Season 2011-12
The Mail Bag
Stand Together
43 Comments: I saw this article on The Mersey Juror website and thought it should be shared for all to read. I for one whole-heartedly agree with what the writer is saying about the hierachy of OUR club.
Original Source:Do You Care About EFC?
Let's Stand Together
On Tuesday 24th April 2012, at the Everton supporters club end-of-season awards, CEO Robert Elstone was asked if there were any interested parties.
He answered ?At the minute it?s very quiet. If you?d have asked me 4 or 5 months ago, then there were 12 interested parties who all came to meet us in London.?
He was then asked if David Moyes will have funds available this summer?
?Funds are very tight at the minute. We?re 3000 tickets down each game, which is costing us around £1.5million. We have been down, around 7 TV games this season, which cost us a lot of money. So I think we will be looking at trading players, which in the past we have done very well at. We have a great deal on at the moment, £95 for an Under-11′s season ticket. So I think if each supporters club could help by buying 5 under-11′s season tickets at a small cost of £500 and finding and bringing 5 under-11s to bring to Goodison every other week.?
One of the last questions asked, was if he thought David Moyes would stay? ?I hope his relationship with the Chairman keeps him here.?
12 interested parties, all disappear quicker than The Liverpool Echo printing a groveling apology. There could be several reasons why all 12 interested parties scarpered. For now, I?ll touch on two.
There is a cancer eating away at the organs of our club, evident by the grim financial figures that forced Robert Elstone to make up the 85 pence in £1 spin.
A quick scan through the Everton finances will tell you that, wages apart, Finch Farm is costing £38,000 a day. Bellefield and Netherton were costing £8,000, which is the same amount it costs Liverpool to run their academy.
I can honestly state that Robert Elstone is a liar. How do I know? He told me to my face. In the summer of 2011, The Peoples Group began raising media awareness on a national scale, letting people know that things are far from rosey in the Everton garden.
I?m sure you know by now, that Derek Hatton arranged for myself, Mark Jones and Barry Jones to meet with Robert Elstone. Here are a few things we discussed:
Is it true Jagielka needs must be sold to Arsenal to appease the banks?
(He was worth around £15mil at that time.) His answer was ?The banks need to see some money, but nowhere near on that scale.? LIE! That summer we sold Yakubu, Vaughan, Beckford and Arteta. Yobo was loaned out and Dan Gosling jumped ship. Despite The Echo apologising for stating that the money went to the banks, David Moyes confirmed this to be the case. It?s also worth noting that in January of the same year, we sold Pienaar and Bellefield.
When the Kirkby move was alive, Bill claimed that very soon, Goodison Park would not pass its safety certificate.
(We were worried that this could still be an issue.) Robert laughed and said ?I doubt very much that Bill said anything of the sort.? He was then informed the video of the interview was on YouTube then said ?Well look, we all said things we didn?t necessarily mean because we were desperate to make the move happen.? In other words, WE LIED!
Derek Hatton was asked, "Does Phillip Green control the club?"
?No! I wouldn?t be surprised if he has lent Bill money though.? So it may be the case that these interested parties refuse to buy the club, because we are actually in a pretty poor state. Hence the constant lies and spin from the top. Another reason could be because the club insist on associating with useless idiots such as Keith Harris and Chris Potts, who works for corporate estate agent Savills. Incidentally, these two have been involved with the club since 2001.
The following event was relayed to me on the authority of a man representing a firm of developers, sent to meet with Everton officials including Robert Elstone, by a Liverpool City counsellor with regards to a development project at Stonebridge Cross. It was Potts who did all the talking then announced ?£10million needs to be paid up-front to Everton to use their name for your development.? There wasn?t even a development in place, it was an initial meeting, a fact finding mission if you will, to see ?if? there was scope for a development. Needless to say, they headed for the exits quicker than John Thompson can edit an anti-Kenwright article.
The men present did not care much for Potts?s tone either. Chris Potts's fingerprints are all over the Kings Dock, Destination Kirkby and Bellefield fiascoes. He is a bad smell we can?t get rid of. The club will attempt to tell you his CV speaks for itself. It is utter tosh. A lad by ours called 18 months (he has an ear and a half) can boast he was involved in the development of Wembley stadium. He was: he done the tiling in the toilets. Quite simply, Chris Potts is a little weasel.
Bill Kenwright and his friends in the media are forever telling us, he has Everton?s best interests at heart. NO HE DOES NOT!! The Kings Dock arena was the biggest missed opportunity in the club's history but it didn?t have to be. Paul Gregg offered to make the dream happen if Kenwright relinquished power. Kenwright refused the offer.
Fenway Sports have recently declared Liverpool Football Club?s stadium plans are on hold until the economic climate improves. Well, did you know that, if a similar statement from Everton had come all them years ago, The Echo Arena would not exist? The funding would have been reserved for Everton to eventually build the Kings Dock arena.
What happened though, was Bill Kenwright pulled the plug. I ask you this: Is that the action of a man with Everton?s best interests at heart? I would argue it?s the action of a very spiteful man with his own interests at heart.
The Oldham Echo and the mainstream press quite rightly tore chunks out of Tom Hicks and George Gillett for their ownership of Liverpool Football Club. Compare this:
Hicks and Gillett:
1. Lied about having money to build the club.
2. Lied about piling debts on the club.
3. Lied about threat of administration.
4. Described upset fans as noise they?re dealing with
Kenwright:
1. Lied twice: The ?ring-fenced? money for Kings Dock, and Tesco paying £52 million towards Kirkby.
2. Bill lied about debt. Vibrac loans are a disgrace and £1.1 million a year for 50 years, just to pay for Finch Farm is ridiculous.
3. Bill lied about administration and the leaked emails prove it.
4. Bill has said that The Blue Union have ?betrayed the club.?
When The Blue Union first began with their ?Support the team. Oppose stagnation? message, a large number of journos were quick to pour scorn over it. They insisted Everton had not stagnated and had become a victim of their own success.
