Season 2011-12
The Mail Bag
Liverpool got lucky yesterday...
32 Comments: Liverpool were given the whole second half to come at us; we all knew what was coming second half... we've seen it in every crucial game under Moyes so I'm pretty sure that Kenny knew. Sit back for 45 mins, invite pressure & of course there will be mistakes. Moyes instills fear into the players, Baines is the prime example: yesterday, he was clearly told to play with caution.
If it was Moyes's choice not to include Drenthe then I'm disgusted. I say that as there may be more to it & if so, I can't blame Moyes for it. I'll just stick to blaming him for 10 years of the same old song of trying to hold out in the big games & of Everton being the plucky good guy that loses with dignity with the Head Masters pride coming before the right choice to win big games. Winners do whatever it takes; we don't.
Instead of looking to point out Drenthe's mistakes, as many have in various threads, let's get one thing clear: just about every player on the pitch yesterday has made just as many, if not more crucial mistakes as Drenthe this season but not one of them has had the creative impact Drenthe has. I say on the pitch because clearly neither Donovan or Pienaar were options to us yesterday.
Sunderland is the prime example: yes, Drenthe didn't score & Gueye got all the plaudits but the thing that changed the game was Drenthe running at them, driving at the opposition, taking defenders out and attacking with pace. Against Sunderland Pienaar was on all game but it was only when Drenthe came on he & Gueye got the impetus & space to come alive. Who honestly believes that Drenthe wouldn't have made a difference against Liverpool yesterday? In all honesty, who didn't think yesterday wasn't too big a game for Gueye?
The bigger question is: Does anyone really believe next week's game at Old Trafford won't end the same way? A plucky defeat followed by Ferguson & all the pundits patronising Everton, saying what a great job Moyes has done with limited resources? Sorry, it just doesn't wash; Moyes limits the resources he does have by not playing to their strengths (pick any striker under his tenure as an example; I'm sure Jelavic didn't enjoy being so isolated all second half yesterday...) and by instilling so much fear into the players: sit deep, play with caution, never play your own game, worry about the oppositions all the time.
No knee jerk here ? just a culmination of seeing the same mistakes for 10 years leading to the logical conclusion that Moyes has gone as far as he can & that someone else could get a better outcome with the resources we have.
Steve Jones, Posted 15/04/2012 at 10:19:07
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yeah they got lucky alright....they came up against Moyes
We as supporters need to put our weight behind another manager who we would like for next season to take us forward like Pardrew has for Newcastle.Moyes out is no good,we must have a replacement like Liverpool did when they got rid of Hodgson,they shouted and petitioned for Dalglish and the owners buckled and gave in to the fans.Start a campaign with some managers the fans would like and spread the word for change !,We wont get rid of him for another 10 years if we dont !.
Drenthe was unavailable. Get over it.
You can blame Moyes for the way we played - support for Jelavic in the first half but none in the second. No attempt to look for a winner when it was 1-1 and nearly 15 minutes of instructions for Coleman before he was finally brought on. Liverpool showed they actually wanted to win, we didnt. And no doubt after the United game we will be below the shite again. There is only one way for Moyes to go now - out through the door which should have happened 5 years ago.
I heard Drenthe turned up late for the coach and Moyes took all his tickets for family away, the lad would have made the difference in that game, but if all these rumours are true it's about time the club came out and sacked him instead of giving us this compassionate bollocks.
Just been on SSN Drenthe was disciplined (reason not disclosed).
Back to the OP the one thing about the RS they always fight back, you just can't say that about us.
They've had that since Shanks and Moyes isn't the man to instill bravery.
Back to the OP the one thing about the RS they always fight back, you just can't say that about us.
They've had that since Shanks and Moyes isn't the man to instill bravery.
David 765,I'm being sarcastic! I.e. they won because we did the usual under Moyes of trying to sit on a lead. We all knew it was going to happen & so did Liverpool, we took the lead, the luck came in Liverpool facing such an obvious unfruitful tactic.
