Season 2011-12
The Mail Bag

Lack of Drive

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Are Everton the slowest team in the premier league? It was embarassing watching us against Liverpool to find out that our so-called fastest players aren't even that quick.

Distin was getting done by what we thought was the immobile Andy Carrol. Baines was getting ripped to shreds by Stewart Downing (who isn't even that fast) and......oh no wait they are our only 'fast' players.

Then you get the next bracket of players like Jelavic, Pienaar, and Heitinga who are just about quick enough but makeup for it through having great football brains. The rest are pedestrian. Is there a slower central midfield pairing than Fellaini and Gibson in the league? Slow in mind, slow in body.

They rely on our defense against lesser teams and players like Jelavic and Pienaar to make the play and get the goals. When we're against better opposition and the balls not sticking up front they just revert to blanket defense. Fine if you're a goal up like against City or Chelsea, but not when you give the goal away and need to find another one.

We made Spearing look like Makelele and Gerrard look like he was 21 again. He's over 30, our midfield should be running all over him (like most in the prem have this season) instead we give him all the time and space he wants to pick his hollywood balls.

On Saturday a Liverpool player would often lose possession but get it back quicker than the Everton player who had taken it from them could get to their own tackle. I don't know how we've survived in the premier league for so long without this fundamental asset. Largely because we've had solid defenses and players like Arteta and Pienaar who can dominate lesser teams.

Coleman had pace when he first burst onto the scene, as does Rodwell but he never uses it, Drenthe was supposes to be one of Europe's fastes players but that seemed to dissolve as well. It's a bad sign when Phil Neville and Hibbert are making the team for their 'pace', both are good positionally (how many times did Neville get done in compariosn to Baines on Saturday?) but are in no ways quick.

We never counter attack, we always wait for the opposition to shuffle back behind the ball then we play some ridiculous sort of drudging march slowly making our way up the pitch before trying to conjure up a cross when the opposition have a packed defense. It's a ridiculous footballing strategy that only works against the lesser teams and if you in front and get lucky against big teams.

No team can win anything without pace. We need a whole new midfield and someone in a number 10 role to play behind Jelavic. Gueye is not the answer, not quick enough. Pienaar's level of pace should be the minimum requirement for our team (and he's not even that fast). The difference Donovan made when he came was there for all to seee, having a player to use as an outlet with the technical ability to provide assists and socre. Seen any goals like the one against Villa since he left?

You can carry players like Osman, Fellaini, Gibson or Cahill in your team if there's only one of them and they have pacy players around them. You can't pack your whole team with them. The top clubs just don't stand for it, that's why Gibson didn't make it. United have one slow player and that's Paul Scholes who quite frankly doesn't need to run he's that good. Arsenal don't have any, and Liverpool don't, Maxi is their slowest and Dalglish said that's why he doesn't play as much.

Major squad overhaul needed in the summer. Let's hope some of the academy kids are rapid and manage to sustain their speed for longer than a few games in this Everton side.


James Martin, Liverpool     Posted 15/04/2012 at 22:57:52

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James Stewart
084   Posted 16/04/2012 at 01:25:56

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Been saying for Years we majorly lack any pace. that is why drenthe is so key to offering something different. We are very pedestrian. To be fair though I think Distin is one of the quickest players in the league. We need attacking pace.
Russell Buckley
106   Posted 16/04/2012 at 05:26:06

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Yes we can always do with more naturally fast players but my bigger concern is the sytle of play doesn't encourage quick counter attacks.

We have had players with pace in Drenthe, Coleman, Donovan etc but they aren't used as attacking weapons like they should be.

In most occassions Moyes' system restricts the use of pace to chasing long balls pumped from the backs or rushing to the far corner only to hit a soft cross or back pass so we can keep the ball and knock it around 10 times before losing it without a shot.

Where is the running into channels, attacking through balls on the ground to scare the fullbacks...
Mick Davies
113   Posted 16/04/2012 at 06:51:15

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Moyes always falls out with attacking players with pace or natural goalscoring ability. He prefers square pegs in round holes, as long as they don't rock the boat. Cue Jelavic leaving in the next year or two
Russell Buckley
114   Posted 16/04/2012 at 07:11:09

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They way Jelavic is playing now suggest we won't be able to match the offers that come in for him soon enough.