However, ?success? is a word used very loosely, especially when it comes to plucky little Everton. League positions over recent years are 6th, 5th, 5th, 8th and 7th. This season you would imagine we will finish 7th/8th. So last year we finished 7th, didn?t win a trophy and had no money. This year we could finish 7th, have won no trophy and are still skint. When you consider that a lot of our players have their best days behind them, with no sale value, stagnation becomes quite appealing because sooner or later, the proverbial will well and truly hit the fan.
If we cast our minds back to the start of the season, we understand that Everton operates on a £5 million loss per year. The aforementioned Mr Elstone tells us that around £1.5 million is being lost on ticket sales and fewer TV games are costing a lot of money. For argument's sake, let's say a reasonable figure of £3.5mil. That means we now must find £10 million just to break even, so the eternal optimists in our ranks need to wake up. Steven Pienaar, the man who has transformed our season since January, is highly un-likely to sign.
This brand of lazy journalism which paints Kenwright as a man of truth and integrity, is just not good enough. It really is about time that some of you investigated what exactly is happening at our club.
Obviously there are some absolute head the balls, who can?t see the woods through the trees. Andy Dunn, Oliver Holt, Dominic King, Dave Maddocks, Martin Samuel and of course, old big undies himself Mike Parry. To them, Bill Kenwright is the white Martin Luther King.
Like anything in life, it takes just one to make a stand and get things moving. For me it has to be Dave Prentice. Dave, you have to start realising your own importance to The Echo. You won't be sacked, you?re the main man there and they know it. From one Evertonian to another, Please, do the right thing. Evertonians now need to make a stand and let the men in power at OUR club realise we are no longer willing to accept it.
A lot of people argue that the Blue Union and The People's Group aren?t doing enough and I agree. However, Evertonians as a whole are not doing enough. There is no point sitting behind a keyboard on forums moaning. Every Evertonian who is worried must now, really stand together.
The Mersey Juror
Paul Jamieson, Posted 03/05/2012 at 10:09:46
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"If we cast our minds back to the start of the season, we understand that Everton operates on a £5 million loss per year"
Only today Liverpool FC recorded a £49.4 ANNUAL loss and that's after Fenway Sports Group wiped out £200 million worth of debts in 2010 - yet they spent almost £85 Million on players.
This is the arena where Everton FC not only have to compete - they have to exist.
Sure, our leaders are incompetent, untrustworthy and incapable - but whoever takes over in the future has to compete in a system where other teams can lose £50 million plus a year and still have the ability to shop at the 'World Class Player mall, where we shop at 'No Frills'... and it ain't just Liverpool who can sustain these losses... Manchester City, Chelsea will both attain record losses this season.
The game is rigged... or have you not noticed?
Only today Liverpool FC recorded a £49.4 ANNUAL loss and that's after Fenway Sports Group wiped out £200 million worth of debts in 2010 - yet they spent almost £85 Million on players.
This is the arena where Everton FC not only have to compete - they have to exist.
Sure, our leaders are incompetent, untrustworthy and incapable - but whoever takes over in the future has to compete in a system where other teams can lose £50 million plus a year and still have the ability to shop at the 'World Class Player mall, where we shop at 'No Frills'... and it ain't just Liverpool who can sustain these losses... Manchester City, Chelsea will both attain record losses this season.
The game is rigged... or have you not noticed?
Much of this is not new, but for me the salient point is about the number of hangers on who are trying to make a pot of cash.
I know of at least one who worked on a sporting project in Asia with a representative of someone interested in buying EFC. Promises were made of figures coming through, and a delegation flew in to a meeting in Singapore and were left stunned by the material they received. Which was nothing. (The laughable prospectus was still in production).
The Asia-based rep kept the faith (despite being advised to drop it) and then this hanger on delivers his coup de grace for the big project in China - his 6 figure "consulting fee" was doubled just prior to project sign off, and his son was to be brought in as a consultant on similar amounts.
Needless to say the project was un-signed, in tatters despite months of work and costs incurred. That rep who is very established in Asia funnily enough won't now discuss EFC with any of the viable parties he represented.
Ach, we're doomed!
I know of at least one who worked on a sporting project in Asia with a representative of someone interested in buying EFC. Promises were made of figures coming through, and a delegation flew in to a meeting in Singapore and were left stunned by the material they received. Which was nothing. (The laughable prospectus was still in production).
The Asia-based rep kept the faith (despite being advised to drop it) and then this hanger on delivers his coup de grace for the big project in China - his 6 figure "consulting fee" was doubled just prior to project sign off, and his son was to be brought in as a consultant on similar amounts.
Needless to say the project was un-signed, in tatters despite months of work and costs incurred. That rep who is very established in Asia funnily enough won't now discuss EFC with any of the viable parties he represented.
Ach, we're doomed!
Kevin #462, I can assure you LFC cannot sustain that kind of loss with the tanking their revenue has taken from not being in the CL. Their owners will not allow one franchise to impact the viability of their portfolio.
Did you miss Queen Kenny's latest line stating words to the effect that the cups are overlooked and too much emphasis is placed on the league? Just as our lot do, they are dumbing down expectations. Don't expect a summer of £110m spending like last time whilst they cut costs and try to shift some of the high earners out. The rumours about signing Drenthe (an erratic and troubled player, but free) are lent credance by their circumstances.
Did you miss Queen Kenny's latest line stating words to the effect that the cups are overlooked and too much emphasis is placed on the league? Just as our lot do, they are dumbing down expectations. Don't expect a summer of £110m spending like last time whilst they cut costs and try to shift some of the high earners out. The rumours about signing Drenthe (an erratic and troubled player, but free) are lent credance by their circumstances.
Matt, I just hope this new overseas TV deal does not save all their sorry arses. Every time Sky or ESPN up the ante, it buys our board more time.
When is it due to be signed?
When is it due to be signed?
I hope that's true Matt - I was reading up on 'Warrior Sports' last week, the people who are going to supplying their £25 million kit deal and it's interesting that there seems to be a lot of potential overlap between Fenway and Warrior... makes you think.
Kevin #473, the overseas TV deal is currently worth £17,926,595 per season for each club. It is paid monthly. LFC wanted to change this so it was more closely aligned to global fan base (like how would that be measured) and the fact that they are shown more times than anyone other than Man U. When Ian Ayre floated this he was shouted down by everyone, including Man Utd. (This is just one in a series of many panics they are having over their declining status.)
