Season 2011-12
The Mail Bag
Summer and the Euros
90 Comments: International football and the whole England thing just never quite does it for me! I'll probably tune in to the Euros this summer just to break the boredom.
To be honest, I couldn't give a toss how England get on; I'll only be watching cos it's football and summer sports usually send me to sleep. During the season, international breaks just piss me right off, the papers are full of the same old predictable shite about England's over-hyped elite and what they should be doing to do to the rest of world football just because we invented the game.
This time around, I'm slightly intrigued to see who Woy once of the Weds picks in his squad and whether he has the balls to tell the old guard "Thanks but no thanks". In their prime, Terry, Ferdinand, Lampard and Gerrard have been central to the hopes of the gullable fans at numerous tournaments and managed to achieve what amounts to the square root of fuck all.
Gerrard's even being touted as captain when he can't even manage 2 games in a row for Liverpool. I still don't understand how Terry has the audacity to show his face after the mauling he took at the hands of an ageing Mirislav Kloser during the last debacle versus Germany, Ferdinand's just so obviously past it, and fat Frank is only half as effective as when in his prime.
Do yourself a favour Woy, get shut of the "I wanna be captain" quartet and pick some hungry younger players.
You might still be watching the latter stages in your lounge but if your going to rely on these wankers you definitely will.
Roll on August, COYB
Mark Roberts, Posted 15/05/2012 at 02:15:34
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Hope Baines gets a shirt having been a far better player than "Englands only world class player" Ashley Cole for at least 3 seasons, its about time he started games but i wont be holding my breathe.
Its a certainty that Hodgson will pick Terry, Ferdinand, Gerrard, Lampard, Barry - the man wont take risks with so called " youngsters" and will happily trust the old guard.
I doubt that Jagielka will get in as he will plump for Cahill, Terry, Ferdinand, Lescott as his main back four and will also go for Cole's better defensive game than Baines's, although at least Baines will make the squad . We will spend the Euro's watching only Heitinga as Everton's sole main choice representative.
I doubt that Jagielka will get in as he will plump for Cahill, Terry, Ferdinand, Lescott as his main back four and will also go for Cole's better defensive game than Baines's, although at least Baines will make the squad . We will spend the Euro's watching only Heitinga as Everton's sole main choice representative.
Sorry missed off Jelavic as a main choice, although if he does the business it will bring back horrible memories of Lineker in the 86 World Cup when he left for Barcelona straight after the World Cup
I'm looking forward to it.
Players playing for the area they are from, teams not being bought, competitions not designed for the big teams to create the wealth to keep them in their position.
International football is more important and welcome than ever
Players playing for the area they are from, teams not being bought, competitions not designed for the big teams to create the wealth to keep them in their position.
International football is more important and welcome than ever
As usual I will be more interested in the Everton players than watching England. Though I am hoping that with Hodgson in charge we may see the back of the likes of Terry, Cole, Lampard, Gerrard, as I really can't get excited about a team made up of such twats, even if they have got an England shirt on! Though if Baines (Likely) and Jagielka (Doubtful) play, that will make things much more appealing.
As for the other teams, I guess it's just :
Heitinga (Netherlands)
Jelavic (Croatia)
Gibson (Eire)
Looks like Coleman (Eire), Vellios (Greece), and Distin (France) have missed out though. Shame Belgium didn't qualify, would have liked to see Fella up against the cream of Europe to see how he fared.
As for the other teams, I guess it's just :
Heitinga (Netherlands)
Jelavic (Croatia)
Gibson (Eire)
Looks like Coleman (Eire), Vellios (Greece), and Distin (France) have missed out though. Shame Belgium didn't qualify, would have liked to see Fella up against the cream of Europe to see how he fared.
There's some furious back scratching taking place as the old never has beens ingratiate themselves with the latest England manager and the dear elderly chap will probably fall for their sweet nothings.
Downing is the latest to burst into sickening fulsome praise of Hodgson. If that misbegotten flop makes the squad it proves that this bunch of losers and their darlings in the media share the same agent.
Downing is the latest to burst into sickening fulsome praise of Hodgson. If that misbegotten flop makes the squad it proves that this bunch of losers and their darlings in the media share the same agent.
Indeed Derek and I for one will be making the trek from Rosslare Harbour across Europe with 5 others in a 1974 VW Camper to support the boys in green. At least I'll see some genuine passion if not some good football. The post itself is laughable. "Woy" this and "Fat Frank" that. Is this The Sun? International beaks piss you off yet you're offering Roy some advice. England might actually do well given that the press/fans don't expect much. But as long as we hear Rule Britannia being bellowed out then who cares.
Good luck Shane! Hope you and your mates have a great trip, try not to drink more than a couple of cans a night, keep the noise down and get to bed early!
Completly agree, Mark, those four should all be completely fucked off. The current Under-21 squad should become the 1st team squad and build for the future (I would also include Rooney etc) and aim to win a tourenament by 2016 or 2018 as they are nowhere near ready enough now.
As it is, I will be making my debut at an England game (v Belgium, 2 June) although I'm more interested in seeing Fellaini than any of the England players and to be honest I'm only there for a weekend on the piss in London. The thought of going to see the 'Three Lions' doesn't excite me in the slightest, neither does listening to some brassband for 90 minutes.
As you rightly say, the boredom kicks in during the summer. A few football games will be a means to an end. I'll prob watch the Holland games (enjoyed watching their games during the World Cup).
God, I wish my job wasn't just Monday to Friday 9 till 5... I'd love to be working weekends this summer just to avoid the nothingless Saturdays. Roll on August! (Then guess what happens after the first three games... international break!!!)
As it is, I will be making my debut at an England game (v Belgium, 2 June) although I'm more interested in seeing Fellaini than any of the England players and to be honest I'm only there for a weekend on the piss in London. The thought of going to see the 'Three Lions' doesn't excite me in the slightest, neither does listening to some brassband for 90 minutes.
As you rightly say, the boredom kicks in during the summer. A few football games will be a means to an end. I'll prob watch the Holland games (enjoyed watching their games during the World Cup).
God, I wish my job wasn't just Monday to Friday 9 till 5... I'd love to be working weekends this summer just to avoid the nothingless Saturdays. Roll on August! (Then guess what happens after the first three games... international break!!!)
Cheers Peter. Will bear that in mind. If anybody knows anything about Amiens, Bielefeld, Szczecin, Gdansk, Poznan, Wolfsburg or Eindhoven all information is welcome. Also, how to make up with old friends after an ordeal could be of some use.
Thankful there is a major tournament to stop me going stir crazy, as always just want good exciting football matches to watch.
Because we breed carthorses for footballers I expect the usual ineffective England.
Because we breed carthorses for footballers I expect the usual ineffective England.
Playing in these games means there's a chance of injury.
Not playing means NO chance.
