Season 2011-12
The Mail Bag
Simple Question, Simple Answer?
30 Comments: As the season comes to a close, I suppose the time comes to review the season.
Despite our recent form, enjoyment and trying to believe the fact that we may actually have a striker who can score goals, I still don't think I can overlook the first half of the season.
So I guess my question is:? Is it worth going through that abysmal, atrocious, disgustingness to enjoy ourselves come the turn of the year?
Why does it happen every year? How can it be changed? What the hell is going on???
Maybe not so simple...
Andrew Yates, Posted 24/04/2012 at 21:51:35
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Rigid manager, rigid system, bored rigid!
Might go for the half season ticket next year..
The red lot across the park will be hoping for more of the same...I guess the points for safety from relegation for the red lot is only 34...since moyes guarantees them six points a year plus a bottle job if we meet in the cup..Ive seen Everton for many a year and in all honesty the reds for the most part were a superior side...But Never Ever in a Derby did an Everton team think they would lose even if they were top and we were bottom they always believed we could take em and kopites always knew a fight was on thier hands they dont believe that anymore...Moyes has taught this team to shit their pants at the sight off them....just my opinion but get lost Moyes..
I think Doddy had the right idea a few months ago. In August we just all turn up at Goodison dressed as Santa, hopefully the Blues will be tricked into thinking it's late December, early January, and actually put in a performance.
Our play in the first half of the season was poor because we had no attacking flair. Our play was direction less and pointless.
During the Jan. transfer window we benefited from Rangers desperate need to sell by grabbing Jelavic. Well done Moyes.
We then benefited by recapturing Pienaar because Redknap bizarrely fancied Saha, he didn't find any form at Spurs and had a previous successful time at Everton. This was good fortune for Moyes.
The loan signing of Drenthe worked wonders for our attack. Moyes did well to get him but has not been able to accommodate this free spirit.
We have now lost Drenthe for good. I
wouldn't be surprised to see Jelavic go for big money this summer. He would score for fun in the Barcelona team. We may sign Pienaar but he is now 30 so not too much football left in him.
Added to this, I fear our other attacking option, Baines, may well be sold this Summer.
So unless Moyes can magically find quick fix loan signings plus a top quality goal scorer to bolster our attack again I can only see survival football for the start of next season.
During the Jan. transfer window we benefited from Rangers desperate need to sell by grabbing Jelavic. Well done Moyes.
We then benefited by recapturing Pienaar because Redknap bizarrely fancied Saha, he didn't find any form at Spurs and had a previous successful time at Everton. This was good fortune for Moyes.
The loan signing of Drenthe worked wonders for our attack. Moyes did well to get him but has not been able to accommodate this free spirit.
We have now lost Drenthe for good. I
wouldn't be surprised to see Jelavic go for big money this summer. He would score for fun in the Barcelona team. We may sign Pienaar but he is now 30 so not too much football left in him.
Added to this, I fear our other attacking option, Baines, may well be sold this Summer.
So unless Moyes can magically find quick fix loan signings plus a top quality goal scorer to bolster our attack again I can only see survival football for the start of next season.
The only season I remember us hitting the ground running bar the 4th place finish was when Moyes managed to get his transfer business done early and brought in Lescott, Johnson and Howard. I also feel that the long haul pre season jaunt does little to improve preparation and the opposition always seems to be weak in the pre-season games. Moyes should keep the players at Finch Farm, keep them hungry and try to enter a pre season tournament that offers stronger European opposition.
That's the best idea Drew #288, only get a half season ticket come December.
That way you
a) register a protest at the dross we always get in the first half of the season,
b) and at Kenwright and the board for the lack of signings (they'd be shitting themselves with the loss of upfront cash),
c) save yourself some money by chosing your games,
d) be guaranteed the family will know what you want for Christmas (so save more money by not having to pay for the ticket yourself).
e) see all the best games.
That way you
a) register a protest at the dross we always get in the first half of the season,
b) and at Kenwright and the board for the lack of signings (they'd be shitting themselves with the loss of upfront cash),
c) save yourself some money by chosing your games,
d) be guaranteed the family will know what you want for Christmas (so save more money by not having to pay for the ticket yourself).
e) see all the best games.