The original article in The Mersey Juror quotes Elstone as saying TV money is down. The domestic TV deal guarantees all clubs a minimum of 10 appearances per season, each with a £582k "facility fee". Last season Man U topped this with 26 appearances, and 9 clubs had the minimum 10. Everton fared slightly better with 13, therefore I don't see this as a big revenue drop.
The overseas and domestic deals are now synced, and are in discussion now for the next round from season 2013-14. There will be changes, with more demand for live games home and abroad.
Currently the UK market allows for 144 live games a year, on Sky and ESPN. If I had to guess, I would say another package will go out for live games. Not sure how many, but they will not breach the 200 in total mark (it's kind of a psychological barrier with clubs and the Prem). It could be another 30 games, which presents 2 problems:
1) UEFA don't like domestic leagues having games the same night as European competitions (though it is unavoidable in some cases). I'm pretty sure they'd throw a big No at live EPL games on a Tues-Thurs at the business end of the season.
2) I don't see where another broadcaster could come in (although ESPN appeared to take over when Setanta went belly up). I doubt BBC / ITV would do it. BBC are struggling to keep hold of what they have (cricket, F1, horse racing) and are happy with MotD highlights. Maybe someone like Al Jazeera would start a UK operation, especially with the Middle East investment in clubs likely to continue.
Regarding the Fenway / Warrior thing. Kit manufacturing isn't my strong point, but I'm sure others have pointed out that it's not the £25m that was mooted. The likely increase in exposure in the US if the Fox TV deal goes through may be tied up in it though.
The original article in The Mersey Juror quotes Elstone as saying TV money is down. The domestic TV deal guarantees all clubs a minimum of 10 appearances per season, each with a £582k "facility fee". Last season Man U topped this with 26 appearances, and 9 clubs had the minimum 10. Everton fared slightly better with 13, therefore I don't see this as a big revenue drop.
The overseas and domestic deals are now synced, and are in discussion now for the next round from season 2013-14. There will be changes, with more demand for live games home and abroad.
Currently the UK market allows for 144 live games a year, on Sky and ESPN. If I had to guess, I would say another package will go out for live games. Not sure how many, but they will not breach the 200 in total mark (it's kind of a psychological barrier with clubs and the Prem). It could be another 30 games, which presents 2 problems:
1) UEFA don't like domestic leagues having games the same night as European competitions (though it is unavoidable in some cases). I'm pretty sure they'd throw a big No at live EPL games on a Tues-Thurs at the business end of the season.
2) I don't see where another broadcaster could come in (although ESPN appeared to take over when Setanta went belly up). I doubt BBC / ITV would do it. BBC are struggling to keep hold of what they have (cricket, F1, horse racing) and are happy with MotD highlights. Maybe someone like Al Jazeera would start a UK operation, especially with the Middle East investment in clubs likely to continue.
Regarding the Fenway / Warrior thing. Kit manufacturing isn't my strong point, but I'm sure others have pointed out that it's not the £25m that was mooted. The likely increase in exposure in the US if the Fox TV deal goes through may be tied up in it though.
Sooooo, where are liverpool going to do a Rangers?
PLEASE Nick, can you imagine that ha. Fuck, it could happen to us.
Fenway will need to keep throwing money at it for some time.
Jags for £15mil?? He's been shit this season; I say fuckin' get rid and get a top quality attacking midfielder!
Jags was worth £15mil at the start of the season. Last summer, nobody believed Arteta would leave and Jags was valued at £15-20mil easy.
The comments on here like every other site seemed to have gone off topic. Every interested party we have had leaves at the VERY FIRST STAGE! Why? If Chris Potts is asking for £10mil for a development that only exists in a councillor's head, could it be possible interested parties are asked for a fee just to see the books? Something stinks at the club but our fans still seem more concerned with Liverpool....
The comments on here like every other site seemed to have gone off topic. Every interested party we have had leaves at the VERY FIRST STAGE! Why? If Chris Potts is asking for £10mil for a development that only exists in a councillor's head, could it be possible interested parties are asked for a fee just to see the books? Something stinks at the club but our fans still seem more concerned with Liverpool....
I think I liked it better when I just supported are club... Now having my eyes opened about the mob behind the scenes feels very daunting, but I keep the faith as I know OUR day will come.
NIL SATIS
NIL SATIS
Good article! Yes, it is true that we will be £10 million in minus after this season is over, so the chance of us getting Pienaar is gone. Given the fact that we are losing £10 million, it would be smart to sign Royston Drenthe, as he has a good resale value.
With Pienaar out of our price range, I cannot see Moyes replacing Pienaar any other way! Of course we could sell Fellaini, but that would destroy the balance of this squad.
Players such as Phil Jagielka and Jack Rodwell are the only players we can really afford to sell without destroying the balance we have right now in the squad.
With the Blue Union going quiet, so have the fans. We have forgot all about how bad our finances is, judging by the articles on buying Pienaar, one would think that we are up £10 million, not minus £10 million.
This summer will be even tougher on this club; given the massive inerest in Baines and Fellaini, I have to say I fear Moyes will screw up along the way by selling either of these two.
Also, if we do not get Pienaar, then we have no other choice but to try and get Drenthe and do the best we can.
Free transfers and loans will be our only option, just as last summer.
With Pienaar out of our price range, I cannot see Moyes replacing Pienaar any other way! Of course we could sell Fellaini, but that would destroy the balance of this squad.
Players such as Phil Jagielka and Jack Rodwell are the only players we can really afford to sell without destroying the balance we have right now in the squad.
With the Blue Union going quiet, so have the fans. We have forgot all about how bad our finances is, judging by the articles on buying Pienaar, one would think that we are up £10 million, not minus £10 million.
This summer will be even tougher on this club; given the massive inerest in Baines and Fellaini, I have to say I fear Moyes will screw up along the way by selling either of these two.
Also, if we do not get Pienaar, then we have no other choice but to try and get Drenthe and do the best we can.
Free transfers and loans will be our only option, just as last summer.
11 comments, meanwhile yet another "is Moyes shit?" debate booms towards 200 comments.
Let's face it, we get what we deserve, no-one's arsed.
