Season 2011-12
The Mail Bag
Hope
31 Comments: I always get very hopeful this time of year. Hopeful that next season might be the one. The one were we start the way we usually end a season and finally cofinally have waited since 88 for this year to come.
I think 2012-13 is going to be different because we have Jelavic. We have found the missing link. This boy is special. Before he came, we were the 17th highest scorers and ended as the 8th. We were top 4 from February and we have more hope in a few players.....
Johnny H looks a world beater now; Fellaini is starting to peak and believe he can dominate games. Imagine Man Utd with him. They wouldn't have lost the league.
Our squad has good balance and several prospects in Barkley, Garbutt, Vellios, Gueye, Green and players like Jagielka, Baines, Howard, Osman are at their peak.
The big worry is losing Pienaar. We have to get him back at any cost.
I believe with just two additional shrewd signings, we would be able to challenge the top 4. In 1983, buying Reid and Gray (two winners), we transformed a very good side into a great one.
I hope Moyes pulls his finger out this summer and grabs the final pieces of his jigsaw quickly.
I don't play Champ Manager, this is merely my opinion but my two would be:
Victor Moses. We need to get this boy if we can afford him.
Angel Rangel
With these two in the team I would certainly hear even more hope for next year:
Howard
Rangel
Baines
Jagielka
Heitinga
Fellaini
Gibson
Osman
Pienaar
Moses
Jelavic
Bench: Neville, Distin, Barkley, Cahill, Vellios, Gueye
Am I being too hopeful that this season is THE one?
Nick Edwards, Posted 22/05/2012 at 21:03:47
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Nick, I like your optimism but can we all just keep some perspective over the summer months? We did this two years back saying we could even win the title. Sure enough, we got off to a crap start.
Last year we lost the opener at home to QPR.
Let's not start bigging up our players as though we are contenders only to be naming those same players as not fit to wear the shirt come October.
Last year we lost the opener at home to QPR.
Let's not start bigging up our players as though we are contenders only to be naming those same players as not fit to wear the shirt come October.
2 signings away to win the league. I would say 3. ...... Messi ronaldo and Van Persie !
We've yet to see if we need to sell to appease the banks, let alone buy anyone. Therefore I'm keeping my optimism in check and will watch this space, 24/7 etc.
Matt (151) Exactly.
I see so many wishful-thinking posts about 'if we get this feller or that feller', this could happen.
All harmless speculation, but the reality surely is we are watched every day by the banks and depending on all kinds of stuff (ie: time, interest rates, player valuations etc) and if a big dollop of money comes in, they'll want most, if not all of it.
I know it's hard to do, but imagine you were the incredibly successful head of The Bank Of You.
And a club you had no love for (because you're a 'rugger' type) owed you millions and seemed (because of their goosed finances) as though, financially, they didn't have a clue.
Now I have NO idea exactly how real banks 'work' with clubs, but if I was the Eugene Bank and Everton (not Wasps!) owed me millions, they would be receiving the following letter.
"Dear Luvvington. You owe me money. Consequently, from here on, I talk, you listen. From today, you will connect my bank to your club internet, so I can see ALL correspondence and can be aware of any offer for any player coming in. If I decide ANY offer is worth it, the player goes - no ifs, buts or maybes. NO player will be bought OR sold without the bank of Eugene say-so. ALL club wage talks to be negotiated at the bank, with me in attendance. ALL club expenses to be signed by the bank. In short, because you have run up huge debt and have only players to sell, ALL financial matters will now be handled by the bank of me. Don't agree? No more Everton. Your choice"
By the way, any TW'ers looking for a decent rate of interest on their savi.....oh shit, just remembered, I don't actually have my own bank.
I see so many wishful-thinking posts about 'if we get this feller or that feller', this could happen.
All harmless speculation, but the reality surely is we are watched every day by the banks and depending on all kinds of stuff (ie: time, interest rates, player valuations etc) and if a big dollop of money comes in, they'll want most, if not all of it.
I know it's hard to do, but imagine you were the incredibly successful head of The Bank Of You.
And a club you had no love for (because you're a 'rugger' type) owed you millions and seemed (because of their goosed finances) as though, financially, they didn't have a clue.