Playing also means there's a chance of players being goosed when the season kicks off and not getting a proper break.
Consequently, I hope no Everton players are selected for anyone.
(of course there's always the possibility, while away, of some daft twat driving a moped through a window but seriously...what are the chances of that?)
Not playing means NO chance.
Playing also means there's a chance of players being goosed when the season kicks off and not getting a proper break.
Consequently, I hope no Everton players are selected for anyone.
(of course there's always the possibility, while away, of some daft twat driving a moped through a window but seriously...what are the chances of that?)
I love international tournaments. I can't wait for it to start.
A summer with no football is like torture.
I think that due to the lack of expectation this time we might actually do quite well.
I definitely agree that we should take all the youngsters. There is no point going for "experience" because the only experience our players have is the experience of returning home as failures. Abject failures.
And with our players like Jonny,Jelavic and Gibson going it just makes it better.
A summer with no football is like torture.
I think that due to the lack of expectation this time we might actually do quite well.
I definitely agree that we should take all the youngsters. There is no point going for "experience" because the only experience our players have is the experience of returning home as failures. Abject failures.
And with our players like Jonny,Jelavic and Gibson going it just makes it better.
I'll enjoy watching teams from eastern Eurrope,they seem to be able to play as a team and not as individuals and are technically superior to us.
I couldnt give a toss about England anyway.If you think Moyes is bad with his favourites its even worse with England.It doesnt matter what kind of season a player has had as long as he plays for certain clubs he will be involved.As we will soon witness with the call ups of Carroll and Downing.
The euro's just gives me something to watch during the summer but as long as no Everton players get injured I could not care less.
I couldnt give a toss about England anyway.If you think Moyes is bad with his favourites its even worse with England.It doesnt matter what kind of season a player has had as long as he plays for certain clubs he will be involved.As we will soon witness with the call ups of Carroll and Downing.
The euro's just gives me something to watch during the summer but as long as no Everton players get injured I could not care less.
If we can convince ourselves that Gerrard, Lampard and Barry are only there because Rodwell, Wilshere and Cleverly are injured then we might feel a little bit better.
I hope England win but I won't feel as gutted as I used to if not.
I hope England win but I won't feel as gutted as I used to if not.
It would be great if we went with plenty of young lads to give them the experience of a big tournament. A lot of the older players won't be up to standard in a couple of years time (some aren't now!) so let the young ones play ? most people don't think we will go far anyway so what have we got to lose?
I seem to remember France doing something similar after their team didn't qualify for USA 1994 ? they got rid of all the older players and started new. They took some poundings but steadily gelled and went onto win back-to-back tournaments!
I seem to remember France doing something similar after their team didn't qualify for USA 1994 ? they got rid of all the older players and started new. They took some poundings but steadily gelled and went onto win back-to-back tournaments!
My England first 11 would be:
Hart
Walker, Cahill, Jagielka, Baines
Barry, Parker
Walcott, Gerrard, Young
Rooney (when available) or Crouch
Hart
Walker, Cahill, Jagielka, Baines
Barry, Parker
Walcott, Gerrard, Young
Rooney (when available) or Crouch
I just hope Croatia don't have a good run, qualifying at the top of their group with Jelly scoring 3 hat-tricks and a brace in the group stages.......
.......with the fucking pundits like Hansen and elbows Shearer drooling and masturbating over him and saying he needs to be at a BIG club to win things.
That would be the last we see of him.
Or am I just cynical?
.......with the fucking pundits like Hansen and elbows Shearer drooling and masturbating over him and saying he needs to be at a BIG club to win things.
That would be the last we see of him.
Or am I just cynical?
Come to think of it...if I was Woy I'd give Osman a go. He's more creative than anybody out of the old guard..... notwithstanding his shortcomings (pardon the play on words there!)
Dave you ARE cynical but spot on.
If Jelly has a blinder, there is very definitely the possibility of a sniff-fest from 'the haves' before the window closes.
And if that DID happen, I wouldn't fancy our chances of keeping him.
If Jelly has a blinder, there is very definitely the possibility of a sniff-fest from 'the haves' before the window closes.
And if that DID happen, I wouldn't fancy our chances of keeping him.
If Hodgson wants a different result than the last set of england managers he will have to change the personnel.
I'd be looking at getting players in who will be in their prime for the next world cup and making them a team that works as one, for each other. We all know the 'big' personalities haven't done that in the past and they won't now.
If he tries to shoeheorn Gerrad and Lampard into a midfield then I guarantee he'll be watching the latter stages from his couch with a P45.
I'd be looking at getting players in who will be in their prime for the next world cup and making them a team that works as one, for each other. We all know the 'big' personalities haven't done that in the past and they won't now.
If he tries to shoeheorn Gerrad and Lampard into a midfield then I guarantee he'll be watching the latter stages from his couch with a P45.
I agree Mark. It's likely England won't get far.
Nobody new and exciting has emerged in the England squad to warrant any great hopes of a strong showing. The ''old brigade''just don't cut it and the likes of Young, Downing, Lennon & company just don't rise to the occasion consistantly enough.
Wilshire would have been something to savour had he had a full competetive season at Arsenal but alas he didn't.
However it's the striking department which is really dodgy.
Even if Bent were fit I don't think he is world class and Defoe is getting too old.
Crouch cannot excel against the really formidable teams and Rooney will be missed in those first 2 games.
Hodgson has been thrown in too late and his choice of Neville as assistant is a joke.
Nobody new and exciting has emerged in the England squad to warrant any great hopes of a strong showing. The ''old brigade''just don't cut it and the likes of Young, Downing, Lennon & company just don't rise to the occasion consistantly enough.
Wilshire would have been something to savour had he had a full competetive season at Arsenal but alas he didn't.
However it's the striking department which is really dodgy.
Even if Bent were fit I don't think he is world class and Defoe is getting too old.
Crouch cannot excel against the really formidable teams and Rooney will be missed in those first 2 games.
Hodgson has been thrown in too late and his choice of Neville as assistant is a joke.
Normally could not care less about the international breaks and friendlies. The qualifiers rarely produce and upset and the friendlies I dont think will ever recover from Ericsson making 11 subs a game and thereby handing out caps like confetti. Getting a cap or two these days really means f'all, everyone pretty much has one.
International tournaments however are a different thing. These actually matter and in the heat of the moment upsets do occur and the underdogs can win> I love them to be honest and it also helps to plug the weeks of no footy and mindless transfer garbage that you get in the summer.
Don't care for England although I'd like to see Woy treated with more respect by the tabloid press than some of the more recent managers. They really do take far too much stick for just trying to do their job.
Add to that, it's a complete disgrace that Terry is even allowed to be selected. I know everyone is innocent until proven guilty but moving the trial date to after the Euros was just pathetic. Just so he would play out the season and the Euros before probably being banned. The guy is an absolute c*nt - pardon my French and I'm so happy he wont be playing the CL final.
