Our squad is threadbare although our first eleven are as good as Ive seen in ages.
Injuries to Mirallas and Fellaini's stupidity have left us really much weaker.
Our bench is padded with players that other clubs released and youngsters who are not good enough to push Neville and Distin out of the starting side.
Oviedo is an unknown quantity as he seems to be only used when absolutely necessary.
Magueye seems out of favour as he has flattered to deceive (another Bily).

Even Newcastle have options with two fine strikers and the Ameobi brothers on the bench.
We have no top cover for Howard or Jelavic !

In the summer transfer window the vultures were circling......so we let them have Rodwell and brought in Mirallas with the dough. Some excellent wheeling and dealing I think everyone has agreed.
If Moyes can pull off a similar stunt with Heitinga then I'd be happy enough. Of all our players with a sell on value, I think Heitinga is the one that we would miss the least.

If he has only 18 months left, get rid. Anything from £5m.

Unless Moyes loaned Lescott or had a sudden new found faith in Duffy I struggle to see how this tactic would work. There owuld not be much left from 7 million if we were to buy a centreback of the quality (or hopefully better) of Heitinga. He'd have to be a complete unknown yet have fantastic quality to both be affordable and improve the team. It was different with Bily as Moyes knew he had the chance of Pienaar coming on loan, had Donovan, and could therefore spend the money on Jelavic and Gibson. If he could find a Gibson equivalent for CB and pay only 500k from the 7 million then Moyes will truly be a genius. Most likely is a similar sort of deal to the Lescott one, a relatively untested CB with potential costing about 5 million.

Not really sure what Duffy did wrong not to warrant a run of games. Same with some younger players like Barkley. It seems that Moyes plays them, they do ok, maybe make a few mistakes and then they are dropped for an inordinate length of time.

I don't think Duffy did anything wrong did he?

Why play him when we have three better centre backs though?

James, based on his form this year I think Moyes could buy a centre back of Heitinga's quality for about a tenner.

I reckon Duffy can do the job of deputy and if not then as I mentioned in the post someone like Forren would not cost much (£2m was quoted) but could be a Moyes gem.

Ever since that stamp on Diouf I've wanted him gone...

People have spent much of this week giving off about Shawcross and Stokes Tactics..But he's as dirty as they come.

Agreed in general with this too...he is quite a dirty player and is not suited to our current brand of football (also showed in the Euros). If I remember rightly he is on quite large wages. I would advocate a sale now, and the possibility of a Lescott loan to shore things up till the summer. Whilst Kolo is leaving in January, which would appear to massively decrease our chances of getting Lescott back, I wouldn't put it past City to buy another central defender, whilst Richards is also returning, and capable of providing cover for the two first choices.

I have mixed feelings on a possible return of Lescott. I still rate him but I'm not happy with what he did. Still, the same sort of thing happened with Pienaar and I have made my peace with that. So... let's do it!

Be careful what you wish for. If he were to sell Heitinga, we could end up with another Krøldrup.

As far I'm concerned, Heitinga is a vital member of the squad. And remember, Distin is getting no younger... is he?

I think the Lescott loan rumour has legs and if that happens Heitinga will be gone. Jageilka/Lescott was always Moyes's preferred choice so no surprise if that materialises. That would be a short term fix though as we don't have the cash to bring him back for longer. Distin will give us maybe one more year so it's a risky move to sell Heitinga. We can't afford to be paying his massive wages though for him to be sat on the bench.

Duffy's problem is his distribution - its awful . In a few friendly games he played at the beginning of the season his strength in the air and floor wasn't questioned, but he on a number of occasions made terrible passes out from the defence - which at Premiership level would be end up with a goal attempt against us.

You cant question his attitude, his committment, his drive but until he learns to play the right ball accurately I don't think Moyes will ever play him at the highest level.

With respect to Lescott coming back for longer James, I think that it may appear impossible because of his 1) transfer fee and 2) wages. But, I think the Spurs deal with Adebayor could provide a potential model. Spurs got a 1 in 2 averaging established Prem goal scorer for 5million, and one of the most notoriously financially motivated players in football accepted a wage cut...because it appears that City part funded his departure. Given the Adebayor deal, and that Lescott is currently behind Kolo Toure in the City pecking order, and his age, I don't expect we would need to find more than 3million to bring him back. If we got 5million for Heitinga, which given his reputation and his performance last season, is by no means impossible, I think it could be a possibility...especially if we manage to qualify for Champions League Football. If he does come in January, im certain it will be on loan...but there may be the means to bring him here permanently if another team doesn't come in. Wishful thinking I know...but I really like the idea of a returning Lescott, so I am willing to think wishfully!

