Season 2011-12
The Mail Bag
Will success prolong the agony?
28 Comments: Nobody on Merseyside was happier than me after our team's superb performance at Old Trafford this afternoon.
Although I don't get too exercised by the alleged boredom of Moyes's tactics, I have to admit that the approach to today's game gave new heart to supporting Everton.
However, I was brought back to reality on my way out of the Freshy when one of our brigade remarked "Well that`s bought Kenwright another peaceful pre-season!"
Now I don't believe for one minute that 'Cleggy' will get away with another transferless summer but I can see what the old boy meant.
I have, for some time, felt it was only David Moyes's ability to keep us at the north end of the table that has prevented our club from imploding and the ceremonial burning of season tickets becoming a regular matchday feature.
That belief was enhanced by the very sensible decision of the Blue Union to suspend their protest marches because the team was doing so well. I ask you, who cares a flyng fook about boardroom shenanigans when your team is scoring four goals a game?
However, it does beg the question as to what occurrence ? other than bad results ? can possibly have an impact on the boardroom?
Nobody of my aquaintance EVER wants Everton to lose merely to put pressure on BK, so I think we can be very confident that the longer Our Davey and his squad continue to perform at their present level, the current regime will endure.
More's the pity!
Richard Dodd, Posted 22/04/2012 at 19:10:31
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Well, my take on Kenwright and them's ownership is that Green saw an opportunity to cash in big on that riverside development that collapsed (The £35 million is ring-fenced).
Now, if that had happened, driving up EFC's worth while attracting buyers (which it would have), so Green would make a kicking profit? Hey, God bless. Routine business dealing. Green and them used a fat showbiz impressario, who happened to be an Everton fan, as the front man. So what?br />
If that deal had gone through those years ago, would any of us be bitching about it today? I wouldn't.
Except it didn't happen. Tried again, resulting in EFC playing outside the city limits in an area unsuitable for fan access. A straight-up "fuck you" to supporters.
Doesn't matter where we end up this season or the obvious, positive signs (Christ! Jela just sitting there to have) for next season.
This ownership group is done. They have to sell. They HAVE to sell. Not me wishing it. There's simply nothing left for them to gain by holding on to the Club.
Kenwright OUT!
Now, if that had happened, driving up EFC's worth while attracting buyers (which it would have), so Green would make a kicking profit? Hey, God bless. Routine business dealing. Green and them used a fat showbiz impressario, who happened to be an Everton fan, as the front man. So what?br />
If that deal had gone through those years ago, would any of us be bitching about it today? I wouldn't.
Except it didn't happen. Tried again, resulting in EFC playing outside the city limits in an area unsuitable for fan access. A straight-up "fuck you" to supporters.
Doesn't matter where we end up this season or the obvious, positive signs (Christ! Jela just sitting there to have) for next season.
This ownership group is done. They have to sell. They HAVE to sell. Not me wishing it. There's simply nothing left for them to gain by holding on to the Club.
Kenwright OUT!
Wow... Doddy, Is that really you? Somewhere along the line you have been abducted by aliens...
Must say tho... you're spot on old boy... or young boy, as the case may be!
The Blue Union are looking at ways to bring pressure on Bill Clegg and not relying on results to tip the balance ? although, as you say, this is the only thing that riles people.
You can sell off the silver and mortgage everything, borrow on the future, sell your training center, and rent it back, and appear in Corrie, and people are quite happy, as long as the day's result has gone well!
Prolong? Yes!
Forever? No!
Summer might be a bit different, he will face real pressure then.
Welcome aboard, Richard! :)
Must say tho... you're spot on old boy... or young boy, as the case may be!
The Blue Union are looking at ways to bring pressure on Bill Clegg and not relying on results to tip the balance ? although, as you say, this is the only thing that riles people.
You can sell off the silver and mortgage everything, borrow on the future, sell your training center, and rent it back, and appear in Corrie, and people are quite happy, as long as the day's result has gone well!
Prolong? Yes!
Forever? No!
Summer might be a bit different, he will face real pressure then.
Welcome aboard, Richard! :)
Doddy, the Blue Union didn't "suspend their protest marches because the team was doing so well".
The reasons given at the time were due to rumours of advanced negotiations being in progress for the sale for the Club.
I wonder who may have started those rumours and what became of the potential buyer?
The reasons given at the time were due to rumours of advanced negotiations being in progress for the sale for the Club.
I wonder who may have started those rumours and what became of the potential buyer?
Doddy you and Moyes both seem to be flip-flop merchants. You can keep on f/f but I wish Moyes would stick with the S'land United Personna.