International tournaments however are a different thing. These actually matter and in the heat of the moment upsets do occur and the underdogs can win> I love them to be honest and it also helps to plug the weeks of no footy and mindless transfer garbage that you get in the summer.
Don't care for England although I'd like to see Woy treated with more respect by the tabloid press than some of the more recent managers. They really do take far too much stick for just trying to do their job.
Add to that, it's a complete disgrace that Terry is even allowed to be selected. I know everyone is innocent until proven guilty but moving the trial date to after the Euros was just pathetic. Just so he would play out the season and the Euros before probably being banned. The guy is an absolute c*nt - pardon my French and I'm so happy he wont be playing the CL final.
I'll watch the Euros cos I think we have a great chance this year.
Engelbert is in fine form if he can just get past the threat of those old buddies from Russia.
Engelbert is in fine form if he can just get past the threat of those old buddies from Russia.
How can anyone who loves football not want to watch the best European footballers? Strange.
The European Championships is great summer viewing, barbie's and beer for the big games, the women seem a bit more interested than usual {never worked out why this is, but it's true in my family at least} Just don't expect England to play a big part in it, and please don't be putting those little plastic fucking flags on your cars if they manage to win a game, it's always a false dawn and always will be in my lifetime I reckon, those "knowledgeable" sports journos often describe England as serial under-performers, which is obviously bollocks, England perform to their ability, which is somewhere between the eighth to sixteenth best team in the world.
Alan Shearer summed up the English attitude when asked by Lineker if Grant Holt should go? Shearers response was that Holts form and goal scoring record doesn't matter, Crouch has more experience so he should go. Surely by that reasoning Lineker should go cos he has more experience than Crouch.
Shane 141, There is a great drinking spot between Gdanks an Gdinya. A town called Sopport. Its a beach front place with loads of bars (and quite a few girls).
I agree with a lot of the above posts. Firstly I could not care less what Ingerland achieve or don't at the Euros. But from the outside looking in, Hodgson is an idiotic if he selects the likes of Terry, Rio, Lampard, Gerrard. Hell even Joe Cole is being mentioned now! These players have had their day and got nowhere near when they came up against a decent side. Spain, Germany & Holland are vastly superior in every department. Rooney is probably the only player who would get into their sides.
Go with youth and play the likes of Chamberlain, Walcott, Sturridge, Johnson, Jones etc. Just my 2 cents.
A cheeky bet on Jelavic for golden boot will be my tip. Modric should give him decent supply.
Go with youth and play the likes of Chamberlain, Walcott, Sturridge, Johnson, Jones etc. Just my 2 cents.
A cheeky bet on Jelavic for golden boot will be my tip. Modric should give him decent supply.
Slightly against the trend here chaps, I love watching England second only to Everton. I've always been very patriotic, and if any of our teams are playing I'll watch. I've been to a few England One day Cricket International match's and the day out is absolutely superb. Already got my England v Aussies ticket for Old Trafford this July. So I wish the footy lads all the best for the Euro's and hopefully they'll do quite well.
I have a flag pole currently flying my Everton Flag, this will be taken down this weekend and moth balled till the new season starts, up will go the George Cross
This royal throne of kings, this sceptred isle,
This earth of majesty, this seat of Mars,
This other Eden, demi-paradise,
This fortress built by Nature for herself
Against infection and the hand of war,
This happy breed of men, this little world,
This precious stone set in the silver sea,
Which serves it in the office of a wall
Or as a moat defensive to a house,
Against the envy of less happier lands,?
This blessed plot, this earth, this realm, this England.
I have a flag pole currently flying my Everton Flag, this will be taken down this weekend and moth balled till the new season starts, up will go the George Cross
This royal throne of kings, this sceptred isle,
This earth of majesty, this seat of Mars,
This other Eden, demi-paradise,
This fortress built by Nature for herself
Against infection and the hand of war,
This happy breed of men, this little world,
This precious stone set in the silver sea,
Which serves it in the office of a wall
Or as a moat defensive to a house,
Against the envy of less happier lands,?
This blessed plot, this earth, this realm, this England.
Out of sheer curiosity I have listed the top point scoring English Strikers from the Sun's Fantasy Football game (I only chose the Sun as it was the most accessable!). Points are awarded for goals scored, performances etc throughout the whole season, so it will be interesting to compare these 'stats' to the strikers Hodgson chooses.
NOTE : The points are slightly skewed as they also take into account Cup and European games, so players from teams who get the furthest in the competitions have more chance of getting more points. Plus players who picked up injuries during the season whould obviously have played less.
1. Rooney 323
2. Crouch 157
3. Holt 149
4. Sturridge 138
5. D. Graham 134
6. Defoe 130
7.Wellbeck 108
8. A. Johnson 91
9. Carroll 82
10. K. Davies 79
11. Bent 75
12. Agbonlahor 73
13. Zamora 71
NOTE : The points are slightly skewed as they also take into account Cup and European games, so players from teams who get the furthest in the competitions have more chance of getting more points. Plus players who picked up injuries during the season whould obviously have played less.
1. Rooney 323
2. Crouch 157
3. Holt 149
4. Sturridge 138
5. D. Graham 134
6. Defoe 130
7.Wellbeck 108
8. A. Johnson 91
9. Carroll 82
10. K. Davies 79
11. Bent 75
12. Agbonlahor 73
13. Zamora 71
Kevin (374). Yes very poetic I'm sure.
Couple of things though.
1) The 'sceptered isle' and 'fortress built by nature' referred to, is surely Britain, NOT England.
(nb: a Britain containing the Welsh and Scots who, one suspects would root for a team of mass-muderers if they were playing England).
2) Beautiful and evocative as those words are, they don't really sound...erm.......what's the word?
Ah that's it - true!
Unless of course you actually think the French (for example) DO envy us.
That they lie on beaches in the South of France in the summer (nb: during their 8 - 10 weeks holidays a year) imagining the wonderful soupe de Poisson they're going to have later and think to themselves..
"Wish J'habite en England et was English! Parce'que Instead de laying sur la plage, j'could be sat dans la maison regardezing Jeremy Kyle et depressing le merde out de myself. Et lapres, por mon tea - mmm, fingers de la poisson avec 'oops de spaghetti"
For me 'England' was nailed by leathery-skinned 'Gal' in Sexy Beast.
"What, England? Nah. Fucking place. It's a dump. Don't make me laugh. Grey, grimy, sooty. What a shit hole. What a toilet. Every twat with a long face shuffling about, moaning, all worried. No thanks, not for me"
A tad harsh sure, but a LOT more accurate than jewels in sceptered wotsits.
Couple of things though.
1) The 'sceptered isle' and 'fortress built by nature' referred to, is surely Britain, NOT England.