All these keyboard warriors can't even be arsed turning up for a protest.
Or some are too concerned about it being "kopite" behaviour. Jesus wept, how small time is that? The equivalent of our 2nd half performance at Wembley.
But the Blue Union's moment may have passed anyway, well, some time ago now actually. I do feel they realised how difficult it was to get things going in the face of such apathy, and sometimes, hostility. Quite where they go from here, who knows.
I got involved as best I could, attended and voiced an opinion at meetings, went to a fundraiser, leafleted etc, gave my contact details over.
I was keen to get involved on a match-by-match basis, if that opportunity had developed, to maintain the momentum. To keep pressure on the board and to reach out to our support, hopefully building some form of groundswell. You have got to try and take people with you.
I got involved as I was sick of being lied to, sick of the bullshit, the spin, the high-handedness and arrogance (unfathomable arrogance considering their ineptitude) with which they continue to treat the support, the smoke and mirrors, the litany of failures..... the complete and total failure to move the ground issue forward ? combined with the breathtaking Kirkby bullshit.
With these clowns, we will be lucky to have moved inside 30 years of the issue first being raised at this rate. And we will be most likely be relegated before that anyway if that's the case. We are financially capped by Goodison and the ground, these days, is frankly embarrassing.
I didn't even feel as if I knew Everton anymore, still don't. I don't recognise the club as the one I grew up supporting. For the record, I'm 35.
Before the cancelled protest, I could tell things were going tits up as there was just no communication coming from them.
I have still heard nothing to this day, first heard the protest was cancelled on here. I can't be arsed with Facebook on a general basis, I hate it. The last gasp of public activity I saw was an article from Si Magner, did the second part of that article follow? I didn't see it; apologies if it did.
I am now working abroad for the summer, till October, so am a little out the loop on what has been happening locally. I know there may have been a Football Quarter initiative in Stanley Park but have been unable to find any feedback on it, so fear it may have been cancelled. I honestly dont know.
Unfortunately, it appears the mindset of the majority of Evertonians, stoned on mid-table finishes, is: "If in doubt... do nothing". We are a passsionless, passive bunch these days. Easily sweetened. There's no atmosphere in the ground. Loanees(!) and £500k signings take the pressure off these days.
Adrian Heath cost more than Darron Gibson. He signed over 30 years ago.
Bit before my time but is Gibson £100k more expensive than Martin Dobson, nearly 40 years ago?
It's all part of the relentless decline of Everton Football Club. One that probably commenced when Brian Labone went off in the FA Cup Semi-Final in 1971. A decline no-one seems prepared to do anything about. Not even protest.
Trigger point? Well if anything can jolt some of the most supine fans in the country, bottom 3 and looking right down the barrel of relegation may do it.
Who knows... but, Christ, part of me feels Evertonians really are a sorry lot these days. And I speak as someone who has seen the suspicion in some people's eyes when leafleting outside our timewarp of a ground.
Part of me felt there really was no future for Everton. Only part of me though.
Let's face it, we get what we deserve, no-one's arsed.
All these keyboard warriors can't even be arsed turning up for a protest.
Or some are too concerned about it being "kopite" behaviour. Jesus wept, how small time is that? The equivalent of our 2nd half performance at Wembley.
But the Blue Union's moment may have passed anyway, well, some time ago now actually. I do feel they realised how difficult it was to get things going in the face of such apathy, and sometimes, hostility. Quite where they go from here, who knows.
I got involved as best I could, attended and voiced an opinion at meetings, went to a fundraiser, leafleted etc, gave my contact details over.
I was keen to get involved on a match-by-match basis, if that opportunity had developed, to maintain the momentum. To keep pressure on the board and to reach out to our support, hopefully building some form of groundswell. You have got to try and take people with you.
I got involved as I was sick of being lied to, sick of the bullshit, the spin, the high-handedness and arrogance (unfathomable arrogance considering their ineptitude) with which they continue to treat the support, the smoke and mirrors, the litany of failures..... the complete and total failure to move the ground issue forward ? combined with the breathtaking Kirkby bullshit.
With these clowns, we will be lucky to have moved inside 30 years of the issue first being raised at this rate. And we will be most likely be relegated before that anyway if that's the case. We are financially capped by Goodison and the ground, these days, is frankly embarrassing.
I didn't even feel as if I knew Everton anymore, still don't. I don't recognise the club as the one I grew up supporting. For the record, I'm 35.
Before the cancelled protest, I could tell things were going tits up as there was just no communication coming from them.
I have still heard nothing to this day, first heard the protest was cancelled on here. I can't be arsed with Facebook on a general basis, I hate it. The last gasp of public activity I saw was an article from Si Magner, did the second part of that article follow? I didn't see it; apologies if it did.
I am now working abroad for the summer, till October, so am a little out the loop on what has been happening locally. I know there may have been a Football Quarter initiative in Stanley Park but have been unable to find any feedback on it, so fear it may have been cancelled. I honestly dont know.
Unfortunately, it appears the mindset of the majority of Evertonians, stoned on mid-table finishes, is: "If in doubt... do nothing". We are a passsionless, passive bunch these days. Easily sweetened. There's no atmosphere in the ground. Loanees(!) and £500k signings take the pressure off these days.
Adrian Heath cost more than Darron Gibson. He signed over 30 years ago.
Bit before my time but is Gibson £100k more expensive than Martin Dobson, nearly 40 years ago?
It's all part of the relentless decline of Everton Football Club. One that probably commenced when Brian Labone went off in the FA Cup Semi-Final in 1971. A decline no-one seems prepared to do anything about. Not even protest.
Trigger point? Well if anything can jolt some of the most supine fans in the country, bottom 3 and looking right down the barrel of relegation may do it.
Who knows... but, Christ, part of me feels Evertonians really are a sorry lot these days. And I speak as someone who has seen the suspicion in some people's eyes when leafleting outside our timewarp of a ground.
Part of me felt there really was no future for Everton. Only part of me though.
I read Elstone's comments and the one statement that jumped out was 'player-trading'. I expect Kenwright to persuade Moyes to carry on, the next step will be for the modus operandi to kick in with the sale of Fellaini to Chelsea for £20 million plus.