Eric, thanks for the reminder. Given the previous record for 'interested parties' to appear/be conjured up at opportune moments in the past, I was really amazed the BU fell for this one, hook, line and sinker.
How many weeks have passed... and diddly squat in terms of Due Diligence or any such confirmed interest in real 'parties' making any progress... I think I'm right in saying there was not a single story confirming the rumoured interest that supposedly caused BU to shelve their protests... so where does that leave the BU?
If there was any validity in what was claimed, then surely they must soon reinstate their protests? But I don't think they will... and for the reason Doddy cites: because the team is doing reasonably well, and they don't want to rock the boat.
How many weeks have passed... and diddly squat in terms of Due Diligence or any such confirmed interest in real 'parties' making any progress... I think I'm right in saying there was not a single story confirming the rumoured interest that supposedly caused BU to shelve their protests... so where does that leave the BU?
If there was any validity in what was claimed, then surely they must soon reinstate their protests? But I don't think they will... and for the reason Doddy cites: because the team is doing reasonably well, and they don't want to rock the boat.
Michael, until October time when we make our usual shit start to the season and everybody is up in arms again.
Protests start on Sunday afternooons (as when was the last time we actually played at 15.00 on a Saturday?)
January comes, couple of loan signing to patch up the team and we start to play again finishing as the "best of the rest".
Groundhog day, season after season!!!
Protests start on Sunday afternooons (as when was the last time we actually played at 15.00 on a Saturday?)
January comes, couple of loan signing to patch up the team and we start to play again finishing as the "best of the rest".
Groundhog day, season after season!!!
Sorry Eric - but that's bollocks...
Direct Quote from Blue Union Statement released March 9th 2012 taken from website SOS 1878
"..Since that meeting however, David Moyes and the players have managed to effect a significant upturn in form that now offers us the outside chance of UEFA Europa League qualification via the Premiership and, perhaps more significantly, has taken us to a very winnable FA Cup quarter-final at home to Sunderland, with the carrot of a mouth-watering return to Wembley that all of us so desperately crave.
Our motto has been and will remain; ?support the team:oppose stagnation?. Supporting the team will always be our first priority as dedicated Evertonians who love our club and crave success.
With such a significant period of the season now upon us, it would be remiss of us to ignore the wave of feeling that has become apparent over the past few weeks, and indeed the personal feelings of the majority of our officers, all of which together are telling us, very clearly that ?now is the time for unified support, not protest?
Where's the bit about 'Advanced negotiations for the sale of the club, where's the bit about rumours of a sale causing Blue Union to suspend protests...
The best tactics when dealing with a known bullshitter is not to bullshit back - Blue Union (whether you support them or not) suspended their protests because the team was doing well - not because they'd had a tip off that Kenwright was selling the club, not because of rumours spread from where-ever by who-ever... they suspended protests because the team was doing well...
Don't take my word for it - read it, it's in black and white herehttp://www.sos1878.co.uk/everton-news/blue-union-statement-2/
As their website says (which for some reason won't let you open the page with the statement on) - 'Tackling issues- not individuals'
Direct Quote from Blue Union Statement released March 9th 2012 taken from website SOS 1878
"..Since that meeting however, David Moyes and the players have managed to effect a significant upturn in form that now offers us the outside chance of UEFA Europa League qualification via the Premiership and, perhaps more significantly, has taken us to a very winnable FA Cup quarter-final at home to Sunderland, with the carrot of a mouth-watering return to Wembley that all of us so desperately crave.
Our motto has been and will remain; ?support the team:oppose stagnation?. Supporting the team will always be our first priority as dedicated Evertonians who love our club and crave success.
With such a significant period of the season now upon us, it would be remiss of us to ignore the wave of feeling that has become apparent over the past few weeks, and indeed the personal feelings of the majority of our officers, all of which together are telling us, very clearly that ?now is the time for unified support, not protest?
Where's the bit about 'Advanced negotiations for the sale of the club, where's the bit about rumours of a sale causing Blue Union to suspend protests...
The best tactics when dealing with a known bullshitter is not to bullshit back - Blue Union (whether you support them or not) suspended their protests because the team was doing well - not because they'd had a tip off that Kenwright was selling the club, not because of rumours spread from where-ever by who-ever... they suspended protests because the team was doing well...
