Without Gibson and Jelavic...

 Comments (31) jump to end

How did a bit-part Manchester United player become so important to us?

With Gibson and Jelavic out for a few weeks, much speculation has arisen as how best to set the team up. Of course this will depend on the opposition but with, arguably, the spine of the team missing and, in my opinion, a lack of like-for-like replacements, we'll need to look at an alternative way of playing.

A criticism of Moyes has been that he's not the most proactive (or even reactive), but this is a time to be so, and get a workable Plan B on the pitch.

I don't feel that continuing with the same shape, but replacing Gibson for Neville and Anichebe for Jelavic (admittedly from our able reserves they are the most similar in position) is a credible solution and will result in a stagnation that could be very detrimental to the recent positivity seen on the pitch and among the fanbase. Momentum must be maintained!

For one, I propose that Fellaini moves back into Midfield. He's been doing a great job as the upsetter and attacking playmaker so far this season but without Jelavic making the intellegent runs and pulling defenders away he cut a lone figure up front in the second half at Newcastle and would be further isolated if asked to play with Anichebe. With Osman alongside him, I think the midfield is fairly well balanced and I expect Leon to improve massively without having the burden of carrying an out-of-form Neville.

The defence picks itself I feel, bar an argument for Heitinga replacing Jags or Distin; Baines and Hibbert at full back. I've been impressed with Hibbert so far this season and there are encouraging signs of him developing better understandings with the winger. (Unfortunately Leon can't play that role and exposes Tony too often, I feel.)

Pienaar on the left, a given, but on the right I'm torn. I think Coleman could be a good stop-gap for now allowing my proposed forward partnership to work...

Naysmith and Mirallas. They're buzzy, quick, get in people's faces and, from what I've seen, have intelligent football brains (aside from Kevin's eagerness for glory – not that I'd want to stifle that).

I'd set my team out like this:

Howard
Hibbert Jagielka Heitinga Baines
Coleman Fellaini Osman Pienaar
Naismith
Mirallas

What do you lot think?

Ben Howard, London     Posted 21/09/2012 at 11:12:04

back Return to Talking Points index  :  Add your Comments back

Reader Comments

Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer


Phil Walling
077 Posted 21/09/2012 at 14:43:07
I`ll go along with that line-up,Ben, but expect we shall see Neville in midfield and Victor up front.

Moyes's reasoning will be that against Newcastle we enjoyed our best first half during his reign and that Anichebe found the net twice in the second. Thus Mirallas will continue on the right but doing a switch act with Victor. Should be good enough to see for Swansea.
Ben Howard
078 Posted 21/09/2012 at 14:57:53
I fear you're right Phil. Victor, for all his faults, does have some attributes that set him apart from any other member of our squad. I just could ever imagine him starting a game with his level of fitness what it is. I'd happily see him come on to replace one of Mirallas or Naismith at 70 mins.
Nick Entwistle
080 Posted 21/09/2012 at 15:07:04
With the pass pass pass of Swansea it might be the right match for Neville to go and Fallaini drop back. The great thing about Fellaini, Ossie, Pienaar, Naismith and Mirallas is they can interchange positions so once when a plan B was a luxury, this presents an ever present A through... erm, D? You get me point.

Moyes will have an eye on a robust match at Leeds and Neville may be preserved for that match. I think we'll destroy Swansea, especially with so many players, including that £2m Spanish dude missing... Chico or something.

Anyways, Jelavic was on poor form. 1 goal in 4. Terrible!

Jamie Barlow
081 Posted 21/09/2012 at 15:17:27
Hibberts a doubt so we'll probably see Neville back at full back.

Just hope he doesn't stick Johnny in midfield.


Nick Entwistle
083 Posted 21/09/2012 at 15:25:59
Hmmm, never thought I'd see it, but if Hibbo is out maybe its a perfect time to play Coleman RB, Mirallas RW. When else could it be given a go? Even for Moyes its possible...
Paul David
088 Posted 21/09/2012 at 16:15:59
My team

Howard
Coleman Jag Heitinga Baines
Pienaar Osman Fellaini Oviedo
Naismith Mirallas

But Moyes will probably go with something like this

Howard
Neville Jag Distin Baines
Heitinga
Mirallas Osman Pienaar
Fellaini
Anichebe

Ben Howard
089 Posted 21/09/2012 at 16:33:33
If Oveido is fit, that would be an interesting team Paul.
I might be reluctant to split Pienaar and Baines up though. Wasn't aware that Tony was a doubt when I wrote this so that puts a cat amongst the pigeons (don't tell Duncan!). A good time for Coleman to show what he can do for sure...
Paul Gladwell
091 Posted 21/09/2012 at 16:41:42
That would be my line up Ben but with Jags being dropped, I would not be too surprised if we saw Pienaar moving inside for Oviedo in the future if not tomorrow.
Paul David
092 Posted 21/09/2012 at 16:43:15
I was thinking the same, not sure if the new lad could play on the right or not but with Coleman not playing much at right back it would be a good thing to have Pienaar's help.