Sit deep, invite pressure, don't make any attempt to play our own game, tire ourselves out by hoofing out and watching the opposition coming straight back at us rather than retaining pressure. All hallmarks of the Moyes master plan.
Max 797- I won't get over it, looks like Moyes's diciplinarian head master ego removed the most creative option we had available. We're a club desperate for success not the bloody boy scouts, if as has now been suggested Drenthe was late for training so bloody what,discipline him next week rather than jeopardise our chances yesterday. No other top manager would have put discipline before the club in such a way especially with the complete lack of creativity Moyes has available for the biggest Derby in years.
Mick 798 - Of course I can blame Moyes, who else is responsible for us doing this in every big game we play? Moyes sets us out to be so defensive and sit deep to try & hold onto a lead & if he doesn't he's sat back & watched us do it in every big game for the last 10 years & not sorted it out which is probably worse.
Sit deep, invite pressure, don't make any attempt to play our own game, tire ourselves out by hoofing out and watching the opposition coming straight back at us rather than retaining pressure. All hallmarks of the Moyes master plan.
Max 797- I won't get over it, looks like Moyes's diciplinarian head master ego removed the most creative option we had available. We're a club desperate for success not the bloody boy scouts, if as has now been suggested Drenthe was late for training so bloody what,discipline him next week rather than jeopardise our chances yesterday. No other top manager would have put discipline before the club in such a way especially with the complete lack of creativity Moyes has available for the biggest Derby in years.
Mick 798 - Of course I can blame Moyes, who else is responsible for us doing this in every big game we play? Moyes sets us out to be so defensive and sit deep to try & hold onto a lead & if he doesn't he's sat back & watched us do it in every big game for the last 10 years & not sorted it out which is probably worse.
If Drenthe was out because of a misdemeaor then in my book, sadly ,the team suffered and Drenthe should be sent packing.
On reflection of the whole season to date only 2 players merit praise for consistancy,Howard and Baines. The others, either due to injuries,underachievment or just plain not up to standard anymore should be looked at seriously as players to be moved on or out.
Jelavic,Gibson,Fellaini and some of the youngsters we got to see all too little of are the rays of hope for next season.
I know some of the current crop will still be around because of Moyes and his loyalty but it's for sure he has to find money to get Peanuts back.
Apart from Baines the defence is a shambles and has been that way since Jags got his serious injury and has never been the same. Heitinga is nowhere near as good as the old Jags. Distin,Neville and Hibbert just don't cut the mustard anymore.
On reflection of the whole season to date only 2 players merit praise for consistancy,Howard and Baines. The others, either due to injuries,underachievment or just plain not up to standard anymore should be looked at seriously as players to be moved on or out.
Jelavic,Gibson,Fellaini and some of the youngsters we got to see all too little of are the rays of hope for next season.
I know some of the current crop will still be around because of Moyes and his loyalty but it's for sure he has to find money to get Peanuts back.
Apart from Baines the defence is a shambles and has been that way since Jags got his serious injury and has never been the same. Heitinga is nowhere near as good as the old Jags. Distin,Neville and Hibbert just don't cut the mustard anymore.
D'ont shoot the messenger ? deal with the Boss. It's Moyes's hands, but Kenwright's voice. Little wonder Moyes keeps saying he is only committed to Everton under Kenwright.
Our squad is just not good enough. And when bigger events arrive, the shortcomings are exposed. Under Kenwright, without decent investment, we'll never join the top flight. No wonder we always do better in the second half of seasons. 1 or 2 on-loan signings make some difference.
We just need more investment ? not even big as the top 4... maybe like Villa or Newcastle. But that will never be under Kenwright. And he'll only sell under massive supporters' protest.
Keep being nice, and we'll have another decade even worse than the last.
Our squad is just not good enough. And when bigger events arrive, the shortcomings are exposed. Under Kenwright, without decent investment, we'll never join the top flight. No wonder we always do better in the second half of seasons. 1 or 2 on-loan signings make some difference.
We just need more investment ? not even big as the top 4... maybe like Villa or Newcastle. But that will never be under Kenwright. And he'll only sell under massive supporters' protest.
