Have you read Toffeeweb before John?! I like your post, and basically agree with the sentiment. I'd rather be us finishing seventh than Man City finishing first.

Prepare to be told you're holding the club back, not a real blue and all sorts of other shit though, simply for daring to think there's more to supporting a football club than the number of trophies you win.

Although I still expect (hope?) that we will be challenging for trophies and league positions that actually mean something, it could be worse ! Spare a thought for the long suffering Hibernian supporters. 110 years since they last won the Scottish Cup (in 1902 so no supporter alive who would remember that) and currently losing 4-1 to their city rivals, Hearts, and also down to 10 men.....

To be fair John, at your age you probably don't have much use for your right nut. Just as well - as half the contributors to this site are about to verbally remove them for you for the Kenwright comment.

COYB!

Mike, did any of those 48,000 City fans last week think "This is not us, I wish we where still like Everton?"

Did they shite... and don't say, "Oh but we are Everton we are different to them, they have been through far worse than us too and I have developed a dislike to them now when I used to think they where similar to us, the dislike is down to one word, Jealousy.

And lets be honest here, all those crammed in that ground were working class fans getting their reward for loyalty, that was not a ground full of Sky jumpers on like Chelsea and co have, although that no doubt will change and no doubt elder City heads will reminisce about the `good old day` one day, but would they ever wish what has happened to them to never have happened?
Each to their own Mike, but if we ever won the league with seconds to go against them fuckers across the park buy spending millions I would die a very happy man.

So John ? Just so I have this right:

You love Moyes.

You love Phil Neville.

Hibbert was possibly our best player after Christmas.

You're (takes deep breath) proud of Bill Kenwright.

You're proud of how the club takes care of the fans.

And Dalglish just lost his job because of... us.

Tip: Whatever your dosage, treble it.

Oh, and you wrote the line...

"I am so proud that Kenwright is our chairman".

No need really to say anymore.

I'm sure there are times when even Mr Krankie tells himself he's the luckiest man in the world to have his beautiful wife 'Wee Jimmy' hanging off his arm, but you just know that when he's home alone, and there's no one around to hear, the curly headed fuck sobs uncontollably in the bath at the thought of crawling into bed next to a real life Chucky doll.

Haha spot on, Eugene.
Kenwrights grinch like smirk alone makes me sick. Give me City's money any day. It's a short life and in mine I actually want to see us win something again ('95).

John, believe me, I respect your post and wish I could feel as you do. Mike Allison I think your comment is a little cynical. I doubt that any one will accuse John of not being a "real blue". In fact the few comments I have read like that tend to be from those who dislike criticism of the current regime.

John, you seem to imply that Everton hold some sort of moral high ground that compels us to do things the right way; indeed the Everton way. If this were true it would be a fine thing. In my view, though, the Everton way is formed by being skint and having a potless luvvy chairman. The nobility of poverty indeed.

If the stories in the press were true then Mr Krankie wouldn't have sobbing in the bath :0)

"Panto legends The Krankies have admitted to being secret swingers with an "anywhere, anytime" attitude to sex.

The husband and wife team Ian and Janette Tough today revealed they had multiple partners at the height of their fame.

And the couple claim they had to give up sleeping around to prevent their lovers getting jealous.

Ian, 64, told the Daily Record the kids' favourites enjoyed sex on golf courses, adding: "Jersey was good."

And Janette said: "We went out for Sunday lunch one day and got a bit romantic out at sea.

"We nearly ended up in France. I couldn't make it last that long now."

The couple admitted they were "wilder than rock stars" on tour and would often drink to excess.

Janette said: "It wasn't years or months or anything like that. It was when we were on tour."

Ian added: "Status Quo lent us their coach once and when we gave it back they said, 'Blinking heck, this is worse than if we'd lent it to a rock show and this was for a kids' show'."

Ian also revealed he used to enjoy streaking.

He said: "We were in our early thirties and we got fame and went a bit berserk. Luckily we didn't get into drugs, like they do today, but we were wild.

"I used to run round housing estates with nothing on for a bet.

"We were party people."

The couple were 18 when they met and married just three years later. They have been together for 43 years".

I don't understand this post at all. If you have been an Everton fan since 1963 you will have seen us win league titles, FA cups and the Cup winners cup so surely you want to see more of that. Yet we have had Moyes/Kenwright for 10 years and you are happy with not winning anything and no prospect of a trophy. That just does not make sense especially as you claim you have watched plenty of games so you know how shite we have been. That's simply weird.

And another thing the club treat the fans like crap - they dont give a toss about us. Where did you get the idea they treat us well. Unbelievable.

Ok

I'll buy it, why are you proud of Bill then, John??

Also, not totally convinced they care so much about the kids and fans. I think they care far more for the stream of cash that we put into the club to keep it afloat.

