take him will be Celtic, and that won't be till he's built up a nice pension fund from us before he takes the inevitable drop in salary that it will provide. (And I bet he wouldn't dare rest half a side for a derby at Ibrox, cup or no cup).
I used to hope that we'd get new owners and Moyes would get a chance to work with better resources, but more expectations. Now I hope we get new owners, full stop. I don't give a shit if he's around or not.
No top 4 side, or one with aspirations to be top 4 will look at him as he has consistently failed to challenge the top 4, especially on their own turf.
The only team that will take him will be Celtic, and that won't be till he's built up a nice pension fund from us before he takes the inevitable drop in salary that it will provide. (And I bet he wouldn't dare rest half a side for a derby at Ibrox, cup or no cup).
I used to hope that we'd get new owners and Moyes would get a chance to work with better resources, but more expectations. Now I hope we get new owners, full stop. I don't give a shit if he's around or not.
Dan Brierley
Don't worry moyes won't be going, with any luck we'll draw liverpool in the Carling and FA cups to make 4 losses in a season possible.
it's just like "record breakers" with Moyes.
Don't worry moyes won't be going, with any luck we'll draw liverpool in the Carling and FA cups to make 4 losses in a season possible.
it's just like "record breakers" with Moyes.
Dan, Pardew may not have got to Wembley but he got to Cardiff as West Ham manager, and gave the Shite much more of a game than we managed yesterday, with an arguably inferior bunch of players that were in the blue shirt yesterday. His team showed balls, had a go at them, and but for a couple of Gerrard wonder goals, would have beaten them.
This season his team has beaten Man U and Liverpool, he was twice victorious over Arsenal as West Ham manager. So basically your point on Pardew doesn't really stand up.
As for your point about Martinez, Rodgers, Holloway etc, maybe if they had been at a club with our resources over the past 10, TEN years, they could have managed as well, if not better than Moyes? We will never know, as we speak they have only been in charge of much smaller clubs for a much shorter period of time. Furthermore, even given the above, their managerial records at this point are superior to that of Moyes when he was given the Everton job, so who's to say that they couldn't do better?
Martinez's Wigan went to Analfield this year with belief, and got 3 points. When was the last time Everton did that? 1999 probably. Holloway's Blackpool went to Analfield last year with belief. Guess what? they won too. Paul Lambert's Norwich got a result there this year, as did Rodger's Swansea. They are all good managers, if they get a chance at a bigger club like us, maybe they could do better.
We've had Moyes for 10 years, we know what he is about, he is not going to take us any further than he has already, if he was going to he would've done it already. It's depressing watching his teams play football. He does done a good job stabilising the club, but it's time for a change.
This season his team has beaten Man U and Liverpool, he was twice victorious over Arsenal as West Ham manager. So basically your point on Pardew doesn't really stand up.
As for your point about Martinez, Rodgers, Holloway etc, maybe if they had been at a club with our resources over the past 10, TEN years, they could have managed as well, if not better than Moyes? We will never know, as we speak they have only been in charge of much smaller clubs for a much shorter period of time. Furthermore, even given the above, their managerial records at this point are superior to that of Moyes when he was given the Everton job, so who's to say that they couldn't do better?
Martinez's Wigan went to Analfield this year with belief, and got 3 points. When was the last time Everton did that? 1999 probably. Holloway's Blackpool went to Analfield last year with belief. Guess what? they won too. Paul Lambert's Norwich got a result there this year, as did Rodger's Swansea. They are all good managers, if they get a chance at a bigger club like us, maybe they could do better.
We've had Moyes for 10 years, we know what he is about, he is not going to take us any further than he has already, if he was going to he would've done it already. It's depressing watching his teams play football. He does done a good job stabilising the club, but it's time for a change.
We really don't need to go into the tired and well trodden debate as aired above for the 1000th time on TW, especially as the man isn't going anywhere.
This post is based on the premise that managers should be sacked for reaching a semi-final which of course makes it a load of shock bollocks (my new phrase).
One quote that sticks in my mind when thinking of Moyes is...
'It is always easier to extol the virtues of a hypothetical alternative than it is to defend a cautious and disappointing reality'...
For what it is worth I think Moyes is doing an amazing job in letting people forget that we're up shit creek without a paddle concerning the finances. If/ when it blows up in our faces there's not another manager I would take above him to steer us through. And if/ when investment comes there is nothing he has done for me to think he shouldn't be allowed to manage on a level playing field with the teams he regularly competes with.
