Season 2011-12
The Mail Bag
Attack! Attack! Attack! Attack! Attack!
54 Comments: Amid all the schadenfreude over that thoroughly enjoyable Liverpool loss at Wembley, it's easy to overlook the fact that Arsenal vs Norwich earlier in the day was one of the most entertaining games I have watched all season.
I don't often get into games Everton aren't playing in but this was two teams absolutely committed to attack and you just couldn't look away. Absorbing, entertaining.... just magic.
When will managers learn that the primary focus should be to entertain the public with attacking play? We go to matches to enjoy the football. We go seeking catharsis. Yes we want our side to win but we also want to see drama and action and spectacle.
I wish I could sit Moyes down in front of that match and force him to watch two sides who wanted nothing more that to score goals and to win. If every team committed to attack like that stadiums would be full every week and the TV audience would double.
Jack Molloy, Posted 05/05/2012 at 19:23:58
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I understand the sentiment but David Moyes has a job just like anyone else and as such is answerable to his boss, Kenwright, whose primary concern is staying far away from relegation. It is up to Moyes to do this in the best way he knows how and that usually involves effectiveness before aesthetic, though from his comment earlier this season its clear he would prefer where possible to offer both.
Sam, according to Gordon Glegg, Moyes IS the boss.
Jack, couldn't agree more.
Jack, couldn't agree more.
Sam
Moyes might answerable to his boss but we're his customers and the fall in attendances show we're not happy.The drop wont be all down to entertainment but on the whole he doesnt make Goodison a fun day out.
And I dont agree keeping us from relegation is his primary concern,we're not that bad aside.
Moyes might answerable to his boss but we're his customers and the fall in attendances show we're not happy.The drop wont be all down to entertainment but on the whole he doesnt make Goodison a fun day out.
And I dont agree keeping us from relegation is his primary concern,we're not that bad aside.
I watched the game as well. It was a good game, and interesting on many levels. Empty seats, histrionics from Wenger, their Polish keeper having a mare, Ruddy performing well, and maybe a chance they'll come back for Jags after all! Well maybe not.
Paul, i see your point but the way i see it we are Kenwrights customers, he runs the club that gets our money and Moyes is an employer of his.
If Bill really wanted us to play beautiful football then Moyes would not be in charge. The reality is Bill wants someone who gets as many league points as possible for as little money spent and that is something Moyes does VERY well.
If Bill really wanted us to play beautiful football then Moyes would not be in charge. The reality is Bill wants someone who gets as many league points as possible for as little money spent and that is something Moyes does VERY well.
Seem to think that Keegan tried something similar at Newcastle !
He didn't last long tho'. Regularly scored 5 let in 6 or something of that order.
Does that sound a bit like, it's not the winning but the taking part that counts?
I do believe that TWebbers have been avid haters of that policy - or am I barking up the wrong tree.
He didn't last long tho'. Regularly scored 5 let in 6 or something of that order.
Does that sound a bit like, it's not the winning but the taking part that counts?
I do believe that TWebbers have been avid haters of that policy - or am I barking up the wrong tree.
We seem to have a side that can attack. Let's hope we keep them all.
Bob Willis
I'd be delighted if someone come here and done a Keegan their resurgence including splendid redeveloped ground and 50k attendances is based upon his work.
The fact he went nuts is neither here nor there.
What he did at Newcastle is EXACTLY what we need.
I'd be delighted if someone come here and done a Keegan their resurgence including splendid redeveloped ground and 50k attendances is based upon his work.
The fact he went nuts is neither here nor there.
What he did at Newcastle is EXACTLY what we need.
Bob 71
Yeah Keegan did do that at Newcastle but they put entertainment over results.
If you took took two thirds of Keegans tactics and a third of Moyes I think that would be a good mix.
Yeah Keegan did do that at Newcastle but they put entertainment over results.
If you took took two thirds of Keegans tactics and a third of Moyes I think that would be a good mix.
Where are Norwich in the league? Plus Lambert didn't win at Arsenal did he? He only drew, which automatically means he's a rubbish manager, regardless of the performance. Am I just imagining a game when we went to Emirates, matched them all over the park, and Pienaar chipped the keeper with the goal of the month?
Yes, the last year-and-a-half (before January of this season) has been pretty bad style wise, but don't retrospectively transmit that onto the entirety of Moyes's reign. We've played some great football at times and had some of the best players seen at Everton since the 80s in Arteta and Pienaar.
Do you think Chelsea fans care that they're not entertained by attacking football when they're gathering up the FA Cup and have a Champions League Final? Their performance in the Barca semi-final was amazing: negative, defensive and without a hint of attacking intent but you can't say it wasn't entertaining to watch.
Obviously you can't do that every game and eveyrone wants to see goals but in the pursuit of attacking football you can't just forget that defending is 50% of the game as well. It also comes down to the players at your disposal.
Earlier in the season, we didn't have many attacking options so we played for points in a negative manner. Now that we have more forward options, we've been banging a ton of goals in.