It's on record that Bill and his fellow directors don't put a penny in (or take any for that matter) but I can't think of any credible reason to be proud of him.

Please prove me wrong.

John Daley, you started it. Richard, your knowledge of the Krankies commands nothing less than awe. Michael Kenrick the stuff we don't get to see must be magnificent. How about Toffeeweb uncut?

I think Richard must be one of the Krankies.

Be fun for us if it was, Andy. But nothing like this; personally, I'm shocked!

Yesterday, re Pienaar, Peter Davies explained...

"...as he is smaller than average a higher percentage of his body is nearer the centre of the earth's mass compared to taller people. This means that time, on average, will run slightly slower for him".

Lucky for Mrs Krankie then.

Presumably when she's standing bollocko on a golfie in the Channel Islands, receiving a portion from a complete stranger, it feels like she's getting more goosing time than it would for say..Miranda

Andy I've seen exactly those sorts of comments aimed at people who don't see supporting Everton as a 'win at all costs' exercise.

Paul, thanks for telling me what I think, it saves me the effort. I'd love to win the league having spent millions don't get me wrong, but I'd much rather win the league having had to work our arses off scrimping and saving, building a team slowly and carefully in the old fashioned way, maybe bringing our own young players through and seeing them develop as footballers, rather than buying in a train-set's worth of mercenaries using outrageous amounts of oil money from corrupt regimes whose family members torture business rivals with impunity.

If someone that rich came to Merseyside I'd rather they set up businesses, boosted the local economy and got people jobs than pay £190,000 a week to footballers who consider a mere 70-80,000 a week to be beneath them. Maybe then more people could afford to go to the game and the club could prosper in a more self-sustaining way.

Mike, in your dreams so would I ,but that ain't going to happen , money talks .

Mick, this is the problem; we are not the team of the 80's. If everyone could refer to history for success, we'd still be outside the top four. Success can only be considered relative to our means, and consequently, seventh was succes. That will not change until Kenwright leaves and we can actually compete like we should be able to.

Mike, I agree entirely with your last paragraph.

John - you're a brave man on this site - just as well you live in DC or the loonies would be tracking your IP address. Stone him!

Some contributors just seem to be filled with bile and shite. You can't harbour an opinion that differs from their's - even though they have bugger all in the way of solutions - except "Sack Moyes - kick Kenwright out."

And then?

Presumably, in their soft cell, coloured crayoned environment, Dixie Dean appears to Sir David French pointing out that all the hidden billions are under Kendall's empties. Happy days!

You didn't leave the UK because of a previous posting on this site did you?

Well said John, glad to see there are some Evertonians who haven't changed their middle names to Machiavelli. Some people on here have a breakdown if we get an away draw and claim that Moyes is a tactically inept dour bufoon who is lucky not to have ende dup in the championship. One bad performance from players who have performed well for seasons on end is used to brand them as useless and undeserving of a place in any premier league side. Neville's 35, and how many times has he been ran past this season at RB? Same with Hibbert, everyone knows their limitations but in terms of positional play, experience, and defending against top quality opposition there haven't been many better in the prem this season.

Kenwright has made mistakes, everyone knows them, but he's not the devil incarnate that people make him out to be. He still ridiculously gets accused of taking money out of the club, and is generally regarded as the worst chairman to ever walk the face of the earth. I'm sure if you asked fans of Rangers, Leeds, Portsmouth , and probably even Liverpool, they'd say something different.

John, Fair play.

You can tell it's the close season.

People are getting excited about the little twat in The Krankies getting nailed on a golf course in the English Channel.

And her husband flashing his nasty on a counsil estate in Glasgow.

The recurring vision I keep getting is of Jimmy Krankie giving a BJ without even having to kneel down.

Good article John. Like you, I've seen Everton do most of what I could have hoped for as a kid. The European Cup would have been nice, but what the hey.

Unfortunately the young (and to be honest, not so young) Blues of today can't sustain themselves on OUR memories. If that night in Rotterdam, or cramming Goodison to clinch the Title, are ever to be repeated for our kids it can only be via the rich foreign owner/£150,000 a week player model. Short of wage caps, end to Champions League/Bosman etc etc anything else is dreaming. In twenty years of the Premier League this model has not been breached once - nor will it be.

Eugene - I thought your response was a bit unworthy. Well below your usual humorous/acerbic level.

Good article John, you are similar in age and viewpoint to me. I'm also very proud of what we have done on such limited resources and then to play such excellent football at the end of the season. I'd far better see EFC as they are now than be a franchise club like LFC, City, United or Chelsea

I think the views on this board are also moving slowly to that position. I believe that most accept now that we are broke and don't have the resources to compete at the highest level.

Good article John.

Good in that you have gathered a few morons to a cause.

