Season 2011-12
The Mail Bag
Where to strengthen... Who to sell
106 Comments: First of all, let me start by saying that after our semi-final capitulation I was one of the people calling for the head of David Moyes. I still stand by that reaction but also realise that we're stuck with him for the foreseeable future and I accept that.
With that said however, there have been a couple of very interesting news stories on the site lately that have made me think that just maybe he ain't as bad as all that.
The first is the one where he states he'd love to keep Pienaar and will have a word with Bill to make it happen. That's great news. It means Moyes isn't so clueless that he can't see we're a much stronger team with some creativity on that left flank. The other article that got me thinking was the one where Moyes is quoted as saying this:
"We've now got a forward who can score (Nikica Jelavic) but maybe we are lacking a bit of creativity. I can see pictures and directions of where we should be going that will probably help us progress again. That's what I will talk to Bill about."
Now to me that sounds like someone who knows what he wants and is going to make sure he gets it. So, ToffeeWebbers, which positions would you like to see us strengthen and who would you sell to finance this?
For me I'd cash in on Rodwell and Jagielka. Both are young, great players on their day and most importantly in terms of cash value, they're English. Using the money from those sales (and some for the bank of course, heh) I'd make sure we get cover at LB for Baines, a pacy Right winger plus an all round midfield player. If there's one thing Moyes used to be good at it was finding gems in the lower leagues (Jags, Lescott, Arteta) and bringing them up to snuff.
We absolutely must not sell Fellaini, Baines or (and I can't really believe Moyes would) Jelavic. Those are the players our team should be built around.
Paul Mackie, Posted 29/04/2012 at 10:19:53
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We should cash in on Rodwell? I may be wrong, but who exactly is going to want him? He has been injured all year? It would be financially irrational to sell him for the paltry amount we would get for him this year.
I think Baines would actually be the best of the big three to go. With enough money we could balance the midfield more, bring in someone like Victor Moses who would offer us the pace and penetration that Baines currently does. Baines is a great player, but a left back, regardless of ability, is more replaceable at our level than a striker or midfielder.
Jagielka. I agree should no longer be considered irreplaceable. I would build the defence around Heitinga who would also be the next captain. With his form and age, he isnt 'young' is he? i dont think we would get any more than the 8m that was offered by Arsenal in the close season.
I think Baines would actually be the best of the big three to go. With enough money we could balance the midfield more, bring in someone like Victor Moses who would offer us the pace and penetration that Baines currently does. Baines is a great player, but a left back, regardless of ability, is more replaceable at our level than a striker or midfielder.
Jagielka. I agree should no longer be considered irreplaceable. I would build the defence around Heitinga who would also be the next captain. With his form and age, he isnt 'young' is he? i dont think we would get any more than the 8m that was offered by Arsenal in the close season.
Sorry about some of the repetition, the first posting was a mailbag article i submitted!
Rodwell needs to find a spot in the team straight away. For a club in our position he is only useful for us as a star performer or as 20 million pounds in the bank, we can't just have him sitting on the bench. If he's as good as everyone at Everton said he could be then I'd put him at CB with Heitinga and have Distin and Duffy for cover. That would mean selling Jagielka. This was the position Rodwell grew up with (he has never looked like he could play midfield) and we'd have two of the best ball playing CBs in the league. I'd also sell Fellaini, I don't thin he's as valuable to us as Pienaar Jelavic or Baines and he'd get a big price. We've played good football without him in the past (often better)and finding a big target man (which is essentially what we've started playing him as) is not difficult (unless you're Liverpool). Gibson appears to be our holding mid, and Fellaini doesn't really have the guile to play as a creative mid, our play got so much slower and more negative with backwards passing once Gibson went off agianst Fulham and Fellaini and Neville were in the centre. How many times did Jelavic touch the ball in the second half? Fellaini's looked good upfront but someone like Kevin Davies could do the job of making himself a nuisance aerially and holding the ball up with his back to goal. Fellani is not going to curl it in from 25 yards or jink his way into the box. That's why I think if we sold him we wouldn't miss him.
Sales will be dictated by a combination of necessity & offers received, as always.
We wouldn't miss Fellaini? Whatever.
For me Fellaini is the best defensive midfielder in the prem, we would have to get offered big big big money to ever consider selling him for me.
As a few people have mentioned I think that Jagielka is probably the person who could command a decent fee and is replacable, we have played so much better without him in the team this year. I would still be wanting £10m plus and more like £15m to sell.
I would not sell baines or Jelavic for the world, I think players on the fringe of the team need to step up next year or we cut our losses, rodwell was showing glimpses at the beginning of the season thats why he got an england call up but if we got a big offer for him we would have to take it because right now losing him wouldnt disrupt him at all. That said we need to get rid of older players before they lose their value (jags) and try and replace with 2 players.
Matt Jarvis for me would be a great signing, I think we could end up being bent over for piennar unless something is already agreed.
Wolves have a few attacking players that could be worth a go and there are a few good possible bosmans but I fear we might not end up having any luck there, diame, rodellega and hoilett on a free would be fantastic.
As a few people have mentioned I think that Jagielka is probably the person who could command a decent fee and is replacable, we have played so much better without him in the team this year. I would still be wanting £10m plus and more like £15m to sell.
I would not sell baines or Jelavic for the world, I think players on the fringe of the team need to step up next year or we cut our losses, rodwell was showing glimpses at the beginning of the season thats why he got an england call up but if we got a big offer for him we would have to take it because right now losing him wouldnt disrupt him at all. That said we need to get rid of older players before they lose their value (jags) and try and replace with 2 players.
Matt Jarvis for me would be a great signing, I think we could end up being bent over for piennar unless something is already agreed.
Wolves have a few attacking players that could be worth a go and there are a few good possible bosmans but I fear we might not end up having any luck there, diame, rodellega and hoilett on a free would be fantastic.
I would not like to sell any of our top players, but as we really have no options then we may need to use this method in order to raise some capital.
So reluctantly I would sell Jags, but only if we could get around £10 million. This would allow us to buy Pienaar and leave us some cash for a much needed right back, to be able to build attacks down that flank. Hibbo is rather limited, he has his uses in certain games but not really at the same level as the rest of the team.
So reluctantly I would sell Jags, but only if we could get around £10 million. This would allow us to buy Pienaar and leave us some cash for a much needed right back, to be able to build attacks down that flank. Hibbo is rather limited, he has his uses in certain games but not really at the same level as the rest of the team.
People are saying sell Jags but that would mean replacing him as well as trying to use the money to sign wingers or attacking midfielders and what have ya?!.
Yeah, we have Distin but he's 34, 35 and only a year left on his deal and I'm sure won't be offered a new one so we would need to replace him as well. We have Duffy but he's not ready yet; don't get me wrong, he's shown up well in the games he's played but he's still too inexperienced ATM.
I'd keep Jags and partner him with Heitinga, they're the 2 main CBs for us next season.
If there was still interest in Rodwell then I'd try and get as much as possible for him cos there's no-one else I'd rather sell. I'd want us to keep Baines, Felli, Barkley and Jags and the likes of Anichebe and Cahill wouldn't fetch much in and I'm not sure anyone would be interested in 'em?
It would actually be nice, for once, for the board to club together and get some funds for Moyes so he could possibly sign a right winger with pace and quality that we need, possibly a RB as well. I think we can groom Barkley to play off behind Jelavic in the next couple of years so I don't think we need to buy an attacking midfielder when we have Cahill and Ossie who can play there till Barkley kicks on.
I think if we can get Pienaar signed up permanently and get in a decent right winger and not sell any of our best players then we can make do with the squad we've got for another season and hopefully do better and be in with a shout of Europe cos our squad isn't that bad as it is and then next season just add another bit to the jigsaw and go like that.
Yeah, we have Distin but he's 34, 35 and only a year left on his deal and I'm sure won't be offered a new one so we would need to replace him as well. We have Duffy but he's not ready yet; don't get me wrong, he's shown up well in the games he's played but he's still too inexperienced ATM.
I'd keep Jags and partner him with Heitinga, they're the 2 main CBs for us next season.
If there was still interest in Rodwell then I'd try and get as much as possible for him cos there's no-one else I'd rather sell. I'd want us to keep Baines, Felli, Barkley and Jags and the likes of Anichebe and Cahill wouldn't fetch much in and I'm not sure anyone would be interested in 'em?
It would actually be nice, for once, for the board to club together and get some funds for Moyes so he could possibly sign a right winger with pace and quality that we need, possibly a RB as well. I think we can groom Barkley to play off behind Jelavic in the next couple of years so I don't think we need to buy an attacking midfielder when we have Cahill and Ossie who can play there till Barkley kicks on.
I think if we can get Pienaar signed up permanently and get in a decent right winger and not sell any of our best players then we can make do with the squad we've got for another season and hopefully do better and be in with a shout of Europe cos our squad isn't that bad as it is and then next season just add another bit to the jigsaw and go like that.
The eventual Yobo money should fund the Pienaar transfer this summer!
Anichebe!! Sell him for a quid (if we can get it) and put his wages towards someone who will contribute to the squad.
I realise the Fellaini to Chelsea rumour is just that at the moment, but I could see that move happening.
Chelsea have a midfield with a few players the wrong side of thirty, and they will be spending this summer. Didn't Fellaini's old man try to start this ball rolling a couple of seasons back ? I think he is also his agent, so that would mean a pay-day.