Yes, the last year-and-a-half (before January of this season) has been pretty bad style wise, but don't retrospectively transmit that onto the entirety of Moyes's reign. We've played some great football at times and had some of the best players seen at Everton since the 80s in Arteta and Pienaar.
Do you think Chelsea fans care that they're not entertained by attacking football when they're gathering up the FA Cup and have a Champions League Final? Their performance in the Barca semi-final was amazing: negative, defensive and without a hint of attacking intent but you can't say it wasn't entertaining to watch.
Obviously you can't do that every game and eveyrone wants to see goals but in the pursuit of attacking football you can't just forget that defending is 50% of the game as well. It also comes down to the players at your disposal.
Earlier in the season, we didn't have many attacking options so we played for points in a negative manner. Now that we have more forward options, we've been banging a ton of goals in.
James 85
Your probably right that Chelsea fans dont care if their not being entertained if there picking up cups but Moyes doesnt deliver cups.
I think the standard of play these last few years has been poor with a few bright spots,even when Pienaar and Arteta were in the same side.
Your probably right that Chelsea fans dont care if their not being entertained if there picking up cups but Moyes doesnt deliver cups.
I think the standard of play these last few years has been poor with a few bright spots,even when Pienaar and Arteta were in the same side.
Was that the goal by Pienaar that was lais off by an amazing pass near the left touch line near halfway from Tiny Tim? Should have been goal of the season for the pure class that oozed out of that move!!
While I think we would all agree that attacking football is more pleasing on the eye, a couple of recent examples should be reason enough to make sure the defensive side is taken care of properly.
First our game at Old Trafford which looks very much like it could cost Utd the league. If they had been a bit more defensive and shut the game out rather than throw men forward looking for a fifth the league would be over. I have to say however our attacking deserved something that day.
Second the Arsenal game that Jack mentions today. Not being able to defend could cost Arsenal a place in the champions league. I'm sure Arsene will be even more of a whinger if that is the case.
First our game at Old Trafford which looks very much like it could cost Utd the league. If they had been a bit more defensive and shut the game out rather than throw men forward looking for a fifth the league would be over. I have to say however our attacking deserved something that day.
Second the Arsenal game that Jack mentions today. Not being able to defend could cost Arsenal a place in the champions league. I'm sure Arsene will be even more of a whinger if that is the case.
Joe
Utd's attitude of looking to finish teams off has got them where they are now, yes it will backfire at times but on the whole it has served them well.
Utd's attitude of looking to finish teams off has got them where they are now, yes it will backfire at times but on the whole it has served them well.
Paul, while I agree to a certain point. Utd teams of the recent past had the nous to know when to shut up shop. Most teams that win championships have that in common, hence City bringing on De Jong the other night.
Its not as pretty to watch but Mancini seems to know when its needed.
Its not as pretty to watch but Mancini seems to know when its needed.
When will managers learn that the primary focus should be to entertain the public with attacking play?
Probably when a run of losses doesn't lead to being sacked, or when you can drop down a division every now and then without worrying that the club will never recover. Until then the PRIMARY focus of all sane managers will be to secure enough points to ensure survival in the Premier League.
The only argument is whether you can do this and still play attractive attacking football without the financial ability to pay the top transfer fees and top wages. Arsenal are still (just about) one of the top four clubs in England and Norwich will need to show the same spirit and consistency over a number of seasons before they are hailed as a team to emulate.
I have been on Toffeeweb before questioning the conservative nature of our play, but the game mentioned is not a good one to hold up as an example. As Joe McPartland has stated, Arsenal needed to win to ensure third place was theirs to lose and the fact that they haven't could be disastrous for them if Chelsea take out the 4th place ECL qualification. Norwich play some good football on the break and always pose a threat, but there was no pressure on them at all today. You could easily equate this game to ours at Old Trafford two weeks ago.
We need pacy, skilful players to play the fast-flowing counter-attacking style. At the moment we don't really have any and they will cost money to bring in unless they are very raw talent (it would be great if we could unearth someone of the ability / attitude of James McLean) or have dodgy temperaments (don't want that disappointment again in a hurry!).
Until the required players are brought in (on permanent contracts) don't blame the manager for wanting security more than glorious failure, but he should still get the players to bang the crosses into the danger areas at the earliest opportunity and take the opportunity to shoot whenever possible.
Probably when a run of losses doesn't lead to being sacked, or when you can drop down a division every now and then without worrying that the club will never recover. Until then the PRIMARY focus of all sane managers will be to secure enough points to ensure survival in the Premier League.
The only argument is whether you can do this and still play attractive attacking football without the financial ability to pay the top transfer fees and top wages. Arsenal are still (just about) one of the top four clubs in England and Norwich will need to show the same spirit and consistency over a number of seasons before they are hailed as a team to emulate.
I have been on Toffeeweb before questioning the conservative nature of our play, but the game mentioned is not a good one to hold up as an example. As Joe McPartland has stated, Arsenal needed to win to ensure third place was theirs to lose and the fact that they haven't could be disastrous for them if Chelsea take out the 4th place ECL qualification. Norwich play some good football on the break and always pose a threat, but there was no pressure on them at all today. You could easily equate this game to ours at Old Trafford two weeks ago.