We have a track record in this area: small fish in a big pond, and all that, with Rooney and Lescott prime examples of how Everton just about manages to stay in business. I would expect that we will be kicking our heels as Fellaini becomes a greater force in a better team, just as with the case of Rooney.
We have a track record in this area: small fish in a big pond, and all that, with Rooney and Lescott prime examples of how Everton just about manages to stay in business. I would expect that we will be kicking our heels as Fellaini becomes a greater force in a better team, just as with the case of Rooney.
"If we cast our minds back to the start of the season, we understand that Everton operates on a £5 million loss per year"
BUT the loss would have been greater if we had not sold the fixed asset of Bellefield for £10M, not counting several player sales.
We have no more Bellefields to sell this season.
BUT the loss would have been greater if we had not sold the fixed asset of Bellefield for £10M, not counting several player sales.
We have no more Bellefields to sell this season.
Either these 12 interested parties a season are just bullshit to keep the fans happy thinking that there IS someone out there and one day we will be sold.
Or, if they are real, it shows the incompetence of the 'best person to sell the Club' that he can't land one fish from all those nibbles.
Or, if they are real, it shows the incompetence of the 'best person to sell the Club' that he can't land one fish from all those nibbles.
There is a very good book out there called "Who Runs Britain? " by Robert Peston. In it there is a chapter on Everton's greatest friend, Phillip Green.
In here, his buisness model, methods and history are detailed: sell assets for top dollar, re-mortgage whatever properties you hold, take out as many loans as you can get against the said assets, and pay back minimal interest over the long term, then wait for an upturn in the value of your buisness, and then do it all again... and again. Sound familiar?
In here, his buisness model, methods and history are detailed: sell assets for top dollar, re-mortgage whatever properties you hold, take out as many loans as you can get against the said assets, and pay back minimal interest over the long term, then wait for an upturn in the value of your buisness, and then do it all again... and again. Sound familiar?
Other clubs have investors prepared to make money available; we have 'parasites' just looking for what they can get from the club.
Can't believe people take the time to slag off Moyes when this sort of stuff is going on behind the scenes and is far, far more detrimental to the future of the club.
Really does appear we are being run by a bunch of clowns and sooner or later this need to plug the cash hole is going to catch-up with us in a not-so-pretty way...
Really does appear we are being run by a bunch of clowns and sooner or later this need to plug the cash hole is going to catch-up with us in a not-so-pretty way...
Sam (#616) if people believe Walter Smith's comments about twice being close to administration when he was at Everton; if people believe the assertion from the leaked email from Ross that they were close again; if people believe that the finances are so bad there's a £10m hole to plug this season / possibly ongoing, then it's possible that Everton is 12-24 months away from administration.
A few things could happen to change things:
? The new TV deal that is due to kick in for 2013-14 provides an increase of £10m per year (and this isn't given to players) ? Unlikely it will be that big.
? BK gets real about his asking price ? Unlikely if he owes lots of money to outside parties that is not on the EFC books
? The bank stages an intervention.
Of course, a 10-point deduction with our perennial bad start means we couldn't dare going into administration until we were sure we could survive it (but new rules mean it has to be declared by a certain date or the penalty carries over).
A few things could happen to change things:
? The new TV deal that is due to kick in for 2013-14 provides an increase of £10m per year (and this isn't given to players) ? Unlikely it will be that big.
? BK gets real about his asking price ? Unlikely if he owes lots of money to outside parties that is not on the EFC books
? The bank stages an intervention.
Of course, a 10-point deduction with our perennial bad start means we couldn't dare going into administration until we were sure we could survive it (but new rules mean it has to be declared by a certain date or the penalty carries over).
Another contributing factor to scaring away 12 potential buyers could be explained by this extract from an Independent article:
As the club's own sale prospectus writes, Goodison has "inadequate capacity, limited and low-quality hospitality facilities, poor sightlines and limited accessibility."
Way to go Bill, is this how you attract investors for your plays?
As the club's own sale prospectus writes, Goodison has "inadequate capacity, limited and low-quality hospitality facilities, poor sightlines and limited accessibility."
Way to go Bill, is this how you attract investors for your plays?
Eric #630, having seen the prospectus, that is about the only truthful bit of copy in there!
I know what you're saying Eric, it's hardly talking the club up in a sales prospectus!!
It's actually a rare outbreak of honestly if anything, ill-placed at that. But it's not like someone is going to take a look around and disagree is it?!
It's actually a rare outbreak of honestly if anything, ill-placed at that. But it's not like someone is going to take a look around and disagree is it?!
In my view, without a ground move or re-development (ha!) lined up ? and I mean a nailed-on one that is going to happen ? we are hugely unlikely to get a change of ownership, or even some "investment".
The club have got to make themselves selllable. I don't think we are, or are making ourselves so. This whole ground issue is one of the major reasons.
We have all heard the supposed asking price; we're worth virtually fuck all.
The club have got to make themselves selllable. I don't think we are, or are making ourselves so. This whole ground issue is one of the major reasons.
We have all heard the supposed asking price; we're worth virtually fuck all.
Paul, the only comment I see which is true is about Kings Dock being a lost opportunity... but please remember Gregg wanted control via SFX, not just of EFC, but future stadium non-football income too. In hindsight we as fans would take it now but the deal offered was far better for Gregg than it was for EFC.
It?s easy to look back and say it was wrong but at the time we were fighting relegation and the big Sky money was two years away so, at the time, it was a bad deal for the club; sadly, in time, that decision was proved to be disastrous. The Granchesters had enough petty cash to broker that deal or even offer a cross guarantee but they did nothing while Kenwright held out the begging bowl, I have far more contempt for the Granchesters than I do for BK.
LCC also had an issue with LFC as they demanded investment too if the council offered to back EFC and not them; they even threatened to move to Warrington (Burtonwood) at the time and this worried LCC a lot, so the best deal for them was the Echo Arena ? both on cost and standing. If LCC really wanted EFC, it would have happened... so, whilst EFC hold a lot of the blame, you can include LCC and LFC too.
