Season 2011-12
The Mail Bag
Toxteth Riots and Everton
51 Comments: Reading an article in the Sabotage Times where the author talked about what song was #1 in England at the time of different riots (Mods and Rockers, Brixton, etc). Certainly a different slant on civil unrest. (Did you know the #1 hit during the Notting Hills riots was ?When? by The Kalin Twins?)
Anyway, towards the bottom of the article, the premise had gotten old and I was just skimming. My eyes went straight past Toxteth but halted a couple words later on Liverpool. So I slowed down and read. Now THAT was a fucking riot. Yikes! I did a little googling and read further. It occurred to me then to ask TWers their memories since most of you are from Liverpool. What do you recall? I mean eyewitness stuff. Because the history of it alone reads ugly as fuck.
Oh, and here?s our roster that season. Which of them were instrumental on our great mid-80s teams?
Goalkeeper
Seamus McDonagh
Defender
John Bailey
Michael Lyons
Kevin Ratcliffe
Midfielder
Asa Hartford
Howard Kendall
Steve McMahon
Gary Megson
Forward
Gerry Mullan
Eamon O'Keefe
Graeme Sharp
Manager
Howard Kendall
James Flynn, Posted 27/04/2012 at 19:36:10
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I did some work in Liverpool after the riots when things had calmed down a bit and always had a wry smile driving down Granby Street at the hole knocked in a building wall and the large hand painted sign noxt to it which read Police surveillance camera found here. All knocked down now and looks to be new houses there but the rest of the street still looks like it did back then
The Toxteth Riots. When the bullies (Merseyside Poilce) were bullied back.
The Specials - Ghost Town was Number 1 at some time over the period of the riots
'Too much fighting on the dance floor'
Special isn't an appropriate word for most of that team above - Jim McDonagh tried hard but he was a very poor goalkeeper
Kevin Ratclifff was often played as a left back and all the lads agreed he was the worst defender we ever had and would be on his way soon (how wrong we were!)
Howard K - was in his dying days as a footballer but him and Hartford and that young lad McMahon who had a haircut like us (wedge) had potential
Graeme Sharp - we were undecided about him; one day he'd score a spectacular goal - the next week he hid - my mate had no such doubts, to him Sharpe was shit... and he'd remind us of that all through Sharp's glory years (if you're reading this Ossie... you were wrong)
Everton were a team in decline - with an unimaginative novice manager and too many players who'd seen better days or not enough... we looked like a team who'd never win anything ever again... and if there's have been a Toffeeweb about in those days they'd have had big headlines every week saying 'Kendall out'... but we all read 'The End' in those days, had wedge haircuts, listened to 'The Jam' and hated 'wools' who dressed in their dad's flairs and five star jumpers halfway up their backs
Re the Toxteth Riots... I was on a bus going into the city centre early July - I was on the upper deck and we were heading towards Upper Parliament street - next thing you know the driver stops and the conductor (remember them) ran up the stairs and said 'Everyone off now!!). I looked behind the bus and saw about 500 lads running towards us, smashing everything in their path, petrol bombs, bricks, staves, the works - with a couple of police vans in hasty retreat...
We got of the bus - and sharpish... it was mayhem and the last thing I saw was every window of the bus put through...
The next time I went into town it was about a week later and there were Army armoured cars parked on the sidings at Edge Hill, ready to be deployed if it didn't calm down.
Scary times - especially the football..
'Too much fighting on the dance floor'
Special isn't an appropriate word for most of that team above - Jim McDonagh tried hard but he was a very poor goalkeeper
Kevin Ratclifff was often played as a left back and all the lads agreed he was the worst defender we ever had and would be on his way soon (how wrong we were!)
Howard K - was in his dying days as a footballer but him and Hartford and that young lad McMahon who had a haircut like us (wedge) had potential
Graeme Sharp - we were undecided about him; one day he'd score a spectacular goal - the next week he hid - my mate had no such doubts, to him Sharpe was shit... and he'd remind us of that all through Sharp's glory years (if you're reading this Ossie... you were wrong)
Everton were a team in decline - with an unimaginative novice manager and too many players who'd seen better days or not enough... we looked like a team who'd never win anything ever again... and if there's have been a Toffeeweb about in those days they'd have had big headlines every week saying 'Kendall out'... but we all read 'The End' in those days, had wedge haircuts, listened to 'The Jam' and hated 'wools' who dressed in their dad's flairs and five star jumpers halfway up their backs
Re the Toxteth Riots... I was on a bus going into the city centre early July - I was on the upper deck and we were heading towards Upper Parliament street - next thing you know the driver stops and the conductor (remember them) ran up the stairs and said 'Everyone off now!!). I looked behind the bus and saw about 500 lads running towards us, smashing everything in their path, petrol bombs, bricks, staves, the works - with a couple of police vans in hasty retreat...
We got of the bus - and sharpish... it was mayhem and the last thing I saw was every window of the bus put through...
The next time I went into town it was about a week later and there were Army armoured cars parked on the sidings at Edge Hill, ready to be deployed if it didn't calm down.
Scary times - especially the football..
Eric (158) My story is rather like yours, but instead of hitching, we had an inter-rail (or transalpino) train ticket or whatever it was called. We found out about 'Toccy' in Brindisi, the port town on the heel of Italy. Some Yank asked where we were from and when we told him, he said "Oh, where the riots are". We took no notice, tutted, rolled our eyes. Then he showed us a copy of The Herald Tribune" with the headline "LIVERPOOL BURNS". We couldn't believe it and as you say, no mobiles or internet so we were more or less in the dark until we got home. When we DID get 'home', it was to Stoke Newington Rd in North London. Our upstairs (shitty) flat was untouched, but the hairdressers below had been looted and smashed up in riots there. We were absolutely made up with this as the hairdresser was our landlord and a total shifty twat (I kid you not his name was 'Harvey Hassel). We ended up doing a runner from there and left owing him three months rent. Next stop was Muswell Hill. 'Appy diiiiize!
James Flynn
I remember the Kalin Twins hit "When" from the fifties but don't recall them having a return to the charts at the time of the riots. I had moved to north Wales by then but had to spend half my time defending Liverpool (the city) to people who were constantly slagging it off.
I remember the Kalin Twins hit "When" from the fifties but don't recall them having a return to the charts at the time of the riots. I had moved to north Wales by then but had to spend half my time defending Liverpool (the city) to people who were constantly slagging it off.
I haven't checked the timeline and memory is imperfect, but didn't it start in London, spawned copy cats ( Bristol Leeds Birmingham etc ?? ) and in the Toxteth version the pupil out did the master by a large factor. I also seem to remember that there was at least one internal l'pool copy cat in Smithdown Rd...just because they saw it on the tv.