Don't take my word for it - read it, it's in black and white herehttp://www.sos1878.co.uk/everton-news/blue-union-statement-2/
As their website says (which for some reason won't let you open the page with the statement on) - 'Tackling issues- not individuals'
Good as yesterday was, in the cold light of day we got a draw at United. One point which makes precious little difference to anything and does not make up for the terrible loss at Wembley last week. Ok we played much more attacking football at United but we know that is not Moyes' style and was no doubt prompted by the tremendous volley of criticism he got playing so defensively last week.
And we all know he will soon revert to form and we shall see the same old dross. We may well finish 7th but so what - no trophies, not in Europe and our only glory will be finishing above the red shite - great, thats one to tell the grandchildren.
And no doubt in the summer we will lose one of our stars to raise some cash - Baines most likely but whose to say it wont be Fellaini or even Jelavic who must now be worth upward of 20 million. We will simply be told they wanted to leave to get champions league football.
Nothing has changed - we still have no money so Pienaar signing is not a given. We still have fat Bill in charge and we still have Moyes. Oh how depressing is that!
And we all know he will soon revert to form and we shall see the same old dross. We may well finish 7th but so what - no trophies, not in Europe and our only glory will be finishing above the red shite - great, thats one to tell the grandchildren.
And no doubt in the summer we will lose one of our stars to raise some cash - Baines most likely but whose to say it wont be Fellaini or even Jelavic who must now be worth upward of 20 million. We will simply be told they wanted to leave to get champions league football.
Nothing has changed - we still have no money so Pienaar signing is not a given. We still have fat Bill in charge and we still have Moyes. Oh how depressing is that!
You just can`t cheer up some people but they say depression feeds on itself so there`s no hope of helping you,Mick!
I`m as pissed off as you at the FA Cup roll over but if we finish on a high note with a couple more performances like against Sunderland and the Mancs,I`ll go into the summer looking forward to next season!
I`m as pissed off as you at the FA Cup roll over but if we finish on a high note with a couple more performances like against Sunderland and the Mancs,I`ll go into the summer looking forward to next season!
Doddy
To answer your question...the volume of season-ticket sales should send a warning shot to the Board - but I doubt they'll take any notice and fob it off as regional financial pressures
And my lad was a tad happier Evertonian then you on Sunday - he's making a substantial living from betting on Jelavic
To answer your question...the volume of season-ticket sales should send a warning shot to the Board - but I doubt they'll take any notice and fob it off as regional financial pressures
And my lad was a tad happier Evertonian then you on Sunday - he's making a substantial living from betting on Jelavic
Got to agree with Kevin #750 on this one. At the time of the suspension of the planned protests, the official word from BU was exactly as Kevin has described above. I remember there were rumours knocking about that the 'real' reason was due to the supposed behind the scenes negotiations, that the Club had informed the BU of, but whether any of that is true or not who knows. All I know is that as far as I am concerned, the official BU reasoning was due to good results, and no more. Which, as a BU supporter, pissed me off no end!!!
It is true though that the Club did trot out the old 'currently in discussion with 127 interested parties' or something like that, and no, feck all has materialised...again.
It is true though that the Club did trot out the old 'currently in discussion with 127 interested parties' or something like that, and no, feck all has materialised...again.
Richard Dodd@758 Depressed, of course I am after being robbed of another great day at Wembley and a draw at United will not make up for that. From the adulation on your part you would think we had actually won yesterday but in fact we know that will never happen under Moyes.
So why are you optimistic about next season - we havent suddenly got some money and we will certainly have to sell someone especially if Pienaar is to stay. Are you so stupid Richard that you are fooled because we do well in a couple of games? I hope you enjoy your summer in some kind of fantasy world. The rest of us are stuck with the reality of winning nothing and playing dross defensive football apart from a handful of games.
So why are you optimistic about next season - we havent suddenly got some money and we will certainly have to sell someone especially if Pienaar is to stay. Are you so stupid Richard that you are fooled because we do well in a couple of games? I hope you enjoy your summer in some kind of fantasy world. The rest of us are stuck with the reality of winning nothing and playing dross defensive football apart from a handful of games.
I have been of the opinion that is probably time for a change of management for a couple of years now. The first part of this season being the lowest ebb in that time.
But I just have a feeling that our annual post Christmas upturn in fortunes is a little different to previous years, the reason being the signing of a genuine, top class, predatory goalscorer. How many time in the first half of this season and last did we outplay sides but come out with a draw at best because of our failure to score goals. Combined with the outstanding form of Fellaini I am suddenly a bit more optimistic.
But, do we need a new manager to take us forward from this new platform, somebody who will go for it every week the way we did yesterday.