Keep being nice, and we'll have another decade even worse than the last.
Jagielka was shit, is shit and always will be shit. He is a remnant of a bygone era and his type has no place in modern football.
He would be quite high up on my list of people I would like shipped out of Everton alongside Moyes, Round, Osman, Neville and Cahill.
There is no future for Everton with these second rate dinosaurs at the helm.
He would be quite high up on my list of people I would like shipped out of Everton alongside Moyes, Round, Osman, Neville and Cahill.
There is no future for Everton with these second rate dinosaurs at the helm.
Well said Nick. Unfortunately as long as Moyes remains, Osman,Neville and Cahill will remain in the first team. Time to cash in on Jags too if the Arse are still interested.
So Drenthe fucked up... so what? He is our best attacking player by a mile and shitbag stubborn twat Moyes should've bit his tongue and played the lad yesterday. Put the club and the fans before Jock twat high-horse sergeant major bullshit. We had fuck all to offer yesterday, not a single shot on target apart from the gifted goal.
I detest everything Moyes stands for. He is a nitpicking fussy twat who thinks he is back in the Brian Clough days. Well that shit doesn't work with players anymore. The world's greatest players have nearly all been flawed in some respect but good managers just sucked it up because they knew they can win games. George Best, Maradonna ? to name but two. Both complete headcases but you wouldn't drop them if fit.
I told you way back in late November that Ross Barkley had a run-in with Moyes and he hasn't been seen since. In fact, he has been demoted back with the kids... WTF is going on? Moyes is killing the club and always makes a point of putting the boot into flair players. Rooney was the first and it's still going on now... Why the fuck there are still fans out there defending this guy, I don't know.
I would sooner get relegated and try to get back up if it meant getting shut of Davey Mouse rather than put up with more of his miserable shitbag antics.
Yesterday should be the end of any dwindling support this crab twat Moyes had left. How many more spankings by the RS can you take before you wake up???
I detest everything Moyes stands for. He is a nitpicking fussy twat who thinks he is back in the Brian Clough days. Well that shit doesn't work with players anymore. The world's greatest players have nearly all been flawed in some respect but good managers just sucked it up because they knew they can win games. George Best, Maradonna ? to name but two. Both complete headcases but you wouldn't drop them if fit.
I told you way back in late November that Ross Barkley had a run-in with Moyes and he hasn't been seen since. In fact, he has been demoted back with the kids... WTF is going on? Moyes is killing the club and always makes a point of putting the boot into flair players. Rooney was the first and it's still going on now... Why the fuck there are still fans out there defending this guy, I don't know.
I would sooner get relegated and try to get back up if it meant getting shut of Davey Mouse rather than put up with more of his miserable shitbag antics.
Yesterday should be the end of any dwindling support this crab twat Moyes had left. How many more spankings by the RS can you take before you wake up???
I sat on my sofa in front of the TV on Saturday night here in Oz, expecting to see my beloved Everton triumph over the Dark Side... but what did I see? I saw a team that looked like they where there just to make up the numbers.
So here are a few questions I would like answered:
So here are a few questions I would like answered:
- Why Oman? He is invisible in all big games.
Why Coleman? He was never the answer. - Why move Fellaini up front and drop Cahill back, nstead of taking Cahill off and bringing on a attacking player?
- Why was there no Drenthe in the squad??
- Why Moyes do you always play the same set-up every game?
- Why Moyes are you so defensive all the time?
- But the one question I want answered most of all is: Why Moyes are you still here?
Answer? Kenn, Moyes is a useless twat. Fresh face needed, fresh ideas. Its beyond a joke now.
Yes Moyes is so useless. This is clearly shown by the fact we are 7th in the league. And managing this with all the rubbish players we have as well. He has no idea does he.
The players bottled it big time . They didn't have the courage to pass it, it wasn't Moyes who told them to sit back it was the players who got frightened when they went 1-0 up and they just sat back. Liverpool got the spur and it was clear by the 30min that we weren't in it.