Not to say that there wearn't grievences and injustices as oppossd to the Tottenham me me me loot for the sake of it riot recently.
Not to say that there wearn't grievences and injustices as oppossd to the Tottenham me me me loot for the sake of it riot recently.
I was working in France in the early part of the summer of 1981, so got the earlier riots on the radio, but was going out with a woman whose flat was at the bottom of Falkner Street (right by Hope St Police Station) so saw plenty of goings on at the end of summer.
Ghost Town by The Specials was the obvious anthem. Other songs I remember particularly (for no good reason) were 'Wordy Rappinghood' by Tom Tom Club - still love that record! - and 'There's A Guy Works Down the Chip Shop Swears He's Elvis' by Kirsty MacColl.
My mate came out to see me, a Villa fan fresh from winning the First Division Title. I never thought that four years later we'd be doing the same, only better.
Kevin, you forgot about the woolies' 'centre-parted hair'.
Thanks OP for making me realise what an arl get I am....
Ghost Town by The Specials was the obvious anthem. Other songs I remember particularly (for no good reason) were 'Wordy Rappinghood' by Tom Tom Club - still love that record! - and 'There's A Guy Works Down the Chip Shop Swears He's Elvis' by Kirsty MacColl.
My mate came out to see me, a Villa fan fresh from winning the First Division Title. I never thought that four years later we'd be doing the same, only better.
Kevin, you forgot about the woolies' 'centre-parted hair'.
Thanks OP for making me realise what an arl get I am....
I lived in Tower Hill Kirkby at the time in a ghetto complex of high rise flats where it was mandatory to piss in the lifts.
Kids would call at your door with knock off framed Lowry prints saying "my 6 yr old brother painted this, are you interested?"
Your car would be pushed around the corner, the wheels, and radio nicked then a few days later a pissed up nerdy kid would knock on your door saying "hear your looking for wheels for your Hillman Imp? cos I've got some"
Of course him and his brother were the thieving little gits in the first place and when the police went round to his lockup found the radio and other personal effects.
The neighbours on one side hated each other and more than once I broke up a full on fist fight in the road.
The neighbour on the other side would rob to order, drills, welding machines, lawn mowers!!!
In a packed pub 3 or 4 adult males walked in, unplugged the ciggy machine and stole it in full view of everyone - not a word said.
Never seen the toxteth stuff first hand but copycat stuff was going on in kirkby, cars on fire and such like.
it was mindless vandalism no different to the tottenham riots, "youf leaders" appearing on telly putting political spin on it made it seem like a cause - bollocks. The type of ne'er do wells I've mentioned above were let off the leash that's all that happened.
At the time I was offered virtually treble money and promotion when I said I was leaving, I even looked at buying a house in Crosby but there was a rancid festering feel about the city and local environs.
Major industries like the docks, Fords and countless others had been in decline and I couldn't wait to get away - never looked back.
Everton were cack in a different way than today, the expectations remained so protests against woeful displays happened - not contrived, organised or debated they just happened.
The temptation is to say Kendals resurrection could happen with Moyes - as fallacious as saying the Toxteth riots were anything but troublemakers copying what was happening in Bristol.
Kids would call at your door with knock off framed Lowry prints saying "my 6 yr old brother painted this, are you interested?"
Your car would be pushed around the corner, the wheels, and radio nicked then a few days later a pissed up nerdy kid would knock on your door saying "hear your looking for wheels for your Hillman Imp? cos I've got some"
Of course him and his brother were the thieving little gits in the first place and when the police went round to his lockup found the radio and other personal effects.
The neighbours on one side hated each other and more than once I broke up a full on fist fight in the road.
The neighbour on the other side would rob to order, drills, welding machines, lawn mowers!!!
In a packed pub 3 or 4 adult males walked in, unplugged the ciggy machine and stole it in full view of everyone - not a word said.
Never seen the toxteth stuff first hand but copycat stuff was going on in kirkby, cars on fire and such like.
it was mindless vandalism no different to the tottenham riots, "youf leaders" appearing on telly putting political spin on it made it seem like a cause - bollocks. The type of ne'er do wells I've mentioned above were let off the leash that's all that happened.
At the time I was offered virtually treble money and promotion when I said I was leaving, I even looked at buying a house in Crosby but there was a rancid festering feel about the city and local environs.
Major industries like the docks, Fords and countless others had been in decline and I couldn't wait to get away - never looked back.
Everton were cack in a different way than today, the expectations remained so protests against woeful displays happened - not contrived, organised or debated they just happened.
The temptation is to say Kendals resurrection could happen with Moyes - as fallacious as saying the Toxteth riots were anything but troublemakers copying what was happening in Bristol.
Well, fuck the 80s, Barry, they were shite but if you aint in the Pool these days, you're missing out big time. Most vibrant and re-juvenated city in the country by a mile. Liverpool pisses all over your Brum, Leeds or Manchester. Once you go out and about in England's other drab lifeless souless cities you realise how lucky we are here.
The waterfront and city center are second to none these days so maybe the riots helped push the powers that be in the right direction back then. All I know is I wouldn't swap this city for any other. The Wembley Derby and Grand National on the same day who could match that?
The waterfront and city center are second to none these days so maybe the riots helped push the powers that be in the right direction back then. All I know is I wouldn't swap this city for any other. The Wembley Derby and Grand National on the same day who could match that?
And Brown 'Air Wear' boots Brian...
Toxteth to us in Liverpool 8 was two nameplates with the word on, one in Park Lane, the other Lodge Lane.
At school in Kingsley Road and Granby St, we were all told our address was ...Princes Park, Liverpool 8. Liverpool 8 was then Princes Park, subdivided into Granby St and Lodge Lane, and the Dingle or "over the Avenue" with its own subdivisions, the Holy Land etc, was always, to us locals, Liverpool 8.
Around about the 10th time I was stopped by the criminal bullies in police uniforms was for carrying an Avon carrier bag "suspiciously" after midnight; somehow I managed to hurt myself rather badly when I argued about opening it to show the contents. My mate was arrested for missing the litter bin when he threw a banana skin away; another badly beaten for telling three of L8's finest to do their job when he saw them bozing on duty in the outside bog of a local pub.
The riots were payback time for the police, I stood shoulder to shoulder on the barricades with black lads ? some friends, some I went to school with and some who would normally be playing the racist card and giving me a hard time. They called me and my brother Stanley and Livingstone ? the only white men in out street.
The saddest night was when the Rialto got burned down. My big sisters were in tears as this was where they went ballroom dancing in the 50s and where we all went as kids for the Saturday matinee.