But I just have a feeling that our annual post Christmas upturn in fortunes is a little different to previous years, the reason being the signing of a genuine, top class, predatory goalscorer. How many time in the first half of this season and last did we outplay sides but come out with a draw at best because of our failure to score goals. Combined with the outstanding form of Fellaini I am suddenly a bit more optimistic.
But, do we need a new manager to take us forward from this new platform, somebody who will go for it every week the way we did yesterday.
Doddy, for months and years you wer the biggest Kenwright supporter on here; sometimes supporting him in the most preposterous fashion (perhaps it was a joke) but now you seem to have seen sense.
So - and this is a serious question - what has made you change your mind?
I ask because as someone who was previously a Kenwright supporter and now seems much less convinced I am curious to know what factors influenced your decision?
So - and this is a serious question - what has made you change your mind?
I ask because as someone who was previously a Kenwright supporter and now seems much less convinced I am curious to know what factors influenced your decision?
Chris
I think Richard finally got around to reading the instructions on his prescription and is no longer swallowing the suppositories
I think Richard finally got around to reading the instructions on his prescription and is no longer swallowing the suppositories
Phil...now that I have stopped laughing ....
I want Kenwright out, but I am clear that right now I am in a minority. Most evertonians, unbelievably still either fall for the romantic Boys' Pen BS or just don't think it is important enough for them to be exercised about. I just don't understand how he manages to con so many people. So Doddy - genuinely - what has brought about this transformation? What issues or arguments have you found most compelling?
I want Kenwright out, but I am clear that right now I am in a minority. Most evertonians, unbelievably still either fall for the romantic Boys' Pen BS or just don't think it is important enough for them to be exercised about. I just don't understand how he manages to con so many people. So Doddy - genuinely - what has brought about this transformation? What issues or arguments have you found most compelling?
Phil, he was actually heard to say "for all the good these suppositories are doing, I might as well be shoving them... " etc
Nb: The above - thought to be the world's oldest suppository gag.
Apparently first told by Rameses lll to Cleopatra's mam (Mrs Ida Patra of Luxor) in the year..er..the olden days.
Nb: The above - thought to be the world's oldest suppository gag.
Apparently first told by Rameses lll to Cleopatra's mam (Mrs Ida Patra of Luxor) in the year..er..the olden days.
Eugene, that suppository gag is currently on a farewell tour of north Wales.
My own personal view is that no matter what the results Kenwright has done his bit and the only way to progress now is for Kenwright to sell the club to "decent" investor.
Blue Union did themselves no favours by cancelling the protest, particularly on the grounds of results going our way. The whole point is that results are temporary under the current regime and they are almost always going to revert to type due to lack of investment.
We only have to look at the response from Fellaini to see even the players are getting frustrated.
Blue Union was set up for a purpose and that purpose still exists, why turn it into a "bad weather" event when in realistic terms, we're experiencing a bit of sunshine during the storm?
Come the summer, Kenwright will be unlikely to prove much if any funds. The protesters will be galvanised again until the results start again and then they'll go back to sleep.
Blue Union did themselves no favours by cancelling the protest, particularly on the grounds of results going our way. The whole point is that results are temporary under the current regime and they are almost always going to revert to type due to lack of investment.
We only have to look at the response from Fellaini to see even the players are getting frustrated.
Blue Union was set up for a purpose and that purpose still exists, why turn it into a "bad weather" event when in realistic terms, we're experiencing a bit of sunshine during the storm?
Come the summer, Kenwright will be unlikely to prove much if any funds. The protesters will be galvanised again until the results start again and then they'll go back to sleep.
"I want Kenwright out, but I am clear that right now I am in a minority." - I certainly hope not Chris
Honestly Tony J, I mean it - most supporters could not be arsed. They don't realise who much sh*t we are in. Just like Mick has described above, it will come to selling one of our best players in the summer, most supporters will simply shrug their shoulders and say "oh well, we haven't got any money" as opposed to asking WHY that is the case.
Most supporters don't come on here and don't realise the litany of failures. They get their news and opinions from the Echo. Just this morning I had a conversation with a colleague who said he supported BK "because at least he is trying to sell the club."
Things are changing slowly but I want to know which of Doddy's buttons were pushed that made him, to coin a phrase, see the light.
Most supporters don't come on here and don't realise the litany of failures. They get their news and opinions from the Echo. Just this morning I had a conversation with a colleague who said he supported BK "because at least he is trying to sell the club."
Things are changing slowly but I want to know which of Doddy's buttons were pushed that made him, to coin a phrase, see the light.