2nd half was easy for Liverpool , Gibson, Fellaini, Osman went hiding and poor Magaye was never at the races from the off and all the defence could do was to hoof it.
Moyes had no options left, he didn't have anyone on the bench who could come on and get a grip of the ball (Pinnear cuptied, Drenthe went AWOL, Barkley clearly isn't anywhere ready yet) .
Neville was absolutely right in his post match interview - we never had the courage to pass - stop blaming Moyes for every bloody mistake the players make
2nd half was easy for Liverpool , Gibson, Fellaini, Osman went hiding and poor Magaye was never at the races from the off and all the defence could do was to hoof it.
Moyes had no options left, he didn't have anyone on the bench who could come on and get a grip of the ball (Pinnear cuptied, Drenthe went AWOL, Barkley clearly isn't anywhere ready yet) .
Neville was absolutely right in his post match interview - we never had the courage to pass - stop blaming Moyes for every bloody mistake the players make
We have the basis of a good team (not squad) but wht we are really missing is a Peter Reid or Andy Gray type of player to come in with a winning mentality and force that belief into those payers that bottled it yesterday. Not sure what players are out there like that at the moment though.
The problem is though Al, those type of players will tell it how it is, can't really see Moyes going down that road, could you?
965 and 967 - You'd think Moyes drew these players out of the hat instead of being the ONE responsible for signing them, paying them, training and coaching them and instructing them (oh and motivating them - supposedly). Wake up - he instills fear in the ones he can bully yet he hasn't got the balls to tell Cahill and Neville (and, for me, that agoraphobic goalkeeper) that they're not good enough.
A lot of very true comments from most here and the truth is that Moyes is the real culprit.
I don't need to go over all the problems he himself has created over the years suffice it to say he is not good enough for this club.
Until he goes nothing will change.
It's just sad that he is still the manager after losing to Redshite 3 times in one season.
Thank God we didn't draw Redshite in the league cup!
I said way back in this column that Everton were a mediocre mid-table team and after the second half performance yesterday I think I over-rated them.
I don't need to go over all the problems he himself has created over the years suffice it to say he is not good enough for this club.
Until he goes nothing will change.
It's just sad that he is still the manager after losing to Redshite 3 times in one season.
Thank God we didn't draw Redshite in the league cup!
I said way back in this column that Everton were a mediocre mid-table team and after the second half performance yesterday I think I over-rated them.
I wouldnt say the players are rubbish Aiden, well, not all of them! But its up to the manager to get it right with what he has got, and everytime when it matters most Moyes has failed. You might be over the moon with a 7th place finish, probably lower at the end of season, and a semi final appearance but i dont think that is good enough for Everton F.C. We deserve better.
Aiden # 965,
Any manager worth his salt needs only to play negative defensive crap from the start of season and he will avoid relegation.
Any manager worth his salt who has been secure in his job for 10 years and always plays negative defensive crap will or should end up in the top half of the league.
Whatever Everton has or has not achieved is down to Moyes.
Taking into consideration the above factors he does not have much to boast about eh'..
Any manager worth his salt needs only to play negative defensive crap from the start of season and he will avoid relegation.
Any manager worth his salt who has been secure in his job for 10 years and always plays negative defensive crap will or should end up in the top half of the league.
Whatever Everton has or has not achieved is down to Moyes.
Taking into consideration the above factors he does not have much to boast about eh'..
If you think we lost because Liverpool got lucky then I'm afraid you're delusional. We lost because we choked when it matters.
Bad boy Drenthe will probabaly end up at Anfield with the likes of Suarez and Bellamy. There is no love lost there between him and Moyes.
When Cahill, who now offers nothing in terms of goals or midfield creativity, is first choice and should have been dragged off on Saturday, it speaks volumes for the shit we have to endure under Moyes.
At 1-1, he should have been screaming at them to go for it, get a grip in midfield, the best he could do was to put Fellaini up and revert to long ball hoofs. Dispicable, defeatist shit.
When Cahill, who now offers nothing in terms of goals or midfield creativity, is first choice and should have been dragged off on Saturday, it speaks volumes for the shit we have to endure under Moyes.