Now I have NO idea exactly how real banks 'work' with clubs, but if I was the Eugene Bank and Everton (not Wasps!) owed me millions, they would be receiving the following letter.
"Dear Luvvington. You owe me money. Consequently, from here on, I talk, you listen. From today, you will connect my bank to your club internet, so I can see ALL correspondence and can be aware of any offer for any player coming in. If I decide ANY offer is worth it, the player goes - no ifs, buts or maybes. NO player will be bought OR sold without the bank of Eugene say-so. ALL club wage talks to be negotiated at the bank, with me in attendance. ALL club expenses to be signed by the bank. In short, because you have run up huge debt and have only players to sell, ALL financial matters will now be handled by the bank of me. Don't agree? No more Everton. Your choice"
By the way, any TW'ers looking for a decent rate of interest on their savi.....oh shit, just remembered, I don't actually have my own bank.
This is what happens when Everton's not playing for a few weeks. But you'll soon be back to the depressive bitter reality once the season starts, you watch the team play as if pre-season completely flew by them, and we lose to Reading.
Over 21000 season tickets sold already, amazing what a bit of hope/optimism can do.
Now tell Fergie to do one re Baines and get on the blower to Arsne re Jags, then use that cash to sign Peanuts and a couple of freebies then onwards and upwards !
Now tell Fergie to do one re Baines and get on the blower to Arsne re Jags, then use that cash to sign Peanuts and a couple of freebies then onwards and upwards !
I remember an article like this last year.
I joined in the fun. Eugene went off his head. I called him a "miserable twat".
Nothing wrong with optimism. I do it every summer.
But this year I feel a bit different. I just can't see us buying anyone without selling first. So the squad just treads water, in a sense. I think Ive had enough of being let down so I'm expecting the same shit start and hopefully I will be pleasantly suprised. Although this could all change after a few weeks and I will be dreaming of a top 4 finish and a cup win.
I'm hoping Jelavic will be the difference but then he's going to the Euros so he might be knackered next season. He is 28/1 to be top scorer at the Euros....I'm having some of that.
By the way, my best mate just rang me. According to Talksport Manure have bid £12m for Baines.
I said that is nowhere near enough. He thought £15m was right for a "27yr old full back". I think £20 is far more accurate.
I hope he doesn't go but in fairness I can't really blame him. He's coming to his peak and he must surely want to win something before he retires. A slightly better chance at OT than Goodison I'm sad to say.
I joined in the fun. Eugene went off his head. I called him a "miserable twat".
Nothing wrong with optimism. I do it every summer.
But this year I feel a bit different. I just can't see us buying anyone without selling first. So the squad just treads water, in a sense. I think Ive had enough of being let down so I'm expecting the same shit start and hopefully I will be pleasantly suprised. Although this could all change after a few weeks and I will be dreaming of a top 4 finish and a cup win.
I'm hoping Jelavic will be the difference but then he's going to the Euros so he might be knackered next season. He is 28/1 to be top scorer at the Euros....I'm having some of that.
By the way, my best mate just rang me. According to Talksport Manure have bid £12m for Baines.
I said that is nowhere near enough. He thought £15m was right for a "27yr old full back". I think £20 is far more accurate.
I hope he doesn't go but in fairness I can't really blame him. He's coming to his peak and he must surely want to win something before he retires. A slightly better chance at OT than Goodison I'm sad to say.
I'm also positive and I don't believe that we'll have a slow start. Our slow starts have partly been a result of not getting goals in the early games and Jelavic could end that. He's been a breath of fresh air for the club as has the excellent Gibson. Not signing Pienaar would be a blow but we have to start blooding in our youngsters as truly good sides need to be constantly regenerated. I still have a horrible feeling that our squad is possibly as strong as we can ever get on our resources and may weaken if we have to sell to survive. On the Pienaar ffron I believe we should prepare for the worst or at best a continued loan. Spurs won't sell him back cheaply.
I'm pretty concerned about Baines now especially as "Man Utd have opened talks". Well, this time 2 years ago, I recall Baines saying he was constantly texting Pienaar to stay at Everton and sign a new deal. I just hope it will be the other way round now.