It is a simple answer.
Team A - sells the creative heart of the team and doesn't replace them adequately, but with panic loans on the week leading up to the close of the transfer window - the result, a disjointed team, demoralised manager, disappointed supporters - relegation form.
Team B - Buys a £30 million striker for less than £6 million, brings back half of the creative heart of the team, brings in a yank who compliments this attacking ethos, brings in a steadying influence in midfield which allows his other creative midfielder to be creative - the result... attacking joined up football Champion's league form (Only SAF and Mancini's teams has a better record than Moyes Everton since January)
The simple answer - get your sales and buys over with quickly, give new additions time to bed-in pre-season; support your manager Mr Chairman.
Team A - sells the creative heart of the team and doesn't replace them adequately, but with panic loans on the week leading up to the close of the transfer window - the result, a disjointed team, demoralised manager, disappointed supporters - relegation form.
Team B - Buys a £30 million striker for less than £6 million, brings back half of the creative heart of the team, brings in a yank who compliments this attacking ethos, brings in a steadying influence in midfield which allows his other creative midfielder to be creative - the result... attacking joined up football Champion's league form (Only SAF and Mancini's teams has a better record than Moyes Everton since January)
The simple answer - get your sales and buys over with quickly, give new additions time to bed-in pre-season; support your manager Mr Chairman.
There are certainly better options around than Straqualursi, so I would give him a miss. Drenthe is cooking his goose, so he's gone. That leaves Pienaar, who will cost at least the £2.5m we got from Spurs for him.
I wouldn't like to look at the number of first-team players if those three leave. Is Moyes laying the groundwork for a big name leaving ?
I wouldn't like to look at the number of first-team players if those three leave. Is Moyes laying the groundwork for a big name leaving ?
Kevin
While I agree with what you are saying,we of course have a better team post January but early in the season Moyes simply refused to drop players out of form and has to take responibility for that.
While I agree with what you are saying,we of course have a better team post January but early in the season Moyes simply refused to drop players out of form and has to take responibility for that.
Kevin 298: Team B; spot on. With the proviso that Moyes doesn't backslide into old bad habits and some money is found to top up the pre season kitty...Over to you Bill.
There have been many games this season where there were empty seats in the Lower Gwladys - good specs too
The old faces were missing and for some games, some of the empty seats were taken up by different people each time, obviously buying for the specific match
Three of the older heads around me are doing exactly as Eric (297) suggests and for much the same reasons - that's 3 x 7-year plus season-tickets missing next season added to at least 12 regulars gone missing this season
The three's reasoning is they will be able to buy for the day and get near enough to their old seats pre-Christmas and the half-season ticket, again, near to their old specs
To be honest, for the first time I can remember, I was tempted on at least 2 occasions to not bother, particularly mid-week, in cold weather seeing how we were playing at the time
I reckon, next season, at least in my part of the ground, for most games, you'll be able to get tickets per match more or less where you want to sit
Be interesting to see the season-ticket numbers come August
The old faces were missing and for some games, some of the empty seats were taken up by different people each time, obviously buying for the specific match
Three of the older heads around me are doing exactly as Eric (297) suggests and for much the same reasons - that's 3 x 7-year plus season-tickets missing next season added to at least 12 regulars gone missing this season
The three's reasoning is they will be able to buy for the day and get near enough to their old seats pre-Christmas and the half-season ticket, again, near to their old specs
To be honest, for the first time I can remember, I was tempted on at least 2 occasions to not bother, particularly mid-week, in cold weather seeing how we were playing at the time
I reckon, next season, at least in my part of the ground, for most games, you'll be able to get tickets per match more or less where you want to sit
Be interesting to see the season-ticket numbers come August
Why do people think Jelavic is going to go this summer? He's only just signed a contract, if he did go it would be for a huge sum. As for why we start the season so badly its because this Evertont eam can't play under expectation or pressure. At the beginning of the season they have the pressure to get off to a good start so wilt. As soon as they've lost enough games to be largely out of the running for everything then they can play with no pressure and suddenly find form, right up until they unfortunately find themselves in contention for something at the end of the season and they go back to choking. Until Moyes changes the mentality of this team then it doesn't matter where he goes on his pre-season trip.