I don't think you could blame any player for wanting to leave Everton at the moment though, as a professional you wouldn't want to spend your career at a club without any winners medals.
Chelsea have a midfield with a few players the wrong side of thirty, and they will be spending this summer. Didn't Fellaini's old man try to start this ball rolling a couple of seasons back ? I think he is also his agent, so that would mean a pay-day.
I don't think you could blame any player for wanting to leave Everton at the moment though, as a professional you wouldn't want to spend your career at a club without any winners medals.
I don't think you could blame any player for wanting to leave Everton at the moment though
this is unduly negative isn't it Kevin? We are playing well, a well supported and traditional club etc. I now live in Stoke, there is more a buzz around us in Liverpool than there is of Stoke here, we are a big club. We only have a few players (Fellaini, Baines, maybe Jelavic and Heitinga) who can realistically hope to play for a club, in a decent league who can win medals.
this is unduly negative isn't it Kevin? We are playing well, a well supported and traditional club etc. I now live in Stoke, there is more a buzz around us in Liverpool than there is of Stoke here, we are a big club. We only have a few players (Fellaini, Baines, maybe Jelavic and Heitinga) who can realistically hope to play for a club, in a decent league who can win medals.
I think its safe to say we will have to sell to buy, Kenwright
and the rest of the board will put nothing in to the kitty..
I would sell Jags and Rodwell, i think there might a few takers for Jags at £6 to £7mill. But dont think there would
be any for Rodders unless it was at a knock down price, because of his injuries..
Three days before the window shuts there will be a £25mill bid for Felli and no time to get anyone in that would improve us...
and the rest of the board will put nothing in to the kitty..
I would sell Jags and Rodwell, i think there might a few takers for Jags at £6 to £7mill. But dont think there would
be any for Rodders unless it was at a knock down price, because of his injuries..
Three days before the window shuts there will be a £25mill bid for Felli and no time to get anyone in that would improve us...
Think we should bring in 2 wingers (pienaar/jarvis/donovan?) and a forward to help out jelavic (vossen/barrios/dost?)
Players maybe sold would be rodwell, anichebe and anyone who could save on wages who aren't realistically going to get into the team regularly.
I personally would try my very best to hold on to the majority of the team which I believe is good enough to compete for european places.
What we have seen lately is what the team can do and apart from the poor wembley showing there is a lot to be positive about.
Players maybe sold would be rodwell, anichebe and anyone who could save on wages who aren't realistically going to get into the team regularly.
I personally would try my very best to hold on to the majority of the team which I believe is good enough to compete for european places.
What we have seen lately is what the team can do and apart from the poor wembley showing there is a lot to be positive about.
Baines shouldn't be sold, we need to add more players with attacking intent rather than sell one to add another. Felli is one of our best and works well with Gibson so keep them too.
We should sell Jags as defence is the one area i would say we have adequate cover. Alright with baines out we aren't the same going forward down the left but distin has shown he can play there and cap'n phil can fill in too.
I'd say get shut of Rodwell too given i just don't see where he fits in, although as people have said i don't think the season he's had is really going to push up his value.
We should sell Jags as defence is the one area i would say we have adequate cover. Alright with baines out we aren't the same going forward down the left but distin has shown he can play there and cap'n phil can fill in too.
I'd say get shut of Rodwell too given i just don't see where he fits in, although as people have said i don't think the season he's had is really going to push up his value.
I think that we would all want to hold on to the majority of the team, but how possibly would you afford to buy in three of the individuals mentioned for the price of Anichebe (2m) (based on the Vaughan fee) and Rodwell (5m) (i think a team would go for him at that price, anything more is unlikely simply because of his injury and from record over the last 18 months). Pienaar would cost 6m on his own?
I cant believe some fans quite happily trot out who we should sell, if we hope to ever win a trophy you dont sell your best players. Also Jags name seems to crop up on many posters lists of who to sell.
Distin as good as he has been is 34 with at best 1 more season at the top flight left. So the idea that we sell jags who is about 6/7 years younger than Distin seems madness.
I dont want anyone sold and I dont think fans should be giving the nod to the club that supporters are OK selling our best player each year. Wimbledon did this for a number of years but adopting such a policy does 2 things. First you cant attract any decent players because they know the whole ambition of the club is just to survive. Secondly you arent able to produce the quality of players other clubs want and relegation is then only a matter of time.
Distin as good as he has been is 34 with at best 1 more season at the top flight left. So the idea that we sell jags who is about 6/7 years younger than Distin seems madness.
I dont want anyone sold and I dont think fans should be giving the nod to the club that supporters are OK selling our best player each year. Wimbledon did this for a number of years but adopting such a policy does 2 things. First you cant attract any decent players because they know the whole ambition of the club is just to survive. Secondly you arent able to produce the quality of players other clubs want and relegation is then only a matter of time.
Brian, i understand your point but the reality is that we don't have an alternative.
1) We still have a scarcity of options on the right flank,
2) Drenthe, Pienaar and Straq are not our players
3) a core of ageing players (Ossie, Neville, Distin, Cahill, Hibbert) who don't have any worth
This club will reach a crossroads in a few years. Investment will not be forthcoming for a while given economic conditions. I agree that it is not a long term option to be a 'selling club, but in the short term it is the financial reality surely.
1) We still have a scarcity of options on the right flank,
2) Drenthe, Pienaar and Straq are not our players
3) a core of ageing players (Ossie, Neville, Distin, Cahill, Hibbert) who don't have any worth
This club will reach a crossroads in a few years. Investment will not be forthcoming for a while given economic conditions. I agree that it is not a long term option to be a 'selling club, but in the short term it is the financial reality surely.
Re. Rodwell, as Mark pointed out, we are not going to be selling him this year. There will not be suitors given his current injury situation, and he has not played enough to warrant a good fee. Any talk of 20million for him belongs in dream land.
Likewise with Jags, who would pay 15million for him!? He is 29, and looked poor this season. If we were offered 10 million, it would be fantastic. I personally would love to see Spurs come in for him, and we work out a deal for Pienarr plus money, as Spurs need a good centre back.
I can't understand why people are now more willing for Baines to go. For me it is reactionary; he has missed a couple of games in which we have done well in, and now seems more fallible than before. He has been, yet again, one of our consistently best players, even during the bad times (can't be said of Fellaini), and offers an invaluable set piece and attacking threat.
Re. Fellaini. He has been amazing of late, but does not justify a 32million fee, which will never happen. Fabregas went for only a little more than, and Fellaini, for all his ability, is not in his league. I would snap a buyers arms off for 25million, which could give us three really useful players, which would ultimately improve the team.
For this season, Yobo and Macfadden have to go, which would clear up some wages (which are very low at the moment given the summer activity). Mucha will be going, although another will come in to replace him. If we can, I would offload Cahill, although hopefully he will have a better season next year if he remains, after a good summer's rest. I would let Anichebe go if we could fund a replacement, but if not the squad needs him. Denis has great spirit, but is not talented enough nor worth a transfer fee in my mind.
My perfect scenario, would be for Jags to leave for around 9m-10m or a swap deal for Pienarr plus cash. Yobo, Mucha, Cahill and Macfadden to go with him(maybe raise 1million for Yobo, and 1-2 for Cahill). Pienarr must come back, and we could really do with a speedy but creative right sided midfielder. Would love to see Hoilett come in, as a versatile attacking player who play wing, attacking mid or up front.
Likewise with Jags, who would pay 15million for him!? He is 29, and looked poor this season. If we were offered 10 million, it would be fantastic. I personally would love to see Spurs come in for him, and we work out a deal for Pienarr plus money, as Spurs need a good centre back.
I can't understand why people are now more willing for Baines to go. For me it is reactionary; he has missed a couple of games in which we have done well in, and now seems more fallible than before. He has been, yet again, one of our consistently best players, even during the bad times (can't be said of Fellaini), and offers an invaluable set piece and attacking threat.
Re. Fellaini. He has been amazing of late, but does not justify a 32million fee, which will never happen. Fabregas went for only a little more than, and Fellaini, for all his ability, is not in his league. I would snap a buyers arms off for 25million, which could give us three really useful players, which would ultimately improve the team.
For this season, Yobo and Macfadden have to go, which would clear up some wages (which are very low at the moment given the summer activity). Mucha will be going, although another will come in to replace him. If we can, I would offload Cahill, although hopefully he will have a better season next year if he remains, after a good summer's rest. I would let Anichebe go if we could fund a replacement, but if not the squad needs him. Denis has great spirit, but is not talented enough nor worth a transfer fee in my mind.
My perfect scenario, would be for Jags to leave for around 9m-10m or a swap deal for Pienarr plus cash. Yobo, Mucha, Cahill and Macfadden to go with him(maybe raise 1million for Yobo, and 1-2 for Cahill). Pienarr must come back, and we could really do with a speedy but creative right sided midfielder. Would love to see Hoilett come in, as a versatile attacking player who play wing, attacking mid or up front.
Exactly Brian. I don't agree with the selling Jags rationale. Jags has had a poor season.. but in my opinion is that is the Jags/Distin partnership that is not working more than one player being poor.
I feel Distin is poor with Jags.. he is so one footed it is ridiculous and he is close to the end of his career.