Of our sellable assets (Fellaini & Jagielka are the other main two), he is our most important player. He is our left back and left winger a set-piece specialist and hardly ever gets injured.
These figures of £5m then £10m then £12m and now £15m are ridiculous. They would have to pay £30m for him to even think about it. Baines is priceless. If he is sold, I will feel like we have lost half of the team ? he is that important.
Of our sellable assets (Fellaini & Jagielka are the other main two), he is our most important player. He is our left back and left winger a set-piece specialist and hardly ever gets injured.
These figures of £5m then £10m then £12m and now £15m are ridiculous. They would have to pay £30m for him to even think about it. Baines is priceless. If he is sold, I will feel like we have lost half of the team ? he is that important.
Know what you mean Jason (164), but my own wish for 2012/13 is simple.
Not that we win this or that amount of games/points or finish in this or that position - simply that when next season starts, we continue with the style of football that (it seems to me) really began second half against Swansea.
In the main, on the deck.
Plenty of movement and invention (even intelligence!).
Both wings ('flanks' for anyone under 40) used and the idea that best form of defence is attack.
Football with belief.
Last season, we played TWO completely different types of football.
One type was dumb and defensive and proved, in the main, unsuccessful - the other was entertaining and MUCH more profitable.
To see us start in August, playing the same way we started last August, would be more than I could stand.
Seriously - it really would make a difference to my mental well-being.
After the draw at Wolves I was pissed-off coz we didn't get the three points, BUT....only pissed-off for about half an hour.
When I thought about it later I thought, ok we weren't brilliant and the effort wasn't quite there, but for a nothing game, we tried some good stuff and a 2-0 win wouldn't have flattered us.
Earlier in the season when we were drawing with the likes of Wolves, it was depressing me for the entire fucking week.
I'd be thinking 'Jesus, that was soul-destroying, no-brain, horrible anti-football shite and I just can't see it ever ending'.
Imo, whoever comes and/or goes, there will be NO valid reason/justification to revert to non-football or (see City away) 'white flag football'.
Remember, when we decided to 'go for it', we beat the PL Champions and European Cup winners without too much bother.
A completely different attitude saw them beat us at a canter.
If we can't win the league (nb: and we can't..ever again), the idea 'a bit of entertainment' should be top of the priority list imo - especially when it has proved to be safer (ie: more wins/points) than the 'saftey-first' brand.
Not that we win this or that amount of games/points or finish in this or that position - simply that when next season starts, we continue with the style of football that (it seems to me) really began second half against Swansea.
In the main, on the deck.
Plenty of movement and invention (even intelligence!).
Both wings ('flanks' for anyone under 40) used and the idea that best form of defence is attack.
Football with belief.
Last season, we played TWO completely different types of football.
One type was dumb and defensive and proved, in the main, unsuccessful - the other was entertaining and MUCH more profitable.
To see us start in August, playing the same way we started last August, would be more than I could stand.
Seriously - it really would make a difference to my mental well-being.
After the draw at Wolves I was pissed-off coz we didn't get the three points, BUT....only pissed-off for about half an hour.
When I thought about it later I thought, ok we weren't brilliant and the effort wasn't quite there, but for a nothing game, we tried some good stuff and a 2-0 win wouldn't have flattered us.
Earlier in the season when we were drawing with the likes of Wolves, it was depressing me for the entire fucking week.
I'd be thinking 'Jesus, that was soul-destroying, no-brain, horrible anti-football shite and I just can't see it ever ending'.
Imo, whoever comes and/or goes, there will be NO valid reason/justification to revert to non-football or (see City away) 'white flag football'.
Remember, when we decided to 'go for it', we beat the PL Champions and European Cup winners without too much bother.
A completely different attitude saw them beat us at a canter.
If we can't win the league (nb: and we can't..ever again), the idea 'a bit of entertainment' should be top of the priority list imo - especially when it has proved to be safer (ie: more wins/points) than the 'saftey-first' brand.
I would love to be optimistic but only if there was something to be optimistic about. Jelavic is quality, there's no doubt about that... but he is one player, and one player who could get injured.