I?m afraid the rest of your article is just a rant, and you question every move EFC Co Ltd make but you fail to grasp that running a failing business like EFC means you have to make decisions short term as opposed to long term, and also be liberal with your information ? it's called 'survival tactics'... and people who run a business will understand the problems EFC has. It doesn?t make what they have done correct (Finch Farm) but they understand.
BK only owns around 27% of EFC, so in theory we have another 73% available and if we had a serious bidder, they could if they wanted make a hostile bid, with or without BK backing;, this has never been attempted or even mooted. The simple fact is, the shares are up for sale as a block and sadly it?s gone very quiet.
I knew of one serious bidder in January and he backed off due to the investment needed to take EFC to the next level. In simple terms, it?s a complete waste of money investing in us as a business; our only hope is a City type owner... and therein lies the problem.
My contact informed me that the sale of EFC has a caveat attached to it that any new owner must invest a serious amount of cash into the club after the share purchase, and this money must be shown at point of sale ? and that?s why the bids fail.
On a flip-side, BK and the rest of the shareholders could walk away very easily if they just sold the shares, which he refuses to do. Like him or not, he has seen what Moores has gone through after the sale of LFC so he has reason to be cautious.
Sadly, at all levels, we have hit a brick wall; chicken-and-egg scenario comes to mind and we can blame as many people as we wish, some valid, some not so... but it doesn?t change at all the predicament we are in; in fact, scaring off Kenwright, like Moores did, could turn out to be worse than what we have at present, and that?s the risk.
I agree: all fans should stand together... but making this a Kenwright issue is wrong. The problems of our club are more serious than the standing of one person; once we grasp that, then maybe we have a chance to unite.
Good Luck.
It?s easy to look back and say it was wrong but at the time we were fighting relegation and the big Sky money was two years away so, at the time, it was a bad deal for the club; sadly, in time, that decision was proved to be disastrous. The Granchesters had enough petty cash to broker that deal or even offer a cross guarantee but they did nothing while Kenwright held out the begging bowl, I have far more contempt for the Granchesters than I do for BK.
LCC also had an issue with LFC as they demanded investment too if the council offered to back EFC and not them; they even threatened to move to Warrington (Burtonwood) at the time and this worried LCC a lot, so the best deal for them was the Echo Arena ? both on cost and standing. If LCC really wanted EFC, it would have happened... so, whilst EFC hold a lot of the blame, you can include LCC and LFC too.
I?m afraid the rest of your article is just a rant, and you question every move EFC Co Ltd make but you fail to grasp that running a failing business like EFC means you have to make decisions short term as opposed to long term, and also be liberal with your information ? it's called 'survival tactics'... and people who run a business will understand the problems EFC has. It doesn?t make what they have done correct (Finch Farm) but they understand.
BK only owns around 27% of EFC, so in theory we have another 73% available and if we had a serious bidder, they could if they wanted make a hostile bid, with or without BK backing;, this has never been attempted or even mooted. The simple fact is, the shares are up for sale as a block and sadly it?s gone very quiet.
I knew of one serious bidder in January and he backed off due to the investment needed to take EFC to the next level. In simple terms, it?s a complete waste of money investing in us as a business; our only hope is a City type owner... and therein lies the problem.
My contact informed me that the sale of EFC has a caveat attached to it that any new owner must invest a serious amount of cash into the club after the share purchase, and this money must be shown at point of sale ? and that?s why the bids fail.
On a flip-side, BK and the rest of the shareholders could walk away very easily if they just sold the shares, which he refuses to do. Like him or not, he has seen what Moores has gone through after the sale of LFC so he has reason to be cautious.
Sadly, at all levels, we have hit a brick wall; chicken-and-egg scenario comes to mind and we can blame as many people as we wish, some valid, some not so... but it doesn?t change at all the predicament we are in; in fact, scaring off Kenwright, like Moores did, could turn out to be worse than what we have at present, and that?s the risk.
I agree: all fans should stand together... but making this a Kenwright issue is wrong. The problems of our club are more serious than the standing of one person; once we grasp that, then maybe we have a chance to unite.
Good Luck.
Bobby #638, I disagree that without a new ground we are unattractive to a buyer. The right buyer would be able to address the issues, and EFC is eminently more saleable now than it would've been had DK gone ahead.
Everton can't tap the corporate markets to the same degree that other clubs can because it's much more than sponsorship of shirts. In addition to the lack of corporate hospitality, the facilities for players, media and (dare I say it) fans at Goodison is woeful in this day and age. Adequate if we were still paying £5 to get in, maybe at a push.
However, I don't believe that prospectus was actually aimed at a buyer. It was more a discussion of opportunities and where investment needs to be made. For the club to continually bang on about retail-led development shows that they have their head in the sand.
The right asking price is £0. The right buyer could invest substantially in the infrastructure and team over a 5 year period to leave EFC with a sustainable business model, and an asset value closer to £0.5bn than £0. It is the asking price for the club which is putting people off (along with numerous other conditions no doubt requiring investment in other projects, board positions etc).
Sadly I think the only way we'll get rid of the incumbents is when they are forced out. By that stage the only interested parties will be vultures, trying to find whatever scraps is left to sell off.
Everton can't tap the corporate markets to the same degree that other clubs can because it's much more than sponsorship of shirts. In addition to the lack of corporate hospitality, the facilities for players, media and (dare I say it) fans at Goodison is woeful in this day and age. Adequate if we were still paying £5 to get in, maybe at a push.
However, I don't believe that prospectus was actually aimed at a buyer. It was more a discussion of opportunities and where investment needs to be made. For the club to continually bang on about retail-led development shows that they have their head in the sand.
The right asking price is £0. The right buyer could invest substantially in the infrastructure and team over a 5 year period to leave EFC with a sustainable business model, and an asset value closer to £0.5bn than £0. It is the asking price for the club which is putting people off (along with numerous other conditions no doubt requiring investment in other projects, board positions etc).
Sadly I think the only way we'll get rid of the incumbents is when they are forced out. By that stage the only interested parties will be vultures, trying to find whatever scraps is left to sell off.
Michael Mulholland says above, "I think I liked it better when I just supported the club..."
