Season 2011-12
The Mail Bag
Why not Everton for Qataris?
65 Comments: The Mail on Sunday reports that "Newcastle and Fulham are to be `scoped out` by intermediaries working for senior members of the Qatari Royal Family as potential takeover targets."
Now I can understand why they would be interested in the Barcodes ? fine stadium, pressing for ECL place, and 50,000 disciples ? but Fulham is another matter altogether!
About all they have going for them is that they`re in a posh part of London but that`s mitigated by a crap ground and a debt mountain that makes Everton`s look inconsequential.
So if the ruling Al-Thani clan is really really exploring options to expand their football portfolio, why the hell aren`t they looking at Everton as a home for their spare readies?
And don't give me "Kenwright wouldn`t sell"!
Richard Dodd, Posted 07/05/2012 at 09:56:52
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Just in case you missed James' very valid and accurate observation...
...location, location, location.
Not a long trip in the Rolls to catch the sport after blowing a couple of hundred thou in Harrods.
...location, location, location.
Not a long trip in the Rolls to catch the sport after blowing a couple of hundred thou in Harrods.
Richard, as others on here will no doubt attest, whilst the Arab's may have a lot of money to burn, they're not stupid. Whilst I'm sure Kenwright would sell to the highest bidder, sooner or later he's going to have to realise that no serious bidder will look at what he's offering when there are other more viable targets around.
All of these Middle Eastern countries are interested in the branding that the EPL gives them. Think Man City's owners are gutted about the Tevez and Balotelli antics? Think again. They get 3,000 mentions globally across the different media channels, and they love it.
Like Abu Dhabi and Dubai, Qatar has a number of state-owned companies that have money to burn and are looking for global sponsorship deals, so expect Q-Tel on Fulham shirts from next season?
All of these Middle Eastern countries are interested in the branding that the EPL gives them. Think Man City's owners are gutted about the Tevez and Balotelli antics? Think again. They get 3,000 mentions globally across the different media channels, and they love it.
Like Abu Dhabi and Dubai, Qatar has a number of state-owned companies that have money to burn and are looking for global sponsorship deals, so expect Q-Tel on Fulham shirts from next season?
Strange people use our ground as an excuse for people not wanting to buy us and yet we have this, small fanbase, shit ground and location was not a problem for the City Sheiks whom, I was told had a meeting with Billy bull after First going to Hicks an Gillet.
If Kenwright loves Everton so much, why doesn't he sell his % holding for what he has put in to EFC? And then I'll believe he has the interest of EFC above all things.
But Hell will freeze over before he does that!!!!!
But Hell will freeze over before he does that!!!!!
Paul weren't City just about to move into the City of Manchester Stadium? There's £300 million straight away off the potential investment needed to move the club forward.
Our chairman is in show business, he loves the limelight, and being centre of attraction so to speak.
When Moyes was on Goals on Sunday, old Gordon Clegg showed up before his return to Corrie.
Being chairman of a Premier League club is right up his street (excuse the pun).
When Moyes was on Goals on Sunday, old Gordon Clegg showed up before his return to Corrie.
Being chairman of a Premier League club is right up his street (excuse the pun).
It's not that Kenwright won't sell, it's that no one will pay Kenwright what he wants. No one will pay Philip Green and Robert Earl and his company in the BVI what they want.
Baffles me how many clubs have been bought out recently, not all for the better, but how can clubs like Leicester be seen as a better investment than us?
Exactly Alan, it's not BK it's the people that have loaned him the money. Green and Earl obviously don't want to commit to the club and are looking for a profit. The only way they will go is if we do get people offering silly money (yeah, as if!) or we go under.
James that stadium was not owned by City at the time.
It's all rumours, it was just something I was told from a colleague who had done business with a quite large Everton shareholder who sits close to Kenwright; he called him a non-too-pleasant name.
They allegedly wanted us But Bill wanted silly money.
The Liverpool story came from a friend of Benitez; as I said though, just rumours.
It's all rumours, it was just something I was told from a colleague who had done business with a quite large Everton shareholder who sits close to Kenwright; he called him a non-too-pleasant name.
They allegedly wanted us But Bill wanted silly money.
The Liverpool story came from a friend of Benitez; as I said though, just rumours.
One things is for sure and thats that there are and have been 'buyers' out there. The boards inability to get us investment is indicative of either their greed or inability to do good business...or most likely both.
This is a copy of what some people is an official document, think it has been shown on here before... I believe it to be authentic... make your own minds up.
I've sent this to Michael as an e.mail attachment as i am not to clever with theses computer thingies... :)
I've sent this to Michael as an e.mail attachment as i am not to clever with theses computer thingies... :)
Agree with you sam #386
There are buyers about but we are not able to seal any deals - something is not right!
There are buyers about but we are not able to seal any deals - something is not right!
Richard, as has been said. We ain't in London and our stadium is a shit hole. Man City were lucky, they inherite the stadium and they wanted etihad flying from Manchester Airport. They don't desearve any of it,we all remebder, the kippax, platt lane, John Bond, Peter Swales, Paul Dickiov v Gillingham, but at the end of the day life's shit, and City are the jammiest bastards in football history. We ain't.
The trouble is if you are any sort of businessman after 10 seconds with Kenwright you'd recognise you were dealing with a complete fantasist and walk away.
There's loads of alternatives out there.
There's loads of alternatives out there.
Same Hoare = Nail on head
Cretins of the highest order run our club and i reckon they still have years left before they finally sell and depart.