We need pacy, skilful players to play the fast-flowing counter-attacking style. At the moment we don't really have any and they will cost money to bring in unless they are very raw talent (it would be great if we could unearth someone of the ability / attitude of James McLean) or have dodgy temperaments (don't want that disappointment again in a hurry!).
Until the required players are brought in (on permanent contracts) don't blame the manager for wanting security more than glorious failure, but he should still get the players to bang the crosses into the danger areas at the earliest opportunity and take the opportunity to shoot whenever possible.
Absolutely brillliant game, ıt had everything you would want to see in a Premier League game. But unfortunately, I will remember it as one of the worst examples of refereeing I have ever seen. Three of the most blatant penalties I have ever seen and Naughton gave none of them.
Remember when Clattenburg didn't give us that one against the RS.... well, the Arsenal fans will always rememeber Naughton not giving a penalty when Van Persie got poleaxed from behind with an open goal in front of him. Amazing!!
Remember when Clattenburg didn't give us that one against the RS.... well, the Arsenal fans will always rememeber Naughton not giving a penalty when Van Persie got poleaxed from behind with an open goal in front of him. Amazing!!
Naturally I'm mostly interested in Moyes but I think the argument applies to the majority of managers. Most managers go out determined not to lose by any means necessary. That leads to some very dull football.
If teams made attacking football a priority, gates would rise, the tv audience would increase and revenue would go up too. Chairmen would be pleased by that, not ready to fire managers.
The fact is that there is no cause-and-effect relationship whatsoever between playing to win, that is, playing to score goals, and losing as some are suggesting - illogically in my view. Every match is still going to end up in a win, a loss or a draw whether the style of play is positive or negative.
If teams made attacking football a priority, gates would rise, the tv audience would increase and revenue would go up too. Chairmen would be pleased by that, not ready to fire managers.
The fact is that there is no cause-and-effect relationship whatsoever between playing to win, that is, playing to score goals, and losing as some are suggesting - illogically in my view. Every match is still going to end up in a win, a loss or a draw whether the style of play is positive or negative.
Anyone responded to my "Toxteth" post. I apologize for not responding last week.
I've posted my responses today.
I've posted my responses today.
Jack, many teams emphasise attacking play and suffer because of it, particularly promoted teams. Blackpool last year but also Bolton and Sunderland played open football - at the expense of their defense. It cost them, obviously Bolton and Sunderland are still at the top, but they dropped like a stone last season.
Theres a difference between going for the win, and throwing all your eggs into the 'attacking' basket. The balance is key, but so many teams get it wrong, they have some great performances but get found out over a season
When Moyes has a decent squad, which we have since January he gets it right. most of the time. He wont entertain any midfielder who cant defend. Attacking football without due care on defense is naive and risky because good teams will always exploit it. It happens again and again to all but the very best teams.
In any case I can also appreciate someone like Johnny H, a class defender doing what he does best.
Theres a difference between going for the win, and throwing all your eggs into the 'attacking' basket. The balance is key, but so many teams get it wrong, they have some great performances but get found out over a season
When Moyes has a decent squad, which we have since January he gets it right. most of the time. He wont entertain any midfielder who cant defend. Attacking football without due care on defense is naive and risky because good teams will always exploit it. It happens again and again to all but the very best teams.
In any case I can also appreciate someone like Johnny H, a class defender doing what he does best.
Why do some posters see one decent game and ten automatically suggest that this is the way that Moyes/Everton should play?
What about the last few games where we have been going for it more....because we now have a striker who can score without taking several touches and a winger who is skillful and also a player that allows our most expensive player to try and dictate games....
Wigan beat MAn U, Arsenal and the Shite....should we play like them and lose 8 on the bounce?
What about the last few games where we have been going for it more....because we now have a striker who can score without taking several touches and a winger who is skillful and also a player that allows our most expensive player to try and dictate games....
Wigan beat MAn U, Arsenal and the Shite....should we play like them and lose 8 on the bounce?
I think the sentiment is admirable and there's def more room for attacking football.
However, from a results perspective there are bigger question marks. Arsenal for all their flair could be outside the CL places this year on the back of results like this - a disaster for them considering the players and budgets.
Norwich meanwhile have had a successful season in staying up but will finish 13/14th. Neither of these strikes me as a great model to follow.
Instead I think we should be looking closely at hat's being achieved without (previously) star names at Newcaustle. Good buys (funded by sale of a supposed hero) team spirit and an attacking but not reckless tactical approach has left them fighting or 3/4th.
However, from a results perspective there are bigger question marks. Arsenal for all their flair could be outside the CL places this year on the back of results like this - a disaster for them considering the players and budgets.
Norwich meanwhile have had a successful season in staying up but will finish 13/14th. Neither of these strikes me as a great model to follow.
Instead I think we should be looking closely at hat's being achieved without (previously) star names at Newcaustle. Good buys (funded by sale of a supposed hero) team spirit and an attacking but not reckless tactical approach has left them fighting or 3/4th.