Jags Johnny partnership looks good to me and is where I would start next year with. Duffy to get more game time too.
I also feel Rodders needs a proper run of games in the right position to improve - but this doesn't look to be happening with us. I get the feeling in the right team with the right coach and the right amount of luck around his injuries we might regret his departure.
Seeling Fella is the craziest thing I have heard. He IS the best Defensive midfielder in the prem... irreplaceable. We ned a Timmy replacement.. would love it to be Barkley but don't see it yet with Moyes and Baxter seems in no ones plans.
Who should we sell? I don't know if we can sell anyone rom the starting 11. Anyone outside won't make much difference.
This articel does show to me again how little loyalty we have for players.. we moan when a player wants to move to a "bigger" club when he is doing well but are all to easy to throw away players we have groomed and developed when they are not the finished article or the next Rooney.
I feel Distin is poor with Jags.. he is so one footed it is ridiculous and he is close to the end of his career.
Jags Johnny partnership looks good to me and is where I would start next year with. Duffy to get more game time too.
I also feel Rodders needs a proper run of games in the right position to improve - but this doesn't look to be happening with us. I get the feeling in the right team with the right coach and the right amount of luck around his injuries we might regret his departure.
Seeling Fella is the craziest thing I have heard. He IS the best Defensive midfielder in the prem... irreplaceable. We ned a Timmy replacement.. would love it to be Barkley but don't see it yet with Moyes and Baxter seems in no ones plans.
Who should we sell? I don't know if we can sell anyone rom the starting 11. Anyone outside won't make much difference.
This articel does show to me again how little loyalty we have for players.. we moan when a player wants to move to a "bigger" club when he is doing well but are all to easy to throw away players we have groomed and developed when they are not the finished article or the next Rooney.
Mark
I disagree we do have a choice, if we cant afford to buy any new players other than Pienaar then dont,
Drenthe has no future at the club, Straq will run after the ball all day, but so will my dog and I wouldnt reccomend that we sign him for Everton. I dont think McFadden will be offered a contract, and either Mucha or Hanneman will be released. So their wages will make up most of Pienaars salary.
Yes it may leave us a bit short on numbers but if the alternative is sell one of our better players, to attract 3 journeyman players then no thanks. I think now we have a striker who knows where the net is, I dont believe we are that far away from making another challenge for the top 4 place.
Some mention signing Dempsey from Fulham, a very good player but he is 29. I would like him if we dont have to sell to get him. But using your argument that Neville.Ossie,Hibbert and Distin have no worth the same can be said about Dempsey.
I disagree we do have a choice, if we cant afford to buy any new players other than Pienaar then dont,
Drenthe has no future at the club, Straq will run after the ball all day, but so will my dog and I wouldnt reccomend that we sign him for Everton. I dont think McFadden will be offered a contract, and either Mucha or Hanneman will be released. So their wages will make up most of Pienaars salary.
Yes it may leave us a bit short on numbers but if the alternative is sell one of our better players, to attract 3 journeyman players then no thanks. I think now we have a striker who knows where the net is, I dont believe we are that far away from making another challenge for the top 4 place.
Some mention signing Dempsey from Fulham, a very good player but he is 29. I would like him if we dont have to sell to get him. But using your argument that Neville.Ossie,Hibbert and Distin have no worth the same can be said about Dempsey.
Same every year: another striker and a right-sided winger.
I'd choose to keep just one from Straqua, Anichebe and Velios, and bring in a new striker probably for at least £6 million. That would mean a net spend on strikers of about £4m in fees, and wages unchanged as the one in would need to be as costly as the two out combined.
Obviously Pienaar is a must, and I guess rejuvenate the defence with a young CB or RB. Between those two, up to £10 million.
So, about £14 million in total even without a winger. Yobo will probably net us £2m.
So another £12 m needed? Maybe a defender: Jags would maybe get us £8m, Heit, £10m, but Baines (please no), £20 million. If we manage to keep Moyes, and he may like the look of his current team, then it ain't gonna be easy - again.
I'd choose to keep just one from Straqua, Anichebe and Velios, and bring in a new striker probably for at least £6 million. That would mean a net spend on strikers of about £4m in fees, and wages unchanged as the one in would need to be as costly as the two out combined.
Obviously Pienaar is a must, and I guess rejuvenate the defence with a young CB or RB. Between those two, up to £10 million.
So, about £14 million in total even without a winger. Yobo will probably net us £2m.
So another £12 m needed? Maybe a defender: Jags would maybe get us £8m, Heit, £10m, but Baines (please no), £20 million. If we manage to keep Moyes, and he may like the look of his current team, then it ain't gonna be easy - again.
To actually see someone wanting to sell of Fellaini baffles me. He is fantastic and will only get better.
Tough call though to say who we should sell. Jagielka for me would be the one.
Keep hold of Jelavic and Fellaini is for me the main thing though.
Baines, although fantastic is after all a left-back.For a ridiculous sum of money i would sell.
Tough call though to say who we should sell. Jagielka for me would be the one.
Keep hold of Jelavic and Fellaini is for me the main thing though.
Baines, although fantastic is after all a left-back.For a ridiculous sum of money i would sell.
Brian
Distin as good as he has been is 34 with at best 1 more season at the top flight left. So the idea that we sell jags who is about 6/7 years younger than Distin seems madness.
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It's economics, not madness. Distin would be a free (age reason), Jags would be £8 million. Probably fund a young defender and Pienaar, once Drenthe is off the wage bill. A Distin sale would only fund a loan CB - if that.
Distin as good as he has been is 34 with at best 1 more season at the top flight left. So the idea that we sell jags who is about 6/7 years younger than Distin seems madness.
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It's economics, not madness. Distin would be a free (age reason), Jags would be £8 million. Probably fund a young defender and Pienaar, once Drenthe is off the wage bill. A Distin sale would only fund a loan CB - if that.
It is not a question of loyalty David; using that argument, we'd never sell anyone unless they wanted to go. It is a question of necessity; without selling, how are we going to raise funds to bring in Pienarr, or anyone else? I love Fellaini, but I would go as far as to say, Pienarr is just as important to us as Fellaini, if not more important. Without him, all of the creative burden falls onto Osman, who is not as good as Pienarr and shunted around in different positions. Fellaini has been a world beater the last few months, but would any of you claim he was the best defensive mid in the prem in the first half of the season?
It staggers me,Paul,that with your absolute mountain of knowledge,Ken Bates,chairman of your hometown club,Leeds Unt. hasn`t already approached you to become his third manager of the season!
For certain,he`s one of 80 odd chairman who`d love to `be stuck` with David Moyes`as you so eloquently put it.
And half the clubs in the Prem would be delighted to know that you`d also wish to get rid of two of our players who have graced the England team during the CURRENT season,for gawd`s sake!
All this `selling to buy` nonsense is just that.Nonsense.
OK,the club may not have money to burn but selling `the crown jewels` to take a punt on the many inferior players mentioned on here is sheer bloody suicide and would earn BK and Moyes every bit of the scorn that would be heaped upon them.
The best news of th past week was that Moyes will not be leaving for Leeds-or anywhere else- in the near future so with our team doing as well as any in the land his will be the responsibility to IMPROVE-not diminish- further the Everton squad during the coming break.
So,`stuck` as we are with Davey and our two England players,you sir, are free to go back to play on your `Football Manager`programme.
`Stuck with Moyes`,how dare you!
For certain,he`s one of 80 odd chairman who`d love to `be stuck` with David Moyes`as you so eloquently put it.
And half the clubs in the Prem would be delighted to know that you`d also wish to get rid of two of our players who have graced the England team during the CURRENT season,for gawd`s sake!
All this `selling to buy` nonsense is just that.Nonsense.
OK,the club may not have money to burn but selling `the crown jewels` to take a punt on the many inferior players mentioned on here is sheer bloody suicide and would earn BK and Moyes every bit of the scorn that would be heaped upon them.
The best news of th past week was that Moyes will not be leaving for Leeds-or anywhere else- in the near future so with our team doing as well as any in the land his will be the responsibility to IMPROVE-not diminish- further the Everton squad during the coming break.
So,`stuck` as we are with Davey and our two England players,you sir, are free to go back to play on your `Football Manager`programme.
`Stuck with Moyes`,how dare you!
Roberto
You say that its economics to sell Jags.
Well taking your argument a stage further lets sell Jags, Heitinga,Fellaini and Baines. Then we pay off all our debt and buy Finch Farm.
We might get relegated in the meantime but just on an economic argument then it makes us debt free.
You say that its economics to sell Jags.
Well taking your argument a stage further lets sell Jags, Heitinga,Fellaini and Baines. Then we pay off all our debt and buy Finch Farm.
We might get relegated in the meantime but just on an economic argument then it makes us debt free.
Jelavic, Fellaini, Baines and Pienaar are not replaceable with our budget so they must stay.
Anyone else is sellable for me. Couldn't care a less if jags or heitinga are sold. Good defenders can be picked up cheap and if you can sell them at a high price it would be stupid not too.
Anyone else is sellable for me. Couldn't care a less if jags or heitinga are sold. Good defenders can be picked up cheap and if you can sell them at a high price it would be stupid not too.
Getting Pienaar is the most crucial thing!