Pienaar isn't even our player and we will loose Baines or Fellaini before the start of next season (maybe even both). There is more than just three missing links in this team to challenge the top four if you've still got Cahill, Neville, Osman, Hibbert and Anichebe in the squad.
I too would like us to get off to a good start but I've seen enough of Moyes to know that if that happens then we'll have a piss poor middle or end with a few convenient excusses floating around.
Pienaar isn't even our player and we will loose Baines or Fellaini before the start of next season (maybe even both). There is more than just three missing links in this team to challenge the top four if you've still got Cahill, Neville, Osman, Hibbert and Anichebe in the squad.
I too would like us to get off to a good start but I've seen enough of Moyes to know that if that happens then we'll have a piss poor middle or end with a few convenient excusses floating around.
Don't be fuckin' daft - even if we managed to scrape 4th somehow we'd NEVER with the CL anyway.
The Cups are our best chance of silverware I reckon.
How many times over the years have Everton let ya down....
If Jella proves to be as good as he looks he'll leave; UTD will come along with £30m and we'd HAVE to sell him just to keep the club afloat.
That's the way of the world; we're a selling club and the sooner we all accept it, the better.
Having said all that, if we can persuade someone to buy Fellaini then we MIGHT be able to keep hold of Jella.
Things do look better, but look at how much the top 6 teams spend compared to us; it's a fuckin' miracle we finished 7th in my opinion.
Problem is that everyone will strengthen again in the summer and we'll be left with shitty loan signings again.
Lets just hope for a decent start to the season, some good home performances, a cup run and the fucking shambles over the park to continue - that'll do me.....
The Cups are our best chance of silverware I reckon.
How many times over the years have Everton let ya down....
If Jella proves to be as good as he looks he'll leave; UTD will come along with £30m and we'd HAVE to sell him just to keep the club afloat.
That's the way of the world; we're a selling club and the sooner we all accept it, the better.
Having said all that, if we can persuade someone to buy Fellaini then we MIGHT be able to keep hold of Jella.
Things do look better, but look at how much the top 6 teams spend compared to us; it's a fuckin' miracle we finished 7th in my opinion.
Problem is that everyone will strengthen again in the summer and we'll be left with shitty loan signings again.
Lets just hope for a decent start to the season, some good home performances, a cup run and the fucking shambles over the park to continue - that'll do me.....
I'm going to play the devil's pessimistic card and say that Baines goes to United for £ 15m. We give £ 10m to the bank and we use the other £ 5m to get Pienaar and a couple of loans who are only good enough as back-up, similar to Straq for example. We get Southampton at home on the opening day and after they take a shock lead Jelavic tears his cruciate and is out for 6-8 months. Cahill moves up front in his place as Velios isn't ready for this role. Heitinga is distraught at this start and jumps on his bike and heads for Catalonia shouting catch me if you can. Felli's Dad doesn't like the look of this so he buys Johnny a tandem and away the two lads go. Moyes manages to sign two young goalkeepers on deadline day with the £ 30m received. Bill works for 3,672 hours and manages to get Donovan and Jermain Defoe on 31 January and we race from the relegation zone to finish a point above Liverpool. Moyes reckons that the reds are a better team and he only cares about winning the league anyway and so he allows them to take the blues' place in Europe. Toffeewebbers reckon that with only a few additions the 2014 Premier League title is ours for the taking.......................
"I hope Moyes pulls his finger out this summer and grabs the final pieces of his jigsaw quickly" - He can only do this if he is given funds. I don't think it is a case of Dithering Davey, it's a case of tightarse Bill/Green etc
Eugene, I would steer well clear of your bank if you thought you could have access to all my financials....AFTER you had given me the loan.
Eugene, I would steer well clear of your bank if you thought you could have access to all my financials....AFTER you had given me the loan.
I have critisised Moyes on here for his style of football, safety frst approach etc.
There is one part of his job that I would never dream of offering any critisism towards the man - can you imagine having to deal with slippery Bill ?
He has been forced to buy on the last minute, if we sell someone. No funds upfront so we cannot possibly conclude our business early on. He has to hold Kenwright upside down and shake the twat for his spare change.