One of the few positives at the monment..looks like a top top player so far. Also credit where credits due I though Fellaini tried his backside off in the semi and played well.

I also see Drenthe was dropped for behaviour problems. At this stage I don't care if he turned up half cut to training we needed him in the game.
Eugene Ruane
116   Posted 16/04/2012 at 07:20:23

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There's a lad called Ross Barkley who appears to have that 'Rooney-style pace' that can cause damage.

In other words not, on the face of it, that fast, but if the ball's five yards away, he'll beat Usain Bolt to it.

(not sure who he plays for these days but I wish we had him at Everton)
Derek Williams
119   Posted 16/04/2012 at 08:09:08

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The longer Ross B isn't in the team the better player he is becoming in the minds of many people. He clearly does have talent, and a future, but let's not hype him into being something he can't ever live up to.

Comparisons with Rooney at this stage are a bit over the top surely, the lad has only played a handful of games (cue response 'and whose fault is that then'??)

Now may well be the time to give him plenty of game time as we head into the final few games, with bugger all at stake but me, I'd rather wait and see, with fingers crossed.
Eugene Ruane
123   Posted 16/04/2012 at 08:30:46

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Derek what IS over the top is your interpretation of my post.

I didn't make 'Comparisons with Rooney', I made a comparison with ONE (relevant to the OP) speed-related aspect of Rooney's game and certainly didn't 'hype him into something he can't ever live up to'

(talk about slanting a post).

I'm sure as you say he's paying a blinder every week 'in the minds of many people', personally, I'd rather see him playing for Everton.

Imo, he's a talented robust lad and appears to have the personality to get on with it.

If we were City and could 'afford' to leave him in the reserves for a couple of years while our team of mature, 30 million pound players did the business, then fine but...we're not.

He should have been played much more this season imo.



John Keating
130   Posted 16/04/2012 at 08:58:47

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Derek we'll never know how good Barkley is unless we play him.
Obviously he can't be that bad in the scheme of things if he's getting a call up for England - at any level !
Our season is well and truly over. Why not play him in the remaining few games.
Let him sample Old Trafford lets see how he copes there. OK if he's shite, well he's in good company with the shite we've already got.
Give Duffy the remaining games as well.
They and a couple more are the future.
If they're old enough they're good enough.
They have to learn and make mistakes sometimes. In my opinion they'll never have a better opportunity than these last few games
Barry Rathbone
133   Posted 16/04/2012 at 08:49:18

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Trouble is formation and structure is everything with Moyes and pace and creativity ain't that important in a set piece battle.

When Pienaar returned he looked transformed almost jet heeled over that first few yards, compare the spurs ethos and you can see why

The Donovan comment is spot on, I'd venture if he stayed a season he'd be a leaden footed shadow within 6 months.

How long will it be before Jelavic is fucked up by the anti football?

Pace, creativity - critics have been banging this drum for years but comfortably avoiding relegation allowing match goers to nap while sucking everton mints has some merit.

Surely?
Simon Atkins
161   Posted 16/04/2012 at 11:02:43

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Moyes for me can spot players, his record (in the main) is there for all to see.

Trouble is that we always work with one arm tied behind our backs in the transfer window as we do not have a pot to piss in. To me this, once again, lies at the door of the board. Still looking for investment/buyers to take us forward.

I am starting to lose faith in Moyes after that derby and the second half capitulation against this weekend but i do believe he should be given the chance to show what he can do with some proper investment.

Over to you Bill...
Aiden Jones
162   Posted 16/04/2012 at 11:01:32

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Didn't realise how slow Gibson was until Saturday, and unfit, his tracking back was terrible.Combined with his poor passing meant he had a shocker.

Very good point about lack of pace in team, meant we could never get up and support the isolated Jelavic. One instance in second half when we hit a poor corner and they broke quickly with Henderson, Downing and Gerrard all bursting 60 yards to help Suarez with our boys yards behind. We could never break like that. You can buy quick players, but maybe we can't afford good ones? (Or average ones like Downing...)