We helped the old folks to evacuate the big, ex-cotton kings' houses on Princes Avenue that night ? the oldies said it was like the Dunkirk spirit as shown in the Blitz.
The law in Liverpool 8 was corrupt, violent, vicious and unfit to serve ? they treated the locals, black and white, like dirt; they had it coming.
At school in Kingsley Road and Granby St, we were all told our address was ...Princes Park, Liverpool 8. Liverpool 8 was then Princes Park, subdivided into Granby St and Lodge Lane, and the Dingle or "over the Avenue" with its own subdivisions, the Holy Land etc, was always, to us locals, Liverpool 8.
Around about the 10th time I was stopped by the criminal bullies in police uniforms was for carrying an Avon carrier bag "suspiciously" after midnight; somehow I managed to hurt myself rather badly when I argued about opening it to show the contents. My mate was arrested for missing the litter bin when he threw a banana skin away; another badly beaten for telling three of L8's finest to do their job when he saw them bozing on duty in the outside bog of a local pub.
The riots were payback time for the police, I stood shoulder to shoulder on the barricades with black lads ? some friends, some I went to school with and some who would normally be playing the racist card and giving me a hard time. They called me and my brother Stanley and Livingstone ? the only white men in out street.
The saddest night was when the Rialto got burned down. My big sisters were in tears as this was where they went ballroom dancing in the 50s and where we all went as kids for the Saturday matinee.
We helped the old folks to evacuate the big, ex-cotton kings' houses on Princes Avenue that night ? the oldies said it was like the Dunkirk spirit as shown in the Blitz.
The law in Liverpool 8 was corrupt, violent, vicious and unfit to serve ? they treated the locals, black and white, like dirt; they had it coming.
Barry, 'gas side' or 'leccy side'.......?
Well said Phil, couldn't agree more but it also went on in town. Those dark blue Ford transit vans full of angry policemen, Why were they angry?, as we were only going from one pub to another but they would jump out and start pushing you into walls and slapping your face for a reaction to arrest you. This is true.
I went to Stoke the season after the riots and went by 'the special'. We got off, no bother until we got out of the station. One copper on a horse shouting for everyone to stand still. Men at the front with kids were being threatend by a batton wielding gobshite on horseback. People were trying to get the ground but the coppers wanted us to 'march' to the ground under escort. There was a bit push and shove as people at the back didn't realise the police had blocked the way out. When an older man said about the crushing, he was told to 'shut the fuck up'. A few lads got angry with the police attitude and a chant of 'TOXTETH 81' went out. Their faces dropped and everyone then just walked to the ground with no trouble. It showed there was no need for the atittude the police had and were given under Thatcher.
I went to Stoke the season after the riots and went by 'the special'. We got off, no bother until we got out of the station. One copper on a horse shouting for everyone to stand still. Men at the front with kids were being threatend by a batton wielding gobshite on horseback. People were trying to get the ground but the coppers wanted us to 'march' to the ground under escort. There was a bit push and shove as people at the back didn't realise the police had blocked the way out. When an older man said about the crushing, he was told to 'shut the fuck up'. A few lads got angry with the police attitude and a chant of 'TOXTETH 81' went out. Their faces dropped and everyone then just walked to the ground with no trouble. It showed there was no need for the atittude the police had and were given under Thatcher.
Those were some scary times. I was living in a small border town south Wales at the time. I went to London regularly in those days, mainly clubbing and such like!!
I was driving through Lonndon, when a large gang of West Indians (I believe) came round the corner. They were turning cars over and smashing everything in their path. The car in front was turned over, but for some reason they just looked at my car, with me mates and me bricking it and smiled, before moving on. (The reggae that I was playing on the tape was always my reason why they just left us alone!!).
I have no idea why they left us alone, it was the first time that I thought "this is it", but not the last. Life has got me into many precarious positions, but that was the only time I was thankful for "Black Uhuru", what music, ahhh.
I was driving through Lonndon, when a large gang of West Indians (I believe) came round the corner. They were turning cars over and smashing everything in their path. The car in front was turned over, but for some reason they just looked at my car, with me mates and me bricking it and smiled, before moving on. (The reggae that I was playing on the tape was always my reason why they just left us alone!!).
I have no idea why they left us alone, it was the first time that I thought "this is it", but not the last. Life has got me into many precarious positions, but that was the only time I was thankful for "Black Uhuru", what music, ahhh.
Incidentally, it wasn't just 'Toxteth' - it kicked off all over the place in Merseyside... and all over the country.
A mate of mine got 6 months for putting through the window of the Midland Bank in Prescot after a mini riot.
I had another mate who ran his own window security shuttering business and became very rich post-riots. He's still a season ticket holder in the Upper Bullens as far as I know.
A mate of mine got 6 months for putting through the window of the Midland Bank in Prescot after a mini riot.
I had another mate who ran his own window security shuttering business and became very rich post-riots. He's still a season ticket holder in the Upper Bullens as far as I know.
I remember being in town the night the riots started. You could smell the burning buildings and the atmosphere in town was strange almost foreboding if that's the right word. It kicked off all over Liverpool and looked like law and order had collapsed. I remember coming home one night from drinking in Huyton and the town centre was full of Police on every corner and van loads patrolling the streets.
Those were the day's eh Martin, me, you, Rosie, Mooney etc - meeting at the Queens in Huyton and going on the ale for 12 hours with the match as halftime in the drinking session... trying to pull the barmaids in 'The Sportsman' or the strippers in the Hoffenbrau...
Phil (219) during the 70s a mob of us used to stand in the St End for games (running up from the Hermitage at 2.45).
About 1978, a feller started to stand close by each week. He was a couple of years younger than us but a big lump of a feller and looked 'very handy'
It was one of those situations where you don't KNOW who he is, but chat happily and after the game say "see you for the Carlisle game" or whatever.
Anyway, one week at (I think Garth Crooks) he starts to bellow (I mean BELLOW) the 'N word'.
There was nothing accompanying the word - no "You're shit!" or "fuck off!", just the word.
His face I remember was crimson.
I remember after talking with the lads and our opinion was basically "What about that big soft bastard, completely fucking deranged".
At the time we wouldn't have been the most 'politically correct' bunch, but were all 'left leaning' and I think he sensed we thought he was a prick and..erm..'not for us'.
Consequently, as the weeks went by, he started to chat to others (no doubt looking for like minds)
Anyway a year or so later I heard a feller say to him "Where have you been the last few weeks mate?, Not like you to miss"
His answer (I swear) was "Been in Hendon for a few weeks".
And he had - he became a plod.
In fact, from time to time, we'd actually see him on match duty (and fear for opposition supporters being arrested by him, particularly any non-caucasians)
The last time I saw him was about 25 years ago in the Supper bar queue.