James (#317) sorry but I can't agree. Many of these players are internationals, or have come from teams competing at the top of their respective leagues, and pressure is something that comes with the game, at any level. If as you contend this is down to the manager then how has he managed to stay in the post for so long, with no dissenters from the dressing room?
There is no hard and fast reason for slow starts, it's likely a multitude of factors, but late transfer dealings (in and out) don't help. Moyes dragging his feet a few years back over his new deal didn't help. Moyes even admitted on one occasion he hadn't got them into the right physical shape in time. Other things like summer international tournaments come into play. But pressure? Absolute shite. Most pros will tell you a lot of the time they tune the crowd out.
Belief? Maybe.
There is no hard and fast reason for slow starts, it's likely a multitude of factors, but late transfer dealings (in and out) don't help. Moyes dragging his feet a few years back over his new deal didn't help. Moyes even admitted on one occasion he hadn't got them into the right physical shape in time. Other things like summer international tournaments come into play. But pressure? Absolute shite. Most pros will tell you a lot of the time they tune the crowd out.
Belief? Maybe.
Maybe a really tough pre season would help a bit, none of this playing Preston bollocks, who knows we may get invited to that Nike tournament Arsenal and co always have.
While I feel everyone's frustration with our poor start and poor showing's against the RS, surely you have to judge the team and manager over the whole season?
As another poster (Doddy I think) said on another thread, Moyes has basically raised expectations to a higher level where finishing 7th (potentially) and getting to the FA Cup semis is not enough. Given our resources and spending capacity that is strange. Look at Villa, RS and even Sunderland. All should, on paper, be ahead of us. Apart from Newcastle maybe, all of the teams above us have much more expensive and deeper squads than us.
We all want the team to do as well as they can and win some silverware but the way people are talking (not renewing season tickets etc) you'd think we were in Villa's shoes. Reality check folks!
As another poster (Doddy I think) said on another thread, Moyes has basically raised expectations to a higher level where finishing 7th (potentially) and getting to the FA Cup semis is not enough. Given our resources and spending capacity that is strange. Look at Villa, RS and even Sunderland. All should, on paper, be ahead of us. Apart from Newcastle maybe, all of the teams above us have much more expensive and deeper squads than us.
We all want the team to do as well as they can and win some silverware but the way people are talking (not renewing season tickets etc) you'd think we were in Villa's shoes. Reality check folks!
Perhaps it is Moyes mentality that makes us start each season bad.
Not the first time we have started bad, and not the last.
Moyes is at fault for playing poor teams during pre-season.
Until that changes it will happen next season also.
10 years and people have not found out that Moyes is overly cautious, do you need another 10 years to figure out that Moyes simply is not good enough???
He has done the same thing with Preston, nearly getting promotion but always missing out.
Compare our pre-season games to Spurs and you will find that they were playing against teams in Europe while we were in the US wasting time and money.
Is it not time for Moyes to figure out his mistakes, what are his coaches for, I think they know we need to play against better teams, but Moyes is too stubborn to change his ways as NORMAL.
This pre-season we are probably going back to Austrailia and play against Sydney FC.
Now isnt that a bombshell!
Not the first time we have started bad, and not the last.
Moyes is at fault for playing poor teams during pre-season.
Until that changes it will happen next season also.
10 years and people have not found out that Moyes is overly cautious, do you need another 10 years to figure out that Moyes simply is not good enough???
He has done the same thing with Preston, nearly getting promotion but always missing out.
Compare our pre-season games to Spurs and you will find that they were playing against teams in Europe while we were in the US wasting time and money.
Is it not time for Moyes to figure out his mistakes, what are his coaches for, I think they know we need to play against better teams, but Moyes is too stubborn to change his ways as NORMAL.
This pre-season we are probably going back to Austrailia and play against Sydney FC.
Now isnt that a bombshell!