Keep Jelly, Baines and Fella. Then sell the best sidewards passer in the league (Rodwell) for an inflated price that young English players go for these days and use the money to buy under-rated quality like Albrighton, Hoilett and maybe Kightly.
Keep Jelly, Baines and Fella. Then sell the best sidewards passer in the league (Rodwell) for an inflated price that young English players go for these days and use the money to buy under-rated quality like Albrighton, Hoilett and maybe Kightly.
I wonder what is the ponit of the Grantchester family holding 8% of Everton's shares? They are (again) in the Sunday Times rich list having a wealth of £1200m. After The Wimbledon game they said that we would never be allowed to be in that position again. But, as far as I can see, they have invested nothing in the club. Am I missing something here?
If we aim to inprove the team we have to sell, how else do we get money.. Bill and your luvy mates just do one..
We all have are opinion of who should go and who should come in. But you can bet some one will be sold
to pay the banks...
We all have are opinion of who should go and who should come in. But you can bet some one will be sold
to pay the banks...
We need another striker,2 winger,a centre mid playmaker and possibly a right back.
Like it or not to do this we need to sell,theres the obvious shite like Anichebe but we're not going to raise any money from out worst players.
I dont agree with people who say we should keep hold of players like Neville and Cahill but they should be less important to the team.We simply can not and should not big wages for an "impact sub".Get rid.
Baines and Jelavic are the only two we should resist all bids for,I'd love us to be able to keep hold of Fellaini but really cant see it happening but he would command a large fee.
As long as the money we receive is used wisely it should benefit the team.Theres going to be a lot of good players relegated this year or good players not wanted by their clubs and we should look to take advantige of that.
Like it or not to do this we need to sell,theres the obvious shite like Anichebe but we're not going to raise any money from out worst players.
I dont agree with people who say we should keep hold of players like Neville and Cahill but they should be less important to the team.We simply can not and should not big wages for an "impact sub".Get rid.
Baines and Jelavic are the only two we should resist all bids for,I'd love us to be able to keep hold of Fellaini but really cant see it happening but he would command a large fee.
As long as the money we receive is used wisely it should benefit the team.Theres going to be a lot of good players relegated this year or good players not wanted by their clubs and we should look to take advantige of that.
Complete and utter rubbish Mark Pierpoint: (2) Fella (3) Leighton. NO Evertonian wanting to make strides forward would even dream of selling one of these two, around whom, with a couple of others, we now need to build a team.
Why on earth sell them to supposedly build a new team - yeah right, let's get rid of Fella and Baines and build a team on Moses, Jesus Christ, so to speak - when these are the key players we need to keep and build around. Completely bizzare: sell Jags, Fella, LB (the three you name) and get in Moses and Nuts (the two you name). Fuck me, we would be a much better team then, wouldn't we, stone the crows, how come I couldn't see that. Silly me.
So, Mr Pierpoint, let's get in your shoes and start selling. We are, after all, a selling team, aren't we, and it's clearly imperative to sell our best assets to get Holy Moses.
And, by the way, Mr Pierpoint, next post from you - 'We should cash in on Rodwell?'. So why wasn't he listed in your first three.
Utter bollocks. Let's go down the Yellow Brick Peierpoint Road and see where we end up.
Why on earth sell them to supposedly build a new team - yeah right, let's get rid of Fella and Baines and build a team on Moses, Jesus Christ, so to speak - when these are the key players we need to keep and build around. Completely bizzare: sell Jags, Fella, LB (the three you name) and get in Moses and Nuts (the two you name). Fuck me, we would be a much better team then, wouldn't we, stone the crows, how come I couldn't see that. Silly me.
So, Mr Pierpoint, let's get in your shoes and start selling. We are, after all, a selling team, aren't we, and it's clearly imperative to sell our best assets to get Holy Moses.
And, by the way, Mr Pierpoint, next post from you - 'We should cash in on Rodwell?'. So why wasn't he listed in your first three.
Utter bollocks. Let's go down the Yellow Brick Peierpoint Road and see where we end up.
Ray
Totally agree, I can only assume they kept hold of some of their shares in memory of their father and grandfather.
I am sure Sir John would be amazed of how they have let his club get into such a financial position without offering any help.
Totally agree, I can only assume they kept hold of some of their shares in memory of their father and grandfather.
I am sure Sir John would be amazed of how they have let his club get into such a financial position without offering any help.
We have 4 top class players, Heitinga, Baines, Fellaini and Jelavic. They cannot be sold under any cicumstances. I wouldn't sell Jags but can understand why some would.
I'd sell Anichebe, but we wouldn't get much. Freeing our wage structure of Straq, Mc Fadden and Drenthe will help. The only person I'd sell would be Coleman, because he is not a winger and Moyes won't give him a try at full back. You never know, we could possibly get 5 mil for him.
All that means we are looking at free signings or bargains. We desperately need width and pace. If we can scramble 3 mil for Pienaar that would be great. I'd also give in to Hoillett's (assumed) excessive wage demands to try and tot him to us instead of our competitors. Rodellega would add pace to us. Clyne at right back could be a hood investment as well.
I haven't considered anyone (besides Pienaar) who costs anything as there is no point.
I'd sell Anichebe, but we wouldn't get much. Freeing our wage structure of Straq, Mc Fadden and Drenthe will help. The only person I'd sell would be Coleman, because he is not a winger and Moyes won't give him a try at full back. You never know, we could possibly get 5 mil for him.
All that means we are looking at free signings or bargains. We desperately need width and pace. If we can scramble 3 mil for Pienaar that would be great. I'd also give in to Hoillett's (assumed) excessive wage demands to try and tot him to us instead of our competitors. Rodellega would add pace to us. Clyne at right back could be a hood investment as well.
I haven't considered anyone (besides Pienaar) who costs anything as there is no point.
Yes,we should sell our stars to sign all these no marks from crap teams -makes perfect sense,doesn`t it?
Why,in hell,do you think the teams they play in are crap? Oh, I see,it`s because they are badly managed,isn`t it?
Why,in hell,do you think the teams they play in are crap? Oh, I see,it`s because they are badly managed,isn`t it?
I think our fans have turned into accountants. We have more fans saying who we should sell to improve our financial position, rather than worrying about our football position.
Yes I know we have to work to our budjet, so keep all the regular first teamers so we can compete on the field where it matters most. I am sure Moyes will not sell anybody in the summer unless someone asks to go. Which happened with Arteta and Lescott.
Yes I know we have to work to our budjet, so keep all the regular first teamers so we can compete on the field where it matters most. I am sure Moyes will not sell anybody in the summer unless someone asks to go. Which happened with Arteta and Lescott.
Sell Baines. No other team in the premiership relies on a full back as an attacker much as we do. Are Utd built around Evra? Chelsea around Cole? But only sell if the money can also fund the acquisition of two effective wingers
Richard please tell me how things in your mind would pan out for Everton if we keep everyone together and refuse to sell.
In a few years half the players would be retired or their ability has dropped due to age,they couldn't be replaced because everyone knows we have no money and we've refused to sell.All the while the club continues to lose millions each year as we slip into administration.
Yes Richard I like your plan better.
In a few years half the players would be retired or their ability has dropped due to age,they couldn't be replaced because everyone knows we have no money and we've refused to sell.All the while the club continues to lose millions each year as we slip into administration.
Yes Richard I like your plan better.
Danny, why does it manner if we rely on a full back for attacking? In the same way other people rely on other players for attacking (i.e City: Silva, Chelski: Mata). For info purposes, Alves does a pretty awesome job at Barca, and no one sets up more for Messi than him.
him* even.
Sell no one, sign Pienaar. European football next year.
Sign Jim Knightley. He sets up Messi's goals
Jim Knightley 599
Freudian slip!! Ahh..... if only eh!!
Freudian slip!! Ahh..... if only eh!!
Looks like buying Pienaar maybe a bit easier... Just heard on BBC news that England have approached Woy and not Redknapp.
Shit, that's the Spurs job is out the window for Moyes then. Obviously he was the only name on their list.
He sets up Messi's goals
He sets up Messi's goals
Oh Jimmy Knightley
He sets up Messi's goals
He sets up Messi's goals
Oh Jimmy Knightley
He sets up Messi's goals
I don't care who we sell or how many, the main thing is to keep the banks and other creditors at bay for the next six months to the next transfer window. As long as Bill Kenwright remains as Chairman, nothing else matters and that should be the basis of our detailed 5 year financial strategy.
Paul Ferry, a few errors. You have read my comments wrong. First one was my fault I suppose.
1) To clarify, I am not advocating selling Fellaini, Baines and Jagielka. I name them as the three who could fund a move for Pienaar and the right sided replacement. I suggest advantages for each only. My belief is that Jagielka is expendable, Baines at a push as he is a left back.
2) I question the logic of selling Rodwell in my second post, hence the question mark! As I suggest, I don't think it is feasible.
The last player I would want to get rid of is Felli, but none of us know what caveats were placed in that new contract.
1) To clarify, I am not advocating selling Fellaini, Baines and Jagielka. I name them as the three who could fund a move for Pienaar and the right sided replacement. I suggest advantages for each only. My belief is that Jagielka is expendable, Baines at a push as he is a left back.
2) I question the logic of selling Rodwell in my second post, hence the question mark! As I suggest, I don't think it is feasible.