Anthony (#806) you say "Kenwright has done his bit", and I had to laugh. He certainly has. If the back story is correct, and he could've got the money for Kings Dock in exchange for giving up a portion of his shares and stepping down as Chairman, he'd have been sitting on a very valuable asset. 20% of something is always worth more than 30% of nothing. That will be his enduring legacy, and I'd love to know whether he now privately regrets how he dealt with that. I'd also love to know who was advising him.
Chris (#832) I fear you are right about the apathy of the fanbase. If it were just a case of ignorance is bliss, it would be understandable, but the polarisation of the fanbase post-DK has lead to entrenched views on either side, with a fluid middle (a lot like politics). Whilst some of the middle now see the mess we're in for what it is, I fear the rest won't until Administration creeps up.
What people sadly don't see is by Moyes "over-achieving" on the pitch relative to expectations/budget, the day of reckoning approaches more slowly, but it still creeps up. The "tragedy" for the current administration (pun intended) is that last years' big ticket assets (Jagielka and Rodwell) have seen their stock fall. Arteta for £10m was too much to turn down (and arguably would have been even if not forced) and unless BK can continue to take out shady loans to service the debt, then the banks may continue to see Everton's relative decline in revenue (season tickets etc) as further reason to continue to require the paying down of debt.
Not a good position to be in at all.
Chris (#832) I fear you are right about the apathy of the fanbase. If it were just a case of ignorance is bliss, it would be understandable, but the polarisation of the fanbase post-DK has lead to entrenched views on either side, with a fluid middle (a lot like politics). Whilst some of the middle now see the mess we're in for what it is, I fear the rest won't until Administration creeps up.
What people sadly don't see is by Moyes "over-achieving" on the pitch relative to expectations/budget, the day of reckoning approaches more slowly, but it still creeps up. The "tragedy" for the current administration (pun intended) is that last years' big ticket assets (Jagielka and Rodwell) have seen their stock fall. Arteta for £10m was too much to turn down (and arguably would have been even if not forced) and unless BK can continue to take out shady loans to service the debt, then the banks may continue to see Everton's relative decline in revenue (season tickets etc) as further reason to continue to require the paying down of debt.
Not a good position to be in at all.
People go on about Evertonians being a knowledgable bunch, but in reality a large proportion of our fans base their opinions on the last 90 minutes of football/result. Some people are carrying on like we've just done the double!
Yes, we showed some determination but a week too late, the league doesn't matter anymore, Moyes proved that with his derby selection and "should have rested more" statement.
Yes, we showed some determination but a week too late, the league doesn't matter anymore, Moyes proved that with his derby selection and "should have rested more" statement.
If I remember right, the suggestion from the BU lads was that there was something in the offing that they couldn't talk about and a protest wouldn't have helped which was the main reason they jibbed it.
I wonder whether that was the case or Bill pulled another FSF on them.
My own take on it is Bill would do anything to be chairman when we get a bit of success so isn't to worried about pushing the sale and big Phil is happy to wait for his relative peanuts on the off-chance a proper killing to make turns up.
I wonder whether that was the case or Bill pulled another FSF on them.
My own take on it is Bill would do anything to be chairman when we get a bit of success so isn't to worried about pushing the sale and big Phil is happy to wait for his relative peanuts on the off-chance a proper killing to make turns up.
We all rant and rave at various times of the season - notably the first half in this particular case but the defining problem is that for many a year the silverware has been won by either Manure, Arsenal, Chelsea and the RS with the occasional bout of indigestion when Portsmouth or Birmingham come up trumps....by the way where are the last two now and when did Arsenal last win anything ? The simple fact surely is that unless a club has millions at its disposal there is'nt a chance in hell of winning anything. Until and unless we get a sugar daddy we will continue to bob along mid table with the occasional great result. As we showed in the last few games (semi final and derby apart) we can play some great stuff but we are unlikely to overdose on it !
Will success prolong the agony? what success? we haven't had any success since 1995, if you're talking about being patronised by the media ( punching above our weight since 1878 !) and always managing to be the bridesmaid on a limited budget, well then we're world fucking champions at that, wouldn't really call it success myself though. Real success won't prolong the agony, it makes it go away completely, and the more success you have, the further away it gets.
Steve Smith (911) Nail on head.
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704 Posted 23/04/2012 at 00:09:56
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I note there has been no noises about investors, buyers or otherwise... while the team has been performing.
It may not be transferless this summer but, unless Moyes rebuilds and cuts some squad players out, I doubt we'll spend very much at all...