One question - how the fuck do players go from top four form at the end of each season, to relegation fodder at the beginning of the next season ?
Does 6 weeks off really have that much of an effect on form, fitness etc.
Or do we start each new season with the old KITAHTNO ?
There is one part of his job that I would never dream of offering any critisism towards the man - can you imagine having to deal with slippery Bill ?
He has been forced to buy on the last minute, if we sell someone. No funds upfront so we cannot possibly conclude our business early on. He has to hold Kenwright upside down and shake the twat for his spare change.
One question - how the fuck do players go from top four form at the end of each season, to relegation fodder at the beginning of the next season ?
Does 6 weeks off really have that much of an effect on form, fitness etc.
Or do we start each new season with the old KITAHTNO ?
Shane, weirdly your pessimistic scenario does sound woefully plausible.
In particular the thing that worries me is Jelavic. More than anyone he is the player around which this hope is based as he provides the thing that we have been missing since pre cruciate Yakubu and that essentially wins football matches. Goals.
Trouble is, being a cash poor team we have no depth and should Jelavic lose form or even worse pick up a leg break at the Euros then who comes in? Cahill? Big Vic? Urrghh.
Until we have a slightly fuller squad and don't have to rely so heavily on just one or two players then i think that while hopeful i remain very, very cautiously so...
In particular the thing that worries me is Jelavic. More than anyone he is the player around which this hope is based as he provides the thing that we have been missing since pre cruciate Yakubu and that essentially wins football matches. Goals.
Trouble is, being a cash poor team we have no depth and should Jelavic lose form or even worse pick up a leg break at the Euros then who comes in? Cahill? Big Vic? Urrghh.
Until we have a slightly fuller squad and don't have to rely so heavily on just one or two players then i think that while hopeful i remain very, very cautiously so...
Tony (188) - as I say, don't know how reall banks ACTUALLY work, but at The Bank Of Eugene, if you owed me millions, there would be no 'MY' financial details, only 'OUR' financial details.
And as I suggest, the only way you'd have got the loans (from me) in the first place, would be if my harsh but sensible measures were in place.
Barclay's slipped up there...imo.
And as I suggest, the only way you'd have got the loans (from me) in the first place, would be if my harsh but sensible measures were in place.
Barclay's slipped up there...imo.
Well it's very stupid to think we won't have to sell anyone. Something we have done consistently since Rooney left.
We need Pienaar, plus a Right winger plus a support/backup striker. And thats just without losing anyone.
We need Pienaar, plus a Right winger plus a support/backup striker. And thats just without losing anyone.
Eugene, it sounds like you're better suited to the role of administrator than banker. Let's hope your skills aren't needed for a good while yet.
Sam, despite the tongue-in-cheekish nature of my post it was the reliance on Jelavic that prompted it. We used to cringe at the thought of relying on Saha, then we had the Yak & Beckford behind him. Now we have, as you say, Anichibe and Cahill and Vellios as a cameo. But on the plus side, Emile Heseky has just been put on the market. Good at defending corners too.
Heskey and Owen both available on frees... SHOOT ME NOW!!!!
I think even the idealistic scenario above, suggests a disconcerting reality:
Bench: Neville, Distin, Barkley, Cahill, Vellios, Gueye
Add Hibbert to the above, and we have a worse sub's bench than everyone who finished above us, and some of those who finished below us, even with three good signings. Of course we will add a loan or two, but our squad is extremely poor, and we could have a much worse season for injuries next year...
My dream scenario is: to sell Jags to Spurs for 7mil plus Pienarr. Give 5mil (ish) to the bank, fund the frees of Hoilett and Rodallega, and bring in a couple of loans. I would be incredibly happy with the above, but understand it is unrealistic...I also think Kelly would be a cheap and useful addition to our defense, as a covering cb and rb.
Bench: Neville, Distin, Barkley, Cahill, Vellios, Gueye
Add Hibbert to the above, and we have a worse sub's bench than everyone who finished above us, and some of those who finished below us, even with three good signings. Of course we will add a loan or two, but our squad is extremely poor, and we could have a much worse season for injuries next year...
