If you go back 2-3 years ago we all thought that a few of the likes of Rodwell, Baxter, Anichebe, Wallace, Duffy, (the German centre half - name escapes me),Bidwell, Garbutt and more recently Hope , Barkley and Lundstram were possibly going to breakthrough but in reality only Rodwell and Anichebe have "made it", but clearly not fully made it. Rodwell is the enigma - his development just stopped 18 months ago - even though he got his Engalnd cap he has definitely gone backwards. Our pipeline seemed full and there was even major paper articles about Evertom giving youth a chance - but it just hasn't . Either Moyes is too cautious or simply they aren't good enough , and to be honest I tend to believe that they aren't good enough as none have made it elsewhere.

Can Alan Irvine deliver the goods over the next few years, will Moyes give them the opportunity - I don't know the answer, but the impression the media and to a greater extent the football community had was that Everton is the place to get spotted, developed is falling way short at the moment.

Here's a thought... say it quietly. Maybe Sterling is better than Barkley! And, just so we're clear, is an entirely different human being! Perhaps he's better at mans football right now than Barkley. Then again, Sterling just pansies around on the wing. A wide man can have an off day, be given freedom to roam. In the middle and its a whole other bunch of bananas.

I like The Who also.

Brendan Rodgers is a great manager, Liverpool's performances for me so far this season are up there with the Barcelona side of a few years back. If he were to get sacked on the minor point of having 2 points from 15 against crap opposition, then I think the only option would be to overthrow the board and have a few seasons more turmoil. Long may his reign continue and even longer may he continue to play young lads even if it means them getting beat. Rodgers is amazing. What kind of mad manager wouldn't play a player just because he's 19 and had a serious compound fracture of his leg just 2 years ago? I mean come on this is the 21st century, ever since Rooney made his debut kids have been getting younger, over in South America they have 8 year olds in the top leagues now. Anyone would think this guy that isn't playing Barkley has some kind of ability as a manager, anyone would think he might have Barkley's best interests at heart, crazy I tell you, clearly doesn't read the forums.

but in all seriousness I think making your debut as a central midfielder is naturally going to be a bit later due to the responsibility of the position, as opposed to a Milner / Rooney / Winger / Striker where they can afford to switch off from time to time in return for a few moments of brilliance. You could say Rodwell is an example against that but look how that turned out, any creativity didn't really flourish. Gerrard made his debut at 18 and a half and he didn't have the career threatening injury at the age of 16. Also it should be noted, we don't NEED a central midfielder with no experience in central midfield so why rush, I'm pretty certain Beckham was 20 when Moyes had him on loan at Preston, Ross has time on his side and is ready to gain experience, plus the Championship's no easy league, he'll be learning all the time)

The development (or lack of it) of young players coming through at Everton is alarming. The new Under-21 league has been an eye opener – at least to date – I accept totally it is only the beginning of the season. I was really looking forward to seeing our youngsters doing exceptionally well but to lose the first three games was a shock to the system, albeit we have drawn and finally won our fifth game since those losses.

I can't believe somebody like DM would ignore young talent and not give it a chance, we have seen he can take an educated gamble on lower league players. So one has to summise the talent simply isn't coming through. I was worried in the summer in case Baines or Fellaini went but was quietly delighted we raised funds from the sale of Rodwell, which has only been enhanced watching his insipid displays for Man City so far this season.

To sum up, one has to ask if there is something amiss with our grass roots scouting system or there is something amiss at coaching level. Either way it is worrying!

Also in my opinion there's no way a player making his way into the first team at 24 should ever be regarded as belatedly if you're challenging for top positions

Remember when the England Under-21 team had maybe 2 players you'd heard of, a couple of division 2 hotshot's and a load of players that hadn't made their debut for their club yet? It wasn't that long ago!

The only thing that is pushing everyone to play players younger is because Man U do... and Man U do because they have the best young players... and if they don't play them (as they didn't play Pique before he went off to Barcelona) then they won't sign a new contract and they will lose them for next to nothing. If theyve signed a new contract and theyre not as experienced as the people already in their position then why not loan them out? As the man said it's probably bigger boys football in the championship than it is in the premiership, if you can change games there then you really are ready for anything

Brendan Rodgers has nothing to lose by playing kids. He was brought into the club with a period of tranisition in mind and then given no money in the transfre window.

For Alex Ferguson, the league cup has meant nothing for several years. His teams have been in the mix for the league title and the CL for years now. The league cup is probably a pain in the arse for him and he just uses it to rest his senior players.