(nb: a Britain containing the Welsh and Scots who, one suspects would root for a team of mass-muderers if they were playing England).
2) Beautiful and evocative as those words are, they don't really sound...erm.......what's the word?
Ah that's it - true!
Unless of course you actually think the French (for example) DO envy us.
That they lie on beaches in the South of France in the summer (nb: during their 8 - 10 weeks holidays a year) imagining the wonderful soupe de Poisson they're going to have later and think to themselves..
"Wish J'habite en England et was English! Parce'que Instead de laying sur la plage, j'could be sat dans la maison regardezing Jeremy Kyle et depressing le merde out de myself. Et lapres, por mon tea - mmm, fingers de la poisson avec 'oops de spaghetti"
For me 'England' was nailed by leathery-skinned 'Gal' in Sexy Beast.
"What, England? Nah. Fucking place. It's a dump. Don't make me laugh. Grey, grimy, sooty. What a shit hole. What a toilet. Every twat with a long face shuffling about, moaning, all worried. No thanks, not for me"
A tad harsh sure, but a LOT more accurate than jewels in sceptered wotsits.
Thanks Jim but it's the wrong side for us. It'll be a struggle for us to make Gdansk in time for the Spanish game so I won't be encouraging a detour north. Any other suggestions lads?
The squad has been announced,the usual suspects in the main.Proven big tournament failures like Lampard make the squad.This why I could not give a fuck about England.
Stuart Downing in the Squad. Says it all really. No Sturridge or Johnson.
That Midfield selection is pretty uninspired. New manager same old faces. Yawn!!!
That Midfield selection is pretty uninspired. New manager same old faces. Yawn!!!
Jack Butland is on stand-by. I genuinely just had to Google him as I have never heard of him before. Has played 24 games for League Two Cheltenham Town apparently, on loan from Brum, and has played a hand full of games for the England youth set-ups.
Downing in the squad, henderson on standby, Milner in, all ahead of Aaron Lennon whilst Carrol has two decent games only scores one goal and gets in ahead of a whole season of consistent goal scoring from Crouch in a so called worse team. Typical top 4 old boys club, even Gary Cahill was never even considered until he was on the move to Chelsea. The worst Liverpool team in a long time and we oculd have four of them in the starting line up for the Euros. Maybe Hodgson wants his old job back once Kenny gets the boot and he goes out of the Euros at the group stages.
I would say it's sad there are more former than current Everton players in the squad, but I'm not sad about it at all - & I hope that Baines gets minimal game time as well!
How did Downing and Henderson get in there?
And I'm not just questioning the decision because they play for the Shite...I'm questioning it because they ARE fucking shite!
Carroll is shite too but all England managers like a big bustler sitting on the bench so it was obviously him or Crouch and neither are good enough in my opinion....but Crouch would have got my vote if I'd have been asked to decide. Amazing what a ball bouncing of the back of your head while your eyes are closed into a Wembley goal can do isn't it?
And I'm not just questioning the decision because they play for the Shite...I'm questioning it because they ARE fucking shite!
Carroll is shite too but all England managers like a big bustler sitting on the bench so it was obviously him or Crouch and neither are good enough in my opinion....but Crouch would have got my vote if I'd have been asked to decide. Amazing what a ball bouncing of the back of your head while your eyes are closed into a Wembley goal can do isn't it?
Glen Johnson over Micah Richards and Downing over Adam Johnson? Shandy Carroll over a goal scoring Grant Holt? Wtf? Same old story. Quarters at best. I used to be one of the believers that would don the England flag and blast air horns until it dawned on me that England are shite and the same failing players continue to get picked.
What particularly annoys me is that when these so called experts mention their back four they always say Cole at left back, ignoring the fact that Baines has been far superior to the YTS shooting, hairdresser shagging twat for the past 3 years!
What particularly annoys me is that when these so called experts mention their back four they always say Cole at left back, ignoring the fact that Baines has been far superior to the YTS shooting, hairdresser shagging twat for the past 3 years!
I'm off to the Ukraine in 3 weeks to see the v France and v Sweden game and must say I can't wait (though the squad selection just put me off a bit).
It'll be my first (and 2nd) England game and I'm going there with the Blackpool mentality, as in, I'll follow the team, scream loudly, enjoy the ride and expect to fail.
I'm sure it'll be a good crack and I pray Carrol and Downing stay off the park. They really are cack.
Oh, and, if you're interested..
Hart
Johnson Terry Lescott Baines
Parker
The Ox ( or Walcott) Gerrard Young
Defoe Welbeck (then Rooney)
It'll be my first (and 2nd) England game and I'm going there with the Blackpool mentality, as in, I'll follow the team, scream loudly, enjoy the ride and expect to fail.
I'm sure it'll be a good crack and I pray Carrol and Downing stay off the park. They really are cack.
Oh, and, if you're interested..
Hart
Johnson Terry Lescott Baines
Parker
The Ox ( or Walcott) Gerrard Young
Defoe Welbeck (then Rooney)
The England squad is just like the Champions League, periodically ignoring players from unfashionable clubs no matter how good they are. Players then get hacked off and start agitating for a big move to get themselves international football. Lescott couldn't get a sniff of the England team when at Everton, he moved to City and has been selected ever since. its the same with Baines, there were rumours beforehand that he wasn't even going to get selected, one of the best left Backs in world football and certainly the best in the premier league yet almost not selected. Meanwhile Downing, Carrol, Johnson and almost Henderson walk in just for being associated with Liverpool. nothing to do with current form (or severe lack of in their case). Equally Crouch has gained selection in nearly every squad before he moved to Stoke, had one of his best ever seasons, and missed out to Carrol. No wonder no-one likes watching England.
For assessing each tie, the reasoning has to be: Is/was there an Everton player involved? If so, did/will he get injured, sent off or even score? If not, did/will he play well? Assuming the answer to the first question is 'no' at the outset then it is time to switch off your TV and go and do something more interesting instead because there is no danger of losing part of our overachieving yet threadbare squad.
I saw InGerLand play once years ago and the fans were the most repellent bunch of xenophobes I've encountered inside or outside football. Never again. After that experience I couldn't care. Small town violents with Daily Mail mentality. John Terry typifies them all.
I saw InGerLand play once years ago and the fans were the most repellent bunch of xenophobes I've encountered inside or outside football. Never again. After that experience I couldn't care. Small town violents with Daily Mail mentality. John Terry typifies them all.
Eugene, Thank you very much, I hope you thought I wrote that. It actually comes from Richard II Act 2 from that little known playwright errrm what's is name oh fuck me errr...that's right William Shakespeare.