The last player I would want to get rid of is Felli, but none of us know what caveats were placed in that new contract.
As much as i rate Clint Dempsey, he's not the answer, in fact he's another Tim Cahill shaped problem.
I love Tim Cahill but the fact is he has forced us to play with one up front and one/two defensive midfielders for the best part of a decade, now in my book you have to be an effin superstar to impose that on a club and neither Tim or Clint are that.
While I'm being pragmatic, Leighton Baines is realistically our most saleable asset but I don't agree that he shouldn't be sold at any cost because while he may be one of our best players, he is only a full back and he doesn't win games on his own. Don't get me wrong, I don't want to sell him but £15 mil would buy us a decent partner for Jelavic, an international winger or centre midfielder.
This leads me on to my last point that I thing we need another centre midfielder first and foremost because I personally believe we DO have a superstar (in the making) in our team and I've seen the future in the last month. Fellaini needs to play up to with Jelavic because he is someone who the ball just sticks to wherever you pass it at/to him, and he's in the oposition's box when it happens, 7 times out of 10 he'll get it to Jelavic who only needs one touch as we've established elsewhere.. This is the premise we need to build our team around in my opinion.
I love Tim Cahill but the fact is he has forced us to play with one up front and one/two defensive midfielders for the best part of a decade, now in my book you have to be an effin superstar to impose that on a club and neither Tim or Clint are that.
While I'm being pragmatic, Leighton Baines is realistically our most saleable asset but I don't agree that he shouldn't be sold at any cost because while he may be one of our best players, he is only a full back and he doesn't win games on his own. Don't get me wrong, I don't want to sell him but £15 mil would buy us a decent partner for Jelavic, an international winger or centre midfielder.
This leads me on to my last point that I thing we need another centre midfielder first and foremost because I personally believe we DO have a superstar (in the making) in our team and I've seen the future in the last month. Fellaini needs to play up to with Jelavic because he is someone who the ball just sticks to wherever you pass it at/to him, and he's in the oposition's box when it happens, 7 times out of 10 he'll get it to Jelavic who only needs one touch as we've established elsewhere.. This is the premise we need to build our team around in my opinion.
Sell Bill Kenwright's house and possessions and buy Pienaar from the proceeds. Easy.
The sky sports pundits recommended pushing Felliani forward into the Tim Cahill role has been the difference in how he has excelled the last few games. I was thinking that having Gibson there to tidy up in midfield has made this possible. Felliani has been pushed forward before. I think that managers are going to see this and will recognise that Felliani is a quality utility player when surrounded by better players than Everton have had over the years. This could push up his value.
Drew O'Neill, I would agree with you on your point about Baines. Since we got the extra quality in during January, we aren't as reliant on Baines to be our sole creative outlet. I don't think that selling him would be the end of the world. Of course I would prefer to keep him but if it meant bringing in players that would increase the level of quality within the squad then I'm all for it.
I honestly can't see Moyes handing Barkley or Gueye or Vellios thirty plus games each next season. I can't even see Victor getting game time in more than twenty games next season. Moyes will see the need to bring senior players in. This in my book will mean selling at lleast one big name player.
I honestly can't see Moyes handing Barkley or Gueye or Vellios thirty plus games each next season. I can't even see Victor getting game time in more than twenty games next season. Moyes will see the need to bring senior players in. This in my book will mean selling at lleast one big name player.
Buy piennar Moses given fletcher and dempsey.
We should not sell anyone we should buy Pienaar
Others will just go (Drenthe, Straq Mucha)
To free up the wage bill but it will be absolute MADNESS to sell The big Fella.
Moyes should demand £15M at least to strengthen if not he should grow some balls and tell BK he is off
I would have an awful lot more expect for him if he did.
Others will just go (Drenthe, Straq Mucha)
To free up the wage bill but it will be absolute MADNESS to sell The big Fella.
Moyes should demand £15M at least to strengthen if not he should grow some balls and tell BK he is off
I would have an awful lot more expect for him if he did.
A lot of chatter about who we should / shouldn't sell, but not enough about who we could and should buy ? The areas that I see need strengthening are :
1. Right Wing : Seamus seems to be a one trick pony and we need a new dimension there (sort of like Landon when he was around). This would free up Pienaar / Gueye to purely focus on the left side where we are always a threat with Baines as the attacking left back.
The korean right wing from Bolton (Lee Chung-Yong) is pretty sharp. He was out this year after breaking a leg, and might be had on the cheap with Bolton's imminent relegation. He has a very high work rate (we know Moyes likes that) and could help lift our profile in Soccer crazy Korea. Another far fetched option could be Dirk Kuyt, who is out of favour at Liverpool (however his wages might prove to be a barrier). While Dirk is 30, he should be looked at as a 2 year investment to take the team to the next level.
2. Left Back : A pragmatic backup to Baines is required. We should not keep on relying on our ageing warriors Neville and Distin. Injuries here should be used as opportunities to groom younger talent. Looking around, there is not much such talent on the cheap. Martin Olsson from Blackburn looks to fits the bill here ( young , sharp and can slot in straight away) and might be available on the cheap with Blackburn's potential relegation
3. Center Back : We do have Shane Duffy, but he may not be ready yet; Moyes is extremely conservative with his center back selection usually.
4. Right Back : While this position is Hibbert's own, I strongly feel that we need more competition for this spot if we are to genuinely improve. In that sense an ideal buy for us would be a utility who can play both right and center back. The kind of players I'm talking about are Kyle Walker, Chris Smalling or Micah Richards - but all of these players are unlikely.
I hope we make 2-3 such signings early for the season (along with Pienaar). Next year will be even more of a dogfight than this year and we need to be ready in all dimensions.
1. Right Wing : Seamus seems to be a one trick pony and we need a new dimension there (sort of like Landon when he was around). This would free up Pienaar / Gueye to purely focus on the left side where we are always a threat with Baines as the attacking left back.
The korean right wing from Bolton (Lee Chung-Yong) is pretty sharp. He was out this year after breaking a leg, and might be had on the cheap with Bolton's imminent relegation. He has a very high work rate (we know Moyes likes that) and could help lift our profile in Soccer crazy Korea. Another far fetched option could be Dirk Kuyt, who is out of favour at Liverpool (however his wages might prove to be a barrier). While Dirk is 30, he should be looked at as a 2 year investment to take the team to the next level.
2. Left Back : A pragmatic backup to Baines is required. We should not keep on relying on our ageing warriors Neville and Distin. Injuries here should be used as opportunities to groom younger talent. Looking around, there is not much such talent on the cheap. Martin Olsson from Blackburn looks to fits the bill here ( young , sharp and can slot in straight away) and might be available on the cheap with Blackburn's potential relegation
3. Center Back : We do have Shane Duffy, but he may not be ready yet; Moyes is extremely conservative with his center back selection usually.
4. Right Back : While this position is Hibbert's own, I strongly feel that we need more competition for this spot if we are to genuinely improve. In that sense an ideal buy for us would be a utility who can play both right and center back. The kind of players I'm talking about are Kyle Walker, Chris Smalling or Micah Richards - but all of these players are unlikely.
I hope we make 2-3 such signings early for the season (along with Pienaar). Next year will be even more of a dogfight than this year and we need to be ready in all dimensions.
Fair enough Mark. It's clearer now. Would sell Jags but not Fella or LB
I wonder what is the ponit of the Grantchester family holding 8% of Everton's shares? They are (again) in the Sunday Times rich list having a wealth of £1200m. After The Wimbledon game they said that we would never be allowed to be in that position again. But, as far as I can see, they have invested nothing in the club. Am I missing something here?
I would be available on a free and I'd take £15,000 a week. Would guarantee a better cross than Neville :D
Jamie Barlow (601) got it right. If all we can scrape together is the money for Piennar, fine with me.
I like this team as it is. Yeah, be nice to have some cash for a right flanker. Likely we won't.
Don't sell any of our key players. Don't sell any of them if the only purpose is to have money to purchase lesser ones.
I like this team as it is. Yeah, be nice to have some cash for a right flanker. Likely we won't.
Don't sell any of our key players. Don't sell any of them if the only purpose is to have money to purchase lesser ones.
As an old arse, I remember the late 80s when we replaced Gary Stevens with Kevin MacDonald, Trevor Steven with Pat Nevin, Peter Reid with Ian McCall, Graeme Sharp with Mike Newell...
Sell to buy sounds great but ? when it's your best you sell and replace with substandard ? the only way is down
Sell to buy sounds great but ? when it's your best you sell and replace with substandard ? the only way is down
Getting Pienaar and keeping what we have would be okay. A straight swap, Jags for the underrated and sparingly used Aaron Lennon would be perfect.
Sam Hoare ? Kenwright already sold his house (back to the bank) re-mortgaged it. To buy his shares in the club.
So he said anyway.
So he said anyway.
Brian
582
Take it to any degree you want. But some of us what Pienaar. You may think we can buy him by collecting toffees off the bonnett girl. Others reckon we need dosh.
Some such as the manager have to make big decisions. You don't recognise that, tough! What a daft post.
582
Take it to any degree you want. But some of us what Pienaar. You may think we can buy him by collecting toffees off the bonnett girl. Others reckon we need dosh.
Some such as the manager have to make big decisions. You don't recognise that, tough! What a daft post.