The debate over entertainment vs. pragmatism has been going on since I?ve been watching football, and whether you like it or not the Roundheads will always triumph over the Cavaliers. Over the years there have been teams that are exciting to watch and sweep away all the defensive thinking, my favourite team of all time is the Dutch 1974 and total football that has been reincarnated in the shape of Barca.
But they always get done by clever managers (the special one for example) and their equally clever and usually unwatchable, defensive systems. Both Wenger & Ferguson are cavaliers, but how many times have you seen Man U & Arsenal get done in Europe by well drilled teams.
Sadly all out attacking football can only be successful over a long(ish) period if you have a team that is made up of Cruyff , Neeskins, Arie Haan, van Hanegem etc, or Messi, Iniesta, that is needed to sustain inventiveness need to literally body swerve negative tactics.
But they always get done by clever managers (the special one for example) and their equally clever and usually unwatchable, defensive systems. Both Wenger & Ferguson are cavaliers, but how many times have you seen Man U & Arsenal get done in Europe by well drilled teams.
Sadly all out attacking football can only be successful over a long(ish) period if you have a team that is made up of Cruyff , Neeskins, Arie Haan, van Hanegem etc, or Messi, Iniesta, that is needed to sustain inventiveness need to literally body swerve negative tactics.
How about an extra ½-point for the aggregate score?
Just as an aside to my earlier point regarding Arsenal, if they don't get champions league football next season, can you see RVP hanging around?
good question joe 179, reckon we can get him on the cheap?
I'm often offered corporate tickets for the Emirates and was at the game yesterday. I have to say Norwich deserved everything they got and more besides.
They started with Holt and Simeon Jackson up top and constantly got runners beyond the ball and into the box from midfield. I was seriously impressed with Jonny Howson in midfield and wish we had the cash to get him from Leeds in January.
The thing is... their success in my opinion was predominantly a result of having fast players who could get forward and get back very quickly. Elliott Bennett and Simeon Jackson are lightening quick. Even though Norwich came to attack, the result wouldn't have been possible without that pace.
For me, pace up top is something we are seriously lacking. Today at Wolves showed how keen we are to go through the middle with Pienaar and without Baines. We need to sign wingers with pace (Donovan) if we are to have a chance of beating a top team when it matters.
They started with Holt and Simeon Jackson up top and constantly got runners beyond the ball and into the box from midfield. I was seriously impressed with Jonny Howson in midfield and wish we had the cash to get him from Leeds in January.
The thing is... their success in my opinion was predominantly a result of having fast players who could get forward and get back very quickly. Elliott Bennett and Simeon Jackson are lightening quick. Even though Norwich came to attack, the result wouldn't have been possible without that pace.
For me, pace up top is something we are seriously lacking. Today at Wolves showed how keen we are to go through the middle with Pienaar and without Baines. We need to sign wingers with pace (Donovan) if we are to have a chance of beating a top team when it matters.
For Davey Boy every season starts with with 38 points in the bank. All he has to do is DEFEND them at all costs then hope to nick a few lucky wins to ensure SAFETY. Which is why he sends out the teams with the mental attitude he does . Sometimes the Gods smile on him and us long suffering supporters see an entertaining game - but these are far too few and too far between.
Peter B are you in a parallel universe? Whatever Moyes good and bad qualities, his record in league finishes is impressive.
So how do our league positions translate to just 'ensuring safety'? It doesn't stack up. All those lucky goals recently too eh?
Get a grip.
So how do our league positions translate to just 'ensuring safety'? It doesn't stack up. All those lucky goals recently too eh?
Get a grip.
John Ford we are currently 7th with 53 points 33 behind the league leaders and with a distinct possibility of finishing 9th . That's Davey Boys starting 38 plus 13. So if you think that is acceptable considering the pathetic DROSS we were forced to suffer during the first half of this season ( and in most recent seasons too) then more fool you. The pill would have been easier to swallow if we had memories of good entertaining games and important match victories, such as the derbies and cup games against the RS, to warm our hearts but BOTTLER Davey Boy is incapable of delivering such. With Moyes We're Bust we will NEVER win anything with a man like him in charge.
BTW pleased as I am that the Red Shite lost at Wembley at least their supporters can point out that they went down with a FIGHT and not with a WHIMPER like Davey Boy ensured we did in the SF.
It the pathetic DROSS performances that Dour Dire Davey Boy selected, trained, tactically inspired and motivated teams produce that gets right up my nose.
It the pathetic DROSS performances that Dour Dire Davey Boy selected, trained, tactically inspired and motivated teams produce that gets right up my nose.
Peter the RS were terrible at Wembley, just because they turned up for the last half an hour rather than the first half an hour (like we did in the semi) doesn't take anything away form what was a tactically inept negative perfromance from Dalglish. If they hadn't of been gifted a goal from nothing (like in the semi) then they would have whimpered out. As it is they had their head of steam up with 60 million pounds worth of strike force on and oculd only really force Cech into one save (good as it was) against a Chelsea team who were clearly knackered from their midweek game. We've been bad for a long period this season but there's a reaosn they're below us in the table.
Peter Barry 298; That's exactly it!
How many of these Groundhog games have we had?...How many of these Groundhog seasons.