I imagine that if Bluey did finally sell he would demand the title of "Honorary Chairman"
Yet another horrible summer of non investment followed by lie after lie awaits.................
Cretins of the highest order run our club and i reckon they still have years left before they finally sell and depart.
I imagine that if Bluey did finally sell he would demand the title of "Honorary Chairman"
Yet another horrible summer of non investment followed by lie after lie awaits.................
What really fucks me off is none of you have a clue. Not a single shred of evidence of what BK or the other current investers want but you spurt out a wild range of fantasies. Utterly pointless! Uterly pointless! Just realise that football, sadly, left the fans decades ago.
David M
Other current investors????
Erm, can you run that by me again cos I don't think they have invested anything in EFC.
Unless I've missed summat....
Other current investors????
Erm, can you run that by me again cos I don't think they have invested anything in EFC.
Unless I've missed summat....
I think we have a rather large clue, er....Bill.
It wouldn't take Columbo to figure out that a club that's been on sale for 10 years ? and hasn't been sold ? is one where the sale, and those selling it, are problematic.
It wouldn't take Columbo to figure out that a club that's been on sale for 10 years ? and hasn't been sold ? is one where the sale, and those selling it, are problematic.
Go on then David - enlighten us all !
Why do YOU think 9 potential buyers have walked away.
N.B. The nine interested parties are FACT - ask our CEO.
Why do YOU think 9 potential buyers have walked away.
N.B. The nine interested parties are FACT - ask our CEO.
Paul- Clubs like Leicester and QPR are a more attractive prospect than us because they can be bought relatively cheaply and (in theory) taken into the Premier League were the market value sores and they can either sell up, sell shares or make money from the marketing etc.
The Venkys at Blackburn didn't seem to understand that Blackburn could get relegated and vastly underestimated how much it would cost to get to where they envisaged.
Our problem is that we are not viable as an investment as we have gone as far as we can without a new stadium. That just leaves the owners like Ambramovic and whatever the Sheik is called at City. Here again, our price is relatively high and we desperately need a stadium. Our main selling point is our rich history which doesn't mean as much to foreign investors, especially when our main rivals have sn annoying ability to win trophies with an awful set of players.
It's going to take a miracle or a disaster for us to be sold!
The Venkys at Blackburn didn't seem to understand that Blackburn could get relegated and vastly underestimated how much it would cost to get to where they envisaged.
Our problem is that we are not viable as an investment as we have gone as far as we can without a new stadium. That just leaves the owners like Ambramovic and whatever the Sheik is called at City. Here again, our price is relatively high and we desperately need a stadium. Our main selling point is our rich history which doesn't mean as much to foreign investors, especially when our main rivals have sn annoying ability to win trophies with an awful set of players.
It's going to take a miracle or a disaster for us to be sold!
I don't think the debt is of much consequence. A £100M club with £100M of debt: You pay the owner: £100M ? the debt = nowt, and take on the debt, or if you prefer pay it off.
A £100M club with £50M debt, you pay the owner: £100M ? the debt = £50M, and take on the debt, or if you prefer pay it off.
It comes out the same. The owner each time gets the same amount plus losing his debt. And don't tell me "it doesn't work that way!" ? it does, the buyer insists. Wouldn't you? You think they are different??
And as someone else has said of Fulham: location, location. Except, Fulham do not have a large following and have nearby competition, Chealsea, QPR, Man Utd and Liverpool (trust me, the last two are real).
Newcastle will always be attractive: big ground and little local competition for fans.
A £100M club with £50M debt, you pay the owner: £100M ? the debt = £50M, and take on the debt, or if you prefer pay it off.
It comes out the same. The owner each time gets the same amount plus losing his debt. And don't tell me "it doesn't work that way!" ? it does, the buyer insists. Wouldn't you? You think they are different??
And as someone else has said of Fulham: location, location. Except, Fulham do not have a large following and have nearby competition, Chealsea, QPR, Man Utd and Liverpool (trust me, the last two are real).
Newcastle will always be attractive: big ground and little local competition for fans.
All this is based on the idea that this news story is actually correct! The difference between us and Leicester etc has been mentioned above. There is money to be made on them, to make us certainty for the Champions League or to build a new stadium, both will increase the worth of the club, would be negated by the initial cost.
Contrary to popular belief, I don't think that another Sheik Mansour or Abramovich actually exist.
Contrary to popular belief, I don't think that another Sheik Mansour or Abramovich actually exist.
I have always believed that only a buyer like the Quataris would have enough to purchase our Club AND MAKE A REAL DIFFERENCE.
Clearly a Randy Lerner, Venky or Morgan ? rich though they may be ? is no longer minted enough to fund both the stadium development required and maintain a top-end team. So all the shouting in the world ?even if it did drive Kenwright out ? will do little to solve our problems.
Do you know, I'm beginning to believe that our man is not stalling after all. Everton IS unsaleable ? at any price!
Clearly a Randy Lerner, Venky or Morgan ? rich though they may be ? is no longer minted enough to fund both the stadium development required and maintain a top-end team. So all the shouting in the world ?even if it did drive Kenwright out ? will do little to solve our problems.
Do you know, I'm beginning to believe that our man is not stalling after all. Everton IS unsaleable ? at any price!
I know nothing and little of what's going on, but it certainly looks like we are getting priced out of the market. This would mean our beloved Blue Bill and the market traders he associates himself with are trying their best to milk what they can from a dying club.