But some of us want Pienaar.... It's too early for spelling right.
David Moyes needs to extend his contract for another 5 years, the board need to back him with some funds. He has to have a clear-out with those players who aren't good enough and has to start playing to win every game as opposed to the 40 points survival and the utter fucking dire dross that was served up until January.
The football against Fulham was like watching another team play. Three losses to the Shite and the capitulation at Wembley is still unacceptable and down to the manager who bottled it big time ? and not for the first time either.
So either he has learned from this and we can move on or this Indian Summer we are experiencing will be sadly short-lived as dour Davey reverts back to the tried and trusted negative shit we are all over.
The football against Fulham was like watching another team play. Three losses to the Shite and the capitulation at Wembley is still unacceptable and down to the manager who bottled it big time ? and not for the first time either.
So either he has learned from this and we can move on or this Indian Summer we are experiencing will be sadly short-lived as dour Davey reverts back to the tried and trusted negative shit we are all over.
Alot of unrealistic desires and predictions on here. Ultimately it will depend more on who wants our players and wether or not they want to leave. Jags for example may no longer see himself as first choice and could potentially raise 10 m.
I expect a very quiet summer with pienaar coming back for 3-4m and very little else (unless someone bids well for rodwell) which I think suits us ok as we have a good team with the likes of Barkley, Duffy, gueye and maybe vellios to push on and add to the mix.
I expect a very quiet summer with pienaar coming back for 3-4m and very little else (unless someone bids well for rodwell) which I think suits us ok as we have a good team with the likes of Barkley, Duffy, gueye and maybe vellios to push on and add to the mix.
I 'believe' we've already agreed terms with a certain American midfielder.......no not Donavan.
Heard a whisper Clint Dempsey is on his way....don't shoot the messenger!
Heard a whisper Clint Dempsey is on his way....don't shoot the messenger!
The only thing that needs to be sold is the club, by Kenwright to someone who can get us out of the predicament he has put us in.
Brian #650, I think Dempsey will happen also! Twitter had a lot of rumours about it and a few people close to the EFC happenings believe this will go through!
I would like to see Anichebe gone for £4-6 million! With his age and being a Nigerian international, that would be realistic, a team coming up would be willing to pay £4 mill at least. We got £2 mill for an injured Vaughan from a team coming up so we could play on their desperation! That cash would pay for Pienaar anyway!
I would like to see Anichebe gone for £4-6 million! With his age and being a Nigerian international, that would be realistic, a team coming up would be willing to pay £4 mill at least. We got £2 mill for an injured Vaughan from a team coming up so we could play on their desperation! That cash would pay for Pienaar anyway!
It?s disappointing to read the negativity about Tim Cahill and Phil Neville on this site.
Even when Tim is off form, he never hides, but puts himself around and makes life difficult for the opposition. He is one of very few Everton players to consistently compete effectively in derby matches over the last decade.
Phil?s captaincy is reminiscent of Mike Brierley who captained the England cricket team some years ago ? not the greatest of players himself, but experienced at the highest level and an inspiration to others.
Getting rid of either of them would significantly weaken our team spirit which is the envy of the rest of the league. Fortunately, David Moyes understands this, so while neither player is an automatic choice in the team, they are both still vital squad members, worth much more than any small fee we would get for them.
Even when Tim is off form, he never hides, but puts himself around and makes life difficult for the opposition. He is one of very few Everton players to consistently compete effectively in derby matches over the last decade.
Phil?s captaincy is reminiscent of Mike Brierley who captained the England cricket team some years ago ? not the greatest of players himself, but experienced at the highest level and an inspiration to others.
Getting rid of either of them would significantly weaken our team spirit which is the envy of the rest of the league. Fortunately, David Moyes understands this, so while neither player is an automatic choice in the team, they are both still vital squad members, worth much more than any small fee we would get for them.
If a team paid 20 million for Fellaini then we should bite their hand off - given our financial problems ...at this stage in his Everton career he hasn't had a prolonged spell of consistency.
A few good performances does not a summer make.
Good player, but some of the messiah talk here is well premature.
A few good performances does not a summer make.
Good player, but some of the messiah talk here is well premature.
Chris (#654)
Completely agree: Phil Neville and Tim Cahill have been fantastic servants to the club and should be allowed to carry on that way! If you read Moyes's comments on Jelavic, it was those two players who took him out when he arrived and laid down what it means to be at Everton! Quite brilliant professionals and without their experience we would struggle to finish top 8!
They may start to move down the pecking order as they now get older and rightly so if they are not as good as the others waiting to come in, but they should be here until they want to leave. Neville has actually been playing very well recently and has been consistent since he signed. Players like Barkley, Baxter and Duffy love them and respect them and they are the future. We don't see what goes on behind the scenes but I bet you those two are behind every bit of positive energy within the playing squad!
Completely agree: Phil Neville and Tim Cahill have been fantastic servants to the club and should be allowed to carry on that way! If you read Moyes's comments on Jelavic, it was those two players who took him out when he arrived and laid down what it means to be at Everton! Quite brilliant professionals and without their experience we would struggle to finish top 8!
They may start to move down the pecking order as they now get older and rightly so if they are not as good as the others waiting to come in, but they should be here until they want to leave. Neville has actually been playing very well recently and has been consistent since he signed. Players like Barkley, Baxter and Duffy love them and respect them and they are the future. We don't see what goes on behind the scenes but I bet you those two are behind every bit of positive energy within the playing squad!
Chris 654, understand where you're coming from but eventually every player has had his time. You also say that neither player is an automatic choice, well both are regular first teamers so I would argue against that.
They may have been very good for the club in the past (in different ways) but its time to play others. They are simply not good enough (IMO) to still be playing regular first team footy. Also they are both on about 50k a week, which is cash I feel could be spent on younger, quicker, better players.
By all means keep them here in a coaching capacity or extend their contracts but with vastly resduced wages, but dont keep it as it is. Cahill will be 33 in Dec and Neville will be 36 next Jan! How much longer do you suggest playing them and paying them 50k a week?
They may have been very good for the club in the past (in different ways) but its time to play others. They are simply not good enough (IMO) to still be playing regular first team footy. Also they are both on about 50k a week, which is cash I feel could be spent on younger, quicker, better players.
By all means keep them here in a coaching capacity or extend their contracts but with vastly resduced wages, but dont keep it as it is. Cahill will be 33 in Dec and Neville will be 36 next Jan! How much longer do you suggest playing them and paying them 50k a week?
Denis (659), I fully agree that Neville and Cahill both need to be ?phased out?. David Moyes is going about it the right way by picking and choosing when to play them. I have no idea how much they are paid, but I am sure Moyes has an input when players? contracts are negotiated. He is in a better position than any of us to know how that will affect his transfer budget.
I?m just concerned that criticism by some people on this site goes way over the top. It would be a great shame if either player became a target of the ?boo-boys?, because they both give 100% for Everton, and deserve respect.
I?m just concerned that criticism by some people on this site goes way over the top. It would be a great shame if either player became a target of the ?boo-boys?, because they both give 100% for Everton, and deserve respect.
Chris - I agree with you to a point and would never boo either of them or any individual player. Neville has recieved a fair amount of abuse from the crowd ever since he signed for us which I think is completely unwarrented.
Neville, I think has the capacity to be a great coach / manager and so needs to be phased out of the playing field and into the coaching staff. Cahill wouldn't bring in a big fee now and is useful to have around but if he is not playing as much then his wage needs to come down to allow room for some fresh faces.
Neville, I think has the capacity to be a great coach / manager and so needs to be phased out of the playing field and into the coaching staff. Cahill wouldn't bring in a big fee now and is useful to have around but if he is not playing as much then his wage needs to come down to allow room for some fresh faces.
That depends on Moyes Chris - pif he continually picks players who the fans feel are over the hill, then the fans will show their frustrations...
Admittendly, its not their fault if the manager picks them...
Admittendly, its not their fault if the manager picks them...
Chris
Yeah £100,000 a week just for the sake of team spirit.Both players start 95% of the games their available for,I see no sign of them being phased out.
Neville has never been good enough and Cahill's usefullness ended the second he stopped scoring goals,all he is now is a defensive midfielder masquerading as a forward.
Even Cahill's biggest fans can see he's finished so expect Moyes to offer him and highlights new 5 year deals in the summer.
Yeah £100,000 a week just for the sake of team spirit.Both players start 95% of the games their available for,I see no sign of them being phased out.
Neville has never been good enough and Cahill's usefullness ended the second he stopped scoring goals,all he is now is a defensive midfielder masquerading as a forward.
Even Cahill's biggest fans can see he's finished so expect Moyes to offer him and highlights new 5 year deals in the summer.
Chris
Sorry for the sarcasism,I didnt get much sleep.
Sorry for the sarcasism,I didnt get much sleep.
Regarding the Cahill and Neville issues, I'd rather they were told to change their outlook on their role. When Scholes retired last year from Man U it was because he was told he'd only play half the time, and he felt he could/should play all the time. Keeping him involved in Carrington with the youth and reserves was Fergie's way of psyching him out, and getting him back into the fold, on his terms. Giggs had already accepted that revised role.
Neville and Cahill would be ideal to have as fall-back options, impact subs, occasional starters. We don't have the strength in depth to shift out a load of players, especially ones with little/no value.
