Season 2011-12
The Mail Bag
Chasing the money?
38 Comments: With just four games left to play, what can we expect from David Moyes in terms of team selection and tactics?
As far as the fans are concerned, little can be achieved which will lessen the disappointment of not making a second trip to Wembley. But the bean counters in this cash-strapped club will probably see it differently. With nigh on £1M resting on each league position, there is every reason to expect the manager to go all out to hang on to 7th spot. Indeed, I suspect that the income difference between 7th and say the budgeted 10th is far more than even a Cup victory would garner.
So how will `our man` approach this task? One thing we can certainly rule out is any thought of trying out the youngsters. The likes of Rodwell, Duffy and Vellios will have to wait for another day ? or season, I'm afraid. Also, the pleas we hear for more experimentation involving the senior squad will also be ignored and I fully expect the line-up we saw on duty at Old Trafford to see out the campaign.
Which, of course, brings us to approach and tactics. I have to say I was amazed to hear Moyes use the term 'gung-ho' applied to how he approached the 4-4 draw but, hey, maybe he's been stung into a more positive mindset!
Somehow, I think not, and am already lowering my expectations for this weekend.
After all, 'keeping it tight' got us where we are, so why gamble that precious 7th on a whim?
Richard Dodd, Posted 24/04/2012 at 14:28:39
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Top 10 would be a great achievement.
I will probably buy a poster of the "Moyesiah" and knock one out if he can make all my dreams for Everton come true, what a genius.
I personally don't give a monkeys about the last 4 games, the season is over because a stubborn and arrogant man will not take any responsibility for the fear he instills in his own staff. Whatever he does in these games will have no effect on the "slowly, slowly, catchy pointy" crap he will serve up again next season.
I will probably buy a poster of the "Moyesiah" and knock one out if he can make all my dreams for Everton come true, what a genius.
I personally don't give a monkeys about the last 4 games, the season is over because a stubborn and arrogant man will not take any responsibility for the fear he instills in his own staff. Whatever he does in these games will have no effect on the "slowly, slowly, catchy pointy" crap he will serve up again next season.
I imagine Jack Rodwell probably will have to wait another day or season, as he is injured and not due back until next season. Prior to his injuries, he was playing and even on the England finges, albeit on the back of only a small number of impressive games for Everton.
The lack of inclusion of Velios and Barkley in the past few months is nothing short of baffling, surely coming off the bench would be beneficial both to the team and the players.
The few games we have left should be approached with the pressure off and the freedom to 'go at' teams. The only thing I want to happen in these games is for Tony Hibbert to score, thats it...nothing more, nothing less!
The lack of inclusion of Velios and Barkley in the past few months is nothing short of baffling, surely coming off the bench would be beneficial both to the team and the players.
The few games we have left should be approached with the pressure off and the freedom to 'go at' teams. The only thing I want to happen in these games is for Tony Hibbert to score, thats it...nothing more, nothing less!
The newcastle game will be a good stern test of how we measure up to them. Even if we finish above Liverpool its still a hollow victory for me after losing to them 3 times in one season.
Wow, surprised to see your name at the bottom Doddy. Thought it was tenuous reasoning for a Moyes bash. Read like it to me.
You answered your own doubts on Moyes going with the tried and trusted in wanting 7th. The money gained will be the difference between keeping or buying someone, and yes, Liverpool finishing below is important. A lot more than people will realise if they pip us in the league.
What else a good finish brings is a momentum into next season and one the players can build on, then we may be able to put two halves of a season together in good form.
You answered your own doubts on Moyes going with the tried and trusted in wanting 7th. The money gained will be the difference between keeping or buying someone, and yes, Liverpool finishing below is important. A lot more than people will realise if they pip us in the league.
What else a good finish brings is a momentum into next season and one the players can build on, then we may be able to put two halves of a season together in good form.
The short term means we have to go for the money.
The long term ideal would be to give a few younger players a bit of game time to help their experience and motivate them to push on.