Do think calling Fellaini slow in mind is harsh though.
Colin Ryan
168   Posted 16/04/2012 at 11:21:54

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I too noticed our lack of pace. Baines looked very slow on Saturday and we had 2 very slow central midfielders.

Surprised no one has mentioned Fellaini for the winning goal. He was marking Carroll and he didn't even leave the ground in an attempt to win the ball. Was a shocking effort from a £15m player who some Everton fans still seem to idolise. The guy is and always has been lazy. If anyone offers £10m we should snap the hand off them.
Ryan Holroyd
169   Posted 16/04/2012 at 11:32:59

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How can anyone say Fellaini is lazy? That's idiotic. He covers more ground than the majority if players in the premier league.
Amit Vithlani
170   Posted 16/04/2012 at 11:24:28

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Our players are not useless and slow all of a sudden, and dont lack drive (at least not all of them). The problem was that, as a collective, we were not set up to push Liverpool back.

In school, I was taught that one goes to close down, you all go. You do it as a pack, and your back line pushes up so you are pressing in a much smaller space, allowing you to waste less energy. Its not rocket science.

Instead, we allowed gaps to emerge between the rest of the team and front players. Carroll was allowed to play right up against our centre halves and consistently had midfield runners ready to support him.

Distin on a leg race would outpace most strikers. But if he has to watch for the cavalry left and right there will inevitably be hesitation and he may look slower.

If the management had set up to push Liverpool back and then found these tactics were failing, then rather watching like a bunch of plebs we should have changed personnel at half-time or soon after. Given Big Vic or Straq a go alongside Jelly, or even Coleman in place of Ossie.

To sit their like puddings was inviting disaster, which is eventually what happened. Sitting back against the shite has never worked. They get the ball wide, load crosses into the box or through the middle. We have to avoid this mentality in the future.
Anthony Millington
172   Posted 16/04/2012 at 11:44:32

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We had nothing on the bench to bring on and help us across the finish line. We badly needed a Drenthe or Pienaar available, but instead Coleman came on and Osman to left mid. No outlet, Distin mistake= game over.

I don't know what Drenthe has done, but we could have put him on the bench and I think Everton fans would rather he came on than Coleman to give Everton a bigger threat and better chance of winning. Why let Liverpool off the hook and make it easier for them by not including him?
Steve Sweeney
173   Posted 16/04/2012 at 11:44:52

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Here is a linke to an article in the Mail,<
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2130214/David-Moyes-leave-Everton.html
br />

Ambitious MOyes, are they fucking joking?
His lack of ambition is what is holding us Back.
I just wish he starts to believe all this hype in the press and walks. I doubt it though, Far easier to cosy up to BK and mug him for another Grand a Week.
Saturday will definately be my last Everton game untill both of them go.
I have had enough can't take it anymore.
We should have fucking walloped them ,
Kevin Tully
175   Posted 16/04/2012 at 11:49:49

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From Football 365 today "While it should be acknowledged that Everton's team cost substantially less than Liverpool's, there is something of a fallacy about claims that the Toffees team was bought with pennies. Indeed, the total expense was near enough the same as the Newcastle team currently punching above their weight in fifth, with sizeable fees paid for Nikica Jelavic, Marouane Fellaini, John Heitinga, Phil Jagielka and Leighton Baines. There are many other clubs in the Premier League whose teams were cheaper to assemble than Everton's and yet would have been able to overcome Liverpool at Wembley."

Please people, stop excusing this man with lies that we have had to play reserves in his 10 years at our club. Oh - and he gets paid £3m a season !
Aiden Jones
179   Posted 16/04/2012 at 11:57:58

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He may have spent money on those players, but this is apread over a few years. Not like he had the money to get them all at once. Liverpool spend more in one summer/transfer window.
Fellaini isn't lazy - slow yes.
Anthony Hawkins
192   Posted 16/04/2012 at 12:15:42

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The team as a whole IS slow and that is shown against most of the big teams What we're good at is defending and build up play. We also have a core of 6 or 7 players who MAKE The team:

Howard (questionable but the best we can afford)
Distin
Heitinga/Jagielka
Baines
Fellaini
Gibson
Jelavic

These should be the first names on the sheet every week. The rest are either on loan or just not up to it.