At 1-1, he should have been screaming at them to go for it, get a grip in midfield, the best he could do was to put Fellaini up and revert to long ball hoofs. Dispicable, defeatist shit.
I think DM wanted to rest a few players for the United game :-(
Chris, he doesn't need to rest players against the Mancs, because the only energy we exert at Old Trafford, is when we bend over and let the Mancs give it to us up the arse, once again.
Alex ? I am not over the moon with 7th but am realistic to understand this is a good posistion with the resources we have.
Dick ? I think to argue any manager worth his salt can set up his team the same way as Moyes and finish top 10 is clearly flawed, or there must be some seriously poor managers in the Prem.
I want to see Everton winning things & playing the style of football some of us might remember the blues playing in years gone by. However, I just don't think it can happen without the resources to buy players capable of it. If you try with players not good enough, you will do a Blackpool: get plaudits but go down.
Dick ? I think to argue any manager worth his salt can set up his team the same way as Moyes and finish top 10 is clearly flawed, or there must be some seriously poor managers in the Prem.
I want to see Everton winning things & playing the style of football some of us might remember the blues playing in years gone by. However, I just don't think it can happen without the resources to buy players capable of it. If you try with players not good enough, you will do a Blackpool: get plaudits but go down.
I can't believe someone has posted a thread like this.
Liverpool DID NOT get lucky. We were sh!te!!! The team was all over the place with the exception of a few short periods during the game.
Our goal, whilst not against the run of play, was fortunate and doubly fortunate it fell to Jalevic who is a quality finisher.
That's all I have to say on the matter.
Liverpool DID NOT get lucky. We were sh!te!!! The team was all over the place with the exception of a few short periods during the game.
Our goal, whilst not against the run of play, was fortunate and doubly fortunate it fell to Jalevic who is a quality finisher.
That's all I have to say on the matter.
Anthony # 195 I wholeheartedly agree, Liverpool were not lucky and its not down to the manager its down to the players on the park who bottled it ! They seem to have a massive inferiority complex against Liverpool and its nothing new.
The TEAM were on the defensive and looking to hang on throughout the game and the men on the bench were not good enough to be able to turn the tide of the game.
NO MANAGER can bring more success without FUNDS to strengthen our ageing and mediocre squad.
Moyes may not be everyone's cup of tea but he has been MOTHER HUBBARD for years and we are in big danger of relegation if we persevere with CAHILL, NEVILLE,DISTIN,OSMAN and HIBBO....they have all been decent pro's but are getting to the end of their days....looking at our kids we have no adequate replacements and the players who DO make a difference are on loan !!
Pienaar and Drenthe will not stay and go down with the ship, they will be in the first life boat.
Contrary to some comments on this article, I reckon Jags and Baines must be kept and a team built around them otherwise its 'man the life boats'
The TEAM were on the defensive and looking to hang on throughout the game and the men on the bench were not good enough to be able to turn the tide of the game.
NO MANAGER can bring more success without FUNDS to strengthen our ageing and mediocre squad.
Moyes may not be everyone's cup of tea but he has been MOTHER HUBBARD for years and we are in big danger of relegation if we persevere with CAHILL, NEVILLE,DISTIN,OSMAN and HIBBO....they have all been decent pro's but are getting to the end of their days....looking at our kids we have no adequate replacements and the players who DO make a difference are on loan !!
Pienaar and Drenthe will not stay and go down with the ship, they will be in the first life boat.
Contrary to some comments on this article, I reckon Jags and Baines must be kept and a team built around them otherwise its 'man the life boats'
Jason Lam 096 - The title is sarcasm! If you read my article the whole point is we reverted to type & I bet Kenny couldn't believe his luck. We sat deep to try & hold onto a lead like rabbits in the headlights, inviting pressure & mistakes. Clearly the people who published the article & those who have commented in agreement understood the sarcasm.
Anthony please see 271 above, to be clear to everyone THE TITLE IS SARCASM!
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765 Posted 15/04/2012 at 13:13:41
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