To be fair to Moyes he's not in a position to be looking at long term due to the need for money.
The long term ideal would be to give a few younger players a bit of game time to help their experience and motivate them to push on.
To be fair to Moyes he's not in a position to be looking at long term due to the need for money.
I cannot believe that people are now critisizing Moyes for trying to get the highest place he can. Yes of course we are very interested in the money it will bring especially for a club with very little money like us.
Also the poster mentions Rodwell,Barkley and Velios not being given more game time. Well dont know if the poster is aware but Jack Rodwell has had a recurring hamstring problem for many weeks, so cant see how Moyes is to blame for not playing an injured player.
As for Ross Barkley, no doubt this lad has potential but he missed a large chunk when he broke his leg in 3 places a couple of years back which hasnt helped. But he is no Rooney so let the kid develop, also might be worth asking were you would play Ross at the moment.
I think Velios is probably the unlucky one as he seemed to have done well when he has come on. Also Moyes dropped him from the squad because he felt he wasnt training properly, maybe he had got a bit full of himself and needed bringing down a peg or two.
Also the poster mentions Rodwell,Barkley and Velios not being given more game time. Well dont know if the poster is aware but Jack Rodwell has had a recurring hamstring problem for many weeks, so cant see how Moyes is to blame for not playing an injured player.
As for Ross Barkley, no doubt this lad has potential but he missed a large chunk when he broke his leg in 3 places a couple of years back which hasnt helped. But he is no Rooney so let the kid develop, also might be worth asking were you would play Ross at the moment.
I think Velios is probably the unlucky one as he seemed to have done well when he has come on. Also Moyes dropped him from the squad because he felt he wasnt training properly, maybe he had got a bit full of himself and needed bringing down a peg or two.
We should try 442,we're not going to learn any more from the current formation which we've had since the dawn of time.
Velios and Barkley must be given games,I dont see any reason why we still cant reach 7th with them in the team.
Another thing i'd do is play Coleman at right back to see what he can do from there.Neville is finished (never started) and Hibbert isnt the answer.Coleman will never make it as a winger but could do a job at right back,if he doesnt then finding a new right back becomes a prioity.
Velios and Barkley must be given games,I dont see any reason why we still cant reach 7th with them in the team.
Another thing i'd do is play Coleman at right back to see what he can do from there.Neville is finished (never started) and Hibbert isnt the answer.Coleman will never make it as a winger but could do a job at right back,if he doesnt then finding a new right back becomes a prioity.
For the last season, each league place was worth £756,756 (slightly down from 2009/10 of £800,424).
So based on last season's figures, 2 places would be worth just over £1.5m, or slightly less than Moyes basic annual salary.
I'm a big believer of chasing every point available. although it does seem that as more money flows to players, it correlates with a perceived reduction in desire.
So based on last season's figures, 2 places would be worth just over £1.5m, or slightly less than Moyes basic annual salary.
I'm a big believer of chasing every point available. although it does seem that as more money flows to players, it correlates with a perceived reduction in desire.
No `Moyes bashing ` intended! Just an open,honest question as to how Davey will approach the last few games.
Jon Ferguson - to be fair Martinez, Rodgers and Lambert who you single out. None of them are opperating a squad no where near as expensive as Everton's and their respective wage bills will be small change by comparison. Remember the combined work Martinez & Rogers have done for Sawnsea, and Lamberts back to back promotions with Norwich. Lets just have a bit of perspective please.
Paul David makes some good points. I would like to see Barkley given some game time. Vellios I don't really care about. Lets be honest he aint gonna displace Jelavic.
Coleman I agree on too. Needs to try him as a RB now if thats what he is. He isn't good enough to be a RM so that needs addressing.
Coleman I agree on too. Needs to try him as a RB now if thats what he is. He isn't good enough to be a RM so that needs addressing.
Would an extra one or two million really go into the kitty for new signings? Seriously?