This is Moyeses default setting, he has to be stone cold certain before attempting anything expansive.
Sometimes he may poke his head out like Pauxatawny Phil and we get a little spring time, but how many times over the season does he see one snow flake and pfht! back in his hole again.
He is Mr 50%, all his seasons are 50% seasons, 04-05 textbook Moyes 50%. The actual way the % is made up varies, a good 1st quarter then poor then good the the Imaginary safety line is passed.
'Crivens, see you Roundy, forty points in the bag the noo ye ken, there ARE 3 teams worse than us...onward and... well onwards anyhoo.'
I still remain unconvinced that he has EVER know what his best 11 is or was, or how to play them, at anytime in the last 10yrs ( or to give it it's correct title...10 f'kin years )
The trouble is, his keep it tight, ( enough acronyms ) this % footy, when done to the extent he does it IS effective if you want anything above 17th and shows that you can go a long way playing the % game.
As for rivals / replacements. Until one of the past present or future attacking flavours of the the season gets consistantly better at their methods than Moyes is at his, we will be left with 2 unprovables.
1) Moyes goes and the 'R' word will follow as sure as day follows night.
2) Any Attacking Flavour of the Season, could, with this squad, have put us in the position Newcastle are now. ( yes I know that Moyes put it together, but the Attacking Flavours have also put together decent squads )...also if they do get better at their methods than Moyes is at his, they will be in the top 4 and thus beyond us.
Yeah I can hear some say but what if, why risk it?
Short version;The last 3 Derby's
Medium Version; Most of this season.
Long Version; TEN FUCKIN YEARS.
How many of these Groundhog games have we had?...How many of these Groundhog seasons.
This is Moyeses default setting, he has to be stone cold certain before attempting anything expansive.
Sometimes he may poke his head out like Pauxatawny Phil and we get a little spring time, but how many times over the season does he see one snow flake and pfht! back in his hole again.
He is Mr 50%, all his seasons are 50% seasons, 04-05 textbook Moyes 50%. The actual way the % is made up varies, a good 1st quarter then poor then good the the Imaginary safety line is passed.
'Crivens, see you Roundy, forty points in the bag the noo ye ken, there ARE 3 teams worse than us...onward and... well onwards anyhoo.'
I still remain unconvinced that he has EVER know what his best 11 is or was, or how to play them, at anytime in the last 10yrs ( or to give it it's correct title...10 f'kin years )
The trouble is, his keep it tight, ( enough acronyms ) this % footy, when done to the extent he does it IS effective if you want anything above 17th and shows that you can go a long way playing the % game.
As for rivals / replacements. Until one of the past present or future attacking flavours of the the season gets consistantly better at their methods than Moyes is at his, we will be left with 2 unprovables.
1) Moyes goes and the 'R' word will follow as sure as day follows night.
2) Any Attacking Flavour of the Season, could, with this squad, have put us in the position Newcastle are now. ( yes I know that Moyes put it together, but the Attacking Flavours have also put together decent squads )...also if they do get better at their methods than Moyes is at his, they will be in the top 4 and thus beyond us.
Yeah I can hear some say but what if, why risk it?
Short version;The last 3 Derby's
Medium Version; Most of this season.
Long Version; TEN FUCKIN YEARS.
Peter you are the dour one! I never hear you have a single positive thing to say about anything!
If moyes finishes 7th or even 10th then he will be doing what most league managers try to do which is to finish higher up the table than their available resources (wage bill and transfer spend) would have suggested.
If moyes finishes 7th or even 10th then he will be doing what most league managers try to do which is to finish higher up the table than their available resources (wage bill and transfer spend) would have suggested.
Derek i don't see your point. YOu're complaining that his % style is only good if we want anything above 17th (isn't that were everyone wants to be at the very least?). Also is 04-05 vintage handbook got us into the Champions League spot something Newcastle now look uncertain to achieve and only Tottenham have managed it since. Anyone would think we've watched 10 years of coming 15th every season or something, never mind regular European qualification and a cup final. I can understand the arguments about never winning a trophy, but complaining that his percentage game only ever nudges us above 40 points each season making us better off than three worse teams is just not backed up by any shred of evidence.
Peter 311; or, if I make so bold, Dave Wilson MkII. You don't see my point... no sh*t sherlock.
And YOUR evidence that a change will be for the worst is????
It ain't what you do,it's the way you do it.
If financial factors mean 7th is the best we can do then lets do it in style.
And YOUR evidence that a change will be for the worst is????
It ain't what you do,it's the way you do it.
If financial factors mean 7th is the best we can do then lets do it in style.
Why do some posters act like arseholes because somebody has seen some aspect of another sides play that could work for us and wanted to talk about it?
Even if Norwich dont always play that way the game can still be used as a good example of how pace, movement and mixing up ranges of passing can trouble any side.
For me we would have twatted Arsenal had the disallowed goal stood and they are no longer a really good side.
Even if Norwich dont always play that way the game can still be used as a good example of how pace, movement and mixing up ranges of passing can trouble any side.
For me we would have twatted Arsenal had the disallowed goal stood and they are no longer a really good side.