Neville and Cahill would be ideal to have as fall-back options, impact subs, occasional starters. We don't have the strength in depth to shift out a load of players, especially ones with little/no value.
Matt
They might have little or no value but we cant pay back up players £50,000 each a week.Giving them away for nothing would save the club over £5m a year.
They might have little or no value but we cant pay back up players £50,000 each a week.Giving them away for nothing would save the club over £5m a year.
Hopefully, Tim will be better next season after a long rest. If he wants to be playing for Everton, he needs to knock the Aussie games on the head. He can't do both anymore.
I'd only sell if someone is daft enough to pay decent money for him.
As for Neville, he's been far from a waste of space in the second half of the season and is very much an important member of the squad and we wouldn't get decent money for him.
I don't know if Everton are able to reduce the wages but i'd keep them both anyway.
I'd only sell if someone is daft enough to pay decent money for him.
As for Neville, he's been far from a waste of space in the second half of the season and is very much an important member of the squad and we wouldn't get decent money for him.
I don't know if Everton are able to reduce the wages but i'd keep them both anyway.
Paul (#670) I agree with the wage issue, but until the club starts offering the over 30's reduced terms (they're all mutli-millionaires now) the problem will persist. It's not an Everton problem, it's a football problem. As long as clubs are willing to offer silly money, there'll be takers. Agents aren't the kingmakers some think they are, they're just dealing in a business that on the whole is run by amateurs in that field.
Jamie (#671) I know Tim personally, and I think I can categorically state that he will continue to play for Australia as long as he's selected. If you know how hard he had to fight to even qualify, you'd understand!
Jamie (#671) I know Tim personally, and I think I can categorically state that he will continue to play for Australia as long as he's selected. If you know how hard he had to fight to even qualify, you'd understand!
Matt
Most clubs dont give players contracts that last well into their 30's like we do.Everyone knows players start to decline once they hit 30 (some faster than others) except Moyes and Kenright.Paying big wages is one thing,tying players down on big wages till their 35 is another.
Most clubs dont give players contracts that last well into their 30's like we do.Everyone knows players start to decline once they hit 30 (some faster than others) except Moyes and Kenright.Paying big wages is one thing,tying players down on big wages till their 35 is another.
Totally agree Matt (#669)!
We still have a small squad and Cahill keeps in good shape and has the potential to be a good backup/impact player for Everton, who would be lucky to get a couple of million for him!
Neville adds other values. He's not great at any position but does a steady job and is pretty dependable. He's also like having an extra coach on the field and is a positive role model for anyone at the club from what I've heard. Again would get no value from his sale.
I feel Jelavic is what we've needed for some time! I thought the Yak was after his 22goals though that fell through. Suggesting we could do with backup. I think the Strac is overprice at anything over the $2million mark, so would need to look elsewhere and again raises questions of funds.
Pienaar is a need! So who can we sell without disrupting the team too much. Firstly if there are any takers for Anichiebe and Yobo are worth a few million but not much and then your looking at the youth.
Could we get over $20mill for Rodwell? Is next season his season? Then there are a few lads who are approaching make or break; James Wallace, Jose Baxter, Adam Forshaw and Joao Silva. These could all possibly step up or could we get a few Million between them?
Baxter reminds me of Osman and maybe a decent squad player, but we have a tiny squad so it's a big call.
I think, if it meant not losing any of our key players, I would settle for Pienaar, and hope we could get another creative player relatively cheap like Hoilett of Blackburn and hope the chance of playing more football than at one of the other supposedly larger clubs could persuade him! IF we have a spare bob or two!?
We still have a small squad and Cahill keeps in good shape and has the potential to be a good backup/impact player for Everton, who would be lucky to get a couple of million for him!
Neville adds other values. He's not great at any position but does a steady job and is pretty dependable. He's also like having an extra coach on the field and is a positive role model for anyone at the club from what I've heard. Again would get no value from his sale.
I feel Jelavic is what we've needed for some time! I thought the Yak was after his 22goals though that fell through. Suggesting we could do with backup. I think the Strac is overprice at anything over the $2million mark, so would need to look elsewhere and again raises questions of funds.
Pienaar is a need! So who can we sell without disrupting the team too much. Firstly if there are any takers for Anichiebe and Yobo are worth a few million but not much and then your looking at the youth.
Could we get over $20mill for Rodwell? Is next season his season? Then there are a few lads who are approaching make or break; James Wallace, Jose Baxter, Adam Forshaw and Joao Silva. These could all possibly step up or could we get a few Million between them?
Baxter reminds me of Osman and maybe a decent squad player, but we have a tiny squad so it's a big call.
I think, if it meant not losing any of our key players, I would settle for Pienaar, and hope we could get another creative player relatively cheap like Hoilett of Blackburn and hope the chance of playing more football than at one of the other supposedly larger clubs could persuade him! IF we have a spare bob or two!?
Paul, I think the 30 thing is something of a bygone era when it was a fag at half time and a quick rub down after. AC Milan won the EC with everyone arriving on a bus pass so you should be looking higher.
Matt, i don't doubt how much he loves playing for his country. Whether he can keep doing so is a different matter. I think we've all seen how much the trips take out of him.
Nick
I know players are fitter now than 20 years a go but players still decline past 30.With the exception of goal keepers and possibly centre halves as they do the least running on a pitch I cant think of many players who play as well at 33 as they did at 29 so I can not see a reason to tie players down on big wages till there 34.
I know players are fitter now than 20 years a go but players still decline past 30.With the exception of goal keepers and possibly centre halves as they do the least running on a pitch I cant think of many players who play as well at 33 as they did at 29 so I can not see a reason to tie players down on big wages till there 34.
Jamie, the point I was making was as long as he's selected, he'll travel. He won't retire. I first met him in Singapore in 2007 at an Australian training camp prior to an ASEAN Cup tournament, and he was still recovering from one of his metatarsal breaks. I had to promise he'd be back to the hotel in time for a midnight appointment with a physio to get then coach Graham Arnold's agreement to release him for the evening!
Martin (675) who are you calling a 'need'? What is a need?
Is it like a mis-spelt 'toed'?
As for Tim Cahill ? a throwback to when players were grateful for the chance to play and the great lifestyle it gave them; the type who clearly plays for love of the game. For me, the man's a true Everton legend. I only hope he ends his Everton career as he deserves and not, like happened to Reidy, getting played and moaned at when he was clearly past his best.
Is it like a mis-spelt 'toed'?
As for Tim Cahill ? a throwback to when players were grateful for the chance to play and the great lifestyle it gave them; the type who clearly plays for love of the game. For me, the man's a true Everton legend. I only hope he ends his Everton career as he deserves and not, like happened to Reidy, getting played and moaned at when he was clearly past his best.
When the 'fast twitch' muscle fibres decline, as they do in all sportsmen of a certain vintage there's sod all you can do about it - no amount of training or keeping yourself in shape will turn back the effects fast twitch muscle fibre loss.
It used to be termed your 'legs going'.
Of course your genetics play a great part - and just as some people start losing hair in their 20s and going grey earlier than others, so some footballers will start losing their legs earlier than others - It's not happening to Distin yet - I reckon he can still out sprint most of the team, including the kids in the youth team - but they will go, eventually and when the effect becomes noticeable it's often a steep and very quick decline.
It used to be termed your 'legs going'.
Of course your genetics play a great part - and just as some people start losing hair in their 20s and going grey earlier than others, so some footballers will start losing their legs earlier than others - It's not happening to Distin yet - I reckon he can still out sprint most of the team, including the kids in the youth team - but they will go, eventually and when the effect becomes noticeable it's often a steep and very quick decline.
If you are going to sell something, top of the list would be the club itself. Having a strong backer would help and give Moyes some money, I don't believe he (Moyes) needs much and would be worried about us paying top money for someone, some of the best players in the Prem have not cost that much. I am not saying expensive players don't cut it but high risk, and eggs in one basket comes to mind. Investment would also remove the need for the club to sell.
I would keep the current squad as is for the next season and see what happens, I don't think we need more players but would be good to have cover for some. Two decent strikers would be great news, and as people have mentioned the right side could do with some work. I would be looking at Bosmans, cheep players and loans for this, we don't have large amounts of cash, and keeping what we have for a season might prove a great step forward.
However, I don't think we need to be scared or worried about selling good players. Man Utd have had a history of selling some of their best players, some young, some older. Most were at the top of their game or on the up, so we should not be worried when Baines, Felliani or Jelavic get sold. But not everyone is for sale and Man Utd have been wise in who they have kept, Giggs and Scoles stand out, but there have been many others. So we should be wise in who we keep and sell. Selling does not make you a weak club or a feeder club, if you are wise with the money you get in then it is a good deal. Newcastle selling Carroll is a great example of a player, playing well for a short time, the club cash in and turns out Carroll is not a £35m player.
I would keep the current squad as is for the next season and see what happens, I don't think we need more players but would be good to have cover for some. Two decent strikers would be great news, and as people have mentioned the right side could do with some work. I would be looking at Bosmans, cheep players and loans for this, we don't have large amounts of cash, and keeping what we have for a season might prove a great step forward.