I'm more into
"I know a Barmaid comes from Sale
Across her tits is the price of ale
The sames across her arse in brail
When I'm cleaning Windows
The girl next door from number 4
Make love to James Bond on the floor
She keeps on shouting Roger Moore
When I'm cleaning Windows"
I'm more into
"I know a Barmaid comes from Sale
Across her tits is the price of ale
The sames across her arse in brail
When I'm cleaning Windows
The girl next door from number 4
Make love to James Bond on the floor
She keeps on shouting Roger Moore
When I'm cleaning Windows"
As a Welshman, I am always amazed how apathetic England supporters are when it comes to international football. Seems the majority of the posts here confirm it. Shame on all of you.
So many other teams including Wales would give anything to be in a major soccer tournament, and you lot just dont give s shit...
So many other teams including Wales would give anything to be in a major soccer tournament, and you lot just dont give s shit...
Kevin (434) - you say...
"It actually comes from Richard II Act 2 from that little known playwright errrm what's is name oh fuck me errr...that's right William Shakespeare".
Well..are you sure about that?
Really REALLY sure?
I mean I'm not saying I dispute the possibility ENTIRELY, but more and more I think the evidence points to Shakespeare being merely a 'beard' for the REAL author, Edward de Vere, 17th Earl of Oxford.
One thing I CAN be sure of is that England will be (to use an Edward De Vere quote) the victims of 'the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune' (ie: better teams with better players and better managers).
"It actually comes from Richard II Act 2 from that little known playwright errrm what's is name oh fuck me errr...that's right William Shakespeare".
Well..are you sure about that?
Really REALLY sure?
I mean I'm not saying I dispute the possibility ENTIRELY, but more and more I think the evidence points to Shakespeare being merely a 'beard' for the REAL author, Edward de Vere, 17th Earl of Oxford.
One thing I CAN be sure of is that England will be (to use an Edward De Vere quote) the victims of 'the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune' (ie: better teams with better players and better managers).
Alun,
This may surprise you. There is really no such place as England except as an area of land encircled by drawn boundaries. The regions within England are so diverse, in fact probably even more diverse than the differences between 'England' and Wales or Scotland. That is why there is no particular 'English' sense of identity.
If I was to be pinned down, have cigars stubbed out on my arse and have my ayes gouged while being forced to explain where England was, I would have to say it is that land that would be enclosed by any one hour car journey from Tower Bridge on a Sunday morning.
I am called English because I was born within what is called England. But I get no sense of identity from that. I am a Northerner, a Scouse Northerner which is even better and I think I have more in common with the people of Glasgow than I do with the people of Basildon or Croydon.
That's the difference that you Celts don't understand!
That's the difference that many politicians don't understand either!
This may surprise you. There is really no such place as England except as an area of land encircled by drawn boundaries. The regions within England are so diverse, in fact probably even more diverse than the differences between 'England' and Wales or Scotland. That is why there is no particular 'English' sense of identity.
If I was to be pinned down, have cigars stubbed out on my arse and have my ayes gouged while being forced to explain where England was, I would have to say it is that land that would be enclosed by any one hour car journey from Tower Bridge on a Sunday morning.
I am called English because I was born within what is called England. But I get no sense of identity from that. I am a Northerner, a Scouse Northerner which is even better and I think I have more in common with the people of Glasgow than I do with the people of Basildon or Croydon.
That's the difference that you Celts don't understand!
That's the difference that many politicians don't understand either!
....that should have been 'eyes' not 'ayes'.
....see!! We English can't even decide who our national bard should be...or is. One possibility even sounds French...ask Eugene.
Alun jones, it all depends on how you view nation/belonging/patriotism etc.
Some tattoo themselves, some (like Kevin) wave flags about, some (me) couldn't give two shites (re pride - about the team OR the country)
My view of the world is that where our mothers happen to drop us is/was none my choice, so consequently (for me), the idea of 'pride' is beyond dumb..
I'm certainly happy I was lucky (key word - lucky) enough to be born in a place that doesn't have millions starving, or where it's not 100 degrees in the shade every day, or there's snakes or...
But..PRIDE?
Why?
From my perspective, I could just as easily say shame on you FOR giving a fuck about something that is down to sheer fluke.
And (lie all you want) if you DID have the choice of country, I'd bet my hole you wouldn't choose Wales.
Some tattoo themselves, some (like Kevin) wave flags about, some (me) couldn't give two shites (re pride - about the team OR the country)
My view of the world is that where our mothers happen to drop us is/was none my choice, so consequently (for me), the idea of 'pride' is beyond dumb..
I'm certainly happy I was lucky (key word - lucky) enough to be born in a place that doesn't have millions starving, or where it's not 100 degrees in the shade every day, or there's snakes or...
But..PRIDE?
Why?
From my perspective, I could just as easily say shame on you FOR giving a fuck about something that is down to sheer fluke.
And (lie all you want) if you DID have the choice of country, I'd bet my hole you wouldn't choose Wales.
Alun
I see myself as Scouse more than English.I'm proud to be English but not half as much as I am to be scouse which might explain why Everton means everything to me while England (who I see as a southern team) doesnt.
I see myself as Scouse more than English.I'm proud to be English but not half as much as I am to be scouse which might explain why Everton means everything to me while England (who I see as a southern team) doesnt.
Good points made by my namesake James above about Crouch. Who I don't rate by the way but by his standards he had a good season. Same with a lot of players though who don't play for Liverpool,Chelsea or Utd.
Also agree with Mark. Terry does typify the whole squad for me. Bunch of abhorrent tossers. Baines excluded. I hope they crash out and we can hear no more of them.
And your right Alun I don't give a shit and wouldn't even go to an England game if I were offered a free ticket. Everton are my only team. And there is no way I will ever support a team Captained by that wanker from the RS!
Also agree with Mark. Terry does typify the whole squad for me. Bunch of abhorrent tossers. Baines excluded. I hope they crash out and we can hear no more of them.
And your right Alun I don't give a shit and wouldn't even go to an England game if I were offered a free ticket. Everton are my only team. And there is no way I will ever support a team Captained by that wanker from the RS!
Take no notice of Eugene Dave, everyone knows Sir Francis Bacon really wrote all the plays. The name William, in olde English, means very good, the word Shakespeare mean writer, so make your own mind up.
The olde English for Eugene is "talks a lotta"
Have a guess what Ruane Means ?
Correct, with two L's
The olde English for Eugene is "talks a lotta"
Have a guess what Ruane Means ?
Correct, with two L's
Kevin (465) you say..
"The olde English for Eugene is "talks a lotta"
Have a guess what Ruane Means ? Correct, with two L's"
Two questions.
1) What was Bill Hicks REALLY like.
2) How did you first start writing for him?
"The olde English for Eugene is "talks a lotta"
Have a guess what Ruane Means ? Correct, with two L's"
Two questions.
1) What was Bill Hicks REALLY like.
2) How did you first start writing for him?