Even though he was about 28 stone, I asked if he was still a copper.
"No, got thrown out for battering a couple of...."
He (obviously) hadn't changed and the incident that had got him the boot had apparently happened just before the riots, which suggested to me (nb: given what the police they were getting away with before the riots) he must have given them a HORRIBLE beating AND been filmed or photographed or the whole thing witnessed by about a hundred people)
He also told me he was now a bailiff and told me an incredible story about going to Melwood to collect money from a player.
(almost certainly bollocks but..kind of plausible)
About 1978, a feller started to stand close by each week. He was a couple of years younger than us but a big lump of a feller and looked 'very handy'
It was one of those situations where you don't KNOW who he is, but chat happily and after the game say "see you for the Carlisle game" or whatever.
Anyway, one week at (I think Garth Crooks) he starts to bellow (I mean BELLOW) the 'N word'.
There was nothing accompanying the word - no "You're shit!" or "fuck off!", just the word.
His face I remember was crimson.
I remember after talking with the lads and our opinion was basically "What about that big soft bastard, completely fucking deranged".
At the time we wouldn't have been the most 'politically correct' bunch, but were all 'left leaning' and I think he sensed we thought he was a prick and..erm..'not for us'.
Consequently, as the weeks went by, he started to chat to others (no doubt looking for like minds)
Anyway a year or so later I heard a feller say to him "Where have you been the last few weeks mate?, Not like you to miss"
His answer (I swear) was "Been in Hendon for a few weeks".
And he had - he became a plod.
In fact, from time to time, we'd actually see him on match duty (and fear for opposition supporters being arrested by him, particularly any non-caucasians)
The last time I saw him was about 25 years ago in the Supper bar queue.
Even though he was about 28 stone, I asked if he was still a copper.
"No, got thrown out for battering a couple of...."
He (obviously) hadn't changed and the incident that had got him the boot had apparently happened just before the riots, which suggested to me (nb: given what the police they were getting away with before the riots) he must have given them a HORRIBLE beating AND been filmed or photographed or the whole thing witnessed by about a hundred people)
He also told me he was now a bailiff and told me an incredible story about going to Melwood to collect money from a player.
(almost certainly bollocks but..kind of plausible)
I was living in Bootle then, driving taxis, dropped a fare close by that was enough. Always thought the post code looked scary anyway - Liverpool 8 - (Everton needed 9).
Phil Bellis
Think I might have known you - was your brother called John?
Think I might have known you - was your brother called John?
Jumped in a car and tried to get into L8 but the plod had it sealed off. All of us wanted revenge for Jimmy Kelly but we just got searched, twatted and abused and sent on our way. The riots weren't just in Tocky, but Huyton, Kirkby, Kenny, Speke and Birkenhead. As someone mentioned the Stoke police, I remember as a teenager going there for a night match and having to run a gauntlet of police and dogs to get back into the station. Absolute nasty bastards and their fans were causing all the aggro. Still, earlier on we got abuse from two guys on a motorbike. The lights turned red and about 40 blues fans caught up with them and dragged them off. Wish we'd had camfones then
I was back home from Uni with my new girlfiend - we lived in Chatsworth street at the time - and heard about the riots in the Augustus John (pub by the uni). we ran home, got the girls in the house and went to see if my uncle who lived in Lodge Lane was OK. Bedlam everywhere, We got stopped by a couple of lads with machetes asking us what we we were doing ... "shitting ourslves right now mate, but going to see me uncle" ... all the shops were being broken into and trashed except the pubs and betting shops. Scary times but a legitimate reason, as already described, withy my black mates and their families having a bad time from the police all through the 70s and 80's.
Brian Denton
All "leccy" as I remember - Rosebank House flats, Eastcroft - I believe they blew them up in the end.
Just looked on google maps, all traces gone, only Eastcroft school as a reminder - sends shivers down the spine recalling how people existed.
All "leccy" as I remember - Rosebank House flats, Eastcroft - I believe they blew them up in the end.
Just looked on google maps, all traces gone, only Eastcroft school as a reminder - sends shivers down the spine recalling how people existed.
So, we're both Kirkby lads made good(-ish in my case !) I had a friend who lived in Ravenscroft, but can't claim to come from Tower Hill myself. I haven't been back that way in decades.
Happy memory's Kevin before kids and shit. Not seen Mooney for 24 years and Ste for 10ish
If you ever do see Mooney Martin tell him he still owes me £30 quid for that away trip to Southampton when he nearly wiped us both out at a crossroads in Birmingham...
Kevin he owes me more than that mate so don't hold your breath . Could say more but it wouldn't be appropriate on an open forum lol.
The riots spread all over Merseyside. Even maghull deyes lane chippy and the other shops neighboring it got their windows put thru! Do remember the black marias and my dad warning me to be dead careful of them....
Brian (291)
Only lived there for 4 years, put my missus up the duff when we were 17 and as her family lived in Southcroft we easily got a flat because half of them were empty.
Aside from the violence and crime the benefits system was fantastic, allowances for decorating, cookers, furniture, rent paid - I was worse off when I got work at the Birds Eye factory.
I was actually brought up in Walton, off Rice Lane, in one of those roads where the backs of the terraced houses faced each other seperated by a jigger.
Would have been about 10yrs old when me and the girl opposite started to expose ourselves to each other through the bedroom windows - sweet memories.
Only lived there for 4 years, put my missus up the duff when we were 17 and as her family lived in Southcroft we easily got a flat because half of them were empty.
Aside from the violence and crime the benefits system was fantastic, allowances for decorating, cookers, furniture, rent paid - I was worse off when I got work at the Birds Eye factory.
I was actually brought up in Walton, off Rice Lane, in one of those roads where the backs of the terraced houses faced each other seperated by a jigger.
Would have been about 10yrs old when me and the girl opposite started to expose ourselves to each other through the bedroom windows - sweet memories.
Although I thought it was massively to the credit of the city that it didn't follow the trend last August. Everybody has this negative stereotypical view of Scousers and lots of Southerners were convinced Liverpool would burn but, from the reports I saw, a small group tried to start looting and some of the locals turned on them.
The riots of '81 were important because they made the police more accountable. The riots of '11 were mostly a damning reflection of how lazy and greedy society has become because it descended into looting.
The riots of '81 were important because they made the police more accountable. The riots of '11 were mostly a damning reflection of how lazy and greedy society has become because it descended into looting.
It all kicked off in Crosby around 11-00 on the Saturday too. State-23 set fire to some chip paper outside Greco's chippie and banged on the door of the bike store next door. Then, menacingly, State-23 walked up and down Coronation Road and up and over to Moor Lane, snarling, sneering, waving fists in the air, singing our sympathies with the riot[er)s, until we saw a cop car. It hard to torch anything in Crosby. We did our best, but the Old Bill intimidated us.