Mate of mine works in the Financial Sector, particularly in the Pension Advice area to millionaires based in London. They use an enormous amount of Corporate entertainment mostly in Football, Cricket and Tennis. After years of doing it, they have settled on entertaining clients (both UK and International) at Arsenal (the best), Spurs, Chelsea, Man Utd, Liverpool and this year have included Man City and Newcastle for the first time, City for obvious reasons (and they have an International Airport) and Newcastle because they have excellent facilities. 90% of clients prefer London based entertainment and travel north only for the game and get back asap to London.
His company have never ever used Everton and have no future plans to do so, and Liverpool's position is also falling in their rankings.
I don't know how we can ever attract investment if I'm honest. The ground is totally inadequate, Liverpool has lost its 60s,70s, appeal and I'm with Richard that Everton is unsaleable at any price, there is nothing at all to attract any investor to us.
His company have never ever used Everton and have no future plans to do so, and Liverpool's position is also falling in their rankings.
I don't know how we can ever attract investment if I'm honest. The ground is totally inadequate, Liverpool has lost its 60s,70s, appeal and I'm with Richard that Everton is unsaleable at any price, there is nothing at all to attract any investor to us.
Any hopes of a resurgence will have to start with success on the playing field.The problem is that whenever we are in with a chance of honours our manager bottles it.
His determination to avoid the drop coupled with a subservient attitude toward big clubs will see crowds dwindle and keep us forever in mid table mediocrity.
Any hope of a long term success could hinge on a sink or swim Blackpoolesque attitude.
In the longer term relegation could actually be our saviour.
with hopes of making a killing having disappeared It might generate a boardroom revolution. The Messiah's negative tactics having failed he would likely move on to be replaced by someone more attack minded.
Just imagine an Everton side that from whoa to go throws the kitchen sink into the fray. A bit mouth watering eh'.
Trophies would be won, the Old Lady would be jam packed, investors would be queuing up and we all lived happily ever after.
His determination to avoid the drop coupled with a subservient attitude toward big clubs will see crowds dwindle and keep us forever in mid table mediocrity.
Any hope of a long term success could hinge on a sink or swim Blackpoolesque attitude.
In the longer term relegation could actually be our saviour.
with hopes of making a killing having disappeared It might generate a boardroom revolution. The Messiah's negative tactics having failed he would likely move on to be replaced by someone more attack minded.
Just imagine an Everton side that from whoa to go throws the kitchen sink into the fray. A bit mouth watering eh'.
Trophies would be won, the Old Lady would be jam packed, investors would be queuing up and we all lived happily ever after.
#451,
What the fuck? If Rangers with a worse financial predicament than us and inferior TV rights, can have multiple bidders. Why not us? The price is everything in any transaction. And Bill (and chums) are holding the club to ransom. FACT.
What the fuck? If Rangers with a worse financial predicament than us and inferior TV rights, can have multiple bidders. Why not us? The price is everything in any transaction. And Bill (and chums) are holding the club to ransom. FACT.
Rangers are being force sold and are one of the top two clubs in their league.
The kind of investor/buyer interested there is one who can go in small, inject a bit of stability, and expect a return in terms of Champs League etc.
That kind of investor is not interested in Everton as we need a lot of money pumped in to take us to that next level. We need, because of the new money rules, to earn our revenue and be run appropriately. To get new revenue we need a new stadium or we need Walton to become the tourist mecca confidently predicted by those behind the Football Quarter!.
Without that revenue we cant pay the wages of the big players even if we could get together the cash for top drawer player purchases every summer.
As has been said above we are not commercially attractive. Business people want to buy something cheap, drop in a bit of seed money, and get a rising value asset out of it. That, any way you try and cut it, is not something Everton can offer.
The kind of investor/buyer interested there is one who can go in small, inject a bit of stability, and expect a return in terms of Champs League etc.
That kind of investor is not interested in Everton as we need a lot of money pumped in to take us to that next level. We need, because of the new money rules, to earn our revenue and be run appropriately. To get new revenue we need a new stadium or we need Walton to become the tourist mecca confidently predicted by those behind the Football Quarter!.
Without that revenue we cant pay the wages of the big players even if we could get together the cash for top drawer player purchases every summer.
As has been said above we are not commercially attractive. Business people want to buy something cheap, drop in a bit of seed money, and get a rising value asset out of it. That, any way you try and cut it, is not something Everton can offer.
Phil #477.. Hit it on the head. Rangers bidders will still have to face up to the revenue & customs once the 'ticketus' shambles is sorted, even after administration.
If Kenwright was offered the Ticketus deal, I reckon he would have gone for it as well..
If they do form a new company to run the club then their is a chance that player contracts maybe invalid and they could all walk away on free transfers. Some much smarter cookies on TW than myself could say whether thats possible..
I hope Kenwright has paid the Inland Revenue is all I can hope for..
Marketing and sales ? Are we wearing this new kit in the last game of the season then ?
If Kenwright was offered the Ticketus deal, I reckon he would have gone for it as well..
If they do form a new company to run the club then their is a chance that player contracts maybe invalid and they could all walk away on free transfers. Some much smarter cookies on TW than myself could say whether thats possible..
I hope Kenwright has paid the Inland Revenue is all I can hope for..
Marketing and sales ? Are we wearing this new kit in the last game of the season then ?
David #405, Sir, you have a house, maybe with a Mortgage, you love it, and it is not for sale. However, if someone comes along and offers you enough, you may well take it, everything is for sale.
It is not my analogy, trust me.
It is not my analogy, trust me.