However, I don't think we need to be scared or worried about selling good players. Man Utd have had a history of selling some of their best players, some young, some older. Most were at the top of their game or on the up, so we should not be worried when Baines, Felliani or Jelavic get sold. But not everyone is for sale and Man Utd have been wise in who they have kept, Giggs and Scoles stand out, but there have been many others. So we should be wise in who we keep and sell. Selling does not make you a weak club or a feeder club, if you are wise with the money you get in then it is a good deal. Newcastle selling Carroll is a great example of a player, playing well for a short time, the club cash in and turns out Carroll is not a £35m player.
Carroll is in the wrong team; he would be good with Jelavic. Cheeky bid, say £4mil tops.
I would not sell Rodwell just yet. Don't get me wrong, I don't exactly rate him highly but, after the piss poor season he has just had, his valuation will be very low.
Jagielka will be 30 in the summer and if we are ever going to cash in on him now is the time. I feel this is the last chance we have of getting big money for Jagielka, especially if he plays some part for England in the Euros.
And maybe if Jagielka leaves then Rodwell could be tried out at Centre Back. Moyes always said Rodwell is a future Centre Back.
Maybe Jagielka leaving will raise transfer funds and give Rodwell a chance to prove himself in a different position.
Jagielka will be 30 in the summer and if we are ever going to cash in on him now is the time. I feel this is the last chance we have of getting big money for Jagielka, especially if he plays some part for England in the Euros.
And maybe if Jagielka leaves then Rodwell could be tried out at Centre Back. Moyes always said Rodwell is a future Centre Back.
Maybe Jagielka leaving will raise transfer funds and give Rodwell a chance to prove himself in a different position.
Respectful suggestion:-
Just rely on our manager to wheel and deal as he sees fit. He hasn`t done that too badly over the past ten years, has he? I also think that he can handle BK pretty effectively, too!
Just rely on our manager to wheel and deal as he sees fit. He hasn`t done that too badly over the past ten years, has he? I also think that he can handle BK pretty effectively, too!
All this talk of Dempsey, i know he is a good player and has had a great season. But is he what we need, age and money wise? For 2 or 3 seasons....
Ian,
I think he is, I've always thought he was a good player and if Moyes is going to continue with this formation, I think it's better to have a creative forward capable of scoring goals playing off Jelavic than a midfielder pushed up.
I think he is, I've always thought he was a good player and if Moyes is going to continue with this formation, I think it's better to have a creative forward capable of scoring goals playing off Jelavic than a midfielder pushed up.
Richard, I know you have trouble relating to what the rest of us see, but do you recall the Blue Funk plastered across Moyes's less-than-happy face at the start of the season?
It lasted until well past January and it was in all likelihood down to (a) his inability to 'wheel and deal' and (b) the painful fact that he was stuck with fiscal constraints of Blue Bill's making and he could do sod all about it.
What makes you think it's going to be any different this summer?
It lasted until well past January and it was in all likelihood down to (a) his inability to 'wheel and deal' and (b) the painful fact that he was stuck with fiscal constraints of Blue Bill's making and he could do sod all about it.
What makes you think it's going to be any different this summer?
Paul,
I agree about having a creative forward playing off
Jelavic instead of a midfielder, and i would be happy
with Dempsey..
Just thinking of his age and is he going to get any better...
I agree about having a creative forward playing off
Jelavic instead of a midfielder, and i would be happy
with Dempsey..
Just thinking of his age and is he going to get any better...
I want us to bring the age down of the squad.Dempsey is a few years younger than Cahill,so if signing Dempsey means the end of Cahill's Everton career then its a small step in the right direction.
I can see a swap deal betwwen the 2.
I can see a swap deal betwwen the 2.
While it's topical again...
As much as i rate Clint Dempsey, he's not the answer, in fact he's another Tim Cahill shaped problem.
I love Tim Cahill but the fact is he has forced us to play with one up front and one/two defensive midfielders for the best part of a decade, now in my book you have to be an effin superstar to impose that on a club and neither Tim or Clint are that.
As much as i rate Clint Dempsey, he's not the answer, in fact he's another Tim Cahill shaped problem.
I love Tim Cahill but the fact is he has forced us to play with one up front and one/two defensive midfielders for the best part of a decade, now in my book you have to be an effin superstar to impose that on a club and neither Tim or Clint are that.
Drew I couldn't agree with you more but I cant see Moyes changing his formation and I would rather Dempsey (or Sigurdsson) play that role than Cahill.
PAUL 635
As an old arse, I remember the late 80s when we replaced Gary Stevens with Kevin MacDonald, Trevor Steven with Pat Nevin, Peter Reid with Ian McCall, Graeme Sharp with Mike Newell...
-----------------
No-one I hope and certainly not the boss is considering more than one key player. We need Pienaar, another striker, and probably some young blood at the back. £10 million minimum, prob £15 m, with only probale sale of Yobo coming up for about £2m.
Barring some Shiekh turning up, one will likely go. And we most likely won't get to choose whom. But I certainly would be worried if more than one from Felli, Jags, Heitinga, Rodwell or Baines were to leave.
As an old arse, I remember the late 80s when we replaced Gary Stevens with Kevin MacDonald, Trevor Steven with Pat Nevin, Peter Reid with Ian McCall, Graeme Sharp with Mike Newell...
-----------------
No-one I hope and certainly not the boss is considering more than one key player. We need Pienaar, another striker, and probably some young blood at the back. £10 million minimum, prob £15 m, with only probale sale of Yobo coming up for about £2m.
Barring some Shiekh turning up, one will likely go. And we most likely won't get to choose whom. But I certainly would be worried if more than one from Felli, Jags, Heitinga, Rodwell or Baines were to leave.
Paul 635 I am an old arse as well who saw these guys but a few corrections: Kevin MacDonald played for the Shite! Gary Stevens was replaced by Neil McDonald and Peter Reid by Stuart McCall. All rebuilding by Colin Harvey. You are correct though with Nevin and Newell.
From our saleable assets;
Heitinga
Jagielka
Baines
Fellaini
Jelavic
There can only be one option - Sell Jagielka.
Our teams next season must be built around Baines, Heitinga, Fellaini and Jelavic.
I think that Tony Hibbert has been fantastic this season and has weighed in with a few assists too. His defensive qualities have never been in doubt but if he can continue to cross the ball as well as he has recently, I have no problem with seeing him as the first choice right back.
It is clear we need a right winger. If we can get that issue sorted then I see a decent first eleven next season.
Selling Jagielka would mean that we need another centre half in reserve and if we are buying Pienaar - which I hope we do - then with any money we raise from the Jagielka sale (even if we only get £8-10million - we can spend £3million on Peanuts and have around £7million for a winger and defender.
I am not going to start a FM style wish list but there are players at the relegated clubs who could fill a bench space and do a job if needed.
For example, of the teams likely to go down - Bolton, Blackburn, QPR, Villa - along with Wolves, there are several decent budget buys available.
I would have no issues with seeing an Everton team of;
Howard
Hibbert
Heitinga
Distin
Baines
Gibson
Osman
Pienaar
A N OTHER
Fellaini
Jelavic
Heitinga
Jagielka
Baines
Fellaini
Jelavic
There can only be one option - Sell Jagielka.
Our teams next season must be built around Baines, Heitinga, Fellaini and Jelavic.
I think that Tony Hibbert has been fantastic this season and has weighed in with a few assists too. His defensive qualities have never been in doubt but if he can continue to cross the ball as well as he has recently, I have no problem with seeing him as the first choice right back.
It is clear we need a right winger. If we can get that issue sorted then I see a decent first eleven next season.
Selling Jagielka would mean that we need another centre half in reserve and if we are buying Pienaar - which I hope we do - then with any money we raise from the Jagielka sale (even if we only get £8-10million - we can spend £3million on Peanuts and have around £7million for a winger and defender.
I am not going to start a FM style wish list but there are players at the relegated clubs who could fill a bench space and do a job if needed.
For example, of the teams likely to go down - Bolton, Blackburn, QPR, Villa - along with Wolves, there are several decent budget buys available.
I would have no issues with seeing an Everton team of;
Howard
Hibbert
Heitinga
Distin
Baines
Gibson
Osman
Pienaar
A N OTHER
Fellaini
Jelavic
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539 Posted 29/04/2012 at 16:42:09
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Buy
It is surely the same predicament as previous years where on the face of it we don't need too much to move forward. I would love to see Victor Moses at the club (£5m?) could play on the wing and is a younger alternative to Dempsey. Pienaar is a must but Levy would sell his own gran for a few quid so I would rule out a good deal on this one.
This leads us on to who can fund it. For me it would be as follows
1) Jags
2) Felliani
3) Baines
Jags- for me is now a squad player. Arsenal want rid of Mertesaker, if they were to offer 8m i would let him go. Heitinga should be the defender we build the team around, and should be the next captain
Felliani - Will be interest allowing up to push up the price, am i the only one who is worried that there may be some agreement in the new contract he signed? He will surely want CL football as he is good enough for any team. We should be looking to make a tidy 10m on what we paid though? The money SHOULD allow us to significantly improve various areas of the team though unlike Jagielka
Baines- key player for us, but IF the money allowed us to build team where we were not so reliant on a left back for all of our attacking impotece i am unsure how much we would miss him?
I am sorry for this sounding a little football manager, but it is that time of the season! and I hope this offers a realistic appraisal of our options, not like some on other threads who seem to think we have the money to add several new faces without any compromise.