State-23 were listening to Ghost Town that night and loved to dance to Do Nothing in a sort of line formation. We were wearing thick sweaters that we would wrap around out shoulders Haircut-100 style. Our soundtrack also included Genius of Love and we loved to walk on the wheels of steel with Grandmaster.
I had forgotten about Gerry Mullan - fuck me, that was desperate.
State-23 were listening to Ghost Town that night and loved to dance to Do Nothing in a sort of line formation. We were wearing thick sweaters that we would wrap around out shoulders Haircut-100 style. Our soundtrack also included Genius of Love and we loved to walk on the wheels of steel with Grandmaster.
I had forgotten about Gerry Mullan - fuck me, that was desperate.
I remember going to see Iggy Pop at The Royal Court during the riots. My mate Jimmy was part of the stage crew at the gig. Iggy had been told not to jump off the stage as this might incite trouble. Ofcourse, Iggy came on and jumped straight into the crowd!
Rose-coloured specs are a wonderful thing!!
If, as someone before said, the riots were a legitimate response to the way L8 was policed, then why was the Rialto torched or the old NatWest Bank or the dairy or all the shops on Lodge and Smithdown!?? What beef did the locals have with those businesses??? Britain in the 70s and 80s was a twat of a place for lots of reasons and yes for inner cities one of those reasons was the policing methods. But don't tell me Toxteth, Brixton, Broadwater Farm, St Paul's etc was a legitimate response.
Last year's disorder was claimed to be a legitimate response too. But to what?? Not having designer trainers or a iPad??? Or was that all the police's fault too??
From someone who stood with a plastic shield for protection on Lodge Lane last year, don't try and convince me it's a legitimate response to the put upon local communities who simply saw the dickheads in London getting away with it and, like the sheep in Manchester and Birmingham, thought they'd have a go too.
Thankfully, the police have moved with the times. Sadly, the mindless minority who think it's okay to trash their own neighbourhood and ruin honest hardworking businesses haven't.
And as for the "Huyton riots" or Kirkby or Birkenhead ..... Do me a favour!! A few teenagers copying what the see on the telly isn't the definition of a riot!!
As for the Everton team of 81.... They were shite too!!! Jim McGonagh in goal says it all!!!
If, as someone before said, the riots were a legitimate response to the way L8 was policed, then why was the Rialto torched or the old NatWest Bank or the dairy or all the shops on Lodge and Smithdown!?? What beef did the locals have with those businesses??? Britain in the 70s and 80s was a twat of a place for lots of reasons and yes for inner cities one of those reasons was the policing methods. But don't tell me Toxteth, Brixton, Broadwater Farm, St Paul's etc was a legitimate response.
Last year's disorder was claimed to be a legitimate response too. But to what?? Not having designer trainers or a iPad??? Or was that all the police's fault too??
From someone who stood with a plastic shield for protection on Lodge Lane last year, don't try and convince me it's a legitimate response to the put upon local communities who simply saw the dickheads in London getting away with it and, like the sheep in Manchester and Birmingham, thought they'd have a go too.
Thankfully, the police have moved with the times. Sadly, the mindless minority who think it's okay to trash their own neighbourhood and ruin honest hardworking businesses haven't.
And as for the "Huyton riots" or Kirkby or Birkenhead ..... Do me a favour!! A few teenagers copying what the see on the telly isn't the definition of a riot!!
As for the Everton team of 81.... They were shite too!!! Jim McGonagh in goal says it all!!!
When the voice of the people is stifled, what else can they do to bring attention to their plight? Where the suffragettes wrong to break the law? Would the lot of the police force be what it is today if it wasn't for them striking (against the law) in Liverpool in 1919 and would we be stuck with Nyarko if that guy hadn't ran onto the pitch and tried to swap shirts?
Nice post from Nick Clegg (406). Needless to say. the 'mindless' rioters/protestors were on the streets for the love of riot alone. The 'dickheads' had no social, cultural, environmental, or cultural contexts and reasons for their despair/frustration. There is no earthly reason at all for anyone between the ages of say 16-24 to feel dejected, rejected, or shoved to one side. There is no earthly reason at all for frustrations to ignite. There is no life-chance context at all. They are all to the last one 'mindless; 'dickheads'.
I really have issues with the Clegg-like 'local communities' stuff. Should they have rented a bus and gone to smash up shops in Skipton, Havant, Melton Mowbray, Hinckley, Bude ...... ? People take to streets where they live, suffer, perhaps feel they have no place or stake.
Doesn't mean it's right. Doesn't mean it's 'legitimate'. But in many cases, not all, it's fucking understandable or, at any rate, the motives for being on the streets that time were rather more complex than 'mindless dickheads' might imply.
I don't like the coalition, fuck context, 'mindless dickhead' with nothing to moan about bullshit of post-406. Sorry that you were inconvenienced that night, Sean, and I am, but your attitude gets us absolutely fucking nowhere.
I really have issues with the Clegg-like 'local communities' stuff. Should they have rented a bus and gone to smash up shops in Skipton, Havant, Melton Mowbray, Hinckley, Bude ...... ? People take to streets where they live, suffer, perhaps feel they have no place or stake.
Doesn't mean it's right. Doesn't mean it's 'legitimate'. But in many cases, not all, it's fucking understandable or, at any rate, the motives for being on the streets that time were rather more complex than 'mindless dickheads' might imply.
I don't like the coalition, fuck context, 'mindless dickhead' with nothing to moan about bullshit of post-406. Sorry that you were inconvenienced that night, Sean, and I am, but your attitude gets us absolutely fucking nowhere.
Amen to that Paul F. As much as last years riots couldn't be justified, the sentences handed down to individuals involved for relatively minor offences have been scandalous. But all is well, as its only the scummy working classes, and of course they're fair game anyway.
The Scarman report 1981, which was primarily a report into the Brixton riots but also covered Toxteth concluded that social deprivation and heavy handed policing were both causal factors - at that time unemployment in Liverpool was running at about 14% but in Liverpool 8 it was about 4 or 5 times that.
I remember the 'suss laws' - as a young bloke I did Judo and Karate and loads of times when I trained at the top of Granby Street I was stopped had my bag kit bag searched, often by the same coppers - one time I'd left a small box of watchmakers screwdrivers and a micrometer I'd either bought or nicked from work and they had me for 8 hours in Coppras Hill lock-up and were going to do me for 'going equipped' - they took the tools and pissed all over my Judo kit, so I had to chuck it away.