He's not a manager who allows the team to compete on the big occasion and would need to rectify this when investment allows the potential of this club to demand it, but as for the here and now, or in much worse times of financial trouble he's the man.
No one knows if we're going to need to sell sell sell in the summer or if we can add a few but to get rid just because you don't like his brand of football (which has been attractive stuff recently) is short sighted. If the team stays together why should we not be able to do a Newcastle next season?
Though would like to point out though for no reason of course... there is a very astute and strong manager in charge of Croatia...
This post is based on the premise that managers should be sacked for reaching a semi-final which of course makes it a load of shock bollocks (my new phrase).
One quote that sticks in my mind when thinking of Moyes is...
'It is always easier to extol the virtues of a hypothetical alternative than it is to defend a cautious and disappointing reality'...
For what it is worth I think Moyes is doing an amazing job in letting people forget that we're up shit creek without a paddle concerning the finances. If/ when it blows up in our faces there's not another manager I would take above him to steer us through. And if/ when investment comes there is nothing he has done for me to think he shouldn't be allowed to manage on a level playing field with the teams he regularly competes with.
He's not a manager who allows the team to compete on the big occasion and would need to rectify this when investment allows the potential of this club to demand it, but as for the here and now, or in much worse times of financial trouble he's the man.
No one knows if we're going to need to sell sell sell in the summer or if we can add a few but to get rid just because you don't like his brand of football (which has been attractive stuff recently) is short sighted. If the team stays together why should we not be able to do a Newcastle next season?
Though would like to point out though for no reason of course... there is a very astute and strong manager in charge of Croatia...
Barry Rathbone
"it's just like "record breakers" with Moyes."
Lately you really have made me laugh!! We used to be poles apart in our views, but we seem to have more in common than I thought possible. We only have the one loser in our club, we both know who, but have different ideas on how to remove him!!
"it's just like "record breakers" with Moyes."
Lately you really have made me laugh!! We used to be poles apart in our views, but we seem to have more in common than I thought possible. We only have the one loser in our club, we both know who, but have different ideas on how to remove him!!
Geoff, he has beaten those teams on one off occasions. Its all very well loking at those points, but why do you not also recognise that Pardew took West Ham through their worst run of results for 70 years? Or the 2 years he destroyed Charlton and had them at the bottom of the Championship? Want to mention his run at Southampton? Shall we not mention Newcastle were knocked out of the FA Cup 3-1 by Stevenage under Pardew?
He has done well this season, hats off to him. But I look for someone consistent, not the new flavour of the month. If Pardew had been unable to sign Djemba Ba and Cisse this season due to a lack of transfer funds, how do you think they would have fared? Thats right, the squad is mid table at best.
He has done well this season, hats off to him. But I look for someone consistent, not the new flavour of the month. If Pardew had been unable to sign Djemba Ba and Cisse this season due to a lack of transfer funds, how do you think they would have fared? Thats right, the squad is mid table at best.
Dan, all that you say and yes, the steadfast, year-on-year lack of help to progress from the Board, doesn't obviate the fact that we once again, under Moyes, threw it away.
He's making a fine job of perpetuating the adage "one thing you can guarantee with Everton...they will always let you down".
Gutted again and this time we can't even be bitter about anything; we got what we deserved.
He's making a fine job of perpetuating the adage "one thing you can guarantee with Everton...they will always let you down".
Gutted again and this time we can't even be bitter about anything; we got what we deserved.
Dan, fair enough. Moyes oversaw the lowest points total in Everton's history in his second season. The difference? Moyes retained the support of his board, Pardew didn't. How many clubs would retain the services of their manager after an 'achievement' like that? Not many I would've thought. I wasn't trying to contend the comparative merits of each manager mentioned above, I was just trying to make the point that there are plenty of potential alternatives out there who, with 10 years of unconditional support from their chairman, could do just as good, if not a better job, than Moyes has done. It is also conceivable that they wouldn't of course. I was just trying to contend the point that a lot on here make that we would go to shit without Moyes. I don't necessarily accept that argument.
Good point Geoff.
Dan / Nick - the whole club is stale and the relatively good run of that last couple of months cannot mask the absolute shite of the first 5.
For both Moyes' and the clubs sake, I think it would be best for both to part company. A new manager would give new impetus and momentum to the team as well as the whole club and I cannot accept this 'better the devil you know' mentality that so many fans seem to have. Its been 10 years ffs, do you not want to see something different rather than the usual nick one and see tactics?
One of the main reasons (IMO) that BK has had it easy is becuase Moyes tows the party line. If he gives BK no trouble BK lets him do pretty much whatever he wants with very low expectations. If you're happy for that to continue for another 5 years (god help us all!) then thats your choice I guess and you're entitled to think that way.