Mr Audsley #411, As investors they have invested their funds in the purchase of shares in a company. I would like the "investors" to invest in buying XY and Z to develop the business, but why would they? Investors invest to make a profit, and shareholders only do so if the shareprice of a non dividend paying company goes up or has the potentail to do so . If I was a significant shareholder I would not invest a penny more than the price of the shares which leads me on to Tony #382.
Tony, how do you know and what evidence can you put forward? I think that MK should set aside a separate thread for this aspect only. I keep hearing rumours about Green and lending money and blah what Earl is in it for.
Can someone let us have some evidence please?
Tony, how do you know and what evidence can you put forward? I think that MK should set aside a separate thread for this aspect only. I keep hearing rumours about Green and lending money and blah what Earl is in it for.
Can someone let us have some evidence please?
Steve Jones,
Rangers play in the SPL they don't get English PL revenues. Even when they compete in the Champs league, they still fall way short of the tv revenues a top flight English club. Hence all this shout about them and Celtic moving South.
It doesn't matter they're being forced to be sold. The point is that all clubs have a value in which they are sellable. Rangers by virtue they are going bankrupt is £0. Everton should be somewhere between that and £50m. This is the problem, Green Earl and Bill appear to expect big returns on their holdings. Which makes Everton totally unattractive.
Myth #2, our stadium puts buyers off. Maybe smaller investors yes. But the Qataris are in the same league as the City Sheikhs.
So given they've commited £700m to making City the best side in the league AND about to fund a regeneration of a huge area around the Etihad stadium. Why would £150m redevelopment of GP be an issue to an owner like that?
Rangers play in the SPL they don't get English PL revenues. Even when they compete in the Champs league, they still fall way short of the tv revenues a top flight English club. Hence all this shout about them and Celtic moving South.
It doesn't matter they're being forced to be sold. The point is that all clubs have a value in which they are sellable. Rangers by virtue they are going bankrupt is £0. Everton should be somewhere between that and £50m. This is the problem, Green Earl and Bill appear to expect big returns on their holdings. Which makes Everton totally unattractive.
Myth #2, our stadium puts buyers off. Maybe smaller investors yes. But the Qataris are in the same league as the City Sheikhs.
So given they've commited £700m to making City the best side in the league AND about to fund a regeneration of a huge area around the Etihad stadium. Why would £150m redevelopment of GP be an issue to an owner like that?
Maybe just maybe, Manchester is a more cosmopolitan city than Liverpool? Or the fact Manchester City could move into a new stadium far from their old dump in Rusholme (yes I've lived there when I was at uni).
As Mike Oates states, why would millionaires and corporate entertainment even contemplate hosting functions in backwater areas? They're not into local pubs, chippys and discotheques are they? Any sushi bars around Goodison? French and Italian fashion boutiques?
Sounds ludicrous but the one thing Americans have over us is they can migrate their franchaises anywhere in the country. New York Dodgers to LA Dodgers. We should be looking to move Goodison to London. Local income means nought, it's corporate hospitality for overseas millionaires.
As Mike Oates states, why would millionaires and corporate entertainment even contemplate hosting functions in backwater areas? They're not into local pubs, chippys and discotheques are they? Any sushi bars around Goodison? French and Italian fashion boutiques?
Sounds ludicrous but the one thing Americans have over us is they can migrate their franchaises anywhere in the country. New York Dodgers to LA Dodgers. We should be looking to move Goodison to London. Local income means nought, it's corporate hospitality for overseas millionaires.
Are these same Qataris that have been linked with Everton in the past, were supposed to be buying Man Utd last year and have been linked over the past few days with adding investment into Chelsea without buying them outright? Get about a bit during rumour season don't they
Phil 513,
Rangers record turnover is only about £15mn short of ours and they do not have a wage bill like ours to cover. Get them some stability and chuck in a couple of £10mn signings and they are easily going to return league titles.
The costs to turn them around and get them back to the top of their league are, simply put, a fraction of what it would take to get us to the same sort of position. That is the bottom line.
Why would £150mn of redevelopment money be an issue?. Well lets look at what that £150mn bought instead of a stadium - Robinho, Lescott, Silva, Dzeko, Aguero!. Putting money into infrastructure, up front, did not fit the Arabs plan they wanted spectacular headlines of their largesse and financial muscle.
Rangers record turnover is only about £15mn short of ours and they do not have a wage bill like ours to cover. Get them some stability and chuck in a couple of £10mn signings and they are easily going to return league titles.
The costs to turn them around and get them back to the top of their league are, simply put, a fraction of what it would take to get us to the same sort of position. That is the bottom line.
Why would £150mn of redevelopment money be an issue?. Well lets look at what that £150mn bought instead of a stadium - Robinho, Lescott, Silva, Dzeko, Aguero!. Putting money into infrastructure, up front, did not fit the Arabs plan they wanted spectacular headlines of their largesse and financial muscle.
Jason - you've put your finger on the missing piece in the jigsaw, Bill's cunning plan that none of us understood until now.
Yes, it's move Goodison to London.
Interesting thinking about what that might do to the attendance problem. Bill would certainly go, I would go too, and there are about another 1,000 ESCLA members here. All we need is to find another 60,000 exiled scousers or those prepared to, and with the money to, travel each week.
Yes, it's move Goodison to London.
Interesting thinking about what that might do to the attendance problem. Bill would certainly go, I would go too, and there are about another 1,000 ESCLA members here. All we need is to find another 60,000 exiled scousers or those prepared to, and with the money to, travel each week.
We could give out free tickets, free coaches and free flags. Like Chelsea.