Now, I was white with a 'posh' scouse accent and an outsider- fuck knows how bad it would have gone if I'd been a black kid and from the area.
I remember the 'suss laws' - as a young bloke I did Judo and Karate and loads of times when I trained at the top of Granby Street I was stopped had my bag kit bag searched, often by the same coppers - one time I'd left a small box of watchmakers screwdrivers and a micrometer I'd either bought or nicked from work and they had me for 8 hours in Coppras Hill lock-up and were going to do me for 'going equipped' - they took the tools and pissed all over my Judo kit, so I had to chuck it away.
Now, I was white with a 'posh' scouse accent and an outsider- fuck knows how bad it would have gone if I'd been a black kid and from the area.
Spot on Paul (423).
Very angry wasn't it - treble exclamation and question marks all over the show (I was almost singing "Are you Kelvin in disguise?)
I'm just surprised it didn't finish..
"They should bring back the birch, national service and hanging - GRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!'
It's strange, In the past couple of years, our elected politicians (nb: many privileged BEFORE they get their MP's wages) fiddled the fuck out of their expenses (just about every single one of them).
Then the banks, with the help of the politicians, basically fucked the future for a generation or two.
Sheer, naked, old fashioned greed.
"I've more than I'll ever need but.....I want more"
People's response seemed to be a tut, a shake of the head, rolling their eyes and "Well what do you expect, they're all alike"
What I DIDN'T see was real, genuine, seething anger.
Or mass arrests of the culprits.
Quite the reverse in fact - bankers were 'rewarded' (and still are) and most politicians got away with the insulting and pathetic "I made a mistake" (nb: "I made a mistake", in this context, was imo like all the politicians signing a letter to the British public saying "We think you're a bunch of docile gullible wankers")
When I (we) DID see/hear genuine anger was when images of trainees and TV's being robbed by kids were broadcast.
"PUT EM' ALL UP AGAINST A FUCKING WALL!!!!" etc blah.
Special courts were set up IMMEDIATELY (nb: by a PM who was part of an elite dining club that had vandalised a restaurant) and people were getting sent down for the crime of receiving...a six-pack of sports socks.
It was an illusion, a sleight-of-hand trick but one where you could see RIGHT up the magician's sleeve.
Oddly though, it seems many saw nothing (the blind?) and the old British working class deference to privileged posh men in suits is still, apparently, ingrained in many.
Very angry wasn't it - treble exclamation and question marks all over the show (I was almost singing "Are you Kelvin in disguise?)
I'm just surprised it didn't finish..
"They should bring back the birch, national service and hanging - GRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!'
It's strange, In the past couple of years, our elected politicians (nb: many privileged BEFORE they get their MP's wages) fiddled the fuck out of their expenses (just about every single one of them).
Then the banks, with the help of the politicians, basically fucked the future for a generation or two.
Sheer, naked, old fashioned greed.
"I've more than I'll ever need but.....I want more"
People's response seemed to be a tut, a shake of the head, rolling their eyes and "Well what do you expect, they're all alike"
What I DIDN'T see was real, genuine, seething anger.
Or mass arrests of the culprits.
Quite the reverse in fact - bankers were 'rewarded' (and still are) and most politicians got away with the insulting and pathetic "I made a mistake" (nb: "I made a mistake", in this context, was imo like all the politicians signing a letter to the British public saying "We think you're a bunch of docile gullible wankers")
When I (we) DID see/hear genuine anger was when images of trainees and TV's being robbed by kids were broadcast.
"PUT EM' ALL UP AGAINST A FUCKING WALL!!!!" etc blah.
Special courts were set up IMMEDIATELY (nb: by a PM who was part of an elite dining club that had vandalised a restaurant) and people were getting sent down for the crime of receiving...a six-pack of sports socks.
It was an illusion, a sleight-of-hand trick but one where you could see RIGHT up the magician's sleeve.
Oddly though, it seems many saw nothing (the blind?) and the old British working class deference to privileged posh men in suits is still, apparently, ingrained in many.
Quite clearly, there are some commenters on here who have never lived in or had any experience of the real world of the police state that was Toxteth in the 70's and 80's.
Putting the riots all down to wanton copycat destruction ignores the fact that if D copies C and C copied B then what was the reason for A starting the riots in the first place? Well, the reason was that Toxteth was treated by the gestapo-like police in the same way as was the Warsaw
ghetto in 1941.
Stop and search, bullying, jailing and the physical assault of Toxteth residents were carried out by police with impunity and with the support and encouragement of a Chief Constable (Oxford) who believed that that was the way to manage the inner cities.
Those people who believe the riots were the manifestation of purely wanton behaviour on the part of an unruly mob need to read the reports written about the policing of Toxteth following the inquiry and the speeches and comments made by the two bishops and Smiley.
Brixton and Bristol were riots that were at least partly engendered by racial tensions between different elements within the community, Toxteth was entirely different and somewhat unique in that the only racial element was that engendered by the police's attitude to the black community but nevertheless a black community that was not alone in being penalised and degraded by a police force that felt it was it's role to enforce a social conformity that the local residents could not and would not accept.
Recognition of the failings of the policing tactics in Toxteth helped more than any other social development to promote a nationwide reassessment of policing in the country as a whole and this was partly as a result of the recognition that the Toxteth riots could not be simplistically and conveniently blamed on racial tensions within the community.
Nobody likes to experience riots but when riots like Toxteth happen, when black and white kids man barricades together with the reluctant support of many older people within the community it shouts loudly that something was very, very wrong....and something was incredibly wrong and this was recognized by the inquiry and the report that followed it.
When a community is oppressed and all democratic means of resolving the problem are closed the only solution is to take to the streets and if this means that an element of ne'er-do-wells takes advantage, then that takes nothing whatsoever from the original grievance.
We sit at home watching the riots in Tunisia, Egypt and Libya and feel pleasure in the knowledge that people are resisting opression.
That is all that happened in Toxteth so why should it be so wrong just because the opression and the riots happened here in our city?
Putting the riots all down to wanton copycat destruction ignores the fact that if D copies C and C copied B then what was the reason for A starting the riots in the first place? Well, the reason was that Toxteth was treated by the gestapo-like police in the same way as was the Warsaw
ghetto in 1941.
Stop and search, bullying, jailing and the physical assault of Toxteth residents were carried out by police with impunity and with the support and encouragement of a Chief Constable (Oxford) who believed that that was the way to manage the inner cities.
Those people who believe the riots were the manifestation of purely wanton behaviour on the part of an unruly mob need to read the reports written about the policing of Toxteth following the inquiry and the speeches and comments made by the two bishops and Smiley.