We all know it won't, so why kid yourselves, at best we'll entice some loanee who is on par with the Stracq but personally I think it is pointless whether we finish 7th of 10th. The extra revenue won't be put back into the squad but put back in the pockets of BK.
We all know it won't, so why kid yourselves, at best we'll entice some loanee who is on par with the Stracq but personally I think it is pointless whether we finish 7th of 10th. The extra revenue won't be put back into the squad but put back in the pockets of BK.
Kunal to suggest that any money earned will be put back in the pockets of BK suggests he put his money into the club in the first place. He hasn't nor will he.
It also suggests he has pockets, where you get that idea is beyond me.
Paul (155) That will be the Coleman who in the right back position, a couple of weeks ago at Wembley, gave away a totally unnecessary free kick, in a dangerous position, and left us one goal down with two minutes to go. Seamus has had a bad season, partly due to having played catch up after that bad pre season injury, but I'm still not convinced he's a top level fullback in the making. Sorry but I'd rather see Hibbert or Neville at RB until the end of the season.
Howard
So on the basis of one mistake (huge) that means he cant play there,i'm not convinced if he can play there but we'll never know if he isnt given the chance,one thing I do know is besides doing well last season he is not a winger.
The model full back needs to attack and thats not what Hibbert or Neville's game is about.
So on the basis of one mistake (huge) that means he cant play there,i'm not convinced if he can play there but we'll never know if he isnt given the chance,one thing I do know is besides doing well last season he is not a winger.
The model full back needs to attack and thats not what Hibbert or Neville's game is about.
Don`t rate Coleman,Neville or Hibbert but isn`t the latter worthy of a bit of respect for his contribution over ten years and those two fabulous crosses at Old Trafford?
Phil i'm not saying get rid of Hibbert,just give Coleman a try there to see if he can be the long term solution at right back.
I think that going for the points and giving the younsters a run out are not mutually exclusive things. There is no reason why we cannot bring the likes of Vellios and Barkely off the bench if the manager doesn't feel they are ready to start.
They are both a shit sight better than McFadden! Also please keep Cahill out of the starrting line-up ? it's no coincidence we started much better than usual at OT because of it.
There are still 12 points to play for so we should be trying to finish as high as possible ? however, experience for the future is also important (before we have our usual pointless summer in the US and crap start in August).
They are both a shit sight better than McFadden! Also please keep Cahill out of the starrting line-up ? it's no coincidence we started much better than usual at OT because of it.
There are still 12 points to play for so we should be trying to finish as high as possible ? however, experience for the future is also important (before we have our usual pointless summer in the US and crap start in August).
The only position that Moyes would trust Barkley to play at present is the Cahill role, which for me wouldn't be a bad shout. The backroom staff clearly have doubts about Barkley's defensive qualities, so to push him further up the field, a free role behind Jelavic, would seem the ideal position to "bed him in" to the first team.
Coleman ? After a promising start, his career has stalled, admittedly with injuries playing a part, but his naivety still permeates his play.
As for Hibbert, this has been a good season, for him, and the implication that he has only ever put over two good crosses (on Sunday) is laughable. The difference since January is that Jelavic provides a much better target, gets in much better positions, and finishes much more clinically, than Saha did in his final two seasons, and so turns good crosses into great ones.
Coleman ? After a promising start, his career has stalled, admittedly with injuries playing a part, but his naivety still permeates his play.
As for Hibbert, this has been a good season, for him, and the implication that he has only ever put over two good crosses (on Sunday) is laughable. The difference since January is that Jelavic provides a much better target, gets in much better positions, and finishes much more clinically, than Saha did in his final two seasons, and so turns good crosses into great ones.
Joe, notice your comment about perspective, interesting as some come on here and through rain or shine take the chance to critisise Mr Moyes, often to suit their own agenda.
Doddy, like Nick I was a bit surprised to see your name on the OP but it demonstrates that, though some poke fun at your comments, you offer a balanced perspective.