I'm lost Eugene but always intrigued when the great man's name is mentioned.
Another dead famous, or famously dead Willem Eugene.
The dark comedy Bill dished out was a bit like the first half of our season, you know felt like it was watching someone shag a dead bloke
The second half was more Ken Doddish who love him or hate him, was and still is fecking funny<
I told the Inland Revenue I didn?t owe them a penny because I lived near the seaside.
The dark comedy Bill dished out was a bit like the first half of our season, you know felt like it was watching someone shag a dead bloke
The second half was more Ken Doddish who love him or hate him, was and still is fecking funny<
I told the Inland Revenue I didn?t owe them a penny because I lived near the seaside.
Dalglish has been sacked.
Just thought I'd mention it.
The KIng is dead....long live the ......
Just thought I'd mention it.
The KIng is dead....long live the ......
Dave - Is that so? He's fired? Was hoping they'd keep him.
So was I. But the Shite never play fair and square!
Awful news that Dave. Really hope they don't get Rogers. He would be an awesome appointment so don't want him going there!
Martinez and the fat waiter are current favs.
Please not Martinez!!!!
I couldn't dislike Hodgson when he was in charge, he just seemed a genuinely nice guy, and Martinez is similar.
I like Liverpool's manager to be a real prick, arrogant and up his own arse, someone we can really rally round and hate. Benitez fits the bill nicely.
I couldn't dislike Hodgson when he was in charge, he just seemed a genuinely nice guy, and Martinez is similar.
I like Liverpool's manager to be a real prick, arrogant and up his own arse, someone we can really rally round and hate. Benitez fits the bill nicely.
They're not going to be able to attract the really big name managers unless Fenway Sports throw another £50 - £100 million into the kitty for replacing their dysfunctional midfield - they've ageing players who are going to represent negative sell on value and I've a funny feeling their bad boy 'tumbling ted Suarez' is going to pastures new.
I can't see Martinez or Rogers being invited to take the helm - they were badly burned by Roy Hodgeson - nope, they will look abroad... FSW? wouldn't surprise me - I hope they do - they'll be bankrupt in 2 years.
I can't see Martinez or Rogers being invited to take the helm - they were badly burned by Roy Hodgeson - nope, they will look abroad... FSW? wouldn't surprise me - I hope they do - they'll be bankrupt in 2 years.
You'll Never Walk Alone???
Yer certainly on yer todd now, Dogleash
Yer certainly on yer todd now, Dogleash
Eugene 444
"I mean I'm not saying I dispute the possibility ENTIRELY, but more and more I think the evidence points to Shakespeare being merely a 'beard' for the REAL author, Edward de Vere, 17th Earl of Oxford."
The above was suggested by a Looney though!
"I mean I'm not saying I dispute the possibility ENTIRELY, but more and more I think the evidence points to Shakespeare being merely a 'beard' for the REAL author, Edward de Vere, 17th Earl of Oxford."
The above was suggested by a Looney though!
Yes Andrew (560), I'm sure it was, my post was just a bit of frivolousness in response to (coincidentally) a loony.
Relax I think Shakespeare wrote Shakespeare...so to speak.
(nb: Dickens on the other hand never wrote a fucking carrot - it was all written by his physician, Dr Ernest Frederick Coggshackle).
Relax I think Shakespeare wrote Shakespeare...so to speak.
(nb: Dickens on the other hand never wrote a fucking carrot - it was all written by his physician, Dr Ernest Frederick Coggshackle).
Lee(391)
That list is very revealing about the problems in English football.
Aside from Rooney theres nothing there to rely on. As for the main striker up top, Bent is the only other one who has caps and has made a fist of it and he's out.
Crouch is not an international footballer, and provides no threat in behind anyway. He's way too static and unless the manager wants to take a risk and play 2 wide players (Capello would ony generally risk one and have Milner on the other side for balance and midfield solidity) theres no out ball you get pinned in your own half.
Crouch needs an out and out strike partner anyway.
Plus, whoever plays will always be selected to play with Rooney just behind, its Rooney and AN Other further ahead. Crouch cannot play with Rooney, it doesnt work.
I know Rooney is banned but this has been the thinking of English managers for years now. He was always nailed on to go despite his ban.
Strurridge to me looks a player with the potential to go far, Welbeck is up and down but also looks a player, can do the lone striker, still developing though.
If anyone seriously thinks Holt should go they are mad, its like saying Marcus Stewart or Kevin Phillips should have played for England.
Andy Cole bagged shitloads but i dont think he was international class. Holt just isnt an international player, its a completely different thing.
Defoe in the era of the lone striker the poacher is dead. He needs to play with another striker, ironically would probably work best with Crouch, and if you play with 2 up front in international football you will get killed in midfield.
We dont have anyone to replace Rooney for the "number 10" position either.
Theres nothing. Striker is the position most affected by the "foreign invasion". Barely any of the champions league teams use English strikers, English strikers never get exposed to top level football and we have to go with second tier players.
Sturridge and Welbeck are the future, well whichever one can play with Rooney anyway.
Hodgson would have been best swerving this its going to be a car crash, h'es barely been given a chance.
That list is very revealing about the problems in English football.
Aside from Rooney theres nothing there to rely on. As for the main striker up top, Bent is the only other one who has caps and has made a fist of it and he's out.
Crouch is not an international footballer, and provides no threat in behind anyway. He's way too static and unless the manager wants to take a risk and play 2 wide players (Capello would ony generally risk one and have Milner on the other side for balance and midfield solidity) theres no out ball you get pinned in your own half.
Crouch needs an out and out strike partner anyway.
Plus, whoever plays will always be selected to play with Rooney just behind, its Rooney and AN Other further ahead. Crouch cannot play with Rooney, it doesnt work.
I know Rooney is banned but this has been the thinking of English managers for years now. He was always nailed on to go despite his ban.
Strurridge to me looks a player with the potential to go far, Welbeck is up and down but also looks a player, can do the lone striker, still developing though.
If anyone seriously thinks Holt should go they are mad, its like saying Marcus Stewart or Kevin Phillips should have played for England.
Andy Cole bagged shitloads but i dont think he was international class. Holt just isnt an international player, its a completely different thing.
Defoe in the era of the lone striker the poacher is dead. He needs to play with another striker, ironically would probably work best with Crouch, and if you play with 2 up front in international football you will get killed in midfield.
We dont have anyone to replace Rooney for the "number 10" position either.
Theres nothing. Striker is the position most affected by the "foreign invasion". Barely any of the champions league teams use English strikers, English strikers never get exposed to top level football and we have to go with second tier players.
Sturridge and Welbeck are the future, well whichever one can play with Rooney anyway.
Hodgson would have been best swerving this its going to be a car crash, h'es barely been given a chance.
Eugene #402 can't really share your views about the relative merits of France over England.