Right back position has been a problem area for years yet nothing done about it. Right midfield has equally been missing for a while and we had a quality left midfield until he lost faith and moved on. I hope Pienaar comes back because we NEED him. Having Jalevic has shown how poorly serviced our previous strikers have been - yes he's more clinical by a country mile, but he also shows that when he's playing properly he becomes isolated - which is no fault of his own. I hope Moyes doesn't go and ruin him!!!

There are two BIG games that have shown up the team for what it is and both are the FA Cup. This seasons semi final and last years final.

Osman is just not good enough, especially against the bigger teams or for the big matches. We need Pienaar for next season. I'd also say we NEED Drenthe. Yes he has his problems but we need players who are creative and have pace to support the striker.

Cahill. What to do with him? In my opinion we should have sold him about 3 seasons ago. Yes, he is all that is Everton however has lost it. He's no longer got the energy he used to and without that, he's no use to us. Bolton or Birmingham will take him.

Coleman is another "problem". He's had his injuries and shown he can do some stuff but what has he really shown? Rodwell is another. Both are "fully of promise" but not showing any great shakes.

We need a clear out. The trouble is we have no money for it.
Tom Bowers
200   Posted 16/04/2012 at 13:01:45

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It all comes down to the manager as I have said on numerous occasions. He buys the players, he picks the team and he plans the tactics. In 10 seasons we have acheived nothing. Enough said!
Kevin Tully
207   Posted 16/04/2012 at 13:05:57

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That's just the trouble Tom, posters have actually listed staying in the P.L. as something we should celebrate FFS !

We have been in the top division for over fifty years. How can you possibly compare Everton to Portsmouth and Charlton ?

If our ambition is 40 points before we start every season, it's no wonder we start off like promoted teams, hoping for a few results to go our way and keep it tight.

I still feel as if I have just been to funeral after that shite on Saturday, but let's suck it up and be happy we are not going to get relegated. Unbelievable.
Tom Bowers
213   Posted 16/04/2012 at 13:31:55

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Your right Kevin.
The trouble is that apart from many so-called fans it appears even Kenwright is satisfied just to be in the Prem. with a mediocre set up.
Ray Robinson
228   Posted 16/04/2012 at 13:46:16

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Lack of pace has been a problem throughout Moyes's tenure. To be fair, attackers with pace and control cost an arm and a leg. Even players with pace but little or no footballing ability (e.g. S Wright Phillips) are beyond our means. However, there ARE some reasonable pacey players out there such as the Swansea pair Dyer and Sinclair who wouldn't have cost too much. I have also been impressed by a Reading player whose name escapes me (think it's Kebe).

Moyes may be adept at bringing in value-for-money players in general, but he has consistently failed to find up-and-coming pace players. Marcus Bent had been around the blocks a few times and Johnson was a pacey, albeit headless chicken, but which other attack-minded player have we signed with genuine pace? Drenthe on loan ..... that's it.
Jimmy Sørheim
331   Posted 16/04/2012 at 17:10:23

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I wonder if attendences will go below 30.000 now after pissing away our only real chance of Europa League.
Tom Bowers
377   Posted 16/04/2012 at 18:24:24

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A team with pacy players can always create danger and impact a game at any point.
Okay so Suarez cost a fortune but Bellamy and a few others are much quicker than anything The Blues have. Yes we have Coleman and Drenthe who didn't start but you need more and some of our experienced players are even slower, now that they are older. We have to have a fire sale before next season and no ands,buts or maybe's from Moyes.
Tony Cheek
393   Posted 16/04/2012 at 19:07:50

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Just wonder who will start against United on sunday now....with Moyes halfway up SAFs arse, it could be he makes changes, and wouldnt be surprised if we do our annual "give united 3 pts" thing again.
I dont think Moyes DARE play Barkley now, in case he is brilliant and shows us what could have been.
Eugene Ruane
397   Posted 16/04/2012 at 19:20:06

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You know what Tony?