Kunai, your comments do you a disservice. Sir, you are better than that, it is a Company, auditors have to sign off the accounts and whether you like BK or not, to suggest what liooks to me like fraud is very uncertain ground to tread on, suggest that both you and MK have a look at your comments very closely.
Stephen ~138, reality bites, it would be all so lovely to introduce young players, and I appreciate there is only one way to gain experience, but DM has the all too familiar finances to deal with and a couple of places makes big difference, though to be honest I can not see us going up two.
Lastly, Paul, I would not give Coleman any more chances, he is fast but that is it (IMO)
Cheers Guys,
Build the team around JH as Captain ( I said this on here in January) Fella, Peanut (though I am surprised how old he is) Baines and Jelly. Gibson and Jack are (IMO) worth keeping, Howard if no one better can be found, add Barkley, as everyone says he is great ( I have yet to see it) For Crooksy, I would keep Duffy. Phil, I agree, stick with Tony, Tony.
As Matt points out, the money is not insignificant, one place in the Prem is worth about the same, give or take a players weekly, as winning the FA Cup, so DM has a fine line to follow.
Hope this makes sense
Doddy, like Nick I was a bit surprised to see your name on the OP but it demonstrates that, though some poke fun at your comments, you offer a balanced perspective.
Kunai, your comments do you a disservice. Sir, you are better than that, it is a Company, auditors have to sign off the accounts and whether you like BK or not, to suggest what liooks to me like fraud is very uncertain ground to tread on, suggest that both you and MK have a look at your comments very closely.
Stephen ~138, reality bites, it would be all so lovely to introduce young players, and I appreciate there is only one way to gain experience, but DM has the all too familiar finances to deal with and a couple of places makes big difference, though to be honest I can not see us going up two.
Lastly, Paul, I would not give Coleman any more chances, he is fast but that is it (IMO)
Cheers Guys,
Build the team around JH as Captain ( I said this on here in January) Fella, Peanut (though I am surprised how old he is) Baines and Jelly. Gibson and Jack are (IMO) worth keeping, Howard if no one better can be found, add Barkley, as everyone says he is great ( I have yet to see it) For Crooksy, I would keep Duffy. Phil, I agree, stick with Tony, Tony.
As Matt points out, the money is not insignificant, one place in the Prem is worth about the same, give or take a players weekly, as winning the FA Cup, so DM has a fine line to follow.
Hope this makes sense
That's it, try out all the inexperienced youngsters and peripheral players with 4 games to go because the season is over after we had 2 nightmare results in an otherwise very strong finish to the season. That logic only makes sense if we had an injury crisis which we haven't.
Therefore, we need to play the guys who served us well at Old Trafford and at home to Sunderland or away in Wales. With Drenthe unlikely to play again, Gueye might get some time and Barkley might come from the bench if we are leading comfortably but these remaining games are crucial for monetary reasons and to have something over our odious neighbours. Finishing above them would pale into comparison to losing the semi I admit, but hell, let's do it anyway! It would make them look poor in the league after we conceded 6 pts to them thanks to Martin Atkinson and Anfield-gate. Meanwhile, it would at least give us some much needed self respect back.
Therefore, we need to play the guys who served us well at Old Trafford and at home to Sunderland or away in Wales. With Drenthe unlikely to play again, Gueye might get some time and Barkley might come from the bench if we are leading comfortably but these remaining games are crucial for monetary reasons and to have something over our odious neighbours. Finishing above them would pale into comparison to losing the semi I admit, but hell, let's do it anyway! It would make them look poor in the league after we conceded 6 pts to them thanks to Martin Atkinson and Anfield-gate. Meanwhile, it would at least give us some much needed self respect back.
Just to clear up the relative merits of finshing a few places higher in the league, compared to reaching the FA Cup Final, this is paraphrased from the FA website........
"In 2010/11, by progressing to The FA Cup Final, Stoke City received approx. £3.5m in prize money, TV payments, and gate receipts".
By losing in the semi final, we picked up 450,000 quid "prize money", plus assorted TV payments and gate receipts along the way.