I much prefer our beach in Benidorm to anything on the Cote d'Azur. Surrounded by middle aged men in ill fitting Speedoes and women with rather to much facial hair. And to add insult to injury ?5 for a bleeding pint of gassy beer. That's if you can get to the resort because the lorry drivers have blocked the Autoroute. And don't get me started on the food, steak that a good vet could revive usually served by Phillipe, a philosophy student who in the immortal words of Tango is all hair gel and loafers and likes to pretend he doesn't speak English!
As Dennis Miller said ' what can you expect from a nation that exerted more of It's national will fighting against Disney World and Big Macs than the Nazis'. Or to put an even finer point on it 'We can stand here like the French, or we can do something about it' ? Marge Simpson.
Vive la difference!
I much prefer our beach in Benidorm to anything on the Cote d'Azur. Surrounded by middle aged men in ill fitting Speedoes and women with rather to much facial hair. And to add insult to injury ?5 for a bleeding pint of gassy beer. That's if you can get to the resort because the lorry drivers have blocked the Autoroute. And don't get me started on the food, steak that a good vet could revive usually served by Phillipe, a philosophy student who in the immortal words of Tango is all hair gel and loafers and likes to pretend he doesn't speak English!
As Dennis Miller said ' what can you expect from a nation that exerted more of It's national will fighting against Disney World and Big Macs than the Nazis'. Or to put an even finer point on it 'We can stand here like the French, or we can do something about it' ? Marge Simpson.
Vive la difference!
No, sorry Eugene, it was his wife, Madame Emily Penworthy-Coggshackle who really wrote what is erroneously known as 'Dickens'.
She was also the first Toffee Lady...but not many people know that.
A LITTLE knowledge is such a dangerous thing.
She was also the first Toffee Lady...but not many people know that.
A LITTLE knowledge is such a dangerous thing.
Graham, there may be truth to some of what you say. However personally, I will forgive cowardice (something I actually consider eminently sensible) and I'm not averse to a hairy sort (being a young man in the 70s, I actually still prefer my close encounters to be of the 'furred kind'). Fact is, France, simply because it ISN'T Brit-friendly, is where I holiday EVERY year. I rent a house near Aix-En-Provence a couple of times a year and am guaranteed NOT to encounter mobs of brawling, dumb, boiled-shrimp looking Geordies or gangs of screeching satsuma-coloured scrubbers 'singing' "don't you want a girlfriend who's hot like me". Sheer...fucking...bliss.
(being a young man in the 70s, I actually still prefer my close encounters to be of the 'furred kind').
Brilliant.
Brilliant.
Anyone who talks about cowardice being a French national trait has obviously never read about Camerone, Verdun, the battles of the Marne, Dien Bien Fu etc...
1,700,000 men killed in WW1 alone!
And who the fuck do think conquered this freezing cold and wet little island in 1066 - the Brazilian fucking Navy?
1,700,000 men killed in WW1 alone!
And who the fuck do think conquered this freezing cold and wet little island in 1066 - the Brazilian fucking Navy?
Eugene
I sort of get it but to be honest I really like both so next two holidays will be sampling firstly the delights of Cafe Benidorm, Geordie slappers and all followed by a week in St Tropez where I shall spend a very pleasant day at Musee de l?Annonciade taking in Matisse and Signac? However, even though I secretly like France taking the piss out of the French is a fine age old English tradition.
After all the It is important to remember the French have always been there when they needed us!
I sort of get it but to be honest I really like both so next two holidays will be sampling firstly the delights of Cafe Benidorm, Geordie slappers and all followed by a week in St Tropez where I shall spend a very pleasant day at Musee de l?Annonciade taking in Matisse and Signac? However, even though I secretly like France taking the piss out of the French is a fine age old English tradition.
After all the It is important to remember the French have always been there when they needed us!
Fur is better - warms the ears
Talking of war and France, I'm saving 'All Hell Let Loose' for my hols (think Max Hastings is a twat but the reviews have been great right across the board).
Eugene 568
John Thomas Looney who wrote a book about Shakespeare and the 17th Earl.
Not a great name to go to school with!
John Thomas Looney who wrote a book about Shakespeare and the 17th Earl.
Not a great name to go to school with!
Re patriotism and football
So, England are playing Croatia and England have in their team Gerrard, Lampard, Terry, Downing, Lescott.... Jelavic is bearing down on goal - what would you really want to happen?
Now be honest....
Exactly
So, England are playing Croatia and England have in their team Gerrard, Lampard, Terry, Downing, Lescott.... Jelavic is bearing down on goal - what would you really want to happen?
Now be honest....
Exactly
Eugene
Great read, don't think you will be disappointed. The fact he writes for the Mail doesn't detract from him being one of the best military historians of recent times.
Great read, don't think you will be disappointed. The fact he writes for the Mail doesn't detract from him being one of the best military historians of recent times.
England peaked in 1970. Between 1970 and 90...debatable. 1990 to present, shite and getting shite-er.
Graham (617) that is VERY similar to what my mate (who first told me about the book) said.
ie: "He's one right wing twat but he knows his stuff!"
Andrew (610) the name John Thomas Looney would I imagine have been character-building.
Although...maybe his Shakespeare theory suggests his character made have been sent doo-lally after years of kids calling out 'penis crackpot!' or 'cock crazy-person' or..um..whatever.
ie: "He's one right wing twat but he knows his stuff!"
Andrew (610) the name John Thomas Looney would I imagine have been character-building.
Although...maybe his Shakespeare theory suggests his character made have been sent doo-lally after years of kids calling out 'penis crackpot!' or 'cock crazy-person' or..um..whatever.
Eugene, you just lost your hole and that's no lie....
If Jelavic has a great tournament and scores a lot of goals, then the big clubs should come calling. What will they be prepared to pay for this class goalscorer who makes scoring goals so simple? £20mil?
And if Fellaini goes for a similar amount, it would give Moyes £40m to rebuild and perhaps unearth 4-5 gems. This is the reality of football for Everton, unpalatable as it is.
And if Fellaini goes for a similar amount, it would give Moyes £40m to rebuild and perhaps unearth 4-5 gems. This is the reality of football for Everton, unpalatable as it is.
Alun (627), I said..
"And (lie all you want) if you DID have the choice of country, I'd bet my hole you wouldn't choose Wales".
Your response..
"Eugene, you just lost your hole and that's no lie...."
Yeah, right.
So this (hypothetical) scene would go..
Man in suit: "Well Alun, we've presented all the world's countries to you. Australia, The USA, France, Spain, Italy and the rest. We realise it won't be easy but basically, you now need to choose one to 'be from'. Take as long as you..."
You: "Wales!"
Man in suit: "No I don't think you understand, you can be from ANY country. You could be from New York or Paris or Milan or..."
You: "No really, Wales is fine"
Alun, your patriotism, is like all patriotism.