Moron's who seem to think if you don't post about how great everything is your less of an Evertonian than them, despite at least half having confessed to not going to matches or anything else.

Your clearly such a big blue you haven't spent a minute of your time bothering to find out what's really going on at the club and how the fella your so proud of has taken this institution to the brink on more than one occassion.

Keep telling yourself "we are Everton" over and over while those who genuinely give a fuck try and do something to get rid of the worst owner(s) in our history.

The debates on who would replace Moyes and BK have been raging for years. Perhaps "we are specsavers" might be a more appropriate motto?

Stephen, just out of interest do you read my post above as being one of a 'moron' who subscribes to the view that everything in the garden is rosy? If so, I think you need to revisit your definition of 'moron' and perhaps visit Specsavers yourself.

John I am a year older than you and also live in the US now but that is where our similarities end.

Like you I had the privilege of watching all the great sides assembled then disassembled with the achievements of the 80's a very special time for me.

However since then so much has changed in football somewhat initiated by us as one of the "Big five" and Phil Carter.

The premier league is now a money making machine that has sadly placed so much power into the hands of agents and players.

However that challenge is the same for all clubs and requires sound businessmen on board to manage their club's advances.

That is where I have a fundamental disagreement with you.

Kenwright and "Friends of Everton" have systematically ripped the guts out of our club whilst deceiving the fans on a massive scale.

I do not consider Bill Kenwright one of us and I dont think he truly sees himself that way either with his deceiptful plan to take us to Kirkby and calling fans groups traitors for revealing the truth about the way the club is being run.

Any resistance or criticism of him or his regime is put down with brutal lack of feeling.

For me the man is a lying, incompetent egotist who is not fit to be chairman of Everton.

Achievements on the field however sporadic have been despite him and his board and not because of them.

His policy of "robbing Peter to pay Paul" is totally unsustainable and will come back to haunt all those who support him.

Agree with avoiding american owners, nothing against americans lovely people, but "ill informed carpet baggers" comes to mind seeing the Glazers, Lerner, H&G and now FSG.

Can't agree with the rest of the OP, the "Kenwright... well run club" seems particularly unresearched (I'm being kind there), the "special club" epithet is all about success Tranmere a few miles away aren't "special" because they're shit.

We're headed that way in part due to Kenwright being unable/unwilling to sell/find an investor and as for complaining about the big money aspect of footy it's very likely you wouldn't get your televised Everton if such money wasn't swilling around.

Jelavic would have been my back half player of season by the way.

All he said was he is proud to be an Evertonian and wouldn't swap that for the success other teams have. To me that is a fair statement, i for one would rather support EFC in the 4th division than be a red shite fan. Some things you cannot buy....

So your proud to have a bullshitter running the club John? A man who wanting to keep the club as his own train set, fucked our chances of having probalby one of the best stadiums in Europe. Someone who banned AGM's to stop uncomfortable questions being asked. A man who was willing to move us out to a second rate off the shelf stadium, and used scaremongering tactics like, Goodison wouldn't get fire safety certificates etc, to try and get what he wanted.

Yeah, proud to have the man running our club!

Brian,

No, not at all.

John (306) - You say..

"To Eugene, by your comments, I take it you don?t support our Chairman".

DURRR!!

John, why don't you post the following question.

"Do you support our chairman or would you like to see him gone because you see him as a proven liar who has slowly fucked us?"

Buy yourself an adult nappy (diaper!) first though, because I've a feeling when you see the answers, you'll shit yourself.

You say "call me naive"

Done!

I love all the comments, but I have four points for feedback. I have followed ToffeeWeb for years and love the banter, but please let's understand where we are.

1. To Jim ? I can do more with one nut than?

2. To Eugene, by your comments, I take it you don?t support our Chairman, Manager, Captain and a Scouser right back who has been with the team since he was a kid? And also a club that got the buses for the fans to take to Sunderland and the kids tickets prices for some of the games. Please tell me who?s is going to replace Moyes, BK? And please tell me why we have received only one offer for the club in the past three years?

3. Again in response to Eugene, and this is what the main purpose of my posting was about, would you have or want MU and RS owners? My answer is NO, NO, NO!

Yes, I am proud of BK, because he is a bluenose and unlike any Yankee owners, he is trying to do the best for our team and not for his own balance sheet. And the point I was making is, I would rather have him than John Henry who is only owning the RS for the sale ? just watch the Boston Red Sox over the next few years, and when he sells them, how much money he makes... the poor bastard could not shake his own manager?s hand after the Cup Final ? can you imagine Kenwright doing that? ? is THIS the club you want!? He will try to get his money in 5 years time and that is why they fired KD and for a quick return. Oh and by the way, on the point I was making about Everton getting him (KD) fired, if the RS were above us, he would not have gone ? just look at USA sports tables for that.