Of course, the money pales into insignificance compared to the everlasting glory of an FA Cup win !
"In 2010/11, by progressing to The FA Cup Final, Stoke City received approx. £3.5m in prize money, TV payments, and gate receipts".
By losing in the semi final, we picked up 450,000 quid "prize money", plus assorted TV payments and gate receipts along the way.
Of course, the money pales into insignificance compared to the everlasting glory of an FA Cup win !
Andrew the young players in question have deserved their chance before now and a couple of them are better than some of the players that have played week in week out.
@ Paul David
Who are these players? The only one I saw who was a reliable improvement as a full match player was Duffy.
Barkley could be great but was getting tired and making silly errors. Vellios was the super sub.
So who are these players who are better than our regulars?
To be honest, I fear for the kids, as half of the contributors on here will slag off Moyes for not playing them (as used to happen circa 2007 with Big Vic) and then slate them forever afterwards when they do play.
Who are these players? The only one I saw who was a reliable improvement as a full match player was Duffy.
Barkley could be great but was getting tired and making silly errors. Vellios was the super sub.
So who are these players who are better than our regulars?
To be honest, I fear for the kids, as half of the contributors on here will slag off Moyes for not playing them (as used to happen circa 2007 with Big Vic) and then slate them forever afterwards when they do play.
Howard #211, by your reasoning Distin shouldn't be playing as he gifted the RS a goal too.
Paul #214, wasn't that Hibbert who put in 2 crosses for 2 goals against United? I don't think Cloeman would be able to do that though based on his going forward from a midfield position.
Paul #214, wasn't that Hibbert who put in 2 crosses for 2 goals against United? I don't think Cloeman would be able to do that though based on his going forward from a midfield position.
Denis #225, I think we'll be in Aus this summer not US as I read something about Everton being here in Thailand in July.
I can't imagine Everton coming to Oz this summer, they were here the year before last, and ticket sales weren't that great.
On one hand I'd like to see Moyes letting the youngster have a run out.
On the other hand I want to finish above the shite just to emphasise how wank they've been this season.
On the other hand I want to finish above the shite just to emphasise how wank they've been this season.
Maybe it's just the EPL Asia Trophy they're coming over for then Keith? But it's a handy stopping off point for flights down under which made me think it's Aus this year.
Andrew 264
Velios would have done a better job than Saha.
Barkley I doubt could have done any worse than Cahill this season.
While I am not saying Duffy is better than the other centre halves it was harsh on him to be dropped after 2 mom performances.
Eric 270
I think its widely accepted that going forward isnt Hibbert's strong point even if he did get 2 assists at the weekend.
Velios would have done a better job than Saha.
Barkley I doubt could have done any worse than Cahill this season.
While I am not saying Duffy is better than the other centre halves it was harsh on him to be dropped after 2 mom performances.
Eric 270
I think its widely accepted that going forward isnt Hibbert's strong point even if he did get 2 assists at the weekend.
Andrew, from what I saw of Barkley, which was every minute including MOTM against QPR and Huddersfiled he deserved far more play time and looks twice the player Gueye is.
I can understand Moyes giving him a breather after his Blackburn mishap (he was playing well too before that) but to rob him of so much valuable experience and sending him off to play in American parks just did not seem right.
I can understand Moyes giving him a breather after his Blackburn mishap (he was playing well too before that) but to rob him of so much valuable experience and sending him off to play in American parks just did not seem right.
I'd love to see the kids given a run out but I also want to finish above them twats across the park. Ideally we would have seen them coming on for 20/30 minutes after going up 2 or 3 0 against the relegation fodder, but we've hardly given any of them a spanking to do so.
On a side note, I'm surprised I've not seen a debate about Fellainis best position again after his performance against United. I heard a few pundits saying that playing off the striker is his best position. Personally, I like him as a classic centre mid, neither high up or deep, where he can dictate play. I was wondering what my fellow blues think, as it seems Cahill is winding down his career now and less likely to feature so often.