Based around the idea that a place is the best because you happen to be from there.
Fact, if you'd been born in Athens, Greece would be the best.
Consequently, my hole is going nowhere.
"And (lie all you want) if you DID have the choice of country, I'd bet my hole you wouldn't choose Wales".
Your response..
"Eugene, you just lost your hole and that's no lie...."
Yeah, right.
So this (hypothetical) scene would go..
Man in suit: "Well Alun, we've presented all the world's countries to you. Australia, The USA, France, Spain, Italy and the rest. We realise it won't be easy but basically, you now need to choose one to 'be from'. Take as long as you..."
You: "Wales!"
Man in suit: "No I don't think you understand, you can be from ANY country. You could be from New York or Paris or Milan or..."
You: "No really, Wales is fine"
Alun, your patriotism, is like all patriotism.
Based around the idea that a place is the best because you happen to be from there.
Fact, if you'd been born in Athens, Greece would be the best.
Consequently, my hole is going nowhere.
Eugene Ruane 748
"Fact, if you'd been born in Athens, Greece would be the best."
Except as witnessed on this thread, being English is not related to being born in England!!!
"Fact, if you'd been born in Athens, Greece would be the best."
Except as witnessed on this thread, being English is not related to being born in England!!!
I tend to agree with Eugene on the patriotism malarkey, Being English has never been important to me, and seeing England walk out at Wembley does nothing for me in terms of pride at being English, it's the same with any other sport as well, I have never felt connected to any team or individual representing England, the strange thing is, I have the completely opposite view on the area {Merseyside} where I was born, brought up and still live. I work away quite a lot and will bore anyone prepared to listen, on the merits of the area, and work tirelessly to dispel the stereotype images and urban myths that are repeated so often {particularly darn sarrf} that people actually believe them.
Eugene
Saying why would you want to live in Wales when you could live anywhere is like saying why Support Everton when you could support Barca.Some things you just cant explain and I feel like Alun but about Liverpool.My brother has emirgrated to Australia and wont shut up about me joining him cos Liverpool is a shit hole.I have no argument but i'd rather stay here even though he seems to be living the life of reilly.
Saying why would you want to live in Wales when you could live anywhere is like saying why Support Everton when you could support Barca.Some things you just cant explain and I feel like Alun but about Liverpool.My brother has emirgrated to Australia and wont shut up about me joining him cos Liverpool is a shit hole.I have no argument but i'd rather stay here even though he seems to be living the life of reilly.
Paul (785), completely different.
Why?
Because we have absolutely, 100% NO say in where we are born, but (despite the 'Take that gobshites!' notion that Evertonians are 'born') we DO have a say in who our team is (or isn't).
Agreed, supporting Everton might not make much sense, but that is a different argument.
What I was suggesting was simply if we were all born on another planet, then, aged 20, came to earth and had to choose a country, based on a presentation of what they had to offer, the chances of Alun choosing Wales would be slim to none.
(and Alun refuting this, BECAUSE he's patriotic, actually helps my argument).
To be honest, It has always baffled me that almost everyone from..erm...EVERYWHERE seem 'proud' of the fact.
Go to the world's worst rat-holes and within 10 minutes there'll be someone telling you how proud they are of the place.
Duped imo - in fact it's probably WHY we have national competitions and days, so we can wave flags and be proud and (so to speak) take our eye off the ball.
Come to think of it, I'm guessing governments love us being patriotic and proud.
I mean if you took away this distraction, they might have to deal with millions of people suddenly realising how shite their lives are and how they're getting screwed every day of their lives.
Shit, if that happened, people might start taking to the streets and demanding rights and stuff.
Pass me that flag...QUICK!!
Why?
Because we have absolutely, 100% NO say in where we are born, but (despite the 'Take that gobshites!' notion that Evertonians are 'born') we DO have a say in who our team is (or isn't).
Agreed, supporting Everton might not make much sense, but that is a different argument.
What I was suggesting was simply if we were all born on another planet, then, aged 20, came to earth and had to choose a country, based on a presentation of what they had to offer, the chances of Alun choosing Wales would be slim to none.
(and Alun refuting this, BECAUSE he's patriotic, actually helps my argument).
To be honest, It has always baffled me that almost everyone from..erm...EVERYWHERE seem 'proud' of the fact.
Go to the world's worst rat-holes and within 10 minutes there'll be someone telling you how proud they are of the place.
Duped imo - in fact it's probably WHY we have national competitions and days, so we can wave flags and be proud and (so to speak) take our eye off the ball.
Come to think of it, I'm guessing governments love us being patriotic and proud.
I mean if you took away this distraction, they might have to deal with millions of people suddenly realising how shite their lives are and how they're getting screwed every day of their lives.
Shit, if that happened, people might start taking to the streets and demanding rights and stuff.
Pass me that flag...QUICK!!
Eugene
Fair point,If you have no prior connection to a place then chances are you would choose elsewhere to live.As you say you have no choice where you are born but that doesnt mean you cant become proud of a place.I've enjoyed going on holiday,seeing different places and I loved my time working in Holland but have to admit being happier when I am home.Each to their own I suppose.
Fair point,If you have no prior connection to a place then chances are you would choose elsewhere to live.As you say you have no choice where you are born but that doesnt mean you cant become proud of a place.I've enjoyed going on holiday,seeing different places and I loved my time working in Holland but have to admit being happier when I am home.Each to their own I suppose.
Eugene, actually what i should have said based on the fact that i was brought up Welsh and lived in Wales for the formative part of my life now means its part of me and will never leave me, i could no more choose another country to be "from" than i could chose another team to support. If thats patriotism i embrace it.
Of course your argument about having freedom of choice to choose where u are from can indeed only be done if you are beamed down offworld with having no ties with any country in the world. Based on that scenario it would be statistically unlikely i would choose Wales you are correct as my first 20 years would have had no affinity with any country and there would be so many countries to choose from.
But this is not about logic its about feelings and emotions and how you have been shaped by your country of origin. Its a feeling i share with alot of welshmen and also quite a few irish i know. The fact that you cant understand it does not mean its not valid and your sceptism that i would choose to remain Welsh is misplaced and your argument that i would not choose wales if i came from the moon completely misses the point
Of course your argument about having freedom of choice to choose where u are from can indeed only be done if you are beamed down offworld with having no ties with any country in the world. Based on that scenario it would be statistically unlikely i would choose Wales you are correct as my first 20 years would have had no affinity with any country and there would be so many countries to choose from.
But this is not about logic its about feelings and emotions and how you have been shaped by your country of origin. Its a feeling i share with alot of welshmen and also quite a few irish i know. The fact that you cant understand it does not mean its not valid and your sceptism that i would choose to remain Welsh is misplaced and your argument that i would not choose wales if i came from the moon completely misses the point
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