As I said though Moyes will pick a totally different side. I can't see him dropping Jag or Distin even though one of them deserves to be but Hibbert being injured has played beautifully into Moyes's hands.

It now means he'll put Neville at right back and bring Heitinga into midfield (where he is shite). This way he doesn't have to upset any of his favourites.

Ben Howard
093 Posted 21/09/2012 at 16:52:36
Feels like a compromise. Do we make both wings 'safe'? Or rely on the strength on the left with Bainaar and sacrifice the right wing potentially?
Paul David
096 Posted 21/09/2012 at 16:56:00
Well my thinking wasn't about making the wings safe, it was about balance. Having not seen anything of the new lad i'm unsure if he could play on the right. Baines and Pienaar might be perfect for each other but they don't need each other. Baines was still the best left back in the league when Pienaar was at Spurs. Both will usually play well no matter who their playing with.
Jamie Barlow
102 Posted 21/09/2012 at 17:13:23
I don't agree Paul. Baines was nowhere near as good as he was when Pienaar was here. I agree they don't need to play together but they're the best thing about our team and shouldn't be split up.
Paul David
105 Posted 21/09/2012 at 17:21:05
Jamie

If we had a full squad i'd agree but we've players injured, i'm not talking about breaking them up for good.

I do still think Baines was immense without Pienaar. I might have my times mixed up but didn't he top the assist charts while Pienaar was at Spurs?

Tony J Williams
106 Posted 21/09/2012 at 17:22:30
It amazes me when a new face comes into the team that there seems to be this aversion to throw them in straight away.

The lad has been here a couple of days but you want to break up the successful Baines/Pienaar partnership for an untried youngster. madness I tells thee

Danny Broderick
111 Posted 21/09/2012 at 17:34:57
I almost can't believe what I am about to say,as I have never been a big fan of him in the past,but I hope Anichebe plays tomorrow. He scored 2 goals the other night, had several good cameos last season off the bench,and deserves his chance. I also think Mirallas is still finding his feet,and he is better on the right than up front, from what I have seen of him - certainly if he is going to be up front on his own.
Give Vic a chance,he has shown signs of improvement in the last 12 months. If he doesn't take it,he'll be back on the bench when Jelavic is back.
Jimmy Sørheim
112 Posted 21/09/2012 at 16:24:46
Without Gibson and Jelavic... We will finally see what Moyes is good for or not. Will he be able to put Fellaini back into midfield where he belongs, plus will he give Vellios some playing time now that Jelavic is injured?

I think both Mirallas and Naismith are too weak in the air to play as strikers. Vellios is very decent in the air so he should be in direct contest with Anichebe for who will start up top against Swansea.

I think they should both start against Swansea, but Moyes will never leave his favourite 4-4-1-1 formation. There will have to be changes made, and I fear Moyes will screw it up somehow.

The defence is leaking so Jags should be put on the bench, Heitinga is our best playing defender so that is the first change that has to happen.

Mirallas and Naismith are not 100% match fit yet so Vellios and Anichebe will have to step up to the plate. Anichebe will probably get the nod in front of Vellios, but Vellios at least has to be on the bench in case Anichebe does not work out.

Howard
Hibbert-Heitinga-Distin-Baines
Naismith-Fellaini-Osman-Pienaar
Mirallas
Anichebe

I think this will be the the team picked, but with Moyes love for Jags then we will probably see the same defence that has only got us 1 point in the last two games. After two games with just 1 point we are heading for a downward spiral, our defence is weak, as is our midfield, so Moyes has a job to do to reverse the trend.

Time to show some balls now, Moyes.

Ben Howard
113 Posted 21/09/2012 at 17:56:50
I think you mean compulsion rather than aversion Tony ;)
But I totally agree with you.
Paul David
114 Posted 21/09/2012 at 17:55:49
Tony

Out of interest what would your team be?

We have a small squad and we have a few injuries. We either have to try something new or carry on picking players who have been shite.

Wayne Smyth
116 Posted 21/09/2012 at 17:54:52
Ben, to answer your first question, I think its quite clear: for most of Moyes tenure our central midfield has always been poor.

Gibson may have been a bit-part Man Utd player, but he is a solid central midfielder who can do everything a central midfielder needs to do.

Osman may have a good footballing brain and decent technique, but he's not going to win many battles against more substantial players. Cahill - although rarely deployed in central midfield - always seemed to lack a bit of quality when operating so deep, and he was not so mobile. Neville and Heitinga can "do a job", but they are both poor midfielders.

For years we operated with a central 3 probably out of necessity, because any two of our midfielders were generally too poor to stand up to most other teams' pairings. For the first time with Gibson, we have a player who may not be a world beater, but along with fellaini are a match for most.

As for the team tomorrow, I probably wouldn't start with victor. I'd play naismith behind mirallas with coleman on the right wing. Victors biggest problem over the years has been his attitude. On Monday for the first time in a long time we saw a hungry player willing to work and put himself about. Unless the penny has finally dropped with him, I suspect he may revert to type if given a start. Only Moyes knows if he looks hungry enough to be given the opportunity.