We're a Premier League club, if we get players the caliber of Silva, Aguero, then 60,000 neutral fans/tourists will flock in. Print the programmes in Chinese, Japanese and Arabic. It'll be another entertainment event that fits in the tourist schedule with the London Eye, Tower bridge and soho.
Or we could raise prices at Goodison to match London club prices. The income has to come in somewhere. Londoners and tourists have more spending power. Think business not football.
We're a Premier League club, if we get players the caliber of Silva, Aguero, then 60,000 neutral fans/tourists will flock in. Print the programmes in Chinese, Japanese and Arabic. It'll be another entertainment event that fits in the tourist schedule with the London Eye, Tower bridge and soho.
Or we could raise prices at Goodison to match London club prices. The income has to come in somewhere. Londoners and tourists have more spending power. Think business not football.
Here we go again........
You've got the ground and location to blame for no one wanting to buy Everton.
Have you seen St James' Park?!?!?!? Makes Goodison look like a fuckin' non-league ground.
As for Fulham, all you have to do is walk round the ground and that'll tell you all you need to know about wanting to buy them.
I've said it before and I'll say it again; until we move from Goodison this football club is going nowhere FAST.
Fuck it anyway - it's a short week and the season is nearly done.
More of the same shite next year to look forward to all summer.
You've got the ground and location to blame for no one wanting to buy Everton.
Have you seen St James' Park?!?!?!? Makes Goodison look like a fuckin' non-league ground.
As for Fulham, all you have to do is walk round the ground and that'll tell you all you need to know about wanting to buy them.
I've said it before and I'll say it again; until we move from Goodison this football club is going nowhere FAST.
Fuck it anyway - it's a short week and the season is nearly done.
More of the same shite next year to look forward to all summer.
Andy,
Blaming the ground and the location is not the problem.
Anfield is only 5 years away from being in the same state as Goodison. Plus it's only a stroll away. So clearly stadia and location have some importance but not the sole factor to be considered.
Steve,
Are you seriously suggesting that spending £150M on a Stadium redevelopment would put off someone like the sheihks if they have £700M (like Mansour) to spend on a club?
No chance. The asking price is what puts bidders off. End of.
Blaming the ground and the location is not the problem.
Anfield is only 5 years away from being in the same state as Goodison. Plus it's only a stroll away. So clearly stadia and location have some importance but not the sole factor to be considered.
Steve,
Are you seriously suggesting that spending £150M on a Stadium redevelopment would put off someone like the sheihks if they have £700M (like Mansour) to spend on a club?
No chance. The asking price is what puts bidders off. End of.
Some people on here think Bill is an idiot, I beg to differ.
Would he and his mates do nothing while their main asset crumbles to dust. I think not.
Their chance of a big pay off depends on Moyes keeping us in the PL. At first signs of him struggling to do that we see transfer funds suddenly made available, ie: Jelavic.
Would he and his mates do nothing while their main asset crumbles to dust. I think not.
Their chance of a big pay off depends on Moyes keeping us in the PL. At first signs of him struggling to do that we see transfer funds suddenly made available, ie: Jelavic.
No Phil. I'm saying spending £150mn on a stadium DID put the Sheikhs off the club because that money they wanted to spend on players and glory not bricks and mortar.
Last I heard the Etihad was still owned by Manchester City Council and leased by City. So despite this £700mn the Arabs have dumped in, that you seem so impressed with, they still havent bought into the bricks and mortar and haven't given City ownership of their own bloody ground.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-city/8257210/How-Manchester-City-won-the-stadium-lottery.html
The 'asking price' being the whole issue is a lazy excuse by those without the nouse to look at the real problems. End of.
Last I heard the Etihad was still owned by Manchester City Council and leased by City. So despite this £700mn the Arabs have dumped in, that you seem so impressed with, they still havent bought into the bricks and mortar and haven't given City ownership of their own bloody ground.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-city/8257210/How-Manchester-City-won-the-stadium-lottery.html
The 'asking price' being the whole issue is a lazy excuse by those without the nouse to look at the real problems. End of.
If your house has been up for sale for over 10yrs the fucking estates agents would be asking you to lower the price.
That is the problem, its teh number of Zeros Billy Bullshit wants on his cheque nothing more.
If i was a billionaire I would buy the club build a new stadium and then ban that bullshitter from getting anywhere near the place.
As fans we are all at the wim of that fucking man.
That is the problem, its teh number of Zeros Billy Bullshit wants on his cheque nothing more.
If i was a billionaire I would buy the club build a new stadium and then ban that bullshitter from getting anywhere near the place.
As fans we are all at the wim of that fucking man.
If Bill Kenwright had not been a fucking ego maniac and had let Paul Gregg invest the money for the Kngs Dock, it could have been Everton with the Arab money.
That's why I hate and always will hate Bill Kenwright. The Kings Dock was our only opportunity and he fucked it up.
That's why I hate and always will hate Bill Kenwright. The Kings Dock was our only opportunity and he fucked it up.
My good friend Claire Voyent believes success is just around the corner. The stars are aligning... she feels it in her water... (Taking the piss, perhaps!)
Steve,
The £1Bn redevelopment around the Etihad is being largely funded by the owners. So yes they are investing in "bricks and mortar".
Compared with our chairman who cant even fund a hole in a wall.
As Daniel #558 said above. If you're house is on the market for 10 years. Then its either you not really being that bothered about selling or your asking price thats wrong.
Some buyers want projects and a chance to rebuild something special - at the right price. But no-one wants to bail out Bill and co for years of neglect and credit card debt.