With around 18 months left on his contract we have no chance of getting anywhere near 7m for Heitinga and with every transfer window that goes by you can chop more off his intended fee - IMO we will be lucky to get 4m and then that would have to be an EPL team.

Personally I hope he does go to help raise money for Moyes, additionally I hope that moody twat Anichebe joins him. Both of them should raise some money that Moyes will should be able to twist and turn into a new CF and attacking midfielder.

James - You critique Duffy's distribution but to be be honest whenever Jagielka has the ball at his feet, does that look up and hoofs the ball aimlessly, I cringe knowing that it is going to come right back to us.

Sorry - I meant Mike not James

We currently have 4 CBs and Moyes only ever plays 2 so if we need cash then its a no brainer to sell one of them - i.e. Heitinga. Given Moyes' reluctance to play JH I am still surprised the guy is still at Everton tbh. I thought he would have thrown his toys out of the pram by now and buggered off, especially given that it cannot be doing his international carrier any good to be warming our bench.

We should sell Jonny and use the cash to bring in a proper CM to either play with Gibson or at least provide excellent cover for him. In the mean time let Duffy be the 3rd choice CB and maybe bring in a short term experenced CB just to provide cover until the end of the season. In the summer we could then look to try and sign a proper CB to replace Distin.

Bringing Lescott back, whilst nice on the face of it, will just cost too much. The guys on 80-90k a week! Even if City paid off some of his contract we would still be faced with having to pay him around 50-60k a week - not sure this is worth it given he's already in his 30s. Nevermind the transfer fee....

At the very least the value of JH goes down with every month, put the guy out of his misery and lets just cash in on him before he's worth f'all.

I think the major reason Moyesie keeps JH around is because his "flexibility" in field positions. I like JH as I think he's a hardnosed old-school player who put in the tackles when needed and lets attackers know there's is someone defending (ie, frequent yellow card challenges). However, as most folks have pointed out, he's lost his fitness a bit it would seem since last season.

More often than not, we've seen him come on to "sure up" the back line in an advanced stopper role. I believe this to be where we should be playing him as he does not have the pace of Distin or Jags.

In fact I can remember another midfield enforcer from our not-so-distant past by the name of Lee Carsley; I loved his style and often think that Neville modeled his current aged approach to his.

Bottom line is if we are going to hang on to JH we might just get something out of playing him in a role as I mentioned along side or just slightly behind Gibbo so that Gibbo might move forward as a sit in behind the forward two. That would make for a formidable central mid field and most likely force most attacking play against us around the wings. This may be something I hope Moyesie considers during the Holiday period with out Felli.

I've just had the car serviced plus new tyres. I'll drive him there myself.

It was only about 6 weeks ago Heitinga said it's a possibility he will sign a new contract. The only way I think he will leave is if Lescott does come back.

If the Lescott deal (rumour) is a nonstarter then EFC don't really have a choice but to offer him a new contract or, as said above, his value will tumble down and next summer he will be worth £2M or £3M max.

On the other hand, it's always the second half of the season where Heitinga comes in to form. Each of his current 3 seasons he has been excellent from January onwards.

I have never read of an enquiry for Heitinga and don't remember any other club showing interest in him before he came to us either. The same could be said about Bily when we first bought him.
Whenever there is competition for a player we drop out of the bidding. Moving Rodders to Chelsea was great business and buying Mirallas and Jelavic may well prove worthwhile.

I like what I have seen of Mirallas and Im sure he will score goals too, so long as he remains fit. I want to see him play a dozen games and show his true worth before passing judgement.

Belgium looks a good country to get recruits from as all seem to do well in the Premier League.

I'm with Sam on this one - Johnny, as much as I admired him last season is now a luxury we cannot afford and Moyes should cash in while there is still value there.

Not sure I know what Denis R means by 'given that it cannot be doing his international carrier any good to be warming our bench'!!

Something akin to a golf caddy perhaps?

I'm with Sam on this one - Johnny, as much as I admired him last season is now a luxury we cannot afford and Moyes should cash in while there is still value there.

Not sure I know what Denis R means by 'given that it cannot be doing his international carrier any good to be warming our bench'!!

Something akin to a golf caddy perhaps?

'Moving Rodders to Chelsea was great business '

Christ I'm starting to lose it!!

Double posts - International Carriers - Rodders to Chelsea !!! FMP

A £7m enquiry from the Turks translates as £2m in real cash. Let's not get sucked in twice.

http://hereisthecity.com/2012/12/19/ld-five-facts-about-vadis-odjidja-ofoe-evertons-imminent-new-sig/

Lets just hope is only Johnny to fund this....