Not really dour Sam but it seems like I am the one who can read Dire Daveys mind and the minds of those who follow him blindly and uncritically too.
This criticism just gets more naive by the day, Hot on the heels of claiming Moyes is responsible for developing youth we have this "He doesnt know his best eleven" . .fuck me.You guys must be stuck in some sort of time warp. BEST ELEVEN ? ? ?
Goodison will be sold out next week and at the end of the game the Evertonians will rise to Moyes.
Now I know that wont sit well with all those claims that "EVERYONE" thinks he`s crap, but you can be very certain thats EXACTLY what will happen.
Not one of those applauding will think he`s a miracle worker, but as knowledgeable matchgoers they will recognise he has once again done a very decent job under very difficult circumstances. Don't just take my word for it watch for yourselves. A win on Saturday will see an improvement on Last seasons points tally despite the fire sale and upheaval last summer. Sure the six teams above us have scored more goals this season but they all paid tens of millions for their strikers. . .and even then we outscored most of them in the latter stages of the season after 5-6 mill was made available to Moyes in January Go figure
Goodison will be sold out next week and at the end of the game the Evertonians will rise to Moyes.
Now I know that wont sit well with all those claims that "EVERYONE" thinks he`s crap, but you can be very certain thats EXACTLY what will happen.
Not one of those applauding will think he`s a miracle worker, but as knowledgeable matchgoers they will recognise he has once again done a very decent job under very difficult circumstances. Don't just take my word for it watch for yourselves. A win on Saturday will see an improvement on Last seasons points tally despite the fire sale and upheaval last summer. Sure the six teams above us have scored more goals this season but they all paid tens of millions for their strikers. . .and even then we outscored most of them in the latter stages of the season after 5-6 mill was made available to Moyes in January Go figure
Peter Barry (358) The Special One.
Bizarre!
Conviction in your opinions is one thing but when you start attributing mystical powers to yourself that you think no-one else has it is surely time to talk to someone other than your current social circle in some kind of professional capacity.
You don't wear turquoise tracksuits by any chance do you Peter?
Bizarre!
Conviction in your opinions is one thing but when you start attributing mystical powers to yourself that you think no-one else has it is surely time to talk to someone other than your current social circle in some kind of professional capacity.
You don't wear turquoise tracksuits by any chance do you Peter?
Dave 403
I doubt it will be Moyes everyone will be standing up for,it will be for the team as well.I would not necessary say it means everyone is happy either.Evertonians tend to be less vocal about their anger at the match compared to other clubs.
I will be giving the team a round of applause (not Moyes) and i'm far from happy with what i've seen this year.
I doubt it will be Moyes everyone will be standing up for,it will be for the team as well.I would not necessary say it means everyone is happy either.Evertonians tend to be less vocal about their anger at the match compared to other clubs.
I will be giving the team a round of applause (not Moyes) and i'm far from happy with what i've seen this year.
One aspect of the start of next season that is going to be intresting, is the approach to it by Moyes. The arguements in defence of his football, is that we don't have the players, and that we needed someone to put the ball in the back of the net, well, we now have that someone, and if we can add Pienaar, thats a huge bonus.
We have proved that we can play football in the last few games, I wonder though, next season, will it will be another case of just getting to that magic '40 pts' by any means?
We have proved that we can play football in the last few games, I wonder though, next season, will it will be another case of just getting to that magic '40 pts' by any means?
Paul David
You will get your chance to make the disitinction, if the past few seasons are anything to go by Moyes will walk well behind the players.
The past couple of months will ensure players will get a decent reception.
But the manager will get a different, better one.
It amazes me that we have fans who genuinely believe our manager makes life as difficult as he can for himself untill he gets to 38 points . .then suddenly takes the easy route and accumilates another 18 points in the remaining games.
Still. The guy who pissed off to play in a tournament the other side of the world in the middle of an injury crisis 18 months ago and has barely had a decent game since (Sure that was his right, but dont make whiney excuses for him)
AND the captain who can`t pass, head/control a ball or beat an egg are both Everton "Legends"
Perhaps you guys think, we should have persevered with Saha and left Pienaar and Yelavic where they where, we`d have still got the points right ?
Because it has nothing to do with the quality of player and . .err everything to do with the manager not developing youth or knowing his "best eleven"
You will get your chance to make the disitinction, if the past few seasons are anything to go by Moyes will walk well behind the players.
The past couple of months will ensure players will get a decent reception.
But the manager will get a different, better one.
It amazes me that we have fans who genuinely believe our manager makes life as difficult as he can for himself untill he gets to 38 points . .then suddenly takes the easy route and accumilates another 18 points in the remaining games.
Still. The guy who pissed off to play in a tournament the other side of the world in the middle of an injury crisis 18 months ago and has barely had a decent game since (Sure that was his right, but dont make whiney excuses for him)
AND the captain who can`t pass, head/control a ball or beat an egg are both Everton "Legends"
Perhaps you guys think, we should have persevered with Saha and left Pienaar and Yelavic where they where, we`d have still got the points right ?