For the managers of Everton, Newcastle and Spurs it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario. Do you go all out for a CL place or do you try to win the domesitc cups? You can't do both unless you have spent the cash on squads that City, Chelsea and Utd have in recent years. The further into the season you go, the more the fixtures.

For me it was the right choice to field a weakened type team on Tuesday night. I want to see a push for a CL place this year and the cups come second to that. For now, I'm not too worried by the performance. It's what follow up there is, including more game time that I would be concerned about. Will we see Junior or Gueye start a game again between now and the end of the season? Will we see them get more than just two minutes at the end of a game when Moyes wants to just wind down the clock?

I agree with the points made by Kieran above, my only issue however is I've always been a believer in cup wins breed confidence for league games. This will be borne out by the performance against Southampton on Saturday.

The Leeds defeat was disappointing in itself, but I fear a hangover on Saturday. Not being pessimistic, just watching the type of football on Tuesday night if translated into Saturday, two upsets in one week could be on the cards!

I also think it is time for Coleman at RB! If only we had a Sterling coming through!!

To go onto the kids, Brendan Rodgers may have been given time but his selection against WBA was remarkable - the result annoyingly good!!

I agree with the points made by Kieran above, my only issue however is I've always been a believer in cup wins breed confidence for league games. This will be borne out by the performance against Southampton on Saturday.

The Leeds defeat was disappointing in itself, but I fear a hangover on Saturday. Not being pessimistic, just watching the type of football on Tuesday night if translated into Saturday, two upsets in one week could be on the cards!

I also think it is time for Coleman at RB! If only we had a Sterling coming through!!

To go onto the kids, Brendan Rodgers may have been given time but his selection against WBA was remarkable - the result annoyingly good!!

Kieran, Brendan Rodgers spent £30mil plus.

Stef. Was your grandad called Sam, by any chance, or have I got the spelling wrong?

Sterling who has done naff all so far cost 2M from QPR
Shelvey who is worse cost a similar fee from Charlton

Some academy that is if you want to compare them like for like then how about

Vellios who has scored 3 times in the Premier League and cost 150K
Coleman who has scored countless times and cost 60K

The main point in Everton's failure to develop youngsters seems to stem from one important issue. In order to develop you have to have top talented youngsters who can make the grade. We have just bought George Green, and he is one of those top talents, but we need more then one, our own youth system is failing.

Man Utd when they buy players they buy them very young, we have never done that until Green. We have scouting, but it is used for senior players. United are scouting all over the world, they have a very good youth side because they have picked up many of the best youngsters around europe.

Money is the main reason perhaps why Moyes has not started buying young top talent like Green before recently.

Once a club has found the best young talents to fill a youth side then the real work begins, Moyes surely will have to fire Stubbs as he is not good enough to develop youngsters into top players

I have no doubt Moyes has to bring in youth coaches of a top calibre if he is to turn the current bad tide we are in.

I have not seen a top talent here since Rooney, that was many years ago, had Moyes started back then to bring in top talents from europe we would have seen some results by now.

Problem is, Moyes has just recently opened his eyes to bringing in players from outside the club. So the example of George Green, we will only see the result after a couple of seasons or more. That is why our youth squad at the moment is as bad as it is.

I think the new U-21 system will force Moyes into action; he has already started by bringing in Green, but Moyes has to fill up the squad with more top talents like Green.

In a way, it is a never ending job if you want to be among the best!

I can't believe Evertonians are taking pleasure at seeing Rodwell having a difficult time at City.

As for Barkley. Moyes's evaluation of him is at odds with what I've seen of him in Premier League games... he must be pure shit in training.

The list is very long of young failed talent during Moyes's reign... our youth scouting system appears to be lacking.

Why are we talking about the Red Shite???

No Evertonian takes delight in any of its former players not making the mark at other clubs. The point being made in my own personal comment was that if we had to sell anybody Rodwell was the right player given the much needed money raised and his performances to date at Man City.

By talking of other clubs - even the Red half - allows us to compare our own club with others and is the basis by which we make our comments and express our opinions about EFC.

Youth team seems to be lacking and since rodwell, anichebe and Vaughan who all burst through about 3-5 years ago not many have more than a small handfull of starts.

Barkley is perhaps "unfortunate" that he plays in a pivotal position in central midfield, which Moyes is unwilling to risk. Moyes has had less inhibitions in playing Magueye on the wing, and Anichibe and Velios as the impact substitute striker

For those comparing Barkley to Red Shite Raheem Sterling — he isn't exactly a product of the Shite's youth system though is he? Signed from QPR for quite a fee for a player of his age, possibly rising to £5mil depending on appearances. He'll fade again once he's been properly scouted playing 1st games as teams suss him out.