Elsewhere in the team, I'd love to see Junior given a start in place of Gibson. He looked quality in pre-season and a central 3 of osman, fellaini and junior would be much stronger than anything involving Neville or Heitinga(who should play instead of jags).

James Martin
135 Posted 21/09/2012 at 19:36:50
None of the players have been that bad Paul. They are all the same players that beat Man U and Aston Villa, we would have 9 points out of 12 if it wasn't for an incompetent referee. Nearly all of them (big stars included) have made mistakes that have contributed to dropping points. Nearly all of them (Neville and Hibbert included) have made vital contributions to a decent start. It's been 4 games, we've only played badly once, it's not like we're bottom of the league. Liverpool fans still think they've got the league's best midfield despite only having 2 points and we're ripping our players to shreds for not being absolutely perfect. I'd expect Oviedo to feature against Leeds, or off the bench. Naismith or Mirallas will rightly start ahead of him in the next match on the right flank whilst Pienaar will play left.
Paul Johnson
138 Posted 21/09/2012 at 19:49:16
Howard Neville, Heitinga, Distan, Baines Mirallas, Felliani, Pienaar Osman, Naismith Anicebe COYB
Paul David
139 Posted 21/09/2012 at 19:52:40
James

I think Neville has been shit and Distin hasn't been too good. Thats all it takes, to drop 2 players till we're left with either the new lad or kids taking their place.

Steve Birch
147 Posted 21/09/2012 at 20:18:00
I think it's asking a lot for Mirallas to lead the line on his second Premier League start. Plus, he's more of a second striker than a number nine for me.

I'm surprised anyone thinks for a second Coleman could cope at RB. The lad isn't good enough defensively at all.

It would be good to give Oviedo some game time but we can't afford to break up Baines and Pienaar while we are weakened in other departments.

We can't play with Ossie (lightweight) and Neville (too slow) together in central midfield again tomorrow. They were cruelly exposed in the second half against the Barcodes. Felli has to get back in the engine room to sort things out.

I'd go with:

Howard
Neville (unless Hibbert is fit), Jags, Distin, Baines
Naismith, Fellaini, Osman, Pienaar
Mirallas
Big Vic.

Dick Fearon
162 Posted 21/09/2012 at 22:32:24
Moyes should drag Osman at the 60 minute mark or bring him on at that point.

It does not take an expert to see the little fellow cannot sustain the tempo for 90 minutes.

Mike Allison
172 Posted 21/09/2012 at 23:54:33
Ben, actually I think your XI is bang on. I know it may seem daft to change Fellaini's role given how effective he's been, but we simply need our best player dominating in midfield right now.

I'd be happy with any combination of two from our three centre backs, and Heitinga would be my top choice. I think I'd probably edge Distin over Jagielka though.

Otherwise, although I think he's very limited, Coleman's inclusion would offer natural width allowing Naismith and Mirallas to express themselves through the middle in what would actually be a very fluid and difficult to mark forward line with Pienaar drifting inside and those two and Osman floating all over the place.

I think we all know that Vic is going to start and Neville and Osman will play in midfield though, so it was fun thinking about it for a few seconds, but never mind.

Jamie Crowley
175 Posted 22/09/2012 at 00:21:30
Howard
Hibbo JH Distin Baines
Fella
Naismith Osman Barkley -aww shit! loaned out - Pienaar
Mirallas

Stick Coleman on the right since Barkley is on temporary leave...

Ajay Gopal
181 Posted 22/09/2012 at 04:41:05
Howard
Coleman Jagielka Heitinga Baines
Mirallas Osman Fellaini Pienaar
Naismith
Anichebe

Subs: Junior, Neville, Oviedo, Gueye, Distin, Vellios, Mucha

Knowing Moyes, he will likely play Neville instead of Coleman. In any case, the bench looks really poor. Unless Oviedo is our 'secret weapon' and Gueye has come out from his Olympics experience all fired up.

Peter Barry
182 Posted 22/09/2012 at 06:37:56
Hey Jimmy Sørheim I believe Royston is still looking for a team why don't you get on line to Davey and let him know.
Alan Clarke
288 Posted 22/09/2012 at 18:07:05
I just read an unbelievable stat that eclipses Gibson's. In the last 26 games Anichebe has been involved in, we've won 21 and drawn 5!

I think we all know who the most important player is for us now. If Moyes drops big Vic for Jelavic now, we should all be in uproar!

Alan Clarke
298 Posted 22/09/2012 at 18:35:24
Sorry read the stat wrong. In the last 26 games Vic has scored, we've won 21 and drawn 5. Still impressive though!
Drew O'Neall
471 Posted 23/09/2012 at 10:43:17
Leave it to the gaffer lads, he seems to know what he's doing!

Add Your Comments

In order to post a comment, you need to be logged in as a registered user of the site.

» Log in now

Or Sign up as a ToffeeWeb Member — it's free, takes just a few minutes and will allow you to post your comments on articles and Talking Points submissions across the site.



© ToffeeWeb