BK will be a blue for all his life and not for the 1-10 years he is a chairman. Do I think we need fresh investment? Yes! But let's get the right long-term investment. BK will sell the team, but I believe to the right hands.

If we are going to be a global brand, great; on that note, I sat in a packed bar in Washington DC watching Chelsea; when they knew I was a blue, everyone started talked about TH and LD and did I think we are going to sign CD from Fulham? They were more interested in that than the match.

So the way forward is clear, we have to become a worldwide club In the next ten years, but let's do it the right way and have a club that is not picked over by bad owners for short-term profits. I truly believe BK will get us there.

My overall thinking in the original post, if we were taken over by some Yanks/Indians or Russians tomorrow and they fired Moyes, is that really the club we want to be?

I'm not sure that anybody has said that the people who run EFC are without fault and as I've pointed out many times, a lot of the criticisms of the owners are often based on myth, prejudice and half truths. I still feel that John is correct in his basic premise though that there is much to be proud of in how the team has played given our dire financial straits.

The directors aren't obliged to put their own money into the club and any investor would be crazy to do so unless it was of sufficient magnitude to turn the club on to a sustainable and profitable course. What we have now isn't sustainable but we are doing well despite that. What is sustainable for a dying giant like EFC? It could be the Championship or below.

So Martin, just what are these myths and half truths?

Care to expose them?

Exactly Eric, I would also like to see a full 'myth' list.

Whenever you like Martin.

Posts on this thread jumping about like...a thing that jumps about a lot on threads.

I responded to a post from John.

His post then vanished and appeared AFTER my response.

Not a big deal, in fact on the strength of it, I might be able to pick up some Dereck Acorah-style work.

"I'm gerrin the word......NONCE!" Hey don't shoot the messenger!"

Or it could be Sir John from the 'other side', trying to tell us something (my guess, fuck off Bill!)

Eugene/Eric, no problem mate but I don't need to. A while back I asked for people to show the credibility of some of the statements they were making about people like BK and I didn't get any answers.

Martin that is a total cop out.

You were the one that claimed there were myths and half truths in other words fellow Evertonians were lying.

So the onus is on you to expose these so called "Myths and half truths".

Not at all mate, I have shown what I said to be so and it doesn't in anyway imply that fellow Evertonians are liars. We all live lives that are governed by myths, prejudices and half truths told to us by parents and friends and we accept them as fact. It doesn't make us liars only influenceable just like a kid bellieving in Santa Claus. John is entitled to his views and believe me they are shared by many good Evertonians.

I can't go through all of the myths and half truths because I'd need the space of a large novel and we'd all end up arguing which I definitely don't want but just as an example, would you say that, the following statements are fact about BK and the board?

They've been criminally negligent?
They've been wilfully negligent?
They have dragged the club down?

For every statement like this there are a multitude of alternative views (and long may we have different views) and it doesn't make the holder of those views a moron.

Best wishes

This has been an interesting exercise in seeing who would respond to John's article with wit, reflection, calm challenge and then the usual you are a moron, f**king whatever.

Good to see so many posters allowed John the right to have a different point of view.

Martin, out of the 3 options.. I would go for the last one. Dragged the club down.
You will come back with league positions no doubt.
I base my opinion on the following:
Kings Dock 'ringfenced'.
Goodisons safety certificate.
Finch Farm.
An overdraft / mortgages and loan re-payment plans that has meant our chances of sucess on the field have been limited.

Like you rightly say, we all differ in our opinions, and thats why is enjoy this site..

Martin #662 you were given answers, you just chose to ignore them and instead posted your own misinformation and half truths.

Martin, which of the following is a half truth or myth?

Kenwright stated to LCC that Everton's contribution to Kings Dock was ringfenced ? only it wasn't.

Kenwright, when questioned on the validity of Fortress Sports Fund, assured everyone that "the cheque will be in the bank in the morning" ? it wasn't and the whole thing was proven to be a sham.

Kenwright and "friends of Everton" claimed the club was for sale, then totally contradicted themselves on the DK project by stating on public record that none of the directors was prepared to sell their shares.

Keith Wyness, speaking on behalf of the board, claimed that Goodison would fail its safety certificate within 2 years ? subsequently proven to be a total lie.

Kenwright and Elstone claimed the money from the sale of Arteta was not going to the bank ? guess what? It was and it did.

Kenwright "Manny Fernandes will be signing in the morning" ? he was partially correct... he signed for Valencia instead and claimed he had not received an offer from EFC.

I could go on and in fact somebody will be able to write a book one day on the litany of lies and deceipt that have come out of GP since Kenwright took over.

One other point: Any chairman who oversees a rise in unexplained Operating Costs from £1 million to £24 million per year and then claims he does not know what they are is either totally incompetent or a really good liar ? or both.