On a side note, I'm surprised I've not seen a debate about Fellainis best position again after his performance against United. I heard a few pundits saying that playing off the striker is his best position. Personally, I like him as a classic centre mid, neither high up or deep, where he can dictate play. I was wondering what my fellow blues think, as it seems Cahill is winding down his career now and less likely to feature so often.
James 316
I'm with you on Fellaini,I didnt like him being restricted to defensive duties before Gibson's arrival and while he was awesome against utd in Cahill's position I dont believe he is creative enough to play there long term.As a box to box midfielder I think he can go on to be one of the best in the league.
I'm with you on Fellaini,I didnt like him being restricted to defensive duties before Gibson's arrival and while he was awesome against utd in Cahill's position I dont believe he is creative enough to play there long term.As a box to box midfielder I think he can go on to be one of the best in the league.
There are a few things I would like to see Moyes do.
Play our youngsters is one, Barkley, Gueye, Vellios and Duffy, in my opinion, should be given some game time, maybe not start, but game time at least. They have shown some really good glimpses in the league this season, and I think could be important players for us in the next few years.
I think a lot of people here have also forgotten about our little Irish man, Coleman. Id like to start him a couple of games right back, just to see how it goes. I think hes become too predictable on the wing, and I firmly believe he can become one of the best right backs in the league, if he starts to improve defensively.
Future's looking bright anyway, because Jelavic has given us a really good spine now - Howard, Heitinga, Fellaini, Jelavic.
Just need some massive improvements on the wings, and then maybe we have a good chance of Europe next season.
Play our youngsters is one, Barkley, Gueye, Vellios and Duffy, in my opinion, should be given some game time, maybe not start, but game time at least. They have shown some really good glimpses in the league this season, and I think could be important players for us in the next few years.
I think a lot of people here have also forgotten about our little Irish man, Coleman. Id like to start him a couple of games right back, just to see how it goes. I think hes become too predictable on the wing, and I firmly believe he can become one of the best right backs in the league, if he starts to improve defensively.
Future's looking bright anyway, because Jelavic has given us a really good spine now - Howard, Heitinga, Fellaini, Jelavic.
Just need some massive improvements on the wings, and then maybe we have a good chance of Europe next season.
Eric (270) OK point taken, but I still feel he's nowhere near better than either of the other two and that given the need for cash via league placings I'd stick with either of them at RB until the end of the season. Seamus needs the good pre season he was having last year minus the bad injury. Then with firness and confidence back maybe just maybe. However much as i like the guy, I've still doubts on his potential at the highest level. Hope I'm wrong.
It dont matter who we play but it does matter that we get the right team on the park capable of picking up the remaining 12 points. We do that then Moyes has a shot at some of the bigger jobs coming up this summer. 7th and a Semi-final looks good on paper with a club that has no cash.
I'd like to see Moyes at Chelsea or Spurs, don't think Utd would really want him, probably grooming a Giggs or a Scoles to take over in a year or two. Could the shite tempt him if they get shut of Dalglish? Can't see the shite putting up with Daglish after this season especially when Torres come back to haunt them in the FA cup final.
I'd like to see Moyes at Chelsea or Spurs, don't think Utd would really want him, probably grooming a Giggs or a Scoles to take over in a year or two. Could the shite tempt him if they get shut of Dalglish? Can't see the shite putting up with Daglish after this season especially when Torres come back to haunt them in the FA cup final.
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121 Posted 24/04/2012 at 15:59:42
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What is worrying to me is that both Moyes and Fellaini have been making noises about needing squad investment. As it seems almost certain we won't get any, are they laying the ground work for reasons to leave?
As much as I hate Moyes' negativity at times, he has proved he can keep us at the top end of the league, something that the likes of Martinez, Rodgers and Lambert (and anyone else often mentioned on these shere) have yet to achieve. Also any future team needs to be built around Fellaini, Baines, Heitinga and Jelavic.
The three youngsters previously mentioned need game time to improve before next season as I can't see anyone else coming in to join them.