Hopefully, Moyes will man up himself, put the 65k a week to one side and decide that he has taken Everton as far as he can and wants a new challenge somewhere else. Once Moyes goes, we will have a much better chance of ousting BK if the new manager has some gonads and wont take all the bullshit. The entire discussion as to 'who would you have instead' is totally irrelevant. Moyes was a no mark when he came so why is it so hard to believe other managers out there (famous or not) couldn't do a better job?
Am not necesarily chamioning Pardew but what he as done this year is nothing short of amazing (by the way he's paid 500k a year compared to 3m for Moyes!). Ba, Cisse, Cabaye, Tiote combined cost Newcastle 15m in transfer fees - same price as we paid for Fellaini! There ARE very good players out there who won't cost that much - we're just too desperate to hold onto the favourites instead of selling and reinvesting (IMO anyway).
5 games left in the season (4 really as we'll lose at OT). Will we see some of the younger lads given a run out? Velios, Barkely, Duffy, Mcaleny etc. Or will it be business as usual with Cahill, Neville, Macfadden etc. Personally I would like the former as the latter is not part of the future.
I would also like to hear/read about the club trying to sign some/any of the numerous players on a free at the end of the season. Rodallega, Hoilett etc. Instead I guess we will probably do our business on 30 August as usual.
Oh Everton....why oh why?
For both Moyes' and the clubs sake, I think it would be best for both to part company. A new manager would give new impetus and momentum to the team as well as the whole club and I cannot accept this 'better the devil you know' mentality that so many fans seem to have. Its been 10 years ffs, do you not want to see something different rather than the usual nick one and see tactics?
One of the main reasons (IMO) that BK has had it easy is becuase Moyes tows the party line. If he gives BK no trouble BK lets him do pretty much whatever he wants with very low expectations. If you're happy for that to continue for another 5 years (god help us all!) then thats your choice I guess and you're entitled to think that way.
Hopefully, Moyes will man up himself, put the 65k a week to one side and decide that he has taken Everton as far as he can and wants a new challenge somewhere else. Once Moyes goes, we will have a much better chance of ousting BK if the new manager has some gonads and wont take all the bullshit. The entire discussion as to 'who would you have instead' is totally irrelevant. Moyes was a no mark when he came so why is it so hard to believe other managers out there (famous or not) couldn't do a better job?
Am not necesarily chamioning Pardew but what he as done this year is nothing short of amazing (by the way he's paid 500k a year compared to 3m for Moyes!). Ba, Cisse, Cabaye, Tiote combined cost Newcastle 15m in transfer fees - same price as we paid for Fellaini! There ARE very good players out there who won't cost that much - we're just too desperate to hold onto the favourites instead of selling and reinvesting (IMO anyway).
5 games left in the season (4 really as we'll lose at OT). Will we see some of the younger lads given a run out? Velios, Barkely, Duffy, Mcaleny etc. Or will it be business as usual with Cahill, Neville, Macfadden etc. Personally I would like the former as the latter is not part of the future.
I would also like to hear/read about the club trying to sign some/any of the numerous players on a free at the end of the season. Rodallega, Hoilett etc. Instead I guess we will probably do our business on 30 August as usual.
Oh Everton....why oh why?
Nick, my post is not based on the argument that a manager should be sacked for reaching a semi final, far from it. I said on another thread that I am surprised that the defeat was the final straw for some people.
Both teams were poor yesterday and we could easily have played badly and won. Lately we have played some good stuff. The reasons for our defeat have been discussed on other threads and to me they are fundamentally connected to the mindset of David Moyes and go back a long way. I would happily have seen him gone before he signed his last contract.
OF course he won't be sacked but I believe he will go if offered the Spurs job. If that happens part of me to some extent will feel like a safety net has been taken away but overall I will see it as a new opportunity.
The last few weeks have been in some ways been a miniature version of Moyes's reign,that's why I am surprised that any of his supporters would desert him after yesterday.
Both teams were poor yesterday and we could easily have played badly and won. Lately we have played some good stuff. The reasons for our defeat have been discussed on other threads and to me they are fundamentally connected to the mindset of David Moyes and go back a long way. I would happily have seen him gone before he signed his last contract.
OF course he won't be sacked but I believe he will go if offered the Spurs job. If that happens part of me to some extent will feel like a safety net has been taken away but overall I will see it as a new opportunity.
The last few weeks have been in some ways been a miniature version of Moyes's reign,that's why I am surprised that any of his supporters would desert him after yesterday.