The £1Bn redevelopment around the Etihad is being largely funded by the owners. So yes they are investing in "bricks and mortar".
Compared with our chairman who cant even fund a hole in a wall.
As Daniel #558 said above. If you're house is on the market for 10 years. Then its either you not really being that bothered about selling or your asking price thats wrong.
Some buyers want projects and a chance to rebuild something special - at the right price. But no-one wants to bail out Bill and co for years of neglect and credit card debt.
The reality of this situation is that most of us would have welcomed the Venkys with a street parade, just as Rangers fans did when their saviour Whyte took over their world-famous club.
The assumption that new owners are bound to be better than the old is an easy one to make but repeatedly turns out to be a false dawn."Anybody would be an improvement on Doug Ellis," said Villa fans as one... but now they ain't so sure!
For some clubs: Coventry, Sheffield Wednesday, Portsmouth, Leeds et al, a change from a long-established owner turns out to be the precursor to a procession of chancers, each of whom are far worse than those they replace.
All of which fills me with little hope for our future... although, as long as Davey is holding Bill's hand, I think we can be confident that doomsday will, at least, be delayed.
The assumption that new owners are bound to be better than the old is an easy one to make but repeatedly turns out to be a false dawn."Anybody would be an improvement on Doug Ellis," said Villa fans as one... but now they ain't so sure!
For some clubs: Coventry, Sheffield Wednesday, Portsmouth, Leeds et al, a change from a long-established owner turns out to be the precursor to a procession of chancers, each of whom are far worse than those they replace.
All of which fills me with little hope for our future... although, as long as Davey is holding Bill's hand, I think we can be confident that doomsday will, at least, be delayed.
The reason Liverpool are a better proposition for a buyer than we are, despite the fact that Anfield is a short walk away from Goodison and is in no better condition is their 'history' of success over the past few decades. This has made them a 'global' brand and accordingly fairly desirable.
In every other respect, aside from this, they would be in no better a position than us.
The club needs to move to somewhere more attractive than Walton I'm afraid, unless, of course, we suddenly and unexpectedly start winning all kinds of trophies and become attractive to a buyer in that respect. I think we would all agree though, that that is highly unlikely to happen.
So we need to move, maybe to somewhere nearer the town centre, ideally overlooking the river where all the 'tourists' who visit Liverpool tend to stick anyway. But that would require a huge investment which nobody is likely to offer either under the present regime or under the regime of any future buyer.
Whatever faults we can pin to BK, the fact that he may want his money back, even with a little interest (and nobody really knows if this is the case) cannot be the reason for the lack of a sale. Any buyer who was prepared to invest in Everton the sort of money it would need to make us a top club again (a la City) would in no way be put off by a few million extra quid if his/their plan was to undertake the same scale of investment as has happened at City. Such a sum, though seemingly huge from where we stand, would be a drop in the ocean in the grand scale of things.
Those who believe that BK is the only or the main impediment to a sale are deluding themselves and present as people just wanting to identify somebody to blame because it helps them to feel better.
Our history is great too but it is rather ancient and doesn't ring in the ears of a Sheikh or an Oligarch, or even a sports investment company. Everton have all the disadvantages and few if any advantages when it comes to selling the club. It surprises me that Newcastle have not been sold to somebody mega-rich already and, as somebody stated above, Fulham have one huge advantage....location.
Trying to find a single individual to blame may well be comforting, but we have to face up to the truth and the truth is that Everton Football Club is not an attractive investment opportunity for the super-rich. There would be very little in it for them. Not even Kudos nor philanthropic satisfaction. They could get much more of that at Fulham or even QPR.
We have to wake up and smell the coffee I'm afraid.
In every other respect, aside from this, they would be in no better a position than us.
The club needs to move to somewhere more attractive than Walton I'm afraid, unless, of course, we suddenly and unexpectedly start winning all kinds of trophies and become attractive to a buyer in that respect. I think we would all agree though, that that is highly unlikely to happen.
So we need to move, maybe to somewhere nearer the town centre, ideally overlooking the river where all the 'tourists' who visit Liverpool tend to stick anyway. But that would require a huge investment which nobody is likely to offer either under the present regime or under the regime of any future buyer.
Whatever faults we can pin to BK, the fact that he may want his money back, even with a little interest (and nobody really knows if this is the case) cannot be the reason for the lack of a sale. Any buyer who was prepared to invest in Everton the sort of money it would need to make us a top club again (a la City) would in no way be put off by a few million extra quid if his/their plan was to undertake the same scale of investment as has happened at City. Such a sum, though seemingly huge from where we stand, would be a drop in the ocean in the grand scale of things.
Those who believe that BK is the only or the main impediment to a sale are deluding themselves and present as people just wanting to identify somebody to blame because it helps them to feel better.
Our history is great too but it is rather ancient and doesn't ring in the ears of a Sheikh or an Oligarch, or even a sports investment company. Everton have all the disadvantages and few if any advantages when it comes to selling the club. It surprises me that Newcastle have not been sold to somebody mega-rich already and, as somebody stated above, Fulham have one huge advantage....location.
Trying to find a single individual to blame may well be comforting, but we have to face up to the truth and the truth is that Everton Football Club is not an attractive investment opportunity for the super-rich. There would be very little in it for them. Not even Kudos nor philanthropic satisfaction. They could get much more of that at Fulham or even QPR.
We have to wake up and smell the coffee I'm afraid.
Phil 570,
Look at the Telegraph piece I posted. They are only looking at the development to try and create revenue so they can end-run around the new financial regs...sensible as they can only pull the 'sponsorship' trick so many times.