As already mentioned, Barkley's role is a much more demanding one & I think it may prove to be a good loan for him.

The acadamy is a complete waste of money - Rooney excepted

I think Championship loans are much better use than playing in the 'new revamped U21 league'.

As such I would send Duffy, Gueye, Junior and McAleny to clubs that they will start for in the Championship rather than have them waiting around for two or three first teamers to get injured. Of course recall clauses must be included should we need them back.

If they perform well at that level then they boost their confidence, we get to see what they are capable of and if nothing else then we are more likely to get a decent fee if they don't make the grade at Goodison.

I don't see why people keep saying that Barkley going out on loan is such a negative step. He is getting games, and from what I have read and heard (living in Sheffield) he is becoming the focal point of the team.

Young players need games and we are hoping in the future that Barkley will become the focal point of our team. He won't get enough games for us at the moment and defo wouldn't be our focal point and so going to Wednesday seems entirely logical to me.

He'll either stay there, go on loan to a Prem club or come into our first team squad at Christmas depending on his progress. I think there is too much expectation on the lad at Premiership level and putting him in the Championship is a good move.

Our progress in the U21 League is worrying though. At least 3 or 4 of the players have had vocal backing from people on this site. They need to be able to prove themselves at that level if they are to make it in the Premier League.

Who cares about Liverpool's kids? Rafa bought them all and Rodgers is only playing them because he has no one else (as Moyes has done in the past). Just because they're getting a few games doesn't mean they have made it.

Barkley, McAleny, Vellios, Duffy have all had runs of games but then been straight back out once senior players recover. If anyone wants to swap 10 points for 2 just to see Barkley and Hallam Hope a bit more then go for it.

Mind you, after the midweek experimentation of just sticking names on a sheet, perhaps a bit more respect will now be shown to the senior players rather than this site's tendency to automatically assume that any youth player (regardless of whether they've ever been seen or not) must automatically be better than some of the first team with decades of Premier League experience.

Where or what has happened to Connor McAleny (aka `The Invisible Lad`)??? Anyone know?

Supposed to be the New Michael Owen, he always looked really good in the 5 mins he played. His contract expired in July... and no loan moves??

Something just ain't right down on that farm....

Sam @641, totally agree with you. What good is the Under-21 league going to do Garbutt, Junior and Vellios in terms of their development? Much better for both them and the club to go out on loan and get proper experience.

What good was the whole of last season to Garbutt if he is now back stuck in the reserves? He played a load of games, including a playoff final, and now he's playing meaningless underage fixtures.

The same goes for Duffy. He's gone beyond what the Under-21 league could do for him. Give both players proper games so that when their chance or time comes with our own senior team, they are more prepared.

Mathamatically most young hopefuls fail to make the grade in the top flight simply because there are only so many places there.However,Everton have done ok in bringing players through down the years.I know it is going back a bit but think of Harvey,Labone,Hurst,Husband,Wright,Richardson,Royle,Stevens,Hibbert,Unsworth,Osman,Ratcliffe etc.Also,players who have been sold on at a good profit - Rodwell,Jeffers,Dunne.Ball etc - oh yes,and a fella called Rooney(whatever happened to him ? )

Always felt shitloads of money is being wasted on kids who either aren`t good enough or ,if they are,will never be given the opportunity to show what they can do. Does anyone really consider that incomers like Gueye and Mucha are any better than some of the academy kids who`ve been shown the door.(Note I said any better and did not imply `the locals` were up to much, either!)
But Duffy can feel hard done to and Garbutt is as good as Oviedo but will never get a chance to show it.
As I say,it`s all a bloody waste!

To be fair, Sterling only had to get past Downing who is bang average, and being on the wing is free to drift in and out of the game. Barkley on the other hand is a centre mid and plays in a much tougher position.

James Martin has hit the nail on the head. Brenda spent £30mil in the summer and now needs kids Rafa poached to save his skin. Sterling and Suso look decent but who was blocking their path to the first team? Downing and Borini would get nowhere near the benches of last season's top 4 so Rodgers didn't have anything to lose by playing them.

As for our youth system, I agree with the general viewpoint that it seems to have stalled. It looked extremely promising only a few years back but the likes of Rodwell have't progressed and the rest aren't good enough to break our starting 11. I won't be giving up on Barkley just yet though, I think he's class and hopefully this loan move is good for him!