Speaking of Jelavic, reading an article over about ManU/ManCity, the writer talked about EFC exposing ManU defensive weaknesses on sunday. Mentioned Hibbert, but took a paragraph to talk about Jelavic. Siad:
"Speaking of Jelavic ? the guy reminds of a pair of scissors. He's got these long, snapping legs that provide him with a very unique ability to net goals from odd angles. He was giving United's defense fits all day. The thing about the Croatian, who is new to the Premier League since January when he joined Toffees from Rangers, is that he combines a poacher's instincts with an incredible work rate. Even when Everton was down, he was dropping deep to help defend, putting pressure on the shaky Evans or slot in the flanks when needed. He now has eight goals in 15 appearances. He's a perfect Everton player. Hopefully they can keep him beyond this season".
Agree, agree, and agree.
"Speaking of Jelavic ? the guy reminds of a pair of scissors. He's got these long, snapping legs that provide him with a very unique ability to net goals from odd angles. He was giving United's defense fits all day. The thing about the Croatian, who is new to the Premier League since January when he joined Toffees from Rangers, is that he combines a poacher's instincts with an incredible work rate. Even when Everton was down, he was dropping deep to help defend, putting pressure on the shaky Evans or slot in the flanks when needed. He now has eight goals in 15 appearances. He's a perfect Everton player. Hopefully they can keep him beyond this season".
Agree, agree, and agree.
Agree...
There will be a couple of outgoings this summer and the squad needs it, not just for the cash they will bring in. Moyes just needs to make sure that the squad isn't weakened too much.
My first choices would be Jagielka and Rodwell and bring in Pienaar, Rodellega, a right winger and central defensive cover.
Who am I kidding
My first choices would be Jagielka and Rodwell and bring in Pienaar, Rodellega, a right winger and central defensive cover.
Who am I kidding
Seems pretty obvious to me the players look shagged out before a ball is kicked.
It takes till November every year for them to recover, absolutely woeful.
Hopefully when Villa sack Mcleish they'll make Moyes an offer he can't refuse this summer.
Spoke to a spurs supporter this morning about him going there, he was trying to be polite but nearly choked on his pasty at the thought.
It takes till November every year for them to recover, absolutely woeful.
Hopefully when Villa sack Mcleish they'll make Moyes an offer he can't refuse this summer.
Spoke to a spurs supporter this morning about him going there, he was trying to be polite but nearly choked on his pasty at the thought.
Talking of our slow start to most seasons, I am sure this is something that must cause Moyes and his team great concern.
I know many have said that maybe trips to the states could be part of the problem. Others have said about the lack of quality opposition during pre-season games. I wouldnt argue that both could be part of the problem.
I tend to think it might be that as all our players will testify Moyes works them very hard in training. So maybe he overdoes it in pre season training, so instead of being fresh for the start of the season maybe they have still got that hard trainig in their legs. Which stops them performing to their maximum.
I know many have said that maybe trips to the states could be part of the problem. Others have said about the lack of quality opposition during pre-season games. I wouldnt argue that both could be part of the problem.
I tend to think it might be that as all our players will testify Moyes works them very hard in training. So maybe he overdoes it in pre season training, so instead of being fresh for the start of the season maybe they have still got that hard trainig in their legs. Which stops them performing to their maximum.
Ciaran 364 - please lets not start with the lack of resource argument again. Lack of money had nothing to do with playing Cahill in the starting XI for about the first 15 games of the season, when it was obvious he was unift, way off form or a combination of the two. Add to that constantly playing JH in CM when it was clear to see he should be playing CB - only an injury to Jags finally forced Moyes to put JH ahead of Jags.
It will be a long time until I forget that we had 3 (yes THREE) league games this season where we didn't manage a single shot on target. Two of them in a row. That is not down to lack of funds. Our first two games were QPR and Blackburn last August, we somehow fluked 3 points from those even though we were awful in the games.
There is no way Jelavic will leave this summer, he's only been with us for 3 months! With only 3 months experience in the prem, why would any other club offer 20+m for someone with little experience in a top league? I dont imagine anyone sniffing around until he's been with us at least a full season.
Summary of whole season - please bring change in management and a clear our of some older players.
It will be a long time until I forget that we had 3 (yes THREE) league games this season where we didn't manage a single shot on target. Two of them in a row. That is not down to lack of funds. Our first two games were QPR and Blackburn last August, we somehow fluked 3 points from those even though we were awful in the games.