Once again Man City's stadium is owned by the local council NOT the club. City's ground cost relative shirt buttons as well....its not some huge Emirates-like edifice. Buying it for the club would not be an issue to the Sheikhs yet they have not. Why do you think that is?.
Answer: Because they dont have to.
They arent interested in owning a stadium in Manchester any more than they were interested in owning one in Liverpool and they certainly were not interested in rebuiding an old one for us. I dont know how that can be any clearer than it is.
I'm not sure you are quite understanding the difference between selling a house and selling a business.
To use that analogy the house you are selling would have to be an old Victorian mansion. Something needing a shitload of work and investment to get up to a good, saleable, standard. If you saw that on the market reduced from £200k to £100k would it make a difference?. No it wouldnt, because, you'd know that you still have to find the shitload to get the thing right and you'd be facing a huge project without any guarantee of a return.
When you get this maybe you'll understand that, by this point, even if Kenwright spontaneously combusted tomorrow it would change nothing on our chances for being taken over.
Look at the Telegraph piece I posted. They are only looking at the development to try and create revenue so they can end-run around the new financial regs...sensible as they can only pull the 'sponsorship' trick so many times.
Once again Man City's stadium is owned by the local council NOT the club. City's ground cost relative shirt buttons as well....its not some huge Emirates-like edifice. Buying it for the club would not be an issue to the Sheikhs yet they have not. Why do you think that is?.
Answer: Because they dont have to.
They arent interested in owning a stadium in Manchester any more than they were interested in owning one in Liverpool and they certainly were not interested in rebuiding an old one for us. I dont know how that can be any clearer than it is.
I'm not sure you are quite understanding the difference between selling a house and selling a business.
To use that analogy the house you are selling would have to be an old Victorian mansion. Something needing a shitload of work and investment to get up to a good, saleable, standard. If you saw that on the market reduced from £200k to £100k would it make a difference?. No it wouldnt, because, you'd know that you still have to find the shitload to get the thing right and you'd be facing a huge project without any guarantee of a return.
When you get this maybe you'll understand that, by this point, even if Kenwright spontaneously combusted tomorrow it would change nothing on our chances for being taken over.
Well as my old mucker Fred Flintstone once said. " I don't want investment from Dubai but I don't mind if Abi Dhabi Do"
Sorry fuckall to do with footy, just one of the best jokes I've heard for ages
Sorry fuckall to do with footy, just one of the best jokes I've heard for ages
The thing that strikes me is when you see BK, DM or any officials they all appear quite happy.
Any disquiet either hasn't got through or they genuinely think it's all going great, in which case why not just hang on.
If people don't offer what you want AND on your terms tell 'em to fuck off.
I would, and privately I'd adopt a "let them eat cake" attitude to any of the great unwashed having a moan.
(actually they're doing that aren't they?)
Any disquiet either hasn't got through or they genuinely think it's all going great, in which case why not just hang on.
If people don't offer what you want AND on your terms tell 'em to fuck off.
I would, and privately I'd adopt a "let them eat cake" attitude to any of the great unwashed having a moan.
(actually they're doing that aren't they?)
With Liverpool recently voting for an elected mayor in the form of big Joe Anderson who is an Evertonian I am hopeful that he can possibly have a positive influence on attracting investment for Everton. Kenwright needs to stop using the likes of Terry Leahy whose only purpose appears to have been to the benefit of Tesco and start using influential figures such as Joe Anderson and Andy Burnham who actually care about the Club.
OK guys - I give in. Tell me exactly who are the rich billionaires you know who will buy Everton, invest in the team and build us a new stadium because I think that BK would like to return to being just a fan without the responsibility. Go on name and shame these money men you are so certain about and ideally how much they have to spend - I'd love to know.
I sent an email attachment to Michael, as I wasn't able to copy a link....
Dont know if Mike could put it up as it's relevant to this thread... maybe there's a legal aspect to it?
Just to let anyone who hasn't seen it know, it's a list of people/companies who were at one point or another vinterested in Everton FC.
Dont know if Mike could put it up as it's relevant to this thread... maybe there's a legal aspect to it?
Just to let anyone who hasn't seen it know, it's a list of people/companies who were at one point or another vinterested in Everton FC.
The only way Kenwright will sell is if he kicks the bucket. He loves being in control of the club so much, he doesn't talk to the fans or say anything about potential takeovers. Port Vale, Leicester and Reading have been taken over. Jack Hayward (ex-Wolves Chairman) sold the club for a quid and all he wanted was some investment. Kenwright can't name a price to save his life.
Alex #598,
Looks like youv'e fallen for that great BK saviour.
We don't need a billionaire. That's pure guff that comes from his mouth. We need someone who has business Acumen who is not a bull shitter of the highest degree and has a progressive plan for the club. Not one who just seems to take chances all the time.
Chances that have all backfired might I add.
Looks like youv'e fallen for that great BK saviour.
We don't need a billionaire. That's pure guff that comes from his mouth. We need someone who has business Acumen who is not a bull shitter of the highest degree and has a progressive plan for the club. Not one who just seems to take chances all the time.
Chances that have all backfired might I add.
We need someone with real business acumen alright...they are going to have to turn an average matchday spend, per fan, of about 20 quid into about 60 quid to compete with what the top clubs are bringing in. All without increasing ticket prices...
Thats acumen all right!
Thats acumen all right!
Why not?