Not arsed.

My tip is anyone with a few grand spare should 'buy some money'.

Them to win (probably around 1/3)
Ged Dwyer
414   Posted 16/04/2012 at 19:39:24

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James,

'You can carry players like Osman, Fellaini, Gibson or Cahill in your team if there's only one of them and they have pacy players around them.'

You hit the nail on the head with your article and this comment. I have been saying the same for a long time now.

The future was Barkley and Rodwell. Moyes has destroyed Rodwell and is now doing a good job alienating Barkley.
Aiden Jones
503   Posted 16/04/2012 at 22:23:44

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How has Moyes destroyed Rodwell?
Roman Sidey
550   Posted 17/04/2012 at 01:36:50

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Steve Sweeney, the problem is, when a person lacks serious ability but manages to fool a few people, they know it themselves better than anyone. Moyes isn't going to take one of the big jobs as he knows he isn't good enough.
Richard Harris
553   Posted 17/04/2012 at 01:51:29

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Even if we had a player with pace, he wouldn't be allowed to get too far forward just in case he was needed for tracking back for defensive duties....
Si Cooper
558   Posted 17/04/2012 at 02:15:15

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The other week in a thread about why we kept having schizophrenic seasons I suggested that DM might have chosen to train the squad for endurance rather than explosive pace. I still believe this is the case though I don't know if it is an attempt to get the most games out of a threadbare squad, or just due to his preferred training methods.

Up to a couple of seasons ago we did seem capable of moving the ball from back to front quickly on occasion but it does seem as if the players have not even tried to do it this season (presumably being trained to play this way) and we seem to be especially susceptible to it when the opposition attack at speed (perhaps because our players don't even see it in training??). With so little pace throughout the squad(which I have commented on before) it would be hard to even attempt.

I don't know whether the manager considers it to be relatively low on his priorities or whether we are just priced out of the quicker players (Kyle Walker was coming to Goodison at one stage, though I can't remember if we were more interested in him or Kyle Naughton, Landon Donovan is also brought over when a deal can be struck, and Beckford was gambled on when his main threat was due to his pace - and then allowed to go when we didn't have any quick strikers to take his place!).

I actually think Fellaini is quicker than he looks (but not explosive or really quick) but agree that he and Gibson need to have quick players around them to cover their overall lack of pace. Jack Rodwell did have pace but this season it has been hard to judge whether he has lost it or has simply got out of the habit of using it in games. If Ossie had any pace at all he would be a world-beater (and probably playing for some other club).

Definitely need some pacy wide players to be signed this Summer, but that seems like 'pie in the sky' unless they are raw talent plucked from obscurity or a big gamble on players other clubs are washing their hands of.
Liu Weixian
592   Posted 17/04/2012 at 08:29:17

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Attacking players with pace and control do not necessarily cost an arm and a leg. There are plenty of players in the lower divisions who are faster than the average Everton player. When we are talking about the price of a player, we are talking about the worth of his technical ability. It is a fallacy to assume that you need to play loads of money to get quick players.
James Martin
612   Posted 17/04/2012 at 09:24:21

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I actually think its the root of our cautious approach. Moyes buys slow players, he then adaptrs a game plan to their lack of pace. If you're a wide midifielder like Osman (who should only play in the middle) or Gueye and you're up against Stewart Downing or craig bellamy of ocurse you're not oging to go forward because you know that one mistake and you can never get back. They could go forward in complete safety knowing that even if they lost it they could probably turn around run back and get there before the Everrton player had taken their second touch. Cahill always has to cover the middle of the pitch because if Gerrard runs off Fellaini and Gibson (like all of Norwich's team did the moment he came off) they would never be able to catch them. Top teams have quick players all over the park. When you spend 10 million you expect to get a player who isn't as slow as Bilyaletdinov. The same for Fellaini, good as many people think he is, for that price you really expect pace to be one of his attributes.

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