Because it has nothing to do with the quality of player and . .err everything to do with the manager not developing youth or knowing his "best eleven"
Dave 481
Well if Moyes is walking well behind the players I wont know what kind of reception he got because I will have left by the time he gets round so you will have to let me know.
I dont think Moyes is a stupid man though,I can not see him doing a lap of honour on his own unless he is ablivious to how a lot of fans feel about him now.In the past few years people have not been happy with his style but not so much his results.This time a lot of people (me included) are angry and dont care about he has done in the past,nothing will make up for Anfield and Wembley.
Well if Moyes is walking well behind the players I wont know what kind of reception he got because I will have left by the time he gets round so you will have to let me know.
I dont think Moyes is a stupid man though,I can not see him doing a lap of honour on his own unless he is ablivious to how a lot of fans feel about him now.In the past few years people have not been happy with his style but not so much his results.This time a lot of people (me included) are angry and dont care about he has done in the past,nothing will make up for Anfield and Wembley.
Dave, David Moyes will get a terrific reception at the end of Sundays game. Seventh place on a shoestring, plaudits from his peers, praised by the media, admired by the supporters of every other club, Decent bloke, could walk into a better job any time he wants, sorry, that last bit wasn't true.
Dave, Moyes gets lauded every year for saving us from a crisis of his own making. Why do we start badly year after year after year? What is your answer to that? Much is down to Kenwright but the fact that every November we look like relegation fodder is down to the coach.
He makes us ill and then he is praised for saving us. There is a medical term for it that I can't quite spell.
Dave, Moyes gets lauded every year for saving us from a crisis of his own making. Why do we start badly year after year after year? What is your answer to that? Much is down to Kenwright but the fact that every November we look like relegation fodder is down to the coach.
He makes us ill and then he is praised for saving us. There is a medical term for it that I can't quite spell.
Interesting insight from Peter, probably explains why we are crap in the first half of the season before January. It could be Moyes deliberately sets out a mind sapping team to claw 38 points, before trying out anything adventurous, which comes around after January.
We can't get off to a flying start each season if all you're doing is to first play for 38 points with soul destroying, numbing tactics. Negative tactics will only help us trudge along point by point as we slowly accumulate 38.
That's why there's no point in wasted gnashing of teeth before January. That is the Moyes bluepoint season after season.
We can't get off to a flying start each season if all you're doing is to first play for 38 points with soul destroying, numbing tactics. Negative tactics will only help us trudge along point by point as we slowly accumulate 38.
That's why there's no point in wasted gnashing of teeth before January. That is the Moyes bluepoint season after season.
Dave the mind reader.
He will get nowhere near the continuous rousing reception he used to get.
Also as Paul says most will give the players and manager a bit of applause out of habit and tradition. This has been happening every year I can remember, even when we were absolute crap.
You seem to think you can speak for the season ticket holders en masse when almost all the ones I know and speak to, including me, are sick to the back teeth of him and his white flag approach.
I can only speak for Evertonians I know but most would be more than happy for next Sunday to be the last time he sets foot on our soil.
He will get nowhere near the continuous rousing reception he used to get.
Also as Paul says most will give the players and manager a bit of applause out of habit and tradition. This has been happening every year I can remember, even when we were absolute crap.
You seem to think you can speak for the season ticket holders en masse when almost all the ones I know and speak to, including me, are sick to the back teeth of him and his white flag approach.
I can only speak for Evertonians I know but most would be more than happy for next Sunday to be the last time he sets foot on our soil.
Stephen
I know this club and Moyes WILL get one hell of a reception.
I'll bet none of the people you "claim" want him gone will be chanting "Moyes Out" or booing him ? and let's be very clear here: if that's what you/your mates think, you should be ashamed if you don't.
Tell you what, Stephen: Why don't you bring a "Moyes Out" banner? I'd deffo buy you a bev if you did...
And, let's face it, I'd have no trouble finding you as you would be carrying the only one in the ground.
I know this club and Moyes WILL get one hell of a reception.
I'll bet none of the people you "claim" want him gone will be chanting "Moyes Out" or booing him ? and let's be very clear here: if that's what you/your mates think, you should be ashamed if you don't.
Tell you what, Stephen: Why don't you bring a "Moyes Out" banner? I'd deffo buy you a bev if you did...
And, let's face it, I'd have no trouble finding you as you would be carrying the only one in the ground.
Dave
If we boo'd,got banners out or anything else of that nature you would tell us that that behaviour belongs on the other side of the park and that we should be ashamed of ourselves.
If we boo'd,got banners out or anything else of that nature you would tell us that that behaviour belongs on the other side of the park and that we should be ashamed of ourselves.
Dave,
I'll bet you he doesn't get one hell of a reception. I'll also bet you come on here saying he did.
I didn't claim anything other than the opinions of my own group. I'll leave speaking for the whole of Evertonia to others.
I've booed him plenty of times when he's merited it. I'd do it again Sunday if I felt it was merited.
But, I won't be booing while I show the players(and Moyes) my appreciation for the effort they have put in over the course of a season to represent my club.