Brixton and Bristol were riots that were at least partly engendered by racial tensions between different elements within the community, Toxteth was entirely different and somewhat unique in that the only racial element was that engendered by the police's attitude to the black community but nevertheless a black community that was not alone in being penalised and degraded by a police force that felt it was it's role to enforce a social conformity that the local residents could not and would not accept.
Recognition of the failings of the policing tactics in Toxteth helped more than any other social development to promote a nationwide reassessment of policing in the country as a whole and this was partly as a result of the recognition that the Toxteth riots could not be simplistically and conveniently blamed on racial tensions within the community.
Nobody likes to experience riots but when riots like Toxteth happen, when black and white kids man barricades together with the reluctant support of many older people within the community it shouts loudly that something was very, very wrong....and something was incredibly wrong and this was recognized by the inquiry and the report that followed it.
When a community is oppressed and all democratic means of resolving the problem are closed the only solution is to take to the streets and if this means that an element of ne'er-do-wells takes advantage, then that takes nothing whatsoever from the original grievance.
We sit at home watching the riots in Tunisia, Egypt and Libya and feel pleasure in the knowledge that people are resisting opression.
That is all that happened in Toxteth so why should it be so wrong just because the opression and the riots happened here in our city?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLDGpBVHzD8
It's true he WASN'T convicted, but only because the German feller who owned the greenhouses decided it would be better if Clegg came to his house and helped repair the damage.
He agreed to this and avoided a charge.
To hear him and his ilk moralising makes me want to puke.
It's true he WASN'T convicted, but only because the German feller who owned the greenhouses decided it would be better if Clegg came to his house and helped repair the damage.
He agreed to this and avoided a charge.
To hear him and his ilk moralising makes me want to puke.
The OP asked for personal memories of the time, so I'm going down that road...
July 1981. I'm waiting for the 82c near Williamson Square. I've just stepped off the train at Lime Street after my first trip abroad - a week in glamorous Paris. I wait and I wait and I wait - but the bloody bus doesn't come. I ask an old gent at the bus stop what's happening, and he says there's been some trouble with "youths" in Toxteth.
I'm 20 years old, and the opening chords of "Anarchy in the UK" are ingrained in my soul, yet somehow I don't feel part of this uprising. I salute the violent subversion of it, but at the same time it seems kind of pointless to wreck your own neightbourhood. In the next few weeks, as my bus from Speke takes me along Park Lane or Princes Avenue and I take in the wreckage, I find myself thinking that I'm glad I'm due to head off to college down south in the autumn. I'm as proud as hell of Liverpool, but (as the song goes) I've got to get out of this place, if it's the last thing I ever do.
As for football, I'd gone right off it. After going to the match regularly doing the Bingham and Lee years, and playing the game non-stop, I'd decided there were more interesting things in life. I was a right clever dickhead, and no mistaking.
Still, it takes all sorts, and during the 80s many people left (like me) to get an education and never came back to The Pool. Yes, that's was our loss - but in a way it was the city's too, because Liverpool's greatness rested on it being a melting pot, a place where different kinds of people came together, got along and inspired each other. It seemed that, after Thatcher has bombed the fuck out of Merseyside, it was a place of less variety. I may be wrong - in summer 81 I used to think my red Kickers boots were the epitome of cool, so my judgement could be a bit iffy - but that's what it felt like to me. That's my experience.
All of which brings to mind a relevant post-punk classic from those golden days, Babylon's Burning by The Ruts. If anyone's interested, go to... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCkNu9OxThc
July 1981. I'm waiting for the 82c near Williamson Square. I've just stepped off the train at Lime Street after my first trip abroad - a week in glamorous Paris. I wait and I wait and I wait - but the bloody bus doesn't come. I ask an old gent at the bus stop what's happening, and he says there's been some trouble with "youths" in Toxteth.
I'm 20 years old, and the opening chords of "Anarchy in the UK" are ingrained in my soul, yet somehow I don't feel part of this uprising. I salute the violent subversion of it, but at the same time it seems kind of pointless to wreck your own neightbourhood. In the next few weeks, as my bus from Speke takes me along Park Lane or Princes Avenue and I take in the wreckage, I find myself thinking that I'm glad I'm due to head off to college down south in the autumn. I'm as proud as hell of Liverpool, but (as the song goes) I've got to get out of this place, if it's the last thing I ever do.
As for football, I'd gone right off it. After going to the match regularly doing the Bingham and Lee years, and playing the game non-stop, I'd decided there were more interesting things in life. I was a right clever dickhead, and no mistaking.
Still, it takes all sorts, and during the 80s many people left (like me) to get an education and never came back to The Pool. Yes, that's was our loss - but in a way it was the city's too, because Liverpool's greatness rested on it being a melting pot, a place where different kinds of people came together, got along and inspired each other. It seemed that, after Thatcher has bombed the fuck out of Merseyside, it was a place of less variety. I may be wrong - in summer 81 I used to think my red Kickers boots were the epitome of cool, so my judgement could be a bit iffy - but that's what it felt like to me. That's my experience.
All of which brings to mind a relevant post-punk classic from those golden days, Babylon's Burning by The Ruts. If anyone's interested, go to... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCkNu9OxThc
As a 15-year-old living in Kent and just about to attend my first game at Goodison Park a month after the riots (Kendall's first game as Manager against Birmingham: we won 3-1), I remember this very well. Partly because it was a week before the Royal wedding of Charles and Diana and the eyes of the world were on Britain. How Thatcher hated this happening and showing her up!
I also remember my Mum questioning whether it was safe to go and me telling her I would be going even if the riots were outside Goodison! But what it kind of re-affirmed was that Liverpool was very different to down South, but also not in the stereotypical ways associated with twats like Harry Enfield.
Just as Scousers think Kent is all like Tunbridge Wells (try spending some time in Chatham and Gillingham if you really believe that), many southerners at the time just viewed Liverpool as full of lazy strikers (not the Saha variety!?) but this was an eye opener for many. What was still the friendly bobby on the beat to lots of middle England was now shown up to be a power crazed bully.
Not all police are bad by any means, but I have always thought it takes a certain type of person to want to do that job and, when not answerable for their actions, they can become out of control.
I agree that local businesses did not deserve to be burnt down, but people should also think about the level of desperation you must have sunk to for rioting to even become an option. I guess it's probably when you feel you have nothing left to lose, nobody is listening and something has to change.
A month later I arrived on my own in Liverpool for the match, excited, but not having a clue how to get from Lime Street to Goodison, but a man and his son going to the game spotted me and accompanied me on the bus and stayed with me during the game before directing me to my bus by Stanley Park afterwards. The true face of Liverpool in my eyes.
Most people anywhere are friendly and decent, but treat them badly and they will eventually fight back just as happened in Liverpool 8.