Preliminary information given to potential buyers more optimistic than reality. There are big legacy costs as a result of doing things poorly over a number of years... structural and commercial problems. It would be a hard time turning things around and implementing structural changes and discipline. Such changes would make a buyer very unpopular given the way things have operated. There are a number of issues including legacy contracts, the limitation of potential revenue streams and the expectation of required investment.
Actually, all of the above are some of the excuses given by Bill Miller for not buying Rangers; all of them and more could, and most probably do, apply to us as well.
Preliminary information given to potential buyers more optimistic than reality. There are big legacy costs as a result of doing things poorly over a number of years... structural and commercial problems. It would be a hard time turning things around and implementing structural changes and discipline. Such changes would make a buyer very unpopular given the way things have operated. There are a number of issues including legacy contracts, the limitation of potential revenue streams and the expectation of required investment.
Actually, all of the above are some of the excuses given by Bill Miller for not buying Rangers; all of them and more could, and most probably do, apply to us as well.
Paul Gladwell (#366) ? I think you will find that the 'City Sheiks' also have an airline, Etihad, and said airline made Manchester Airport its UK hub. So, with Man Utd already sold, Man City was a LOGICAL branding exercise for them. After all, they have gazillions of dollars from the oil revenue ? a substance they never even knew about, even though they live right on top of it, and a substance they did not ? and do not ? have the ability to recover or refine... no, they had to rely on wicked INFIDEL Whitey to do all that for them.
Blame should also be put on Liverpool City Council who not only have sided with the RS over Everton but also allowed ? by their pedantic shortsightedness ? Liverpool Airport to be relegated to a provincial backwater. The Unions too deserve some blame for dragging Liverpool City's name through the gutters and causing the financial collapse of the Docks with their outrageous demands.
Blame should also be put on Liverpool City Council who not only have sided with the RS over Everton but also allowed ? by their pedantic shortsightedness ? Liverpool Airport to be relegated to a provincial backwater. The Unions too deserve some blame for dragging Liverpool City's name through the gutters and causing the financial collapse of the Docks with their outrageous demands.
Okay, Robby, here it is from your post last year!
Thing is.... 2009?!? That's THREE years ago now. This is SO out of date it's untrue.
Just a few weeks ago we had 12 interested parties?!? Let's have someone come up with the up-to-date M&A printout for EFC Co Ltd from Companies House listing a few of those supposed 'interested parties' Elstone's been telling us about...
Okay, so it proves that some of the rumoured 'interested parties' were in fact real. But three years old... Come on!
Thing is.... 2009?!? That's THREE years ago now. This is SO out of date it's untrue.
Just a few weeks ago we had 12 interested parties?!? Let's have someone come up with the up-to-date M&A printout for EFC Co Ltd from Companies House listing a few of those supposed 'interested parties' Elstone's been telling us about...
Okay, so it proves that some of the rumoured 'interested parties' were in fact real. But three years old... Come on!
Peter, I think LCC did more than their fair share to give Kenwright time to get his ring fenced money that never was with the Kings Dock, maybe after that shambles, they like allegedly others thought they could not deal with cowboys like this again.
The Qatari Investment Fund should be obvious potential buyers for Everton. The mega rich investors - which Richard quite rightly states are essential to make a difference to Everton - are clearly out there. The Qataris have already acquired PSG and Malaga.
Newcastle may have an excellent stadium and fanatical support but their actual fan base is restricted to a depressed and insular part of the country; we have been Champions seven times since they last won the League in 1927. Fulham may be based in the capital but they never have been and never will be a big club.
The massive support for the 2009 Cup Final and the recent Semi proved that we are still a huge club, we have a great history and we play in a world famous city. Why do the Kenwright apologists always play down our potential?
Newcastle may have an excellent stadium and fanatical support but their actual fan base is restricted to a depressed and insular part of the country; we have been Champions seven times since they last won the League in 1927. Fulham may be based in the capital but they never have been and never will be a big club.
The massive support for the 2009 Cup Final and the recent Semi proved that we are still a huge club, we have a great history and we play in a world famous city. Why do the Kenwright apologists always play down our potential?
Ian,
Newcastle need less spending on them to get to a position where they could be regularly challenging for top honours than we do.
Fulham are better placed to be a 'marquee' aquisition i.e a shiny bauble that can be used as a vehicle to promote whatever the Qataris want to promote.
Simple as that.
Newcastle need less spending on them to get to a position where they could be regularly challenging for top honours than we do.
Fulham are better placed to be a 'marquee' aquisition i.e a shiny bauble that can be used as a vehicle to promote whatever the Qataris want to promote.
Simple as that.
Thanks Mike,
Yes, it is three years old, I haven't seen a later version, but it shows there is interest from seriously wealthy people.
Sorry, that should say.... there was!
I wanted it up because Alex Bonar wanted to know who these Billionaires are... Well, there's a list... and apart from True Blue Holdings i reckon there wealthy enough.
The Red Rag of an Echo should investigate that document and, if it'0s real ? and all the rumours of Bill being unreasonable are true ? expose the Liar for what he is.
But of course the editor of that Rag is a kopite......
Yes, it is three years old, I haven't seen a later version, but it shows there is interest from seriously wealthy people.
Sorry, that should say.... there was!
I wanted it up because Alex Bonar wanted to know who these Billionaires are... Well, there's a list... and apart from True Blue Holdings i reckon there wealthy enough.
The Red Rag of an Echo should investigate that document and, if it'0s real ? and all the rumours of Bill being unreasonable are true ? expose the Liar for what he is.
But of course the editor of that Rag is a kopite......
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361 Posted 07/05/2012 at 14:10:40
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