Totally agree with you, Michael, all this worrying about Blue Bill and who he mightn't sell to this week, how skint we are, why we should copy RS and lose £50M a season etc, etc, just does my head in. I`m going back to not giving a flying feck about any of it and just enjoying the football.
For certain there`s nothing any of us can do to alter the situation.... or is there???
Totally agree with you, Michael, all this worrying about Blue Bill and who he mightn't sell to this week, how skint we are, why we should copy RS and lose £50M a season etc, etc, just does my head in. I`m going back to not giving a flying feck about any of it and just enjoying the football.
For certain there`s nothing any of us can do to alter the situation.... or is there???
Alan, I agree decisions need to be made in view of the short and long term, this is a balancing act.
But the consequence of all these short term decisions, ones that you appear to condone as necessary and unavoidable, is that Everton appear, factoring in ground, debt etc etc.......virtually uninvestable?
And what long term moves have the club taken that have benefitted us so much? Long term moves that have and will move the club forward.
What have they done? I'd say they are slowly destroying the club.
The main reason Everton is, as you say a "failing business" is that decisions are virtually ALWAYS made for the short term. There has never been any vision or long term planning. We stagger from season to season, increasingly out of breath.
Regarding Kings Dock, you yourself say: "In hindsight we as fans would take it now" & "sadly in time that decision was proved to be disastrous"
The chance to provide the club with world class infrastructure for generations, one that would have provided the adrenaline shot the club desperately needs and transformed the way Everton were perceived regionally, natonally and internationally, binned.
We stagger on, short termism rules.
Death by a thousand cuts.
But the consequence of all these short term decisions, ones that you appear to condone as necessary and unavoidable, is that Everton appear, factoring in ground, debt etc etc.......virtually uninvestable?
And what long term moves have the club taken that have benefitted us so much? Long term moves that have and will move the club forward.
What have they done? I'd say they are slowly destroying the club.
The main reason Everton is, as you say a "failing business" is that decisions are virtually ALWAYS made for the short term. There has never been any vision or long term planning. We stagger from season to season, increasingly out of breath.
Regarding Kings Dock, you yourself say: "In hindsight we as fans would take it now" & "sadly in time that decision was proved to be disastrous"
The chance to provide the club with world class infrastructure for generations, one that would have provided the adrenaline shot the club desperately needs and transformed the way Everton were perceived regionally, natonally and internationally, binned.
We stagger on, short termism rules.
Death by a thousand cuts.
Matt, I agree with you, there are many other factors in the equation, but it's commonly accepted that the likely absurd asking price combined with level of investment for new infrastructure of any kind would be an obstacle ? and that's before you get towards throwing in for players. You refer to corporate and other facilities there yourself.
Basically, if the club can get its shit together with a workable ground move, we WILL definitely be more sellable.
Redevelopment is not an option for this board.
I also believe we are virtually worthless and if someone could come in and take the club for a £1 and redevelop, that would be great; I would love that!!!
But, as you say, the club are obsessed with the retail-led, balance-sheet increase route and BK owes out so is going to keep asking for a certain amount for the club.
And so the merry-go-round of death continues. There appears no way out.
Basically, this board are not interested in redevelopment so the club have got to make themselves more sellable, however they do it.
Basically, if the club can get its shit together with a workable ground move, we WILL definitely be more sellable.
Redevelopment is not an option for this board.
I also believe we are virtually worthless and if someone could come in and take the club for a £1 and redevelop, that would be great; I would love that!!!
But, as you say, the club are obsessed with the retail-led, balance-sheet increase route and BK owes out so is going to keep asking for a certain amount for the club.
And so the merry-go-round of death continues. There appears no way out.
Basically, this board are not interested in redevelopment so the club have got to make themselves more sellable, however they do it.
Re-reading this thread, it did strike me that ? if it`s true BB borrowed the money for his shares from Phil Green ? that's his problem... PERSONALLY. And it doesn`t entitle the retailer to call the shots at EFC.
If, on the other hand, Green is financing the Club, he's entitled to say who it's sold to and at what price.
And I said I wasn't going to worry anymore!
If, on the other hand, Green is financing the Club, he's entitled to say who it's sold to and at what price.
And I said I wasn't going to worry anymore!
Until some hard and fast rules on financing ? in every sense ? are put in place by The Premier League, FA, Uefa... and to which all clubs must subscribe, football is doomed world-wide except for a handful of clubs with sugar daddies.
If investors in Greece et al have to take a 50% haircut, why not overpaid players? Money is the root problem throughout the game.
If investors in Greece et al have to take a 50% haircut, why not overpaid players? Money is the root problem throughout the game.
Jeez... how bad is it getting? Now we all have to trawl the streets press-ganging 11-year-olds. After some of the shite that's been served up this year, the NSPCC would have something to say.
I'm sure there is a myriad of reasons why attendances are down and I believe one of the main ones is overlooked by most clubs. These clubs are in the entertainment industry and unfortunately nowdays most of them don't entertain. There's always the old die-hards ? fans from another era who go along ? but most young 'uns have a million other options to go to.
The product on offer has to offer something; the days of blind loyalty are going. It's like if Everton were a restaurant, after the meal you say to your mate "That was another shit meal, see you in 2 weeks..." Aye, I'm afraid them days are gone.
On another note, Bobby Thomas is another one using the term 'internet warrior' as a dig at people who ain't marching. I reckon this could the wrong website to use it on. I say that cos I reckon most people on here are not in Liverpool but spread across the world, so it makes it a bit difficult to march... that's why we're internet warriors.
I'm sure there is a myriad of reasons why attendances are down and I believe one of the main ones is overlooked by most clubs. These clubs are in the entertainment industry and unfortunately nowdays most of them don't entertain. There's always the old die-hards ? fans from another era who go along ? but most young 'uns have a million other options to go to.
The product on offer has to offer something; the days of blind loyalty are going. It's like if Everton were a restaurant, after the meal you say to your mate "That was another shit meal, see you in 2 weeks..." Aye, I'm afraid them days are gone.
On another note, Bobby Thomas is another one using the term 'internet warrior' as a dig at people who ain't marching. I reckon this could the wrong website to use it on. I say that cos I reckon most people on here are not in Liverpool but spread across the world, so it makes it a bit difficult to march... that's why we're internet warriors.