I also remember my Mum questioning whether it was safe to go and me telling her I would be going even if the riots were outside Goodison! But what it kind of re-affirmed was that Liverpool was very different to down South, but also not in the stereotypical ways associated with twats like Harry Enfield.
Just as Scousers think Kent is all like Tunbridge Wells (try spending some time in Chatham and Gillingham if you really believe that), many southerners at the time just viewed Liverpool as full of lazy strikers (not the Saha variety!?) but this was an eye opener for many. What was still the friendly bobby on the beat to lots of middle England was now shown up to be a power crazed bully.
Not all police are bad by any means, but I have always thought it takes a certain type of person to want to do that job and, when not answerable for their actions, they can become out of control.
I agree that local businesses did not deserve to be burnt down, but people should also think about the level of desperation you must have sunk to for rioting to even become an option. I guess it's probably when you feel you have nothing left to lose, nobody is listening and something has to change.
A month later I arrived on my own in Liverpool for the match, excited, but not having a clue how to get from Lime Street to Goodison, but a man and his son going to the game spotted me and accompanied me on the bus and stayed with me during the game before directing me to my bus by Stanley Park afterwards. The true face of Liverpool in my eyes.
Most people anywhere are friendly and decent, but treat them badly and they will eventually fight back just as happened in Liverpool 8.
If you treat people like animals,dont be surprised if they react like animals.
Karl. There were lots of rights and wrongs about the country and the riots. It could be debated forever.
As for 'a certain kind of person' wanting to be a policeman then you are wrong. One of the most decent blokes I ever knew got a flagstone in the face and was well and truly battered during those riots because he was a copper. Helping a civilian at the time as it happens.
As for 'a certain kind of person' wanting to be a policeman then you are wrong. One of the most decent blokes I ever knew got a flagstone in the face and was well and truly battered during those riots because he was a copper. Helping a civilian at the time as it happens.
Dad was a teacher at Edge Hill secondary school at the time. He told me about the kids at school trading in dodgy swag following the bother. White goods bargains top of the list.
John - 556, As a fifteen yr old at the time going to Edge Hill, I dont recall any of the lads buying / selling fridge freezers at the school gates !
Neil that's because you were to busy chasing girls and getting your sheet welding certificates at that time ;-)
Neil, im pretty sure they werent actually brought to school. They wouldnt fit in a pencil case. ;-)
I'm sure no one's reading this thread anymore. If you are, I apologize for not responding sooner. Thanks to all.
In chronological order:
Eric (158) - Old time drama missing today, no. Just these few years later.
Gavin (161) - "Police surveillance camera found here". Good to see a sense of humor applied amidst all that.
Kevin (184) - Regarding both EFC and Toxteth (especially), great stuff. Almost war correspondant.
Eugene (186) - Great anecdote on your flat. Assuming you made up for skipping on rent by your donations into the church basket.
Barry (203) - Extra special. Dickens can move over a minute for Rathbone. Beautifully written. Why I knew I could ask about Toxteth in ToffeeWeb.
Phil (219) - Front-line reporting. Fantaastic stuff. As with Basil's response, the reason I asked TWers.
Dean (228) - In the middle of abandon, the settling spirit of music. Black Uhuru is it? I'll give em a listen in respect of their music preventing you being delivered a major ass-kicking.
In chronological order:
Eric (158) - Old time drama missing today, no. Just these few years later.
Gavin (161) - "Police surveillance camera found here". Good to see a sense of humor applied amidst all that.
Kevin (184) - Regarding both EFC and Toxteth (especially), great stuff. Almost war correspondant.
Eugene (186) - Great anecdote on your flat. Assuming you made up for skipping on rent by your donations into the church basket.
Barry (203) - Extra special. Dickens can move over a minute for Rathbone. Beautifully written. Why I knew I could ask about Toxteth in ToffeeWeb.
Phil (219) - Front-line reporting. Fantaastic stuff. As with Basil's response, the reason I asked TWers.
Dean (228) - In the middle of abandon, the settling spirit of music. Black Uhuru is it? I'll give em a listen in respect of their music preventing you being delivered a major ass-kicking.
Martin (242) - "the atmosphere in town was strange almost foreboding if that's the right word".
Must have been the right word if you were feeling it.
Great response. Thanks.
Eugene (250) - Yup. Some guys should NOT be issued a badge and gun (over here they get guns). More importantly, the guy in charge of the police is critical. The fellows on the street go to work with their atitude shaped by those in charge.
100s of police injured in Liverpool 8? Something wrong with leadership. Not the folks who lived there.
Denis (259) - " We got stopped by a couple of lads with machetes asking us what we we were doing ... "shitting ourslves right now mate, but going to see me uncle"
Lucky you. Good stuff. Thanks for replying.
Paul (394) - What's State- 23?
Paul (413) - Who's Nick Clegg? I get the tone of your post> But what did Sean post at (406) make you call him Clegg?
Dave (437) - Freont line reporting brother. Terrific stuff. What other sports discussion board but ToffeeWeb could I ask a question about a riot 30 years ago and get answers like yours.
Karl (465) - There's an Evertonian. Good on you.
Rob (529) - Too bad on your mate. What happened to him likely the result of the worthless dickheads who wore the same uniform as him.
A terrible business, but who's to blame in the end?
Must have been the right word if you were feeling it.
Great response. Thanks.
Eugene (250) - Yup. Some guys should NOT be issued a badge and gun (over here they get guns). More importantly, the guy in charge of the police is critical. The fellows on the street go to work with their atitude shaped by those in charge.
100s of police injured in Liverpool 8? Something wrong with leadership. Not the folks who lived there.
Denis (259) - " We got stopped by a couple of lads with machetes asking us what we we were doing ... "shitting ourslves right now mate, but going to see me uncle"
Lucky you. Good stuff. Thanks for replying.
Paul (394) - What's State- 23?
Paul (413) - Who's Nick Clegg? I get the tone of your post> But what did Sean post at (406) make you call him Clegg?
Dave (437) - Freont line reporting brother. Terrific stuff. What other sports discussion board but ToffeeWeb could I ask a question about a riot 30 years ago and get answers like yours.
Karl (465) - There's an Evertonian. Good on you.
Rob (529) - Too bad on your mate. What happened to him likely the result of the worthless dickheads who wore the same uniform as him.
A terrible business, but who's to blame in the end?
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158 Posted 28/04/2012 at 07:02:15
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The night it kicked off I was down in London and early the next day started a hitching holiday around Europe.
Everywhere I went when I told them I was from Liverpool they immediately said 'Toxteth Riots" and I had no idea what they were talking about
Pre-internet days too so no chance to find out either but it made a change from them only knowing about the RS.