My dream scenario is: to sell Jags to Spurs for 7mil plus Pienarr. Give 5mil (ish) to the bank, fund the frees of Hoilett and Rodallega, and bring in a couple of loans. I would be incredibly happy with the above, but understand it is unrealistic...I also think Kelly would be a cheap and useful addition to our defense, as a covering cb and rb.
Jelavic was the main key to Everton's turnaround followed by Pienaar and Gibson.
The others grew in confidence after they came in even Osman had a few consistant games. However if Jelavic gets injured or loses form for a while what then? Who can pick up the slack? Certainly not Anichebe or Cahill anymore. Velios seems to have taken a step back according to Moyes judging by his non-selection in many games. So the question we all have is, who will be added to be the ''other'' striker and I do mean striker because without that problem being addressed Everton will have problems. We still don't get enough goals from midfield to compensate when the forward/forwards struggle.
Perhaps Rodwell will get fully fit during the summer and offer something more as an offensive weapon?
The others grew in confidence after they came in even Osman had a few consistant games. However if Jelavic gets injured or loses form for a while what then? Who can pick up the slack? Certainly not Anichebe or Cahill anymore. Velios seems to have taken a step back according to Moyes judging by his non-selection in many games. So the question we all have is, who will be added to be the ''other'' striker and I do mean striker because without that problem being addressed Everton will have problems. We still don't get enough goals from midfield to compensate when the forward/forwards struggle.
Perhaps Rodwell will get fully fit during the summer and offer something more as an offensive weapon?
Everton...... hope.....optimism.
Name that tune!
"I'll name it in one!!!
D------n
Name that tune!
"I'll name it in one!!!
D------n
The only hope that we have got is Hallam Hope........
Hope and Lundstrom should be given their chance. Stirling has already played for our neighbours having been in the same England team. Along with regular games for Barkley we could finally sell Rodwell. Duffy being back-up at CH means we could sell Jags. Wheeling and dealing is part of the job which DM has yet to grasp. Learn from ´arry if you must Mr M.
Some people just never learn.
I wondered how long it would be before this type of article appeared.
We are three decent players away from treading water and challenging for sixth.
Naismith £2mill mates with Jelly and Rangers will sell. Very much a Moyes type player.
Pienaar £4mill worth it for the league placings and helping to keep Baines.
Donovan £3mill, done it all in USA seen Dempsey eclipsing him and the time is now right for him.
Cost £9mill. Banks will want £10mill to service the debt, so we need to find £19mill, thats Jack and Jags gone then.
Pienaar £4mill worth it for the league placings and helping to keep Baines.
Donovan £3mill, done it all in USA seen Dempsey eclipsing him and the time is now right for him.
Cost £9mill. Banks will want £10mill to service the debt, so we need to find £19mill, thats Jack and Jags gone then.
If we return an operating loss of £5m most years we only have to get Cahill and Neville off the books to break even, assuming they are on £100k a week between them.
Further, given the wages we have already offloaded; McFadden, Straq, Drenthe etc, and the quality of free transfer available this season; Hoilett, Kalou, etc we could plausibly have a couple of new players for no, or little, initial outlay.. Albeit they would be part of a threadbare squad with lots of youngsters for backup!
Blood in Hallam Hope... put him on the bench and give 10 minutes every game. Vellios too needs more first team matches along with Duffy. If we can develop these players this season, the next would be a blinder!
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133 Posted 23/05/2012 at 08:23:35
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Pienaar isn't our player. That would mean we would need three signings and I think the players you mention might be a bit beyond our reach.
That said I agree with the jist of your article. There is an excellent spine to our side and good partnerships run right through it. Gibson and Fellaini, Heitinga and Distin, Baines and Pienaar.
There are some brilliant players available for free this summer and I hope we can take advantage of this and find a partner for Jelavic if he isn't already at the club, and solve the right hand side problem that's dogged us for years.
Like you, I'd love to see us od our business early but we all know that we're not in a position to do that so I just hope we hit the ground running whatever side we start with.
There's a lot to look forward to and if we start well it could be an epic season.