There is no way Jelavic will leave this summer, he's only been with us for 3 months! With only 3 months experience in the prem, why would any other club offer 20+m for someone with little experience in a top league? I dont imagine anyone sniffing around until he's been with us at least a full season.
Summary of whole season - please bring change in management and a clear our of some older players.
Give Moyes whatever funding he's going to get as soon as this season ends, so he can bring players in early. It's no guarantee of a better start, but it would sure as hell help not to be bringing people in at 5 to midnight on deadline day.
I have a view on why we generally start the season badly. It's probably complete rubbish, but I'll fly it anyway.
We don't have as many international first-team players as many of the top 6 teams. And those international players, generally, get a good work-out over summer at world or euro championships, or friendlies in the off years.
I know some people will say it tires players out, but I just think it keeps their match fitness and when they return to their squad they've been playing with and against better players rather than lazing about near a pool in tenerife for 6 weeks, or playing nothing-friendlies against low quality opponents for the first couple of weeks of pre-season. They're sharper, hungrier, they hit the ground running.
As otherwise, there is very little difference in pre-season between all of the teams in english leagues. You could argue that doing late transfer business doesn't help, but isnt 'Arry Redknapp the master of the late transfer deals? Doesn't seem to ever have affected his teams performances...
We don't have as many international first-team players as many of the top 6 teams. And those international players, generally, get a good work-out over summer at world or euro championships, or friendlies in the off years.
I know some people will say it tires players out, but I just think it keeps their match fitness and when they return to their squad they've been playing with and against better players rather than lazing about near a pool in tenerife for 6 weeks, or playing nothing-friendlies against low quality opponents for the first couple of weeks of pre-season. They're sharper, hungrier, they hit the ground running.
As otherwise, there is very little difference in pre-season between all of the teams in english leagues. You could argue that doing late transfer business doesn't help, but isnt 'Arry Redknapp the master of the late transfer deals? Doesn't seem to ever have affected his teams performances...
Jeremy, not sure how thats explain a shite start when we also play 'lesser' teams who arguably have fewer internationals than we do...
We do have a few by the way, of the top of my head we have at least a dozen internationals in our squad (including U21s) at any one time. E.g except for RB all our back 5 are current internationals....
Moyes himself admitted he donesn't know why we start badly. The endless nothingness in teh transfer market cant help though. Even a loan signing is a fresh face and gives the squad a bit of a boost. We just need to bring them in in July and not the end of August.
We do have a few by the way, of the top of my head we have at least a dozen internationals in our squad (including U21s) at any one time. E.g except for RB all our back 5 are current internationals....
Moyes himself admitted he donesn't know why we start badly. The endless nothingness in teh transfer market cant help though. Even a loan signing is a fresh face and gives the squad a bit of a boost. We just need to bring them in in July and not the end of August.
I never said it was gospel.
But if you look at our "internationals" they often don't qualify for worlds or take part in the euros; cahill, howard, fellaini, piennar
Or aren't/weren't/declined : saha, baines, arteta
never been in the international squads : hibbo, ossie, coleman (wasnt last year, wouldnt auto qualify anyway)
Too old now for the squads; neville, distin
We've never had "popular" internationals really. Johnson/beattie, only handful of appearances. Rooney/lescott the same before they left.
It's just a theory...
But if you look at our "internationals" they often don't qualify for worlds or take part in the euros; cahill, howard, fellaini, piennar
Or aren't/weren't/declined : saha, baines, arteta
never been in the international squads : hibbo, ossie, coleman (wasnt last year, wouldnt auto qualify anyway)
Too old now for the squads; neville, distin
We've never had "popular" internationals really. Johnson/beattie, only handful of appearances. Rooney/lescott the same before they left.
It's just a theory...
Read this and discuss
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-04-23/roar-earn-their-lucky-breaks/3967212
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-04-23/roar-earn-their-lucky-breaks/3967212
Kevin #298 and Ciaran #364.
Thanks gentlemen for saving me the time to write my thoughts. Combining both your posts is exactly what I would say in response to the OP.
Thanks gentlemen for saving me the time to write my thoughts. Combining both your posts is exactly what I would say in response to the OP.
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285 Posted 25/04/2012 at 07:02:42
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