Matt & Bobby, I know what you're saying but surely Bill has an estate agent mate that could provide a glowing description.
But regarding 'limited accessibility' didn't we used to regularly get crowds of 50,000? And a record of 70,000? Not so limited then... so why is it now at only 32,000?
But regarding 'limited accessibility' didn't we used to regularly get crowds of 50,000? And a record of 70,000? Not so limited then... so why is it now at only 32,000?
Alan #641, your post is difficult to read but concerning LFC and the Council positions over KD wasn't it a case of LFC were going to keep quiet about LCC backing us in exchange for them getting permission to build their new stadium on Stanley Park?
And likewise, we were not rasing any objection to that because of LCC backing us over KD???
And likewise, we were not rasing any objection to that because of LCC backing us over KD???
Groundshare ? the best option for both Merseyside clubs to build a business case that could attract corporate investors, plus that would stand a chance of attracting regeneration funding.
It is not just BK's asking price that is the issue, it is also the cost of infrastructure, debt and future investment that makes us uninvestable for anyone with an ounce of business sense.
Hate to even write it, but with a groundshare deal in place, the club's saleability would be transformed.
It is not just BK's asking price that is the issue, it is also the cost of infrastructure, debt and future investment that makes us uninvestable for anyone with an ounce of business sense.
Hate to even write it, but with a groundshare deal in place, the club's saleability would be transformed.
Steve # 690,
I agree that a groundshare would be the most sensible outcome for both clubs.
The fact is though, we are so far behind Liverpool in commercial deals, sponsorship, crowds etc, it soon becomes unworkable. They will not want to dilute their brand by sharing with us. Their owners may not know anything about strikers, but they have just signed a massive sponsorship deal. Their commercial revenues will soon outstrip our entire turnover ? that's how far apart we are.
All this before you even get to dealing with the idiots on our board!
I agree that a groundshare would be the most sensible outcome for both clubs.
The fact is though, we are so far behind Liverpool in commercial deals, sponsorship, crowds etc, it soon becomes unworkable. They will not want to dilute their brand by sharing with us. Their owners may not know anything about strikers, but they have just signed a massive sponsorship deal. Their commercial revenues will soon outstrip our entire turnover ? that's how far apart we are.
All this before you even get to dealing with the idiots on our board!
Depressing
I fear Bobby Thomas is spot on when he says that the vast majority of us can't be bothered.
We can laugh at them across the park but at least they showed passion when they protested. We can't even organise a series of protests, let alone turn up.
You get what you deserve?
I fear Bobby Thomas is spot on when he says that the vast majority of us can't be bothered.
We can laugh at them across the park but at least they showed passion when they protested. We can't even organise a series of protests, let alone turn up.
You get what you deserve?
Bobby is spot on. The Wolves protest, we were 17th playing awful football and that week the emails were leaked. Quite simply the turnout was woeful. What made me laugh though was when passing the Oak people were putting down their pints and clapping. Why not just join the protest march?
The old "I agree we need change but I don't like BU" thing is nothing more than a cop out as far as I'm concerned for "to be honest I can't be bothered"
If indeed a takeover takes place then that is great, for me though I want Kenwright and the board shown up for what they really are.....
Sooner or later, they will blow themselves up because frankly they're not very clever.
The old "I agree we need change but I don't like BU" thing is nothing more than a cop out as far as I'm concerned for "to be honest I can't be bothered"
If indeed a takeover takes place then that is great, for me though I want Kenwright and the board shown up for what they really are.....
Sooner or later, they will blow themselves up because frankly they're not very clever.
Alan (641) - "My contact informed me that the sale of EFC has a caveat attached to it that any new owner must invest a serious amount of cash in to the club after the share purchase, and this money must be shown at point of sale and that?s why the bids fail".
Did your contact explain why the caveat? I can see it as a tool to chase away bottom-feeders, but cannot think of another good reason. What business is it of sellers how purchasers invest in their purchase?
Did your contact explain why the caveat? I can see it as a tool to chase away bottom-feeders, but cannot think of another good reason. What business is it of sellers how purchasers invest in their purchase?
James (#718), I sort of agree but I think what they are trying to do is ensure that the buyer has sufficient funds to invest in the club. However, it is not for the buyer to state they must spend this much on new stadium, this much on players etc. (which would be kind of ironic given their own personal input), and also, what's to stop a buyer showing he has £0.5 billion in liquidity, but not investing?
Also, I doubt Alan's contact would divulge how much is being sought for the shareholding, and if it's the original "TBH" shares, but it's easy to see how a combination of caveats, dodgy hangers on and their projects, and the asking price could easily dissuade someone.
Also, I doubt Alan's contact would divulge how much is being sought for the shareholding, and if it's the original "TBH" shares, but it's easy to see how a combination of caveats, dodgy hangers on and their projects, and the asking price could easily dissuade someone.
"Do You Care About EFC?".....
"Sort of... maybe, as long as X-Factor isn't on."
A few hours perusal of postings on EFC forums would have saved the author a lot of time and angst. The days of caring in the way he alludes to are gone.
As long as we're not involved in relegation every excuse known to man is lapped up by the majority of fans even those who pay good money to go.
It's public knowledge, the lies and incompetence from this board, yet even in posts on this very thread, people are effectively saying, "I don't wanna know, ignorance is bliss, please delude me."
I've got to the stage where I honestly think relegation is the only thing that will wake this club.
"Sort of... maybe, as long as X-Factor isn't on."
A few hours perusal of postings on EFC forums would have saved the author a lot of time and angst. The days of caring in the way he alludes to are gone.
As long as we're not involved in relegation every excuse known to man is lapped up by the majority of fans even those who pay good money to go.
It's public knowledge, the lies and incompetence from this board, yet even in posts on this very thread, people are effectively saying, "I don't wanna know, ignorance is bliss, please delude me."
I've got to the stage where I honestly think relegation is the only thing that will wake this club.
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452 Posted 03/05/2012 at 16:40:39
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The number gets bigger every time.
And in every case they disappear without trace.
Are they real? Or is it true that the club is in fact not for sale? Or is the price so high, everyone says "Ridiculous" and walks away?
Something very fishy...