No more Center Halvs. It would become something like Kendels fetish on right backs!

Rodders has really improved Chelsea's midfield.... what with him being in Man City's reserves!!!

On that issue alone, I liked Rodwell though I agree it was good business to sell when we did. But has anyone seen or heard anything of him since September?? He never even makes the bench!! He's an example of young English talent going to waste languishing as 4th or 5th choice at a club with too much money at its disposal.

As for Heitinga, I'd sell tomorrow. Nowhere near as good as he thinks he is. However, one of the few players we might get decent money for... and not miss.

Rodwell did his hamstring again for England U21s. Not a good sign for a young player with that injury problem a couple of times for us already.

Sell Heitinga as he really isn't finding his form this season. Replace him with Forren as he looks like an able replacement and bring in Ofoe as he looks like an all round midfielder!

I am a big fan of Johnny H.

However, Jags's form is great and while I consider Johnny to be miles better than Distin alas he is not left-footed, so if selling him meant we could get Lescott back then I would cycle him to Amsterdam with a big flag fluttering from the back of my stabilisers. (I can't stand bikes – but I really do want Roger back!)

I would flog Heitinga and the earliest opportunity. Complete fraud of a defender and people have been suckered in to liking him due to his cult figure self-made status and his clapping of the fans at the end of every game, no matter how he has played.

I will never forgive him for bottling a couple of tackles a few seasons back that cost us points. For a so-called tough hard defender it was scandalous.

If we can get anything around what we paid for him, I would 100% take it and go re-invest in a younger, hungrier centre half... preferably an Eastern European no-nonsense stopper in the mould of Skirtel.

Heitinga is an average centre half, poor right back and an even worse defensive midfielder. Good riddance as far as I am concerned. He was good on Championship Manager as a 16-year-old though!!!

When did City sell Rodders to Chelsea and how much for??? I must've missed that one...

If Heitinga wants to stay, we should re-sign him. Getting Lescott back would be the wrong move. Distin can't play too much longer, and then we'll have Jags and Duffy. While I think Jags has improved, he doesn't fill me with a lot of confidence that he could work with Duffy the way Johnny did last season (or was it the season before?).

Heitinga's form has been poor this season compared to last season, but I honestly think it's a head thing rather than an ability thing. After winning our player of the season award, Moyes should have noticed that what Johnny needs to succeed is recognition - something Jags has done well without his entire career. He should have been given the captaincy, or at least the vice-captaincy for his efforts. I think if that had happened, he would be one of the better centre-backs in the league at this point of the season.

Neville is a leader regardless of what is on his sleeve, and has now been out for enough time that he shouldn't stroll back into the 11 when he's fit (although I'm smart enough to know that he will). For that, giving the armband to Heitinga could have proven a master stroke.

Instead, we have a player who started for one of the best teams in the world in the the biggest game of the football calender warming the bench. To top it off, he went from being one of our best players last season, to warming the bench as soon as the gaffer's two favourites were fit enough to assume the position again.

I said it on another thread the other day - if we sell Johnny to another club, he will win trophies.

Sell by all means, but hope the money is used on a new keeper!

Everything is relative - and relative to a world-cup finalist centre-back Heitinga has been awful this year - and today.

OK if Duffy performe dthe same we wouldn't criticise, as he is starting up.

Move Heitinga on - he isn't fit to clean Distin or Jag's boots.

Heitinga is rightly our third choice centre back. He played well last year but I still think he's not quick or physical enough for the Premier League.

He is required for the busy Xmas period but from there on we should be able to cope with someone on lower wages, prepared to sit on the bench a bit more often.

Perhaps we can give the margin to Moyes either to deal or add to his own already lucrative salary.

I think yesterday's performance only goes to confirm that Heitinga's time is up. He was shown up against Norwich and yesterday. As comfortable on the ball as he is he is not up to the physical challenge.

Jags was completely wasted in both games he has played at right back. We tried him out there when he arrived from Sheff Utd and he was wasted, nothing has changed.

Duffy should now become automatic third choice centre half. JH should be thanked and sent on his way.

I predict we sell Heitinga and buy Forren. And have a couple of mill left over for loans or whatnot...

Mike @ 67 – big fan of Heitinga. You support him then, but he's not fit to clean Distin's boots even though he's many years younger. Not a trier – let him go. He's cost us so much this year and is the only centre-back I can remember Moyes (or pretty much any manager) substituting at half-time with no injury.