I have always been one of those fans who, looking at the whole picture, results, off the pitch situations etc, who has backed Moyes. Possibly nobody could have kept us going for as long without us sinking. I do believe that under a different manager we would have gone down, long ago.
However, I have reached my own personal watershed with Moyes. He has done well in many aspects of the joband has given us back some pride. Problem is, in doing so he raised the bar, the stakes are now nearer what I as an Evertonian believe we should be aiming forand to be totally honest, he just aint going to ever make that step. We are Everton, a once mighty club in English football. Now, we are just also-rans who will never break into the top four again, unless we take a chance.
It could all go wrong, but if we play chicken and never try, then are we really Everton!! I dont want any more of this "over-achieving" bullshit. I wany us to hold our heads up and go for it. Winner takes all. No more settling for nearly men, as we have done for as long as I care to remember, but a bold and aggresive approach where we score a goal and then go get another, you know, that winning mentallity that we just aint got.
I want us to be world beaters, but before we get there, we have to beat this mental block that has held us back for so long. I want to see a team that "Dixie" would want to be part of. A team that "Ball" would be proud of. A team that "Southall" and "Ratcliffe" could say, YES, this is our team, we can and we will win. I want us to have that "Peter Reid" do or die mentallity that made us so good to watch and that made us so hard to beat. Remember, winning is in the mind and if you believe, truely believe, then all things are possible.
However, I have reached my own personal watershed with Moyes. He has done well in many aspects of the joband has given us back some pride. Problem is, in doing so he raised the bar, the stakes are now nearer what I as an Evertonian believe we should be aiming forand to be totally honest, he just aint going to ever make that step. We are Everton, a once mighty club in English football. Now, we are just also-rans who will never break into the top four again, unless we take a chance.
It could all go wrong, but if we play chicken and never try, then are we really Everton!! I dont want any more of this "over-achieving" bullshit. I wany us to hold our heads up and go for it. Winner takes all. No more settling for nearly men, as we have done for as long as I care to remember, but a bold and aggresive approach where we score a goal and then go get another, you know, that winning mentallity that we just aint got.
I want us to be world beaters, but before we get there, we have to beat this mental block that has held us back for so long. I want to see a team that "Dixie" would want to be part of. A team that "Ball" would be proud of. A team that "Southall" and "Ratcliffe" could say, YES, this is our team, we can and we will win. I want us to have that "Peter Reid" do or die mentallity that made us so good to watch and that made us so hard to beat. Remember, winning is in the mind and if you believe, truely believe, then all things are possible.
Geoff, you are fully right. Most clubs would have sacked the manager like Moyes 2nd season. In this case, we didnt and stuck by him, promptly finishing 4th the following season. Since finishing 17th, we have only finished outside the top 8 once despite the lack of finances. Is that not consistency? I am sure you realise there is a direct correlation between how much you have to spend, and where you finish? I honestly don't see Pardew winning anything at Newcastle, nor would he at Everton.
Like I have said before, Moyes signing of Jelavic appears to be another masterstroke. I can see this guy making a big difference next season. And if Barkley and Gueye step up, its going to make a big difference. I don't see us as a team in decline, with nothing to look forward to. I see us making progression. We just need to somehow add to our attacking threat, by bringing in a decent playmaker. If that means one centre half leaving this summer and Duffy to step up, then I think it will be for the best for the club. We don't need a new manager in my eyes, we just need to re-shuffle and find the right player to give the service to what seems to be an excellent all-round striker.
Like I have said before, Moyes signing of Jelavic appears to be another masterstroke. I can see this guy making a big difference next season. And if Barkley and Gueye step up, its going to make a big difference. I don't see us as a team in decline, with nothing to look forward to. I see us making progression. We just need to somehow add to our attacking threat, by bringing in a decent playmaker. If that means one centre half leaving this summer and Duffy to step up, then I think it will be for the best for the club. We don't need a new manager in my eyes, we just need to re-shuffle and find the right player to give the service to what seems to be an excellent all-round striker.
Dan
Latchford had Thomas and Dobson
Lineker had the rest of the team
How the hell are we ever going to get similar quality to support Jelavic?
Latchford had Thomas and Dobson
Lineker had the rest of the team
How the hell are we ever going to get similar quality to support Jelavic?
Phil, I honestly don't know. But 4 months ago, we were asking 'where will this top striker come from'? Low and behold, Moyes seems to have delivered. Do you doubt his ability in the transfer market?
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539 Posted 14/04/2012 at 23:14:30
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