Despite the fact it's convienient to paint his critics as foaming at the mouth Jimmy Sorheim's most still have a modicum of respect for what he's tried to do for us. I won't feel ashamed for not protesting against him at the most inappropriate point in the whole season, then again why should I?
I'll tell you what you bring a Moyes in banner and I'll buy you a bevy. I'll have no problem finding you either. We both know Evertonians don't do banners.
I'll bet you he doesn't get one hell of a reception. I'll also bet you come on here saying he did.
I didn't claim anything other than the opinions of my own group. I'll leave speaking for the whole of Evertonia to others.
I've booed him plenty of times when he's merited it. I'd do it again Sunday if I felt it was merited.
But, I won't be booing while I show the players(and Moyes) my appreciation for the effort they have put in over the course of a season to represent my club.
Despite the fact it's convienient to paint his critics as foaming at the mouth Jimmy Sorheim's most still have a modicum of respect for what he's tried to do for us. I won't feel ashamed for not protesting against him at the most inappropriate point in the whole season, then again why should I?
I'll tell you what you bring a Moyes in banner and I'll buy you a bevy. I'll have no problem finding you either. We both know Evertonians don't do banners.
On the contrary, Paul.
I honestly feel that if you as an Evertonian, are unhappy with the Manager, you have an obligation to voice that displeasure. We fucken slaughtered managers like Lee ? just as we have slaughtered Kenwright ? and none of us ever felt like kopites, just passionate Evertonians.
Now, if you guys ever want to be viewed as anything more than a tiny minority, you have to make yourselves heard.
I'm not asking you to show you are "nearly everyone in the whole world"; I'm asking you to show the rest of Evertonia that you are more than a few hundred malcontents who can't understand why the manager hasn't made a silk purse out of a sow's ear.
It's the gauntlet mate. I`m throwing it down. Don't tell us there are thousands of you. Show us.
Stephen
Right after the final whistle of the last game of the season is probably the best time possibly to voice your opinion, give your verdict. Surely SOME of those many people you claim want this to be Moyes`s last match will voice their dissent.
I`m happy to leave the usual TW match reporters to give a fair an accurate account of what took place
I honestly feel that if you as an Evertonian, are unhappy with the Manager, you have an obligation to voice that displeasure. We fucken slaughtered managers like Lee ? just as we have slaughtered Kenwright ? and none of us ever felt like kopites, just passionate Evertonians.
Now, if you guys ever want to be viewed as anything more than a tiny minority, you have to make yourselves heard.
I'm not asking you to show you are "nearly everyone in the whole world"; I'm asking you to show the rest of Evertonia that you are more than a few hundred malcontents who can't understand why the manager hasn't made a silk purse out of a sow's ear.
It's the gauntlet mate. I`m throwing it down. Don't tell us there are thousands of you. Show us.
Stephen
Right after the final whistle of the last game of the season is probably the best time possibly to voice your opinion, give your verdict. Surely SOME of those many people you claim want this to be Moyes`s last match will voice their dissent.
I`m happy to leave the usual TW match reporters to give a fair an accurate account of what took place
Dave,
When has Kenwright ever been slaughtered by any set of Evertonians ever???
Johnson was slaughtered. Bill has seen nothing worse than two ridiculously well behaved marches.
Those who want Moyes out aren't trying to create a movement or make their feelings known en-masse or be viewed as anything, I'm unsure why you think we are?
The, at best, lukewarm reception he gets at the end will tell him, and you, how a fair percentage feel.
I won't be screaming Moyes out at any match ever. I wouldn't want anybody else to either. I want him to leave the club in a dignified manner in the way lesser men than him have.
Almost to a man every poster here thinks Neville is finished and not worth the shirt, I doubt any bar you think the time to let him know would be a lap of honour on the last day of the season.
BTW, I notice you havent applied your logic to the ownership situation. Will I be seeing you with your Kenwright out banner?
When has Kenwright ever been slaughtered by any set of Evertonians ever???
Johnson was slaughtered. Bill has seen nothing worse than two ridiculously well behaved marches.
Those who want Moyes out aren't trying to create a movement or make their feelings known en-masse or be viewed as anything, I'm unsure why you think we are?
The, at best, lukewarm reception he gets at the end will tell him, and you, how a fair percentage feel.
I won't be screaming Moyes out at any match ever. I wouldn't want anybody else to either. I want him to leave the club in a dignified manner in the way lesser men than him have.
Almost to a man every poster here thinks Neville is finished and not worth the shirt, I doubt any bar you think the time to let him know would be a lap of honour on the last day of the season.
BTW, I notice you havent applied your logic to the ownership situation. Will I be seeing you with your Kenwright out banner?
Dave
Not much to say,Stephen covered it but I would like to add that I am extremely confident that Moyes will not be getting the reception that you seem to think he will recieve.
While I am not expecting boo's I think the less than enthusiastic applause will speak volumes.
Not much to say,Stephen covered it but I would like to add that I am extremely confident that Moyes will not be getting the reception that you seem to think he will recieve.
While I am not expecting boo's I think the less than enthusiastic applause will speak volumes.
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060 Posted 05/05/2012 at 21:27:12
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